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BS: American 'dating' for grownups

Mrrzy 12 Apr 15 - 05:00 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 12 Apr 15 - 09:50 PM
Thompson 13 Apr 15 - 02:36 AM
Will Fly 13 Apr 15 - 07:06 AM
Wesley S 13 Apr 15 - 08:53 AM
Anne Lister 13 Apr 15 - 09:59 AM
Mrrzy 13 Apr 15 - 11:15 AM
Greg F. 13 Apr 15 - 11:26 AM
Will Fly 13 Apr 15 - 12:44 PM
Richard Bridge 13 Apr 15 - 02:45 PM
Anne Lister 13 Apr 15 - 05:24 PM
GUEST,Lindy 13 Apr 15 - 10:29 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 13 Apr 15 - 10:46 PM
michaelr 13 Apr 15 - 10:56 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Apr 15 - 12:53 AM
Charmion 14 Apr 15 - 08:27 AM
Mrrzy 14 Apr 15 - 11:16 AM
GUEST,Stim 14 Apr 15 - 04:12 PM
GUEST 14 Apr 15 - 04:50 PM
Ebbie 14 Apr 15 - 05:27 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 14 Apr 15 - 07:18 PM
GUEST,Mrr 16 Apr 15 - 07:37 PM
GUEST 16 Apr 15 - 09:30 PM
Rob Naylor 16 Apr 15 - 09:39 PM
GUEST,loner 17 Apr 15 - 10:03 AM
Richard Bridge 17 Apr 15 - 10:08 AM
frogprince 17 Apr 15 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 17 Apr 15 - 11:30 AM
Greg F. 17 Apr 15 - 04:41 PM
Gibb Sahib 17 Apr 15 - 05:33 PM
Bill D 17 Apr 15 - 07:53 PM
GUEST,Mrr 17 Apr 15 - 09:17 PM
Bill D 17 Apr 15 - 09:33 PM
Stilly River Sage 18 Apr 15 - 02:54 AM
Amergin 18 Apr 15 - 08:59 PM
Bill D 18 Apr 15 - 11:34 PM
Amos 18 Apr 15 - 11:45 PM
Mrrzy 29 Jun 15 - 08:37 AM
Will Fly 29 Jun 15 - 09:25 AM
Stilly River Sage 29 Jun 15 - 10:01 AM
Bill D 29 Jun 15 - 05:15 PM
GUEST 30 Jun 15 - 11:51 AM
Richard Bridge 30 Jun 15 - 12:16 PM
meself 30 Jun 15 - 04:00 PM
Mrrzy 01 Jul 15 - 12:40 PM
GUEST 02 Jul 15 - 08:28 AM
Mrrzy 02 Jul 15 - 05:06 PM
Bill D 02 Jul 15 - 07:15 PM
GUEST 03 Jul 15 - 02:40 PM
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Subject: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 05:00 PM

So, how do you interview someone for a possible sexual friendship while excluding other friends from the interaction? I am interested in advice for men and for women, straight and gay relationship-seekers. I didn't grow up here, I don't understand the concept. I don't recall the French doing it. Dating, I mean. We went out in groups, some members of which were in couple-relationships some of the time. But even the couples went out with their friends, or else it would be boring. I don't understand the idea of just 2 people (especially who don't know each other yet), going out without anybody else that they do know, for the purpose of figuring out if they would like to stay in... so how do you go about it, when you and the people you would like to consider staying in with are all over 40?


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 09:50 PM

Most hetero couples I know in America....who are beginning a new relationship...begin by going together to get a blood test.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The resent explosion of HIV in an Illinois community is a good example why.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 02:36 AM

The French way sounds much nicer.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 07:06 AM

Surely everything depends on how you manage your social life generally? Many people mix in some sort of social circle, with friends who know friends who know friends - societies, walkers, dinner and drinking, etc. - and meet singles that way. Friendship can then grow into a more personal and intimate relationship through conversation outside the shared interest. Then you leave the shared bit and concentrate on each other.

If you don't have those connections, then many people resort to dating agencies or forums or "singles" clubs, and meet perhaps a succession of people until one person "clicks".
I think friendship and companionship is the most important thing - the more intimate bits can come later if it all works. I've met most of the friends in my life - male and female - through playing music. That's one way.

But I wouldn't go for "interviews"...


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 08:53 AM

I'll probably be blasted for mentioning a church - but what worked for me was meeting my wife at a church sponsored singles group. It had enough group social activities planned that I got to know her long before I asked her out on a "date". So my suggestion is to just get busy with groups - political, musical - whatever - that will bring you in contact with folks that share your same values.

