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BS: Were Jeeps German cars?

Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 13 - 03:22 AM
gnu 13 Jan 13 - 04:56 AM
John MacKenzie 13 Jan 13 - 05:03 AM
MartinRyan 13 Jan 13 - 05:04 AM
Charmion 13 Jan 13 - 07:26 AM
kendall 13 Jan 13 - 07:34 AM
Rapparee 13 Jan 13 - 08:42 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 13 Jan 13 - 09:03 AM
GUEST,Lighter 13 Jan 13 - 09:09 AM
Bobert 13 Jan 13 - 09:18 AM
JohnInKansas 13 Jan 13 - 10:01 AM
number 6 13 Jan 13 - 10:01 AM
Ebbie 13 Jan 13 - 12:18 PM
Bobert 13 Jan 13 - 12:32 PM
number 6 13 Jan 13 - 01:16 PM
pdq 13 Jan 13 - 01:20 PM
number 6 13 Jan 13 - 01:21 PM
pdq 13 Jan 13 - 01:51 PM
Don Firth 13 Jan 13 - 02:33 PM
Don Firth 13 Jan 13 - 02:40 PM
kendall 13 Jan 13 - 03:18 PM
pdq 13 Jan 13 - 03:25 PM
ChanteyLass 13 Jan 13 - 04:02 PM
JohnInKansas 13 Jan 13 - 04:07 PM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 13 - 04:20 PM
number 6 13 Jan 13 - 05:15 PM
MarkS 13 Jan 13 - 08:28 PM
gnu 13 Jan 13 - 08:40 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 13 Jan 13 - 08:48 PM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jan 13 - 09:26 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 13 Jan 13 - 10:19 PM
Jack the Sailor 14 Jan 13 - 02:49 AM
number 6 14 Jan 13 - 09:24 AM
Catherine Jayne 14 Jan 13 - 02:49 PM
Little Hawk 14 Jan 13 - 03:05 PM
Jack the Sailor 14 Jan 13 - 03:48 PM
Little Hawk 14 Jan 13 - 04:06 PM
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Subject: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:22 AM

Are they now Italian?


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 04:56 AM

I thought they were "US". Willys Jeep?


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:03 AM

The name Jeep derives from the initials GP, which stood for General Purpose. I believe they were American in origin, but not 100% sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:04 AM

Click here


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Charmion
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 07:26 AM

That Wikipedia article certainly covers the map, Martin.

I learned to drive in a 1949 Willys "four by four" as it was known in the Canadian army. The word Jeep was too American for our taste.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 07:34 AM

Anyone remember the cartoon character "Gerald the Jeep"? A strange little being in the Popeye cartoons.

American Bantam came up with the first Jeep, but they were screwed out of the contract because it was feared that the company wasn't big enough to produce the number of vehicles that Uncle Sam needed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 08:42 AM

You mean the Truck, Utility, 1/4 Ton, M---. When I first went in was the M38A1, by 1968 it was the M151 - made by Ford and subject to rolling over at the worst possible moment. You might use a "jeep" in the US military, but after that you took a "3/4" (refers to tonnage) or a "five quarter" (M715, 1.25 tons). For heavier loads there were "deuce and halfs" which were can "six bys" or "six by sixes" by the Marines (referring to six wheels getting drive traction) or "five tons" or "draggin' wagons" (10 tons).


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 09:03 AM

Jeeps have never been dependable enough to be German, but not quite undependable enough to be Italian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 09:09 AM

Eugene the Jeep.

I remember him well - though only from later comic books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 09:18 AM

Thread drift:

The Germans built Kueblewagens during WW II which were the early Volkswagens and designed by Dr. Ferdinand Porsche... They looked very much like the VW Thing...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 10:01 AM

Related to another thread, possibly the "doggiest" vehicle I ever drove was an M38A1 jeep. (The link to the other thread is that the second was a 1951 Plymouth Valiant.)

The Army had started an "endurance test of a modified brake fluid" and about a third of the way through the test the M38A1, according to regulations**, was "required to be scrapped." The only way to keep it in the test was for me to "volunteer" to take it as an "administrative vehicle" in place of the Scout I had been assigned to share.

I was somewhat reluctantly declared to be a volunteer.

It required a rather exotic starting procedure, but never failed to start for me. It was incredibly reliable, in that despite my warnings to the dozen or so associates who asked to "borrow it to run up to the track" I could rely 100% on my expectation that NOBODY WOULD EVER DRIVE IT BACK, even after I'd explained the starting procedure required before letting them take it. (Only a couple of them actually walked back the 7.5 miles to the office. I usually had to hitch a ride to get them and it.)

The shop refused to work on it, but out of curiosity I pulled the plugs and did a compression check once. MAXIMUM compression I could squeeze it up to was about 18 psi on one cylinder. The others were lower.

