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Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately

Art Thieme 13 Nov 99 - 10:07 AM
lloyd61 13 Nov 99 - 10:47 AM
MMario 13 Nov 99 - 10:49 AM
Áine 13 Nov 99 - 10:59 AM
MMario 13 Nov 99 - 11:15 AM
Peter T. 13 Nov 99 - 11:25 AM
JedMarum 13 Nov 99 - 11:30 AM
katlaughing 13 Nov 99 - 12:55 PM
kendall 13 Nov 99 - 01:09 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Nov 99 - 01:23 PM
paddymac 13 Nov 99 - 01:35 PM
wildlone 13 Nov 99 - 01:40 PM
Sandy Paton 13 Nov 99 - 01:41 PM
Jeri 13 Nov 99 - 01:42 PM
Jeri 13 Nov 99 - 02:17 PM
lloyd61 13 Nov 99 - 02:24 PM
13 Nov 99 - 02:32 PM
MandolinPaul 13 Nov 99 - 02:41 PM
katlaughing 13 Nov 99 - 02:55 PM
Áine 13 Nov 99 - 02:56 PM
MandolinPaul 13 Nov 99 - 03:13 PM
Áine 13 Nov 99 - 03:25 PM
Kernow John 13 Nov 99 - 03:29 PM
katlaughing 13 Nov 99 - 03:36 PM
catspaw49 13 Nov 99 - 03:45 PM
Peter T. 13 Nov 99 - 03:50 PM
MandolinPaul 13 Nov 99 - 03:50 PM
Áine 13 Nov 99 - 03:54 PM
MandolinPaul 13 Nov 99 - 03:57 PM
MandolinPaul 13 Nov 99 - 03:59 PM
Rick Fielding 13 Nov 99 - 03:59 PM
katlaughing 13 Nov 99 - 04:02 PM
katlaughing 13 Nov 99 - 04:30 PM
catspaw49 13 Nov 99 - 04:37 PM
bbc 13 Nov 99 - 04:51 PM
Peter T. 13 Nov 99 - 05:35 PM
lloyd61 13 Nov 99 - 06:04 PM
Lonesome EJ 13 Nov 99 - 06:19 PM
JedMarum 13 Nov 99 - 06:26 PM
kendall 13 Nov 99 - 06:34 PM
katlaughing 13 Nov 99 - 06:42 PM
Bugsy 13 Nov 99 - 06:53 PM
Helen 13 Nov 99 - 06:54 PM
Bugsy 13 Nov 99 - 06:54 PM
Bugsy 13 Nov 99 - 06:56 PM
Bill D 13 Nov 99 - 06:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Nov 99 - 08:52 PM
_gargoyle 13 Nov 99 - 09:45 PM
Rick Fielding 13 Nov 99 - 09:51 PM
Little Neophyte 13 Nov 99 - 09:56 PM
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Subject: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Art Thieme
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 10:07 AM

I'm ready to join Gargoyle. Where are the threads about folksongs?? Very frustrating. I can probably stay away a week now and, on checking in, only find one or two threads that pertain to the expressed reasons for this site---folk music. I do realize that a while ago I started one of the worst of the B.S. threads---but I was stiving, then, to point up the vacuousness of what were yet to be called "the B.S. threads".

I am here and now advocating total censorship!!

Max, take charge of your site. Please delete the s***. I, for one, am tired of wading through it.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: lloyd61
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 10:47 AM

Now, Now Art, don't get yourself all upset. Most of the folks who come to this site are all of a like mind, they have a passion for the "Music", but they live in a real world and have other interests and concerns, out side of music, where else can they go to find input from others how share their values? Even if it is about Vacuum cleaners, Besides there is a song in this subject some place. As I wade through the BS I still find a great deal of Folk Music.

One more thing, I sat through MANY of YOUR concerts, because you are still my favorite, and there was a lot of BS in your concerts that was not Folk Music, so settle down and enjoy your friends no matter what they talk about.

