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BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix

Mrrzy 24 Aug 14 - 01:03 AM
Ebbie 24 Aug 14 - 02:11 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Aug 14 - 02:36 AM
GUEST,Stim 24 Aug 14 - 03:33 AM
Charmion 24 Aug 14 - 06:51 AM
Lighter 24 Aug 14 - 11:13 AM
GUEST,# 24 Aug 14 - 11:20 AM
Richard Bridge 24 Aug 14 - 12:10 PM
Lighter 24 Aug 14 - 12:24 PM
Rapparee 24 Aug 14 - 12:26 PM
Bill D 24 Aug 14 - 12:41 PM
Ed T 24 Aug 14 - 12:45 PM
Rapparee 24 Aug 14 - 12:59 PM
Greg F. 24 Aug 14 - 01:05 PM
MGM·Lion 24 Aug 14 - 01:08 PM
Ed T 24 Aug 14 - 01:34 PM
Mrrzy 24 Aug 14 - 01:41 PM
olddude 24 Aug 14 - 01:44 PM
Bill D 24 Aug 14 - 01:50 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Aug 14 - 02:30 PM
Bill D 24 Aug 14 - 02:33 PM
Lighter 24 Aug 14 - 02:36 PM
GUEST,Fl!p Breskin 24 Aug 14 - 02:47 PM
Uncle_DaveO 24 Aug 14 - 03:32 PM
Lighter 24 Aug 14 - 04:41 PM
Don Firth 24 Aug 14 - 05:23 PM
Ed T 24 Aug 14 - 05:33 PM
Mrrzy 24 Aug 14 - 05:37 PM
Lighter 24 Aug 14 - 05:55 PM
Mrrzy 24 Aug 14 - 06:38 PM
wysiwyg 24 Aug 14 - 07:37 PM
Ed T 24 Aug 14 - 07:41 PM
mg 24 Aug 14 - 07:59 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Aug 14 - 08:02 PM
GUEST 24 Aug 14 - 08:20 PM
GUEST,leeneia 24 Aug 14 - 08:31 PM
Lighter 24 Aug 14 - 08:38 PM
Don Firth 24 Aug 14 - 09:47 PM
olddude 24 Aug 14 - 10:22 PM
Bill D 24 Aug 14 - 11:12 PM
Gibb Sahib 24 Aug 14 - 11:52 PM
Jim Dixon 25 Aug 14 - 12:19 AM
PHJim 25 Aug 14 - 01:24 AM
GUEST,# 25 Aug 14 - 05:09 AM
Richard Bridge 25 Aug 14 - 05:18 AM
Ed T 25 Aug 14 - 06:25 AM
Airymouse 25 Aug 14 - 08:34 AM
artbrooks 25 Aug 14 - 09:31 AM
Lighter 25 Aug 14 - 09:45 AM
Lighter 25 Aug 14 - 09:57 AM
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Subject: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:03 AM

Maybe it's just in the US where there is a different kind of racism than anywhere else I've lived, including (barely) post-Colonial West Africa, but the term "People of Color" is beginning to really, really bother me... The calm assumption that white = normal and anything else = something different bugs me. Can we start using People of Paleness to mean anybody who isn't completely sub-Saharan, black African? After all, that's what all the races are, is various degrees of not-as-black-as-original.

This is partly in response to being accused of Not Supporting The Cause at an anti-racist-cops rally for being unwilling to assume all cops are racist, and saying that any assumption that all individual cops in my city are as racist as some cops in Ferguson, is as bigoted as the assumption by some cops in Ferguson that all "people of color" are criminals.

Apparently it's OK for PoC to tar all people who choose to wear blue with the racist brush, but not OK for the cops to tar all PoC with the criminal brush... if you're a PoC and don't wear blue.

I dislike bigotry. I prefer assuming that you don't know what an individual will be like, rather than assuming that they will be like *your* stereotype of what you think *their* group is, when you feel they have a group to which you feel you don't belong.

