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BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden

GUEST 13 Jun 13 - 09:23 PM
Songwronger 13 Jun 13 - 09:17 PM
GUEST 13 Jun 13 - 09:14 PM
GUEST,guest 13 Jun 13 - 09:12 PM
Bobert 13 Jun 13 - 09:04 PM
number 6 13 Jun 13 - 09:02 PM
Bobert 13 Jun 13 - 08:35 PM
Don Firth 13 Jun 13 - 08:28 PM
Songwronger 13 Jun 13 - 07:02 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Jun 13 - 05:15 PM
Don Firth 13 Jun 13 - 04:53 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Jun 13 - 04:03 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Jun 13 - 03:40 PM
GUEST 13 Jun 13 - 03:40 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Jun 13 - 01:20 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 13 Jun 13 - 12:33 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Jun 13 - 12:21 PM
GUEST 13 Jun 13 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Jun 13 - 03:49 AM
Don Firth 13 Jun 13 - 02:07 AM
Don Firth 13 Jun 13 - 02:00 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Jun 13 - 11:09 PM
Janie 12 Jun 13 - 10:40 PM
Songwronger 12 Jun 13 - 09:48 PM
GUEST,gillymor 12 Jun 13 - 09:46 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 13 - 09:00 PM
pdq 12 Jun 13 - 08:51 PM
number 6 12 Jun 13 - 08:51 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM
Don Firth 12 Jun 13 - 08:36 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 13 - 08:33 PM
pdq 12 Jun 13 - 08:23 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 13 - 07:42 PM
Songwronger 12 Jun 13 - 07:18 PM
Don Firth 12 Jun 13 - 06:22 PM
VirginiaTam 12 Jun 13 - 05:51 PM
GUEST,gillymor 12 Jun 13 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,gillymor 12 Jun 13 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Jun 13 - 02:22 PM
number 6 12 Jun 13 - 01:39 PM
Don Firth 12 Jun 13 - 01:09 PM
pdq 12 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM
GUEST 12 Jun 13 - 10:42 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 12 Jun 13 - 09:31 AM
Richard Bridge 12 Jun 13 - 12:45 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Jun 13 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,guest 12 Jun 13 - 12:00 AM
number 6 11 Jun 13 - 10:53 PM
number 6 11 Jun 13 - 10:35 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 09:23 PM

So what. All my digital data is already stored online and, even worse, is available to anybody who cares to look at it for free for whatever purposes they may have in mind and I can't do a thing about it. So BIIIIIG deal.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 09:17 PM

Google turns all its info over to the NSA. That's what the scandal is about. Or one prong of the scandal. 8 of the largest internet and computer companies have been turning all their data over to the NSA.

And next year, all your digital data will be stored at the new NSA data center in Utah. An excellent and detailed article from last year about the center:

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all

...Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital "pocket litter." It is, in some measure, the realization of the "total information awareness" program created during the first term of the Bush administration—an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans' privacy....

For the first time, a former NSA official has gone on the record to describe the program, codenamed Stellar Wind, in detail. William Binney was a senior NSA crypto-mathematician largely responsible for automating the agency's worldwide eavesdropping network....

Binney left the NSA in late 2001, shortly after the agency launched its warrantless-wiretapping program. "They violated the Constitution setting it up," he says bluntly. "But they didn't care. They were going to do it anyway, and they were going to crucify anyone who stood in the way. When they started violating the Constitution, I couldn't stay."...

The scope of surveillance expands from there, Binney says. Once a name is entered into the Narus database, all phone calls and other communications to and from that person are automatically routed to the NSA's recorders. "Anybody you want, route to a recorder," Binney says. "If your number's in there? Routed and gets recorded." He adds, "The Narus device allows you to take it all."

And so on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 09:14 PM

Whoops!
Meant to say, "in this endeavor WITHOUT warrants or court orders."


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 09:12 PM

"While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses. Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American." --Senator Jim Sensenbrenner earlier this month, who gave us the Patriot Act in 2001, who said nothing when Bush seized millions of phone records and emails without the knowledge or approval of the FISA court and who enlisted the assistance of several telecommunications corporations (AT&T, Sprint Nextel, MCI, Verizon, Google) in this endeavor warrants or court orders. NOW it's un-American.

