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BS: Election Day, who's going?

Greg F. 08 May 15 - 05:26 PM
Vic Smith 08 May 15 - 02:30 PM
Jim Carroll 08 May 15 - 11:42 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 May 15 - 10:54 AM
GUEST 08 May 15 - 10:04 AM
Musket 08 May 15 - 10:03 AM
Musket 08 May 15 - 10:02 AM
Teribus 08 May 15 - 09:56 AM
Jack Campin 08 May 15 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,# 08 May 15 - 09:52 AM
GUEST 08 May 15 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria (sans cookie) 08 May 15 - 09:46 AM
Steve Shaw 08 May 15 - 09:14 AM
GUEST,# 08 May 15 - 09:12 AM
Musket 08 May 15 - 08:39 AM
Jack Campin 08 May 15 - 08:33 AM
Will Fly 08 May 15 - 08:27 AM
Rob Naylor 08 May 15 - 08:19 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 May 15 - 08:11 AM
Musket 08 May 15 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 08 May 15 - 08:01 AM
GUEST 08 May 15 - 07:55 AM
Steve Shaw 08 May 15 - 07:54 AM
GUEST 08 May 15 - 07:51 AM
akenaton 08 May 15 - 07:09 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 May 15 - 07:03 AM
Steve Shaw 08 May 15 - 07:02 AM
GUEST,Peter from seven stars link 08 May 15 - 06:53 AM
GUEST 08 May 15 - 06:52 AM
GUEST 08 May 15 - 06:50 AM
Steve Shaw 08 May 15 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 08 May 15 - 06:43 AM
GUEST,# 08 May 15 - 06:33 AM
Jim Carroll 08 May 15 - 06:32 AM
Will Fly 08 May 15 - 06:32 AM
Will Fly 08 May 15 - 06:29 AM
Big Al Whittle 08 May 15 - 06:29 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 May 15 - 06:20 AM
Steve Shaw 08 May 15 - 06:04 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 08 May 15 - 06:01 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 May 15 - 05:50 AM
Musket 08 May 15 - 05:48 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 08 May 15 - 05:07 AM
GUEST,Dave the Gnome 08 May 15 - 05:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 08 May 15 - 04:46 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 May 15 - 03:34 AM
Thompson 08 May 15 - 03:31 AM
akenaton 08 May 15 - 03:08 AM
Nigel Parsons 08 May 15 - 03:04 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 08 May 15 - 01:12 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 May 15 - 05:26 PM

Hamas do carry out terrorist attacks on ordinary civilians

Kinda like Israel did in the recent bombardment of the Werst Bank you mean?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 08 May 15 - 02:30 PM

Election Day, who's going?

Well, Milliband, Clegg and Farage for starters.....

But wait a minute, there has just been a statement made to reporters:-
"I shall be resigning forthwith as leader of UKIP. The party will be having a leadership election in September. Over the summer, I shall be considering whether to put my name forward for that election."


Let's take the second sentence first.... If he is to retire, how come he can set the timing for the election of a new leader before he has submitted his resignation? Might that not be someone else's job?
Then let's consider the third sentence.... If there is any doubt in his mind about continuing, why is he resigning now? If he does put his name forward for re-election, who else in this one-man band party is likely to oppose him?
There we have it; Britiish democracy in action.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 15 - 11:42 AM

"There is no democracy in Gaza now."
Bit difficult to establish democracy when you have a hostile terrorist state for a neighbour
Stop using this thread as a platform ("thread drift", as some people are fond of saying)
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 15 - 10:54 AM

Hamas did once win an election, but that was eight years ago.
There is no democracy in Gaza now.
The opposition were murdered or fled.
Hamas do carry out terrorist attacks on ordinary civilians so they are a terrorist organisation and recognised as such by real democracies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 15 - 10:04 AM

FYI Jack

Hamas was NOT democratically elected to the executive branch. It won a plurality in the legislative branch.

After they failed to form a government, about a year after the election, Hamas and Fatah reached a power-sharing unity government under the Mecca Agreement (brokered by the Saudis). Then in June of 2007 Hamas perpetrated a violent coup (throwing Fatah officials off roof-tops) and illegally seized all power. Only about 20% of the PA population supported this military takeover.

The directly elected President (in 2005) was (and remains) Abbas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 15 - 10:03 AM

"State" as in public sector, just before you get pedantic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 15 - 10:02 AM

It is neutral for many state pension funds as they are unfunded, just as a point of interest, as I am sure you will enjoy people pointing out your errors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Teribus
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:56 AM

Stock market is rising already - That is not only good news for the 1% MikeOfNorthumbria - it is good news for every pension fund (Trades Union; Employee both Public Sector & Private in the country).


