mudcat.org: singaround etiquette
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3]


singaround etiquette

Related threads:
Concert Etiquette (70)
Criticism at singarounds (493)
why do singers take so long to start? (174)
Folk Club / Session Etiquette (227)
Performers' showcase etiquette (7)
Session etiquette solutions please (57)
'Rules' for group singing (5)
Band Etiquette Question - Am I a prat? (69)
Singaround etiquette (64)
Singaround Etiquette (18)
Singaround etiquette ? (70)
Impromptu open mike etiquette (6)
Weird open mike etiquette (85)
Hoot Etiquette (76)
Jam Etiquette (49)
Rules of the Session (20)
Talking and other session etiquette (37)
Session Etiquette (24)
Festival workshop etiquette question (12)
Music Etiquette Thought For The Day (33)
Song Circle Etiquette for Dummies (74)
Etiquette question #2 (44)
Etiquette question (106)
Music etiquette: the answer (19)
Etiquette for slow-jams (6)


Big Al Whittle 05 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM
Andy7 05 Jan 19 - 07:55 AM
Big Al Whittle 05 Jan 19 - 07:48 AM
Big Al Whittle 05 Jan 19 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,akenaton 05 Jan 19 - 07:00 AM
GUEST,akenaton 05 Jan 19 - 06:53 AM
GUEST,akenaton 05 Jan 19 - 06:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 05 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM
GUEST 05 Jan 19 - 05:43 AM
Acorn4 04 Jan 19 - 03:36 AM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 03 Jan 19 - 06:23 PM
GUEST 03 Jan 19 - 12:32 PM
Ged Fox 03 Jan 19 - 11:39 AM
GUEST 03 Jan 19 - 09:42 AM
Tattie Bogle 03 Jan 19 - 09:16 AM
Steve Gardham 02 Jan 19 - 05:57 PM
GUEST 02 Jan 19 - 05:32 PM
Acorn4 02 Jan 19 - 05:25 PM
Joe Offer 02 Jan 19 - 05:10 PM
GUEST,akenaton 02 Jan 19 - 04:43 PM
Joe Offer 02 Jan 19 - 03:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jan 19 - 08:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Jan 19 - 08:23 AM
Vic Smith 02 Jan 19 - 07:43 AM
GUEST,Andy7 02 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 02 Jan 19 - 05:48 AM
GUEST,Peter 02 Jan 19 - 02:37 AM
Tattie Bogle 01 Jan 19 - 04:19 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Jan 19 - 03:12 PM
Tattie Bogle 01 Jan 19 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Peter 01 Jan 19 - 06:33 AM
Andy7 01 Jan 19 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 01 Jan 19 - 04:26 AM
Jack Campin 31 Dec 18 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,QCT ALL 31 Dec 18 - 09:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 31 Dec 18 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,Observer 31 Dec 18 - 02:07 AM
Big Al Whittle 30 Dec 18 - 08:21 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 30 Dec 18 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,Observer 30 Dec 18 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 29 Dec 18 - 07:15 PM
Tattie Bogle 29 Dec 18 - 12:37 PM
Jack Campin 29 Dec 18 - 07:23 AM
G-Force 29 Dec 18 - 06:09 AM
GUEST,ST 29 Dec 18 - 04:25 AM
Andy7 28 Dec 18 - 06:42 PM
GUEST 28 Dec 18 - 05:52 PM
Acorn4 28 Dec 18 - 04:48 PM
Jack Campin 28 Dec 18 - 02:37 PM
beachcomber 28 Dec 18 - 02:19 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:








Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 11:06 AM

no its not! agreed! we all have to start somewhere.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Andy7
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 07:55 AM

It makes me weep, the number of people these days that say, "I cant sing." Just because they can't sing as well as the best popular singers; which in any case is a very narrow version of good singing.

The ubiquitous habit of people covering their ears and exaggeratedly grimacing, if someone in their family or social circle does start to sing in public, certainly doesn't help!

(The same is true of dancing! But that's another topic entirely.)

So in a singaround, which actually appears, by its very name, to encourage everyone to sing, the least we can do is welcome, and try to appreciate, singers that are new/nervous/just not very good.