Love…..Lloyd


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MMario
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 10:49 AM

Art - in the last 4 days there have been 40 threads dealing with lyrics, lyrics added, lyric requests, etc. this is more than there were in the first 6 months of operation of the MudCat. granted there is a lot of other stuff, but i would say not only is the Mudcat healthy, but it is alive and well and doing it's business very well. Of course this is only my opinion. It is a simple matter to screen the threads if you want to eliminate the BS. especially since I was able to determine that in less then a minute after reading your post.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Áine
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 10:59 AM

Dear Art,

I'm sorry to see that you're that upset about the BS threads. And you're right to call the 'class' back to order. However, I did a 'refresh' for the past 7 days on the forum and the majority of the messages were about music, so I don't think that the expressed reason for the forum has disappeared.

Looking at the forum in the context of 'small group dynamics', I think we need to understand that the group will move in different directions at times, but will come back to the original focus that caused it to form in the first place. The forum is, after all, made up of human beings, and humans have this tendency to be curious about many things.

I, too, have on occasion scanned the forum for several days without finding too much to spark my interest. However, I keep coming back, and eventually, there are threads that I become very interested and active in, as well as threads that give me ideas about things I want to ask about.

So, Art, it may be a drab week now and then, but have faith in your fellow 'Catters.

With warmest regards, Áine

(P.S. I was the lucky bidder for your tape on the Mudcat Auction last week and I'm anxiously awaiting its arrival in the mail. Thank you so much for making it available here.)


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MMario
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 11:15 AM

My apologies. It took only 5 weeks to come up with forty thread on lyrics when the MudCat opened. My previous search was too limiting. Still, I maintain that discussion of music if not necessarily "folk music" in the strict sense of the phrase is alive and well on the Cat.

Art- I can see where your frustration comes from, however.

But since your cassette that was in auction has just closed, maybe you could tell us a little bit more about it, other then you whpped it off in about two hours (if I remember your comment from the bidding correctly.)


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 11:25 AM

I naturally agree with MMario, being a Threadhead, but to add two new cents to this I have noticed ironically that an increasing number of song threads are not getting past the first two or three responses, because the answer is in the DT now. There used to be more threads about songs because people here were still looking around for the lyrics, and in the meantime they would chat about them, and spark a more interesting exchange of lyrics. The site is probably just getting mature (not in the joke sense, for sure). The people here have chopped a lot of wood, and now they are sitting by the fireside reaping some of the benefits. We could probably start at the "A"s and work our way through the DT to polish, query or add new verses, but that is not like the earlier spontaneous stuff when we were filling in the basic gaps.

The law of percentages is beginning to catch up on queries for English-speaking folk songs that people out there have heard -- I mean, we are up to almost 10,000 songs here. I think it is just a rhythm. I believe we have only scratched the surface of folk music here, but it is a pretty good surface. We could also dig for more foreign material or more specialty material: German, Italian, Spanish, French. But we would have to actively proselytize. And to be blunt, I don't recall reading an Art Thieme posting in awhile asking for information from Mudcatters about some new field of folk music, other ranges of folk songs, new artists, etc.
I am not attacking you personally, but we are past the swapping of lyrics to "Down in The Valley" stage. If you want interesting folk song discussions, start generating them!!! yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 11:30 AM

I'd like to have all the sitcoms and night-time soaps removed from my TV list, too. The last thing I need in my life is Roseanne teaching me a morality lesson on the subject of homophobia, or some such drivel.

But the TV gods don't care much for my opinion, so I cruise on past Ms McBeal, and skip over ER and Freinds and focus on PBS, maybe a sports event, now and then. What I find there is pretty rich pickin's!

