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BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation

Richard Bridge 14 Aug 14 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,Kampervan 14 Aug 14 - 10:47 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Aug 14 - 12:28 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Aug 14 - 12:30 PM
Roger the Skiffler 14 Aug 14 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,Kampervan 14 Aug 14 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Ed 14 Aug 14 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Kampervan 14 Aug 14 - 01:59 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Aug 14 - 02:02 PM
Abdul The Bul Bul 14 Aug 14 - 02:10 PM
Les in Chorlton 14 Aug 14 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,Patsy 14 Aug 14 - 02:35 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Aug 14 - 02:50 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 14 - 03:06 PM
Claire M 14 Aug 14 - 03:48 PM
Musket 14 Aug 14 - 03:54 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Aug 14 - 06:40 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Aug 14 - 07:06 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Aug 14 - 07:59 PM
GUEST,Rahere 14 Aug 14 - 08:05 PM
Bugsy 14 Aug 14 - 09:56 PM
Mr Red 15 Aug 14 - 03:22 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 14 - 04:22 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Aug 14 - 05:38 AM
mayomick 15 Aug 14 - 09:27 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 14 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Aug 14 - 10:16 AM
The Sandman 15 Aug 14 - 12:15 PM
Backwoodsman 15 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM
GUEST,MikeL2 15 Aug 14 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Aug 14 - 06:29 PM
The Sandman 16 Aug 14 - 02:48 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Aug 14 - 03:07 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Aug 14 - 03:10 AM
bubblyrat 16 Aug 14 - 05:16 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Aug 14 - 05:35 AM
akenaton 16 Aug 14 - 07:17 AM
GUEST, 16 Aug 14 - 07:18 AM
Bonzo3legs 16 Aug 14 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 16 Aug 14 - 08:10 AM
GUEST, 16 Aug 14 - 08:20 AM
Les in Chorlton 16 Aug 14 - 08:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Aug 14 - 08:46 AM
akenaton 16 Aug 14 - 09:06 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 16 Aug 14 - 10:30 AM
Les in Chorlton 16 Aug 14 - 01:46 PM
akenaton 16 Aug 14 - 02:07 PM
Ed T 16 Aug 14 - 03:51 PM
GUEST 16 Aug 14 - 07:21 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 Aug 14 - 04:44 AM
Backwoodsman 17 Aug 14 - 09:27 AM
GUEST 17 Aug 14 - 11:31 AM
Bonzo3legs 17 Aug 14 - 11:58 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 17 Aug 14 - 12:37 PM
The Sandman 17 Aug 14 - 01:07 PM
Bonzo3legs 17 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 17 Aug 14 - 01:31 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Aug 14 - 01:50 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Aug 14 - 02:09 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 17 Aug 14 - 03:06 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Aug 14 - 03:41 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Aug 14 - 03:45 PM
MGM·Lion 17 Aug 14 - 03:50 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Aug 14 - 04:11 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Aug 14 - 06:32 PM
Stanron 17 Aug 14 - 09:41 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Aug 14 - 10:22 PM
MGM·Lion 18 Aug 14 - 12:07 AM
Big Al Whittle 18 Aug 14 - 03:44 AM
MGM·Lion 18 Aug 14 - 03:54 AM
GUEST, topsie 18 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM
akenaton 18 Aug 14 - 04:21 AM
The Sandman 18 Aug 14 - 04:31 AM
Mr Red 18 Aug 14 - 05:15 AM
Richard Bridge 18 Aug 14 - 05:54 AM
GUEST 18 Aug 14 - 06:28 AM
GUEST 18 Aug 14 - 06:57 AM
Backwoodsman 18 Aug 14 - 07:56 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 18 Aug 14 - 08:30 AM
akenaton 18 Aug 14 - 01:06 PM
akenaton 18 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM
MGM·Lion 18 Aug 14 - 01:20 PM
GUEST 18 Aug 14 - 03:56 PM
Roger the Skiffler 19 Aug 14 - 05:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Aug 14 - 08:01 AM
Bonzo3legs 19 Aug 14 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 19 Aug 14 - 06:09 PM
GUEST,SByers 19 Aug 14 - 07:58 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 20 Aug 14 - 04:30 AM
Claire M 20 Aug 14 - 01:04 PM
akenaton 20 Aug 14 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,Rahere 20 Aug 14 - 03:05 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Aug 14 - 06:41 PM
Stilly River Sage 21 Aug 14 - 12:28 AM
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Lizzie Cornish 1 21 Aug 14 - 02:43 AM
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Claire M 21 Aug 14 - 09:24 AM
Ed T 21 Aug 14 - 10:49 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Aug 14 - 09:19 PM
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The Sandman 22 Aug 14 - 03:28 AM
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GUEST,Silas 22 Aug 14 - 05:06 AM
Big Al Whittle 22 Aug 14 - 08:44 AM
The Sandman 22 Aug 14 - 08:55 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Aug 14 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 22 Aug 14 - 10:21 AM
Ed T 22 Aug 14 - 10:40 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 22 Aug 14 - 11:20 AM
Ed T 22 Aug 14 - 11:28 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 22 Aug 14 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,pete from seven stars link 23 Aug 14 - 09:27 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 23 Aug 14 - 12:27 PM
The Sandman 24 Aug 14 - 06:54 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 Aug 14 - 03:58 PM
Ed T 24 Aug 14 - 05:05 PM
The Sandman 24 Aug 14 - 06:17 PM
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Big Al Whittle 24 Aug 14 - 06:27 PM
Ed T 24 Aug 14 - 07:05 PM
GUEST,Rahere 24 Aug 14 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 24 Aug 14 - 09:28 PM
Claire M 25 Aug 14 - 11:27 AM
GUEST,Patsy 25 Aug 14 - 07:01 PM
The Sandman 26 Aug 14 - 01:49 AM
Big Al Whittle 26 Aug 14 - 04:12 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Aug 14 - 04:22 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Aug 14 - 04:23 AM
GUEST, topsie 26 Aug 14 - 04:39 AM
The Sandman 26 Aug 14 - 06:35 AM
GUEST,Silas 26 Aug 14 - 06:45 AM
GUEST, topsie 26 Aug 14 - 06:56 AM
Backwoodsman 26 Aug 14 - 07:32 AM
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Musket 28 Aug 14 - 05:23 PM
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Big Al Whittle 31 Aug 14 - 08:59 AM
Musket 31 Aug 14 - 09:14 AM
The Sandman 31 Aug 14 - 12:19 PM
GUEST,Rahere 31 Aug 14 - 01:10 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 Aug 14 - 01:27 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 01 Sep 14 - 06:57 AM
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GUEST,Claire M 02 Sep 14 - 06:48 AM
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Subject: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 10:34 AM

We've all been waiting for this haven't we?

https://www.facebook.com/topic/Cliff-Richard/103753126330597?source=whfrt&position=3&trqid=6047423694724494421


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 10:47 AM

Link not working Richard. Intrigued by the reference though.

K/van


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 12:28 PM

Here is a blue clicky https://www.facebook.com/topic/Cliff-Richard/103753126330597?source=whfrt&position=3&trqid=6047423694724494421


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 12:30 PM

And another

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/14/cliff-richard-home-searched-police-sexual-abuse-claims


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 01:44 PM

I hear he's just released a new single:
"Allegations, just allegations..."

RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 01:45 PM

Another allegation - I do hope that it's not true.

Strange how the press seemed to know all about it though, helicopter in the sky, lots of cameras etc..

K/van


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 01:53 PM

Strange how the press seemed to know all about it though

Why? It was a block of penthouse apartments. Anyone who lived or worked there could have 'phoned up a newsdesk to let them know.

Or would you prefer that it's some sort of conspiracy?

Try Occam's Razor


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 01:59 PM

No, not suggesting conspiracy, just wondering how they knew. As you say, perhaps another resident phoned them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:02 PM

BBC had a helicopter overhead as the police arrived, so there must have been a tip-off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:10 PM

Golly! So unexpected.
Al


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:13 PM

Apparently Sooty and Basil Brush have gone abroad


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:35 PM

I hope it isn't true because he has quite a following in which die hard Cliff fans go and spend their money on a regular basis. A friend of mine goes on an annual pilgrimage to every one when it is held in London because of the way he acknowledges his fans when he is there. He isn't my cup of tea but I hope isn't part of a witch hunt for yet another remote living Peter Pan type celebrity and Charity worker.

