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BS: Evita Peron - whore

Bonzo3legs 20 Dec 14 - 11:32 AM
GUEST,John P 16 Dec 14 - 12:15 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Dec 14 - 08:38 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 07:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Dec 14 - 07:41 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 07:41 PM
Don Firth 14 Dec 14 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 14 Dec 14 - 07:35 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 07:22 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 14 - 04:15 PM
GUEST,# 14 Dec 14 - 04:07 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 03:00 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 14 Dec 14 - 02:36 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 02:34 PM
GUEST,Steve Shaw 14 Dec 14 - 02:28 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 02:17 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 14 - 02:15 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 01:50 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 14 - 01:35 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 01:16 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 14 - 12:58 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 12:34 PM
Little Hawk 14 Dec 14 - 12:24 PM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 12:22 PM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 14 - 11:59 AM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 07:48 AM
Bonzo3legs 14 Dec 14 - 07:39 AM
Ed T 14 Dec 14 - 07:29 AM
Musket 14 Dec 14 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Blandiver (Astray) 14 Dec 14 - 03:33 AM
GUEST,Stim 14 Dec 14 - 01:22 AM
Bonzo3legs 13 Dec 14 - 05:25 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Dec 14 - 08:43 PM
Bonzo3legs 12 Dec 14 - 03:12 AM
Bonzo3legs 12 Dec 14 - 02:46 AM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 08:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Dec 14 - 07:55 PM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 02:10 PM
Greg F. 11 Dec 14 - 12:17 PM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 11:34 AM
Greg F. 11 Dec 14 - 11:11 AM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 09:26 AM
Greg F. 11 Dec 14 - 09:11 AM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 08:41 AM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,Grishka 11 Dec 14 - 08:09 AM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 07:49 AM
Ed T 11 Dec 14 - 07:40 AM
akenaton 11 Dec 14 - 06:08 AM
akenaton 11 Dec 14 - 05:43 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Dec 14 - 11:32 AM

Guest John P - Sos un rey !


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,John P
Date: 16 Dec 14 - 12:15 AM

I've visited England three times. I even got married there. I clearly know everything there is to know about the country. All you UK folks don't hold a candle to me when it comes to knowing about England. I even know what you think. It should be obvious that I know what I'm talking about since I've been in England so often and my ex-wife used to live there. Proof? Piffle! Opinions? I don't have them -- everything I think of is the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 14 - 08:38 PM

Actually the main effect was to promote posts about cheese.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:51 PM

""I'm still puzzled why the thread title hasn't been changed.""

Agreed- it was suggested early on, with no change.

As Steve alluded to earlier, too bad it remained, as it likely limited interest (and set the tone) to debate (learn) potentially interesting Peron era-related topics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:41 PM

I'm still puzzled why the thread title hasn't been changed.

I suspect that if someone started a series of threads with a similar title about - well I won't suggest names. But pretty well regardless of name I am pretty sure they would get changed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:41 PM

""If so, he'd be 125 years old....""

He watched what he ate, and exercised regularly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:39 PM

"Hitler May Still be Alive, and in Argentina!"

If so, he'd be 125 years old....

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:35 PM

Why was my post deleted, mods? I used the word Nazi but I didn't call anybody here a Nazi, did I?


Nope. Didn't happen. Your post never made it to the site. It's best to select the entire post and do ^C and wait to see if it went through. If not, open the thread again and use ^V to paste into the text box and try again. --mudelf


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:22 PM

And don't forget - racecar is 'racecar' backwards!!!

Problem is it's two words. Kinda "fs up" the example?
;)

How about coche de carreras, does it work with that one too?


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 04:15 PM

And don't forget - racecar is 'racecar' backwards!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,#
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 04:07 PM

https://consortiumnews.com/2013/03/16/evita-the-swiss-and-the-nazis/

Not all views are as laudatory as some.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 03:00 PM

""You gotta be a magician to keep a kid's attention more'n two minutes nowadays. ""
Foghorn Leghorn


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 02:36 PM

Sorry, what was the question again, Ed?