When I come to Mudcat; I read lots, answer a few, ask a very few - and my main purpose is to pursue my folk music interests. So what if I choose to dabble in the odd political discussion. It seems to me most threads are music related.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 12:55 PM

Oh, Art, I am sorry it has gotten to you, lately. I think Peter made some good points, as did the others, but i have to admit, even I, an avowed BSer, have been a bit dismayed at the subjects of the BS threads lately and their quantity. A lot of them seem to be vacant-headed as opposed to some of the bs threads of the past and I have not posted to several of them just because their titles have put me off. I am guily of starting the Happy Thoughts one as a sort of antidote to the pall of depression that was hanging over us all last Wednesday with the radio show, Harry Fox and all.

I think there are two kinds of BS threads, those that focus on the serious and lighter sides of very interesting issues, such as xenophobia, classic Thieme, Vietnam, and cacaphony, to name a few of my favs, and those that deal with what I think of as real inanities like some of the ones we are seeing now.

You know we've talked about how these things go in cycles and do balance themselves out. I had wondered why we hadn't been seeing much of you lately, Art. I am actually glad to know it was for this reason, rather than something to do with your health. Please don't follow GG. You are a leader here and an important and beloved part of the Mudcat for a lot of us and you have much to contribute. Start a few threads of the type you want to see more of and we will join in.

luvyaKat


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:09 PM

I would like to see ALL non music related stuff have the BS prefix. Dont we have such a rule? If so, lets honor it.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:23 PM

So is this thread non-related to music or related? Some threads start off talking or asking about something directly related to a song, others start off as BS, and then get into songs.

Anything you can talk about can get you into music.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: paddymac
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:35 PM

Many good and valid points are made above, but let's not forget that the creative muse may strike anywhere, anytime. Just in the last 48 hours we've seen the creation of a sure-to-become-a-classic *BG* parody (How much is that kitten in the window) dealing with the apparently wide-spread problem yet esoteric topic of cat farts. Now, tell me, is there another place in either the real or virtual world that can be said to truly foster such creativity? Not to mention a catchy verse to "Girl I Left Behind". I wasn't around when the thread categories were established, but they are a fine first-stage filter mechanism. Treat yerself to a pint & a jimmy and relax, secure in the knowledge that you're still loved and respected, despite a curmudgeonly moment.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: wildlone
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:40 PM

Dear Art I am a relative newbie I came to the DT[as most of us did]looking for lyrics,liked what I saw and stayed.
I have joined in the BS threads even started a few,added lyrics I have got that are not in the DT.
I feel we are part of a international group with many different aspects so we chat and "catterwall" so what.
As a UK advert used to say "its good to talk".wl.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:41 PM

It's not a rule, Kendall. It's just something I once suggested to make it easier for us folk fogeys to skip over a few threads we simply didn't have time to investigate for "folk music" content. I find that I often scan through "BS" threads rather quickly now, but I don't ignore them completely, because I do enjoy reading some of the exchanges of ideas and concerns. Let's remember, even if we're sometimes disappointed in it, that the Mudcat is a virtual community of folk music enthusiasts and the "BS" threads actually serve to give it a human, rather than a purely academic nature.

Art: I've been a bit worried about you, and intended to write a personal e-pistle when things settled down here a bit. I'd hoped you would be able to make it to the Gerry Armstrong Memorial Concert on October 31st, although I knew it would be a tough trip for you. I'm glad we were able to participate, but we all missed you there.

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 01:42 PM

Kendall, there is no rule about the BS prefix. I personally don't have any problem figuring out threads about vaccuum cleaners or cat farts aren't likely to be about music. Are folks really having a problem with this? I've seen people use the BS prefix for anything not related to a song - discussion of festivals, instruments, and lately, copyright issues. Shall we argue "what is BS?"

One or two threads in a week? I just counted 36 in the past 24 hours that appear to me to be about individual songs and folk music in general.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:17 PM

Now that I've thought about it...

