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Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.

Stanron 08 Feb 13 - 03:56 PM
Jack Campin 08 Feb 13 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,999 08 Feb 13 - 04:30 PM
Georgiansilver 08 Feb 13 - 04:44 PM
Richard Bridge 08 Feb 13 - 04:45 PM
Deckman 08 Feb 13 - 04:50 PM
GUEST 08 Feb 13 - 04:57 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Feb 13 - 05:00 PM
John MacKenzie 08 Feb 13 - 05:02 PM
Leadfingers 08 Feb 13 - 06:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Feb 13 - 07:48 PM
Rapparee 08 Feb 13 - 08:48 PM
Penny S. 09 Feb 13 - 03:40 AM
Penny S. 09 Feb 13 - 03:42 AM
GUEST,Eliza 09 Feb 13 - 04:42 AM
Fossil 09 Feb 13 - 05:18 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Feb 13 - 05:27 AM
Georgiansilver 09 Feb 13 - 05:35 AM
JHW 09 Feb 13 - 06:08 AM
Jack Campin 09 Feb 13 - 06:28 AM
Roger the Skiffler 09 Feb 13 - 06:35 AM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Feb 13 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,Eliza 09 Feb 13 - 10:34 AM
Mo the caller 09 Feb 13 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,Musket sans cookie 10 Feb 13 - 05:45 AM
GUEST,Eliza 10 Feb 13 - 06:58 AM
mayomick 10 Feb 13 - 10:32 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 10 Feb 13 - 01:28 PM
GUEST,Eliza 10 Feb 13 - 01:45 PM
Stanron 10 Feb 13 - 09:00 PM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Feb 13 - 06:04 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 11 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 11 Feb 13 - 12:38 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 13 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 11 Feb 13 - 12:50 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 13 - 01:08 PM
Rumncoke 11 Feb 13 - 01:12 PM
Donuel 11 Feb 13 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,Eliza 11 Feb 13 - 02:02 PM
GUEST,Seayaker 12 Feb 13 - 06:05 AM
Rumncoke 12 Feb 13 - 12:48 PM
GUEST,Eliza 12 Feb 13 - 12:57 PM
Dave Hanson 12 Feb 13 - 02:42 PM
GUEST,Eliza 12 Feb 13 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,JHW 13 Feb 13 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,Eliza 13 Feb 13 - 06:13 AM
Rumncoke 13 Feb 13 - 06:54 AM
Mr Red 13 Feb 13 - 12:20 PM
Stanron 13 Feb 13 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Feb 13 - 03:07 PM
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Subject: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 03:56 PM

After the BSE crisis in 1997 (?) I have avoided all foods of a bovine nature. It seems now that horse meat has been used as a covert cheap beef substitute. Any chance of buying some as a overt cheap meat substitute?


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:28 PM

I expect my cats will suddenly develop very different preferences between brands and flavours of catfood than they used to.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,999
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:30 PM

"Where can I buy Horsemeat."

I think you have to go to shops that sell beef. Buy the stuff that's called beef. Voila. Bon appetit.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:44 PM

I do think that it was wrong to pass horse meat off as beef.... but they keep using the word "Contaminated"..... The food is not poisoned for heavens sake..... horse meat is edible! I eat horse meat every time I go to Paris... or Amiens for the Rederie! As for disposing of the 'contaminated' meat... why not send it in bulk to the starving in Africa..... it is edible and high in protein!!!! Feed the world!!!!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:45 PM

Hear hear!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:50 PM

Here in North America (USA), back in 1944, I well remember eating horsemeat ... and we were darned glad to get it. I was a youngster then, still am in some ways, and all of our food was rationed. Beef meat was very difficult to get, and very limited and expensive. So was coffee, sugar, tires, gasoline and many other things. This was during WW2.

One day Dad came home from the butcher shop with some ground meat. It was quite coursely ground. I remember that my mother made a chili of it.

Days later my brother and I learned it was really horsemeat. And ... we also learned that the local town burcher had added sawdust, from his butcher shop floor, as an "extender" to the meat.