It isn't unexpected to me that he along with anyone else around that time would be questioned as things are at the moment but I do question why it takes so long for these things to come to light unless there are still an awful lot of people out there covering up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 02:50 PM

very sad...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:06 PM

The closest I ever heard was the reason Sue Barker kicked him out - she had a latex skirt prepared, talced and polished, and when she got back it had been tried on. He was the only one with a key to the room.
But a minor rubber fetish is a mile from this. But it was about the time this is alleged.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Claire M
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:48 PM

Hiya!! Oh dear. Apart from 'Devil Woman' I can take/leave Cliff, but my flatmate is completely in love w/ him, she has been all her life. If it is true it'll take her a couple of yrs to get all her pix down.

If it's someone you've held in high regard for your whole life, someone who has always cheered you up when needed, what do you do then ??. Do you take your pix down or not?? Do you carry on listening to them/not ??

I also wonder why it takes so long for this to be uncovered, & fail to see the point of investigating somebody as old as he is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Musket
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 03:54 PM

Makes you wonder how Sooty got his name...

Naw, Cliff is a Christian and according to at least one holy member of Mudcat, Christians "don't do that sort of thing ."

Of course, we have no idea what "that sort of thing" is.

Speculation is better than evolution when it comes to growing legs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 06:40 PM

Actually his first live R&R album (with the Shads) is pretty good. And to my eternal shame I quite like both "Travellin' Light" and "Shrine on the Second Floor".


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:06 PM

i feel no shame - Cliff's songs have helped me put food on the table. as far as the music industry is concerned - he is great product. as one european publisher said to me years ago - we're big -we own the EMI songbook, that's all the Cliff Richard stuff.

his sustained success is a great achievement.

from stories, i have heard - he has sailed rather close to the wind for a guy with his squeaky clean image. but i have never heard of anything criminal


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 07:59 PM

Why don't we all just wait and see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 08:05 PM

Another aspect of what's happened is that the Police, in leaking his name and putting a spokesman up behind it, has just driven a coach and horses with ostlers, footmen and coach dogs included through the recommendations of the Leveson Commission, which only allowed them to do what they have just done in naming him if he presents a real and imminent danger to the public.
I think Cliff might be about to become even richer at the expense of South Yorkshire Police.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Bugsy
Date: 14 Aug 14 - 09:56 PM

I'm with you, Steve.

CHeers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 03:22 AM

one more of the perils of being famous and rich. Legal blackmail.

If only I had something on Eric Idle (nudge nudge, wink,wink) but the worst he did at school was to be one of the smokers' club (strictly verboten) and brew elderberry wine (ditto). But as he was much older than me, maybe I didn't get to hear all the gossip. Apart from the day he left when the school did not cover themselves in glory, which is why he never mentions the place, and I don't in sympathy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 04:22 AM

i would be interested to know what reason Cliff had for visiting elm tree guest house on a number of occasions, especially as it was visited by other people subsequently concvited of paedophilia, i find it suspiciuos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 05:38 AM

doesn't sound like a resident of the flats with a tip off. there was a tv helicopter in place to film the police cars arriving in convoy. you can't help thinking - the police would surely not do this in a speculative action. they must be expecting to find something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: mayomick
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 09:27 AM

It seems odd to me that GSS is the only one on this thread who is aware of the existence of the Elm Park guest house and Cliff Richard's visiting there. Not so odd I suppose when even Sir Cliff's publicist Lisa Davies said today that she was not previously aware of the allegations of child abuse against Sir Cliff .
The Daily Mail wrote about Elm House last year without naming the pop stars alleged to have visited the guest house ,but a google search quickly turned up Sir Cliff's name:
"During a police raid on a property in central London last month, detectives seized a list of names of high-profile alleged visitors to the Elm Guest House in Barnes, South-West London — a gay-friendly establishment, and one where under-age rent boys and children from the Grafton Close home were reportedly brought to have sex with adult men.
The list includes a number of senior MPs, a high-ranking policeman, a leading tycoon, figures from the National Front and Sinn Fein, an official of the Royal Household, an MI5 officer, two pop stars and the traitorous Soviet spy Anthony Blunt.
Cyril Smith, the late Liberal MP for Rochdale, has already been named as a regular at the guest house, where he allegedly met teenage rent boys when the homosexual age of consent was 21.
The guest house has also been linked to a now-defunct Tory fringe group that promoted homosexual rights."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2272253/Timebomb-Elm-Guest-House-Pop-stars-bishop-politician-appear-list-seized-police-


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 09:50 AM

yes mayomick , i was surprised, that no one seemed aware of the existence of elm park guest house


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 10:16 AM

Whatever the facts and truth,
and many of us have been aware of various bizarre 'rumours' for a long long time...;

Sir Cliff [or should that be Lady Harriet ?] has certainly had plenty of time
to prepare for any legal ramifications of this inevitable eventuality of shaming public exposure and formal allegations.

Won't stop me listening to his classic vintage chart hits though.
He's still the 3rd or 4th best British rock 'n roll singer ever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 12:15 PM

"He's still the 3rd or 4th best British rock 'n roll singer ever."
imo hes behind john lennon, eric burdon,mick jagger,long john baldry, paul maccartney, keith relf[ cliff hes seventh rate].


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM

None of whom were Rock 'n' Roll singers.

Top of the British R&R crop was Johnny Kidd, IMHO, closely followed by CR and Marty Wilde, then Vince Eager. You can take your pick after that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,MikeL2
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 02:43 PM

Hi
<" Why don't we all just wait and see. ">

I agree Steve.

I though in British justice you are innocent until proved guilty.

Looks like in this instance Sir Cliff is being branded as guilty already.

Cliff's music is not my cup of tea but I do not dispute his contribution to the music scene.

IMHO He recorded the first really Rock & Roll song by a British artist when he recorded Move It with the Drifters.

Lets just see what happens eh??

Cheers

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Aug 14 - 06:29 PM

..for what it's worth - my top 5 UK vintage Rock'n'Rollers.

Billy Fury, Johnny Kidd, Vince Taylor, Cliff Richard, Marty Wilde.....

Billy, when he started out, was the most authentic at aping US Rockabilly.
Cliff had the best writers, producers, and backing band.
Vince and Johnny were the real deal rockers [much respected by 1970s punks].
Marty, well he was one of the better also-rans along with Tommy Steele & Shane Fenton.
Most of the rest of UK produced 50s R'n'R was just cack.


Now back to talking about alleged historic abusive celebrity degenerates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 02:48 AM

I though in British justice you are innocent until proved guilty."
correct, the reality is that the media[in this case the net] name people before they are tried,the same thing happens all the time, some years ago in my area there was a local murder case a woman called sophie du plantier was murdered and a suspect who was never charged and who was therefore innocent, has had his life ruined by being named.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 03:07 AM

Good Soldier Schweik - talking of British rock singers - said:

"hes behind john lennon, eric burdon,mick jagger,long john baldry, paul maccartney, keith relf"

Not a very stimulating list! To a man, singing in American accents! Or, trying too!

I remember speaking to Eric Burdon, in 1964, and being struck by is rich - and strong - Geordie accent. I was even more struck - an hour or so later - when that accent totally disappeared to be replaced by a voice that sounded somewhere between John Lee Hooker and Muddy Waters.

Long John Baldry's singing voice was embarrassingly phoney.

And, Mick Jagger! Dreadful!

If we are going to quote British singers who use American accents - and most of them do! - then Paul Rodgers - to my ears - does it without sounding phoney.( the opposite is Elton John!)

Cliff - as he developed - again to my ears - did adopt more of an English sound and that is to his credit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 03:10 AM

Certainly wouldn't argue against Billy, PFR - he was a great singer and sick-makingly good-looking. RIP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 05:16 AM

Did you know that "Travelling Light" was released in Spain as "The Light That Travels " ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 05:35 AM

Just been reading about the Belgian genocide in Congo area, at the time "owned" by King Leopold II of Belgium - 12-15 million murdered was it?? which rather puts things in perspective about the media's current obsession with an alledged dark side to Cliff Richard, and no doubt others in the future!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:17 AM

Child abuse should always be exposed, no matter who commits the offence....no point in contrasting it with genocide.