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 02:34 PM

So, who did he sleep with Steve?
:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 02:28 PM

The saintly Pius XII (he of expedient dealings with Musso), and national superheroes the Perons, all helped to make it easier for Nazis war criminals in their attempts to escape justice. They may well all have been people of their times, but, no excuses, these dealings were still very murky. Not nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 02:17 PM

"chacun a son gout"

;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 02:15 PM

Very good, have a nice evening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 01:50 PM

Right!

That gives me complete trust in what you post is a tad more reliable than total bunk.

Seems like (IMO) you need to "get a life".

BTW, since I travelled to Venezuela five times, under your odd expert criteria, that would make me one on Chavez, Carlos the Jackal, and Simon Bolivar (including who they bedded). Strange as it may seem, I make no such claim (and provide no related sources).


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 01:35 PM

I don't do sources.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 01:16 PM

I asked for sources, and, rather than give them (if, in fact, you have them), you respond curtly.

As if going to Argentina would reveal the truth about "urban legands" versus verifiable information on aspects of 70 year old WW2 history. Just because someone travelled to Argentina-does not make everything they find on the internet any more accurate?


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 12:58 PM

Ed T - get a life! Go to Argentina and see for yourself, I have 7 times, so I think I know just a tiny bit what I am talking about!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 12:34 PM

Interesting how many internet stories are rife on the internet about new documents linking Argentina, and a few other neighbours with Hitler and his team - oddly, they never seem to become public for objective assessment (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). Yes, they are somewhat like runny cheese.

Here's one with a quick Google search:

Hitler May Still be Alive, and in Argentina!

""The "official story" says that Adolf Hitler died by a self-inflicted gunshot to the head. For decades, rumors swirled throughout Argentina that Hitler had in fact survived the bunker and escaped to South America's second largest country where he lived until 1962. Documents recently released by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington DC are giving some credence to the rumors. While no concrete evidence exists to support either the death-by-suicide or life-in-Argentina theories, the weight of the evidence is shifting""


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 12:24 PM

Blandiver - My goodness! Those are shocking revelations. I shall have to reconsider my statement about the color of cheese not mattering...


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 12:22 PM

""According to records now emerging from Swiss archives""

Are you able to provide more source information for the above claim, for folks to view it independently? Since you earlier referred to the woman as a "whore" , it is hard see your claims alone as an unbiased source.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 11:59 AM

Eva Peron was feted in Spain, kissed the ring of Pope Pius XII at the Vatican and hobnobbed with the rich-and-famous in the mountains of Switzerland.

Eva Peron, known as "Evita" by her adoring followers, was superficially on a trip to strengthen diplomatic, business and cultural ties between Argentina and important leaders of Europe.

But there was a parallel mission behind the high-profile trip, one that has contributed to a half century of violent extremism in Latin America.

According to records now emerging from Swiss archives and the investigations of Nazi hunters, an unpublicized side of Evita's world tour was coordinating the network for helping Nazis relocate in Argentina.

This new evidence of Evita's cozy ties with prominent Nazis corroborates the long-held suspicion that she and her husband, Gen. Juan Peron, laid the groundwork for a bloody resurgence of fascism across Latin America in the 1970s and '80s.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:48 AM

""And it's generally thought that christina kirshner was shagging chavez!!""

And, why would that matter, if it were so? Beyond being titillating to tabloid-type newspaper readers, that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:39 AM

And it's generally thought that christina kirshner was shagging chavez!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 07:29 AM

The old bearded men are likely just "pissed" because the divide is bigger than a mere "pond", as (unlike a pond) it is a huge, deep, cold, and very salty, ocean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Musket
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 03:55 AM

And we don't buy it in spray cans either..