I was not very good myself, once. And if I'd had any inkling, at that stage, that the other people in a singaround were pulling faces, grinning to each other or looking bored, I'd probably never have gone back.

If the price to be paid is that we occasionally have to sit through a song that isn't sung very well, that's not so very high a price at all!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 07:48 AM

PS nice to talk to you again Ake!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 07:46 AM

Guilty as charged, Ake. But I needed to make a living. I knew how to play the guitar. The hours fitted in with me being a carer. Yes my level of competency was deeply resented by the folkerati, but on the other hand, the room seemed and still does seem to light up in anticipation when I walk into a folk club. That's a less and less frequent occurrence, as the great unplugged/acoustic music revival goes on apace.

Doubtless, if I hadn't been desperately in need of the NHS for the care of my wife, I would have decamped to another nation - like most of my contemporaries who couldn't stomach the trad folk agenda - with all its inconsistencies and craziness.

But to be honest, I think the English folk clubs really missed out. It failed to adapt. The kids who had a lot to offer were working class grammar school types - and so many of them ended up playing in Irish bars from St Petersburg, and Oslo to the gulf.

The idea that folk music was something that belonged to tiny communities preferably pre-industrial belongs to that era where Vaughan Williams and Percy Grainger were morris dancing in the garden.

Our generation saw it as a valid artistic movement that offered the possibility of self expression.

Still we'll all be dead soon and it won't matter that we lost the battle and the war. Worse things happened.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 07:00 AM

I suppose the real villains are those who commercialised music, turning it from a gift to humanity into simply another commodity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 06:53 AM

I also think that the role of the performer is changing, in my youth any contribution to the entertainment of the gathering was appreciated, singers and musicians were respected, regardless of competency.....we are becoming spoiled insensitive brats.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 06:46 AM

I rather agree with Acorn......"background music" is a distraction and extremely annoying. Apparently every documentary and a lot of news articles on TV, require intrusive music played over the commentary. slightly different from the point Joe is making but new parameters are being set and concentration broken.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM

'
People often act like it's a terrible thing to threaten another person. But sometimes, threats are necessary. '

Yes we heard about the business with the hand grenade. Whilst I agree that the Childe ballads deserve a measure of respect, in this country we need folk clubs to be covered by the pub's insurance.

At our local folk club, the committee felt that whilst loosening the pin on the grenade, and shouting, 'Belt up you motherf.....rs!' carried risks.
We have taken a leaf from Jim Carrol's memories of The Singers Club of yore. The committee sit at a table in front, with an uzi on the table strictly only to be used if anyone disagrees with us.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 19 - 05:43 AM

People talking?
It depends where you are. If the singaround / session is in a dedicated room then they should shut the f*** up when somebody is singing. If it is in a public bar then you put up with it, they came to talk to their mates and have a perfect right to do so.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Jan 19 - 03:36 AM

On the subject of the dreaded phones:-

Three Minute Limit


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 06:23 PM

Unfortunately , it seems many musicians don't listen to other contributors , and either talk or look at their phones, even in a small circle. I tend to shrug and carry on if I can see anyone listening , but when it comes to open mics I tend to just not go to the worst ones much . Thankfully , at the sing around there are usually some that respect each other !


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 12:32 PM

I suppose we will never know.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Ged Fox
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 11:39 AM

It would have been more effective to have stopped the guitar and continued singing.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 09:42 AM

In my I suppose limited experience, trying to outloud people tends not to work for me. Turning my own volume down and singing more and more quietly sometimes works, but sometimes it doesn't. One time I was at a session and the other players were shouting loudly at each other while I was singing. I ended up playing the guitar and mouthing the words silently for about half the song. So my approach was pretty ineffective in that instance. But yeah, sometimes people do shut up.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Jan 19 - 09:16 AM

A similar thing happened in a recent pub session (in a pub that is known as a "folk club". 2 very loud young ladies were screaming with laughter at something on their phones while our singer was barely heard. He stopped singing, turned to them and said, "I'll start again when you two have finished". It worked a treat! No fights or hard feelings.
The same singer - in another session- also told the person next to him to stop flicking loudly through his massive song folder "I'll carry on when you stop that".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 05:57 PM