I am accused of desiring reason in an unreasonable world, but I really only would prefer it from those capable of reason. *Sigh*. I don't try to pray away a hurricane but I will argue with people who say I am "against them" because I don't support *everything* they say.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:11 AM

When one is speaking of differing conditions that affect different races, one might legitimately say something on the order of "People of color in that town experience a different reality than those..."

Hmmmmm. I've changed my mind. I can't think of an occasion when 'people of color' is appropriate.

Thanks, Mrrz.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:36 AM

The trouble is, all these euphemisms for racial differences fall into disrepute after a while, as being either too explicit or too euphemistic -- as here. "Black" used to be regarded as too crude, so it had to become "colored" [US spelling], as in the NAACP. But then that was thought of as too prissy by the colored/black community themselves, and "black" became the acceptable usage to them, as in the "Black Power" movement, and at present pertains as the generally accepted term of use. Among some, even that became unacceptably evasive, so you got the truculent reaction of naming a black group defiantly calling themselves "Niggaz With Attitude", which predictably distressed some and inspired and stimulated others.

And so the cycle continues: today's acceptable is tomorrow's just-won't-do, as being too extreme one way or the other. I don't see any permanent acceptability of any term in any direction, I fear. All part, either of the "rich tapestry of life", or of the concept of "original sin", depending which way you look at it.

Innit...

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 03:33 AM

I might have expressed it differently, Mrrzy, but I am pretty much with you on this. "People of Color" is a fairly irrelevant discernment.
"People of Reason" seems much more important.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:51 AM

I have a colour (sic) -- sort of a pale pinkish tan. It's nothing to be proud of, in my opinion, or to disparage, except with respect to one's susceptibility to carcinoma.

But i'm being disingenuous. My bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 11:13 AM

Because there are more colors than black, "people of color" began in the US quite a few years ago *specifically* as a self-chosen designation to make a contrast with "white people." It covers brown, red, and yellow people too (all of which are the terms preferred by the designated groups, though I suspect "yellow" will soon be supplanted by "East Asian."

Why would one think that "people of color" implies that standard "people" are white? It counterbalances "white people," not "people."

What bugs me is that while "people of color" is a recommended usage, "colored people," which you'd think is exactly equivalent and which was the polite and accepted form in my youth, is now rejected as "racist."

Then consider the convoluted history of "Negro" (which is not synonymous with "person of color").

We still have the highly regarded "National Association for the Advancement of Colored People" and the "United Negro College Fund."

Use these terms in other contexts, however, and brace yourself.

Perhaps someone has surveyed what terms the average American of color considers acceptable or insulting. The spokesmen (oops! "spokespersons") we generally seem to hear from are self-promoting media types.

Nobody said things make sense. Did they?


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: GUEST,#
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 11:20 AM

A person of colo(u)r, for real.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 12:10 PM

Interestingly, in Yoruba, the word "oyinbo" includes all non-Africans and the word (which has escaped me for the moment) for "people" also means all non-oyinbo. But of course there is not the same history of oppression there.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 12:24 PM

Nonliterate societies very often call themselves "The People" and everybody else "the others."


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 12:26 PM

Wogs, perhaps, as I've heard in British Isles?

I agree with Charmion. I've never see anyone without color -- they'd be invisible.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 12:41 PM

I was in a university chapter of the NAACP in Kansas in 1964-65 and watched/listened to the 'colored'/black/Negro...etc. members argue intensely among themselves about what they ought to be called.

I stayed out of it.

The debate included complaints that "African American" was too long and didn't really cover all 'people of that general color', and that 'Black' wasn't really accurate, and that 'Negro' was loaded and and too easy to mispronounce...etc. What they called each other was... 'interesting'.

The appropriateness of any term is dependent on who is using it in what context and with what intent.... but too many want to pin down one term or another as THE one, and can't be bothered to analyze context.

