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Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight

GUEST,Ed 28 Mar 14 - 04:31 AM
Rain Dog 28 Mar 14 - 06:58 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 28 Mar 14 - 08:48 AM
Will Fly 28 Mar 14 - 09:51 AM
Big Al Whittle 28 Mar 14 - 06:24 PM
Banjo-Flower 28 Mar 14 - 06:53 PM
Richard Bridge 28 Mar 14 - 08:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 28 Mar 14 - 08:03 PM
Richard Bridge 28 Mar 14 - 08:35 PM
Big Al Whittle 28 Mar 14 - 09:35 PM
Will Fly 29 Mar 14 - 02:45 PM
Sir Roger de Beverley 29 Mar 14 - 03:26 PM
Sir Roger de Beverley 29 Mar 14 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 29 Mar 14 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 29 Mar 14 - 04:13 PM
Big Al Whittle 29 Mar 14 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,Derek Schofield 29 Mar 14 - 05:48 PM
GUEST,Hootenanny 29 Mar 14 - 06:51 PM
Big Al Whittle 29 Mar 14 - 09:29 PM
Big Al Whittle 30 Mar 14 - 06:54 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 30 Mar 14 - 06:59 AM
GUEST 30 Mar 14 - 07:39 AM
GUEST,Hootenanny 30 Mar 14 - 07:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 30 Mar 14 - 11:43 AM
GUEST,matt milton 30 Mar 14 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,Dulwich Dave 30 Mar 14 - 02:08 PM
GUEST, Paul Slade 30 Mar 14 - 04:37 PM
GUEST,Mr Pedant 31 Mar 14 - 03:00 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 Mar 14 - 04:44 AM
breezy 31 Mar 14 - 05:03 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 Mar 14 - 05:10 AM
Peter Butler 31 Mar 14 - 12:02 PM
Claire M 31 Mar 14 - 02:05 PM
Sir Roger de Beverley 31 Mar 14 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach 01 Apr 14 - 09:13 AM
Will Fly 01 Apr 14 - 10:01 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 01 Apr 14 - 11:30 AM
Big Al Whittle 01 Apr 14 - 12:21 PM
Sir Roger de Beverley 01 Apr 14 - 12:27 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Apr 14 - 12:34 PM
Will Fly 01 Apr 14 - 01:21 PM
GUEST 01 Apr 14 - 06:41 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Apr 14 - 07:46 PM
Edthefolkie 02 Apr 14 - 07:27 AM
GUEST,Dollycat 02 Apr 14 - 08:10 AM
Big Al Whittle 02 Apr 14 - 08:28 AM
Will Fly 02 Apr 14 - 10:01 AM
Pete Jennings 03 Apr 14 - 07:48 AM
breezy 03 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM
Claire M 03 Apr 14 - 09:38 AM
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Subject: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 04:31 AM

May be of interest to some:

BBC4 10:00 pm

The Genius of Bert Jansch: Folk, Blues & Beyond

"A celebration of the Scottish guitarist and songwriter and founding member of the band Pentangle, who died in 2011. Interviews and rare archive footage weave together performances from a multi-artist concert at the Royal Festival Hall in London. With contributions by Ralph McTell, Robert Plant, Donovan, Bernard Butler, Martin Carthy, Martin Simpson, Lisa Knapp and members of Pentangle"


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 06:58 AM

If you go to the website for the programme there are a number of clips from it. I don't know if those clips are available to those of you outside the UK or not.

The Genius of Bert Jansch: Folk, Blues & Beyond


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 08:48 AM

It seems strange using a phrase, "folk, blues and beyond", associated with Davy Graham for a programme about Bert!


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 09:51 AM

D'you know, Tunesmith, that was exactly my thought when I looked at the Radio Times just now!

I shan't hear it tonight - out at a club - but will catch up with it on the iPlayer sometime over the weekend.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 06:24 PM

congratulations beeb4.

the worst versions of Needle and Blues Run the Game I've ever heard.

must have taken some doing.....


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 06:53 PM

Not to my taste too bluesy and jazzy switched off halfway through

Gerry


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 08:01 PM

I think the only bit I REALLY enjoyed was Martin Carthy's SUBLIME accompaniment. I think there is a Jansch in session thingy at half-past-midnight.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 08:03 PM

quite liked fresh as a sweet summer morning.

Ralph and Wizz were sublime as usual. lots of the rest I didn't care for.

how come none of these bbc4 wallahs have never given Wizz an in concert programme. l

he's 74 years old now. I don't feel the evidence should be destroyed showing what the smart arses decided wasn't folk music. his fingers are at genius level. right now!