Joe,
You simply stop singing, presuming most others are listening, and if anyone asks why you simply say 'The conversation seemed to be more important so I stopped.' If that doesn't get the message across nothing else will, other than talking loudly while she is singing, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 05:32 PM

Just had time to read the whole thread, Guest Observer is no "Bambi" in any sense of the word.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Acorn4
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 05:25 PM

I think the whole notion of "background music" to which we've become conditioned has a lot to do with this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 05:10 PM

Well, as usual, my sainted wife had a pretty good alternative to my inclinations. She said I should say something like, "You have a beautiful voice. Can you sing with us?"
Don't know if I could bring myself to do that. This woman does NOT have a beautiful voice, and she finds ways to sing twice as often as everybody else does. And she thinks she knows lots of songs, but often flubs both the lyrics and the melodies.
I get to be catty sometimes, Ake, but only when I'm attacked....
-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 04:43 PM

Surely this is not the Joe we know and love???
Seriously, this lack of common courtesy is getting pretty widespread.
Even in normal conversation people are continually trying to "talk over" one another, but it is especially discourteous when one is being favoured with a song.
I even see it on these threads, when people jump at other members without appearing to have read their contributions.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 03:28 PM

Any advice on how to handle people who talk while others are trying to sing? I was trying to sing a quiet, sweet song as New Year's Eve waned, but there was a woman talking quite loudly. I couldn't really hear myself, so I sang a little louder. And each time I raised my volume, she raised hers even more.

Now that it's over, I keep thinking of things I should have done. Maybe I should have stopped in the middle of the song and said, "@#$%, Shut Up!" But that would have spoiled the mood I was trying to create with the song. Of course, my straining to sing over her talking certainly did not enhance the song - so maybe I should have stopped and told her off. I also thought of making up a verse or two that would apply to her rudeness.

I finally handled the matter by sending the woman an email this morning. I described what she had done, without characterizing it or her as rude and all the other things I was thinking. This is not the first time this woman this woman has interfered with my singing. I tried to deal with her gently in the past because she has a very fragile ego, but now I've had it. I told her point-blank that if she ever interfered with my singing again, I would embarrass her publicly.

People often act like it's a terrible thing to threaten another person. But sometimes, threats are necessary. And it she ever interferes with my singing again, I will fulfill my threat.

-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 08:37 AM

I suppose in a way we all own songs!

If you sing Shoals of Herring in a German folk club, perhaps , perhaps....someone will shout, donner und bklitzen! Das ist mein sangen!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 08:23 AM

I remember Ian Campbell one time told me about a gig he did with Ewan in Germany somewhere.

Anyway (happens to us all) Ewan was singing shoals of herring, and half way through the second verse, Ewan's brain went into reverse and he couldn't remember the next line. Ian was at the back of the hall - so he couldn't help him.

Luckily all the German audience knew the song and sung it for him. Shoals of herring is a song I love. I've sung it a thousand times in my front room, never in public.

I don't think its anything to do with the passing of time. Some of us have always loved encountering a song, and we have to have a go at learning it and singing it. Sometimes its only after you've learned it over a matter of weeks you realise - its not a song you can do.

I spent weeks once learning Thorneymoor Park, a song that was part of Carthy and Tony Rose's repertoire at the time. A number of times though, I did the line....I took me knife and I cut the buck's thoat...however I did it - it sounded too horrible to be music.

Some of us are just like that. We hear a song we like and we have a go at it. That's folksong for me. What its been to me since I was a kid . I'm 70, this month.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 07:43 AM