I agree that People of Color is awkward and stilted for most situations, but I have seen times when it exactly covered the situation.

I 'tend' to favor Black & White for informal use when only the two ethnic groups are involved, but African American for formal occasions... and sometimes I just avoid using a term...


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 12:45 PM

I "never"use this term, nor any term or word when refering to groups of people that I understand would have a negative connotation. And, yes, I frequently call people to task when they use similar words or terms.

In my community, the term would be considered offensive, and it is rarely heard.


Amazingly, it was not until a few years ago that I camevto know that the word Eskimo is considered offensive to some of the nortnern peoples. I was very embarassed when I used it, and was advised of this-I thanked the person for letting me know. (I really don't know how that one escaped me).


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 12:59 PM

So are the words "squaw" and "papoose."

"Chink Peak" out here has been re-named "Chinese Peak" even though the Chinese guy who used to own it and who is buried on it called it "Chink Peak" (there's a pavilion in a local park named for him). The land ended up in the hands of USFS and they changed the name.

As a chap said to once, "Please don't call be a 'Native American.' Anyone born here is that. Call me an Indian or better, a Potawatomi. Better yet, call me Don, because that's my name."

Has anyone ever heard if there's been a flap over Conrad's novel, "The Nigger of the Narcissus"?


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:05 PM

a self-chosen designation to make a contrast with "white people."

I suspect that as long as the dominant (racist?) white culture persists in imposing on these people a status as an (inferior?) group apart that persons of color will want to make that contrast.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:08 PM

I am reminded by a post above of the well-meaning American journalist who said to the visiting President of the Republic of South Africa, "As an African American, Mr Mandela, what do you think of...?"

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:34 PM

I recall that in my birth community, where no blacks resided, folks commonly calledc young devious kids pikininis or buggers. I dont believe there was offense intended - but things have changed and people now know better. There was also a word for brazil nuts, using the "n" word that is no longer used. Local lobster fishermen used to call their smooth black steel trap haulers the "n" head- thankfully, the term is never heard any more.

Below are some local First Nations terms, which may differ from those used in the USA.
Canadian terms 


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:41 PM

"Why would one think that "people of color" implies that standard "people" are white? It counterbalances "white people," not "people."

Because it marks everybody-who-isn't-white as being in one category, and whites in the other, unmarked one; the impression is People are white, people *of color* are need to be specified because they aren't, quite, people.

I'm wouldn't start calling myself Native American, though I probably have more Cherokee than some of my fellow-citizens have African...

Oddly enough, as a kid, I wasn't American, I was European, as in, the Europeans among us tonight are from the United States.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:44 PM

A better idea how about just people. I don't classify my fishing friends as black or asian or anything else. They don't classify me as white. I call them my fishing buddies as they do me.. People is a great term


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 01:50 PM

I worked with this man Donald Nam-Ki-K'am Wewenis in 1970, at the plant referred to in the obit., though I never heard his tribal name. He and a fellow Kickapoo, Virgil, used to use "Indian humor" to tease other workers, twisting prejudicial remarks into appeasing funny stories. Don & Virgil were so good at this that they won over folks who had stereotypes embedded in their language & thoughts. They were also excellent workers & the best fork-lift drivers in 7 counties.

I wish I could tell the world, using their examples, what ethnic differences were really all about.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:30 PM

Is a white South African citizen of the U. S. an African American?


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:33 PM

You mean a white   South African citizen of the U. S? *grin*... I suppose so.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:36 PM

It all depends on what you mean by "is."

And word games (what we're playing here, no matter how significant they may seem to many) quickly become a waste of time.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: GUEST,Fl!p Breskin
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 02:47 PM

I've been preferring the term Global Majority...


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 03:32 PM

I fall within three of the categories referred to above:

Although my line of descent on both sides of the family is
from one and another (and another and another, counting back generation by generation) part of Germany . . .

