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Whitby. Was it always in August?

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Betsy 07 Oct 14 - 06:14 PM
Steve Gardham 07 Oct 14 - 05:36 PM
The Sandman 07 Oct 14 - 05:32 PM
Betsy 07 Oct 14 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 07 Oct 14 - 04:18 PM
Steve Gardham 07 Oct 14 - 02:36 PM
The Sandman 07 Oct 14 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 07 Oct 14 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 07 Oct 14 - 10:15 AM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 07 Oct 14 - 10:12 AM
Steve Gardham 07 Oct 14 - 09:19 AM
Steve Gardham 07 Oct 14 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,Georgina Boyes 07 Oct 14 - 05:15 AM
r.padgett 07 Oct 14 - 04:11 AM
Doug Chadwick 07 Oct 14 - 03:59 AM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 06 Oct 14 - 08:10 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 06 Oct 14 - 06:57 PM
Steve Gardham 06 Oct 14 - 05:01 PM
JHW 06 Oct 14 - 02:27 PM
JP2 06 Oct 14 - 01:04 PM
Steve Gardham 06 Oct 14 - 11:23 AM
GUEST,Brimbacombe 06 Oct 14 - 11:00 AM
r.padgett 06 Oct 14 - 09:25 AM
JHW 06 Oct 14 - 06:34 AM
GUEST,folkiedave 05 Oct 14 - 03:28 PM
GUEST 20 Sep 14 - 05:58 PM
GUEST 19 Sep 14 - 05:55 PM
The Sandman 19 Sep 14 - 04:07 AM
r.padgett 19 Sep 14 - 02:52 AM
Steve Gardham 18 Sep 14 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 18 Sep 14 - 03:36 PM
GUEST 18 Sep 14 - 12:03 PM
Betsy 18 Sep 14 - 07:29 AM
r.padgett 18 Sep 14 - 03:27 AM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 17 Sep 14 - 05:05 PM
r.padgett 17 Sep 14 - 04:43 AM
GUEST 16 Sep 14 - 08:08 PM
The Sandman 16 Sep 14 - 06:41 PM
GUEST 16 Sep 14 - 03:49 PM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 15 Sep 14 - 05:10 PM
Spectacled Warbler 15 Sep 14 - 12:55 PM
Mo the caller 15 Sep 14 - 11:04 AM
selby 15 Sep 14 - 06:27 AM
The Sandman 15 Sep 14 - 04:10 AM
r.padgett 15 Sep 14 - 03:21 AM
GUEST 15 Sep 14 - 03:12 AM
Michael 14 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM
selby 14 Sep 14 - 04:49 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 14 Sep 14 - 04:38 AM
GUEST,Malcolm Storey 13 Sep 14 - 06:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 06:14 PM

Stuart Macfarlane of Fettlers MBE no less - I wonder if he would have been disqualified from receiving his gong - if it had been made public that he had inadvertently (or otherwise) stamped your wrist. Seriously though - a nice enough bloke and blessed with one those great voices where the person (seemingly) effortlessly and tunefully booms out a song in perfect key. Not many around - apart from in the Wilsons I suppose.

Cheers
Betsy


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:36 PM

It wasn't Bob who ate the moth, it was the Yorkshire competitor who Bob co-opted. Nancy was indeed there, and Mindy. I offered to post the list but nobody responded.

Mick was a great loss, amazing to think he was only 44 when he went. It felt as if he had already had 2 lifetimes. For somebody who rarely performed he left a massive gap on the folk scene in 1974.

