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BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.

Songwronger 19 Jun 13 - 07:58 PM
Bobert 19 Jun 13 - 08:20 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jun 13 - 08:26 PM
Bobert 19 Jun 13 - 08:28 PM
kendall 19 Jun 13 - 08:29 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jun 13 - 08:32 PM
Greg F. 19 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM
Ed T 19 Jun 13 - 08:45 PM
Bobert 19 Jun 13 - 08:57 PM
Songwronger 19 Jun 13 - 09:06 PM
Songwronger 19 Jun 13 - 09:23 PM
Bobert 19 Jun 13 - 09:35 PM
Bobert 19 Jun 13 - 09:46 PM
Rapparee 19 Jun 13 - 09:52 PM
Songwronger 19 Jun 13 - 10:33 PM
Ron Davies 19 Jun 13 - 10:35 PM
Ebbie 20 Jun 13 - 12:21 AM
GUEST,TIA 20 Jun 13 - 12:51 AM
Don Firth 20 Jun 13 - 01:13 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Jun 13 - 01:14 AM
Don Firth 20 Jun 13 - 02:01 AM
Ron Davies 20 Jun 13 - 09:59 AM
Greg F. 20 Jun 13 - 10:01 AM
Bobert 20 Jun 13 - 10:06 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 20 Jun 13 - 11:08 AM
Elmore 20 Jun 13 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 11:19 AM
Greg F. 20 Jun 13 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 12:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jun 13 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,Grishka 20 Jun 13 - 02:28 PM
olddude 20 Jun 13 - 10:10 PM
Songwronger 20 Jun 13 - 11:29 PM
Amos 20 Jun 13 - 11:35 PM
Songwronger 20 Jun 13 - 11:50 PM
Don Firth 21 Jun 13 - 12:12 AM
Bobert 21 Jun 13 - 09:32 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Jun 13 - 10:38 AM
Ebbie 21 Jun 13 - 11:11 AM
Greg F. 21 Jun 13 - 12:32 PM
Ebbie 21 Jun 13 - 02:08 PM
number 6 21 Jun 13 - 03:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jun 13 - 08:57 PM
Ebbie 22 Jun 13 - 04:09 AM
Musket 22 Jun 13 - 07:19 AM
Ron Davies 22 Jun 13 - 09:20 AM
GUEST 22 Jun 13 - 09:51 AM
GUEST 22 Jun 13 - 09:53 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Jun 13 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,Musket sans etiquette 22 Jun 13 - 10:21 AM
Greg F. 22 Jun 13 - 11:15 AM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 22 Jun 13 - 08:06 PM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Jun 13 - 08:09 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 22 Jun 13 - 08:15 PM
Songwronger 23 Jun 13 - 08:16 PM
Songwronger 23 Jun 13 - 08:47 PM
Ebbie 24 Jun 13 - 12:51 AM
GUEST,Musket sans reliable source 24 Jun 13 - 04:34 PM
Little Hawk 24 Jun 13 - 05:06 PM
GUEST,Musket sans Ian 24 Jun 13 - 05:47 PM
Little Hawk 24 Jun 13 - 06:17 PM
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Subject: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 07:58 PM

The Doublemint Dons are complaining about racism on another thread, and they both seem to think that Obama is the first black president. The numbers on black presidents vary, but this article claims 5. I saw a clip of Prince, the musician, saying there have been 8. Do a web search of this topic and you'll find a lot of information. It would be REALLY nice if the Dons learned a bit of history and stopped their toolish recitation of the racism mantra:

http://www.africaresource.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=666:the-black-presidents-of-united-states-of-america&

Were there other "black" presidents? Some historians have reason to believe people don't really understand the genealogy of past U.S. Presidents. Research shows at least five U.S. presidents had black ancestors and Thomas Jefferson, the nation's third president, was considered the first black president, according to historian Leroy Vaughn, author of Black People and Their Place in World History.

