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BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

beardedbruce 31 Jul 19 - 11:59 AM
punkfolkrocker 31 Jul 19 - 11:24 AM
Backwoodsman 31 Jul 19 - 11:16 AM
Mrrzy 31 Jul 19 - 11:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 31 Jul 19 - 04:47 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Jul 19 - 12:48 PM
Backwoodsman 30 Jul 19 - 12:12 PM
Mrrzy 30 Jul 19 - 10:46 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jul 19 - 04:21 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Jul 19 - 03:43 AM
Backwoodsman 30 Jul 19 - 03:38 AM
Mrrzy 29 Jul 19 - 10:33 PM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 19 - 07:06 PM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 19 - 07:02 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 29 Jul 19 - 04:45 PM
Jack Campin 29 Jul 19 - 04:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 29 Jul 19 - 01:50 PM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 19 - 01:39 PM
Backwoodsman 29 Jul 19 - 12:05 PM
punkfolkrocker 29 Jul 19 - 11:42 AM
Mrrzy 29 Jul 19 - 11:40 AM
Stilly River Sage 29 Jul 19 - 11:34 AM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 19 - 11:31 AM
beardedbruce 29 Jul 19 - 11:30 AM
SPB-Cooperator 29 Jul 19 - 09:22 AM
Mossback 29 Jul 19 - 09:12 AM
SPB-Cooperator 29 Jul 19 - 08:51 AM
Donuel 24 May 16 - 12:25 AM
Greg F. 23 May 16 - 12:34 PM
Donuel 22 May 16 - 06:19 PM
Jack Campin 22 May 16 - 10:43 AM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Mar 13 - 08:39 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 28 Mar 13 - 08:34 AM
Backwoodsman 28 Mar 13 - 02:53 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Mar 13 - 08:08 PM
Bobert 27 Mar 13 - 08:37 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Mar 13 - 08:18 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 27 Mar 13 - 07:25 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 27 Mar 13 - 06:11 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Mar 13 - 06:02 AM
Backwoodsman 27 Mar 13 - 02:40 AM
GUEST,Stim 26 Mar 13 - 09:58 PM
Backwoodsman 26 Mar 13 - 04:31 PM
Bobert 26 Mar 13 - 03:01 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 13 - 02:37 PM
Backwoodsman 26 Mar 13 - 02:09 PM
GUEST,Backwoodsman 26 Mar 13 - 01:04 PM
Bill D 26 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM
GUEST,Backwoodsman 26 Mar 13 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,Stim 25 Mar 13 - 11:26 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 11:59 AM

Most murders are by illegal guns ( those obtained illegally, or in the hands of those forbidden by law to have them).

I guess if passing a law against murder does not prevent murders, we must need to pass more laws against guns, right???

Just look at how well that works in California and Chicago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 11:24 AM

A gun amnesty in the USA..
The Govt buying back weapons from private citizens...???

errrrmmmm.. well.. It may have worked to some extent in other more reasonable nations...


It seems to me that the least impossible partial solution would be to prevent new guns and ammo being manufactured
and sold in America...???
.. and blocking imports of new weapons for civilians...

USA Govt would need to spend billions buying up Gun industry and factories,
at terms favourable to convince current owners to sell up...

Then spend more billions converting the factories and workforce to other products
like perhaps consumer goods currently imported from China...


Nah.. can't see that happening...


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 11:16 AM

True. Putting a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger really is not a ‘cry for help’!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 11:00 AM

Suicides, too. More attempts succeed with guns.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 04:47 AM

Two things emerge from stats that surprise me:

(1) Accidental gun deaths are less than 500, were popular believe is that this figure is much higher. Is this a myth propagated by NRA to justify their branding?
(2) Murders by what should be the only legitimate firearm owning - shotguns (eg for protecting livestock and protecting people from dangerous animals) is less than 300.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 12:48 PM

THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL - US STYLE
Tackle this and you can begin to address the problem
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 12:12 PM

Not up to me, Mrrzy. I’m pleased to say I don’t live there.