People often respond to the "too much BS" viewpoint by saying "if you want more music threads, start them." I think it might be fun and educational if there were a recurring topic, sort of like Peter T.'s "Thought for the Day" called "Song for the Day - (song name)." People could post a new song, or refer to one in the database, and perhaps tell a story about how or where they learned or heard the song, an anecdote about the author, historical facts, whatever.

For those who are now thinking "if you want to see a song for the day thread, start one," I don't know all that much about the songs, so I mostly read what others say. I'm rather an expert at BS, though.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: lloyd61
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:24 PM

Something to think about, I started 4 threads called "A Gig to remember…" they lasted a day with a few responses, then I started a thread called "A Gig from Hell", it lasted a week with many responses. What does that say about Mudcat people? I think it says volumes.

We need to keep our focus but also our freeeom.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From:
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:32 PM

I've come to the conclusion that on the internet bigger just means worse (and usually more expensive). So many options in a menu that it takes forever to find the simple one you want [like finding what you want here].


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:41 PM

Art,

You will probably think I'm an arsehole for saying this...
Get over yourself.

When you're at a party, and the topic of conversation doesn't interest you, do you:
a) Have a hissy fit at the other guests, telling them you hate this line of conversation.

b) Go whine to the host, "Aww come on ... make them stop".

c) Try to gracefully steer the conversation in a direction you're interested in.

OR

d) Quietly leave the others to enjoy themselves.

If your answer is A or B (and I believe it to be both), then repeat after me, "I have behaved like a child."

If your answer is C or D (and I believe it ain't), then you have behaved appropriately.

To summarize: If you don't like the conversation, try to start your own, or get out.

Just my opinion. I hope you don't leave; you quite often have wonderful insight to add to the threads.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:55 PM

Paul S. one of the nice things about the Mudcat is we try to be tolerant of one another and respectful. I am sory, but I think your posting is really harsh and uncalled for. Art expressed an opinion, something we all do on here constantly without getting so personal and nasty.

Art, please stay. You are one of the main *icons* of teh mudcat that keep me here. If it weren't for the Mudcat I might never have met you and your incredible career of music and giving.

luvyaKat


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Áine
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 02:56 PM

Paul S. -- Here's a much more discreet and succinct way of stating your point:

Is not better to light a candle than to curse the darkness?

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:13 PM

Kat and Aine:

If you found my posting harsh, then it probably was. But I found Art's posting to be equally harsh. Was he being "tolerant and respectful"?

I didn't say that he should leave. As I said, I hope he doesn't, because his usual input is valuable.

His message just sounded frustrated and rude, so I told him what his options were. Was anything I said really incorrect? Would you have rushed to his defence if the original message had been posted by Gargoyle? I think your response would have been much different. But no matter who it comes from, it was rude.

That's all.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Áine
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:25 PM

Dear Paul,

Thou protests too much, I fear.

You should know by now that both Kat and I have a habit of standing around with fire extinguishers in our hands.

Of course you can express your thoughts any way you want to. I think Kat and I both just want everyone to 'keep it above the belt' and 'out of the cow pies,' that's all. (And Kat, if I'm speaking out of turn here on your part, put the red thingy down and I'll go for my mop bucket).

Respectfully, Áine


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Kernow John
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:29 PM

Art
At the risk of being thought harsh or rude I have to agree with you.
It drives me nuts having to wade through a list of BS. threads looking for something on music and more often than not missing it.
Sadly it seems we are in a minority.
Regards Baz


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:36 PM

Ditto, Aine. Thank you for putting it so well.

Paul, I did not find Art's too personally rude to anyone specifically, while yours was a specific attack on him. You did specifically tell him to "get out" if he didn't like it. Considering his history here and his history as a well-loved folk artist, that was rude.

And, just to be clear, there is no way in hell I would EVER compare Art to Gargoyle. Art has comported himself on here with predictable grace, caustic humour, vast knowledge, and a lifetime of experince he is constantly willing to share. GG doesn't even come close.