We rarely bought tickets in the early days. All monies were reserved for booze. I remember at one of the first festivals trying to blag my way into the Drill Hall ceilidh. On the door were Hazel and Mac (Stuart Macfarlane of Fettlers). Hazel was on form, physically ejecting anybody without correct documentation. They had these little rubber stamps that they stamped on your wrist to say you'd paid. While Hazel was dealing with somebody else Mac quickly stamped my wrist. She went purple when she saw it but I got in.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:32 PM

Bob Spray, DIFFICULT to forget.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:18 PM

I'm loving this thread, mainly for all the (human) inaccuracies and how some, remember the most inconsequential details and details I'd forgot.
To JP2 - I have a method of those car Number plates and I always remembered ? / believed that the "C" was 1965 , so D was 66, E67, F 68 and G....
Pedantic or what ? - just Heartbeat rekindled my interest many years ago in such trivia.
To Steve G. I thought you would have given Nancy Robbo a mention, perhaps, you do, some where else it was alway s good to see her shewas a good lass with her ideal partner Mick.
I would say Bob Spray was many things , but a Moth Eater ? Georgina you have opened-up another avenue which I didn't know existed. Wow.

Cheers
Betsy


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 04:18 PM

That's one to the Mudcat research team - still a lot of catching up to do.

Those two years were part of the experimental period when the Bank Holiday was in the process of being moved from the first Monday in August. I believe the legislation was eventually enacted in 1973 but no doubt one of the research team can verify that - there's Brownie points on offer here.

I have more than enough books Derek - some of which I have not finished colouring yet. A book on a festival I have never had any desire to visit would hardly be top of my list. Now one on the National at Keele, Loughborough and Sutton Bonnington might just be of interest - the ball is back with you.

Incidentally I had the butterfly location from Bob Spray but people camped in odd places back then.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 02:36 PM

Derek, Absolutely!


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 02:22 PM

Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield - PM
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 10:12 AM

Doug Chadwick is correct. The "Late Summer" bank holiday was in September in 1968 and 1969.
Now then Malcolm, you should have bought and read a copy of my book on the history of Towersey festival (on the bank holiday weekend) - all was revealed in there, page 23....
Derek
Malcolm can only read Yorkshire, none of your southern namby pamby Crewe,Literature


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 01:52 PM

I wish to aver, apropos of a discussion further up the page, that the Southport Swords were always known as the Southport Swords, not the Liverpool Sword Dancers.

Thinks. Was there ever a sword dance team based in Liverpool?


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 10:15 AM

Tony Wilson, though from Liverpool, was certainly a leading light in the Southport folk scene - Bothy Folk Club and all...
Steve - you "out of body and mind experiences" were alcohol fuelled based on your earlier message!
Derek


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 10:12 AM

Doug Chadwick is correct. The "Late Summer" bank holiday was in September in 1968 and 1969.
Now then Malcolm, you should have bought and read a copy of my book on the history of Towersey festival (on the bank holiday weekend) - all was revealed in there, page 23....
Derek


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 09:19 AM

I remember the eating contest more clearly. It must have been one of the very brief periods I was in remission from the booze. The Yorkshire entry was a tall skinny fella, nothing like a glutton might look. On the menu were a full loaf of sliced bread each, some beer, some raw eggs still in shells and a tin of sardines each. The Lancy fella went off at ten to the dozen and tried to eat the loaf first. The Yorky lad was as cool as owt and just took his time. I think he started with the eggs and then opened the sardines and made a sandwich with them. By this time the Lancy had stupidly started guzzling the beer and the bread he'd swallowed started to expand with the beer and he keeled over and had to depart quickly. I don't even remember if the Yorky finished everything off but he won by default anyway.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 09:11 AM

Derek,
You are very likely correct. In my drunken stupor I just noted they were from Liverpool. Near enough. I think big Tony Wilson was in charge if that helps. And Loftus sounds more likely as well. We danced North Skelton as our first dance and Loftus is very like N Skelton. Just blame it on the out of body and mind experiences we all had at the time.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 05:15 AM

This is almost turning into a potential case study for legend researchers - or entomologists:

The story I heard about the Yorkshire champion for the Eating Contest was that Bob Spray (the Yorkshire Captain) had discovered him lying on a tombstone by the Abbey eating a moth.

Georgina


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 04:11 AM

Now who is clever!