But sooner or later, the problem the US has created for itself will have to be faced and dealt with. And I repeat, the answer to the problem of too many guns and too many unsuitable owners is not, and cannot be, ‘More Guns’, no matter what the NRA and small-dick gun-nuts say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 10:46 AM

You gonna make'm?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 04:21 AM

Having said that in my previous post, I fully understand that it would be an almost impossible task to take 400 million guns away from a nation of fearful, angry gun-owners. But at some point, they have to get it through their terrified heads that ‘More Guns’ is not, and cannot be, the answer to the problem of too many guns and too many unsuitable owners too ready to use them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 03:43 AM

From what's happening in the US, it seems to me that the best method of control is that anybody who wishes to own one is automatically disqualified from doing so.


Here in the West of Ireland we are blessed with the presence of an American Journalist who HIT THE HEADLINES WAY BACK and, having been black-listed from several newspapers for her behaviour, disappeared from the scene for a while.
Some five years later, following an incident where a Traveller was found to be trespassing, the farmer, shot him, wounding him severely, beat him with a fence post and then, went indoors, reloaded, and executed the badly wounded man
The case was dismissed as it was deemed that the farmer was acting in self defence.
Mary Ellen Synon, in an interview on Kerry Radio, declared that "It was not just the right, but the duty of all rural property owners to carry arms to protect themselves against such intrusions.
JIm Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 03:38 AM

”Nobody disputes (I don't think) tjat more people are killed annually with knives than guns.”

Well I dispute it, and so do the statistics! Guns are overwhelmingly the most common means of committing murder in the USA.

In the UK in 2017, there were 31 shooting deaths in a population of c. 64 million. In the US, there were 12,128 in a population of c. 326 million.

In the UK, we aren’t allowed to possess handguns or assault-type rifles. In the US, it’s “Ma-a-ah Right, aa-a-awdained ba-a-ah Aa-a-awl-ma-a-ahty Ga-a-ad in the 2nd Amendment!”, or some such horse-shit.

It really isn’t difficult to do the maths and understand the correlation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 10:33 PM

Nobody disputes (I don't think) tjat more people are killed annually with knives than guns. But with a knife one person at one time can't kill anywhere nearly as many peple as one person with a gun, especially an assault rifle. And the correct use of a knife is usually cooking or eating, while the correct use of an assault rifle is killing large numbers of people at one time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 07:06 PM

The Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ranks California first in the nation for having the strongest gun laws.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 07:02 PM

California has every gun control the Democrats are pushing at the federal level.

California has confiscatory red flag laws, universal background checks, an “assault weapons” ban, a ten-day waiting period on gun purchases, a requirement that would-be gun buyers first secure a firearm safety certificate from the state, a limit on the number of guns a person may purchase in a month, a minimum purchase age of 21 years for long guns and handguns, a “good cause” requirement for concealed carry permit issuance, and numerous ammunition controls. Moreover, the Gilroy Garlic Festival was a gun-free zone.

Does it matter that the majority of the left has been pushing that laws one does not agree with are optional? Or that the truth is, 4 times as many people are killed each year by knives than "Assault Rifles", more people are killed with blunt objects than "Assault Rifles", but people don't want to have that conversation.

It's time that we we begin to discuss the mental health aspect behind all this much more. It's time that we go back to teach our children to value human life so that this never happens again. You can't tell me that the violence surrounding video games, and movies has not had a negative impact on our society. It absolutely has and it's time we make the changes needed on that front.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 04:45 PM

My poem, from WalkaboutsVerse, "Monopoly on Weaponry"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 04:40 PM

We could grant Trump that it might be difficult to get guns out of the hands of angry people.

But it would not be difficult at all to refrain from getting them angry enough to start shooting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 01:50 PM

See.. in the UK we can get worked up angry with other folks
without reaching for our guns...

btw.. I actually like guns, would collect them if I had the £££$$,
.. and I'd hope I'd be a sensible owner...
[we already have one legal owned shotgun death in the close family...]

However, I accept why UK law of the land says no,
and agree to abide by it...