I love seeing the liberals and the conservatives eagerly piling onto the same bandwagon. I need the laugh.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 09:04 PM

Exactly...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 09:02 PM

Google ... then there are text messages, e-mails, phone calls, blogs, forums ... it's all collected and hashed together by the NSA. The only way you can get around it is to be completely off the grid ... and that in itself would raise enough suspicion to the BIG machine who would then send out the spooks to keep tabs on ya.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 08:35 PM

What if I told ya'll that there was an organization that knows 1000 times more about you that the NSA???

Well, there is... It's called Google...

End of discussion...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 08:28 PM

Tsk tsk, Goofball!

You're losing it!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 07:02 PM

Some things from today's World Socialist Website. I've always liked the site. They used to savage Bush, then they gave Obama a respectful interval, and now they savage him for his fascist behavior.

Defend Edward Snowden!

The Obama administration has already said it plans to indict the 29-year-old former National Security Agency (NSA) contractor. Congressmen, senators and media commentators have denounced him for treason and demanded that he be jailed for life or executed.

The charge of treason is a vicious libel. Snowden is not the one betraying the democratic principles embodied in the Bill of Rights. By exposing the conspiracy against these rights and coming forward at the cost of his career and possibly his life, he is defending them....

Nor are there any calls for impeachment proceedings against Obama. Forty years ago, Richard Nixon faced impeachment for actions that did not come close in their gravity to the violations of the Constitution carried out by the current president.

The hysterical and vicious reaction of the establishment to Snowden's exposures has laid bare the degree to which anti-democratic, authoritarian and even fascistic conceptions are embedded in the outlook of the American state and media. Within these layers there is an increasingly rabid hostility to the Bill of Rights and, behind that, the American people....

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/13/pers-j13.html


Obama administration officials, guilty of perjury, defend spy program

The Obama administration has responded to the revelations of massive and unconstitutional spying operations, exposed in leaks by former intelligence employee Edward Snowden, with a campaign of lies, threats and intimidation.

Among other crimes, the leaks have provided clear evidence of perjury on the part of administration officials, a criminal offense.

Asked at a Senate hearing in March, "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" Director of National Intelligence James Clapper responded with the statement: "No, sir." He said that any information collected on Americans was not done "wittingly."

This was a brazen lie. Among the programs revealed by Snowden is one that allows the National Security Agency, which operates under Clapper's direction, to accumulate the phone records of most Americans. When questioned about his previous statements on Sunday, Clapper told NBC, "I thought, though in retrospect, I was asked a — 'When are you going to start — stop beating your wife' kind of question, which is meaning not answerable necessarily by a simple yes or no. So I responded in what I thought was the most truthful, or least untruthful, manner by saying 'no.' "

The Orwellian phrase, "least untruthful," is an expression of the contempt with which Clapper—and the political establishment as a whole—views basic democratic rights. In other words, he lied, but with as much finesse as possible.

The Obama administration rushed to defend Clapper....

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/06/13/clap-j13.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 05:15 PM

Look, screwball..I called it accurate 41/2-5 years ago..I suggest you get your head out of your ass, stop with your aloofness to reality, and sue your professors...they haven't taught you shit....well, maybe they did, because all you got is shit for brains!...and I don't feel like picking through the undigested corn to make you see the obvious! You haven't even begun to play 'catch-up' yet.....needless to say, you've been off your rocker ever since you first got annoyed by me telling you the truth..............BEFORE IT HAPPENED!!!!
Shove it, buddy!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 04:53 PM

Goofus, any attempt to educate you is a lost cause. There are whole college classes in philosophy, ethics, and politics, not to mention many, many excellent books on the subject.

But as they say, you can lead a knuckle-dragging nitwit to knowledge, you can't make him think.

Just stick to picking your nose and flicking your boogers at the computer screen. That seems to be where your talent lies.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 04:03 PM

Oh, and incidentally.....I'm not alone.....you couldn't make this stuff up!

...even though, they've been doing it for years!

Utopia here we come!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 03:40 PM

So what's the 'vision' of 'utopia'??..and how is what's going on, in Washington, a 'positive' approach down that road???



..besides causing hostile divisions among the people??
Any clues???

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 03:40 PM

Picture worth lots of words.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 01:20 PM

Don T: "I would normally adopt different approaches to an intelligent adult, a spotty teenager, or the aforesaid six year old."

Since when?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 12:33 PM

""Maybe trying to act mature, might sound like a 'novel idea'...but try it....if you can, OK?""

Maybe, if you posted coherent English prose, after giving at least minimal thought to sentence structure and punctuation, your posts wouldn't look like the story writing of a six year old primary school pupil.