Fortunately I only had to drive it for about 4 months. The others quit asking for the loan after about the first month, so I did have my own "private" vehicle for a while.

** Regulations at the time required that when the cost of parts replaced equalled the original cost of the vehicle the vehicle had to be scrapped. Now you have some idea of what kind of shape all those real "Army Surplus" ones you drooled over were likely to be in?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 10:01 AM

The VW thing was a later version of the Kueblewagen ... unlike the Willy's jeep they were not a 4 x 4.

The current Jeep is now just a brand under the Chrysler Corp, Fiat is another division within that family ... The Jeep as we remember it basically disappeared when Chrysler took over AMC, the CJ turned into the TJ, YJ or whatever they became, even though they still have retained that AMC straight inline 6.

I have had 2 CJ's in the past and fondly remember them. They were extremely easy to work on and the bodies could take a beating. The carbs sucked on them, but then again easy to repair and replace.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 12:18 PM

Nah. They were never German cars. We would be calling them 'Yeeps'. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 12:32 PM

If I am not mistaken the Jeeps used in WW II were made by Willis... No???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 01:16 PM

Willys ... or Willys-Overland Motors ... and it was American.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: pdq
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 01:20 PM

The name Jeep is a protected trademark owned by Chrysler.

It definitely came from the Popeye comic book and cartoon character which debuted in 1936.

"A Jeep is an animal living in a three dimensional world—in this case our world—but really belonging to a fourth dimensional world. Here's what happened. A number of Jeep life cells were somehow forced through the dimensional barrier into our world. They combined at a favorable time with free life cells of the African Hooey Hound. The electrical vibrations of the Hooey Hound cell and the foreign cell were the same. They were kindred cells. In fact, all things are, to some extent, relative, whether they be of this or some other world, now you see. The extremely favorable conditions of germination in Africa caused a fusion of these life cells. So the uniting of kindred cells caused a transmutation. The result, a mysterious strange animal."


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 01:21 PM

Willys in Toledo Ohio ... I remember driving through Toledo on the freeway seeing the big smoke stack at the factory with Willys painted on it.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: pdq
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 01:51 PM

Cast of characters from Popeye comic strip, late 1930s:

                                                                                                                including Jeep


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 02:33 PM

Cross-posted, but I'll post it anyway.
======

Eugene the Jeep was a little character in the "Popeye" comic strip way back in the late Thirties and Forties. I think most people were under the impression that American soldiers called the rough-riding vehicle a "jeep," after the little critter, for purely whimsical reasons, then learned that it was derived from "GP" for "general purpose vehicle."

The jeep (vehicle) was legendary for being bouncy and rough, but that was probably because of its relatively short wheel-base and the fact that it was often driven off-road over rough terrain.

There were lots of cartoons about the vehicle during World War II. Probably most famously, Bill Mauldin's cartoon about an old time cavalry office dealing with a broken front axle.   BANG!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 02:40 PM

Before someone jumps my case, let me correct my own boo-boo:

He's a non-commissioned office. Looks like Master Seargeant as far as I can tell.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:18 PM

Eugene the Jeep is right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: pdq
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 03:25 PM

American Bantam version: BRC (Bantam Reconnaissance Vehicle)

Willys-Overland version: MA (Military and Model "A"), later improved version was MB

Ford Motor Company version: GPW

NOTE: nobody called it the GP. All the others mentioned are internal designations anyway.

It was formally the Truck, 1/4 ton, 4x4 according to the military.

The name Jeep was given to it by soldiers and came from the Popeye comic character.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 04:02 PM

Perhaps the thread title question comes from the fact that during World Wars I and II Heinie (short for Heinrich) was used to mock Germans, and US soldiers during WW II referred to Volkswagens as Heinie Jeeps.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 04:07 PM

The last incarnation of the military jeep in widespread use was probably the M38A1 or possibly M38A3(?), which had solid axles, three speed tranny with a two speed transfer box. Excellent ability to get through rough stuff, but pretty mediocre on a decent road.

ca. 1965 when I had my love afair with the M38 beast (see above) the "replacement" M151 was being phased in. The M151 was made by Ford, with four wheel independent suspension, four speed gearbox, and no transfer case.

The elimination of the need to swap back and forth in the transfer case, and the independent suspension, made the M151 a more fun (i.e. didn't shock your kidneys quite as much) but eliminating the transfer box, in the opinion of most of the test drivers, made it a little less able in the rough stuff.

On a good road, the M151 was a better ride, faster and more responsive than the M38, and agile enough ...


... ... to flip you into a ditch even better than an early Corvair.


(But maybe that impression was just because it was new and people weren't used to it ...?)