Vaughn's research shows Jefferson was not the only former black U.S. president. Who were the others? Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln, Warren Harding and Calvin Coolidge. But why was this unknown? How were they elected president? All five of these presidents never acknowledged their black ancestry.

Jefferson, who served two terms between 1801 and 1809, was described as the "son of a half-breed Indian squaw and a Virginia mulatto father," as stated in Vaughn's findings. Jefferson also was said to have destroyed all documentation attached to his mother, even going to extremes to seize letters written by his mother to other people.

President Andrew Jackson, the nation's seventh president, was in office between 1829 and 1837. Vaughn cites an article written in The Virginia Magazine of History that Jackson was the son of an Irish woman who married a black man. The magazine also stated that Jackson's oldest brother had been sold as a slave.

Lincoln, the nation's 16th president, served between 1861 and 1865. Lincoln was said to have been the illegitimate son of an African man, according to Leroy's findings. Lincoln had very dark skin and coarse hair and his mother allegedly came from an Ethiopian tribe. His heritage fueled so much controversy that Lincoln was nicknamed "Abraham Africanus the First" by his opponents.

President Warren Harding, the 29th president, in office between 1921 and 1923, apparently never denied his ancestry. According to Vaughn, William Chancellor, a professor of economics and politics at Wooster College in Ohio, wrote a book on the Harding family genealogy. Evidently, Harding had black ancestors between both sets of parents. Chancellor also said that Harding attended Iberia College, a school founded to educate fugitive slaves.

Coolidge, the nation's 30th president, served between 1923 and 1929 and supposedly was proud of his heritage. He claimed his mother was dark because of mixed Indian ancestry. Coolidge's mother's maiden name was "Moor" and in Europe the name "Moor" was given to all blacks just as "Negro" was used in America. It later was concluded that Coolidge was part black.

The only difference between Obama and these former presidents is that none of their family histories were fully acknowledged by others.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:20 PM

Cool...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:26 PM

Well, it's all a matter of perception, right? You're not "black", "communist", "liberal", "gay", "Christian" or anything else in the public perception unless a lot of people in the media start saying you are. See? It's really very simple. ;-) It's also a waste of everybody's time bothering to worry about it, but that's another matter! ;-) When it is advantageous for a political party to run a "black" candidate, you'll hear about him being black. When it isn't, you won't. When it's advantageous for the other party to attack him for being black, you'll hear about that too. When it isn't, you won't. Merely a matter of perception. It would have been fatal to a presidential candidate's chances of being elected in the 1800s...or until quite recently...but there's been a big shift in racial perceptions since around the late 1960s, early 1970s.

This makes me hopeful that Chongo Chimp will be taken seriously as a candidate by...hmmm...maybe 2032? But entrenched specism being what it is, I think we'll most likely have a female (human) president first.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:28 PM

Problem with this is that Redneck Nation doesn't have a clue that any president before Obama has "mixed blood"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:29 PM

It shows in Harding alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:32 PM

Some people in the African-American community spoke of Bill Clinton as the first "black" president...not sure if they meant racially or in his general "attitude", but he was certainly well-liked across that demographic.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM

ShitWringer, this bullshit is over the edge, even for you. And that's saying something.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:45 PM

Interesting. And, I had previously thought they were all just saw themselves as Americans:)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 08:57 PM

Actually, I understand the wrongman's line of offense here... He is trying to water down the charges of racism against those who hate Obama... If he pulls that off then race is off the table...

Problem is that race is very much on the table here...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:06 PM

It's on the table of your flat forehead maybe, but not to others. You're a racist, Bobert. You stoke racism at every opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:23 PM

I've set up a perfectly nice new thread for the race mongers here. Bobert, the Dons, some others. You folks bring up Obama's race every time his name is mentioned, so here, a whole thread about nothing but blacks and the presidency. Shit your racist thoughts out here, so people won't have to track through them on other threads.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:35 PM

You don't know squat about me, wrongman, so shut the fuck up...