I am native American, inasmuch as I was born and raised
in Minnesota.
and
I am African American, in the sense that EVERY American is
descended from African forebears, going back to about the
time of "Lucy" and before.
and
I'm a person of color--that is, sort of a mottled pinkish
color.

But none of those categorizations means a diddly-damn about
who I REALLY am.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 04:41 PM

You're native American, but are you Native American?

Both? You may be African American, but are you African American?

> But none of those categorizations means a diddly-damn about
who I REALLY am.

Maybe to you. But ask some Native Americans and African Americans what they think of one of the "others" appropriating their name.

BTW, is "Washington Redskins" really racist?

Depends on which Native Americans you ask.

The better question is, how many were angered by the name until they heard they were supposed to be?


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 05:23 PM

In an Anthropology class at the University of Washington some years ago, I was told that "Race" is a sort of cobbled up concept that doesn't really mean a helluva lot.

I'm a person of color if you regard a sort of a sallow, pinky-beige skin "color." My ancestors came from the Northern climes—my father's grandfather came from Scotland and my mother's parents came from Sweden. My skin (inherited from my forbearers) is light, to enable me to absorb as much vitamin D as possible as a result of relatively weak sunlight and long winters.

A person whose ancestors grew up in equatorial climes have dark skin (high melanin content) in order to shield them from ultraviolet rays and a possibility of vitamin D overdose.

Being a person "of color" (a meaningless expression) gives an indication of where most of one's ancestors come from. It is (sorry, pete 7*s) an evolutionary adaptation to the environment one's ancestors lived in.

Same with size and shape of noses. In a cold, dry climate, one needs fairly extensive nasal passages to moisten air before inhaling it into the lungs. In warmer, wetter climates, much less so. Hence, the size and shape of noses.

The epicanthic fold (so-called "slant eyes" of Asians) evolved (there's that word again!) to sheild the eyes from glare off ice and snow. Asians and "Eskimos"—and their descendants, including American "Indians," evolved in the northern climates of Asia (Siberia and such). "Native" Americans crossed from Asia on the ice to what is now Alaska and spread south to populate North and South America. You often see a bit of epicanthic fold in the eyes of Scandinavians. The epicanthic fold has almost disappeared from the eyes of Native Americans, particularly those who have lived for a long time in southern climes.

And if we go back far enough, all our ancestors came from Africa.

Or so I was informed in Anthropology classes….

Don Firth

P. S. Some years ago I worked with a young woman of African-American descent named Rosetta. She was one of the most truly beautiful women I have ever seen—along with being highly intelligent. We often took our coffee breaks together.

What did I call her? "Rosetta." I often wonder where she is now. (Sigh….)


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 05:33 PM

""Race" is a sort of cobbled up concept that doesn't really mean a helluva lot."

It sure seems to have some type of meaning in some countries, from a social, economic, and legal perspective, anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 05:37 PM

And now I am being told that you can't even BE racist against whites by definition, if you're an American black... haven't we heard this somewhere before?

(Once all the Germans were warlike, and mean / But that couldn't happen again / We taught them a lesson in 1918, and they've hardly bothered us since then...)


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 05:55 PM

> And now I am being told that you can't even BE racist against whites by definition.

Brings back memories. I heard that back in Black Panther days, around 1969.

The argument was that racism is irrational. So if you hate people of a particular race irrationally, you're a racist.

But if you're black and hate whites, that's perfectly rational. And you're not a racist.

Instead, you're a reasonable, reasoning human being. Since whites hate blacks irrationally, whites are obviously unreasonable and unreasoning. So they're more primitive than reasonable people, who should hate whites for their irrational hatred.

Once again, Humpty wins.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:38 PM

Why don't they listen to themselves? They sound like racist jackasses.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:37 PM

I use the term, "People of the Global Majority" when referring to people of color these days. It's accurate!!!

I have heard the terms, "Melanin-Challenged" and "Melanin-Deprived."

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:41 PM

"People of the Global Majority" 

China and/or India?