Apparently there was a homosexual sex ring operating from the Elm Park address, and Cliff Richard was a frequent visitor. The ring specialised in young boys, and contained some very unsavoury characters.

This seems to be on a completely different level from what we have seen in the Rolf Harris case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:18 AM

With so many previous 'celebrities' having been charged, if Cliff Richard has anything to hide he has had plenty of time to make sure there is nothing incriminating in any of his properties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:08 AM

I will contrast it with genocide which is of great consequence - if he has touched somebody up, I'm sure it was with his or her consent, be realistic they are usually up for it - therefore of no consequence, and it only seems to be time wasting PC idiots in this country that have nothing better to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:10 AM

The only thing that the police could hope to find is dodgy porn on a hard-drive, and, as Cliff would have considered a police raid a possibility, the chances of finding anything would be zero!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:20 AM

As it is unlikely that searching the property will uncover anything, the purpose of the raid (and the cameras and helicopters) would seem to be maximum publicity in order to encourage complainants to come forward.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:41 AM

Akenaton -

"Apparently there was a homosexual sex ring operating from the Elm Park address, and Cliff Richard was a frequent visitor. The ring specialised in young boys, and contained some very unsavoury characters."

Links to evidence by anychance?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 08:46 AM

The Times reckons that as well. if it is, its wrong. after all its a bit like putting an ad in the paper, and saying -anybody gotanything we can stick this bloke with.

every police officer, prison guard, teacher, doctor, nurse in the country probably has somebody somwhere hating their guts over a perceived injustice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 09:06 AM

You are quite correct Les, there is little hard evidence available, as much seems to have been concealed by the "establishment", but there is plenty in Mayomicks link which is worrying.

If you Google Elm Park Guest House, there are links to previous investigations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 10:30 AM

Wherever this investigation leads - the outcome of any trials, and sentencing if found guilty.

This now just about ends all hope for the search for an archive uncut widescreen print and special edition Blu-ray
[restoring all deleted scenes] of "Expresso Bongo"

One of the lost 'holy grails' for serious aficionados of 1950s British lurid Rock'n'Roll era culture.

This recent irrational hysterical knee-jerk erasing of convicted celebrity sex offenders from cultural history benefits nobody.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 01:46 PM

Thanks Ake,I wasn't being 'smart' i was just curious because I hade heard of the Elm Park Guest House i other contexts


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 02:07 PM

Thank you Les, you are one of the most civil members, and I didn't think you were being "smart" at all.

PFR.....I saw "Expresso Bongo" several times when it first came out...thought it was terrific....specially the topless dancing girls! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Ed T
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 03:51 PM

An interesting perspevtive on his music career from the Guardian, 2009.

The Guardian, 2009 


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 14 - 07:21 PM

Now the cops have turned on the Beeb wanting to know how they learned of the raid as nobody on the Force told them...
Me, I reckon Caversham might know summat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 04:44 AM

I used to have the Expresso Bongo EP in subliminal mono, there was a great instrumental from the then Drifters - did Hank have "that sound" yet - Fender Strat/Meazzi Echo/Vox AC15??


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 09:27 AM

I think you'll find it was a Vox AC30. I seem to recollect he also used a Baby Binson, sometimes on its own, sometimes with the Meazzi Echomatic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 11:31 AM

Further change of lione from the cops - erm, we did tell you, but expected you to keep it schtumm. wft?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 11:58 AM

"I think you'll find it was a Vox AC30. I seem to recollect he also used a Baby Binson, sometimes on its own, sometimes with the Meazzi Echomatic."

Yes I think you are right, I hadn't realised that the changeover to AC30 was in 1958, and I never knew that there was a one speaker AC30 before they changed to 2 x 12" celestion blues - I have 2 of these in a cabinet which I may use one of these days!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 12:37 PM

So.. basically then.. even if Cliff is proven to be the evil bastard spawn of Satan;
and sent down to roast in Hell for all eternity.
We are all still rational & mature enough grown ups
to continue cherishing his old classic pop hits with The Shadows......

Despite the inevitable mob mentality social pressure to burn all his records
and erase his complete existence from all collective cultural memories...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 01:07 PM

i think the shadows are naff and cliff even naffer, however it does not alter the fact that his name[cliff] should not have been mentioned before a trial.the shadows were technically ok but just fecking boring, start comparing them to hendrix or to jazz musicians or blues musicians they are soulless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 01:24 PM

"We are all still rational & mature enough grown ups
to continue cherishing his old classic pop hits with The Shadows"

Of course, and bloody good records they were too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 01:31 PM

So then Good Soldier Schweik, no point asking you how many Adam Faith and Boby Vee records
you got in your collection ????

You say 'naff' like that's a bad thing ???

You don't quite get the hang of 'pop' really, do you ...........????


Mind you, Hendrix weren't too bad when he made the effort to knock the odd 3.00 minute pop single like "Fire" together !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 01:50 PM

"the shadows were technically ok but just fecking boring, start comparing them to hendrix or to jazz musicians or blues musicians they are soulless."

Well, a concertina-squeezer should know all about 'fecking boring' and 'soulless'. Describes a concertina perfectly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 02:09 PM

No it doesnt it doesnt it doesnt it doesnt it doesnt

Yore a beest Bakwudzmn & I HATE you...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 03:06 PM

I was never a fan of The Shadows, at the time, but - in the UK they were hugely influential.
Indeed, they were a great way to get into rock guitar.
The lead and rhythm parts weren't that difficult to at least work out the notes.
But, as I said not my cup of tea!
And, I hated their silly dance moves! Far too twee.

When the Dutch rock band Focus emerged around 1970, I remember thinking, "Now, That's what the Shadows should have been doing.
But there again, I bet Focus's wonderful guitar player Jan Ackerman had listened to Hank quite a bit!

Sylvia


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 03:41 PM

The Shadows were 'of their time' and, at that time, they were as good as anything else and better than most. But time moves on and things change. What was good yesterday tends, with the passage of time, to become passé, that's the way it's always been and always will be. It's absolutely pointless comparing artists of one musical era skill-wise with those of subsequent eras, because styles change, skills improve and everything moves on.

I began playing guitar in 1961, and was in my first band in 1962, just before the Beatles broke. I remember, up to that point, being a rabid Shadows fan and playing shedloads of their stuff but, with the advent of Beatlemania and the 'Liverpool sound', the world changed for ever. We all abandoned the Shadows/Ventures style and moved on to the dry, R&B sound that we were hearing on record and the radio - a different style demanding different skills. And it's turned many times since, each time bringing new sounds, different skills and changing tastes.

Long may it be so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 03:45 PM

Oh BTW, Michael, Regarding concertinas, I was making a point - that one man's meat is another man's poison - not trying to start a 'my I musical likes are better than yours' type of argument.

And I positively refuse to hate you! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 03:50 PM

Aaaaaaaahhhhh — I bet you say that to all the boys!.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 04:11 PM

Oh no, there are some whom I hate with a vengeance! But you're not one. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 06:32 PM

I saw Jet Harris do a gig about five years before he snuffed it. H e was terrific. I went out and bought a bass guitar the day after. he was an inspirational musician.

A Dutch tribute band had come over specially to see him. they had copies of all the old vinyl albums.

still, I got no axe to grind with Dick. I think he's a smashing musician.

however i thought i'd like to say a word in Jet's defence, and disagree with him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Stanron
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 09:41 PM

Is it true that paedophilia is a disease? You catch it by being a victim and later you pass it on by being a perpetrator?

If so, do you think it possible to break that link and eradicate the disease?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 10:22 PM

its a bit of a misnomer really. after all a bibliophile doesn't wasn't to misuse books and want to screw books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 12:07 AM

No, not a misnomer: "phil or "phile", as prefix or suffix, imply a lover -- a member of a philharmonic choir loves harmony; a bibliophile loves books; a paedophile loves young people, (while a paediatrician treats their ailments)... from Greek*.