Then a more mature response just might be appropriate.

I would normally adopt different approaches to an intelligent adult, a spotty teenager, or the aforesaid six year old.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 12:21 PM

Janie: "I think it naive to believe the checks and balances in our government can operate effectively in a climate of total secrecy."

Absolutely correct!....Those chumps in Washington, have forgotten, or disregarded, that they work for US!..and in a 'Democracy' the PEOPLE are supposed to 'at least' have a 'say'!...but NOOO!..Both political parties have been working as little dictators, giving us choices, of their choosing, then give it to us with 'great urgency'...and WE the PEOPLE get the privilege of being able to choose between either vomit or their puke! Whippee!! ..Most of them should be locked up, for treason, and violations of their oaths..which they have reduced to only being 'ceremonial' anyway!
What used to be the 'District of Columbia', is now the 'District of Corruption'....but as long as they sugar coat it, some non-thinking partisan parrot, will spout if off with great 'authority'..as if they 'know something'...and how we should all take their 'word for it'..because, WE, the people who should be thinking, have left other corrupt criminals do our thinking for us!....now they gotta snoop on use...because of 'national security'...and how they'd love to convince you that that is their 'prime concern'.....just like the 'borders'(?)....they are so 'concerned' about the borders, they even ship guns to the foreign drug cartels!...then lie about it, in Congressional hearings. You bet!!..these guys have YOUR 'special interests', on the top of their priorities!.....(rolls eyes).
If you think gold is valuable, try common sense,.....there's always some political hack trying to talk you out of it!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 10:43 AM

Excellent post, Janie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 03:49 AM

Don Firth: "Goofus, you accuse me of being "pedantic" and "rhetorical" when you are too dull-witted to understand what I'm talking about.
Simple. I suggested that you get a book on politics and read it.
Oh, never mind. You wouldn't understand that, either. . . ."

Gosh, I almost hate to point this out to your fragile egghead..but your post defined exactly what I just said about you!!
Re-read it again...you may either get a chuckle...or an epiphany!

As so far as your 'redefinition' of 'liberalism' vs 'conservatism'..once again, you are looking at it rather myopically...
Like, "There are stipulations in the Constitution that Conservatives are insisting on interpreting loosely, or simply ignoring."
You mean, like how to interpret it 'loosely'??
Of course liberals think that...and conservatives think the same about liberals....and BTW, you haven't said ANYTHING, except run around in circles......pedantically!

Jeez, what a screwball!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 02:07 AM

Having a "strict" or "loose" interpretation of the Constitution is NOT how "Liberal" and "Conservative" are defined. There are stipulations in the Constitution that Conservatives are insisting on interpreting loosely, or simply ignoring.

Didn't your mother ever tell you not to use words if you don't know what they mean?

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 02:00 AM

Goofus, you accuse me of being "pedantic" and "rhetorical" when you are too dull-witted to understand what I'm talking about.

Simple. I suggested that you get a book on politics and read it.

Oh, never mind. You wouldn't understand that, either. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 11:09 PM

Gosh, Firth...you ALMOST said something..but failed to nail it.
I guess it's all in the perspective how you define 'liberal' or Conservative'...frankly, they might get lumped together with the atheists, on a neighboring thread!...but having a STRICT interpretation of the Constitution vs. a loose one, does cover it...but in reality it is hardly a point...neither side even relates to the Constitution ANYWAY!...other than a 'talking point' in relating to how they are making it of none effect!...while pretending to defend it!!!

The rest makes as little sense as you...pedantic, rhetorical, hoping to impress, nonsense!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Janie
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 10:40 PM

I know that I had an aversive emotional reaction to the initial reports I was hearing on the news, then decided I needed to take a step back to listen, learn, discern to the best of my ability, then evaluate what I am hearing. That process continues. I should probably state that I am not a news and opinion junkie. I read my local newspaper, check out CNN everyday, but mostly get all of my news that I trust to be reasonably objective, as well as in depth reportage and analysis from assorted newscasts and in-depth talk shows broadcast on NPR.

I'm still disturbed. Maybe more disturbed now that people with strong ties to the security operations of our government are being trotted out to discount and discredit Mr. Snowden's remarks. It is very possible there are a lot of semantics being parsed by experts with ties to government and that Mr. Snowden does not have the precise training and command of language to express himself in terms that are not easily parsed. I don't know that to be a fact. When I listened to various commentary re: his statements regarding "authority to", I wonder if what he meant by that was he had the combination of the security clearances and the IT know how to do so, had he been directed to do so.