Reading Jim Bainbridge's contribution above reminds me of a singaround that he was part of in the early 1970s. It was at one of those wonderful TMSA festivals at Kinross which has recently moved there from Blairgowrie.
Tina and I had been sensible enough to hire in advance one of the permanent caravans on the campsite for the weekend. After the late, late events in the pubs and hotels, things continued in the 4 or 5 big caravans that were at the top of the campsite. We had invited quite a few friends and, of course, Jim was among them but many more than that squeezed in. Even before it began, industrial amounts of alcohol had been consumed. Where I was sitting, I was unable to move my feet because the space was taken by Dave Goulder who was peacefully 'resting his eyes' still clutching a half empty bottle of a single malt to his chest.
Belle Stewart turned up and could barely squeeze inside the door. Before she gave us her song she said, "Of course. Alex and me have got a big posh room at the Kirklands Hotel, but we jist thocht we'd com' an' see hoo a' you puir travellers are managing camped oot in a' weathers!"
Aly Bain could not get in but he leaned his fiddle inside one of the open windows and gave us a tune.
John Watt had appointed himself as compere and even through very bleary eyes, he was doing a very good job, He was sitting next to Alex Mackie and had asked Alex to sing. Alex was singing Bonnie Gateshead Lass - starting at a normal pace, he gradually sung slower and slower before passing out before he reached the end of the song. John gave him a few pokes, but failed to revive him. "Ach weel, Ah want ye's a' tae be here at 10.30 in the mornin' tae hear Alex finish his sang. Noo, we'll hae a sang frae Cathal."
Eventually the singaround broke up not long before dawn. We managed to revive Dave and a few other sleepers and made a sustained effort to get Alex removed. This was particularly important because at that time, Alex was the World and European Heavy Snoring Champion.

We have been to hundreds of informal singarounds at folk festivals since those days, but somehow these more recent ones lack the human interest that the ones at those early TMSA festivals offered.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Andy7
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 06:27 AM

I completely agree that, in a singaround, songs should not be considered ‘owned’ by anyone, apart from their own compositions.

However, there is an element of courtesy, when a member has a very small repertoire. To take it to the extreme, if you knew that the only song a particular member could sing was, say, ‘Scarborough Fair’, and your turn came before theirs, you’d hardly be likely to sing it. More realistically, some singers, especially newcomers, do only know a handful of songs, and if 2 or 3 of those were sung by other members, who were aware of this, in the same evening, it would seem rather inconsiderate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 05:48 AM

Why does all this stuff cause such acrimony?- maybe it's indicitave of a deeper change?
in my early days on the folk scene, humour was an important part of any 'folk' gathering- clubs rather than singarounds in those days. It's all become a lot more serious and self-c0nscious, which IMHO is not a good thing.

Re 'possession' of songs, 30 years ago, I was asked to play my gadget at a Sunday night singing session which had run for many years. These were older people and it was of an earlier kind- mainly older local people & my function was to fill the gaps with a song or a tune. This was in the Sibin pub, near Baltimore in West Cork, in the early 90s.

There were many singers, and it struck me how each one had his or her own songs & no-one would dream of singing someone else's song! The changenowadays is that these folks were NEIGHBOURS, who knew each other and their songs and that has now changed, in Ireland too, the excellent Sligo singers circle has a few locals, but many singers there travel many miles to it.

Re the humour aspect, some the Baltimore singers often sang the same
comic song almost week after week, with the same comic punchline- everybody laughed every time!

In the sixties, at the Marsden Inn club in South Shields, the excellent MC Jim Irvine sang a song & minutes afterwards Frank O'Neill, fine singer & joke teller, a few minutes late, came in the door & sang the same song. Nobody groaned, there was a rising giggle resulting in a hilarious torrent of laughing.
Frank didn't know what was going on- it wasn't a funny song, but slowly realised & concluded by laughing louder than anyone.

   Would it happen like that today or do we take ourselves far too seriously?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 02 Jan 19 - 02:37 AM

Indeed, in my post both people concerned had, at different times, been regarded by the session as the "the person who sung that song" or, to put it another way the "owner".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 04:19 PM

Very true; but I was just talking about what happens in sessions, not the big bad commercial world outside, and how some people do seem to think that certain songs are "theirs" and not to be sung by others who may stumble upon their session.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 03:12 PM

writing a song doesn't have too much to do with ownership.

once someone senses there is money to be made out of it, people who are paying for the recording and marketing, demand the right to make a version that will shift units.