I'll match your resume' any day of the week in civil rights involvement...

You are the hater here... Not me, SongKKKer...

Square business...

Oh, BTW, when it comes to civil rights, you ain't qualified to carry my fucking jock strap...

You are a KKKer in sheep's clothing...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:46 PM

Oh, and if you wish to come out of your hole and be transparent, like I am, wrongerman, then we can go toe to toe on ***verifiable*** things we have been involved in in our respective lives in pushing for civil rights...

Square business, Mister Wantabe...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 09:52 PM

None of this is news. As was stated earlier, I thought they were all Americans.

Ain't NOBODY NOWHERE of "pure" blood -- if for no other reason than all that rapin' that went on by various invading armies.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 10:33 PM

Bobert has accidently slobbered something close to a good point, about the civil rights movement. The elites have tapped into you oldtimers' memories of the civil rights movement from the sixties and made you think you're reliving that time by supporting their candidate Obama. Obama is a representative of the banks, but millions of you people have been duped into viewing him as the second coming of MLK. He's not. He's a representative of the big banks, a liar, and a mass-murdering psychopath (same as white man George W. Bush, I want to point out). But you old civil rights activists think you're doing some kind of good by supporting the abomination of Obama. Seems you'd be brighter.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jun 13 - 10:35 PM

I have a book titled Negro President, about Jefferson.   Author's argument is somewhat different from that of the illustrious OP:   author points out that the only reason Jefferson was elected in 1800 is the 3/5/ rule.    That rule resulted in quite a few Southern presidents before the Civil War.

Of course the 1800 election was controversial for other reasons also;   notably the wink-wink quasi-assurances made by Jefferson to some Federalists, in contrast to Burr's refusal to promise anything in advance.    Which doomed Burr's chances to be president, but did nothing to stop Jefferson's bitter resentment of Burr, which he acted on from then on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:21 AM

Ron, would you elucidate? In what way did the 3/5 rule impact presidential hopefuls?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:51 AM

Songwronger
Where were all your anti-Bush threads during the last administration? Oddly enough, I think I overlooked them somehow.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 01:13 AM

My problem is not race.

My problem is with people who rage and spit about anything and everything that President Obama says and does, and/or accuse him of things he had nothing to do with. Then it becomes obvious that there is more going on here than matters of straight politics.

And when they rage and spit to excess, such as posting screed after screed on Mudcat, one wonders what their problem is—especially when you have heard people you know are racists make similar accusations. But of course they never admit what they're really bent out of shape about, but it's patently obvious.

But they really go ape if you suggest that there may be something racist about their animosity toward the President.

And they spend so much time posting their screeds that you really wonder if they ever have anything worthwhile to do.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 01:14 AM

I once had a Dalmatian, I took it in...so I didn't know its real name...so I called it 'Paradise'....which of you looked at it with his black spots on white, actually made him look like his REAL name, 'Pair O' Dice'...but all in all, he was just a Dalmatian....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:01 AM

A family was sitting around of an evening watching a DVD of Shakespeare's MacBeth on their television set.

When the play got to the part where Lady MacBeth is unsuccessfully attempting to wash the blood off her hands and cries out, "Out, damned spot! Out, I say!" the family's Dalmatian, who had been lying in front of the TV set, got up, looked guiltily at the screen, then went down into the basement.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 09:59 AM

3/5 rule:    from Negro President, by Gary Wills p 2:   "The negotiated agreement "(necessary for the Constitution to be accepted in the South) "stated that each slave held in the United States would count as three-fifths of a person--the so-called federal ratio--for establishing the representation of a state in the House of Representatives (and consequently in the Electoral College, which was based on the House and Senate numbers for each state in Congress."

As you know, slavery was the original sin of the US.

