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BS: I am not perfect after all

Musket 31 Jul 13 - 06:08 AM
Pete Jennings 31 Jul 13 - 06:04 AM
Musket 31 Jul 13 - 04:31 AM
akenaton 31 Jul 13 - 04:02 AM
GUEST,Musket gagging 30 Jul 13 - 04:36 PM
akenaton 30 Jul 13 - 01:48 PM
Little Hawk 30 Jul 13 - 12:00 PM
Pete Jennings 30 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM
Musket 30 Jul 13 - 10:52 AM
Little Hawk 30 Jul 13 - 10:09 AM
Musket 30 Jul 13 - 05:45 AM
Musket 29 Jul 13 - 09:19 AM
Jack the Sailor 29 Jul 13 - 05:09 AM
GUEST,Musket curious 29 Jul 13 - 02:36 AM
Jack the Sailor 28 Jul 13 - 06:41 PM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 06:05 PM
GUEST,Musket gettin.. can't be arsed 28 Jul 13 - 05:30 PM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 03:27 PM
Musket 28 Jul 13 - 01:37 PM
Jack the Sailor 28 Jul 13 - 01:18 PM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 01:13 PM
Jack the Sailor 28 Jul 13 - 11:11 AM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 10:51 AM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Musket curious 28 Jul 13 - 09:20 AM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 07:56 AM
akenaton 28 Jul 13 - 06:56 AM
GUEST,Musket being patriotic 27 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM
Jack the Sailor 27 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM
Jack the Sailor 27 Jul 13 - 12:28 PM
GUEST,Musket getting Pissed off now 27 Jul 13 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 27 Jul 13 - 11:43 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 13 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Musket agreeing 27 Jul 13 - 10:12 AM
Jack the Sailor 27 Jul 13 - 09:10 AM
Musket 27 Jul 13 - 07:57 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 13 - 06:18 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 13 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,Musket sans hate 27 Jul 13 - 05:35 AM
akenaton 27 Jul 13 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,Musket curious 27 Jul 13 - 02:53 AM
akenaton 26 Jul 13 - 07:03 PM
GUEST,Musket curious 26 Jul 13 - 06:40 PM
Little Hawk 26 Jul 13 - 05:08 PM
akenaton 26 Jul 13 - 04:49 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 13 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,Musket curious 26 Jul 13 - 02:28 PM
Jack the Sailor 26 Jul 13 - 12:30 PM
akenaton 26 Jul 13 - 12:26 PM
akenaton 26 Jul 13 - 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:08 AM

If I could do it as he does, I wouldn't blame others, I'd join a circus.....


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:04 AM

Blaming it on the dog. Oldest trick in the book!


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:31 AM

I get mine from the retired greyhound trust. It is basically x meat and rice formed into the nuggets. It is low this, that and the other. I used to get the Arden Grange equivalent, as the sanctuary we got him from used it, but the retired greyhound trust variety works out about the same cost and they do OK out of it too.

He does have that physics defying trick of shitting more than he eats. It is often about right (3 or 4 on the Bristol Stool Chart, my time in infection control coming in useful there,) and if it is loose, we can normally attribute it to a treat he may have had. Gravy bones are OK but the biscuits that look like small sausage rolls, give him two and he is off up the garden for a spray.. Delicate stomachs compared to the mongrels we have had in the past so he isn't allowed to have our left overs. The exceptions are the skins when we have poached salmon or any other fish where we aren't fussy about the skin, and when he is off his food, sprinkling a bit of parmesan over the food has him racing to the bowl. His treats for chewing outside include occasional tripe strips and boiled bones.

That said, he regulates himself, rarely over 30KG and rarely below. (At this moment, hot weather etc he isn't eating as much and I can make all the ribcage out, I can usually only see the back two. He is about at his racing weight now, and a Kg more won't hurt.)

His farts though.... It's that defiant look he gives you when he notices that you have caught a whiff.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 04:02 AM

Seriously Ian....if you give him dry food(nuts) as a base, you could try a lower protein variety.
There are special foods for retired racers on the market.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket gagging
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 04:36 PM

Coincidence? The sod has just walked into my study, stretched and farted simultaneously and walked out again.