The troops still called it a jeep, even at the risk of the (DRM?) lawsuits. That name has probably faded (tarnished?) some since, simply because the US military uses so many kinds of specialized/different vehicles that all look a lot alike that one has to be pretty specific, so the Model Numbers or individualized nicknames (NATO names?) are more used - at least by those I've talked to since.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 04:20 PM

The thread title comes from the fact that a few years ago Daimler owned Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep. Now Fiat does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: number 6
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 05:15 PM

I guess in retrospect, the Jeep was a German vehicle for a rather short period of time (in it's history) ... as of now they are an Italian vehicle ... and about the same crappy quality of a Fiat 500.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: MarkS
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 08:28 PM

Rap

"When I first went in was the M38A1, by 1968 it was the M151 - made by Ford and subject to rolling over at the worst possible moment"

Right on

Been there, done that, got the scars.

Also busted the windshield of one of these with my head after being thrown forward following hitting a rut. Fortunately I was wearing a steel helmet at the time.

Say, maybe that explains a lot of my later in life stuff!!

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 08:40 PM

"and about the same crappy quality"

Yeah. No auto tranny, no AC... not even a cover over the gas cap! Yet Yuppies still pay FAR more for a Jeep than they are worth and I'll bet half of them never see an alder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 08:48 PM

I got the Daimler/Fiat allusion. But I don't think the "nationality" of a car is determined by the nationality of the parent corporation. Were Volvos American cars when Ford owned the company? And are they Chinese now? Nah! They're Swedish, have always been Swedish, and will remain Swedish unless their Chinese parent company chooses to close the Swedish plant(s) and move 100% of production elsewhere.

Conversely, "nationality" is also not determined by the actual place of manufacture. A KIA made in Lagrange, Georgia or a Hyundai made in Montgomery, Alabama is still a Korean car, not an American car. For the last couple of years the original Volkswagen Beetle was in production, they were all made in Mexico. Not a one was made in Germany, but they were still German cars, not Mexican.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 09:26 PM

Well BWL that is a legit opinion. But I never got used to German men being introduced on TV as "The President of Chrysler."

Certainly Jeeps became slightly more German and Volvos more American as technologies and management ideas were shared.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Jan 13 - 10:19 PM

The idea that some of Daimler's engineering excellence would rub off on Chrysler was touted as being one of the big advantages of the merger. But I don't think it really panned out. There's only so much that goes into a $60,000 car that can be applied to a $20,000 car and still have it be a $20,000 car. The engineers who design and build Jeep Liberties may have a thorough understanding of how Mercedes G-Class SUVs are built, but that knowledge doesn't do them much good if their job is to build Jeeps that sell for Jeep prices, not Mercedes prices.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 02:49 AM

I saw some news coverage on how they built Crossfires with Mercedes designed drive trains and suspensions. They reportedly modernized manufacturing methods and managements. But I guess that could have just been a culture change.

High end Chryslers and Jeeps are not cheap. I think they could have been made competitively. The problem I see is are the Chrysler Dodge and Jeep brands.

"Jeeps that sell for Jeep prices, not Mercedes prices. "

According to this article. There is one such Car.

"Despite the fact it had been nearly four years after the Daimler/Chrysler split, the fourth-generation Jeep Grand Cherokee shares a platform with the Mercedes-Benz M-Class .[9]"

So I guess that the answer to my OP id that one model of Jeep is still German, partly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: number 6
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 09:24 AM

The Mercedes-Benz M-Class first generation which was produced and launched during the Chrysler era was an over priced, substandard Mercedes ... in fact I think it was even built in Alabama ... anyway the quality and standards of the latest M-Class (non Chrysler) has improved significantly.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 02:49 PM

We have a 1955 Willys Jeep, still in working order.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 03:05 PM

The Jeep is American in origin. The Germans used the Kubelwagen (as Bobert noted earlier...it closely resembled the Volkswagen "Thing"...but sometimes was mounted with a flexible machine gun). It's sort of similar to a jeep in concept. And the Germans also used the early Volkswagen bug as a personnel car for chaufferring officers around. There were numerous French and German civilian autos used for the latter purpose, often repainted in military colours and insignia.


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 03:48 PM

A fun vw-kubelwagen article

It seems that that car, the Type 82 version, was partly American.

" And it received a more substantial body, which was built by Ambi-Budd, an American-owned company."


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Subject: RE: BS: Were Jeeps German cars?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jan 13 - 04:06 PM

Great article! And I forgot about the Schwimmwagen, Germany's amphibious VW. It was a real masterpiece of innovative design. My father told me that he and the rest of his tank crew got hold of one at the end of the war and drove it around for the afternoon, taking it directly across a local river and back again. They were well impressed with its abilities, and hoped to use it to charm the local girls (the main thing on their minds at the time).


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