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,Blandiver (Astray)
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 03:33 AM

Three things that simply don't matter: 1. The color of cheese.

Not sure how it is across the pond, LH, but to we vicious old men with beards who nurse ancient grudges over pints of ale in the UK, the colour of cheese is as serious an issue as the provenance of our folk songs:

How 17th Century Fraud Gave Rise To Bright Orange Cheese


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Dec 14 - 01:22 AM

It seemed to me that he was disagreeing with what you said, Bonzo3Legs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Dec 14 - 05:25 AM

I agree McGrath, very well put!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 08:43 PM

There are millions of people in Argentina. That's millions of points of views, and all of them the "right" point of view for the person holding them.

No doubt there are a lot of people who would see it the way bonzo does. And a lot who would disagree very strongly.

The indications seem to be that there are more of the latter than the former. That doesn't mean they are right, numbers never settle the argument when it comes to such matters. But they shouldn't be ignored either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 03:12 AM

......that is to say - views on the subject. Oh rumour has it that Kirshner had a fling with Chavez!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Dec 14 - 02:46 AM

No book can be as reliable as people who have lived in Argentina at the time. We are meeting a very well informed Argentine this weekend, I'll see what her view on the subject are. I know what she thinks of the present clown - Cristina Kirshner!


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 08:32 PM

MOH

That is why I normally ask where people have gotten their information, to determine how solid statements are grounded to something meaningful.I have no problems with opinions, I just like to know this so I have some way to guage the reliability of what is being expressed.

What constitutes an expert is another good question. We are all familar with the court system and the process courts go through to recognize someone as an "expert" witness. Then we see a bunch of experts on either sides giving completely different expert testimony.

Just because someone is consudered an expert does not exclude them from error, in judgement, opinion or otherwise. However, it does increase the liklihood that they have tied their statements and opnions to something well grounded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 07:55 PM

"Research" is a word that gets used very loosely these days. It can mean genuinely exploring a topic in depth, which takes a lot of time and effort. Or it can mean googling Wikipedia and a few other pages on the Internet, some of which are a lot more reliable than others, and maybe reading the odd book.

Noone can be genuine experts on more than a relatively few things. When we express opinions about the others we should always recognise that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 02:10 PM

A fair assessment. I never saw a purpose in the thread- though I did learn something about a topic early on, that I knew little about before, by looking stuff up for myself.

When the absentee op poster made a claim and failed to explain it or back it up when asked - there is no credibility to the claim (which is not the same as saying it does not have some possible validily).

As Steve indicated, there was potential for an interesting dialogue on a side issue, the Peron years, it never evolved as a focused discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 12:17 PM

I merely vresponded that I don't plan to do the research for anyone too lazy to back up a case

Rather like yourself? I'm done with this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 11:34 AM

You seem to be the first to resort to abusive comments, versus actual content Greg.

It seems like you also "read between the lines" greg. Nowhere did I state I havent done a bit of reasearch on the topic-you did. In response to your "somewhat-prickly" comment in my direction, I merelyvresponded that I don't plan to do the research for anyone too lazy to back up a case or a slur- op posted.


Rather than take a "dog in the manger" approach, (making motherhood statements, that google searches can reveal information), I shared links to, IMO, good information sources I found. As a courtesy, and to stimuate informed discussion, if you have that interest-in discussion, (and, I am unconvinced you do) you could do the same, versus skimming over posts to shoot off meagre-level shots.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 11:11 AM

Now where ever did you ever get such an odd, premature, if not abrasive notion Greg F.

No need to be abusive, Ed - I got it from several of your statements, e.g." I have no desire to research a case that is not mine to make" & etc.

Besides, you're hardly alone; there are many people who expect to be spoon-fed information so that they don't have to expend any effort themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 09:26 AM

""You apparently prefer not to read at all, Ed, if you can't bother to take 5 minutes educate yourself.""