A precursor for later in the lounge when we settle with a drink and music. He will lay down on his beanbag and be quiet. Before long, my responsible adult or I shall cry "Jesus Christ! Get in the bloody garden now!" "Are you going to mention it to the vet? I would!"

That is the Musket household most nights.

Good night.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:48 PM

The innocent look is the one to beware of......you always know its going to be a right stinker.

Dogs know all about farting and the effect it has on humans.

"Nature always finds a way to get its own back"


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 12:00 PM

In the case of dogs, it's the silent farts you really have to watch out for. Deadly!!! You ask yourself, "My GOD!...WHAT has the wretched thing been eating????"

The dog gazes blandly into the distance...or gives you a mildly inquiring look that says...

"Wot?"


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 11:29 AM

You must have, if you can hear 'em farting.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:52 AM

No further steps required my feathered friend.

I can hear a cockroach fart, never mind the dog. Not sure we even have cockroaches round these parts.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 10:09 AM

Well, that's a relief! One step closer to perfection. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 05:45 AM

This just in!

After weeks of ear drops that don't work and two days of olive oil that does.... Bloody good syringe this morning at the quacks. Perverse ecstasy you know..

The rest of the cotton wool finally came out, (false alarm the other week.)

Not only can I smell it when the dog farts, but I can now have sufficient warning by hearing it...

So, back to being perfect from now on.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 09:19 AM

Yes. I would argue it has colour....


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 05:09 AM

You would argue about the color of the sky.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 02:36 AM

No it isn't. The poster has to be perfect too....


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:41 PM

400th post. Now that is perfection!


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:05 PM

"If the likes of Akenaton didn't bother breathing, the issue he loves to highlight would be less problematical to work on."

That can only mean one thing...no irony...no hypocrisy.
No one is working on solving the problem, everyone is busy papering over the cracks.

Still no answers Ian, seems that there is nothing in the armoury?
If you have nothing but a wish to stop me typing or intimidate me into not putting forward my point of view, your "argument" must be very weak indeed.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket gettin.. can't be arsed
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:30 PM

A few million despicable views amplify the despicable view s few million fold.

Ask me a question that can be answered and I answer it. Prefacing it by saying something isn't working with no knowledge of how it works is not worthy of recognition.

Still breathing? Just wondered, considering you reckon I want you to stop. No. Im pragmatic. I'd rather you stop typing. The breathing bit that you have been repeating around the threads was as you were told to ask you how it felt to be hated. Not nice is it?

Well stop hating.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 03:27 PM

"That's why the likes of Akenaton poison respectable debate. it isn't jus that he has an opinon on gay health, he has repeatedly stated his opinion on gay lifestyle, gay marriage and pours scorn on anybody who disagrees with him as being "liberal."



Ian... are you really naive enough to think Homosexual health issues are not affected by homosexual lifestyle?

Respectable debate?...you dont debate, you have never answered any of the questions which I have asked, your contributions consist of undiluted abuse,

My opinion on male homosexuality is that as long as infection rates for all sexual disease remain at epidemic proportions and rising, it must be viewed as a highly dangerous and unhealthy lifestyle.
Millions share that view....To state that view is neither hateful criminal nor bigoted.

To remain silent on this issue is cowardly and cruel.
The really important thing is to bring the epidemic under control...do you have any ideas on how this is to be acheived...as an antidote to "Education, inclusion, and outreach"?


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:37 PM

Unworkable.

That's the nice term we use when placating right wing politicians.

Occasionally, we smile when our doctors are put on the spot. One of our GU medicine guys told a local MP to drop his trousers and see how he felt when accessing the services.

No. I am diplomatic, believe me. Doesn't mean I suffer fools gladly though.

I love Mudcat because listening to the diveristy of views on many subjects, mainly musical ones but others too, I am delighted when my opinion changes after reflection on debate.

That's why the likes of Akenaton poison respectable debate. it isn't jus that he has an opinon on gay health, he has repeatedly stated his opinion on gay lifestyle, gay marriage and pours scorn on anybody who disagrees with him as being "liberal."

It's usually American GOP tea party types who use "liberal" as an insult. To hear it over here says all you need to know about the man.