Then when it is in the public arena - the public sing it anywhere, anyhow, with whatever changes to the words and tune they want. There are exceptions -if you're a millionaire like the bloke from Oasis, you can take out an injunction and stop The Smurfs from recording your song. But even Noel can't change a million pub singers butchering his 'possession', smart arse parodist who couldn't create anything as long as they had a hole in their arse writing 'alternative' funny words. Politicians, football crowds or male voice choirs, ladies barbershop quartets, or Quentin Tarantino putting it in a film about people being disemboweklled. Ten to one, Paul MacCartney never thought his songs would be used as the soundtrack for public executions in Africa - but they were.

You write your song and it totters out into the world. That's it. Gone! No longer yours mate!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 11:12 AM

No-one can own a song (unless they wrote it themselves): but I can think of a few people who would be quite miffed and give you the "daggers" look if you sang "their" song.

All of which ties in well with what others were saying on your other thread, Andy7, about not going for songs that are too well-known/often sung or you may risk someone's nasal disjointedness - "oh, so-and-so ALWAYS does that one" - er, well not this time!

In this area it gets a bit hilarious around Burns time, when everyone is going to sing a Burns song at the session in the week of Jan 25th, and nobody knows who is going to sing what next: song-sheets and books go flying through the air as serially they are discarded when someone does the song you had planned to do and even your 2nd/3rd/4th reserve!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 06:33 AM

Andy's post reminds me of an incident at a singers club many years ago now. A former resident was back in the area visiting family and performed her "party piece".

Once of the current residents, who hadn't known her before she moved away, also had the song in her repertoire. She had been to the bar and was standing outside the room incandessant about "her" song being sung.

Actually both parrotted the same version by Martin Carthy note for note.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Andy7
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 06:21 AM

One St. David's Day, I sang 'Ar Hyd Y Nos' in Welsh at a singaround. Not actually speaking or understanding any Welsh at all, I'd painstakingly learned it line by line, listening to and trying to parrot a variety of Welsh singers on the internet. (It kind of surprised me, although it really shouldn't have, that of course no two Welsh singers pronounce the words identically!)

It then turned out I'd 'stolen' the opportunity from a genuine Welsh singer, who'd also been planning to perform the song, but whose turn came after mine in the singaround.

That's not really bad etiquette, just bad luck; but it would be good if there was some way to avoid such a faux pas!

Blwyddyn Newydd Dda i bawb yn Mudcat!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 01 Jan 19 - 04:26 AM

Blimey I know I'm fat, but Godzilla! I've far too ugly to be Bambi! But then so was the landlord! Happy New Year Jack.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 07:39 PM

Not so much for singarounds, but on guest nights when you have a performer who likes to splat hecklers like bugs as part of their act, you oughta encourage people to give them straight lines.

"observer" vs Nick Dow has the same sort of Bambi-meets-Godzilla entertainment value.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,QCT ALL
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 09:37 AM

Andy 7- you sound pretty courteous and with common sense and I don't want a disagreement either but I don't see much evidence of either virtue in the various scurrilous tales in this thread in the interim!
So it may be that 'notes for the aspiring folkie' ARE necessary?
   Your observing before rushing in is apparently your way of approaching new experiences & laudable in many ways...
   BUT- I don't accept you need to worry about what to do/say AT ALL-, there are strong and intolerant knowalls on the scene who KNOW what's correct and you really do not need to be guided by this.

Singing a Fenian song in Portadown is obviously a bad idea (for the sake of your health) but if people sneer at you singing 'Kumbaya' or the 'Wild Rover' and if Cyril Tawney can finish a folk club night with 'She wears Red Feathers' then so can you- I bet they didn't sneer at him!
Seems you've been around a while now, as have I - maybe you're just a bit less cynical than me!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 03:06 AM

I am pretty sure by the writing style and belligerent attitude that the "observer" is an ex member who has been banned from posting below the line for just such nonsense, Nick. Just not worth even responding too.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 31 Dec 18 - 02:07 AM

Delighted Nick, now that I know that your little tale was basically a crock and should not have been taken seriously, which begs the question why you felt compelled to mention it - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread.