So, as a Federalist pointed out, a planter with 100 slaves could be considered as having sixty votes, while a Northerner without slaves but with equal or greater property had only one vote. This gave the slave states huge power.    For various reasons stemming in large part from this, between Washington's election and 1850, slaveholders controlled the presidency for 51 of the 62 years.



More later if I have time.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:01 AM

In what way did the 3/5 rule impact presidential hopefuls?

You're kidding, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:06 AM

Yo, wrongman...

You are wrong again... But you are very good at being wrong... Your little right wing rant about old civil rights folks supporting Obama because he is black is pure TeaKK shit... It's exactly the kinda stuff that rednecks all over say... It might make you feel all warm and fuzzy but that's all... It's just noise...

Again, I challenge you to come out from behind the curtain and tell us what you have or are doing to promote civil rights...

Never mind, I already know...

Absolutely nothing to promote and everything you can to hurt the movement, which BTW, ain't about Obama and BTW, Part 2, is an on going struggle...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:08 AM

""How were they elected president? All five of these presidents never acknowledged their black ancestry.""

So they wouldn't have been elected if they had openly acknowledged their ancestry?

And you lot want rid of the one who did!

Nothing changes!

And Shitwringer is too dim to realise he has just proved his racism.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Elmore
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:12 AM

This thread depresses me. Makes me feel like we're losing ground in the ongoing struggle for equality and brotherhood. Makes me long for the good old days when bigots like Songwronger had the decency to be hypocritical.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:19 AM

Could someone please enlighten us which of the OP's claims are accepted by serious historians, if any? The "Negro President", as we have seen, was thus nicknamed because slaveholders elected him with additional weight for their slaves (who of course were not allowed to vote themselves).

It would indeed be important if a president actually knew about his slave ancestors, and perhaps some of his voters shared that knowledgs. Wikipedia does not seem to know anything of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:30 AM

which of the OP's claims are accepted by serious historians

Happy to oblige. None.


(and please ditch Blog-O-Pedia, ESPECIALLY on this subject.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 12:03 PM

Thanks Greg. I suspected so, not only from W., but from some arbitrary googling. I am not exactly sure whether Mudcat is the most trustworthy source either (except of course for the proven facts that I invented myself), but it helps my understanding of this thread that it seems to be about hot air entirely.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 01:34 PM

Ho hum. Obama is a mongrel. Like most of us.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 02:28 PM

Actually there exists no notion of a human of "pure race". A dog breeder told me that a thoroughbred poodle is not characterized by all ancestors being poodles - how could they? - but by certain genes being inherited from both parents alike, as defined by the breeder who created the "race".

The more interesting question for presidents is whether they have a consciousness of slaves in their close ancestry, because that will inevitably "colour" their view of the world. Obama does not seem to qualify here, although some kind of "slave", in 17th century, was alleged in his mother's line on another Mudcat thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 10:10 PM

Well since the earliest humans ever found were in Africa it is safe to say that we are all black somewhere in our history. Me I like to think we are all people so who the fuck cares what races we all stem from in our past.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:29 PM

The article in the original post referenced a book called Black People and Their Place in World History, by historian Leroy Vaughn. I looked up some articles on the subject after seeing a video of Prince talking about it. He said he learned about the black presidents from a video by activist Dick Gregory. I couldn't testify to the veracity of any of it, but it sounds likely. We're all mixed race. And it seems silly to call Obama black when he himself calls says he's mixed race. His True Believers have been conditioned to shout down all opposition with cries of racism, and that gets tedious, as does their claim that he's the "first black president."


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Amos
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:35 PM

Historically anyone who became President was subject to any imaginary calumny his opponents and enemies could dream up, and it was very common for these to include insults concerning genealogy. Such insults were often dreamed up out of whole cloth and circulated to impress those who were mindless enough to care about racial lineage rather than merit in the present.

The point is that being able to find a letter or other paper accusing someone of having alien blood in his veins is no guarantee whatsoever that such a proposition has any more merit than a gnat;s fart in a hurricane.