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 01:39 PM

SRS,

YOU STATE:
Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stilly River Sage - PM
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:34 AM

Calling names means you have no useful answer, BB.
--------------------------------------------------

But I notice your ignoring

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback - PM
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 09:12 AM

Do take it up with President Trumpshit, the Republican Party and the NRA, eh?
-----------------------------------------------------------------


Which I was replying to.


You seem very selective in whom you apply your rules to.


Will you tell Mossback HE has no useful answer, or just select out those you disagree with to make meaningless comments about?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 12:05 PM

Those 400 million guns in civilian hands over there are doing a great job of making people’s dicks feel bigger, but they didn’t help the ones shot at the GarlicFest, did they? And they didn’t put the shooter off doing what he set out to do, did they?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:42 AM

Sadly, these days most folks reaction to this news report
may most likely be...

" oh.. another mass shooting in America...
But wait.. a what... ???? a GARLIC FESTIVAL ..!!!???
WTF.. a garlic festival...??? eh...???
Did you hear that just now on the news.. yes.. that's right.. a garlic festival..
oh.. yeah, there was a bit of a mass shooting at it..
BUT wtf is a garlic festival...??? Americans are so weird...
"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:40 AM

Hey, we (the populace) voted for the other person. Fat lot of good that did us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:34 AM

Calling names means you have no useful answer, BB.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:31 AM

PRC- Peoples Republic of California


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:30 AM

Mossback,

" U.S. citizens are IN FAVOR of reasonable gun control."

As opposed to the unreasonably strict and ineffective gun control PRESENTLY in place in the PRC?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 09:22 AM

It is down to you decent Americans to do something about it. All I can do is observe and comment, which I will do very time something like this happens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Mossback
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 09:12 AM

Do take it up with President Trumpshit, the Republican Party and the NRA, eh?

The majority of U.S. citizens are IN FAVOR of reasonable gun control.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 08:51 AM

Well, looks like you've done it again - Gilroy Garlic festival. I bet you are all proud that you have gun laws that allow ownership of weapons that are used to murder 6 year-old kids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 24 May 16 - 12:25 AM

Woo Hoo Fed Ex just dropped off my internet purchase of the gold plated TRUMP AR 15 with Trump on the stock and no safety. (its really a Brown and Wesson) A nice detail is the word trump inside the scope with the U serving as the cross hairs.

They also sell a sideways gold plated 9mm for blacks.(buy 11 and get 1 free)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 May 16 - 12:34 PM

Gun owners are twice as likely to shoot themselves dead as they are to kill anyone else

Well, then its way past time for them to get busy & go for it. A self-correcting problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Donuel
Date: 22 May 16 - 06:19 PM

The pride, the fun, the autonomic adrenaline, the psychological warm blanket effect, the camaraderie, the might makes right and the feeling of power like having the last word that demands respect,
are all too much for the part time or avid gun owner to sacrifice.

Yes you who brags of gun prowess and collection, you are too chicken shit to trade your personal fun for the lives of little children, cops and more likely than not your own family members.

You are an intentionally blind selfish person.

you are evil unknown to your self


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Jack Campin
Date: 22 May 16 - 10:43 AM

Two stories I read on the same day.

The US healthcare system may be brutally feudal but they've got equal access to euthanasia:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/80219738/elderly-american-man-says-he-killed-his-wife-because-they-couldnt-afford-medicine

And most "shooting tragedies" are not homicides. Gun owners are twice as likely to shoot themselves dead as they are to kill anyone else:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160519220528.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 08:39 AM

It hasn't always been difficult or illegal to own guns in the UK. At the time the US Constitution was adopted the law was essentially the same back here, and for well over a century. But aside from sporting toffs and farmers with shotguns, very few people were too. Interested in having guns, and there was no significant opposition as the law giot toughened up.

After the Dunblane massacre the popular demand for a heavy clampdown of all handguns was of course irresistible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 08:34 AM

Illegal guns will always be a problem, but a simple syatem could be used to keep track of all legal guns.

1. Close the gun show loophole and have proper background checks on every purchaser, with a waiting period of say 48 hours, during which the gun can be registered and test fired.