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:53 AM

Hamas is a democratically elected party and is not part of the jihadist movement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:52 AM

Steve, we face something similar in Canada although many of us hope the October 19, 2015 election will get the Conservatives out. It's been over nine years and our democracy has crumbled. I now despise Conservatives so much I will not knowingly allow one in my home nor will I speak with one. Not just the elected folks, but also the voters who put them in office. I do believe that a country and its people can be judged fairly by how they treat the poor and disabled. It has become disgusting here. I'd best stop because it's 'all downhill from here'. I wish you all luck. Thank you once again, btw.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:48 AM

Galloway's political ties in the Middle East have consistently been with secularists who have been the toughest opponents that jihadist Islam has had to face.

He both supports and funds the Islamist terrorist group Hamas for one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,MikeOfNorthumbria (sans cookie)
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:46 AM

Neil Kinnock said in 1983:

"If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday, I warn you not to be ordinary. I warn you not to be young. I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old."

Plus ca change...

Good news for the One Percent (stock market's rising already). Not such good news for all the poor turkeys who've just voted for an early Christmas.

Wassail!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:14 AM

That is very unlikely. There are difficult times ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 May 15 - 09:12 AM

Thank you to those who have helped me gain some understanding of the UK election process. It certainly holds a few mysteries. I hope your next five years are good ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:39 AM

Interesting point by Nick Robinson (BBC)

In the last Parliament, Cameron could turn round to Europhobes, anti equality bigots and right wing campaigners and say "I can ignore you because Lib Dem will deliver the votes I need to make you irrelevant."

He needs all his party votes now, as no party with more than eight votes could or would back his manifesto.

Conversely, there are enough Tory MPs shaky on an EU referendum that could gang up with Labour, SNP and Lib Dem to make it less of a given than we may think. Ken Clarke pointed out that Parliament would debate giving a referendum and that is as far as the manifesto goes.

Not how I read the manifesto, but interesting all the same.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:33 AM

Meet Naz Shah, the remarkable Muslim woman who came from nowhere to kick George Galloway's Islamist ass out of Bradford West in a crushing defeat for the arrogant Scot turned Jihadi apologist of Saddam Hussein.

Galloway's political ties in the Middle East have consistently been with secularists who have been the toughest opponents that jihadist Islam has had to face. Saddam being one of the toughest of the lot.

The Americans have now killed a few million people and reduced three countries to barbarism in their war on Arab secularism (assisted by British cheerleaders like Blair). Galloway's pals have usually been pretty unpleasant but he doesn't have that sort of blood on his hands.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:27 AM

Fair enough, Rob - I think we have to disagree on that one. :-)

I find it rather frustrating to know that, no matter how I vote, my geographical location and it's demographics will make that vote slightly irrelevant. I've had some positive dialogues with my local MP - mainly about environmental issues in my neck of the woods - and always found him reasonable and approachable. As you say, a good constituency man.

But I find myself out of kilter with most mainstream Conservative thought and policies.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:19 AM

Will: Unfortunately, one has to vote - if one votes at all - for policies rather than personalities.

I don't see that. I vote for the person rather than the party, and always have. Political parties these days have become mainly collections of "lobby fodder" for the whips rather than a collection of people of broadly similar leanings. Their policies can change at the drop of a hat.

So I evaluate who amongst the candidates in my constituency seems to have the most integrity, independence and the energy to really go all out to represent the constituents. A willingness to rebel against party lines, vote with their conscience and a minimal tendency to obfuscate or dissemble also go into my "mix" when choosing who to vote for. I've voted for members of 3 different parties in my voting live, and not in the traditional "left---right" progression either.

I've only ever lived in one marginal constituency, so usually my vote is wasted, but at least I can feel that I voted for someone who I would be happy to have representing me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:11 AM

It won't be on the back of this election.
It will be the big issue in the Scottish election next year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:08 AM

He now has his majority. I hope his one nation rhetoric is backed by action. His party is called the Conservative and Unionist Party.

The only thing of interest that takes the wind out of SNP sails is that Sturgeon is against austerity measures but there is no way he would allow higher spending in Scotland from the same pissing pot.

His "one nation" approach could be interesting.

What is also interesting is how Sturgeon this morning said those assuming another independence campaign on the back of this election are deluding themselves. It makes the reading of some of these posts rather funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 15 - 08:01 AM

Millipede, Clang and Cabbage have resigned.

Naz Shah certainly is an amazing woman, Guest. Well done her!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 15 - 07:55 AM

Meet Naz Shah, the remarkable Muslim woman who came from nowhere to kick George Galloway's Islamist ass out of Bradford West in a crushing defeat for the arrogant Scot turned Jihadi apologist of Saddam Hussein.