Furthermore, the fact that people were racist as all get-out two hundred years ago has no bearing on the ugliness of racism in today's world. Past racism does not modify current racism, except to show the breeding from which it is inherited, a half-wit sad-sack dim-bulb sort of legacy and nothing to be proud or arrogant about.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Jun 13 - 11:50 PM

But the civil rights codgers from the sixties have had their thinking hijacked. To get their limp-dicked enthusiasm up once again, the Obama machine played the race card. And you old farts fell for it. Obama is not a black man and he's not a white man, he's a corporate man. Owned and operated by Goldman Sachs.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:12 AM

There was a period when things got pretty hot in the Civil Rights movement and a number of overenthusiastic black militants—including Dick Gregory—got a little too adamant about who was black and who wasn't. For example, someone claimed that all the great classical musicians, Beethoven, Bach, Mozart, etc. were black. Most of the world's scientists and inventors, the claim went, where also black. And they set up a howl over Elizabeth Taylor's portraying of Cleopatra in the movie of the same name, claiming that Cleopatra was Egyptian—African—hence, black.

Small problem there. Cleopatra was a member of the Ptolemy family and the Ptolemy family was Greek. And most of the rulers of Egypt from Alexander the Great (who founded the city of Alexandria), until the Roman Empire took over, where of Greek ancestry.

Also, the same claim was made about several of the more prominent U. S. Presidents. So the subject of this thread is pretty old stuff.

Actually, there was a Mudcat thread some time ago in which someone claimed that a black man had invented the guitar sometime in the 1800s. But there were waisted instruments called "gitarras" as far back as the 1200s. Then the 4-course Renaissance guitar and the 5-course Baroque guitar before the modern guitar with six single strings appeared in the late 1700, early 1800s.

I've seen a continuing series on PBS about tracing peoples' genealogy, and it turns out that an incredible number of black people have white ancestors—AND an incredible number of white people, Europeans and Americans, have black ancestry.

So—what's the big kerfuffle?

Other than that Obama is a Democrat and that his black ancestry is a bit more obvious. Which some people can't stand.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 09:32 AM

I am one of those "civil rights codgers from the sixties" and guess what, wrongman... As per usual you are wrong with your thinking and sound very ignorant by sharing your thinking with others...

Most "civil rights codgers from the sixties" have been involved with "civil rights" all of our lives and continue to do what we can to promote "civil rights"...

You, on the other hand, are the enemy... Your behavior here is neo-Klanish...

(Oh, horrors, Bobert... Doesn't that make you some kind of racist for saying that???)

Well, that seems to be the the current talking point from the neo-Klan people... If they go on and on with their hatred of Obama and anyone speaks up in support of Obama that person is accused of not only being a racist but also accuse of voting for and/or supporting Obama because he is black and therefore must be a racist???

Uh huh??? Talk about delusional thinking... This is delusional thinking on crack...

No, I don't buy wrongman's neo-Klan talking points...

Oh, and again I challenge wrongman to step out from behind the rock where he feels comfortable lobbing his neo-Klan mortar rounds and tell us just what his "classless and free" ass has done in his life to promote "civil rights"...

But he is a coward so he won't do that...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:38 AM

His True Believers have been conditioned to shout down all opposition with cries of racism, and that gets tedious, as does their claim that he's the "first black president."

Songwronger is playing rhetorical head games, he hates Obama so much that he doesn't even want to credit him as the first African American to break through the color barrier and make it to office. Perhaps he feels that Obama was elected because of all of those 1960s knee-jerk liberal civil rights folks and he wants to try to take away what he thinks they were voting for by suggesting they were too dumb to know their country's history or to acknowledge men of color in the office in the past.

What a jerk. He posts an opinion piece to start this pseudo-discussion, without a single citation with it, nothing to back it up, and suggests that everyone in the nation was in on it during those earlier elections, all knowing that other presidents with (apparently substantial?) black ancestry were in office and no one cared.

