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BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?

Greg F. 29 Nov 15 - 10:45 AM
DMcG 29 Nov 15 - 10:47 AM
Greg F. 29 Nov 15 - 10:48 AM
Greg F. 29 Nov 15 - 10:50 AM
DMcG 29 Nov 15 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,# 29 Nov 15 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Grammar 29 Nov 15 - 11:18 AM
Mr Red 29 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,# 29 Nov 15 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,# 29 Nov 15 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,# 29 Nov 15 - 04:47 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 05:10 PM
DMcG 29 Nov 15 - 05:30 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 05:42 PM
DMcG 29 Nov 15 - 06:03 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 06:18 PM
DMcG 29 Nov 15 - 06:32 PM
DMcG 29 Nov 15 - 06:52 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 06:53 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 07:01 PM
GUEST,# 29 Nov 15 - 07:11 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 07:27 PM
EBarnacle 29 Nov 15 - 07:42 PM
Steve Shaw 29 Nov 15 - 08:20 PM
GUEST,# 29 Nov 15 - 08:22 PM
GUEST,John Scarlett 29 Nov 15 - 08:39 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Nov 15 - 10:19 PM
Joe Offer 30 Nov 15 - 12:04 AM
Ebbie 30 Nov 15 - 02:22 AM
GUEST,Musket 30 Nov 15 - 03:05 AM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 30 Nov 15 - 04:16 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Nov 15 - 05:15 AM
GUEST,keith A 30 Nov 15 - 05:32 AM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Nov 15 - 05:49 AM
Greg F. 30 Nov 15 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,# 30 Nov 15 - 10:48 AM
Greg F. 30 Nov 15 - 11:08 AM
GUEST 30 Nov 15 - 12:28 PM
GUEST,DrWord 30 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 30 Nov 15 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,DrWord 30 Nov 15 - 07:11 PM
Greg F. 30 Nov 15 - 07:47 PM
Steve Shaw 30 Nov 15 - 08:11 PM
Joe Offer 01 Dec 15 - 01:58 AM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 01 Dec 15 - 02:27 AM
Richard Bridge 01 Dec 15 - 02:48 AM
GUEST,Musket 01 Dec 15 - 03:02 AM
Steve Shaw 01 Dec 15 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 01 Dec 15 - 06:38 AM
Richard Bridge 01 Dec 15 - 07:45 AM
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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:45 AM

So if you're acting alone to commit an act of terrorism, you're not a terrorist.

Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say.

that's not really a get-out, because you have made the association.

I'm not looking for a "get-out". Anyone with a modicum of knowledge of the past history of these kinds of terrorist attacks on Planned Parenthood and assassinations of physicians who perform abortions & eyc. by self-styled "Christians" PLUS the recent flood of vicious hate speech by Republican presidential candidates and their fellow GOP reptiles would find it impossible NOT to "make the association".


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:47 AM

Let me go further. There are people who picket these centres and harangue the women who go to them with the express intentions of making other women fearful to go to them. I have no qualms about saying that is terrorism, even if no actual violence takes place. And, if organised by a Christian group, then I'd willing call that Christian terrorism.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:48 AM

Correction:

Make that "...Republican presidential candidates and their fellow GOP reptiles WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS AND BRAG ABOUT SAME.."


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:50 AM

And, if organised by a Christian group

What in Clapton's name has "a group" got to do with it?

Again, So if you're acting alone to commit an act of terrorism, you're not a terrorist?

Ridiculous.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:55 AM

So if you're acting alone to commit an act of terrorism, you're not a terrorist.

Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say.


I will explain. In my view, which may not be everyone's I admit, an act of violence in isolation is not terrorism. The terrorism arises from the implication it can happen again. The Paris attack moves from a vicious act of violence by a few guys to terrorism because there is a group saying whatever you do to the guys doesn't matter: understand that every capital city, every small town, every isolated villages is also under threat. It is creating that dread that is the terrorism. And one guy acting alone who gets caught or killed can't do that.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 11:16 AM

Times have changed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman . Whitman wasn't once called a terrorist back then. He was called a killer. I think sometimes that our thoughts are formed based on the vocabularies we choose from.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Grammar
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 11:18 AM

Penultimate: check a dictionary Greg


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM

But at least they don't have firearms...

