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BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

GUEST,999 21 Jan 13 - 01:25 PM
pdq 21 Jan 13 - 01:12 PM
GUEST,999 21 Jan 13 - 01:06 PM
Ron Davies 20 Jan 13 - 10:30 PM
Ron Davies 20 Jan 13 - 10:29 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 13 - 10:20 PM
pdq 20 Jan 13 - 08:43 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 13 - 08:31 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 13 - 08:29 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 13 - 08:26 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 13 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,999 20 Jan 13 - 08:11 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 13 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,999 20 Jan 13 - 07:51 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 13 - 07:08 PM
bobad 20 Jan 13 - 06:50 PM
gnu 20 Jan 13 - 06:23 PM
olddude 20 Jan 13 - 06:12 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 13 - 05:26 PM
Bobert 18 Jan 13 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,Backwoodsman 18 Jan 13 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,olddude 18 Jan 13 - 08:03 AM
GUEST,Lighter 18 Jan 13 - 07:38 AM
Ron Davies 17 Jan 13 - 09:55 PM
Ron Davies 17 Jan 13 - 09:53 PM
Bill D 17 Jan 13 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,999 17 Jan 13 - 12:51 PM
olddude 17 Jan 13 - 12:34 PM
olddude 17 Jan 13 - 11:51 AM
Bill D 17 Jan 13 - 11:03 AM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 10:26 PM
GUEST,999 16 Jan 13 - 10:24 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 09:21 PM
GUEST,999 16 Jan 13 - 09:14 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 08:46 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,999 16 Jan 13 - 08:42 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 08:37 PM
GUEST,999 16 Jan 13 - 08:31 PM
gnu 16 Jan 13 - 08:17 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 08:16 PM
olddude 16 Jan 13 - 08:12 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 08:08 PM
GUEST,999 16 Jan 13 - 08:03 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 07:57 PM
olddude 16 Jan 13 - 07:54 PM
olddude 16 Jan 13 - 07:52 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 07:42 PM
Ron Davies 16 Jan 13 - 07:36 PM
Bobert 16 Jan 13 - 07:27 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 01:25 PM

pdq, your figure may not be accurate.

"The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2006 to 2010. During the same time period, the FBI estimated, on average, more than 16,000 homicides across the United States (www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl01.xls). These estimates suggest that gang-related homicides typically accounted for around 12 percent of all homicides annually."


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 01:12 PM

About 90% of all gun murders in the US are gang-related.

If people really want to reduce the body count they need to start talking about the gangs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 01:06 PM

Subtlety: it's never been your long suit, Ron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 10:30 PM

Hope I'm not too subtle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 10:29 PM

Right, pdq.

I understand the 7 year old shot his 5 year old brother since the brother belonged to a different gang. too.

Your desperate defense of the US being awash in handguns is totally despicable.

You ought to go down on your knees and ask the Lord to forgive you. You really need it.

Your kind is directly responsible for the handgun carnage in the US.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 10:20 PM

The math and simple logic tell you that no matter who did it, the easy availability of 'serious'guns like assault rifles make it more likely that they will fall into the wrong hands.
If there are 100 'legally' owned the odds are less of them getting stolen or ILLEGALLY sold, than if there are 50,000 legally owned. If there were detailed records of who purchased each one and who sold it to whom, and jail time for misuse and/or illegal sales, there might not be a story like this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:43 PM

It is likely that the Albuquerque shooting that left 5 dead was both gang-related and done by an illegal alien.

There were several guns but the news media focus on the 'military style' rifle.

Anyone want to guess whether these guns are legally owned?

The news media, as usual, will tell the real story days later after their 'first impression news' has been fixed in people's minds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:31 PM

Let's see if I can pull this off???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:29 PM

Sorry, Bill, but I did... Seems these event happen every day somewhere...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:26 PM

Did everyone miss MY posting of the same story at 5:26? I'm never sure when the subsequent posts just go off in other directions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:23 PM

Yup, those killing wouldn't have happened with sane gun laws...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 08:11 PM

Go to the top of the page for the story.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/teenage-gunman-fatally-shoots-5-in-us-home-suspect-in-custody-1.1121909#commentsForm-362335


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 07:56 PM

Yes... A big 5 straight up... No "good time" early release... I will guarantee that such legislation would cut the shootings in the country by half in the first year while not depriving one single good guy his right to own his Glock...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 07:51 PM

No parole. Might help.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 07:08 PM

I don't think it's inane to require handguns be registered, tracked and folks who own them have to prove they have some proficiency in handling them... This wouldn't impact the good guys all that much...