As a person with a disablity, I also find your example of the party to be mean and childish. Art has made no secret of his being pretty much housebound due to MS. Art, I apoligise to you, here, for making this an issue, because I know YOU don't, but Paul, I found this example to be thoughtless and hurtful to anyone who isn't able to circulate much due to physical limitations.

kat


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:45 PM

Can I assume that's over now?

Art, your point is made and I think everyone that BS's around here gets to feeling the same way at times. I read a ton of lyrics threads, but as Peter said, we're covering some old ground and many new requests are quickly answered.

I'm not too enamored of some of the BS threads lately, like the Millenium song nonsense, and I said so. Some of the others simply pass the time til a good topic comes along. I enjoyed the "Rosewood" thread a lot and some of the seeming nonsensical ones have turned into interesting discussions...very typical. Sometimes I post, sometimes I don't. Tony Burns Sweeper thread strikes me as just a friend asking advice.

I think that in the main, there are generally several threads that have merit for me outside of general crappola. Right now, I'm tracking a dozen with interest...everything else is just there and I may or may not bother. Last week I was only watching a couple. So I put up some posts on the total BS threads and have a good time. I don't find it too hard to separate the chaff.....but every now and then, there ain't too much grain. Right now, for me, its OK.

Like Sandy, I've been a bit worried and missing you too. Don't run off........Start a topic like Kat said, that really interests you. Once again, you seem to have started a good one here!!??!!!??!!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:50 PM

Well, I didn't help much with my tone, for which I apologise to Art and to others. It comes from having to work on a Saturday (again), and ignoring kat's wise thought for today. I was responding (a) to Art's advocation, even jokingly, of total censorship; and (b) the idea of staying away for a week and then checking in to "find" something interesting (I quote). In the last 5 days, I have been privy to discussions about "The Big Ship Sailing", which brought out fascinating material about children's games and memories of the Manchester Ship Canal; about who wrote Joan Baez' version of "Annabel Lee" and got a message from the composer himself about playing for Mimi Baez' wedding, and his hopes for his new opera "Rostam"; I have had e-mail discussions generated from threads from people about minor key songs in Cole Porter; about Son House's burying place; about the new rerelease of Gram Parson's bio "Hickory Wind"; about Richard Thompson's "Beeswing" including a possible new recording by an artist I have never heard of; and the roots of the British folk scene in the 1970's about which I know nothing, even though I lived there at the time. I am not trying to brag: I am only pointing out that this can be a working site as well as a check in site. And I am seriously ignorant, and not even trying - this takes about 15 minutes a day. It is a gold mine: I am rewarded every time I get in here, by the music stuff that pours out here, and that is well before the often overthetop fun of the BS stuff. I have nothing against checking in -- I know lots of people who never post anything -- but there is a lot more going on here if one wants it. It can be a tool for new discovery. I am constantly amazed at the masses of music knowledge people are willing to send me, or post, for free and all because of this site.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:50 PM

Kat:

Christ! Get over it.

How in the hell am I supposed to know about anybody's illnesses. I have never seen anybody mention this in a thread.

Allow me to re-iterate. My point was that if a person isn't interested in what is being said someplace, they have two options:
1. Start a new line of conversation.
2. Leave.

If my response seemed personal, it is because I was responding to what one person typed; of course it's personal. I am not going to quote the original message and tell you what parts of it pissed me off. I have already blown off the related steam and gotten over that; it wasn't a big deal.

Please tell me again what a dink I am!


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Áine
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:54 PM

Dear Paul,

You're a dink.

Now, let's all get over it.

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:57 PM

Thanks Aine.

Now I feel better.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:59 PM

-Aaaaaaaaaaaah-

-ooooooooooooooooooo-

(The sound of Paul taking a deep breath.)