By the way, the post was about ear wax. I know that you have gone native in the deep south, but self deprecation and irony shouldn't be too far from being recognised by you. Your first contribution was about ear wax, your second contribution was about my dog. Neither contribution useful, but there you go.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:18 PM

Penalties are not a problem for HIV. There are no legal penalties more severe than contracting a terminal disease.


Ake you are right to be concerned but the "solutions" you suggest are unworkable.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:13 PM

Yes Jack, but for most of the risky examples you post there are extreme legal penalties and the removal of "rights", like the right to hold a driving licence......

I am not advocating isolation, simply compulsory testing(every three months?) and compulsory contact tracing for major "At risk" groups.

The option of doing nothing, does not seem to make sense given the increasing rates of new infections within MSM.

Current procedure relies on male homosexuals volunteering to be tested, with no compulsion to release the names of contacts if they test positive.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:11 AM

iMusket,

This thread for most of us is whether or not you are perfect. See the title.

Akenaton, We have all acknowledged that HIV is a problem. We have all discussed and generally agreed about what is being done.

As far as what can be done. What you seem to be proposing seems impossible short of detention camps to protect your men from their own nature. Keep in mind that HIV is not the only risk arising from the recklessness of young men. Drunk driving, speeding, risky recreation, illicit drug use and violent crime are all highest among young men.

"Education, Inclusion and Outreach" worked for MOST kids my age when I was growing up. It is the only feasible approach available now.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 10:51 AM

"This thread is about ear wax. He hijacked it with bigotry and you and your mates weighed in with Jesus."

Can't speak for Jack, but I wrongly assumed that there was a little more in your head rhan earwax.....apologies.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 10:43 AM

You did not try to debate, as you have no answers to my questions or cohesive argument to use in debate.

This "discussion"(over the last few days), is about the best way to cut death and infection rates amonst homosexuals, these rates must be cut...they are too horrific to be allowed to continue.
The procedures you support, "Education, Inclusion and Outreach"(psychobabble), have been tried for ten years and have failed miserably.....if you can't see that, then you should never have been in your job.
You admit,reluctantly, that males are naturally programmed for procreation, yet deny that male to male sex has the capacity to be very dangerous and unhealthy.
Do you really think that young homosexuals are in a position to regulate themselves?....The facts say otherwise.

When an epidemic is in process, the most important thing is to bring it under control.....Socio-ideology comes a poor second.

I've just thought of a new word that you may find handy as a term of abuse......."Ideologue"


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 09:20 AM

Unlike you I don't have philosophy or other political twaddle to worry about. I like many others plan the logistics for health care to be delivered. No fear, no favour, no judgement. No one in health care would nor indeed could deliver your suggestions.

I was I suppose fairly senior in Dept of Health years ago but now as a director of an NHS trust, I get fed up of having to factor ignorance and ideology of others when planning health care. Not an easy balance but idiots like you don't help.

No you don't hear what Jack is saying. Whenever those you don't like say it, your vicious streak comes through. Nobody wishes you dead so stop this victim complex. It fools no one. Your wish for gay people to be dealt with is bad enough. As I said, I tried to debate with you and failed.

You are beyond decency.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:56 AM

Incidentally...I did not highjack this thread, this was the first reference to homosexuals....by Ian himself!

"The best thing about greyhounds is that they are non judgemental. He even goes up to gay people for a fuss.   I take it yours do too Akenaton?"


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:56 AM

I hear you Jack, But surely the point , Something will HAVE to be done!.....The present procedures are not working.

A 21% increase in MSM hiv infection rates in London between 2011 and 2012... and annual rises in the UK of 10% amongst MSM, simply cannot be allowed to contiue.   To say just carry on with a status quo which is patently useless, is not an option in a civilised society


Regarding Ian, I do not verbally abuse him, wish him dead,or use childish names. The most I have said about him personally is that he is a most "unpleasant fellow" to debate with, but I suppose other less civilised forums are full of such people and we should count ourselves lucky.

The worrying aspect is that someone as agenda driven as Ian, at some stage, appears to have had a position of some authority in our health services. I would like to see our health officials more concerned with saving lives and reducing disease, than furthuring their own socio/political ideology.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket being patriotic
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 02:38 PM

I don't have a position. You have linked to the facts I have tried to put out.

