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BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden

Bobert 22 Aug 13 - 10:12 AM
Bobert 22 Aug 13 - 10:09 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 22 Aug 13 - 09:25 AM
GUEST 21 Aug 13 - 11:34 PM
Greg F. 21 Aug 13 - 06:05 PM
GUEST,Guessed 21 Aug 13 - 05:24 PM
GUEST,9 21 Aug 13 - 01:00 PM
Bobert 20 Aug 13 - 08:44 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 20 Aug 13 - 08:30 PM
Songwronger 20 Aug 13 - 07:58 PM
Songwronger 15 Aug 13 - 07:32 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Aug 13 - 08:35 AM
Songwronger 12 Aug 13 - 09:32 PM
Songwronger 11 Aug 13 - 11:06 PM
GUEST 11 Aug 13 - 10:25 PM
Songwronger 11 Aug 13 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,CS 29 Jul 13 - 07:42 AM
Songwronger 28 Jul 13 - 11:48 PM
GUEST 26 Jul 13 - 11:37 PM
GUEST 26 Jul 13 - 07:07 PM
GUEST 26 Jul 13 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,SJL 25 Jul 13 - 06:47 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Jul 13 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,SJL 25 Jul 13 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,SJL 25 Jul 13 - 06:40 AM
Songwronger 24 Jul 13 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,SJL 23 Jul 13 - 10:32 PM
GUEST,SJL 23 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,CS 23 Jul 13 - 03:26 AM
Songwronger 22 Jul 13 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,CS 20 Jul 13 - 02:11 PM
Greg F. 20 Jul 13 - 11:00 AM
bobad 20 Jul 13 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,CS 19 Jul 13 - 09:42 AM
Songwronger 18 Jul 13 - 08:09 PM
GUEST,CS 18 Jul 13 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Don Wise 18 Jul 13 - 10:24 AM
GUEST,SJL 18 Jul 13 - 04:42 AM
GUEST 17 Jul 13 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,SJL 17 Jul 13 - 10:15 AM
number 6 16 Jul 13 - 11:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Jul 13 - 05:37 PM
GUEST 16 Jul 13 - 04:16 PM
number 6 16 Jul 13 - 09:54 AM
Greg F. 15 Jul 13 - 02:43 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Jul 13 - 02:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Jul 13 - 02:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 13 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,SJL 15 Jul 13 - 10:41 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 10:12 AM

BTW, guess who else is collecting data on American citizens???

1. Your credit card companies...

2. Your internet provider...

3. Facebook...

4. Websites to visit, including Mudcat...

5. Mail order catalogs...

6. Google

7. Yahoo

8. Etc...

Where's the outrage???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 10:09 AM

Data does not mean listening in to phone conversations or reading one's emails...

And...

...500...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Aug 13 - 09:25 AM

""'It is the duty of a patriot to protect his country from its government'
Thomas Paine
""

Thomas Paine was an Englishman who doesn't seem to have cared about his country much, since he left it.

So that quote is either bogus (never said), or an example of political hypocrisy.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 11:34 PM

MSNBC in the USA has been covering the topic of the NSA's "mistakes."

Quoting from articles in the Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times, the NSA apparently and (supposedly) mistakenly collected thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of content data on Americans not suspected of any terrorist activity whatsoever, including email and cell phone content.

In the timeline of lies pertaining to this scandal, first it was, Nope, we're not doing it. Then it went to We're doing it but it's only metadata. As the scandal unfolds, what lies will the NSA have to amend in the future?


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 06:05 PM

Only one problem, Guessed - that quote is bogus- Thomas Paine never said any such thing. You get that from some random teabagger, or from Glenn or Rush?


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,Guessed
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 05:24 PM

'It is the duty of a patriot to protect his country from its government'
Thomas Paine


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,9
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:00 PM

True about Boss Hog, but you yourself agreed that what NSA has been doing is just ticketyboo with you. So your line seems to follow whatever policy your government hands out. My country, right or wrong. Yippee! I also recall being one of a very few people here who did his best to talk you into supporting Obama instead of voting green. For that I apologize, but I'm not going to buy the revisionist history, Bobert.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:44 PM

I don't see Obama as a puppet at all...

When he came to Washington, he set up household in his office... He didn't party... He spent his night reading legislation... He slept in his office...

Hardly the resume' you expect for a puppet... Bush was the puppet... He was to ignorant of facts to know ehn he was being played... Obama hasn't been played...