A great English voice and folk song technique.

if you don't like jazz and blues - its not likely you would dig the programme. Bert Jansch didn't spend his life in a remote Sussex village. his folk music reflects his ability to absorb all sorts of genres into his technique.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 08:35 PM

Accepted. Wizz Jones was good too. And Thompson's bass. And the other bass with the beard, and one of the kit drummers. McTell made an acceptable doing of Anji, although the concentration showed!


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Mar 14 - 09:35 PM

I loved that song Ralph wrote about Bert and Anne Briggs. It would have been nice to hear her sing Blackwaterside.

I hope he records it. I have the boxed set of his lovesongs and I can't recall it being on.

such a beautiful song about young love's passing nature as opposed to the permanence of great art.

for now I think we all see Jansch's Blackwaterside - as a monumental piece in the history of acoustic guitar.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 02:45 PM

I watched a few minutes and then switched off. I met up with some friends this afternoon - their comment: "Dire", so I doubt that I'll bother.

If you want to know about Bert Jansch, read "Dazzling Stranger".


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 03:26 PM

Contrary to earlier opinion The Neil Young version of Needle had me in tears. Granted it was a poor quality recording but the sincerity shone through. Took me right back to being 18, sharing a flat with a friend and playing that album on the turntable until we could hardly hear anything for the crackling.

R


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 03:28 PM

The bizarre moment for me was Beverley Martin (on the strength of appearing on the cover of his second album) singing a Bob Dylan song!!


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 03:51 PM

I forced myself to watch about 55 minutes and agree with Will Fly's friends: "Dire". I love jazz and blues but didn't hear any here. I saw one unbelievably bad number by Beverley Martin, a crap version of Angie by someone who I believed would do better, two other female singers as bad as any floor singers that I have ever suffered, rubbish from Donovan Leitch and part of an unmemorable song about Jansch learning Blackwater Side, waffle by some talking heads and an unbelievable filmed insert of someone in a mock up self recording booth doing Needle of Death.The whole thing reminded me again of why I gave up going to folk clubs.

Unbelieveable.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 04:13 PM

Not impressed with Neil's version!
Not impressed with his singing, and the guitar playing! Has he got arthritis or something?


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 04:41 PM

pity Neil wasn't sincere enough to learn the words and the tune.

one of the great guitar moves that Jansch showed us all was the A minor in the G. Just as Tom Paxton showed us all the C inside the G.

Granted other guitarists had used it as an embellishment (Rambling Jack Elliot in Candyman - we're talking people who visited the English folk scene.)

But Bert used this move to such great effect with the melodies of Needle and Running from home.

Reinforces my long held opinion that BBC relies on people who know sod all about our music. They've done fair job of killing off the folk music revival.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 05:48 PM

This thread, as many others on Mudcat, just goes to show that, in art, people have different views and interpretations. It would be a poorer world if we all thought the same.
But it's a poorer world when we can't recognise and appreciate that there are differing views and interpretations.
Of course, as in many of these events, some were there to honour the person being remembered, one or two were there to promote their own careers.
Nevertheless, I was confused by Hoot's comment, "The whole thing reminded me again of why I gave up going to folk clubs." This was hardly a folk club - it was a concert in a large London concert hall... not quite sure what it had to do with folk clubs!

best wishes to all

Derek


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 06:51 PM

Derek,

Of course it wasn't a bleeding folk club. It was listening to people like Donovan and his ilk and others mentioned on the programme like Jackson Frank that had sod all to do with folk music and it included Neil Young (who was a singer/songwriter rather than a folk musician) making an awful attempt at a Jansch song that was not in my opinion folk however good a song it might be. It was this type performer and material that came into the folk clubs that kept me away.

And by the way in case you haven't noticed, it isn't only in art that people have different views. Life's like that.

Hoot


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Mar 14 - 09:29 PM

Ralph McTell wouldn't know how to play a crap version of Anji or write an unmemorable song.

Folk clubs is where the folk are. maybe you don't like folk - you just want some ossified load of old taters that has its natural place on a shelf in Cecil Sharp house. or declaimed by the great and good of all the folk dynasties from the festival stage -elevated above the heads of ordinary folk.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 06:54 AM

no jazz, no blues - that was a segue into Lullaby of Birdland from Anji.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 06:59 AM

I thought Ralph's Angie was quite interesting. I love Bert, but his Angie is played too fast for my liking, and, like Bert did with Davy's Angie, i.e. altering things and inserting a different tune ( Worksong?), so did Ralph.
If there's one thing that you must do when playing Angie, it's to never play it exactly - even if you can - like Bert or Davy!


