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Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5

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Richie 29 May 13 - 11:26 AM
Suzy Sock Puppet 29 May 13 - 01:55 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 29 May 13 - 02:22 PM
Steve Gardham 29 May 13 - 02:44 PM
Suzy Sock Puppet 29 May 13 - 03:40 PM
Lighter 29 May 13 - 08:48 PM
Steve Gardham 30 May 13 - 09:38 AM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Richie
Date: 29 May 13 - 11:26 AM

We know Sharp collected it in New York City in 1917 and that Bayard confirms a Pennsylvania source from the late 1800s from a Scottish miner. Certainly Ives who was in NY could hae picked up the Wee Cooper from any number of US sources, including his family (Kentucky then Indiana, then Illinois).

Lomax notes may not name a source- since he wasn't always specific about those detials.

TY

R-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 29 May 13 - 01:55 PM

There are versions of this song that mention fear of offending her kin and then the entire situation is resolved without incident by means of the threat (which might even be empty threat, as if he was skinning the wether in any case.) I like those ones alot better. Child texts A-E.

The difference is the one is a humorous cautionary tale to wives who care more about their vanity than their virtue. The other is something that seems to have come out of the "Don't hurt her too bad" wife beater camp.

With all this collecting you do, didn't you ever think some of them ought to catch a strong breeze by a window? I do. Hope I'm not being too sententious.

Nickety, nackety, NOO NOO NOO!

Because if that's the way it is then I'm going to write my own:

Whackety Willie's Misfortune

Snuck off to the Gypsy camp last night
For herbal refrain in a bottle
She said to slip a little in his ale
If he looks like he might throttle


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 29 May 13 - 02:22 PM

I know, that was bad.

Another one that can blow out the window is "Little Sir Hugh." There is no such thing as a yenta serial killer who stabs beautiful children with a pen knives and throws them down a well for no particular reason. It's obviously a song created to teach fear and hatred of Jews to little children. It's truly a vile thing.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 May 13 - 02:44 PM

Susan,
That's almost exactly what it is (not necessarily to children), but it does serve to remind those of us smugly condemning what the Nazis did, that our ancestors too in Britain were guilty historically of similar crimes against humanity.

As you say it is also highly likely that the origin of Child 277 lies in a warning to vain wives.

Richie,
Taking back the standard version of Wee Cooper a little further, Whitelaw included it without tune in The Book of Scottish Song, 1855, (See Friedman/Penguin). First edn. is actually 1844 but I haven't got that edition. I've just acquired a load of Scottish song books so I'll see if we can take it back further.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 29 May 13 - 03:40 PM

Not to mention, altering texts and tearing out pages of the folio just makes more work for others down the line.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Lighter
Date: 29 May 13 - 08:48 PM

Elsewhere, anyway, "dhu" is Gaelic for "black," as in Scott's "Pibroch of Donal Dhu."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads: US Versions Part 5
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 30 May 13 - 09:38 AM

Our talented researcher, Richie, not only has a great resource on his site which this thread is linked to, but also is a great artist mainly depicting scenes from songs and ballads. See the 'bluegrass' thread.


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