≈M≈

*"Philia (φιλία philía) is "mental" love. It means affectionate regard or friendship in both ancient and modern Greek." Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 03:44 AM

I'm not sure I would describe a desire to sexually abuse, coupled with a willingness to kill to avoid detection could as an affectionate regard, friendship or love.

That's the source of my unease. You live near Soham Mike - would you call Ian Huntley a lover of children.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 03:54 AM

Yes -- perversely!

Words acquire overtones thru usage, notoriously. Paedophilia has unfortunately evolved to mean an unhealthy love or desire.

That's just how language works -- it has a will of its own.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 04:17 AM

Some unfortunate misunderstandings have arisen through words acquiring meaning in this way. "Abuse" covers bullying, physical attacks, verbal attacks ... but these days, if people hear the word "abuse", many of them will unthinkingly assume that it is "sexual abuse".


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 04:21 AM

Surely this particular point concerns about the use of the word "love", not the word "paedophile"
Its of course perfectly normal to like/love small children, without being sexually attracted to them, some people "love" their dogs and cats

I would say paedophiles were "sexually orientated" towards pre pubescent children and as such, could be said to suffer from a psychological abnormality.
We used to call such things "perversion" before we were overtaken by political correctness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 04:31 AM

al , i was talking about the shadows as a group ,not jet harris as a solo artist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 05:15 AM

innocent until proven guilty
the whole point of legal blackmail is that it is known to the informant that the whiff of a scandal is enough. A powerful lever.

Once the message is public it hangs around, despite any denials, or acquittal. Elton John had enough money to take the mendacious Sun (not a newspaper) all the way to the High Court and won. Anyone with less money might have to roll over and do nothing.

The squeeky clean image of Sir Cliff is no longer clean, images have no correlation to law, or even justice.

Innocent only in the eyes of the law. "Not Proven" in the law of images.

sadly this is also the price of fame. He is a target because he has money. And because there is now a question mark.

The BBC have a lot of questions to answer. They used blackmail to get the permission to film. They had the information, they promised not to broadcast as soon as they heard, they didn't need to film to honour that promise. Call it astute news-gathering all you want. It was also blackmail.
J'accuse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 05:54 AM

Thank goodness nobody has yet asserted that Rod Stewart can sing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 06:28 AM

Ian Huntley flagged up on another count, though, Al: he wanted to study alchemy in clink. That has a history of child abuse associated with the dark side of it, because the early alchemists wanted to make it difficult for their rivals: in this instance, all that was known is that the next step of the work was "The Massacre of the Innocents", which was first recorded as the defence of Joan of Ark's Lieutenant-General Gilles de Rais for the mass-murder of at least 80 (per the skulls), 800 (per his confession) and possibly as many as 2500 (per demographic figures) children outside Nantes between 1435 and 1440. What he was actually after was improving the quality of gunpowder for cannonry, but no matter, he walked that path. And before anyone says it's nonsense, the Drew Professor of the Humanities in the Department of the History of Science at Johns Hopkins University has been successfully reproducing the work over the past couple of years, and the entire Project Newton experiment was started after some remarkable successes by a body studying the Elixir of Life, specifically opening an entire new field in oncology. It's the Royal Society who've got it wrong, throwing out the baby of what gave them birth with the bathwater of the superstition and error which we are somewhat specialists in: when they portray an image of science springing fully-formed from the ground in the 1670s, they omit to tell you that Newton wrote twice as much on alchemy as he did on physics, and that his work and Leibnitz was predicated in van Helmont's, which was sparked by an alchemical experiment disproving the four-element model which had held since Greek times. Van Helmont's alchemical adept was Nicholas de Cerclaers, the neighbour who inspired the Breughels in their works on the subject, based around the very subject I've just discussed.
Nor was Huntley alone in this in modern times. The Belgian child-murderer Marc Dutroux was managed as a snitch in a car-theft ring by a number of gendarmes who were also members of Abraxas, a subsect of Crowley's satanic OTO specialising in child abuse: the Thames Torso case was part of the work of their brother Voudon organisation, specialists in African black magick. The original Templar Abraxas is part of the mediaeval thinking in this domain, and again walked that path, it is thought.

That is some of the reality. Other parts of it, we should recall, were the background to the Dunblane shootings, which showed that Belgium is not alone in this practice riddling high society and politics. To what extent this all interacts is hard to know, because we're dealing with minds so sick nobody should be asked to study them. In Belgium, it certainly interacts with the top of the Roman Church, the way pressure brought to bear by the Adrienssens cover-up found they had all the buttons to push right to hand.

Does this involve Cliff, though? He rightly complains that his right to a presumption of innocence has been radically abused by the Police, to an extent which should make any judge in his right mind throw any case out before it even reaches him, rightly or wrongly: this is still Life on Mars policing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 06:57 AM

One aspect the BBC is being studiously silent about is the charge from Cliff and South Yorkshire police that they misused the information the Police supplied them with to sensationalise the search. It became the overall coverage of the day, almost to the exclusion of some very serious world affairs, and the refusal to account for the action shows not only a continuation of the cover-ups of the 1960s this may be part of, but also a refusal to accept the recommendations of the Leveson Commission into the relationships between the Press and the Police. It furthermore demonstrates that the Press cannot be self-regulating as it insists.
Part of this is, of course, the absence of top management in the BBC Trust. Designed to be a toothless organisation from the very start - I recall protesting the fact on the BBC columns, something which got me banned from there, the use of industry insiders put the writing on the wall - it has been further enfeebled by the failure to appoint a new Chairman after Chris Patten resigned at the start of May. The post is currently in the care of the Vice Chair, Diane Coyle, whose husband just happens to be Rory Cellan-Jones, a BBC News technology journalist. His blog's latest entry is rather revealing, as it shows how his son has a different information-gathering network from his own and his wife's, a network which is less susceptible to massage and management, and shows that the Establishment (and you don't get much more Establishment than Acting Chair of the BBC Trust, member of the Competition Commission until its closure in April, time she's retasking as Professor of Economics at Manchester, having followed an Oxford PPE with a Harvard Doctorate in Economics and a couple of years in HM Treasury) has its eyes on controlling that too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 07:56 AM

"Thank goodness nobody has yet asserted that Rod Stewart can sing."

Oh fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck! I'm utterly distraught that I find myself in agreement with Flashman (or do I mean Bunter?).


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 08:30 AM

Funny you guys should say this - I always thought Rod Stewart would make a good trad folk singer...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 01:06 PM

Snap...PFR. I also hear something special in his voice and delivery.

Same thing with Sting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 01:11 PM

Sting the folkie


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 01:20 PM

Re: penultimate and antepenultimate posts: First song Rod Stewart learned to play when bought his first guitar was "Takes a worried man to sing a worried song" [Wikipedia] -- just like the rest of us of about that age!

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Aug 14 - 03:56 PM

Well, it starts to get juicy. The Leveson Commission worked for Parliament, the Home Office Select Committee in particular, and Keith Vaz, the Chair of ther Committtee, has hust called for the Police and BBC to present their explanations by Friday. The BBC has replied "The BBC does not name its sources, nor is it appropriate to go into detail around editorial processes...The BBC agreed to follow normal journalistic practice and not to publish a story that might jeopardise a police inquiry." The Police seems to have risen to a trawl, a BBC reporter "who made it clear he knew of the existence of an investigation...it was agreed that the reporter would be notified of the date of the house search in return for delaying publication of any of the facts." Which did not happen.

What the BBC has forgotten is that they have their new Trust Chairman has to renegotiate their licence fee, and the DCMS is having difficulty finding anyone wanting to take the poisoned chalice on. Difficulty? I'd say it's just become impossible. I revise my opinion from Cliff becoming very rich indeed at the BBC's expense to Cliff becoming the next Chairman of the Trust, with an agenda which will not be at all pleasant for those concerned.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 05:37 AM

Wasn't there an allegation (in Hank's biography?) that Jet Harris left the Shadows because Cliff stole his girlfriend?

RtS


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 08:01 AM

yes the girl he sang lessons in love with the young ones. it was jet's wife, I believe. Carol something....

jet made the allegation.