Hmmmm sort of! Cranks I might agree with you, except for the fact that it is not impossible to obtain various firearms legally, notably members of shooting clubs and shotguns. I was shocked to see a shop in Barton St Gloucester displaying guns for sail, including (automatic ?) pistols for about 150GBP, in the window. Hardly going to be dummies, might be air pistols but it didn't say so. There were air rifles too.
Barton St has a reputation!

Anyway there are those shockingly young kids guilty of killing, rare but far more shocking because of their lack of responsibility & indiscriminate shooting.

We may feel a bit safer, but there is no room for being smug.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 01:38 PM

Terrorist, n. Person with a gun solely distinguishable from another with a gun based on the intended use of the implement. A term popularized by President GW Bush to focus the gaze and attention of the electorate who then willingly funded a vague war on same, much to Richard 'Dick' Cheney's surprise.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 02:20 PM

Religious terrorist, compound n. Individual who ascribes his motives to an invisible entity, one to whom he often refers but never introduces in person.

Synonym, see the monograph entitled Recombinant DNA, Gene Splicing and the Social Fallout from Experiments Gone Wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 04:47 PM

An interesting article worth reading.

http://reverbpress.com/religion/abortion-rates-highest-among-christians-according-stunning-survey-results/


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 05:10 PM

Well that's hardly surprising, as just about every Catholic edict supports unwanted pregnancy. Ignorance, mysogyny, abstinence (ha bloody ha), no birth control, not even the withdrawal method. The Catholic Church is the champion of abortion, and their greatest flag-flyer, Mother Teresa, is about to be made a saint.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 05:30 PM

The survey took place in the US where most people declare themselves Christian anyway, so the simple raw percentages presented can be misleading. But my guess would be that there wouldn't be very much difference in the ratios across the various religions and none. because for most people the decisions are based on the circumstances they are in.

But please, can we avoid the same old arguments all over again? Let's stick to the Planned Parenthood crimes and it's implications without going over Mother Teresa and all that, having already done so more times than I care to remember.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 05:42 PM

OK, I half-promise not to mention her again. You can half-hold me to that. Unfortunately, what I say is true. Catholic teaching, which opposes good sex education, contraception and equality for women, and which, ridiculously, recommends abstinence, might just as well be saying that it positively encourages unwanted pregnancy. Thirty years ago, it was our club, yours and mine. I couldn't stomach that kind of illiberalism, etc., so I got out, but you're still in it. It's your club. Do something about it.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:03 PM

Your comments have been noted!

But earlier you will have noticed, I hope, that I consider even non-violent harassment of women attending these clinics to be terrorism. Violent harassment is a more severe form obviously, but as the intention is to induce fear of attending a clinic anywhere violent.or non-violent fit my definition.

Do.you agree, or do you think that is too strong a condemnation?


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:18 PM

I think that protests of any kind outside abortion clinics should be illegal. Terrorism is a word whose meaning has become degraded. Harassment, threatening behaviour and violent attacks by deranged individuals is not what I see as terrorism. Terrorism is a bit more organised than that. And it isn't freedom fighting either. If attacks on women at clinics is organised and planned in advance, then that could be a form of terrorism if violence is intended. Let's just decide what's right and what's wrong. But let's also accept that this thread is about abortion, whether you and the mods like it or not. It was an attack on an abortion clinic. It can either be discussed or not. That's up to the Mudcat powers that be. But, if discussion is allowed, we must be free to discuss where the root of the issue may lie. Sorry to say this, but Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular have a lot to answer for. The only way to make them not answer is to close the thread.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:32 PM

I agree terrorism is in some sense organised, so one clinic doesn't meet the criteria, any more than one shooter. But if there is some organisation coordinating protests or bussing protesters from one site to another that crosses the line for me. In truth I would prefer a different term: inculcating fear, for example. But none of the obvious alternatives - harassment, bullying and so on - seem strong enough to me.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:52 PM

Oh, and I agree the thread is about abortion, or more specifically the right to it and those who would deny that right. That's a big enough topic without worrying what the Pope does or doesn't say about condoms.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 06:53 PM

Like I said, let's decide what's right and what's wrong. We can wrangle all day about labels. I'm beginning to feel slightly cross with myself for half-promising to not mention Mother Teresa. Depending on circumstances, I may retract. There comes a time when we have to ask ourselves in all honesty what foments these incidents. Well, it's religion. If you disagree, then tell me what else. And, in the US of A, it's your religion, mainly. I don't know where this fellow got his ideas from. I do wonder what M**th*r T****a might have said had she still been around. Judging from her infamous speech in Ireland, and what she said about the victims of Bhopal, not to speak of her friendly dealings with the Duvaliers, I can't help thinking that this saintly woman might not exactly have been on the side of the clinic. As I said, it's your club, and your club is a massive part of the problem.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 07:01 PM

" That's a big enough topic without worrying what the Pope does or doesn't say about condoms."