Blood quantum is the term used when American Indians argue about Indianness, how much is enough to be included in some tribes, and yet an individual can be 100% "American Indian," because they are half Sioux and half Blackfeet, they are kicked out of both reservations because you can't have the mixed blood. (That is a made up example, but true life accounts of this abound.) If you really wanted to know about his blood history, he should have been an Indian because Indians themselves have been put in the position by the greater American culture and the absurd treaties with each nation to fight over who gets the crumbs. African Americans were never offered landed settlements like reservations so the fight is different, but there are many cognates between the two. America has a long history of breaking down percentages of blackness, down to terms like "Quadroon" to assign percentages.

From Wikipedia:
Quadroon, and the associated words octoroon and quintroon are terms that, historically, were applied to define the ancestry of people of mixed-race, generally of African and Caucasian ancestry, but also, within Australia, to those of Aboriginal and Caucasian ancestry. The terms were used in law and government to provide a precise code of discrimination and the determination of rights. The use of such terminology is a characteristic of hypodescent, which is the practice within a society of assigning children of mixed union to the ethnic group which is perceived by the dominant group as being subordinate.[1] The racial designations refer specifically to the number of full-blooded African ancestors, emphasizing the quantitative least, with quadroon signifying that a person has one-quarter black ancestry, etc.

Hindsight and DNA may reveal family histories for previous presidents that show mixed-race ancestry, but either they were unaware or they were passing, because it did not turn up during elections or they wouldn't have been voted into office under the racial biases in place in the U.S. through history.

Songwronger uses logical fallacies to set up discussions then presides over the mess like a demented puppet master. Next time he starts a thread, let it drift off the page without a single response.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 11:11 AM

My question, Greg F, is: With the Southern states' superior voting power resulting from the 3/5 rule and they thus being able to elect a disproportionate number of presidents, why would they have installed presidents with known 'Black' blood? As they used to say, Southern men don't care how close the Black man gets, as long as he doesn't get too high and Northern men don't care how high the Black man gets, as long as he doesn't get too close. So why would Southern men elevate a Black man?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 12:32 PM

So why would Southern men elevate a Black man?

Obviously, they would not have done and did not do so. Just more ShitWringer nonsense, Ebbie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 02:08 PM

k!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: number 6
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 03:43 PM

"Hey, you know something people?
I'm not black,
But there's a whole lots a times
I wish I could say I'm not white. "

.... excerpt from Trouble Everyday by Frank Zappa


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 08:57 PM

I suppose if a woman gets to be President, and runs up against attacks based on her being a woman, Songwronger will post here denouncing anyone who objects to that kind of abuse, on the gounds that it's sexist describing her as the first woman President, since all the others were half female on their mother's side...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 04:09 AM

lol, Kevin.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 07:19 AM

Same here in The UK you know. Some of our Prime Ministers passed the port to the left, others to the right. We were all taught they all had the appropriate sense of decorum to know instinctively how to behave, but photos reveal some were   etc etc.

Am I missing something here?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 09:20 AM

Yes, you are missing something here.   Did you actually read the thread?

Is there any reason you feel compelled to comment on a subject without even trying to do any research on it? In this case, all you would have had to do is read the thread and you would know the value of even bringing up the topic.    Is this by some chance your standard of intellectual rigor? If so, it threatens to make folks have to discount your contributions on other topics also.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 09:51 AM

Prince never said there were 8 black presidents, fool. He said there were at least 8 presidents before George Washington. There were presidents before Washington but they were constitutional presidents. In fact, John Hancock's signature is so prominent of the Declaration of Independence because he was the president at the time it was signed.