The Shadows final concert on Sky Arts to night. Summer Holiday on ITV3 at the weekend.

I wish the cops would resolve the situation one way or the other. lets face it, they don't raid peoples' houses for nothing. either theres an explanation , or not. I hated all that hypocritical Festival of Light shit he got caught up with. But I really hope he wasn't part of that Saville set.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 04:43 PM

But at the end of the day - thank goodness for this!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK2A6JCELoc


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 06:09 PM

This is the one you really need

The Cliff Richard Show: Live At The ABC Kingston, 1962

I've not played mine for a long time because I can't remember which box it is in.

It was unreleased locked up in the vaults for decades because aparently the EMI sound engineer boffins
considered this live recording a reject for 'technical problems'.
Wouldn't it be ironic if those audio 'defects' were the sound of slightly overdriven Vox amps
- Cliff and The Shads suppressed by the EMI establishment because they rocked too hard !!???


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,SByers
Date: 19 Aug 14 - 07:58 PM

Google search for "kitty elm barnes" - for lots of references.

And see:

http://thecolemanexperience.wordpress.com/2013/04/27/cliff-richard-operation-fernbridge-elm-guest-house-and-the-kitty-connection

Not good.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 04:30 AM

Regarding the 1962 Live album.
If nothing else there is something on there for folkies. Sort of!
"All My Trial" and - from the skiffle repertoire - " Rovin' Gambler".


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Claire M
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:04 PM

I hope he wasn't, but as Al said, they don't investigate/raid houses if there's nothing to investigate *for*. I'm worried for my flatmate though. She had a nasty argument w/ somebody once, & like me she hates confrontation. She had a lil bag w/ Cliff's likeness on, & she was clutching it to her as if she thought he'd come to life, put his arms round her & tell her everything would be all right.

What does one do when part of one's life is tangled in the dread yew tree's poison branches?? Do you carry on listening to them?? Do you throw their stuff out/smash it up, vowing in deep sobbing tears never to listen to it again, & denying your lifelong enjoyment of their work ?? How do you fill the gaping hole in your life ??


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 01:56 PM

Anyone who abuses children, especially vulnerable children, has gone beyond the pale Clare.

Patting the arses of sixteen year old "groupies", was in a different league.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 03:05 PM

I'm quietly wondering whether it's not got something to do with the cult of celebrity. If you can't live a life outside of your own four walls because some wazzock is going to invade your privacy with his camera doing selfies simply to get his own fifteen minutes of fame, then it's a fair bet your human needs will become twisted - you will have no private life in society. Certainly true of the Roman Church, who do the same out of their own distorted sense of aestheticism. I think of Cliff and Sue Barker shortly before the time these allegations occurred, when the Press seemed to think they owned them: could this be aftermath? In which case, a plea of diminished responsibilty may be of the order of the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Aug 14 - 06:41 PM

Come on, chaps, keep up!

This is Mark Williams-Thomas, SuperSleuth, who banned me from his page just yesterday, after weeks of me asking him where the fecking evidence is to place Rolf Harris at Leigh Park Community Centre, where he was alleged to have abused a 7 year old. (there is NO evidence at all as he was never there)

Mark Williams-Thomas

Mark is the man who told the world about Rolf Harris and about Cliff Richard too, just the other day, although he's denied being the one to tip off the BBC...yeah, right, Mark!

He makes his living from er....paedophiles...and is now busy trying to convince the world that Almost Everyone IS A Paedophile, especially Evil Rolf, to whom he links with foul newspaper articles about him....

Sooooooo....I took over his page for a while, phoned him up ooooh, 5 times I think now, left messages, but strangely, he never rang back.. ;0)

Mark is the man who made the documentary about Savile, the one which gave rise to Operation Yewtree. He's an ex-police officer, from the Surrey force, said to have left under a cloud, was taken to court over alleged blackmail, but was found not guilty of this.

He also works for SKY NEWS as their Crime Reporter and loves to put links in to The Sun newspaper....

Er....follow The Rupert Murdoch Trail on that one!

I did point out how ODD it was for a bloke who is the Paedophile Finder General (as some folks call him) to be linking to a rag of a paper which has nude women on Page 3, which little girls aspire to become...

Cliff Richard is INNOCENT until otherwise proven, but he has been hanged, drawn and quartered by those who are following The Elm story which is all over the internet in various guises...

Apparently, you see, so the story goes, young Cliff abused young boys there, because he's on a list which also states he was known as Kitty...and there are photos of himself with The Krays (yes, they are out there) and some somewhat dodgy looking Lords (yes, they're out there too)...again, from when he was very young.

He also, according to the stories, took out Barbadian citizenship, relinquishing his British one, because he could not be extradited from Barbados, when they would try to bring him back to bang him away for the rest of his days....

Odd that he would just fly home under his own decision then? Odd that he's been in Portugal for ages too, as you'd have expected him to take refuge in a Barbados Cave somewhere under the circumstances...

Of course, The Krays drew in MANY entertainers, Barbara Windsor being just one, I believe...

But no, these photos mean, because folks know they do, that Cliff did dodgy things backalong, except, they don't know this at all.....

There's another bloke out there called Ben Fellows, to whom almost everyone has been very horrid at some time or another it seems, for Ben has plastered the internet with videos and articles of himself, accusing celebrity after celebrity of GawdKnowsWhatWithBellsOn!

Did I tell you that Cliff, according to one video on youtube, also makes his grapes grow SO big in his vineyard due to, allegedly, using the crushed bones of children as fertilizer, according to one TOTAL NUTTER I stumbled across the other day?   

These people are SO messed up in the space where their brains should be, that it truly beggars belief..


Meanwhile, having read Rolf's autobiography, confirming my thoughts that we have just put one of the kindest, gentlest folks ever in prison, I'm now reading Jim Davidson's new book, about his time with Officer Yewtree from Operation Yewtree, called 'No Further Action - The Darkest Year Of My Life' and it is mind-boggingly worrying, such is the way ANY man can now be arrested now, if a woman decides to make an allegation of sexual abuse or rape, against him....Not even a specific year is needed any longer, nor a specific place....

Find out what the Crown Prosecution Service are up to, as they've now changed the way they're doing things, in their efforts to bring in more prosecutions for these crimes...

You can check out this page on Rolf too, if you like:

Support Rolf Harris

There is SERIOUS SHITE going on in this country at present...I have no doubt that paedophile rings exist. I do not believe Cliff Richard is a part of them. I do believe there are many sick people in power and that the British Boarding School System has played a huge part in this over many decades too....

Right now though, I'm tired, tired of phoning up the Operation Yewtree officers, the Crown Prosecution Service too, asking them what the fuck is going on and WHERE is all the EVIDENCE and WHY are SINGLE juries being FORCED to judge MULTIPLE cases at ONE trial, thus prejudicing juries in the first place, etc..etc..etc...

Even the former Attorney General stated a few days back that he doesn't understand what going on any longer....

We're all a bit fucked, to be honest, not just environmentally, but as a Species in general, or perhaps I should replace 'all a bit' with 'TOTALLY', for no longer is ANY man innocent till proven guilty..and even if they're proven guilty, chances are that they are innocent now....but the CPS only wants convictions and that's ALL that matters now....

Rolf's team are seeking permission to appeal. I hope to god they're granted this and that this time they put together a legal team who are able to FIGHT for him....

Meanwhile, Cliff may end up taking the British Police and the BBC to Court himself....

And Mark Williams-Thomas will be reporting on every aspect, whilst STILL refusing to explain to me HOW Rolf could EVER have abused a 7 year old when he was never AT the venue where she placed him.....

"Curiouser and Fecking Curiouser!"...said Miss Alice Marple.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 12:28 AM

Any more Rolf Harris gets deleted, Lizzie. That is not what this thread is about. And pedant alert: it is Miss Jane Marple, but it was Alice in Wonderland who said "Curiouser and curiouser."


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 01:17 AM

Welcome back, Lizzie.

❤·x·≈Michael≈·x·❤


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 02:43 AM

Thank you, Michael...sadly, the stay is very short, after the response from one of, in my opinion, the most bullying of the Mudcat Mods.