Er, well, if the Pope were to enthusiastically recommend the use of condoms, etc. (as he should), not to speak of promoting good sex education (as he should), not to speak of promoting education on family planning (as he should), not to speak of promoting equality for women (as he should), not to speak of dropping the silly ideas about abstinence that militate against human nature (as he should), then this topic wouldn't be quite the big topic that it is now.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 07:11 PM

Greg, I thought you'd get a kick outta this article.

http://thegoodlordabove.com/articles/details/152


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 07:27 PM

That is totally brilliant, Guest#. It's almost not funny, if you see what I mean.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 07:42 PM

Going back a few posts, this thread is not about abortion. It IS about a person who may or may not be a Christian fundamentalist who decided to shoot up a medical clinic where some abortions are performed after having been incited by specious information from a Republican candidate for President of the US.

Wasn't it Oliver Wendell Holmes who said that freedom of speech does not include the right to yell "fire" in a crowded theater? How does that differ from inciting violence as part of a political campaign? Perhaps Carly Fiorino and Donald Trump should be hauled in and charged for inciting their followers to commit violent acts. Wouldn't that make an interesting kettle of fish?


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 08:20 PM

Er, it's about a man who shot up an abortion clinic for deranged ideological motives. Motives which may be explored properly only if religion is brought into consideration. I know it's uncomfortable. But it really is about abortion.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 08:22 PM

"It's almost not funny, if you see what I mean."

Oh, yeah. Steve, if you followed what Republicans say--trust me, it's not worth your time--you would despair for all of the USA. The Tea Party Republicans are certifiable. No kidding. As EBarnacle said, "Perhaps Carly Fiorino and Donald Trump should be hauled in and charged for inciting their followers to commit violent acts." Truer words . . .


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,John Scarlett
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 08:39 PM

I took a kettle large and new,
Fit for the deed I had to do.
My heart went hop, my heart went thump;
I filled the kettle at the pump.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:19 PM

IT's really all about the far right's insistence that bad guys should be identified as "Muslim Extremist Terrorists". Sauce for the goose...and equally unfair to non-extrwemists.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 12:04 AM

# says: Times have changed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman . Whitman wasn't once called a terrorist back then. He was called a killer. I think sometimes that our thoughts are formed based on the vocabularies we choose from.


Many people in this thread are working hard to put a label on this guy. And the deal with labels, is that then it's considered OK to blame the crime on anyone who can get pinned with the same label.

Seems to me that if a person is working alone, he can be called a "killer," nothing more. If he is working as a representative an organization that hopes to accomplish a political goal with the crime, then he can be called a "terrorist."

The word "terrorist" gets thrown around too easily nowadays. As somebody pointed out above, that practice apparently began with George W. Bush.

The trouble is, if this guy were Muslim, the entire world would be calling him a "Muslim terrorist."

But it seems to me that if it's an individual not working on behalf of an organization, the term "terrorist" doesn't fit.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 02:22 AM

What's this about?
Cruz countered, "It's also been reported that he was registered as an independent and a woman and transgendered leftist activist, if that's what he is."

Dear's voter registration, where he is listed as a woman, was uncovered by the Gateway Pundit, a self-described "right-of-center news website."

"We know that he was a man who was registered to vote as a woman," Cruz said. "


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 03:05 AM

He is what he is and his motives are what they are.

The problem with religions associating themselves with opposing what is legal and in the eyes of many a necessary service is that they give an amount of credence to people with fucked up minds. Inevitable when your recruitment drive is based on preying upon vulnerable fucked up minds in the first place.

This madman does not represent Christianity any more than ISIS represents Islam. But every time an employee of a church with a dog collar tells his flock that abortion is wrong coupled by telling them there is a higher authority than the laws your representatives make, well let's just say gullibility and believing what the employee tells you is part of the social conditioning.