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 03:59 PM

35 years ago I joined a bluegrass organisation in Toronto. There were about 10 folks in it. We got together and played. We yakked a lot about The Stanley Bros. The Lonesome Pine Fiddlers, Buzz Busby, Reno and Smiley, and even the "commercial" bands like Flatt and Scruggs, Bill Monroe, The Country Gentlemen, and The Green briar Boys. The playing was at a pretty advanced level because we were all "serious nerds" and practiced for hours and hours to get it "right". As the months went by, newcomers joined who just flat out loved the music..but saw no difference between "Don't Let Your Sweet Love Die" and "Fox on The Run". After a year, there were far more recent arrivals than veterans, and "Fox on the Run" became the order of the day. I loved the atmosphere, but the music was no longer (what I called) "Bluegrass", and the skill level had plummeted to "hootenany level". I left...a bit sadder, but not so sad that I felt the need to insult anyone for "poluting my private little stream".

I used to go on a fairly regular basis to a club that was well known for giving artists a chance to try out new material. No pressure, no pay, frequented by the young and the old. It was a great idea and became popular. With popularity came performers who thought of their 12 minute slot as a mini-concert, complete with attitude, diary-songs, and little coteries of friends and family, who would noisily exit immediately after "their" performer had finished unplugging. The "workshop" atmosphere was gone forever. So I left. Just wasn't my scene anymore. Because of my veteran status, had I thrown out a few parting shots about the "level" the club had sunk to, some would have listened, and more than a few would have been hurt. Nope, it wasn't my playpen any more so I left to find (or start) another one. The club still flourishes, and I guess that very few grumble about the "level of quality".

Human nature insists that every gathering of people eventually "congeals" into a "group" complete with a very definable pecking order. People appoint themselves (or get appointed) in certain roles. When I joined a year ago, it was quite obvious to me who was the "moral voice" (and moral voice in waiting) who were the sages, the jester, the designated complainers, the saints and the sinners. There were folks who had a ready audience for their newest poetry - and who wouldn't want an audience as uncritical as Mudcat? I found it great fun, and discovered over a few months that very few took these "roles" terribly seriously. Well, that's a pretty attractive community, and I guess word spread, so more people joined (the "masses" as Gargoyle calls them publicly, and others, probably under their breath) and naturally the roles became less clear. A couple of weeks ago, a newby professed to not know whether Art was male or female!! For Shame! A few of us jumped on the newby with outrage, (humourously, I hope) but I can understand.
A few years ago I helped start a "swing guitar" club in Toronto. These days if I walked in on a session, there might be only 3 or 4 members who'd know me from Adam. To the vast majority of current members, I'd just be some middle aged guy with a guitar invading their space. If I wanted to be accepted I'd have to take out the instrument, and do some SERIOUS playing. I might feel like putting in the effort, but I might not. But I won't dump on them for writing a bunch of "brand new" Django songs, and perhaps not knowing everything about his life. If I'm friendly, and patient, the odd one will click in that I'm a good resource, and start asking questions. That's probably how my role has evolved in that group.

Change is hard, but it's also good. It's just not good for everybody.

Rick (after a full week of migraine. Jeezus!)


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 04:02 PM

Whatever


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 04:30 PM

That last one of mine was written before I read your, Rick. Point taken and put very well.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 04:37 PM

Well those all piled up at the same time just about.

Rick my friend, you need to have migraines more often.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: bbc
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 04:51 PM

My turn--I haven't been saying much lately & I haven't been readin much lately. The first, too busy & the second, not much of interest to me. Having said that, I have no intention of leaving Mudcat. I value the creative, fun people here & I know that, in time, threads will come around that I want to read & participate in. I'm here for the long haul.

bbc


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Peter T.
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 05:35 PM

Don't listen to that evil Cpaw, Rick. Fewer migraines, all the time, please.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: lloyd61
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:04 PM

Some place up the line someone commented about the "Rosewood" Thread. That thread makes it all worth while! If a thread like that comes around now and then, who can complain about the SB. The BS thread is just a little fun between the Gems. We should be creatful for everyone who wishes to support this site.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:19 PM