I am WELL aware of the Miss Marple and Alice bit, thank you, which is WHY I said what I said, Maggie. It is called...HUMOUR!!!!!

Might I suggest you LEARN about it.

Good to see you're up to your usual 'pedant' bullying though......

I'll leave now....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 07:21 AM

[No anonymous guest posting - no silly comedy wise crack name - i put my 'real' name to whay I say here]

Please do not delete Lizzie's posts in this thread.

Whoever the over-officious mod is that interfered with and wrecked the 'Rolf' threads.
Could you please leave this one alone.
I ask that other mods monitor the actions of their 'suspect' co-worker.

This is a particularly 'UK culture & issues' content thread;
we do not welcome the over intrusive antagonistic deletions and disruptions
that marred our other recent threads on related matters, of serious concern to UK based members & guests.

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Claire M
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 09:24 AM

Hiya!! Don't you find, when you read re all of this, as sad & as nasty as it is, it jogs your memory, & you end up singing ½ - forgotten songs, that you once loved, badly ?? No, just me, then!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 10:49 AM

""....when you read re all of this, as sad & as nasty as it is, it jogs your memory, & you end up singing ½ - forgotten songs, that you once loved, badly ?""

Could it be earworms?

Earworms: Why songs get stuck in our heads:

earworms 


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 09:19 PM

This is a particularly 'UK culture & issues' content thread;
we do not welcome the over intrusive antagonistic deletions and disruptions


This kind of low-brow slug fest thread is an embarrassment to the mudcat community and is, I believe, a huge part of the reason why so many serious musicians have fled. If this is "culture" then I would suggest it is a mold or fungus, it isn't contributing to the music conversation of blues and folk. And this is, at heart, an American site.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 14 - 11:35 PM

Take a look at the list of contributors to this thread,
a fair few dedicated 'serious musicians' amongst us, I'd say...

.. and I'm merely one of the least experienced musicians here, I've only been playing for 40 years.

Cliff Richard may be a complete unknown to most Americans.
He may be proven in court to be a very damaged human being.
But to many of us, he, or more specifically, his backing band,
is the reason we ever started playing in the first place.

Stilly River Sage, you are considered a very valuable member of mudcat community,
and can be very helpful in your areas of expertise.
For that we thank you.

However.........................


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 02:03 AM

please allow me to continue that pfr

However...........this thread is "below the line" where supposedly any subject can be discussed.

Amazingly, I find that the behaviour in the thread has been remarkably good.

Except for the intrusion of a mod who wishes to bring nationality into it.

g


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 03:28 AM

I disagree, I find nothing to criticise in the moderators decision to delete posts on this thread., that is just my opinion, for what it is worth.
The moderators are volunteers, who are doing their best to be even handed and who are trying to prevent threads getting out of control and unpleasant, please give them a break.
this forum would be worse without moderators, moderating, if you dont like it dont visit the forum, and dont visit this thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,giovanni
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 04:49 AM

With all respect, you're way off on a tangent there soldier, but feel free to disagree with whatever you choose.

g


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 05:06 AM

At heart an american site?

What exactly do you mean by that?

Do these sort of comments question your qualification to moderate?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 08:44 AM

I sing more like Cliff than Sam Larner. Youe SRS, we never had music stations like you did. Everything was on ration. And this young guy standing up and fronting a guitar band was the most exciting thing on our young horizon.

To say he was influential to Brits would be a massive understatement. He let us down getting involved with cheesy god botherers and - forces of repression like Mary Whitehouse.

But I think i can say with certainty a shudder is running through many English people. You see Cliff has always been schtum about his sexuality. People thought maybe it was because he was gay. but why remain schtum when so many others were open - Freddy, Elton, will Young etc.

We are really dreading - musicians or civilians - finding out that something more sinister was the reason for silence all these years....

watch this space, as they say...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 08:55 AM

i agree, Al.
however nobody should be named until they are charged with a crime.
I am very suspicious of Cliff, it wouldnt surprise me if people much higher in the establishment than him like members of the royal family were even guilty, but it all has to come out.
but should not come out until someone has been found guilty. the media have a lot to answer for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 09:56 AM

punfolkrocker brought up the nationalities, giovanni. I responded. And a site situated in the U.S. northeast owned by an American individual, yes, I'd say it's an American site. Not exclusive in coverage, but American.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:21 AM

oh, is it a blame game now ???

I reluctantly raised the point that this is one of the threads of particular interest and concern to UK members and guests.

I would not need to do this, if it was'nt for the fact that a dictatorial mod with clearly no sympathy of respect
for certain UK based issue discussions,
seems to be obsessed with aggressively intruding, interfering, and disrupting our flow of debate in such threads ???.

It would perhaps be better if there were a few more UK mods on the team.

I'd might even suggest myself for the position if I had more time to honour the commitment.

However, as I have a deep distrust for anyone who volunteers for positions of power and authority
over other individuals in a community.

No worries about that ever happening.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:40 AM

My two pence (aka, cents, or pesos in the actual Americas).

It always makes me uncomfortable (and puzzled) when a referee seems to become a quasi sports player, a judge acts more like a prosecuting attorney than a judge, and a policeman acts more like a judge than a policeman.

Moderators, like the rest of us are free to have their own opinions and express them about whatever they wish (after all, it is not our site) and, not being infallible, getting caught up in an issue.I also have respect for the mods here, as it is is likely a trying and thankless role.Thanks for your work.

But, it also makes me feel a bit uncomfortable when mods get directly into the thick of a discussion, versus participating and "being seen" as "the referee" - being above the many disputes (some that seem personal, others not as much). No one wins when this happens, especially the discussiin at hand.

I am not attempting to take sides, nor single anyone out for not acting appropriately. Just sharing my gut feelings on the evolution of this (below thetline, non musical) thread, that IMO, does not seem that much worse, or embarassing to Mudcat, than many others in thd past.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:20 AM

"It always makes me uncomfortable (and puzzled) when a referee seems to become a quasi sports player, a judge acts more like a prosecuting attorney than a judge, and a policeman acts more like a judge than a policeman. "

.. yeah.. even more so when such police & judges have the power to make statements and evidence disapear,
and control who can and can't speak to court, as and when it suits them.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:28 AM

""It's always the people that know you the least, that judge you the most. ""

Not who said this quote?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:41 AM

Briefly back to topic.

Innocent or not, Cliff Richard is certainly able to afford the 'best' defence lawyers money can buy.
Plus he has had plenty of head start to get his case together
if and when it ever goes to cout.

On a side note.
I recently spent a day in the company of a large number of devout British Evangelicals.
A branch of my family & their church congregation I don't see too often.

It'd be interesting to know how their informal discussions on Cliff are going right now...???
Especially one Pastor who has the honour of being the most obnoxious individual
I have encountered in quite a few years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 09:27 AM

I would hope, punkfolkrocker, that my fellow evangelicals will be withholding judgments until the matter is [if ever] resolved. certainly I will be very disappointed if it is proved that he is lying and is guilty, but it wouldn't be my first disappointment !.
I am also sorry you have had negative experience of believers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 12:27 PM

"I am also sorry you have had negative experience of believers."

Encountering someone who fervently and unquestioningly believes in something invisible, for which there's no evidence is always a negative experience for me, pete!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:54 AM

"Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker - PM
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 11:20 AM

"It always makes me uncomfortable (and puzzled) when a referee seems to become a quasi sports player, a judge acts more like a prosecuting attorney than a judge, and a policeman acts more like a judge than a policeman. "

.. yeah.. even more so when such police & judges have the power to make statements and evidence disapear,
and control who can and can't speak to court, as and when it suits them...."
The establishment call it justice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 03:58 PM

still its not right to gob on people -even if you are a punk.

Cliff wouldn't gob on people - not even Americans. Cliff is a Christian. not to mention being an engaging showbiz personality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 05:05 PM

Wtf is gob?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:17 PM

gob is spitting, cliff doesnt gob on people, cliff is an upright christian, he is also a white engaging showbiz personality, the same as jimmy saville.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:21 PM

olde Englishe custom at punk rock concerts


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 06:27 PM

olde Englishe custom at punk rock concerts

with punk gobbing you don't gob spit. you get a mouthful of beer and gob it on your fellow punks. its a sign of bonhomie and mutual jokey disrespect.

i thought you had you had punk rock in America.

reminds me a bit of Zappa - looking out at a tiny audience. 'This is where the twist revival starts ....Bristol is ready for the twist..'