This butcher was driven out of town, (Burien, Washington) and his home was burned to the ground. Early vigilante justice. bob(deckman)nelson


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 04:57 PM

Jack Campin buy them a bit of fish, old tight arse.
I gave up food in the 80's lived ever since on sunshine n marmite,and the odd banana,very odd ones.Try quorn, some must like it because every veggie isle is stacked with the stuff.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 05:00 PM

I believe there's a horse meat butcher in Edinburgh


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 05:02 PM

There is at least a restaurant that serves horse meat.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 06:59 PM

I understand there is a drug used for horses than CAN be dodgy for Us if it gets into the food chain , so make sure IF you are buying Horse that it has been correctly sourced !


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 07:48 PM

It's contaminated if it's not what it's supposed to be. If you were buying horsemeat and it turned out to be cow, that'd be contaminated.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Feb 13 - 08:48 PM

Go to the Derby, check the losers.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 03:40 AM

When I was young I was sent off to get cats' meat from a shop in an archway under a road in Folkestone, and understood it to be horse. It was not a shop I would have wanted to buy meat for human consumption in, and the meat came with purple ink on it to show it wasn't for us. Odd, really, that we have this attitude that we don't want to eat horse for some taboo, but it's OK for cats.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Penny S.
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 03:42 AM

Incidentally, I saw the stage version of War Horse this week, and the programme notes said that the remaining horses at the end of the war were sold off for meat - and I wondered at the time if that were an influence on the British attitude to eating them.

Penny


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 04:42 AM

Horses are given phenylbutazone as a treatment for arthritis and other inflammatory diseases. This drug can accumulate in the system and cause ulceration, kidney damage, and internal bleeding in the horse, or in anyone who eats the meat. 'Clandestine' horse meat or products in wrongly labelled food is hardly likely to have been tested for 'bute'. In Britain over the last hundred years, horses slaughtered for meat were generally the old and/or sick ones. They were probably riddled with worms, diseases of various kinds and not a good option to put on a plate. IF (?) horsemeat is honestly sourced from inspected and disease-free stock, humanely treated in life and slaughtered under correct prodedures, I see no reason why people shouldn't eat it. I wouldn't, but there you are. But I do strongly object to dishonest practices in food production and illegal representation on a label of what is, in fact, in the stuff you are going to ingest.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Fossil
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 05:18 AM

Never mind UK, hop on the Eurostar to Brussels, where many butchers will sell you good quality, tasty horsemeat. Go on a day trip, take a chillybin et voila! Sorted!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 05:27 AM

It was quite common, to see horse meat (Chevaline() burgers on menus, at services on the autoroute. I think it's mainly in the north of France though.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 05:35 AM

When you go to France and order 'steak' in a restaurant... you get... guess what... horse meat!.... if you want 'Biftek' (Beefsteak) then you pay more to get it...... The horse meat comes from animals which are bred for the purpose... not racehorses which are plied with drugs. I often eat steak when I go to France... tastes like beef steak... no problem!!!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: JHW
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 06:08 AM

Poor Cow or Poor Old Horse
Hopefully I'm not eating either but I wonder why Poor Old Horse is cheaper?


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 06:28 AM

Given the very large quantities that seem to have fed through the UK supermarket supply chain, and the Fact that it seems to arrived via Poland but the Poles are insistent it wasn't raised there, I wonder if the ultimate source is central Asia? A lot of horses there and a lot of official corruption that could feed a black market.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 06:35 AM

When I was in Hungary last year there was a large horsemeat shop in the Budapest covered market with a horse's head sign. Lots of salami-type preserved meats & sausages as well as fresh cuts.

RtS


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 07:11 AM

If I was in a position to implement it, I think I would like to introduce a 'food sourcing' document, that has to be signed off and retained at all stages of the supply chain, and giving powers to health inspectors to spot check, verify, seize, and impose hefty penalties if certification cannot be produced or verified (ie the sourced foods do not match what the document says.

This would mean that ingredients could only be purchased from suppliers that meet health and safety standards - so for example, if horse meat is used, each step in the chain may be asked to prove that they have purchased this from a reputable source, and not drug/disease ridden.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 10:34 AM

A jolly good idea, SPB, but the trouble with documentation is it can be forged or dishonestly obtained, and would cost a great deal to inspect and monitor. Having watched with interest the Australian Customs programmes on TV, it would seem that they are ferociously strict there about ANY meat products brought into their country. (Any kind of food matter at all is scrutinised.) This is not only to protect the consumer, but to prevent animal diseases (eg foot-and-mouth) and plant viruses etc from entering the agricultural environment. I also wonder sometimes about halal meat. Several outlets have sprung up here in Norwich, and I'm afraid I haven't total confidence that their meat is completely pucka. (And don't anyone dare say I'm racist, because my husband is a Muslim!)