Unfortunate consequences eh?


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 04:16 AM

So, according to musket, if it is a law made by your "representative" it must be right, eh ! That's the trouble with atheists, they have no ultimate standard to make a call on moral standards , but equally they can make up or change prior standards as convenient. Of course, not every religious person is consistent either....anticipating that objection...but that is not the same as saying there is no standard.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:15 AM

"Is it wrong for to disobey that law?"
Absolutely not - if that law is an unjust one, especially when it involves something as intrinsically natural as sexuality.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:32 AM

I agree with you Jim, and reject Musket's view that "opposing what is legal" is always wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 05:49 AM

So it is OK to reject a law you consider unjust, but only if you are an atheist?


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 09:59 AM

Hi, Bruce & thanks for the thegoodlordabove.com article- nicely done!

Unfortunately (for me), its hard for me to chuckle at that sort of thing these days- the satire comes too damn painfully close to the truth & the thought that the Republican Party is now composed of dangerous mindless assholes - and dangerous mindless assholes with a groundswell of public support - is profoundly depressing.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 10:48 AM

Greg, the Republicans have no chance this election coming up. Trump's numbers are down to 12% right now btw. Seems he may have gone too far overboard for even Republican stomachs. The present dog and pony show is just that. Remember, all the official news agencies are talking about what sells 'papers', but that's beginning to backfire on the lot of them. The key in the US will be the same as the key we used in Canada: get younger people to vote. Other than a small lunatic fringe, most people are fair-minded and that fact alone sinks the GOP. The Democrats have to follow the Liberal strategy from our election on October 19: state your platform, be polite and get voters engaged. I knew they'd win although I was surprised by how much.

The Republicans are all wind. The rallying cries are beginning to sound pretty hollow even to their supporters. Their type of conservatism is failing badly because all it does is play to the hatreds and fears of their voters but offers no alternatives to those voters. The press agencies aligned with them are starting slowly to be laughing stocks. As much as we might want a self-declared lunatic as President just to see if we'd notice a change, people will vote wisely, provided we concentrate on the youth vote. If we do, the election is in the bag.

Generally, count on 45% of voters to go Rep, 45% to go Dem and all that needs be addressed is that floating 10% that is up for grabs. If the Dems have the brains god gave a turnip, you'll have Hillary most likely (although Bernie is the best candidate, imo). Want to win the election? Get out the vote.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 11:08 AM

Want to win the election? Get out the vote.

Workin' on it, Bruce. And I've got my fingers crossed.

Best,

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 12:28 PM

Meanwhile, the high court in Belfast has called the church inspired abortion laws there an infringement of human rights. The Stormont government had said prior to the ruling that they have no plans to reform the law. Now it appears they will have to look again if they are to remain signatories to The International Convention on Human Rights. As they cannot opt out of that (Westminster decision) it looks like women who have been raped won't have to travel to England, Scotland or Wales any more to receive the care they need.

As Musket said, religious nonsense is not above real law.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 01:16 PM

WHOOOAAAH! Atheists, Pete7stars, are as capable of holding and maintaining notions moral and ethical as are theists or the card-carrying members of any "theistic" group. You are making a judgement:" they have no ultimate standard to make a call on moral standards , but equally they can make up or change prior standards".
Pete ~ you … [lack of appropriate term]. And we all know that no theists or card-carrying club members has|have EVER changed "prior standards".
[Lord's name in vain] Peter!
one does not need deity to have ethical standards
back 2 the mandolin, half hoping there's some glitch & this doesn't post. But I had a moral obligation to challenge this unsupported and unsupportable notion.
BS=BS I guess this is my contribution 2 the manurepile … dennis


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 02:50 PM

Whoooooah, yourself dr word. Did I say there were no atheists with moral standards ?!. But tell me what is your ultimate moral standard ? Or where does your moral obligation to challenge me come from ? My guess , is, it is subjective.. The nearest you got to a holy and authoritative text is Darwin and Dawkins and co. survival of the fittest anyone ! Certainly there are some very moral atheists....and there are Christians who are not,t they have a standard, but fail to live it.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 07:11 PM