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Ed T
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 07:05 PM

I skipped out on the punk culture way back. Never really had much interest in most of the music nor the internal social aspects.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 08:05 PM

anyway, back on thread, the latest is theat Keith Vaz, the Chairman of th House of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee, confirms that the South Yorkshire Police have used the term "cover-up" in respect to the BBC, which the Committee takes a serious view of: the shadow of Leveson looms large. The hearing is on 2nd September.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Aug 14 - 09:28 PM

yeah, remember now, hadn't thought about that for a while...

all that gobbing, safety pins, and sniffin glue.. what a bunch of bonehead bellends !!!

Me and my mates were 6th form college & youth theatre smart arses playing in a punk band
who took the piss out of brainless followers of tabloid inspired prefab punk culture trends & fashions...

I did have a johnny and a tampax pinned to my onstage T shirt.

Even bigger joke is, the arsewit punks thought we were serious and all rather cool...

..and we slipped in the odd punked up Shadows instrumentals at gigs...

Oh those heady days of 6th form girls on the pill, cider and magic mushrooms...

To think we all thought Cliff was a middle aged god bothering square..


If only anyone suspected what scary dark sordid things he might really have been getting up to..???


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Claire M
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 11:27 AM

Hiya……. & rather boring. I hope not too. Mind you I also hoped so w/ someone else, who used to light me up like a Belisha beacon. I was friggin' desperate for them not to be guilty……they were. Nearly brought me to tears.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Aug 14 - 07:01 PM

Well, I was very glad when punk rock emerged. After all those years of British Glam Rock it was a breath of fresh air. As in all decades some bands were better than others but music did need the edgier sound of the punk influence for the kids at that time IMO in Britain anyway. Thank goodness audiences now appreciate all genres of music and the musicianship of bands from all decades etc. You only have to watch Glastonbury to see the variety of performers that top the bill there.

.... Back to Cliff Richard he had built up such an enigma about himself through the decades that someone somewhere would have been out there trying to find any mud to dig up. Maybe he brought it upon himself I don't know but I hope he is innocent of whatever it is supposed to be about because once tarnished with rumours like this it sticks whether innocent or not that is the problem. What about the people no longer with us or in the public eye, how is really known about them especially if they had been cunning enough to cover the tracks? It is good that victims are able to blow the whistle on abusers but it would be a travesty if someone else has got away with worse things. I don't know what all the details of what he is accused of only that the alleged victim was under 16. It seems to be more about homophobia to me. If there were more accusations against him then that would be different but one solitary accusation?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 01:49 AM

one solitary accusation? if I was on a jury I would like to know why he allegedly visited elm park guest house, a place where people convicted of peadophilia also visited at approximately the same time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:12 AM

why wait til you're on the jury - write to him and ask him. then you can tell us.

peadophilia - would that be garden, processed, or mushy..?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:22 AM

I've stayed in many hotels and guest houses over the years, some reputable, others less so. I'm fairly certain that, based on the law of averages, thieves, wife-beaters, murderers, rapists, paedophiles (note spelling, Dick), and a whole raft of other sundry undesirables, stayed at them at one time or another - possibly even at the same time I was there

That doesn't make me, or anyone else, any of those things.

A person's name written on a peice of paper doth not a paedophile make.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:23 AM

Fuckfuckfuck! PIECE!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 04:39 AM

Backwoodsman, "peadophilia" was a joke - the clue is in the rest of the line.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 06:35 AM

Backwoodsmn, you may hve stayed in all sorts of places ,that is not relevant, if i was on a jury, I would like a explanation, from Sir Cliff as to why he was visiting, that is not unreasonable, now would you kindly take your insults [see your earlier post of some days ago],off to your feckin backwoods.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 06:45 AM

Cliff Richards has been a millionare since the early sixties - he is hardly likley to have frequented the Elms Guest house as a resident is he? So why was he there?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 06:56 AM

If I was on the jury, before asking WHY he was there, I would want to know whether he really WAS there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 07:32 AM

Topsie - I understood Al's humour, but my comment was to Dick (Good Soldier Squeak) who mis-spelled paedophile initially.

Squeak - if you're insulted by someone pointing out a mis-spelling, I'd suggest you're far too sensitive. I've no recollection of insulting you earlier, if I did it was not intentional and again, I'd suggest you're far too sensitive.

So I'd recommend you take your foul temper back to your Irish bog and shove it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 08:21 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 17 Aug 14 - 01:50 PM

"the shadows were technically ok but just fecking boring, start comparing them to hendrix or to jazz musicians or blues musicians they are soulless."

Well, a concertina-squeezer should know all about 'fecking boring' and 'soulless'. Describes a concertina perfectly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 08:23 AM

a stupid generalisation, backwoodsman, its not the instrument but the player. mean whileChris Beardshaw told BBC Radio 4's Gardeners' Question Time that flowers kept near to the musical highlights of Cliff Richard had all died.

"Those in the Cliff Richard house all died. Sabotage was suspected but we couldn't prove it," he said.

Black Sabbath music was played in a second greenhouse, while a third was kept silent.

The plants kept in the other two greenhouses survived the experiment, the study revealed.

"The ones with Black Sabbath - great big, thumping noise, rowdy music - they were the shortest, but they had the best flowers and the best resistance to pest and disease," the findings stated.

The experiment was undertaken by horticultural students to see whether music affects plants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Aug 14 - 09:07 AM

I did make that comment, Squeaky, and it was not intended to insult you, it was a comment which referred to my dislike of the concertina as an instrument, nothing else, which you chose to take offence to. Don't try to blame me for your own hang-ups.

The rest of your above post is, quite frankly, irrelevant to this issue.

Incidentally, I didn't notice you attacking the poster who did insult you recently when he/she called you 'pompous and illiterate', so why attack me?

Now grow up and get off my case.

BTW, I don't like Pukeleles either. And I don't give a damn if that 'offends' you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 06:32 AM

Years ago some preachers claimed that rock music killed plants.       Personally, I think the evidence was planted !


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 01:40 PM

What's all this about Cliff being rich so wouldn't stop in a guest house?

I've enough for a beer or two myself and woke up in a field the other week... (I never quite made it back to the tent I had put up lovingly earlier that day, and the party after the festival gig was a bit good...)

I note the police removed some evidence from his house. I hope it was just porn.. they'd better not have discovered his latest album...

(By the way, note it is South Yorkshire Police, who have a tricky time with child abuse themselves at present....)


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 03:53 PM

they removed evidence....?
evidence of what....?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:10 PM

You couldn't make it up, could you? One thousand four hundred complaints against the same circles, nothing, one complaint about a celebrity, SYP launch a paparazzia. These aren't cops, they're fame hounds. They most certainly have a very distorted vision of what abuse is, so I think it'll be a doddle to clear Cliff if they do charge him. The trouble is, that kind of argument is one of heading to the lowest quality of justice, which is about all that's left after this. What I would suggest is they start recruiting Police trainees, because with that number of complaints, it's clearly time to follow up on each and every officer who was involved in it, high and low: there won't be much of a force left afterwards as a result.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 28 Aug 14 - 05:23 PM

Evidence is the BBC term although by coincidence, I can say with past authority that you can only remove evidence under code B of Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. So unless they feel it could be of interest to their enquiries it is theft.

So Occams Razor and BBC seem to agree, it is potential evidence. No comment from me beyond that as it could be evidence that clears him. Investigations in general should be to find truth.

I just couldn't resist the joke about his latest album.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 09:12 AM

BACKWOODSMAN The other comment was a personal attack, and has been removed, yours is just ill informed offensive[ to all concertina players and ridiculous, its as ridiculous as dismissing all guitars as boring


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 10:23 AM

I told you to get off my case.

My comment was about the concertina, which IMO is a boring instrument, not concertina players. Concertina players weren't mentioned, so it is not offensive to concertina players, except idiots who have themselves chosen to make it about concertina players.