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: mg
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:59 PM

I don't think all our ancestors came from Africa. Not sure how the Neanderthals developed but it was northern and people in most of Africa do not have their genes, or so I am told. I think I would have a pretty high Neanderthal gene pool... Irish from western Ireland and Basques are said to have the highest..last I heard. But I would think Siberians etc. would be very high, Laplanders etc...who knows. Everyone get tested.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:02 PM

It's a phrase used with specific connotations in specific situations. All the jibber jabber about what things used to be like in My Day or in Days of Yore and in My Country or in That Country I Once Went To, along with all manner of the It's Not Fair and It's Not Logical is unhelpful.

"Person of Color" means "non-White", in a place and in a discussion where "White" is believed to mean something reasonably consistent.

The alternative to "Person of Color" vs. "White" would be "non-White" vs. "White." I think the latter is the one that would truly imply, as Mrrzy said (of the former), white = normal.

The proposed alternatives of either distinguishing people more finely or not distinguishing them at all are not helpful because the distinction between precisely TWO groups is the intention of phrase when and where it is being used.

Perhaps there is another alternative -though I don't see why "we" would be the ones to prescribe it here - but it would have to retain the useful aspects of the current term.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:20 PM

Whilst it is laudible to be able to get into a position where colour makes no difference, out there in the real world discrimination does happen, and it's felt more keenly on the receiving end than those of us who haven't had a back-catalogue of it can truly appreciate. Yet at the same time some people from these communities have become excessively sensitive, seeing racial oppression in any form of criticism, whether it is there or not. Too much political correctness confuses the matter further: and that is what much of this argument is about. It reminds me of the way the Noddy books have been rewritten with Goblins as the baddies. Maybe that's the solution here, to use a term which is utterly unrepresentative of any group identification and therefore without baggage.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:31 PM

Here's a real life example of the phrase "of color".

A few months ago, a social worker wrote a column in my newspaper about prostitution in our town. His last sentence was the sad comment that the typical new prostitute is a 13-year-old girl of color.

When you submit such a column, you are allowed a certain number of words, and your writing must be succinct and have an impact.

She might be African-American, Central American, Asian or a mix of those or a mix of those with white. He's got a word limit, so he said she's 'of color'.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:38 PM

With a little ingenuity, almost any designation can be "shown" to be misleading, patronizing, inaccurate, and therefore "offensive."

That's language for ya. There are bigger things to worry about, like how people are actually treated, regardless of what they're called.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:47 PM

According to everything I've read, the African genesis Homo Erectus spread out over the world and predates the appearance of Neanderthal man by many tens of thousands of years. Neanderthal developed from Homo Erectus and is an offspring thereof.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: olddude
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 10:22 PM

All of us Americans are mutts and our ancestors married all kinds of people. Anyone using any slurs in our country is probably insulting themselves if they looked back to their own history.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 11:12 PM

Our ancestors DID originate in Africa... here is a general outline

A time-lapse video map(in German, but easy to follow by color


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 11:52 PM

She might be African-American, Central American, Asian or a mix of those or a mix of those with white. He's got a word limit, so he said she's 'of color'.

leeneia, that may be true in that case (I haven't seen the article), but generally someone says that because they are talking about a range of "non-White" people. "Person of Color" is not a term of happenstance or convenience, it is a deliberate usage.

The implication, especially in a social worker's discourse, is that White people in that society are less disadvantaged. You can debate the fine points of whether that is true or not, but that's the distinction that's being made, and it's precisely when someone would want to use the term "person of color." The only other thing they could say that would have those exact same connotations is "non-White"—which because of its negation doesn't sound as good.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 12:19 AM

The terms "people of color," "person of color," etc., have a rich history:

From The American Gazetteer by Jedediah Morse (Boston: S. Hall [et al.], 1797):
In 1786 the numbers were 16,167 whites; 838 free people of color, and 62,115 negroes.
...
The small provision farms called Conacos, fall generally to the lot of the poorer colonists, or most commonly people of color, or freed people.
...
Before the late revolution, there were in these parishes about 42,000 white people, 44,000 free people of color, and 600,000 slaves.