Of course, the Obam haters want to portray him as being played... That fits their right wing narrative...

Obama has discovered that there aren't many tools in his tool box to make the changes that America needs... The biggest one that he has is as commander-in-chief... Bush used it... Obama hasn't... I'll take Obama's not using it... Yeah, along with Karl Rove and Dick Cheney's meddling Bush used his that power to gain more power... Obama has avoided that route and deserves credit for doing so... Does anyone think that McCain wouldn't have used that tool???

Historians will get if right on Obama... He ain't no puppet... He's just a victim of terrible timing... He said after he was first elected, "I didn't run for this job thinking that I'd have to deal with a failing economy"... That is telling... It has ruined his opportunity to take the country to where we need to be...

Lets' just keep reality in some perspective...

Biden??? Hey, I worked 3 Green Party presidential campaigns... The last one (2000) as a precinct captain but...

...I'd go to work for Biden tomorrow...

Ya' see... The US is under an all out assault by the Boss Hog and even if I ain't 100% into the Dems or Biden I am 100% against stopping this assault first... Stop them and then it's back to the Green Party for me...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 08:30 PM

All very disturbing Songwronger but remember, Obama's just a puppet. He's not running anything.

One serious obstacle to Obama is the influence of Joe Biden. If you look at Biden's record, you'll see that he is a Constitution trasher rivaling Cheney. He hides his evil under a charming/buffoonish exterior.

http://killfile.newsvine.com/_news/2008/08/25/1783040-in-1995-joe-biden-basicall

http://www.examiner.com/article/joe-biden-falsely-claimed-he-voted-against-afgha

Can we talk about Joe Biden? Tell me what you think of him.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 07:58 PM

Congressman Dennis Kucinich Calls for Shutting Down NSA

WASHINGTON D.C.- Former Congressman Dennis Kucinich commented on the NSA's mass surveillance scandal at the sold out D.C. film premiere of the new online privacy film "Terms and Conditions May Apply." Speaking to audience members at the post-screening panel discussion at the West End Cinema, Kucinich called for shutting down the NSA, ticker-tape parades for whistleblower Edward Snowden and accountability for Director of National Intelligence James Clapper's perjury before Congress....

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Congressman-Dennis-Kucinic-by-Dennis-Kucinich-130820-136.html


Obama, the secrets of the state, and the persecution of Edward Snowden

On August 9, President Barack Obama opened his press conference with a defense of the National Security Agency's spying on the American people. Once again, Obama resorted to lying and dissembling in defense of his administration's actions. Referring to the Patriot Act, he declared that "it does not allow the government to listen to any phone calls without a warrant." Whatever it is that the Patriot Act may or may not formally allow, Obama ignored the indisputable fact that the government is listening in to tens of millions of phone calls every day.

The most striking feature of Obama's remarks is what they revealed about the president himself. Obama is the personification of the state military-intelligence bureaucracy....

We have been told that Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago. One can only wonder what his lectures on the subject consisted of. The press conference of August 9 gave no indication that he understands, or that he is concerned with, the US Constitution....

The media is nothing more than the means of disseminating corporate-state propaganda. The fusion of state intelligence agencies and media news is epitomized by such figures as Bill Keller, Thomas Friedman, and C.J. Chivers of the New York Times, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, and the ineffably disgusting Wolf Blitzer of CNN. Today, there is mounting outrage over the tweet sent out on Saturday night by Mike Grunwald, a senior national correspondent of Time Magazine, in which he wrote: "I can't wait to write a defense of the drone strike that takes out Julian Assange."

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/20/lect-a20.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 15 Aug 13 - 07:32 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2cu6oDhKc&feature=player_embedded

Video of a man confronting his congressman about the NSA lies.

He addresses what was brought up in the Reuters report--that the NSA is passing its intelligence on to the FBI and the DEA so that those agencies can create criminal cases against U.S. citizens. Criminal cases. The whole justification for intelligence gathering since 9/11 has been to fight terrorists, and now the NSA is tapping your phones and looking at your emails for run of the mill criminal cases. While Obama jokes on a comedy program that there's no spying.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Aug 13 - 08:35 AM

""According to Reuters reports published last week, information gathered by the National Security Agency (NSA)—including electronic wiretaps and phone records—is being shared with the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), a division of the Justice Department.""

There you have it folks!