People say, "Well, the bad guys won't cooperate"... Great, as part of the law let it be known that by such-a-such date you either comply or face 5 years in prison if you are caught with a handgun and hadn't complied...

Don't think this would work??? I do...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: bobad
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 06:50 PM

Yesterday was "Gun Appreciation Day" in the US. Here's a List of People Injured or Killed by Guns on 'Gun Appreciation Day' casualties of gun appreciation day


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 06:23 PM

All part of the plan, Dan. Inane gun laws meant to antagonize honest people so they won't support ANY gun laws. More fuel for the gun nuts that donate $$$ to the NRA... more $ for the NRA... more $ for the bank accounts of politicians.

All while people die.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 06:12 PM

Well my cop friends just told me I have to carry only seven rounds in the glock and leave the other seven empty. Well if I had to shoot seven times I wouldn't need the thing anyway cause I would be dead .. The gun laws are nuts ... now I agree with the law for the long guns. The only reason I can see that people want the assault rifle is because of its large large magazine capacity ... But like I said the NY law on handguns makes no sense since you are only singling out people who are licensed and the state said you are a good guy go ahead and carry. Since no one in the state is allowed a handgun without the license it makes little sense .


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 05:26 PM

It never ends

With the inauguration this weekend, and 'only' 5 deaths, this one may not get much notice.... like most of the 700+ that have died since Sandy Hook.


" A teenage boy faces murder and other charges in the shooting deaths of a man, a woman and three children in a home on the outskirts of Albuquerque, New Mexico, authorities said Sunday.
...

Williamson said each victim had been shot multiple times. Several guns were found inside the home, including a "military-style" rifle he said had been used in the crime."


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:45 AM

As to the pistol and a handgun being different??? Nah, they are both handguns... I think that folks think of the pistol as having a cylinder like the guns in the cowboy movies but it is still a handgun... These days most folks have no interest in that kind of weapon because it's old technology... Everything is relative:

"My very first pistol was a cap and ball Colt
Shoot fast as lightnin' but load a might slow
Loads a might slow, I soon found out
It'll get you into trouble but won't get you out

So then I went and bought me a Colt 45
Called a Peacemaker but I never knew why
Never knew why, didn't understand
Mama says "The pistol is the devil's right hand"

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:09 AM

None whatsoever. It's designed to reinforce the paranoia and illogical pants-shitting fear of shadows that has been bred and ingrained into many (most?) Americans over the years. It must be a bloody awful way to live your life, I thank God I live in a country where guns are rare and we don't live in fear of your 'Mad Dog Killers' or 'The Bad Guys'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:03 AM

I agree with Lighter


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 07:38 AM

The allegedly "conservative" position seems to be, "If you can't stop all mass shootings by lunatics, or even some individual shootings, don't even try - because if you do, Big Brother will break into our homes to confiscate our legal firearms as America sinks into nightmare dictatorship."

Make sense?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 09:55 PM

" before making such a brilliant statement"    "that is often the case"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 09:53 PM

"handguns and pistols are different". Sure they are.

Perhaps you'd like to consult a dictionary before such a brilliant statement.

Mine says a pistol is a type of handgun.

Dictionaries can be surprisingly helpful if one actually wants to make sense.   But of course, perhaps that's not the goal of the poster. On Mudcat it seems that often the case.

An amazing number of people are far more interested in heat than light.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 02:21 PM

In some ways, ammunition IS a major part of the problem. There are enough guns of various types out there that we could search forever and not 'take away' a significant percent..... but unless they can get new ammo to replace what they use, (and some of these guys cannot bear to give up 'practicing'), it could lead to higher prices and reduced supply.
(and no... most of these guys could NOT 'load their own' for most types)

There is no single, simple way to reduce the horrible statistics.... not even with a guard at every school. **IF** every school had gates & guards, crazy fools who just want to kill will find other targets and locations... buses, playgrounds, more malls, theaters, stadiums...etc.
It would be a huge 'live' version of Whack-a-mole!... and there will never be a shortage of crazy fools who can beg, borrow or steal weapons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 12:51 PM