The Independent


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 15 - 07:54 AM

They are represented in parliament by the MP in their constituency. I am a lifelong Labour supporter but I have never lived in a seat held by Labour. That does not mean I am not represented in parliament. It means that I am represented by a person who was not my first choice. It's fine to talk about electoral reform, but it is not fine to start the conversation with inaccurate statements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 15 - 07:51 AM

Scottish National Party with 1.5 million votes get 56 seats while UK Independence Party and Greens with 5 million votes between them get only 2 seats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 May 15 - 07:09 AM

I think the rest of the UK should think about proportional representation....apparently UKIP and the greens polled almost over 20% of the national vote, yet the people who voted for them have almost no representation in parliament?

Shortly, when we have independence, I expect Scotland to adopt PR.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 15 - 07:03 AM

No overall majority yet
Tories on 325 seats (of 650) 9 results still to come.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 15 - 07:02 AM

Educate yourself before posting is my advice. In fact, it's always my advice to you. Unfortunately, if you complied it would keep you away for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Peter from seven stars link
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:53 AM

It has taken much longer than expected#', due to higher turnout than was expected. 2010 was lower. Don't seem no doubt now though that Cameron is back to no 10 .         If being in the eu is good for us, I have yet to be convinced how so. What is it , six billion we pay into it every year?.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:52 AM

Or indeed about the racist part, but that's a different problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:50 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2015/results

12.6% UKIP is frightening. I wonder what the other partites are going to do about the non-racist part of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:49 AM

There are still some seats to declare. The Tories, effectively, now have an overall majority. Maybe 12.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:43 AM

If you bleat too much you may be baaaaaahhhhhhhhed.

I'll get my coat...


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:33 AM

I cannot find a final count on the www. When will that be in?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:32 AM

"I do not bleat or complain about being mocked."
Yes you do
"I do complain that you people do it instead of debating."
No we don't - we debate - you produce fictionalised suppoertes and constantly claim "I won" on the basis of having done so.
"My contributions may be "tedious" "
Far from it - they are, on the whole, highly entertaining
I suggest you stop making this about you before you send another thread crashing in flames
Please let people discuss the election
"England has placed itself centre right as usual."
England has done no such thing
People seldom vote on policies - I have yet to meet anybody who actually believes a politician's promise.
They vote in the hope that the next time they might, just might do what they claim they will at election time - and they never do - so in five years time the wole fisco will be repeated.
In the meantime, the rich will continue to get richer and the lot of the rest of us will continue to deteriorate.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:32 AM

Just had a thought - perhaps I could start the UKulele Independence Party.

What? Been done already? Bugger.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Will Fly
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:29 AM

Bit of a bummer for those people who, like me, live in a constituency which, traditionally, has a massive majority for one particular party. If you are of a different political persuasion, voting is like piddling into the wind. I actually didn't vote at all this time - for the first time since I was old enough to vote. Mrs. F. gave me the predicted telling off ("If everyone did that... etc."), and I'm sure she's right, but there you have it. I just couldn't be arsed.

If you're interested, my constituency is Arundel and South Downs - massively, 80+% Conservative, so my non-Conservative vote wouldn't have made a ha'porth of difference, as it never has in the past. The irony is that the resident MP, Nick Herbert, is actually quite a decent guy and really does his best within the constituency. Unfortunately, one has to vote - if one votes at all - for policies rather than personalities.

No one party reflects all the policies that I approve. Hey ho, back to the ukulele...


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:29 AM

Keith you have a bleat, if you feel like it!


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:20 AM

I do not bleat or complain about being mocked.
I do complain that you people do it instead of debating.
I also think that mocking someone's faith is unfriendly and constitutes a personal attack which goes against the whole ethos of Mudcat.

My contributions may be "tedious" but, as you said yesterday, at least the do not provoke the moderators.
Also, Joe has reflected on his comment about me and can not think of anything we disagree about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:04 AM

Why don't you just try making valid points for discussion instead of bleating about being mocked and accusing everybody except you of getting threads closed? The threads in which you are a prominent presence are by far the most tedious threads here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 15 - 06:01 AM

It takes two to tango.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 15 - 05:50 AM

they lose is indeed not mockery. You lose is.

I can't see the difference, and according to the people who actually close the threads, it is your mates Steve and Musket who are instrumental in getting them closed.
Not me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Musket
Date: 08 May 15 - 05:48 AM

I wasn't happy with how Labour portrayed themselves, and the thought of Ed Balls as chancellor going forward frightened many people. Whilst I voted Labour, the thought of a majority Labour government with nobody putting the brakes on ideology is not a good idea whilst ever we have austerity measures to consider, regardless whether it's through eat the rich (or starve the poor, a feature of a majority Tory government , which at the time of writing looks to be on the books.)