I think it naive to believe the checks and balances in our government can operate effectively in a climate of total secrecy. The collection and storage of massive amounts of meta data occurring secretly, protected only by constitutional "check and balance" processes that are also entirely secret is dangerous. Dangerous because of the complete secrecy. Perspectives of well-intentioned and very smart and informed people can get co-opted. The internal logic of a closed system can turn into a closed paradigm.

I am not prone to paranoia. I have long thought about the implications of the data that many companies now have because of my frequent use of the internet and technologies and the Orwellian potential. Of the implications of my use of discount/member cards that give me "special pricing and sales" at my local grocery and pharmacies. Of my use of an ATM card. Hasn't stopped me from taking advantages of the benefits, but have also thought about the potential costs and the potential for abuse.

The potential for abuse of massive collection and storage of meta data is huge. Of course, one then has to define abuse, and your mileage will vary considerably on that one.

I reserve the right to change my mind in any number of directions, but at this point in time, I think Snowden has performed a great public service, and that he is also legally liable for his choice in doing so. Reality is not conclusive, nor is it pretty.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 09:48 PM

Current DrudgeReport headlines:


White House Celebrates New High Performance Computing Center Opening...

PATRIOT Act Author: Obama's NSA Reassurances 'A Bunch of Bunk'...

DIRECTOR: PROGRAMS DISRUPTED DOZENS OF ATTACKS...
EXPERTS: Played little role in foiling terror plots...

Obama, 9 PRISM Partners Targeted by Class-Action Lawsuit...

Lawmaker: Use NSA data to check IRS agency employees' links to WH...

Earlier Denials Put Intelligence Chief in Awkward Position...

Obama stands by Clapper after 'least most untruthful' answer...


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 09:46 PM

When religious extremists fly airplanes into buildings the people have a much bigger problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 09:00 PM

When a government makes laws in secret, the people have a problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: pdq
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:51 PM

When both John Boner and Linda Muckcowski say that the whistleblower is a traitor, we be in deep doodoo.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:51 PM

Maybe we should close this thread down so as not to disturb everyone from their sleep.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:43 PM

Long as you're ok, everything's right.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:36 PM

Internet advertisers and telephone solicitors, along with a whole raft of financial institutions ALREADY have that information and keep collection it all the time--but they do nothing to prevent terrorist attacks on the U. S. They just want to sell you stuff.

The government, in an effort to see that nobody poisons the water supply of the city I live in or hijacks an airliner I'm flying in and flying it into a building?

No sweat. The information's already out there.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:33 PM

Funny, PDQ, but you supported them a year back.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: pdq
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:23 PM

How about this for a poll question...

       "Do you want the Federales snooping on every fucking thing you do? Well, do ya, punk!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 07:42 PM

People, fellow(ette) RePubLicans and DemoCrats:

If horseshit stunk like this, none of you would have close commerce with it. Well, probably.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 07:18 PM

Take part in a poll:

Do You Approve of the U.S. Government Spying on Everything You Do?

Click on the "Results" tab while you're there. As of now, 1200+ votes, 3% say yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 06:22 PM

Goofball:    "The terms liberal and conservative, were originally used to describe how one took the constitution...one either interpreted it liberally, that is loosely...or conservatively..."

NOT SO!

For Chrissake, Goofy, if you're going to pontificate about political positions, get yourself a copy of a good book on Political Science—one that contains definitions of the terms (like "Liberal" and "Conservative") along with explanations of the philosophies upon which these positions are based.

Philosophically, particularly in the field of ethics and politics, these terms have meanings that predate the U. S. Constitution by centuries. And these meanings are still germane today—to people who know what the hell they're talking about!

Most people who throw these terms around indiscriminately these days have no idea of what they mean. They're just words that sound like they mean something, but have no relationship to what's going on in the real world.

Particularly when they are bandied about by ignoramuses like YOU!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 05:51 PM

Well at least it's getting people reading.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-06-12/sales-of-george-orwells-1984-soar-foll


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 05:25 PM

Whoops. Here ya go NSA Director today


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 05:22 PM

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=82617243-12BF-432C-A71B-9D08761DF1CD


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:51 PM

Don(Wyziwyg)T:"The good news is that judging from the indecipherable rant above, Goofus, you're not any crazier than you were 4 1/2 years ago.""
The bad news?.... He's not any saner either!"