Songwronger (real name hidden to protect him from prosecution) doesn't want the DEA to catch drug smugglers and dealers.

Probably doesn't want his supply cut off.

It must be some great shit, considering the hallucinations he has.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Aug 13 - 09:32 PM

From today:

The subversion of due process in America

August 12, 2013

The Obama administration is using information obtained through its illegal surveillance programs to target Americans for criminal investigations unrelated to terrorism.

According to Reuters reports published last week, information gathered by the National Security Agency (NSA)—including electronic wiretaps and phone records—is being shared with the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA), a division of the Justice Department. A shadowy interagency unit that includes the DEA, the FBI and the NSA, called the Special Operations Division (SOD), uses this information to target US citizens for investigation and prosecution, including for narcotics crimes....

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/12/surv-a12.html


The Reuters report referenced above:

Exclusive: U.S. directs agents to cover up program used to investigate Americans

August 5, 2013

A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans.

Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805


So now Obama's given us a new alphabet agency of boogeymen--the SOD. Seems appropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 11:06 PM

Is Obama a true psychopath? There's a clip of him saying they don't spy on the American people, but there's this from back in June:

He (Obama) characterized the NSA's daily collection of telephone records of all customers of the major US telephone companies, first revealed Wednesday by the British Guardian newspaper, and the NSA and FBI's tapping into the servers of major Internet companies to access emails, photos, chats and documents, exposed Thursday by the Guardian and the Washington Post, as a "modest encroachment" on constitutionally protected privacy rights.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/08/pers-j08.html

So is he nuts or just a bad liar?


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 10:25 PM

It's a vicious circle.

The USA (United Security Agency) blows up people the NSA (National States of America) says are terrorists. The terrorists respond by recruiting new terrorists to plot and occasionally carry out successful attacks on US interests. The USA says we need more intrusions into privacy and more drone strikes to keep us all secure from the growing number of new terrorists. The new terrorists respond by recruiting more terrorists to counter the intrusions into privacy and the increasing number of drone strikes, and occasionally carry out successful attacks against US interests, and the USA responds ... like a snake eating its tail. An old metaphor, but apropos.

(Also see Einstein's definition of insanity and the definition of the word internecine)....

By the by, waaay back in 2008 during Obama's campaign, wasn't Obama skewered by McCain for having the audacity and naivete' to suggest that if he were president he might be open to some sort of ...ummm...dialogue with people with whom we don't exactly see eye-to-eye? Gee, what a novel idea, an idea so basic kindergarten teachers employ this strategy all the time to resolve playground conflicts. An overture to a discussion with the Chief Terrorist in Charge at the moment couldn't hurt Obama's credibility any worse with the Republicans - they think he's part terrorist anyway. If nothing else, he could begin with a simple apology to Iran's new president (what a nice way to say congrats on your recently won election) for that dirty little CIA trick we pulled on them back in the 'fifties that resulted in, well... the current crappy relations the US has with Iran.

And, if the Israel/Palestine thing doesn't pan out (ahem), rumor has it Obama's pondering what his legacy might be and it sure wouldn't hurt him in that department if, in his obligatory presidential library, we could someday read about how he took the first hesitant baby steps toward negotiations to end global terrorism. Hell, he might even win another Nobel Peace Prize for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 11 Aug 13 - 05:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BaxkPTdRuY

33-second video. Obama on Jay Leno's show.:

"A lot of these programs were put in place before I came in. I had some skepticism, and I think we should have some healthy skepticism about what government's doing. I had the programs reviewed, we put in some additional safeguards to make sure there's federal court oversight as well as congressional oversight, to make sure there is no spying on Americans. We don't have a domestic spying program."

So, he's blaming Bush for a spying program that doesn't exist.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 07:42 AM

Well, there's a curious coincidence!


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:48 PM

Obama Promise To 'Protect Whistleblowers' Just Disappeared From Change.gov

The folks from the Sunlight Foundation have noticed that the Change.gov website, which was set up by the Obama transition team after the election in 2008 has suddenly been scrubbed of all of its original content. They noted that the front page had pointed to the White House website for a while, but you could still access a variety of old material and agendas. They were wondering why the administration would suddenly pull all that interesting archival information... and hit upon a clue. A little bit from the "ethics agenda":

Protect Whistleblowers: Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.

Yeah. That statement seems a bit embarrassing at the very same time Obama's administration is threatening trade sanctions against anyone who grants asylum to Ed Snowden....