The largest issue now is the irresponsible rush to a Euro referendum. Consent of the people can only be useful if it is informed consent and to date, I have yet to see any rhetoric from Tory or failed UKIP sources as to viable reasons for questioning our future and the destabilisation a referendum can cause regardless of outcome. Scotland last year being a good example. Turkeys don't vote for Xmas but inward investment suffered all the same.

Mind you, on the Scotland issue. Fifty seats doesn't give you any bargaining power in Westmonster, especially if propping up a government with a slim majority goes against your political stance. I did like both Sturgeon and Salmond though for pointing out that this was nothing to do with any independence stance and those who voted SNP purely to revisit the referendum will be disappointed as they obviously haven't been listening to what the party has been fighting on in this election.

If however a referendum on Europe goes against reason, Scotland has every right to say the landscape has changed and as ll but one Scottish Westminster seat is pro EU, another referendum would be legitimate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 15 - 05:07 AM

Oh , and Keith, they lose is indeed not mockery. You lose is. But no-one really care about your silly little games when it comes down to serious issues so try not to bring them over from threads you have already been instrumental in closing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 15 - 05:03 AM

I will be perfectly honest and let people know that I voted for neither of the main parties. They have all gone further down in my estimation due to this campaign of scaremongering by both sides of the fence. Rather than voting for issues we have been reduced to voting against the biggest bogeymen and that is wrong. Had we have been marginal I may have voted Labour but in our constituency a Tory victory is inevitable.

We can but hope that, as in many capitalist societies, big business start to see that the welfare of people is important to maintaining a sound economy. My optimistic view is that the more influential and moderate business leaders will pull enough strings to stop any excesses from the governmental puppets.

Hopefully when incomes start to rise, so will spending and tax revenue. With a growing economy it should be inevitable that the poorest will also benefit but that is where my theory may be dashed. I hope not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 May 15 - 04:46 AM

Cameron will lead a Conservative government without needing to do any deals.
England has placed itself centre right as usual.
Labour wins when it moves onto that ground as under Blair.
When they move to the left, as under Miliband and Kinnock, they lose.
(And that is not mockery Dave)


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 15 - 03:34 AM

how many by-elections would it take before the Conservatives lost their majority?
That would depend on which party's seats came up for by-election, and which party won the by-election.
Although the Tories don't yet have a majority, if they get one, future by-elections could just as easily increase their majority.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 May 15 - 03:31 AM

Nigel, the SNP are in the position the Irish Unionists have traditionally held; they can give or withhold support to the government and swing legislation their way.
I'm not that familiar with the British electoral system - how many by-elections would it take before the Conservatives lost their majority?


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 May 15 - 03:08 AM

Onward and upward!......Not "Jockalypse Now"....Independence Now!!!.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 May 15 - 03:04 AM

It looks like the SNPs wishes to partner Labour in government, and thus have a strong say, have been well and truly scuppered.
They are now just a minority party (although not in Scotland) smaller than Labour, and about on a par with the historic Liberal party.


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Subject: RE: BS: Election Day, who's going?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 08 May 15 - 01:12 AM

I think the point is not where a politician or PM comes from but what their priorities are and what they put first - party or country! And the facts are that a big portion of Scots trust the SNP to work for Scotland more than they do the other parties. I've seen it myself how ministers can look to actively work against their own country.

I would think that whatever the result of the referendum was all politicians would work for Scotland and stand up for Scotland's interests! However I saw the opposite. I was at a dinner where David Mundell was guest speaker. There was a story, which was later shown to be false, that Spain would look to block Scottish entry to the EU.

Now Mundell could have taken the tact about warning that it may be difficult to gain entry because of this threat. However he didn't. He was rubbing his hands in glee, laughing, and stated "we've found an ally in the Spanish PM" to loud applause from the mostly elderly Tory audience. I was astonished that a Scottish member of the UK gvt was applauding a foreign politician who he thought was threatening to work against Scotland. More than astonished I was disgusted.

Even in this campaign the english Tories have been spinning anti-Scottish rhetoric to English voters for months now. Led to believe that Ruth Davidson was livid but no current Scottish Tory politician stood up for the legitimacy of Scottish members at Westminster. Likewise Labour did not condemn it either. Only retired unionist politicians spoke out (Michael Forsyth, David Steel, Henry Mcleish etc)

So sorry many Scots (and I know it is not all) just see the politicians as being more interested in short term party interests and long term careers in the Lords etc than they do in actual Scottish interests.


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