SG would never have admitted it anyway

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Oct 14 - 03:59 AM

AUGUST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY HAS NEVER OCCURED ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. HOw COULD IT?

According to Wikipedia, the bank holiday was on 1st September in 1969.


".... The rule seems to have been to select the weekend of the last Saturday in August, so that in 1968 and 1969 Bank Holiday Monday actually fell in September."


DC


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 08:10 PM

Well Steve has started it all off again.

Lots of corrections to do but the main one is to disagree with old mate Steve for once - and that hasn't happened very often in the last nearly fifty years.

Just about dates really.

AUGUST BANK HOLIDAY MONDAY HAS NEVER OCCURED ON SEPTEMBER 1ST. HOw COULD IT?


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 06:57 PM

Steve ... are you sure it wasn't Southport Swords rather than Liverpool Sword Dancers (who I have never heard of), and Loftus rather than North Skelton, who were not in existence in 1969, as far as I know.....
Of course, I was at home in Liverpool at the time and you were there, but .....
And Hilary Waterson later moved to Manchester as I knew her there in about 1971 or 2, when Alan Hodson organised a visit from Hull folk people to Manchester university folk song society (of which I was secretary). It was I think Lal and Mike, Jock Manuel and Jim Eldon. She's now in Australia, so Norma tells me.
Derek


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 05:01 PM

I don't think the Salamis were born in 1969! (only joking, but no they came along a lot later.)


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JHW
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 02:27 PM

Were The Salamis there?


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JP2
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 01:04 PM

What year was the Mattesson's sponsored festival?

I have vague recollections of a song contest in praise of pork products and a goody bag of salami,polony,black pudding etc, being handed out in the Old Spa Ballroom when he winning song was sung.

Did this happen or have I mis-remembered it?

And who won the song contest,I think we should be told!

My first Whitby Festival was 1968 I think,'cos I had a new car that year with a reg number of PRY 194G which I'm sure is '68.

JP2


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 11:23 AM

Just writing up my reminiscences from my diaries for the Hull Folk Archive. I kept a very detailed diary, some would say too detailed, for most of 1969.

That would have been what, the fifth festival?

It ran from Saturday 30th August to Wednesday 3rd September, the Bank Holiday being on the 1st, so somewhat late.

My girlfriend, Pam Brown, and I got a lift there on the Friday night with Leo Lynch, one of Hull's resident Irishmen. There were large contingents from Barnsley, Liverpool, Harrogate, Hull and Leeds, in fact I noted almost twice as many people as the previous year. It was obviously the year in which song started to swamp the sedate dance side. The main singing on the Friday was going on in the Star.

The Saturday night ceilidh at The Drill Hall was absolutely crammed. Mick Robinson was out of his skull dancing on the stage. The dance teams that were there included Liverpool Sword Dancers and North Skelton Sword dancers.

Sunday singing in the Star again then when that shut more singing on the pier and then in the afternoon a football cum rugby match on the beach Hull v Leeds.

Monday was the famous bookstall at the bandstand. This was the year Jim Parkinson turned up with his fish lorry and bought 30 bob's worth of books at 5 bob a yard. We thrown out of all the pubs in the evening so we had song sessions on the bandstand then on the pier.

Having sobered up by the Tuesday Pam and I bought some tickets off Hilary Waterson and went to a lecture on mummers plays by Paul Smith.
We went to a singaround in the afternoon and then into the Star for more singing at night, followed by a late-night spot at the Drill Hall.

Wednesday morning, more sobering up with a lecture by Harry Boardman on Lancashire Dialect songs. On the last night ceilidh Pam and I sang.
After that we all went to the beach for a big bonfire party organised by Mick Robbie. Must have got me shirt and socks wet as I burnt em trying to dry em out at the campfire. Got back to the campsite at 3.30 a.m. The next day Jim Parky gave us a lift in his fish lorry to Middlesborough and from there we hitched to Northumberland, seahouse and the Farne islands with Rob Lennox.