Take your insecurities and hang-ups and look for another victim for your rudeness and aggressiveness. I don't roll over and die for anyone, especially notoriously argumentative players of boring instruments.

Got the message yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 12:05 PM

Imagine if Cliff Richard played a concertina?

A fairly two dimensional instrument in my view, but has it's place in about half a dozen songs...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 12:42 PM

I used to dream of playing two dimensions. However space is final frontier -I think George Washington said that.....

I say (chortle! chortle!) fancy all these yanks shooting each other....they must be a bit daft.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Silas
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 12:43 PM

I like concertinas. Played well they are brilliant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Silas
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 12:44 PM

And, with apologies to Bill caddick et al - I don't like 12 string guitars


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 01:31 PM

You know Al, John and Dick are two examples of why we don't have guns this side of the pond....


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 01:42 PM

LOL!! :-)

Oh trust me, Muskie, I don't need a gun.......!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 01:44 PM

And you're a good'un to talk! :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 29 Aug 14 - 01:48 PM

Butter doesn't melt in my mouth!

Remember when I asked if you were coming with me to see Dick Miles in concert and you said "That tosser? I'd rather drown in a vat of gorilla sweat!"


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 14 - 03:29 AM

ROTFLMAO!!

Nah, I don't hold grudges!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 07:14 AM

"A fairly two dimensional instrument in my view," could you explain
why they are in your opinion two dimensional?





adjective
1.
having the dimensions of height and width only:
a two-dimensional surface.
2.
(of a work of art) having its elements organized in terms of a flat surface, especially emphasizing the vertical and horizontal character of the picture plane:
the two-dimensional structure of a painting.
3.
(in a literary work) shallow, unconvincing, or superficial in execution:
a novel having two-dimensional characters.
Origin
1895-1900
1895-1900
Related forms
two-dimensionality, noun
two-dimensionally, adverb
.

British Dictionary definitions for two-dimensional
two-dimensional
adjective
1.
of, having, or relating to two dimensions, usually describable in terms of length and breadth or length and height
2.
lying on a plane; having an area but not enclosing any volume
3.
lacking in depth, as characters in a literary work
4.
(of painting or drawing) lacking the characteristics of form or depth
Derived Forms.
what exactly do you mean?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 07:28 AM

Dick, stop dissecting fluffy bunnies to see how they work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 08:46 AM

musket answer my question, what do you mean, it is a question that is put to you politely, can you explain what you mean but a concertina being two dimensional, if you cannot,fair enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 08:59 AM

You are looking for profundity where there is none GSS. it goes in and out - that's two dimensions.....if it went round corners...you would be right to complain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 09:14 AM

A guitar is a three dimensional instrument.

Getting warmer?

(Concertinas may not go around corners Al, but you and I possibly both recall a certain concertina player in Mansfield who is round the bend. And possibly reading this, checking the cap for tightness and working out his next heckle when I play Blidworth Bottoms next month.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 12:19 PM

The concertina like the guitar is a versatile instrument, It is effective for tradtional tunes, song accompaniment,playing ensemble Music, Such as brass band arrangements.
http://eafa.org.uk/catalogue/5148


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 01:10 PM

Mind you, I was kind of neutral on concertinas until someone with one sat in on a playaround yesterday - and played the fukelele.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 14 - 01:27 PM

years ago i did a gig at the concertina club in mexborough. apparently there used to be concertina bands - a bit like brass bands.

by the time i did the gig it was just another wmc. no concertinas in evidence - but apparently they were all stored under the stage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 06:57 AM

How different would history have been if Hank played the concertina instead of stratocaster ???

What would concertinas sound like through a fuzz box in Jimi Hendrix's hands ?????


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 08:01 AM

No, Al, they'd been conscripted into providing the ventilation for the escape tunnel.
And the most significant event in my memory relating to a brass band was when one around a 100 000 gallon beer vat failed at the upper end of Tottenham Court Road, the collapse of the tank took the rest with to and something close to hald a million gallons of beer washed down to the Thames at Charin Cross. A number of people died - one from going in in an attempt to drink it dry, and more when the floor of a house charging to view the bodies gave way, pitching another fifty into the beer-filled cellar below. And I quite like brass bands...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 01:10 PM

what if Hank had played the oboe instead of stratocaster?


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 01:57 PM

A concertina virtuoso


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Sep 14 - 03:15 PM

Why, or how, has a thread about an ongoing police enquiry involving a personality of some prominence turned into one about concertinas?

I mean, one has heard of thread-drift, BUT...

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 03:25 AM

Why?

It is interesting that the police force conducting the enquiry is the same one as was involved in turning a blind eye to industrial scale abuse. Political correctness has made that topic a no-go area. As was pointed out on another thread:

Strange and sad, the reluctance to discuss this topic mirrors the attitudes of officials and community leaders who allowed the abuse to continue for years.

It seems that the best way to avoid having a thread deleted is to stick to non-contentious issue like concertinas.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 04:21 AM

Cynical -- but probably true, alas!


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 05:15 AM

the thing about Cliff - he may have been a bit of a nine bob note, but at least he never played the concertina.

Mind you I always liked it watching Bing Crosby play when he sang True Love.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 06:11 AM

And Bob Hope singing Buttons & Bows -- one of those great US instruments, with about a 20-fold bellows!

& a bit less of concertina players being 9-bob-notes, if all the same to you, Al!

Best

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Claire M
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 06:48 AM

Hiya !! Re topic drift. Probably cos it's easier than discussing the actual topic. @ least Cliff hasn't been convicted already. That would be far worse. Said flatmate will just say he was framed, but you never know what danger's lurking in the Shadows…...

I am on the Horns of A Dilemma. I am looking for a certain cd to help me relax, tried every muscle relaxant going, nothing works as well as that familiar voice, like hot melted butter poured over gravel. Pain, nausea etc. goes away. Said cd was £1,000+ via Amazon UK, is this a real price/is someone extracting the Michael?? I thought it'd be cheap cos nobody wanted it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 09:46 AM

Perhaps we are discussing concertinas because there is nothing to say regarding Cliff, and won't be unless and until his appearance at Bramhall Lane with Billy Graham may or may not see him in court.

That said;

1. Anybody found enjoying themselves at Bramhall Lane is possibly guilty of anything you choose to charge them with. Hanging's too good for them.

2. American evangelist preachers are, statistically speaking, snorting a few lines, abusing vulnerable impressionable people who look up to them, whilst having a bloody good lifestyle from the most disgusting TV begging for cash.

3. I thought "The Young Ones" was a song, not an aspiration.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,Claire M
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 11:22 AM

Hiya! & a great tv series! "Bored, bored, bloody bored……."


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 11:49 AM

Perhaps we are discussing concertinas because there is nothing to say regarding Cliff .....

If you have nothing to say then why not just give it a rest and move on to something more interesting? It isn't compulsory to post.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 12:47 PM

So why did you cut and paste my word "perhaps."?

Tsk. There's supposed to be one in every village but we appear to have a commune of the buggers on Mudcat...


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 01:03 PM

What? A concertina in every village? Really?
[Maybe most of them are 'in the cupboard under the stairs'.]


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 02:42 PM

Musket,
There was no significance in my including "Perhaps ...". I just started at the beginning of the line and there it was. My cut and paste was only there to give continuity as I was not following on directly after your post. I wasn't having a go at you in particular. Maybe my post would have been better rewritten as:

Perhaps we are discussing concertinas because there is nothing to say regarding Cliff .....

If there is nothing to say then why don't people just give it a rest and move on to something more interesting? It isn't compulsory to post.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 05:14 PM

cliff - concertina thread drift ?
not really. it just goes "...in an out, an in an out..."
WHO said that? !.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: Musket
Date: 02 Sep 14 - 05:18 PM

I'll get Doug to write my text books...




pete. Your mod reference was good, but could also be unfortunate under the thread title. Out of interest, Squeeze Box is one of my favourite Who songs and I sing it, albeit to guitar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Cliff Richard - police investigation
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Sep 14 - 03:42 PM

ah, I guess I don't think in the same mode as you, musket.
I like " the seeker".....but I hope he "gets what
[he is] after [before]] the day [he] dies,,,"


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