In your post you mentioned a " possible sexual friendship ". So are you interested in a long term romantic relationship or something less committed? Knowing exactly what you are after will help you identify it when it crosses your path. So my suggestion may not apply. Happy hunting.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Anne Lister
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 09:59 AM

I'd agree that you need to be sure what you're looking for. British society is probably not quite like US society but I think there are similarities ... I found true love via the internet, myself, when I had decided that it wasn't just a "sexual friendship" but a fully configured relationship that I was after. We've been together now for fourteen years, so it's worked well for us. I met him when I was 48 and although I had lots and lots of friends via social settings I wasn't meeting unattached men who wanted a relationship.
So I set about a campaign, via the dating site I was using (and I think there are many better sites out there now), and made a point of meeting a range of potential partners for real rather than spending ages merely on line. I looked after my own personal safety by always meeting in a public place, always telling a close friend as much detail as I could about my "dates" and where we were going and so on. I met a lot of unsuitable people (by which I mean people with whom I had little or nothing in common and with whom there wasn't the faintest suggestion of attraction) before the right one turned up, and the trick for me was to treat it like an informal interview (sorry, Will!).
It worked for us. Some people find a personal ad in a paper or magazine works. Some find their true love via Mudcat or other internet forums. Some get lucky in their own neighbourhood in interest groups. Some get introduced to friends of friends. There's no one way. If all you want is a sexual friendship you'll find that fairly easily on line. There are a lot of people out there looking for uncommitted sex, including a lot of married people (as I discovered, despite specifying I wanted to meet unattached men).
Good luck with the search, whichever way you choose to set about it!


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 11:15 AM

It's not that *I* want to treat it like an interview, I just find that I'm *being* interviewed (and not being called back). It's kind of like my job search - I've been part-time since 2002. And while at this point I'm OK wiht being an adjunct, I'd like to have a real mate, rather than another friend with benefits.

There is in American dating, I find, a huge issue with whether sex is OK or not. Somehow, thinking it not sinful marks me as promiscuous (which is, of course, then, baaaaad. In the States, I mean). It doesn't matter whether I *have* sex or *have had* sex; it bothers Americans (men and women, gay and straight) that I consider it a normal part of adult behavior, that I don't think that there is something of *moral* value in delaying or avoiding it, that I don't seem to need to be *chased* (which, considering that they want me to be chaste, is funny to me).

And it's not that I sleep with them and then wonder where they are when I wake up - when the subject comes up and I'm not faking a disgust I do not feel, Americans metaphorically run for the hills. Or they get all nudge-nudge wink-wink and slimy, so I do. Run for the hills, I mean. We never get to the sleeping together part.

I have been online and in person, singly and in groups, trying to meet people for years, and will continue to do so. I am very interested in y'all's take and appreciate the feedback.

Online and face, most of my friends are not American-raised, oddly enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 11:26 AM

it bothers Americans (men and women, gay and straight) that I consider [sex] a normal part of adult behavior

I dunno what fringe group of USA-sians you've been hanging out with, but this is a far from universal opinion and strikes of the "Christian"[sic]fundagelical trait that, though disappearing, is unfortunately still present in U.S. society.

Time to change the crowd you hang out with.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Will Fly
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 12:44 PM

Hay Anne - I'm glad you met someone you now consider a soul mate and who impressed the "interview panel". "-)

If it worked for you, that's fine - I've just never in my life gone out of my way to meet someone/anyone on purpose, so I don't think I know much about that side of things.

But then next year is our golden wedding anniversary - so what do I know about modern dating!


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 02:45 PM

I agree that sex is a normal part of human behaviour - and indeed it seems to me that once one is a certain age, one really ought to be able to make up one's mind whether one wants to fuck somebody without too much shilly-shallying. But I'm not American and I've never had a sexual relationship or a relationship that I wanted to be sexual, with an American - oh, hang on, I did ask an American working on an archaeological dig in Chester on a date about 40 years ago. We had a pleasant-ish date but she didn't seem to fancy me so I didn't ask her out again. Perhaps I missed out there by not understanding American "rules". I do worry about religious nutters though - most are boring and some are dangerous.