From A History of Methodism in Alabama by Anson West (Nashville: Anson West, 1803), page 598:
In the list of the appointments of the Tennessee Conference made November, 1831, and made then for the next year, is found the following:

"Thomas M. King, Missionary to the people of color in Madison and Limestone Counties, North Alabama.
Gilbert D. Taylor, Missionary to the people of color in Franklin and Lawrence Counties, North Alabama."


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: PHJim
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 01:24 AM

"> And now I am being told that you can't even BE racist against whites by definition.

Brings back memories. I heard that back in Black Panther days, around 1969.

The argument was that racism is irrational. So if you hate people of a particular race irrationally, you're a racist.

But if you're black and hate whites, that's perfectly rational. And you're not a racist.

Instead, you're a reasonable, reasoning human being. Since whites hate blacks irrationally, whites are obviously unreasonable and unreasoning. So they're more primitive than reasonable people, who should hate whites for their irrational hatred.

Once again, Humpty wins."

*********************************************************************
What does this mean? Who told you that you can't be racist against whites?
Why is it perfectly rational for blacks to hate whites and irrational for whites to hate blacks? Please explain this. It makes no sense to me.
Who makes these statements? And how do they justify them? Without further explanation, they just sound like nonsense.
The paragraph before "Once again, Humpty wins," makes the basic assumption that ALL whites hate blacks, therefore blacks are justified hating whites. This is ridiculous.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: GUEST,#
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:09 AM

The term 'person of color' could be useful in a complicated Where's Waldo poster.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 05:18 AM

It does seem to me that the term "racism" must imply that the racist is part of the part of the community that has the prevalence of power or approbation.

But the issue is complex. When does the refusal to be prejudiced morph into a foolish refusal to learn from experience?


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Ed T
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 06:25 AM

Slightly off topic, but this article links slavery to many if todays inequalities. Black certainly is linked to slavery in many former colonial locations. An interesting read.


Where slavery thrived, inequality rules today 


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Airymouse
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 08:34 AM

I offer no solution, but I am irked by "African American". Chris Stringer (Lone Survivor, for example) has established that all humans came from Africa, so if you are American, you are automatically African American. It's just a question of what route your ancestors took to get here.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:31 AM

IMHO, any designation for any of us other than 'human' is stupid, unnecessary and divisive. As several other people have noted above, my own skin color is light tan...nobody is actually white (albinos are pinkish).

Here in New Mexico, everyone who is not of Latino descent (which is also very complicated) is called an Anglo, regardless of skin tone or ethnicity.

I remember some discussion several years ago about Mr. Obama not actually being 'African-American', even though one parent was African and the other American, because he hadn't gone through 'the African-American Experience'.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:45 AM

PHJim, I wasn't making that reasoning up. As I say, it was bandied about in the US 40 years ago by self-styled Black revolutionaries who were frequently in the news. The Black Panthers were the most visible and vocal of these groups. (Their most eloquent leader, convicted rapist Eldridge Cleaver, later became a Mormon and a conservative Republican businessman.)

Fortunately, almost nobody bought the argument that it's impossible for a black person to be a "racist." But it was indeed being made and apparently still is.


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Subject: RE: BS: The term People of Color - Let's Nix
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 09:57 AM

By the way, "Humpty wins" refers to celebrity egg Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking Glass," who said, "When *I* use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more, nor less."

This remark, made by a lunatic in Looking-Glass Land, seems to sum up the intentions of people who give familiar words new meanings just to support their own political programs.

Then they insist that their new definitions are the only "real" and "rational" ones. You can't argue with such people, because they're not interested in your point of view. Not at all.

Humpty Dumpty's offhand comment has become a famous reference in politics and sociology.


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Mudcat time: 21 September 6:45 AM EDT

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