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130726/01200123954/obama-promise-to-protect-whistleblowers-just-disappeared-changegov.shtml


Senate bill authorizes sanctions on Russia or any other country offering Snowden asylum

WASHINGTON — U.S. sanctions against any country offering asylum to Edward Snowden advanced in Congress Thursday as the 30-year-old National Security Agency leaker remained in a Moscow airport while Russia weighed a request for him to stay permanently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/senate-bill-authorizes-sanctions-on-russia-or-any-other-country-offering-snowden


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 11:37 PM

Right!


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 07:07 PM

"That's the upshot of a new analysis by MapLight, a Berkeley-based non-profit that performed the inquiry at WIRED's request. The investigation shows that defense cash was a better predictor of a member's vote on the Amash amendment than party affiliation. House members who voted to continue the massive phone-call-metadata spy program, on average, raked in 122 percent more money from defense contractors than those who voted Wednesday to dismantle it."

From something on the www.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 02:13 PM

Holder speaking on behalf of the US has written Putin and said the US would not seek the death penalty or use torture on Snowden if he is returned to the US. Trust the US? Right. Just ask Patricia Smith whose son was killed at Benghazi how much anyone can trust the US and its representatives.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 06:47 PM

Yeah right. I wonder how much those people in Boston who are maimed for life feel about the NSA, being that all that spying didn't make a bit of difference in preventing that terrorist attack.

You really don't get it do you? Baaaaah! Four legs good, two legs bad!

Hey, remember this?

http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2008245641_eavesdrop10.html

Gee guys, thanks for your service. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are all sorts of uses for private information that extend well beyond crass voyeurism.

I'm not going to argue this point any further since those who get it don't need me to preach to the choir and those who don't won't get it unless it comes back to bite, which it very well may.

Sadly, this is will be our legacy to future generations who will one day be living an Orwellian nightmare. The ball has officially been dropped.

Sorry kids. Looks like there is more stupidity and evil in the world than there is intelligence and good. Bottom line, you're fucked.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 12:48 PM

Overall surveillance is the only answer in these days of home-grown as well as foreign terrorists.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 09:48 AM

Bad news Songwronger. It was just defeated 217-206.

Major disappointment. Huge. Was what Edward Snowden did all in vain?

Are these people who decided to leave things as they are just plain stupid or are the elite shielding themselves from challenges to their tyranny? Probably a little of both.

Foxes in the hen house.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 25 Jul 13 - 06:40 AM

And of course you got twit Michelle Bachman saying that terrorists will run amuck if we don't let the government spy as much as they please.

If this system works so well, what happened with Boston? As usual, they are violating only the people who aren't doing anything wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Jul 13 - 06:51 PM

NSA Under Fire: Key Vote This Week to Stop NSA Overreach

Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich) has authored a controversial amendment that will pull the plug on the NSA's ability to collect billions of Americans' phone calls by defunding these programs.

In essence, Rep. Amash believes that many Americans would like to have a say on whether the NSA can listen in, record, and permanently store their private phone calls.

H.R. 2399, the Limiting Internet and Blanket Electronic Review of Telecommunications and Email Act, would:

"Amend the Patriot Act to limit data collection to specific US citizens under active investigation. The bill also requires that secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court opinions be made available to Congress and declassified summaries of the opinions be made available to the public."

NSA head, Gen. Keith Alexander, responded to an upcoming vote scheduled for this week on the amendment by calling a "top secret" meeting with key Congressional leaders in an effort to lobby their support to squash the Amash amendment.

The NSA does not want a public debate. As usual, those who operate in the darkness despise the light.

That's why Rep. Amash and his simple amendment demanding accountability and oversight has the NSA spooked and running for cover...

To date, no evidence exists showing that the NSA's data collection measures have been directly responsible for stopping a single plot.

Many Congressmen, including the "liberty loving" Michelle Bachmann, have tried to defend, and even whitewash, the egregious constitutional violations committed by the NSA and are waging a hard fight against those who wish to bring accountability and oversight to America's out-of-control police state.

But why would Bachmann and others defend the NSA's spying program?

Because of the "terrorists," of course.

Bachmann and her neocon friends are dead wrong because the real tyranny facing Americans today is coming from their own government and those within the upper echelon of the military-industrial complex.

Those who foam at the mouth about the dangers of terrorism fail to operate in reality. The shocking statistics speak for themselves here.