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 07:39 AM

Al,
"no jazz, no blues"? To quote from an old non folk song "It ain't what you do it's the way that you do it".

It may be you that doesn't like folk but that's your choice and if you enjoyed the programme that's fine. "Different strokes for different folks" and also non folk.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 07:40 AM

Apologies all, the above post was from me.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 11:43 AM

well I thought Bert deserved better....

barring colds and flu, I like to get out to folk clubs and stuff like that several times a week. have done for years. that's the folk music I like - music with folk attached - not some bloody abstraction.

and by and large, I don't just like the company of folksingers - I love it.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 01:37 PM

great thing about iPlayer is that you can immediately fast-forward the bits you don't like to the bits you do.

As a guitarist I enjoyed watching Ralph McTell playing Anji (or however it is you spell it), Martin Simpson playing Blues Run The Game & Heartbreak Hotel and I even enjoyed Donovan's song, even though he's a hippy prat - it had quite a cute Bert-influenced riff to it. I thought it was even slightly touching when he said that the song, a love song addressed to a girl in the lyrics, was basically about Bert.

Sure, every one of us could doubtless have programmed a better tribute concert for Bert Jansch to be filmed and broadcast by BBC4. But none of us were in a position to do so and none of us did! So stop complaining. There's so little on TV that's worth watching on any channel – be it music, comedy, drama, movies, documentaries, anything – that I'm just pleased there's something about a musical hero of mine on the box.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Dulwich Dave
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 02:08 PM

Martin Simpson , Ralph McTell and Wizz Jones were by far the best in my opinion - I would have preferred to see Martin Carthy do something alone really - I though it was an odd pairing with Lisa Knapp - Donovan was lousy and the singalong "Strolling Down The Highway" at the end was just embarrassing.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST, Paul Slade
Date: 30 Mar 14 - 04:37 PM

Anyone know who the musician Whizz Jones mentioned was? The guy Bert felt he'd let down and wrote the song to apologise for that?


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Mr Pedant
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 03:00 AM

its Wizz mate - not Whizz


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 04:44 AM

sorted out for wizz and h?


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: breezy
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 05:03 AM

Martin Simpson performing Blues Run the Game was unbearable and totally unrecognisable, -          altered the melody, over embelished the accompaniment and played it way too fast. Sounded under rehearsed.
I think many of us could do a better version.

Like he didnt have a B J number to perform ?

Ralph's rendition of Angie was solid after all its only a play on a the chord structure but was far too long and became tedious.

Pentangle were brill though much of the material didnt really appeal to me as a 'folk' fan.

It would be better to describe the evening as a reflection of contemporary 'Folk' in Soho, London in the 60s

Now its time to put emback into the box , close the lid, replace on the shelf for academic studies in later years.

Shame about Neil Young's singing.

Saw Jackson C F and Paul Simon at Les C, mainly on the evenings when there was hardly an audience . usually mid week.

see ya at Loughton folk Club Thurs 15th May


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 05:10 AM

have a good 'un!


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Peter Butler
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 12:02 PM

Towards the end of last year, Heather Jansch (his second wife) published a book about her time with Bert. It's not a kiss and tell, nor are there any guitar transcriptions. Rather it's a delightful love story, with lots of illustrations and photographs in a beautifully bound volume.

Details can be found here: Bert Jansch - Living with the legend


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Claire M
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 02:05 PM

Hiya!

*Love bbc4. Even w/ nothing to watch all week I still check it (but there's usually a flurry of texts asking whether I've watched something on it) Loved RP's renditions but then I love him anyway. Jacqui McShee was terrific; I was a mass of goosebumps.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 31 Mar 14 - 03:40 PM

It was odd hearing everyone talking about Bert and John Renbourn (I confess that Bert and John is one of my all-time favourite albums) and then find that Renbourn wasn't part of the concert. I know that they had their issues over the years, but was it that or, perhaps, illness that meant that Pentangle had neither of their guitarists present.

R


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Tony Rath aka Tonyteach
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 09:13 AM

I watched bits of it thought that a large part of it was not a suitable memorial to a great singer and folk guitarist. Donovan for Gods sake. Did not like him in the 60s and 70s and he has not improved with age. Wizz jones totally agree about this but thats the Beeb for you full of Oxbridge prats who do not know the folk scene.

As a lifelong ugly it was sad to see the aging process in action from the original photos of Pentangle to the present day. Bert and Jacqui and the others were good looking people when young


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 10:01 AM

well, I don't know about "Oxbridge prats who do not know the folk scene". Here's the bio of the programme executive producer, Mark Cooper:

Mark Cooper

I think he probably knows quite a lot about music. Whether we all agree with his take on it is another matter...