I tried to reason with him. I even took you up on the offer of not being shouty but you know what?

You can't educate pork. Akenaton is convinced secondhand citizens would be the answer to his irrational fear of anybody different. No idea how he leaves the house because there are few as bitter and twisted as he is.

This thread is about ear wax. He hijacked it with bigotry and you and your mates weighed in with Jesus.

Then you wonder why I laugh in people's faces? (Metaphorically speaking. .)

This trying to reason is boring. My thread my rules.

Fuck him.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:39 PM

Musket, Ake, Do you two remember what you are fighting about. Because, other than the issue of Gay Marriage, which has been legally settled in the UK, and other than that each of you is trying to say the other is a wanker or tosser or whatever, there doesn't see to be much daylight between your positions.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:28 PM

"Human rights are less important than death, or a life sentence of disease? "

It looks like the UK already has HIV testing for new admissions to hospitals and GPs are testing in "high risk areas."

Other than looking for stylishly dressed young men and dragging them in off the street or canvassing design and hair studios, there doesn't seem to be much else to be done.



HPA- HIV


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket getting Pissed off now
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:02 PM

When you preface a question with a false assumption there is no answer till you drop said false assumption.





Goofus. Male promiscuity is, to my knowledge as hard wired for continuity as altruism is also. Morals stem from the latter apparently. It seems logical to me. Not an expert though. But if I am typical I certainly believed in try before you buy when I was single. Just like almost everybody else. Most religious abstention is based on resisting temptation, or so I am led to believe.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:43 AM

Musket: "What's sad is male hard wiring for promiscuity, gay or heterosexual."

..and after GENERATIONS, of what works, and what doesn't, in regards to the 'will to survive and reproduce' healthily, which ALL living beings on the planet have in common, mankind has boiled it down to a sense of structure, which gives us the freedom to keep going....they call it morals...and those morals trump promiscuity.
Just a simple fact, by definition.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:24 AM

So, I'll take it that is a YES.. NO..MAYBE then?

Yes Jack, I know what the procedure is, but I was asking Ian, if that procedure is patently not work as in the UK at present, how long should we allow infections to increase and to what levels, before we make testing and contact tracing mandatory for "at risk" groups?

Human rights are less important than death, or a life sentence of disease?


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket agreeing
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 10:12 AM

Thank you. Here also.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:10 AM

The approach to HIV control here has tended to be PSAs for voluntary testing, free testing for the poor and highly publicized prosecution for those who knowingly pass on the infection. Mandatory screening by profile or otherwise is a no go in democracies that take civil rights seriously.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:57 AM

You mentioned the stigma of isolation rooms, not me. I merely informed you that as we understand contact infections better and trust clinical staff to use barrier techniques, isolation becomes less necessary, freeing up room for aerosol infections. You said you didn't feel it discriminatory. I agreed. Pillock.

Contact tracing is carried out on a voluntary basis already. Making it compulsory can only serve to make it less common than it is now. The only time it becomes less than voluntary is when infecting someone as part of what is deemed criminal assault, (unprotected sex knowing you have an infection and failing to warn a partner) and the police reserve the right to investigate for victims. Experience shows that appealing for people to come forward is more successful before the police are involved.

Your idea works in police states such as Cuba as every health initiative is compulsory, hence no extra reason to keep away from the authorities. Their pick up rate is nowhere near their claim, according to WHO.

Failing to answer your questions exposes nothing. You haven't even asked a question that can be answered. If you had, any decent person would have to chisel out your agenda before finding an objective question behind it.

Bigotry isn't in any procedure. it is however in the forefront of your crusade.

I have tried reasoning with you and on that if nothing else, I have failed.

Back in your hole worm.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 06:18 AM

What are you going to do if your policy of "Education, Inclusion and Outreach" continues to fail so dismally? (please answer as failure to do so will expose your position.)

Will any other procedure be regarded as "bigotry"?

Were the Cubans wrong to impliment a policy of isolation, compulsory testing and contact tracing to almost irradicate aids in Cuba, while the epidemic continues to this day in countries which believe in "Education, Inclusion, and Outreach"?