Now where ever did you ever get such an odd, premature, if not abrasive notion Greg F? Nothing of the like is so apparent at all.

If you more closely read a few posts,versus shooting off such drivel, you would see that you are merely "shooting speculative blanks" versus posting reliable information on what others read- where you are not present.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 09:11 AM

I prefer not "read between the lines" for reliable evidence, Steve.

You apparently prefer not to read at all, Ed, if you can't bother to take 5 minutes educate yourself.

IMO, she made the right choice

And, since you've admitted you haven't done any research, that "opinion" is worth bugger-all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 08:41 AM

""The horrors of German Fascism were unknown at the time.""
Yes, many powerful folks "flirted" with those who eventually turned out to be facists, such as in Britain.

Mr. Peron seems to have established a fascination with Mussolin in the early days when he was posted to Italy. Argentina seemed to remain relatively neutral in early WW2, benefiting financially from trade with all sides (possibly a bit like the US of A). There is significant conjecture where his war sympathies resided, as well as what level of post-war cooperation existed with escaping german leaders. But, this also exists with some neighbor countries. Like many nations, Argentina had an early migration-in of people from Germany.

Long after Eva's death, after long exile, Peron returned and obtained some power (to some degree based on the popularity Eva garnered many years before) -but, there is uncertainity if he was actually lucid, (or, if he ever was totally so) as others seemed to be calling the governing shots. It was during this period that the CIA seemed to have cold-war interest in the Peron government, as the "dirty war" blossomed. The CIA was established in 1947- a year after Peron first took power.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 08:21 AM

Whatever, Grishka.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 08:09 AM

I wrote that my source was a biography, not the musical or the film based on it. Balanced judgment is a virtue for historians, not for dramatists. If Shakespeare had written reinactment scripts, he would have been a better historian, but a worse Shakespeare. Now, Tim Rice is definitely not a Shakespeare, but did a reasonable job. Lloyd Webber's contribution is quite interesting in many passages, but if he had really decided to become a serious opera composer, he would have ceased to be Lloyd Webber.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 07:49 AM

One of the benefits if discussion, it encourages folks to seek information normally would not pursued. The site below leads to a fair amount of information on the Perons, from books, media etc. But, you have to fish around the site.


Peron 


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: Ed T
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 07:40 AM

"It means looking intelligently through and beyond the romanticisation and near-idolisation visited on the Perons from some quarters down the decades. They were hardly paragons."

Well, as tempting as it may be, it's more fruitful, but less entertaining, to seek grounded evidence of each individual and their symbiotic relationship, versus less-grounded gossip, slanted viewpoints, or slurs. That is where a high standard of evidence exists..

I recall few Argentinian , or latin American paragons-most seem to have flaws. But, a few were linked with positive change for their countrymen, often in a challenging governing climate. Though not free of flaws, and facing significant opposition, Eva made a few changes in her short life, while enjoying public exposure and lifes rewards. A controversial figure, she is remembered both passionately and less so, by other folks- like the OP poster.

For whatever reason, IMO, she made the right choice championing the poor and promoting women's rights- versus the powerful wealthy and military elites. You pay a price for doing that in many countries. If she screwed every guy, or gal,in the country while doing that seems unimportant to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 06:08 AM

Actually a huge number of people supported Fascism in the late 20's and early 30's.
Mosely, after WW1, in which he behaved extremely courageously, crossed the floor and sat with Labour as and Independent and soon joined MacDonald's Labour cabinet.

The horrors of German Fascism were unknown at the time.

In the sixties I worked with a Communist ex railway driver, who told me stories of battles fought with the "blackshirts" in the East End of London during the 30's......The Fascists had much public support
my friend reckoned 50/50..... The Communist fighters were much in the minority, but as public opinion changed in the lead up to war with Germany, they prevailed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Evita Peron - whore
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Dec 14 - 05:43 AM

Where has any one said that the Perons were "paragons of virtue"?


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