First date with my current inamorata was at the Anonymous demo in Parliament square, about October 2013. We talked for so long in the pub that we nearly missed the demo.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Anne Lister
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 05:24 PM

Will - not so much a question of impressing the "interview panel", more a question of knowing as soon as we met that he was indeed what I was looking for and more! I don't want to make it sound as if there were right and wrong answers or behaviours, but with internet dating you can easily formulate an entirely wrong image of people if you don't meet them for real. Preferably sooner rather than later, as the longer you chat on line the more you create an image of who they are.
Mrrzy - you know this, of course, but if you're meeting people who can't deal with you as a whole person (including, of course, your sexual nature) then clearly you haven't met the person yet who is right for you. I don't know if it's a question of Americans or not-Americans .. not quite sure it's possible to generalise about millions of people ..but I do know that it took me a while to find the right person for me, and I almost gave up. Oddly, in my case, I remember saying to my close friend that I WAS giving up and would have to compromise - and then the man who is now my husband turned up within a few days. That whole thing of "you'll find it when you're least expecting it" turned out to be true, after all.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,Lindy
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 10:29 PM

I am a female in my late 50's and find it really difficult to meet guys about age range mid-50's to mid-60's who are single.
I am into folk music big time so it would be nice to find someone with similar interests. I sometimes got to folk music venues, house concerts, etc to hear folk artists or even open mike nights, I do keep my eyes open to see if there might be potential guys (without their wife or date) but no luck.

I do have other interests, reading, travel, but just don't see any single guys alone. I am not working right now or I should say I do get temp. work from time to time but no luck at jobs to find a single guy. I am also looking for a non-smoker, no drugs, and just a light drinker. I am looking for a guy who is kind, good manners, has empathy towards others and a good conversationalist. You'd be surprised that there are a lot of guys around who are not that.
I haven't tried on-line dating yet - not sure if I feel comfortable with that very much. It does seem guys in their 50's & 60's are looking for younger women though and not women in their 50's.
I am petite, about 5'1" and medium build. So where do you find single guys? Not into sports really. Oh, also none of my friends know any single guys.
They are married and all their husband's friends are married.
They have all been married a long time so really out of the loop of trying to find anyone anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 10:46 PM

If there is a shortage of decent viable single guys in their 50s & 60s,
maybe there is a valid case to be made for polygamy ???

I'll just ask the mrs what she thinks...?????


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Apr 15 - 10:56 PM

Only young, unmarried people hang out in groups. Once couples emerge, the social circle narrows. Eventually, the divide becomes too deep - young married (or not) couples discover there are important concerns heretofore unknown that keep them out of the bars and clubs, and their single friends get bored with talk of pregnancies and babies, or just with losing their individual friends to (e.g) "Brangelina". The end result is needing to negotiate dinner dates weeks ahead to see anyone at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 12:53 AM

Folk music? LOTS of single blokes 50 to 70 (then they start dying).

Blokes who don't drink much? That could be challenging!

Morris dancing ditto.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Charmion
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 08:27 AM

Like Wesley, I met my spouse at church. He's a serving soldier, I'm a veteran, and we were introduced by an old soldier who knew only too well that, without help, young fellas who get posted every couple of years have trouble meeting like-minded people outside their immediate professional circle. Within a year, he was posted overseas and I met Mr Wrong -- and married him. Five years later, I divorced Mr Wrong and Mr Right was posted back to Ottawa and resumed attendance at the same church. But this time I was looking for somebody very different, and paid proper attention to Mr Right.

We were lucky.

My best friend, divorced for 12 years, married my elder brother quite abruptly when she was 59 and he was 61. They were vaguely acquainted for more than 25 years, and when his divorce was finally final (after 15 years of shilly-shallying over money), he asked her out on a dinner date. Before three months had passed, they were engaged.

My point, if I have one, is that Mr Possible, if not Mr Right, could well be already within reach; you just don't think of him quite like that. Yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 11:16 AM

Re Only young, unmarried people hang out in groups. Once couples emerge, the social circle narrows... this is mostly true of Americans, but not of other people I know. Americans sit with their spouses when at dinner parties - everywhere else couples split up (because if you wanted to talk to your spouse you could stay home). Many Americans only go out in couples, everybody else has people that one goes out with and people the other goes out with. I have lived on many continents and find this insistence on couples-are-one-person to be singularly American. And stifling to the meetings of individuals, some of whom are single...
I would love to discover a hidden nugget among my friends... but few of them are single. They are mostly in couples who maintain individuality even after pairing up... and I like living in the States. It's luxurious, otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:12 PM

Most people I know do "single subject" socializing--whether it's with extended family, co-workers, social or political causes, common interests(like sports, theatre, music or automobile restoration)--and the conversations and related interactions tend to exclude those that don't have a long time connection to the subject.