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Mo the caller
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 04:41 PM

They are saying now that a law has been passed in (Rumania??) prohibitting horses and carts on the roads - hence the surplus horse meat which is crisscrossing Europe in a complicated web of suppliers and processors.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 05:45 AM

I read above the claim that we shouldn't use the word contaminated because this horse meat is edible.   It isnt.

Horse meat is both edible and I have enjoyed it many times but this isn't edible horse meat. It is indeterminate meat. We know nothing of the quality control or source. This makes it a huge concern.

Some maggot farm providers went to prison a few years ago for buying bad chicken to sell to the farms but re classifying it as edible and selling it to processed food factories.

Nice to see lessons learned. ..


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 06:58 AM

I think the poor maggots should demand compensation too.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 10:32 AM

As are the cows :

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=332619540187764&set=a.261275940655458.58229.261266100656442&type=1&theater


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 01:28 PM

""The food is not poisoned for heavens sake..... horse meat is edible! I eat horse meat every time I go to Paris..""

Very true, but since this meat has been substituted for beef in a criminal fraud, are we really to believe that the criminals put as much effort into ensuring its suitability for human consumption as is the case with horsemeat openly marketed as such?

I tink it would be foolish to believe that this would be of any finer quality than pet food, and I wouldn't eat pet food, would you?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 01:45 PM

Even perfood in UK has to be fit for human consumption and certified as such by stringent checks.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Stanron
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 09:00 PM

I just might go to my local market tomorrow and ask the butcher if he can get horse meat and if so how much it would cost.

I don't get this idea that horses are not to be eaten. I've had dogs and cats as pets in the past but I've never formed an emotional bond with a horse. Cows always look fed up with being cows and I suppose if you were forced to give birth each year and had your children kidnapped and killed you'd be fed up too. Sheep always look comparatively cheerful and friendly. Horses to me look flighty. Maybe they know they're prey.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:04 AM

For me it isn't the emotional bond with horses that puts me off, in spite of the fact that I rode ponies for years as a youngster. Neither the fact that it isn't generally our culture in UK to eat them. Nor again a fear of 'unusual food'. I've eaten squid and octopus (both delicious) and stuffed goats' udders (tasty but a bit chewy) and camel stew (very tough and strong-flavoured). It's merely not having confidence in the drug-free or disease-free state of the meat. And I'd be livid if I'd bought ready-made food (which I never would) and found the labelling was a pack of lies!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 12:33 PM

I understand some time back the donkeys that gave rides to children outside the main gates of Greenwich Park were stolen. The police traced them to a halal abattoir somewhere down near Gravesend. You could try there.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 12:38 PM

""Even perfood in UK has to be fit for human consumption and certified as such by stringent checks.""

Quite!

But this lot didn't originate anywhere near the UK Eliza, and demonstrably didn't originate with honest farmers and/or processors.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 12:44 PM

dunno, but we got ours delivered in dry ice at our doorstep every morning in Denver.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 12:50 PM

Eliza,
      The tortuous route described in the latest reports involve Cyprus, France(two sites), Romania, Holland and Sweden before it gets to the shops and we haven`t even identified the source. It would seem to me that offers ample opportunity for it`s provenance to be lost.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:08 PM

The schemes that are out there are amazing.

Some years ago great quantities of highly radioactive white birch firewood showed up in the United States.

It turned out it was a russian mafia scam that harvested Chernobyl forests for "free" and shipped it worldwide.

The evidence was burned as you expect and the public was never the wiser.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Rumncoke
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:12 PM

I have no idea where my regard of horses as non food came from - but I am very glad that I have eaten very few ready meals in my life.

It seems that a single Rumanian abattoir is the source, and a new law banning horses and carts from the roads there has caused a rush of horses for the chop.

The meat has no provenance, not on the lines of 'this used to be a healthy animal with no harmful drugs in its system' - and as it was probably a viable cart puller not destined for the plate there could be anything the local vets might use. A sudden change in the law and someone saw a chance to make money from all the cheap meat from suddenly unwanted horses.

Good horsemeat is fine for those who eat it, and I am sure that the market for it helps maintain the quality of the horses walking about in the countries where it is popular - and the price of it.