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 11:30 AM

Whether you like Donovan or not, he did acknowledge Bert Jansch as an influence very early on. He included a couple of Jansch songs on his first album that was released in the wake of the success of Catch The Wind.

So, he had every right to be there in that tribute concert.

R


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 12:21 PM

I agree sir rog. having said that - he wasn't very well recorded on the programme' he's never been one of those people who could really project. but the recorded product has always been of an excellent quality.

I bet Bert was pleased to have Donovan covering his songs.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 12:27 PM

I think that "do you hear me now" was the first one that he recorded. However, I checked and it wasn't on his first album - so apologies.

R


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 12:34 PM

Oh come on Will - whatever mark cooper's qualifications - he didn't have the bottle to say to Neil wotsit - sorry mate that was shit - we are trying to honour someone important to a lot of people- either learn the song, or get someone else to play the guitar for you - and singing from a cribsheet isn't good enough.

performing a song is to do with passion like delivering a speech by Shakespeare.

either do it properly or get off the pot.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 01:21 PM

I agree with you Al, but that doesn't necessarily means he know bugger all about folk music - merely that he had a load of ideas that several of us obviously disagree with!


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 06:41 PM

OK you know the folk scene right and you are running a programme on national TV and you let people go on who are simply not in the same league as the person who is being honoured Thats having a different idea all right thats incompetence that is


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 07:46 PM

anybody read the Heather Jansch's book. twenty five quid plus postage seems a bit steep


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:27 AM

Well I blooming well enjoyed all of it, so there. Breezy got it right - obviously supposed to be a reflection of an evening at the Cousins, Scots Hoose, Troubadour etc. Complete with wagon wheel on the wall.

Neil Young as slightly frazzled floor singer who finds himself trapped inside a Voice-o-Graph booth was admittedly a bit left field. But I have seen stranger things in folk clubs.

Donovan can be a pain in the bum but seemed pretty OK this time. I was chuffed to see Bev (first time I'd seen her singing since 1973), also Bonnie Dobson and Lisa Knapp. Ralph McTell's performance of "A Kiss In The Rain" was both appropriate and moving. And Wizz Jones - blimey! WHAT a player. As ever.

Should mention Paul Wassif and Bernard Butler - Mr Butler extremely tasteful playing throughout. And Robert Plant, supplying effortless gravitas. The reminiscences and general chat were enjoyable too.

But I too think Wizz and Danny T were standouts. Especially Danny in the old film of himself in too-small Speedos. Wot a larf.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: GUEST,Dollycat
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:10 AM

No Mention in the programme of Gordon Giltrap, who was a great friend of Bert's and his wife, Loren. Did a tune on the night that had people in tears.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:28 AM

NY deserves permanent confinement in the phonebox for that bugger...til he's learned to play Needle of Death (which I reckon could work out at twenty to life).

I agree - seeing Gordon would have been more to the point. he was part of that transatlantic records gang.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 10:01 AM

Well I blooming well enjoyed all of it, so there. Breezy got it right - obviously supposed to be a reflection of an evening at the Cousins, Scots Hoose, Troubadour etc. Complete with wagon wheel on the wall.

It's odd isn't it - how reactions to programmes can be polarised. I only watched the first 5 minutes and then wasn't beguiled enough to bother with any more. So my opinion has little real value.

However, I was at an open mic last night and somebody called out, "Anyone see the Bert Jansch programme the other night?" There was a general murmur of derision and remarks like, "Terrible", "Bloody awful", "What a waste", etc. I don't think I heard a single positive comment about it from the assembled musos.

Just shows you how tastes can vary.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:48 AM

I was in France so missed it.

Every time I pick up a guitar, I play something by Bert.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: breezy
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:11 AM

would that be Brixton Bert?

If anyone on here dares to show up at my gig on Thurs 15th May in Loughton I'll add N o D to my set list , well maybe , funny how hearing it has rekindled the song, then again how many others will be doing it just to get it back out there too?

When you have a youth full family and friends have had their kids going down that road , one stops to think awhile

1968 I would sit and listen to Ralph M and Gordon G on a Tuesday evening in Herne Hill with only a handful of others.


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Subject: RE: Bert Jansch - UK TV (BBC4) tonight
From: Claire M
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 09:38 AM

Hiya!

Liked Donovan's guitar. Was going to get HJ's book but not @ that price, esp. when I know I'll only read it once, if that.

I'm sure you weren't/aren't Tony. I think Jacqui's voice is better now myself. Same w/ Planty; not as keen to take a walk in the morning dew w/ him now though. Shame his version of said song isn't @ all like the one he sang on said programme.


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