Ammunition is not the problem. It's easy enough to remove a projectile (rifle bullet) and reverse it, reset it and it'll keep its course for 200 yards. The damage from it is incredible. So even with standard load cartridges, there's no real way to limit killing by dickin' around with ammunition laws. Other than a total mind readjustment of way too many gun owners, the only other option is gun laws that have teeth AND are enforced, both necessary if one hopes to reduce the death rate caused by people who have guns so readily available to them. imo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 12:34 PM

and Bobster, ya ain't going to bring down a elk or moose or bear with a .22
that's why a ott six or a .308 is so good. Ya can load it up for Alaska brown bear or you can load it down for deer or use standard round for Elk.

Can't limit Ammo, won't work unless it is Teflon cop killer bullets or explosive tips etc but they don't sell them and you really can't make them..


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 11:51 AM

Bobster no one should own a handgun unless they meet New York standards. Now if they can pass all that shit, go ahead cause it is a good guy packing. I wish the feds would pass that law. Like I said we have to have the same BG tests and the same skills as a state police officer. And they will not give you a conceal carry permit unless you do have just cause. That one is not easy at all to get. I have one .. but they don't issue many. Hunting with a handgun takes a lot of skill. Many sportsman like myself hunted deer with a handgun since in my county up until last year, you could only use a shotgun or handgun if you had a license. Now semi auto handguns, designed only for defense is correct, however it is the weapon of choice for competitive shooters. There is a long history of semi auto sports shooting. The US government started competitions after WWI and would actually give medals for citizen skills .. How things have changed. Although you don't think so, I am on your side and so is most sportsmen. WE don't want bad guys getting these things. Now for the AR, I don't understand why anyone wants one. A semi auto AR or AK is like having a pocket watch with no dial. If a collector wants one get a real one with a Class III FFL.   Then you can go out and get a ma duece.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 11:03 AM

"Well regulated militia"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 10:26 PM

900 Americans have been murdered in the 30 days since Sandy Hook...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 10:24 PM

The National Rifle Association leadership seems to bullshit about the number of members it has. People keep flinging around the 4 million figure. I doubt it's even as high as 2/3rds of that. I do not know why the US government even allows them into the conversation given their track record. I wish Washington would wake up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 09:21 PM

The problem with that is that for every bad guy who gets killed another 99 good guys (or not so bad) get killed, too... If I had it my way there would be no semi-automatic handguns in the world... Their only use is killing other people...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 09:14 PM

As an aside, many gang deaths are included in Canada's figure. Most of us don't give a shit about that. The more they kill each other the better it is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:46 PM

Yup, brucie... That's it... Obama and gun control people understand this fully well... We all know the problems... It's just that we need to get the pump primed... Like I said, "first step, long journey"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:42 PM

BTW, when it comes to ammo... Back in the holler in the Va. mountains we had trouble with deer... My rifle is a .410/.022 over under "survival" rifle and the P-Vine would occasionally get real pissed at a deer in her garden... I used the cheapie .022 ammo from Walmart and could usually kill Mr. Deer with a single round... No hollow point... No nutin'... Just a chuck of lead...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:42 PM

So lemme see if I have this right. One failed attempt with a shoe bomb and we all take our shoes off at the airport. Ten thousand handgun deaths and nothing should change. I get it now. Right. Uh huh. Yeah. Yeppers. Clear as a fucking bell.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:37 PM

No, I get it 100% Gn-ze... Semi-automatic handguns are what are killing 99% of Americans... I am terribly disappointed that we aren't talking about them...

I think that we need to get something on the books just as starting point... Seein' as people are locked in on military style rifles then this is possibly the only 1st step in a long journey...

Please understand that you and I are on the same page...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:31 PM

Posted again without comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:17 PM

Bobert..."If this be "greandstanding", then perhaps the poster can tell us just why anybody outside the police and the military needs a pistol."

Yeah... I, as the poster, can tell you EXACTLY what I have said all along... THEY DO NOT NEED A HANDGUN! (Handguns and pistols are different. Technical point but worth understanding for the purpose of dicussion).