Why did none of the rest of you stupid fools catch that instead of giving this asshole more bandwidth to spout off his racist bullshit? I'm more pissed at you than him. Get your heads out of your fucking asses or DON'T PARTICIPATE!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 09:53 AM

"but they were" NOT "constitutional presidents"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 10:07 AM

I took it that Musket's comment about passing the port was meant as a reminder that in England the obsession with race that is prevalent in the US is largely overshadowed by an obsession with class, which is equally daft, and perhaps more obviously so when viewed from the outside.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Musket sans etiquette
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 10:21 AM

For me, I'd have been happier to let Ron look an idiot.

Mind you, I can be too cryptic at times, I admit.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 11:15 AM

The omniscient Simple Seeker After Truth look like an idiot?

Impossible.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 08:06 PM

Har! Har! ;-D Good one.

Hey, let's not forget Morgan Freeman's winning portrayals of the President of the USA in various Hollywood movies. Nobody makes a more convincing president than him...except maybe for me. Hell, I would vote for Morgan Freeman in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't? Jimmy Hoffa, that's who...and where is Jimmy Hoffa now?

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 08:09 PM

I imagine Jimmy Hoffa would have been quite ready to vote for Morgan Freemman, if there was an appropriate deal involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 08:15 PM

Hmm. Good point. I think yer right.

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:16 PM

Apparently Michelle Obama said something about being from Ireland. The mystery deepens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIMucHfUMyg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 08:47 PM

The tax dodger she refers to at the beginning is the musician Bono.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 12:51 AM

"The protest has been provoked by U2's decision to move their multi-million-pound music and publishing business away from Ireland – thus allegedly avoiding taxes on record sales."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1394422/Saint-Bono-facing-huge-Glastonbury-protest--avoiding-tax.html#ixzz2X6duChvF


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Musket sans reliable source
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 04:34 PM

Fair doos Ebbie.

But have you a link to any information about this? I can't see any in your post. I see a link to The Daily Ma&l but on past record, a story there doesn't exactly invite the effort of comment?

If they say Bono avoids it, he must pay shitloads of tax?

If anyone thinks this goes off on a tangent, think on. Bollocks is bollocks is bollocks.

Though Bono and The Edge are hypocrites of the first order. I saw The Edge buy a round in Johnny Foxes and ask for a receipt. He had been preaching about propping up the Celtic tiger 10 mins earlier.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:06 PM

Look, the "Black President" thing has been done now, okay? Like the Hula Hoop and the Beanie Baby, it has had its wonderful historical moment and the thrill is gone. A brand new marketing angle is needed to re-invigorate the thrill of going out to vote for a new stuffed shirt in the Whi...uh, I mean a new American president, and I think I know what it is: a female president!!!!!!!! Yessir. Why not? Why not indeed? Hillary has been dropping little hints about it. The ground is being prepared even as I speak.

After that, then what? How about a(n openly) gay president? That would be simply incredibly cool and progressive! Transplendent is what I would call it! To NOT vote for such a candidate would be definite proof of homophobia!!!

So, let's figure on an officially gay president in about 11 years from now...one with a married gay partner and a couple of adopted kids...preferably a Hispanic kid and a Black kid.

And after that? Hmmmm. Well, after that the field should be clear for Chongo Chimp to vault to the presidency with no trouble at all, because all the useful human stereotypes will have been pretty well exhausted (aside from a Muslim jihadist), and it'll be time to vote for a Chimp, and PROVE you're not a specist once and for all!

Heh! Heh!

Meanwhile, Canada's already had a female prime minister (though she wasn't in office very long, and she wasn't elected in a national vote, only in a party convention...but still...we beatcha to it eh?). Eat yer hearts out, Yanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 05:47 PM

Mmmm Female Prime Minister. ....

Why didn't we think of that?













$^^$!!!   *&/&£€%!^ and and as for her /&&% $ policies.      /=$#@!!&


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Subject: RE: BS: The Black Presidents of the U.S.A.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 06:17 PM

Yes, Maggie Thatcher really stood out, didn't she? Now THAT was a national leader NO ONE could afford to ignore! That's what Chongo would be too.

"You betcha." - Sarah Palin


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