2. With a database containing the ballistic signature of every licensed gun, at least the innocent could be eliminated from enquiries, and with backgrounds checked before the gun is released, obvious nutjobs could be weeded out.

This would significantly reduce both the work of detection and the capture of anyone who kills with a legal gun.

3. Compulsory gunsafe for all licensed weapons, making it more difficult for them to be stolen.

Of all of these, I think the ballistics record the most useful.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Mar 13 - 02:53 AM

You're right, of course, McG, but I think the lack of desire (which I referred to in my earlier post) derives, to a great extent, from the fact that it's very difficult to be allowed to own a gun (impossible nowadays to legally own handguns or automatics) and so there's no mindset that gun ownership is either desirable or 'normal'. In fact, I'd suggest that most British people would regard anyone who had the kind of gun-mania that many Americans seem to suffer from, as having a serious psychological defect.

Making guns illegal, of itself, won't cure anything in a nation that's so obsessed with firearm-ownership,but it would have to be accompanied by a programme of removing existing guns - I guess by a firearms amnesty with financial compensation initially, but eventually by the imposition of heavy penalties for non-surrender of guns. The registered weapons should be relatively easy to track down, the big problem would be with guns held illegally (including illegally-held weapons in the hands of individuals who have no criminal record).

But the real answer is to achieve a change to the mindset of Americans that you're only safe if you have a gun. It's a symptom of a national paranoia, and you, I and every other British 'Catter know that it's simply not true.

And, good idea though it is, requiring attendance of gun-owners at regular training as part of this ludicrous, non-existent 'militia' would have them howling like banshees and running for the hills!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:08 PM

'The general public in the UK are not permitted to own firearms. '

That is true - but in itself it isn't the really significant difference, which is that the general public in the UK have no desire to own firearms. Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case for a very sizeable proportion of the US public, and while that is true, making them illegal wouldn't solve the problem.

That means that it would be more sensible for them to go ahead with stuff like cutting out crazy weapons like assault rifles, and blocking loophole like sales at gun fairs etc.

And an idea that came up earlier in this thread would make sense too - follow up on the US Constitution gun amendment, and oblige gun owners to take part in regular training in a 'well regulated militia', as a prerequisite for owning a gun.   Their patriotic duty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:37 AM

The NRA keeps telling everyone who will listen that crime rates are falling... What they don't want to talk about is that every year 100,000 Americans are shot with guns... No, not all die but that stat seems to hold up year after year after year...

In the words of the late Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 08:18 AM

Thanks For that, Don.

Unfortunately, with a few exceptions such as Bill and Bobert, it will go straight over the heads of the majority of our American friends, with their unfeasibly large gonads, unbelievably small penises, and amazing abilities of selective deafness and illiteracy,

None are so blind as they who will not see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 07:25 AM

Posted too soon.

All murder cases here remain open and cold case squads are in the process of mopping up the minute number which are still unsolved using the latest DNA technology.

The chances of getting away with murder here are significantly less than in most other countries, including the USA.

From 2000 to date, 30 murders remain unsolved in the UK (Northern Ireland troubles killings excluded, though that wouldn't be a large number post good friday agreement in Dec 1998).

Each year 6,000 killers get away with murder in America. That's according to a study of FBI records. The study found the rate of solved homicides since 1980 nationwide is 63%.

Those are the total murders of all types.

When you look at gun murders, the information is given as percentage cleared, without actual numbers.

Victim Killed by Handgun ........ 68

Victim Killed by Shotgun ........ 84

Victim Killed by Rifle .......... 86

Victim Killed by Other Guns ..... 60

By any standards, this is not a high clearance rate.

In the course of researching this I came acoss an article which expresses what we have been saying very succinctly. I think it's worth posting here, without further comment.

""The New Yorker

December 16, 2012
Guns and the Limits of Shame
Posted by Jon Lee Anderson

What does it take for a society to be sickened by its own behavior and to change its attitudes? That can be asked about questions of power and political repression—and also about distinctive national pathologies. When did a majority of South African Boers realize that Apartheid was reprehensible? How about whites in the American South? When will the Japanese force their whalers to stop, finally realizing that their persistence has caused widespread international revulsion and opprobrium? When will the British realize that public drunkenness—a practice now internationally associated with them as a nation—is something to be embarrassed about? When will we Americans realize that our society is an unacceptably violent one, that this is how the rest of the world sees us, and that much of that violence is associated with guns? Will it be the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School? Where is our threshold for self-awareness?