As I reported in our Daily Briefing several days ago, the total number of U.S. citizens killed by terrorists during the ENTIRE year of 2012 was just 10 people. (See the official report for yourself here.)

And how many of these 10 people were killed by acts of terrorism inside the U.S.?

ZERO.

Instead, all 10 deaths occurred in Afghanistan (a war zone.)

Here are the total numbers for 2012 according to the Obama State Department.

U.S. citizens worldwide killed as a result of incidents of terrorism: 10
U.S. citizens worldwide injured as a result of incidents of terrorism: 2
U.S. citizens worldwide kidnapped as a result of incidents of terrorism: 3

Meanwhile, FDA-approved drugs kill 100,000 Americans every single year

So who are the real terrorists here?

http://ftmdaily.com/global-issues/big-brother-government-global-issues/nsa-under-fire/


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 23 Jul 13 - 10:32 PM

And here's something interesting:

http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/why-the-citizen-militia-theory


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 23 Jul 13 - 02:42 PM

Definitely outgunned. I have believed for a long time that the key would be some sort of strategy that involves out thinking them. I see zero chance for any sort of violent resistance to succeed in this day and age.

You have to admit, the "Snowden effect," not bad for a high school dropout. But now I understand that the NSA is combatting it with the buddy system.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jul 13 - 03:26 AM

When the revolution begins, remind me to dump my mobile phone in a bush! ;-)

Seriously though I've always wondered why some USians believe that guns can protect them against an evil government, the big weaponry / diverse forms of weaponry / other resources, at their disposal are far too powerful for an armed resistance to have any hope of success today.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 06:23 PM

How the NSA Is Using Cell Phone Data to Drone Civilians (In Pakistan)

In late 2001, a National Security Agency analyst was asked to do something unusual. Instead of locating a target's cell phone to eavesdrop on his conversation, the analyst was asked for the phone's location in real-time. It was apparently the beginning of the NSA's role in the CIA's drone operations that, a new report compiled by Pakistan suggests, had killed nearly 200 civilians by 2009....

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/07/how-nsa-using-cell-phone-data-drone-civilians-pakistan/67436/

So, the NSA is working with the CIA to target cell phone users for drone killing. Do any of you still think you're safe because you have "nothng to hide" from the NSA's hijinks?


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 02:11 PM

Jimmy Carter, former USA PRESIDENT announces in a speech that currently:

"America has no functioning democracy"

And one major news outlet picks it up.
That right there is a world-wide headline making quote if ever there was one.
And people claim 'conspiracy theorists' are nut jobs.

I wonder what Honey Boo Boo is doing and whether anyone's writing about that?


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 11:00 AM

Carter always did have a brain and a moral code - certainly as opposed to the senile actor that replaced him - which, in some ways, was the cause of his downfall.

USAsians hate nothing so much as someone who is smarter and better educated than they are.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jul 13 - 06:49 AM

Jimmy Carter Defends Edward Snowden, Says NSA Spying Has Compromised Nation's Democracy

HuffPo


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 09:42 AM

*applauds*


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Songwronger
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 08:09 PM

Snowden: Nobel Peace Prize Nominee

July 18, 2013

Swedish Sociology Professor Stefan Svallfors nominated him. He praised his "heroic effort at great personal cost."

He revealed NSA's lawless global spying. He told millions worldwide what they need to know. He did so at great risk.

He deserves high praise, not persecution. He showed "individuals can stand up for fundamental rights and freedoms," said Svallfors.

His nominating letter states:

"Best committee members!

I suggest that the 2013 Peace Prize (be) awarded to the American citizen Edward Snowden.

Edward Snowden has - in a heroic effort at great personal cost - revealed the existence and extent of the surveillance, the US government devotes electronic communications worldwide.

By putting light on this monitoring program - conducted in contravention of national laws and international agreements - Edward Snowden has helped to make the world a little bit better and safer."

Through his personal efforts, he has also shown that individuals can stand up for fundamental rights and freedoms.

This example is important because since the Nuremberg trials in 1945 (it's) been clear that the slogan 'I was just following orders' (rings hollow) as an excuse for acts contrary to human rights and freedoms."

Despite this, it is very rare that individual citizens have the insight of their personal responsibility and courage Edward Snowden showed in his revelation of the American surveillance program.

For this reason, he is a highly (deserving) candidate.