Why do NONE of you read my posts? Not even Bobert? Damn, man... yer one of the good guys and even YOU don't read my posts. THAT was my complaint just now and it's my complaint immediately again based on you misinterpretation of what I SAID... in MANY posts in MANY threads. I am on your side but your side just don't seem to wanna DO anything or listen to ANYONE... including me. Haven't seen any evidence otherwise yet.

So, again, when yer bleedin, it's yer own fault. I gotta take a nap. I shant be awakened by gunfire. We still have some good gun laws in Canada... for a while... >;-(


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:16 PM

Ahhhhh, hollow points!!! Yes, good ol' hollow points designed to kill people... Why are they legal ammo, Ol-ster???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:12 PM

No Bob, he used hollow point in the handgun, which most handguns today are designed to use exclusively ... guns like the glock are not safe to use hardball ammo. And yes it expands and kills, that is why it is called deadly force. In the AR in Nam they use exclusively like in the current conflicts full metal jacketed which are metal piercing. Not because it causes less damage but because it shoots through troop transports and cinder blocks and body armor. Hollow points are useless in the military. The reporting of ammo is new people who don't know weapons. It is not the ammo, it is the weapon the ammo goes in. Example. Swat teams use hollow point .308 rounds in their sniper guns. The .308 hollow point is probably the most used deer round there is besides the .3006 ... Now is the .308 a military ammo yup is it a sportman ammo yup ... difference is, the weapon it is used in


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:08 PM

48 year old guy died today in Richomnd from being accidentally shot by his 4 year old nephew...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 08:03 PM

Posted without comment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:57 PM

It's not the caliber, Ol'ster... What has been reported is that the kind of ammo used at Sandy Hook is described as the type of ammunition that is "designed" to inflict the most damage after it makes contact... That tells me that there must be another kind of ammo that doesn't do as much damage...

Now I've heard this several times from several news sources... The point is that if there is an ammunition that is out there that is all but guaranteed to kill no matter where the bullet enters the body then I don't want that ammo on the street... I recall my buddies talking about the M-16's ammo in Nam and that's what they described... Sounds like a special class of ammo to me...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:54 PM

and what is the difference, those weapons have a number of high capacity drum clips, 100 rounds each. also easy to make fully auto since that is what it was designed to do, single shot, three round burst, or fully auto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:52 PM

Bob the .223 ammo is as common as grass. Many people just use the .222 ammo in the AR ... fires the same .. like a .32 special deer rifle can use 3030 cartridge also. the .223 is typically a hard ball or full metal jacketed round but you can get the .222 in hollow points if you so wish. That is a varmint round for woodchucks etc. Nothing special about the AR round or the AK round .. common rounds for hunting also.. The weapons however are designed for military use via its rate of fire and its setup. Not designed for hunting at all but bolt action hunting rifles can and do use the same rounds in a number of bolt action sports guns, 30 cal is a standard deer round. 222 is a standard varmint round


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:42 PM

George H. W. Bush is credited with inventing "The Elitist" who has served as a reliable boogie man for right wing...

I find it interesting that the NRA's first ad pulled out "The Elitist" for another round of kicking by wacko-nation...

Next up??? Obama's daughters??? These people a sickos...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:36 PM

If this be "greandstanding", then perhaps the poster can tell us just why anybody outside the police and the military needs a pistol.

The few times a homeowner drives a would-be criminal away with a pistol may make good press-- (we've seen some colorful stories on this thread which seem to fit snugly the macho image fondly cultivated by some guys) --but they are swamped hugely by the times people are shot by relatives or people they know--not to mention the mass shootings which seem to increase yearly.

It's time to make it less easy for people--whether wacko or not--- to reach for a pistol to solve arguments. It actually should be just as macho to solve problems with fists or knives--and the body count will sink dramatically.

And spare us the drivel about "only outlaws will have guns".   Wrong.   You can keep your rifles (not semi-automatic or automatic) and the police and military will still be armed to the teeth--which I'm sure is a great comfort to you. If the police are not up to your standards, the public can make them improve.

Of course you can also forget about hiding in the threadbare 2nd Amendment, which, as I noted earlier, was never intended for an "every man his own militia" approach a la the NRA--and is now hugely outdated for the purpose it was in fact designed---which never did work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 13 - 07:27 PM

Well, then how did the shooter at Sandy Hook have this ammo if his mother bought everything legally, Ol-ster???

B~


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