A few years ago, the British found their own threshold— with guns—after an event not unlike the heartbreaking tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut. On March 13, 1995, in the small Scottish town of Dunblane, a forty-three-year-old man, Thomas Hamilton walked into a primary school with four handguns and opened fire, methodically killing sixteen children and one adult teacher before killing himself. The unprecedented massacre of children led, within two years, to legislation that imposed a total ban on the private ownership of handguns in the United Kingdom. Today, no one in the United Kingdom can privately own a handgun or a semiautomatic weapon. (There are exceptions made for some historic and antique weapons, and the ban does not encompass Northern Ireland.) There was not much hand wringing or heated debate over this legislation. It was discussed, and enacted, with overwhelming public support, in response to the mood of national shame and grief over the killings.

There is still violence in Britain. In recent years, there has been a disquieting upsurge of violence amongst teen-agers in large British cities. Much of it is gang related, and almost all of it involves knives. Knives are not hard to obtain, but kill far fewer people than guns do. After the movie-theatre shooting in Aurora, Colorado, the Guardian did the math, comparing gun homicides in the U.S. to England and Wales in one year: 9,146 to forty-one. Even taking into account the difference in population, the rates of gun homicide per a hundred thousand people are 2.97 versus .07.

In China, where private gun ownership is also banned, but where social alienation is clearly becoming a larger problem, there have been a distressing number of recent attacks by deranged knife-wielding men on schoolchildren. On Friday, in fact, as Evan Osnos writes, in an incident with uncanny similarities to the Newtown massacre, a young man walked into the Chenpeng Village Primary School near the city of Xinyang, south of Beijing, and attacked the schoolchildren with a knife as they arrived at school. Twenty-two children were injured before the assailant, said to be a thirty-four-year-old man, was subdued and arrested by police—but there were no deaths. If he had been using a gun, the likelihood is that most of those children would now be dead.

A heated debate on new gun-control legislation has been sparked off by the Sandy Hook massacre. But if past patterns are anything to go by, it's unlikely that anything will change yet in the United States. What will it require for a majority of Americans to realize that they have a national problem that needs to be urgently addressed? We have lost four Presidents to gunmen in our short history as a nation, and very nearly lost several more. Last year, Arizona Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford's promising political career was cut short by a gunman who shot her in the head, killed six others and wounded thirteen more. Gifford spends her days now in therapy attempting to recover basic abilities like speech and eyesight, both of which were severely affected by her wounds.

But Americans seem to take the shooting of their politicians in stride. Would even another, much larger school massacre bring about change? If the numbers are on a truly epic scale—an American scale—perhaps enough people will finally say "enough." If someone murdered a hundred schoolchildren in a single day with guns, would a majority of Americans agree to true restrictions on them? What is our national threshold for shame?

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 06:11 AM

""Americans have been shooting each other for a long, long, time, Backwoodsman, they're not going to stop on based the British example. If there even is a British example--there is some feeling that murders there are under-reported because you don't have a comprehensive, centralized reporting system. I wouldn't know if that was accurate or not, but there is an old adage that runs, "If you're going to count them, first you've got to find them." ""

Don't know where you got that Stim, but it is pure undiluted bullshit. The Police National Computer is comprehensive nationwide.