Pete: no, you didn't. But go read what you DID say. Your self-righteousness is glowing even in your rebuttal. What has "holiness" to do with secular texts? I regard the "holy" books ~ of ALL religions ~ with the respect I accord to those who hold them sacred. I respect you also, Pete, despite my 'tone' in my post. Just, please, don't tell me what (or how) I think. Think it through a bit ~ slippery slope ahead ~ this sort of generalizing and stereotyping simply ain't very helpful … and your received "moral standards" are somehow 'objective'????? I take it you've got all the bases covered. Over and out. Peace. The truth _shall_ set you free.
keep on pickin'
dennis


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 07:47 PM

Think it through a bit

No chance.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 08:11 PM

Well if there's an ultimate authority on moral standards I think I'll stay paganistically immoral. For two thousand years the aficionados of the Bible's moral standards have downtrodden women so much that even today it's regarded as highly respectable to sanctimoniously deny the right of women to be priests, using disgusting, pseudo-profound arguments in oh-so-measured tones. Biblical moral standards haven't exactly done much for gay people either. And turning the other cheek can be terribly wrong, leaving people you may be responsible for protecting vulnerable to harm. And what kind of a world would it be if everybody gave all their stuff away? And how irresponsible to say that you shouldn't worry about providing for tomorrow. He obviously wasn't much of a family man. And, worst of all, you're blessed if you believe even though you haven't seen. That's about the most immoral advice in the whole book. But it's rubbed off very well on the Christian "educators" of children. That's what they still tell them!


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 01:58 AM

I think the best moral standards are rationally-based, imposed by an individual on himself, and not by some authority. Good morals should consider the welfare and well-being of the individual, his family and circle of friends, and his community - all in balance. I would think that by nature, morals should be something positive and beneficial.

I don't think it's necessarily bad for an external authority (especially parents of children) to impose standards of moral conduct when needed - but to my mind, a truly moral person is one who is self-directed, one who does moral things because they make sense to him.

But of course, we all know people whose moral compass is corrupted for one reason or another.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 02:27 AM

Fair comment, Dennis. You are quite right, I did,nt make it clear first time around that I was not claiming atheists cannot be moral.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 02:48 AM

First define terrorist.

Second, puzzle why things like Faux News call every killer who expresses himself to be Muslim a terrorist, but refuses to use the same term for killers who express themselves to be Xtian.

Third, where's that link to the Xtian cult leader who is actively saying that abortionists should fear for thier lives? I understand that in US law there may be a distinction between calling for an act of violence and merely encouraging it, a doctrine based on the judgments against the KKK some years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:02 AM

Bad laws are bad and can and should be opposed.

Unfortunately, those who use their invisible friend on this thread as a guide twist what I put about there being no authority higher than government to say that I reckon government laws should never be opposed.

My previous two posts to clarify that have been deleted. Moderation is to not express a view.

My fault for questioning the God botherers. Their mate moves in mysterious ways.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:35 AM

Well I agree with all that, Joe. Speaking from my own experience, however (which was far from being the worst thing ever), along with my fellow Catholic classmates I had a brand of morality drummed into me that took me years to question then (at least for many aspects of it) shake off. The number of things I was told were sinful, which were not actually sinful at all, was legion (litany available on request), not to speak of the ways I was to see others different from me by virtue of their religion, sexuality and gender. Moral guidance for children is a very fine and necessary thing. Though note "guidance", not the imposed faux-morality that is primarily designed to keep you from straying from the flock. That kind of morality, ironically, is far more likely to make you end up doing immoral things. That's why we have ISIS, rabid evangelists and violent anti-abortionists.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 06:38 AM

"Islamic terrorism" in its current context is motivated by a wish to impose a particular form of Islam on others. It is aimed at beliefs rather than actions, and is aimed at other views of Islam as well as believers in other religions or in none. It is a journalistic shorthand which serves to condense a complex issue into a few words.

That seems to me to be very different from an attack on an abortion clinic, which is motivated by the perpetrator's views on abortion. These are probably likely to be derived from a religious point of view, but I think it would be misleading to call this "{insert religion of choice] terrorism". In the current context, it is something quite different, even if religion may be part of it.


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Subject: RE: BS:Planned Parenthood Shooter-Christian Terrorist?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 07:45 AM

Rubbish, Howard Jones. It seeks to impose certain forms of conduct, which are not required by Islam (as far as the consensus of Islamic scholarship goes).

And as for Xtian terrorism, a friend of mine has found the link I was looking for -

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/11/evangelist-calls-on-christians-to-assassinate-abortion-providers


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