If you fall out of the loop for some reason(like changing jobs or getting divorced, or selling your Camero), or simply have had enough and run screaming from the room, there isn't much of anywhere to go where people aren't either total strangers or deeply involved in something that you aren't.

And so it goes...


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 04:50 PM

I met my partner when I stopped trying to find a partner and just got on with meeting people.

A good friend tried internet dating but ended up meeting her partner when she joined a rambling club.

There are too many variables around your own interest, location and existing social circle for "one size fits all" advice. However the one rule of thumb is that if you are concentrating on finding a one to one relationship then you will actually start frightening people off.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 05:27 PM

Only once did I ever attend a singles' club, and that was at the behest of a single man who wanted to meet more single women. I didn't enjoy it. I wanted far more from a prospective date than the fact that he was single.

My most enjoyable first dates were with people I went to an event with, whether it was sports related or an auction or a hike. Speaking of hikes, I met one supremely acceptable man when we were both on a hike with our dogs.

Shared interests to me came first, after that was that spark of interest when I suddenly *saw* something about someone and wanted to know more about him. That part is fun!


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 Apr 15 - 07:18 PM

You appear VERY uptight from your posting history.....



However, If you would like to gaggle with the geese....

Seek out your local kenel (I'm not saying you are a dog) of the Hash-House-Harriers, aka H3.

They sing, they run, they drink, they are FUN.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

An anchovey pizza with and oyster stew....who knows what your date once knew.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 07:37 PM

Gargoyle, that is a great idea. I have seen them around town.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 09:30 PM

michaelr: Only young, unmarried people hang out in groups. Once couples emerge, the social circle narrows. Eventually, the divide becomes too deep - young married (or not) couples discover there are important concerns heretofore unknown that keep them out of the bars and clubs, and their single friends get bored with talk of pregnancies and babies

I don't find that's true at all. Maybe in the US....I do notice that the times I've spent there people do very much seem to hang out in age-groups. But other places I've lived/ live (UK, France, Norway, Ireland, Russia) it's quite normal for people to socialise in mixed age/ sex groups. There tend to be more "boys' nights out" and "girls' nights out" in UK than in the other places I've lived, but hanging out with interest groups of all ages and genders (in my case climbers/ mountaineers; fitness/ running people; musicians) is very normal.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Apr 15 - 09:39 PM

Guest above was me with a dead cookie.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,loner
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 10:03 AM

I've never really dated in the sense discussed here, i.e. going out with a woman so as to get acquainted and to see whether we wanted a sexual relationship. But in my twenties and early thirties I would often sleep with a woman soon after meeting her and then start going out with her. We called that dating, but it's a different kind of dating. Prostitutes also use that term, in still another sense, or at least they did the last time one asked me if I wanted a date, which was many years ago. I never tried that type of dating.

In my type of dating, it always turned out that we shouldn't have started a sexual relationship, since we weren't socially compatible. At one point, over thirty years ago, I decided it would be better to get well acquainted first, to see if we were compatible in any sense other than physical attraction. I had enjoyed the sex and the companionship, but always hated the breakups, and I felt that the system was not likely to result in a lasting relationship and that I was ultimately a negative influence in those women's lives.

So I started behaving a little differently toward women I met. One woman I'd slept with had told me that the way I looked at her the first time we met made her feel I was able to see through her clothes, and that made her want to sleep with me immediately. I didn't really understand what she was talking about, but after I adopted my new get-acquainted policy I tried to avoid looking at women in a way that would suggest I'm seeing through their clothes. That was the only thing I did differently. Other than that, I continued to try to meet women and get acquainted, with an eye to possibly forming a sexual relationship.

But that didn't lead to the first kind of dating. In fact, since implementing that policy, I've never gone out with or been alone in private with a woman. When I saw the effect it was having, I considered giving up the new policy. But I was convinced that it would eventually lead to a lasting relationship. Many years passed, and I gave up that hope. But I liked the new system anyway, free of the emotional turmoil of the cycle of sudden flood of good feeling followed by painful breakup. I'm pretty sure that if I had gone back to that type of dating it would only have led to the typical short-term marriage that's so common now, with a costly and messy divorce and children left disoriented.

Now I'm quite set in my ways, and I relate to Garrison Keillor's description of Norwegian bachelor farmers. The only complaint I have is that not having a wife or girlfriend or even an ex-wife means that I have no social network at all. The only thing that seems available is bars with sports on t.v., but that doesn't appeal to me.