The decision to award the 2013 prize to Edward Snowden would - in addition to being well justified in itself - also help to save Nobel (Committee members) from the(ir) disrepute (resulting from) the hasty and ill-conceived decision to award US President Barack Obama 2009 award.

It would show (their) willingness to stand up in defense of civil liberties and human rights, even when such a defense (would) be viewed with disfavour by the world's dominant military power."

Sincerely,

Stefan Svallfors
Professor of Sociology at Umea University

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/07/snowden-nobel-peace-prize-nominee.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 12:03 PM

I'm gonna clicky this as it deserves a read:

Obama administration drowning in lawsuits filed over NSA surveillance

"Following Snowden's recent disclosures, though, Judge Jeffrey White of the Northern District of California ruled on July 8 that there's a way for those cases to still be heard.
"The court rightly found that the traditional legal system can determine the legality of the mass, dragnet surveillance of innocent Americans and rejected the government's invocation of the state secrets privilege to have the case dismissed," the EFF's Cohn, who is working on the case, said in a statement issued at the time of the ruling. "Over the last month, we came face-to-face with new details of mass, untargeted collection of phone and Internet records, substantially confirmed by the Director of National Intelligence. Today's decision sets the stage for finally getting a ruling that can stop the dragnet surveillance and restore Americans' constitutional rights.""

Yay for the US Judicial system!


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 10:24 AM

It seems to me that the bigger, more self-important, more arrogant a country becomes, the more the ruling political class becomes susceptible to paranoia regarding not only the activities of own citizens but also those in foreign countries.

So.....NSA, GCHQ etc......FUCK OFF!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 18 Jul 13 - 04:42 AM

Wow!

Someone said to me just today, "Everybody in the world spies on everybody else in the world. It's always been that way. Get used to it." I hear that alot from my more cynical associates.

But, wouldn't it be cool if it could just stop? I think I'd rather risk having something bad happen once in a while than to have the government spying all the time. They say they are protecting us, I say that they are protecting themselves from threats to their totalitarian control. That would be us.

Everyone should keep in mind that Putin continues to spy on his people. He faults the U.S. for hypocrisy, not spying.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 12:37 PM

http://rt.com/usa/snowden-leaks-surveillance-suits-174/

Some good news for a change.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 17 Jul 13 - 10:15 AM

Good quote Greg. Don't forget Thoreau.

From the Boston Globe. I thought this was funny:

"MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin told an audience of students on Monday that the United States had effectively trapped Edward J. Snowden, the fugitive former intelligence contractor, on Russian territory by frightening countries that otherwise might have accepted him.

When Putin insisted that Russia did not want Snowden to cause damage to the United States, the students laughed out loud..."


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: number 6
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 11:40 PM

Thanks Guest !

McGrath ... I agree with your statement ... but, it's Politiks Amerikano, and that's the way it has (unfortunately) evolved in that country.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 05:37 PM

Well, I haven't counted, but my impression is that most people posting here tend to view Snowden's actions, both in whistleblowing and trying to evade capture, sympathetically. As would have been the case under Bush.    I'd imagine the people shouting "traitor" would have been doing so under Bush also.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 04:16 PM

Excellent link, biLL.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: number 6
Date: 16 Jul 13 - 09:54 AM

An interesting read ... very relevant to the subject of this thread ... that is for those that are concerned about what is going on with the NSA.

NSA Snooping: The War on Terror Is America's Mania

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:43 PM

"The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naïve and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair."

― H.L. Mencken


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:40 PM

The suggestion that there is some way in which a traitor cannot be courageous is absurd. Many many traitors have been extremely courageous.

However blowing the whistle on the unconstitutional and illegal activities of a government agency is not an act of treason. If anything it is better described as an act of patriotism.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:17 PM

A "courageous" traitor?


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 02:06 PM

What earthly reason might there be for imagining that is what's his name had won the presidential election instead of Obama the US universal surveillance system would somehow have been less active? That's just a silly and irrelevant point.

I'm puzzled at the antagonism shown towards this courageous young man. Not by the US government, that more or less assumed, but by people who don't work for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 12:13 PM

His point being: "Shame on America for electing Barack Obama. I'll bet you'll never do that again!" And you know what? He's right!

Have a nice life in Russia, eddy-boy, you deserve it!


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 15 Jul 13 - 10:41 AM

He has stopped leaking in hopes of gaining asylum in Russia so no dice skarpi. That's all we're getting. I don't care. I think we have heard enough from Snowden. He made his point.


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