Paul, I think your party analogy is pretty apt. Thing to remember is the billing for this Particular Party. Folk and Blues. Some of the folks here, Art included, got to this party at the very beginning, when it was a bit more of a sedate and serious discussion of Music. I came in about 10:15, and had already had a couple beers, so I drifted back and forth between the serious folks in the Living Room, and the newly arrived Party Animals in the Kitchen by the keg. Well, it's about midnight now, the whole party's a bit louder and crazier, but it's a good idea to keep in mind who is giving this party and who was here first. I'm certainly willing to turn my amplifier down so that Art can continue to strum his Martin in the Parlor.I have always been against the "BS" preface for threads, but from here on I will use it when applicable to the ones I create. The least I can do.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: JedMarum
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:26 PM

Excellent post, Rick.

Change happens, even when it is not what we want, it still may be best - and at any rate rate it is.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:34 PM

I like your idea Jeri.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:42 PM

me, too


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:53 PM

In my experience, when a party gets to a point where it isn't enjoyable/interesting anymore, most people leave. Alternatively, retreat to quiet spot and survay the room until they find a converstation of interest. Not that I'm suggesting you leave the Mudcat.

With the exception of the party analogy, this thread is not very interesting to ME, but that's My problem.

This is all so HEAVY!!!!

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Helen
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:54 PM

Rick,

That jsut about says it all, I think.

It's funny to see similar conversations coming up on the e-mail harplist and there has been a split-off group formed for socialising - which is good in some ways and sad in others (if it becomes an either-or choice for participants, I mean).

I always think of Mudcat as a never-ending folk festival.

There are workshops where I can learn stuff, but I only go to the ones I'm interested in. Although if I happen to poke my head around the door I'll usually hang around for a bit because it is all interesting to a degree, it's just that I'm more interested in some things than others.

There are also concerts and creative workshops where people show their talents or use their creative talents and spark off each other's ideas.

And then there is the party in the kitchen where there is more BS than you could believe possible, lots of laughing and gentle poking fun, but not a lot of anger or ill feeling.

And then there is the serious social and political discussion often combined with the song & poetry writing group. I have my thoughts about this stuff but I tend not to join in, for various reasons - not the least of which is I prefer some of the other activities including playing, listening to music or learning stuff.

So, I don't have to be involved completely in every single Mudcat activity to enjoy the festival - I choose what I want to be involved in and the thread, the link, the focus, the hub around which it all revolves, which keeps me involved is folk and blues music.

Helen


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:54 PM

In my experience, when a party gets to a point where it isn't enjoyable/interesting anymore, most people leave. Alternatively, retreat to quiet spot and survay the room until they find a converstation of interest. Not that I'm suggesting you leave the Mudcat.

With the exception of the party analogy, this thread is not very interesting to ME, but that's My problem.

This is all so HEAVY!!!!

Cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Bugsy
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:56 PM

OOps! Sorry, Didn't mean to bore you with the same comment twice. Didn't think it posted first time.

It's a bit like being at a loud party and not being sure whether your comment has been heard above the din!!

Drinks anybody?????

cheers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:59 PM

nothing worth opening?....why, there is a new thread about that renowned folk singer, Bo Diddley!...


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 08:52 PM

I've just counted upmthe current threads with the time tjhintg set at one day. I got to eightfour and I lost count. There are fifteen identified as BS, some of which are very much about musical issues (like copuywright and the Harry Fox agency) and I made it about as many who aren't so identified that would count as such, including this.

The problems isn't so much that the song threads you want are drowned out by the BS thgreads, it's that there are so many song threads around that it's so easy to miss ones you'd like to follow up.Like the Rosewood one, which I had missed, and only found about through this "BS" thread. So it's been a very valuable thread.