By the way as to who thought they were being intimidated:

1. Who ended up "effing" and "blinding"? - You by your own telling of the story.

2. In describing the end of the exchange it was you yourself who wrote this - "Landlord looks like a mongoose viewing a snake but decides he had better back down on the grounds that he is about 5ft 6' and I am 6ft 2' and from South London." - It is perfectly clear who you thought was doing the intimidating.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 08:21 PM

I don't think you can legislate folk clubs. either they're all right or not. Some work in shitty places with awful residents and horrendous landlords. Some of the dearest sweetest people have failed to get an audience, and the landlord has been the soul of generosity. free food. free raffle prizes.

theres no working it out,   or calling it. in my experience.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 07:14 PM

The landlord was 'retired' having abused a woman of pensionable age in the car park. He was so objectionable he had numerous bad reviews on line and the brewery took a dim view. He was replaced by a very nice younger couple who incidentally had no problem in serving me a pint of tap water. I came back into the pub to buy a meal with my wife on the strength of it. The landlord was attempting to intimidate ME you muffin, and if you don't know what coming from South London has to do with being intimidated soft lad I suggest you lie down and take a reality pill. Meanwhile try and put your brain in gear before posting. The story was not exactly supposed to be taken that seriously. This should now be an end to the matter on this thread, and all pigs are fuelled up and ready to fly. It's not fair for the other contributors of this thread if it goes off into a slanging match. So here you are my myopic observer you've got the last word. Happy now?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 30 Dec 18 - 06:52 PM

Re: Nick Dow's story.

My sympathy is entirely with the Landlord (Now an ex-Landlord we are told, who by inference, lost his livelihood because Nick's warm and welcoming crowd moved to another Pub - My guess is if all they are drinking is tap water they'll have to move on from there as well in the not too distant future) - The man has a living to make FFS, any decent human being who knows anything about "pub culture" should know that and appreciate the problem from the Landlords perspective. He is the one doing you a favour for letting you play/sing in HIS Pub.

Liked this though (which, to me, speaks volumes about our story teller):

"Landlord looks like a mongoose viewing a snake but decides he had better back down on the grounds that he is about 5ft 6' and I am 6ft 2' and from South London."

You have probably only ever seen a mongoose fight a snake on telly Nick - Out in the Far East they used to put such contests on as a bar sport with bets on the outcome. The mongoose's contestant was normally a Cobra - The snake NEVER WON.

Don't know what coming from South London has got to do with anything. Always a bad move to attempt to intimidate a Landlord (irrespective of relative heights involved) on his own premises - there are stories of people who have been banned from entering licensed premises in entire towns for doing just that.

Care to tell us when your next free concert is on? Will the tap water be free?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 07:15 PM

Got to tell you this story. The singaround was friendly and welcoming, the Landlord of the pub was a different matter. He is now an Ex Landlord.

Nick...(entering the pub) 'Can I have a pint of Water please.'

Landlord....'I'm not letting you sit here just drinking water.'

Nick …. 'Well I was going to offer to put some money in the charity box.'

Landlord...(aggressively) 'Well that doesn't put money in our till.'

Nick... 'Fair enough, I don't mind paying for it.'

Landlord...'You can buy bottles of water.'

Nick... 'I would prefer tap water.'

Landlord.... 'I told you...

Nick....'Alright alright, a bottle of water then.'

Landlord.. (Accusingly and with a sneer) You (pointing) do concerts don't you.

Nick...'Yes.'

Landlord 'Do you do them for nothing?'

Nick (getting pissed off) 'Yes I do as it happens.'

Landlord (Taken aback) 'Well...er...We do a lot for charity too.'

Nick...'It f***ing sounds like it.'

Landlord looks like a mongoose viewing a snake but decides he had better back down on the grounds that he is about 5ft 6' and I am 6ft 2' and from South London.
I took my bottle of water joined the singaround, and made it last all night. The singaround moved pub. I can't think why!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 12:37 PM

Newcomer to our session, though already known by some from elsewhere: argumentative and disruptive, after another singer introduces a song with a couple of words re the origin of the song.
New man shouts, "Where's your evidence?" not once but several times.
Towards the end (no, he hadn't been thrown out yet!) we chose an "all join in" song as a finisher.
"It's in D" says new man.
"Too high for the ladies" sez I.
"No, it's in D".
I played the first 3 notes in C on my button accordion.
"You're playing it in D" sez he.
"No I'm not" sez I.
"Yes you are" sez he.
"No I'm not"............... (FFS, I DO know what notes I'm playing, thinks I!)
Sorry, you're not welcome back new man!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 07:23 AM

Use of aide-memoires is intended to satisfy another requirement of etiquette: don't be repetitive. People who perform only from memory often have tiny repertoires and run out of willing listeners VERY fast. If you use a memory aid can keep it fresh, even playing weekly in the same venue.