I'm sure it's not women who created the system I came up against. They suffer from it as much as I. I think there's just something in our culture generally that over-emphasizes the value of individual choice and leads to short-sightedness and pursuit of instant gratification in all things, including one's primary relationship. On the whole, I think we'd be better off with arranged marriage.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 10:08 AM

I think you misconstrue dating, Loner. I think it's more accurately to be described as going out with somebody to see if you can have sex with them.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 11:13 AM

I dare to believe (maybe foolishly assume, I dunno...) that a substantial share of people today function somewhere between the "good old" tradition of telling single people that God would smite them for any sexual activity outside marriage, or routinely " going out with somebody to see if you can have sex with them."


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 11:30 AM

As was the norm, I copped off with and bedded a girl I'd never spoken to before at a student party;
and nearly 35 years later we're still together...

So I haven't a clue about any form of dating,
and really don't know how I'd cope if for any reason I ever become single again.

We both have high 'drives' and need regular daily physical affection,
and that is a considerable bond that's helped keep us together.

If only she could sing or play a musical instrument.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 04:41 PM

"good old" tradition of telling single people that God would smite them for any sexual activity

Unfortunately, that ain't "good old". Its very much with us today, especially in the "Bible Belt" (i.e. Republican) sections of the U. S. of A. The Republicans want to go back a little further than the New Deal and undo the Enlightenment.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 05:33 PM

Americans bad, Europeans good. Got it.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 07:53 PM

well..... so many options and opinions.
It all depends of what YOU feel comfortable with. Groups are fine... but so can just two people sharing an evening of dining or theater.

When I left one life at 38 and began a new one, I was lucky in that I had an *interest* where it was easy to meet 'people' I enjoyed being around... folk music... I made NO attempt to 'find' someone, and it took about a year or so before one of the women in the group began ,,umm... showing some interest. We chatted, we laughed, and somewhere, an excuse came up to visit at her place to sing and chat. I still made NO assumptions about where it would lead, but a couple of months later, after an event, she made some remark about "long bus ride home". I said my place was walking distance, and she was welcome to stay there. She said fine, but I STILL made no absolute assumptions about where it would lead...though I obviously suspected. Once home, options were discussed, and we shared my bed. Next morning I discovered she had brought her toothbrush.....hoping.
So we 'dated' for several months, enjoyed each other's company and each learned something about ourselves. It turned out we were not suited for a permanent relationship, but we remained good friends. In my 55+ years as an adult, I have remained more or less friendly with almost every woman I have ever been close to... even when the relationship was non-sexual (one can't keep up with everyone of course, but I can't think of any that I would not like to catch up with.)

Upon analysis, I realized what had always been been my 'technique' or just simple rule, for meeting women: "Never go to bed with someone who you wouldn't enjoy being around if you were NOT going to bed with them!"

Later, after another few months, I met another lady in the same setting and a friend of the first one who had met me had 'suggested' to her I might be a nice guy.... conversations ensued, followed by a trip to a museum and sharing a couple of folk events on a 'date'... and suddenly we discovered we did not want to be apart. 35 years later, we are still glad we met thru a shared interest and avoided want ads and dating clubs, etc.

These days, I know people who have actually met on internet chat situations... and that is one way to clear up some ideas and compare notes.... (read into that all the necessary stuff).. but there have been happy, permanent relationships that way.

There is NO simple, universal way to proceed, but I always suggest that shared interests is the best starting point... whether you do it in an established group or not... and 'shared interest' MUST include honesty about important things. It's hard if you both like folk music, but have totally different ideas about food, children, politics... and of course, sex. (It shouldn't be necessary to say that you also need to be honest WITH yourself ABOUT yourself and what you are looking for.)

And obviously, much depends on where you live and what activities are available.... I was lucky to move to an urban area with many, many choices.
...finally, in America these days (and as my history shows), it is common for a woman to show 'enough' interest to get things started... using basic common sense about safety.

People are complicated... relationships involving two or more are synergistic... more than twice as complex as a single personality.

"Nothing ventured, nothing gained"


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 09:17 PM

Yes, I go to group things and meet people, but I *do* live in the Southern US...


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 15 - 09:33 PM

In my early days, *I* lived in Kansas. But one learns to move in sane circles.. ;>)


It is just a matter of comparing notes on morality issues with anyone you are meeting and deciding whether they are trustworthy.... the South is not universally conservative.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 15 - 02:54 AM

No, the South isn't uniformly conservative. Urban areas tend to behave more like large urban areas* east, west, and north of here. *Rural areas probably behave like large urban areas, but won't admit to it.