I think jeri's idea makes a lot of sense, for it's own sake, and I hope someone will start it up and service it. But I don't think there's any way of avoiding this kind of traffic jam, without losing more than we gain. I was thinking whether it might be possible to have some kind of filtering process for people to use as and when they want to - and then I noticed that "Filter" thingy up the top of the index page, so maybe it's already there. The FAQ guide to navigating the site would be useful.

But even if filtering is available, I doubt if I'd use it much - I like the serendipity aspect of it all, like wandering round the party and overhearing the conversations till you find one that's more interesting than the others. Or listening to the pick-up groups playing in the bars at a festival till you find someone you want to listen to, or join in with.

As for Paul S's comment that one of the things you do when you're bored at a party, or have had enough, or are feeling generally out of sorts, is to leave - I didn't read that as a insult, as him saying "get lost for ever" to Art. Surely he was just elaborating on what actually happens in parties? Especially when it's late at night, like now, here - so I'm off to have a kip, and that doesn't mean I'm feeling grouchy.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: _gargoyle
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 09:45 PM

No doubt, the above threads have said it all....

Folk songs are Dead ---- gossip/BS is New and ALIVE.

With over 8,000 postings there is LITTLE MORE to be said or added to the D.T.that hasn't been said before.

If there were a "better place" I would be there - there is not.

Without a refocusing by dick and Susan (to whom this project has exceeded their expectations and to whom this project is now "old") I am afraid this place will soon pass off into "cyber-history."

It was best that "ol' Hickok" went with "Aces and 8's" or else his poor diabetic/alcoholic shell would have been forgotten in the absurity of the dusty west.


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 09:51 PM

Perhaps a couple of things to keep in mind: Mudcat is NOT life. Life is mortgages, car insurance, illness, kids, friends death and taxes. Mudcat is our HOBBY. It ain't to be taken seriously. I've made some personal friendships here, that have transended cyber-fun and are now part of my ACTUAL life. THAT I take seriously.
Mudcat is full of surprises..so you don't always need to re-act instantly with guns-a-blazin'. If Art came back in here and said "Ha ha! gotcha goin, like I did last time!" I'm sure some folks would would be racing to say "We knew, we knew! We were just kiddin' as well!" If he wasn't kidding, than it seems to me he was being honest and pretty blunt. So what? Paul's response was also honest and pretty blunt. We've got room for honest bluntness here. My God, Easy rider told me I was an "elitist" 'cause I don't think tabliture is a good way to learn guitar. I haven't lost any sleep over it. Gargoyle was on my case for two solid weeks, even said that my teaching approach had probably discouraged people from wanting to play! Oy Vay!..and I'm still standin'. If bluntness and rudeness were the rule here rather than the exception, there'd be very few of us who'd hang around.
Mudcat (like real life)is Constantly contradictory. I can be enjoying a heated "team rant" a few weeks ago with two of the regulars gravely discussing the "problems" here with "BS", and how new people would be turning away in droves because of the diminished traditional content, and less than a day later see them both participating in the very thing they implied was the problem. They seemed happy and chatty. With almost a hundred and fifty new folks identifying themselves a couple of days later, I had to chuckle a bit, and unless the vast majority of those newbies are just not "folkie enough" for our group, I suspect their welcome here was genuine.
The folk music (and Sandy) brought me here, but it's the diversity, the contradictory nature, the fun, the good writing, and the amazingly forgiving nature of the Cat, that keeps me checking in every day. Try to find all that in real life!

Rick


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Subject: RE: Nothing Worth Opening Here Lately
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 09:56 PM

Dear Art
I am a tadpole when it comes to folk music and the depth of knowledge this community has to offers.
Mudcat reminds me of being in synagogue where the religious men are seriously praying in the sanctuary while I don't understand a word they are saying so I join along with some of my friends to horse around in the hall.
I may not be able to participate yet in many of the music threads, but I still feel I am part of this congregation
Little Neo


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