Cheap horsemeat with no one knows what in it, has to be bad news.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 01:13 PM

No one bothered to ask why the Russian birch was less than half the price of domestic firewood. It was quick money.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 02:02 PM

As an enormous thread drift (for which I apologise) I read a while back that a commercially-produced lettuce has been doused with seventeen chemicals during its growth. I think the only answer for the tormented is to try and be as self-sufficient as poss, and where one cannot, to source ones produce locally. Our veg and salad stuff is grown by me and I don't douse it with anything. The slugs get a little nibble but I'm OK with that. Eggs we buy from a lady in a nearby village. You can see her hens scratching about in her field. Chicken is from Roys (a Wroxham shop whose stuff comes from 'up the road') and I use farmers' markets too. It's the only way to be sure of what is going in your tum. If you can't be bothered, and buy muck in packets, well, good luck to you.
By the way, sorry about my typo, I should of course have written PET food!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Seayaker
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 06:05 AM

Eliza's right as always. The global food industry is huge, labyrinthine, and impossible in practice to police. The only control that supermarkets will apply is on their proffit/loss account.

Buy local, support farm shops and markets and use local butchers while we still have them.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Rumncoke
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 12:48 PM

In a discussion of this on BBC Radio 4 today (12th February) it was being pointed out that in Britain the small producers of meat - usually of the highest possible quality - are having to comply with all the rules and cover the costs of that, whilst the supermarkets seem to be able to get away with whatever they want to get away with.

One speaker kept sheep, and when a lamb was ordered it was taken to the abattoir and she watched the process in order to ensure that what she brought back was that very animal, right down (out?) to the skin, which she took to be cured and sold as well.

Supermarkets have an unfair advantage as they seem to be required to police themselves most of the time and even when found out one decided not to make an announcement for some days. Though the products were withdrawn from sale many thousands of ready meals containing horsemeat must have been eaten during the time they kept quiet.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 12:57 PM

Rumncoke is right. This, of course, is what happens when a few mighty corporations take over the whole industry and are thus able to control everything and get away with murder. One even wonders if corruption is involved. The 'small farmer' has to comply and pay the costs of that, so is discouraged from continuing. I always try to support the local growers and producers. It protects me and hopefully keeps them going. I've noticed two local butcher's shops have big signs in their windows, "Our meat is what it's supposed to be!" and "We don't sell horsemeat here!"


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 02:42 PM

Todmorden.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 12 Feb 13 - 02:52 PM

hahahaha Dave. I notice that, in spite of the closure of an abattoir there where horsemeat was found, there's a website promoting sourced food in Todmorden. It's called ... wait for it...'Incredible-Edible'! Precisely!!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:57 AM

I hear trotted out again and again, Just because it's Horse when it's labelled Beef doesn't mean it's not safe to eat.
But we know they're lying!!!!


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:13 AM

I've noticed lots of TV ads for Quorn, the soya meat-substitute. I bet people are trying it for the first time. Anyone here tasted it? Is it just like meat, or not?


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Rumncoke
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:54 AM

Now the authorities here are being silly - perfectly legitimate meat producers have been targeted for handling horse meat.

Horse carcases from Ireland are being broken down for sending on to Belgium in a cutting plant. The meat is not processed, not made into meals, mince or burgers, simply boxed up and loaded onto wagons for export.

In an interview for TV the owner pointed out that all the paperwork was in order, and despite reports that they had been shut down, the place was open and working as usual.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Mr Red
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:20 PM

I had a very stringy brisket in a roadside bistro 20 years ago, somewhere near Lens (France). And wine flowed pretty freely too.

It was not beef that is for sure. It was perfectly edible, and tender - probably boiled..

My mother used to refer to the war years in the UK, when a lump of beef would get a lot tougher in places - she reckoned they (Argentinians?) folded the beef with a slice of horse.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: Stanron
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:23 PM

"I've noticed lots of TV ads for Quorn, the soya meat-substitute. I bet people are trying it for the first time. Anyone here tasted it? Is it just like meat, or not?"

It's better than textured vegetable protein (the soya stuff). Also more expensive. I don't think quorn has flavour before flavours are added. It goes well in stews and I occasionally do a revised version of the English breakfast with quorn sausages and bacon flavoured quorn slices, a fried onion and an egg or two. By the time I've drowned it in brown sauce it tastes just fine.


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Subject: RE: Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 03:07 PM

"Where can I buy Horsemeat. UK."

Ask someone on here who peddles horseshit!

GfS


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