Friendships can be made and sex can be had. The trick is to make the friendship and decide that it's worth testing the friendship by adding sex to the formula.

With maturity comes the understanding of how destructive a sexual relationship can be, especially if one party is deeply in love and the other is merely curious. Best for the merely curious party to pass by that opportunity and let the tender heart not suffer a horrible injury if the relationship isn't going to happen. If both parties understand that recreation is a desired activity, and the friendship deepens, excellent.

I suppose that as a relationship evolves it might be entertaining for a group to observe. Dating while camouflaged by a group seems like it might be a more difficult way to get to the intended sex part, but would offer moral support of the relationship didn't get off the ground.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Apr 15 - 08:59 PM

Dating is a joke.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 15 - 11:34 PM

It is? Maybe it depends on how you define 'dating'.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 15 - 11:45 PM

Like any social script it can be a comedy of errors when the individuals are in spotty communication, waving blind spots at each other. It can also be a delight of humor, understanding, insight, and companionship, but it depends on how it is managed.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 08:37 AM

Can someone define "flirt" for American grownups? And differentiate it from "court" or "seduce" that is? Thank you!


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 09:25 AM

I think flirting means coquetry - being a bit naughty but without any serious intention behind it. Fun - light banter - teasing on both sides, perhaps.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 10:01 AM

Courting is paying close attention to another with the intent of winning their heart.

Seduce is the intent to get them into bed (or at least bring them around to your way of thinking).

Flirting is the pointed attention in a social setting, often a passing occasion, in which one shows focussed interest in the other person. It can lead to the other two, but isn't bound to do so. One can flirt and find the response is not adequate and back off. It is testing the waters.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 05:15 PM

Yep... testing the waters. Making light talk that 'can' lead to serious talk, but is easy to back out of if signals are not reciprocated.

That being said, flirting is simply not easy for some who don't LIKE playing word games. A simple direct approach is sometimes the way.

I have a cartoon in which a young guy is asking a woman he knows about another woman he is interested in.....

"So, Linda, how do you go about asking a girl if you can kiss her goodnight?"

"But Joe, you don't ask a girl if you can kiss her... you just do it!.....ummm...except, of course if she's the kind of girl who wants to be asked."

Joe, wandering off: "Sigh... there's so much to learn."


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 11:51 AM

Problems arise when one person's intention of good natured light hearted flirtation,
is another person's sense of inappropriate behaviour and harassment.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 12:16 PM

Guest is right with that!


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: meself
Date: 30 Jun 15 - 04:00 PM

What constitutes 'flirtation' as opposed to 'passion','courtship', or mere 'civility', depends upon culture as much as anything else - or probably more than anything else. Bear this mind if, for example, you are an aged, aged man visiting a place like Quebec, and finding that every beautiful teenaged girl working behind a counter is absolutely smitten by your suddenly-irresistable masculine charms ....


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Jul 15 - 12:40 PM

The issue I run into is that Americans don't flirt, they only seduce or feel harassed. Sometimes, the flirtation is the end unto itself and not a means to an end, mine or anyone else's. Am I wrong?


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 15 - 08:28 AM

Sometimes, the flirtation is the end unto itself and not a means to an end,
True, as long as you are both aware that it isn't meant to go anywhere it can be a lot of fun. If both of you decide that it can go somewhere it can be fun. If you have different ideas - disaster.


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jul 15 - 05:06 PM

But WHY "disaster"? It's just sex - or not. Why is it such a HUGE deal in the US, instead of the mild misunderstanding that it really is, or seems to be everywhere else?


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jul 15 - 07:15 PM

"...such a HUGE deal in the US..."

That's just too broad of a generalization. It might be among some groups, but certainly not everywhere or in all age groups or in all cultural settings. You just have to know where you are.... and.... just take chances. If unsure, people need to make the first attempt barely more than simple conversation. Responses will vary even within some groups.

You just can't define a rule-of-thumb that fits even the majority of situations.

(I have to confess.. I was 'flirted at' a couple of times many years ago and was was too dense to even realize it at the time. There's a fine line between too obvious and too vague. ☺)


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Subject: RE: BS: American 'dating' for grownups
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 15 - 02:40 PM

But WHY "disaster"?
Because one person then thinks that the other is saying "yes" when they aren't. Or do you think that rape is OK?


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