Does your agenda mean more to you than a serious attempt to cut homosexual infection rates?


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:56 AM

"Debasing the important public health issue by being judgemental doesn't help so unless you feel you can alter entrenched positions there is no use in debate. I very much doubt I shall reach a position of "Hey, you know? Bigotry might be the answer after all. "


I have suggested that the homosexual health figures will be affected positively by compulsory hiv testing and contact tracing.
This situation is already being hinted at by both health agencies, if infection rates continue to worsen......how does that make me a bigot?

In reference to my stay in hospital....I was put into isolation and had visits restricted to safeguard other patients....I never considered it discrimination......often the common good overides individual rights?


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket sans hate
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:35 AM

Your blinkered views make you fail to see that I am aware of rises, aware of successes and failures in attempts to address them and in a position to have been involved in weighing up the evidence and trying to find a way forward.

Enforced screening based on judgement of lifestyle is a non starter so no point in debating it. It drives further underground. Many people attend GUM voluntarily for screening already, hence helping the validity of the statistics.

So we are left with education, inclusion and outreach. None of which would be useful if your remedies were tried. My concern is that some politicians listen to such dangerous bilge water. If I thought you unintelligent I wouldn't acknowledge you. I feel you are either misguided and compounding it or not a nice person to begin with. Fucked if I know which. But you aren't helping with your observations. Promoting monogamy and normalising lifestyle are key planks of the attempts to tackle lifestyle contracted STDs. Your failure to do anything other than call it distraction serves only to question your real agenda.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:11 AM

I cant expect you to do anything about my experiences in hospital Ian, nor do I expect you to answer for them.
You continually say that the huge increases in hiv infection amongst male homosexuals are down to "stigma and discrimination" while it seems obvious that "stigma and discrimination" has decreased significantly over the last decade.
Civil union has been available for some time for those who want to pracice monogamy....one does not need to be "married" to be monogamous...but the take up rates are miniscule.

Are you prepared to concede that the extreme promiscuity which seems endemic to male homosexuality, has some relationship to the ever rising infection rates?

My point is that there are massive health problems associated with male to male sex, which need to be addressed in a serious manner.

Issues like "gay marriage" do not allieviate the situation, but are simply a sideshow to divert attention from the real health problems....not for the betterment of homosexuals, but to protect the "liberal agenda".
It seems to me, that this is the reason you try to shift the blame for homosexual health problems away from risky and dangerous behaviour, to almost non-existant "stigma and discrimination"


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 02:53 AM

And some feel they need to give nature a prod.

What questions are you referring to? The ones any sane person would treat with contempt bear no further scrutiny in case debate somehow gives them credence. The others I have tried to give a perspective. I am as angry over your experience of sloppy infection control as I am elsewhere and hopefully gave an overview of slow but sure improvement as I saw it. The conspiracy theory you offered up is far more difficult to go along with. False reporting on clinical matters is a grave charge and the two Mid Staffs nurses who have been struck off this week were for far less crimes than the ones you inferred. False reporting can be genuine but false flag and false analysis can be bad but without malicious intent.

As you and others revel in quoting my name at any opportunity, I don't have the luxury of sensationalism when applied to healthcare so I cannot give credence to conspiracy theory any more than ignoring comments that address real issues in public health that seek to exacerbate the issue.

Anything else whilst I am here?


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 07:03 PM

Why do you never make any attempt to answer a question Ian?

Nature always has a way of getting its own back on humanity


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 06:40 PM

True LH.

What's sad is male hard wiring for promiscuity, gay or heterosexual.

What's beyond the pail is exploiting it for the hatred that has been demonstrated on many threads. The smokescreen of concern has been blown out of the water so many times.

Jack. The argument "fuck off" is strong, non hypocritical and genuine. It portrays a position that leaves the other in no doubt as to your view.   Billy Connolly once said that you never read the phrase "Fuck off, he hinted."

I don't wish to catch flies. I wish to swat them. Debasing the important public health issue by being judgemental doesn't help so unless you feel you can alter entrenched positions there is no use in debate. I very much doubt I shall reach a position of "Hey, you know? Bigotry might be the answer after all. "


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 05:08 PM

It is promiscuity and failure to practice "safe sex" that leads to an increase in STDs.