Sad git I know! I made a list of all the people I knew who were there if anybody is interested.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Brimbacombe
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 11:00 AM

Given how inventive/team-spirited things used to be, I can't help but wonder if we should start petitioning the government to re-introduce the old policy of closing pubs in the afternoons for Whitby Folk Week every year. (That's not to say things aren't team-spirited or wonderful these days, by the way, and some stuff such as the Family Folktunes are great. But half-pissed folk legends involved in sandcastle-building competitions? Great!)


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 09:25 AM

The year Tony Capstick judged the Sandcastle Competition on the beech

behind the Board Inn we bought a crate of guiness for our team (guess!)


The pubs shut at 3pm and Tony arrived late ~ well he ended up banging

on the pub door as he knew them

He says Malcolm (Storey) say Barnsley team cannot win) we were winners though!!


Ray

many TC stories about!


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: JHW
Date: 06 Oct 14 - 06:34 AM

For quite some years whenever, a load of us from Darlington used to sing in the Elsinore on the Saturday After the festival week then go down to Ruswarp and engage in maritime battles on the boats there with folks from Southport I think?


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 05 Oct 14 - 03:28 PM

I wrote up some of my memories for Sally who is compiling the book. I am glad Malcolm (as well as myself) remembers the story of the butterfly and the eating contest - though I thought it was the Seaman's Mission where he was catching the butterfly.

Two of the Yorkshire Lancashire events were a race up the Abbey Steps - won by Rob Lennox - and a race around the harbour pubs - having a half in each.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Sep 14 - 05:58 PM

Yes - answer to thread


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 05:55 PM

It's the careful upbringing Dick.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 04:07 AM

beer is always expensive if you are a yorkshireman.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 19 Sep 14 - 02:52 AM

"Jock did the same tour again the next year when all the clubs paid him a fee!"

Well I got that one Malcolm, and beer wasn't that expensive was it?

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 03:57 PM

With Jim already there and Jock visiting I'm surprised they didn't drink the place dry.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 03:36 PM

Just an aside regarding Jim the Fish.

After he moved to Bristol he arranged a tour of Folk Clubs in the Bristol area for Jock (Ian Manual). When asked what sort of fee he wanted Jock replied that he would be happy for a bed, some basic expenses and his beer paying for.

Jock did the same tour again the next year when all the clubs paid him a fee!


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 12:03 PM

No, Jim the Fish was Jim Parkinson. He used to turn up with a fish lorry/pickup. At the annual booksale on Bank Holiday Monday on the bandstand we were all there looking for antiquarian material and Jim rolls up, buys 5 yards of books and chucks 'em in the back of the pick-up and off he goes. This would have been about 1969.

He moved away to live in Bristol where he died some years back.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Betsy
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 07:29 AM

Jovial Jim??? could that have been Jim the Fish from Hull. Loud singer good fun, he was good mates with all the Hull crowd Watersons , Ian Manuel, McGarry , Jil Pidd etc.

Good lad - he was easily recognised - he had a "water-cooled syrup" (his joke not mine) . He had a badly-fitting light coloured wig, underneath which, on occasions he used to sweat rather profusely and sweat would run down his forehead. Hence ....


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 18 Sep 14 - 03:27 AM

Gobbledigoinga mind of its its own ok I am plagued by it summat to do with the lap top hav

See what I mean??

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 17 Sep 14 - 05:05 PM

Re: the Plough

Frank was the man with the moustache, he was the actual landlord. His son in law Brian ran the pub for a number of years in the seventies and eighties when Frank could be found in the small bar which was known as - wait for it - Frank's bar!

I recall a Sunday morning briefing / meeting of the booked guests and representatives of the bands and dance teams in the days of Grahame Binless. There must have been nearly a dozen people there - how times change.

anurrentlkd - translation from Barnsley please.