OK..I'll take you on.....here's from Date: 04 Jun 08.....show me exactly where you draw your asinine 'conclusion'!!


From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:33 AM

As per requested, Little Hawk, I re-read your post, and I stand corrected. That being said, Bush-Cheney, were in the same league, as Clinton during his term. Actually, not only are they in the same league, they are just more of the same person, with the same agendas...just extensions of the same agenda. It reminds me of being in the ring, with a boxer, who comes at you with a right..a left..another left, then a right....we in America have been battered by the same boxer, using both sides, and faking us out, while we are watching for the blow to come from 'the other side. We've been 'blind-sided', repeatedly, and every blow, right and left, has the agenda to strip us of our own sovereignty, while keeping us distracted from the real issue before us. Has anyone considered that the media, with their pundits, and speculations, right and left, has us focused on all the emotionalized issues while the wheels just keep grinding us down? Splitting us apart, and giving us the illusion that there is a big difference between us, that matters more than that we are all sharing this land, trying to survive, have a normal life, raising our families....just like every one else????? Whether you are white, black, rich or poor, male, female young, old, of any descent, we all share two distinctive traits given to all living beings, whether it is an animal, plant, or an amoeba, we all have the will to survive, and reproduce! Anything that gets in the way of this,(the common denominator of all living creatures) is a form of death! So, in conclusion, let's all re-consider...'Do unto others, as you would have done unto you'....not divide and conquer!"

Here's another:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:23 PM

Riginslinger
   Being as Little Hawk was merely quoting(cut and pasting) me, I'll jump out there and reply, for him, as well as myself. As I posted earlier, BOTH parties have been corrupted!, and the ideals that they used to stand for have been co-opted by the agendas of those, who have no interest, whatsoever, in representing you, or the original intention of either party. Haven't you noticed, that within yourself, that we tend to 'agree' and go along with what someone proposes, or compromises for, rather, than having them (the party) actually representing the majority will of their constituents?? Too many times we end up having to just 'go along' with what they come up with....and usually, it has NOTHING to do with the principles or ideals of our constitution...but always a stretch! Slowly by slowly, our form of government is changing, without the will, nor consent of the people. ..and we just sit around, to argue the 'party line' Well, my dear friend, the party (both) are, and have been, out of line, for a long, long time. Now we debate issues, that are not realities, to principles, but rather 'trends' fashioned to fit the 'agendas' shaped though corruption. This has become so obvious, that most think it normal! You are told what to think, not 'how' to think!!..Remember, right wing and left wing are on the same bird..(and its not our eagle, either). Clear enough????"

How about this one?:

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Jul 08 - 02:15 AM

The terms liberal and conservative, were originally used to describe how one took the constitution...one either interpreted it liberally, that is loosely...or conservatively...with not much changes, a more strict form. What is used to describe liberals and conservatives today is somewhat of an oxymoron....both sides use it to completely shred the constitution beyond recognition..both sides. Every remedy seems to take away just one more little right here, and a little there. The Clintons did it, and the Bushes did it. in my humble opinion, both sides broke their oath of office, and are still making justifications for it, today. Both are globalists, both pals who helped pave the way for the other. I believe that both of them atre neither liberal or conservative....just butchers of our form of government. Either a true liberal or conservative relates to the constitution as the center. what we see now is mislabled and both sides are doing what they can to change our basic form of government.. Its a sham!"

..AND FINALLY(for now)......

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 01:53 AM

Nation of whiners??....Of course we are...and their not even whining about the right stuff!!!


OK, Don, now shut up!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 02:22 PM

Don(Wyziwyg)T:"The good news is that judging from the indecipherable rant above, Goofus, you're not any crazier than you were 4 1/2 years ago.""The bad news?.... He's not any saner either!"

OK, Don, besides your unsubstantiated little childish 'rant', you posted your 'unsubstantiated little childish 'rant', as a reply to my post: "During the debate over the Patriot Act of 2001 then Senator Joe Biden compared this bill to its 2001 counterpart stating "I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing. And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill."
Take a look, Bobert.....

P.S....and don't ignore the links, then turn around and say he didn't write the original bill!"

Now, do you have another side to what I posted???...or are you confined to your, "your unsubstantiated little childish 'rant'???