And what leads to promiscuity? Well, many things do. One thing that appears fairly obvious is that the average man is more inclined toward being promiscuous (having casual sex) than the average woman is...given that women are on average more inclined to look for an emotionally satisfying relationship that provides some longevity and security. (Yes, I realize there are individual exceptions to that, but I'm talking about averages here.)

Therefore, it doesn't surprise me that male homosexuals are more inclined to have many different partners than, for instance, lesbians are...and that male homosexuals are therefore (on average) at greater risk of acquiring and spreading STDs. Also...how many of them bother to practice safe sex (using a condom) when they obviously aren't worried about getting their male partners pregnant?

I don't feel that this has any particular bearing one way or the other on a debate about the merits of gay marriage. It does have bearing on a debate about public health issues, however.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:49 PM

"A loving relationship leading to marriage doesn't increase STDs. Stigmatising does. More published papers on that than you could wave a Shitty stick at."

Oh! so how do you explain the record rates of all sexually transmitted disease amongst male homosexuals, when stigma and discrimination is at an all time low, Civil Union for homosexuals has been made law and homosexual "marriage" is almost on the statute book?........Your theory does not make sense.

I have never said that homosexual marriage would increase sexual disease...that would not make sense either, but neither does it address the problem of the epidemic.

I have always contended that homosexual "marriage" is a divisive smoke screen.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:16 PM

" Debate does."

Telling someone to F-Off is not debate.

Was there a logic course in all of your higher education?

How about psychology? Organizational behavior? Maslow's theory? Dale Carnegie?

You can catch more flies with honey....


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: GUEST,Musket curious
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 02:28 PM

No it doesn't.

Acquiescence doesn't lead to sustainable outcomes. Debate does. Debate starts when the rights of all are a given. Akenaton refers to the hypocrisy trap I laid regarding breathing. I rest my case. I respect him when he respects others.

A loving relationship leading to marriage doesn't increase STDs. Stigmatising does. More published papers on that than you could wave a Shitty stick at.

Other matters. Your filthy hospital was not acceptable. As sn inspector for a few years I saw things that would make your hair curl. No excuses and the only thing I feel content About is being able to effect regime change where we found fault and being a catalyst to improving the patient experience. Mind you, I used to inspect private hospitals too. They have walked a similar improvement path, albeit without media fanfare. Don't think chintzy curtains and air fresheners lead automatically to good care.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:30 PM

We are all adults and opinions expressed here have nearly zero effect outside this forum. There is no good reason to shout and curse here. But doing so undermines ones credibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:26 PM

"Shouty decency"

What is decent about suggesting that it would be better if a fellow member of this forum "stopped breathing"?


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Subject: RE: BS: I am not perfect after all
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 12:19 PM

The hospital was filthy. I turned over a shower mat that had 5mm of hair and shit beneath it, tide marks on the bath I was encouraged to use after a very big hernia operation,excrement on toilet walls never cleaned in the three weeks i was in surgical ward, drain inserted when wound turned septic and no one available to change the bag when it filled with fluid, had to change dressing myself, no nurses on duty.
Bag became full and burst spilling fluid over ward floor...never cleaned till the day I left.
Anyone who complained treated as a pariah, one gentleman complained daily about general lack of cleanliness, nurses mounted a hate campaign informing all new admissions that he was "a troublemaker"

This was no "fantasy", when I became upset about the risk to older patients, some with amputations, the staff nurse took me aside and said "dont worry there are two wards full of it, it's been like that for months ,you probably caught it from one of the "old team".

It was covered up just as the reasons for increased hiv infection are covered up by the agencies....."stigma and discrimination"...Double bollox, its about the extremely promiscuous behaviour which is associated with male to male sexual intercourse and the methods used.
No one wanted to question the failings of the hospital administrators and now no one wants to question the "equality" agenda

"Make sex illegal", what a stupid remark, I suppose it was another of your little "in" jokes, but when sexually transmitted diseases reach epidemic proportions in one tiny sector of the community, questions require to be asked and solutions sought.

Contact tracing and compulsory testing for MSM seems a sensible start to finding a solution, or would you rather look the other way and pretend that all is well in LaLa Land?


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