I think we all had good memories of the Plough - afternoons with Roy Atkinson and Steve Gardham spring to mind.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Sep 14 - 04:43 AM

The Plough of course was an early focal place for folkies. the upstairs room was used a folk club in the early days run by Wacky Baccy Jim Wilkinson (if I can say that!) in normal times

The Plough had one guy who was retired RAF with a great moustache and did not really like folkies and was bit rude (he was bar man) ! Did not see much of the landlord

Jim took over as bar man during folk week and the bar was busy with folkies singing and playing at every opportunity in the front bar (long room) middle room has stairs up to club singing room and accommodation, and small bar anurrentlkd wooden posh bench seats and I think a Grandfather clock ~ most days folkies such as Pat and Clive Woolf and the Scottish singer whose name escapes me ~ ah Willie Scott and Fred Jordan and on occasion Pete Coe ~ now PC and friends decided to put food on in there and I bought something ~ put on aplate which promptly fell off' whoops!

Well a centre for meeting of course, the back room (near the steps) had people like Tony Wilson and Tom Napper playing duelling banjos concurrently ~ what a racket driving people out ~ the yard was full of people playing singing and boozing of course

Ray no doubt others can expand


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 08:08 PM

Good question Dick - could one be a trifle more specific?

Which jovial jim are we referring to?


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 06:41 PM

was jovial jim ever seen at whitby?


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 14 - 03:49 PM

How refreshing - next!


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 05:10 PM

Taffy Thomas had one of those imaginary dog leads.

Thought of getting one myself - it would have saved carrying the plastic bag around - but unfortunately I could not afford the licence!


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Spectacled Warbler
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 12:55 PM

Yes!!    I'd forgotten about the meeping and Tony Grapevine!!   Thanks for reminding me of that, Ray.    Fun times.

Joy


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 11:04 AM

In recent years there was a sort of Hiring Fair in the Spa cafe - there was a blackboard and people claimed their spot in the running order.
I only watched 1 act there, don't know if anyone got bookings from it.
But Whitby is doing Youth stuff now which could also give performers a chance to be seen, and the Newcastle Degree concert of course.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 06:27 AM

Thank you Guest I agree with you but was not 100% certain


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 04:10 AM

yes, i remember him not at whtby but when i was playing at sheffield grapes, bit unnerving to have a fellow with an imaginary dog in the audience, he even barked once and told the imginary dog to be quiet.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 03:21 AM

Just seen Joy's posting re Brian the Potty Poet, yep remember it well I still have a least one or his books of potty stuff and him "meeping" some crazy characters and no drugs except alcohol of course

Brian was a one eyed Milkman who had an electric milk float, from Sheffield and on one of the hilly ist milk rounds imaginable

We went with I think Patrick Walker, Brian, Booker, me and assorted others to a restaurant where Brian's imaginary friend "Tony Grapevine" ~ a big round tube of cardboard with a slit at mouth from which hung a cigarette which smoked [air circulation] and dressed to resemble a bloke

Well the poor waitress was non plussed when Brian starts ordering for Tony Grapevine, not sure whether to laugh or cry really.

he also had a joke dog lead, no dog just a lead unbelievable!!

Ray


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Sep 14 - 03:12 AM

I'm pretty sure I first saw Artisan in the Hiring Fair at the Meropole in that front room, in the early 80's.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: Michael
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 06:14 AM

Sorry!!! Must have been before my time.
Mike


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: selby
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 04:49 AM

Thanks for that Malcolm was suspecting my memory cell.


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Sep 14 - 04:38 AM

Go on then .................. 100


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Subject: RE: Whitby. Was it always in August?
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 13 Sep 14 - 06:25 PM

The room in the Metropole that was originally used for song events was called the American Bar. Fancy me forgetting that when I think of all the great and good that performed there including the Holme Valley lads.

It was where the Chinese Restaurant main area is now and there was a long narrow bar along most of the wall away from the cliff.

It is perfectly feasible that the Hiring Fair did move there for one year. Well spotted Keith. I had been thinking of the Ballroom, which at that time was not really equipped for the sort of event the Hiring Fair was.

Not that it is much better now, in my opinion.


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