This is largely a consequence of the mass media. The recording industry and its successors like Internet broadcasting can keep a supply of new material flowing far faster than anyone can listen to it, even within a single narrow genre. So if you're trying to do the same sort of thing in live performance, you have massive competition that wasn't there a lifetime ago. Nobody could memorize enough songs to compete with Tobar an Dualchais, let alone Sony or Spotify. To have even a shred of credibility as an entertainer, particularly when you also have a day job, you need that iPhone or you'll be boring.

I thought Walter Benjamin might have had something to say about this, so I just flipped through "The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction". He doesn't - he seems to assume that mass-produced art will just supersede the hand-made kind wherever they come in contact. Folkies just assume he was wrong without thinking about it. It might be helpful if they thought a bit more carefully about what our enterprise is trying to do in the present age.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: G-Force
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 06:09 AM

I've just opened this thread (I know it's been going a long time) but please may I repeat the fact that older people, and that includes me, have a lot more trouble remembering the words than years ago. I hope I am still a good singer, and I do make large efforts to learn words, but I simply cannot rely entirely on memory, even for songs I know well.   Far better to have that sheet of paper handy and produce a good performance. I'm not suggesting for one minute that you rely on it entirely and certainly no mobiles (ghastly). One tip I've found useful is to keep a finger on the verse you're singing so you've got instant access to the next line if needed without slavishly reading the words. After all, you need to keep an eye on the audience to make sure they're listening! So guys, please, let's have a little tolerance for us old folkies!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST,ST
Date: 29 Dec 18 - 04:25 AM

"it took me quite some time - then, and afterwards at other events - of staying quiet, observing, listening, and watching for hints." (Andy7)

What's wrong with that? That's always been my preferred practice. A bit like the sheets of paper (and now electronics), it seems that everyone today wants a shortcut instead of being prepared to take the time to learn something properly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Andy7
Date: 28 Dec 18 - 06:42 PM

I really don't this to become any kind of argument between me and thee, 'Guest'; I have no particular axe to grind here!

But my point is valid. Yes, courtesy and common sense are important, as I've already said. And I have plenty of both.

But they were not enough, at my first ever weekend folk event, for me to understand exactly how things were, and what I should or shouldn't do/say/sing.

I'd never experienced such an occasion before; and it took me quite some time - then, and afterwards at other events - of staying quiet, observing, listening, and watching for hints.

In those days, I'd have so welcomed some detailed guidance such as that offered by Joe! (No pun intended just there!)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 18 - 05:52 PM

Andy 7- am not convinced about there being ANY more to it than courtesy & common sense- if you don't have those in any context, never mind justsingarounds, you won't get far!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Acorn4
Date: 28 Dec 18 - 04:48 PM

A few years back I witnessed someone doing a sea shanty from a mobile phone down load.

They lost the signal half way through the second verse.

"Ang on lads, can't haul away for the moment - no signal!"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Dec 18 - 02:37 PM

Let's not go there. There are reasons, and not all of them are bad ones.

One thing that is fortunately rather rare in sessions and singarounds, virtually unknown in Scotland: racist putdowns of other people's musical cultures. Doesn't often need pointing out, but it looks like the message hasn't got through quite loudly enough in Canada, to judge by Olive's message a couple of years upthread.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: singaround etiquette
From: beachcomber
Date: 28 Dec 18 - 02:19 PM

But how should one react to (Happening more and more frequently in "Sing song sessions" in my rural area of West Waterford, Ireland)the phenomenon of singers who refer during their performance to their iphones, for Lyrics and , in many cases, for just chords or even musical notation ???
It was the newer, younger, participants who introduced this a few years back but now, it has become the norm for even older people who "should know better !" (or should they ?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 January 5:45 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.