Maybe trying to act mature, might sound like a 'novel idea'...but try it....if you can, OK?
...otherwise you've become as relevant as just another whining, thumb-sucking, wimp...that has no ability to articulate ANYTHING above an elementary school playground name calling.....is that all you have..or are?..Give it a shot....grow up..you can do it!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 01:39 PM

"69% of Democrats say it is more important for the government to investigate terrorist threats, even at the expense of personal privacy"

What ?!?!?

Good Grief ... what is wrong with you Yankee lefties ... :[

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 01:09 PM

A PEW Research Center survey reports that the majority of Americans are okay with the NSA's surveillance of communications, many people stating that they see no problem with the agency's collecting of information that could prevent future terrorist attacks on the United States when financial institutions, businesses, internet advertisers, and telephone solicitors already have this information.

From an article about the survey:   
Currently 62% say it is more important for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy. Just 34% say it is more important for the government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.

These opinions have changed little since an ABC News/Washington Post survey in January 2006. Currently, there are only modest partisan differences in these opinions: 69% of Democrats say it is more important for the government to investigate terrorist threats, even at the expense of personal privacy, as do 62% of Republicans and 59% of independents.
Full article HERE.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: pdq
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 12:13 PM

"...the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 'specifically authorizes intelligence agencies to monitor the phone, email, and other communications of U.S. citizens for up to a week without obtaining a warrant' when one of the parties is outside the U.S."


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 10:42 AM

I think people are missing the point of what is wrong with all this. The law was passed in private and it still hasn't been made available to the public.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 09:31 AM

""The good news is that judging from the indecipherable rant above, Goofus, you're not any crazier than you were 4 1/2 years ago.""

The bad news?.... He's not any saner either!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 12:45 AM

AFAIK UK CRB checks can only be done (a) by a particular state authority or (b) with the written consent of the subject. So, I repeat, if you say there are (presumably US) sites that will permit checks as stated on a UK person, please specify the site you used. I know some UK subjects whose details I can use to test your theory.

There are I think two big points in this.

What the US apparently does in invading privacy is specifically permitted by US law as against non-US-citizens, and what is more, in ways that are prohibited in the subject's jurisdiction. This is why various European jurisdictions are "demanding" that the US do this or that. The use of the word "demand" tickled my funnybone - if the US refuses what are the European governments going to do, send a gunboat?

Secondly, the amount of data to be sifted required automation according to pretty specific criteria - and most of us are not going as things stand at present are not going to get flagged up by present automated criteria. But a government hostile to democratic process could very easily change what was sorted for so as to detect attempts at democratic opposition


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 12:12 AM

Bobert: "Yes, the Patriot Act was written by a bunch of people who were reacting, okay, oto 911"..blah blah blah......

During the debate over the Patriot Act of 2001 then Senator Joe Biden compared this bill to its 2001 counterpart stating "I drafted a terrorism bill after the Oklahoma City bombing. And the bill John Ashcroft sent up was my bill."

Take a look, Bobert.....

GfS

P.S....and don't ignore the links, then turn around and say he didn't write the original bill!


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 12:00 AM

I forgot to mention that every single purchase you make online with a card issued to you by your bank, your knows has complete record of. I went to my bank to see to some business and the guy calls up my bank record to get certain data then he walked away to make some copies and on his monitor I could see every single online purchase I had made all lined up in a nice, pretty column. He had my entire online purchasing history right there.

So the NSA doesn't need to collect your info, it's already been collected.


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:53 PM

for those that may be interested ... check out pic #5 ... "A former NSA analyst calculates that the servers there are large enough to store all the electronic communications of all of humanity for the next 100 years "

Whew!! 100 years " ... that is one mean big daddy.

a side note here .. the Utah Data Center in Bluffdale was built after 9/11 .. a result of the Patriot Act'

another side note: "After the abuses of the USA PATRIOT Act were once again brought to light in June 2013 with articles about collection of most Americans Call Detail Records by the NSA and the PRISM program, Representative Jim Sensenbrenner, Republican of Wisconsin, who introduced the Patriot Act in 2001, said that the National Security Agency overstepped its bounds.[252] He released a statement saying "While I believe the Patriot Act appropriately balanced national security concerns and civil rights, I have always worried about potential abuses." He added: "Seizing phone records of millions of innocent people is excessive and un-American."

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:35 PM

Oh btw Bobert .... it doesn't just scan ... it collects and analyses and crunches data, big data, big crunchers.

check out the photos and captions in the link below.

High-Tech Spies

biLL


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