The murder identification and detection rate in the UK is extremely effectiv and few murders remain unsolved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 06:02 AM

I wish I had an undertaker's business over there. The lunatic American obsession with firearms, the refusal to understand or accept there's a better way of life without guns, and steadfast reliance on the wilful mis-interpretation of an amendment to your Constitution, made 200 years ago and in a time where things were far, far different to the way they are today, certainly is good for business. Those guys must be cracking the champagne now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Mar 13 - 02:40 AM

More obfuscation, Stim.
There's a huge difference between 75 and 33,000 that can't be explained away by 'some feeling' (by whom?) that there's an element of under-reporting (which is debateable).
All i can say is that i dont have a gun, nor feel the need to own one for any reason whatsoever, whether it be to protect myself from 'The Bad Guys' or 'Mad-Dog Killers' or just to make my prick twitch, and I can go to bed knowing that I wont be confronted by an armed 'home invader', or walk our streets in peace and without the fear that some small-dick is going to pull a gun on me. That's how it is here.
As long as you and your ilk are in denial and steadfastly refuse to acknowledge that other nations have got it right and the US has got it wrong, you're fucked.
Enjoy your ride to Hell. Maybe you're already there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 09:58 PM

Americans have been shooting each other for a long, long, time, Backwoodsman, they're not going to stop on based the British example. If there even is a British example--there is some feeling that murders there are under-reported because you don't have a comprehensive, centralized reporting system. I wouldn't know if that was accurate or not, but there is an old adage that runs, "If you're going to count them, first you've got to find them."


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 04:31 PM

Yes, violence at sporting events appals me too, Bill, and it was by attending a baseball game in Houston and feeling the friendly atmosphere there that I came to realise how horrible a "certain section" of our crowds can be. But the government, the police, the game's controlling body, and the clubs themselves have taken, and are continuing to take, action to reduce the incidence of violent outbreaks and, in the UK at least, things are far better now than they were some years ago.

I'm not anti-American, I admire much about your country, your people, your way of life, and I've enjoyed immensely the five spells I've spent there on business. But I believe the wilful denial of common sense, the refusal to accept that, on the gun question, Americans can be wrong, and the false-reasoning and obfuscation of the lead-heads demeans an otherwise great nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 03:01 PM

Yes, rational America is about a frustrated as one can be to read the polls where 90% of Americans are for strict back-ground checks at the very least, 70% for assault weapon bans, 60% for bans on high capacity clips yet...

...out supposed representative Congress ain't gonna do squat!!!

Yep, that is maddening...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 02:37 PM

Yep... I have to agree with most of your frustrations at seeing the idiocy displayed by the "testosterone-fuelled crap." (I have used similar phrases myself).
I often wonder what would happen if some nut got in and shot up Congress...or heaven forbid, the NRA headquarters! Sadly, I'd bet it would just be CALLED a 'nut job' and lead to more security... for Congress & the NRA, not for me.

Don't feel too smug, however... testosterone is not confined to the USA. I am appalled at the violence displayed among fans at or near some football matches in the UK and Europe and by your own idiots. IF history had been different, those guys would have coveted guns over there...(who knows...maybe they do). Over here, we do have 'more' legitimate uses for guns in certain areas and by certain people....it's just that, so far, the testosterone-fuelled fools have gotten a free ride by claiming the same rights as legitimate hunters and farmers who need 'some' guns for predator control, etc.

What is encouraging is that there are many in the news media who are not letting the issue die this time. Every day, the regular news is interspersed with various reports and stories highlighting the problem. It is making 'some' headway among politicians who see the handwriting on the wall bullet holes in their constituents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 02:09 PM

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm so BLOODY frustrated that, every time we Brits demonstrate, from our ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, to Americans that guns are not necessary for a peaceful, fear-free life, we face the same old bullshit excuses and denials from the lead-heads, small-dicks and over-the-hill ex-servicemen.

It's appalling that those idiots care more about their dick-enhancers than they do about your nation's kids.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 01:04 PM

Yes Bill, I know YOU understand it, I wasn't thinking of you when I posted, but I get sick and tired of seeing Americans on TV, weeping and wailing every time a bunch of kids are shot, emoting at vigils, etc., then, when some UK-er gives them the answer, they can't or won't face it and they come out with dumbfuck drivel like "I don't see any lessons there. I have been reading that violent crime is increasing on your islands, and have also read about a person called Gary George who murdered and tortured one Andrew Nall, as another of your citizens, Christine Holleran, stood by. One is inclined to think that you are on the same path, though perhaps you don't realize it." Complete hogwash. And quoting one single incident in order to justify the argument is.....ludicrous.

The UK's shooting rate has been steady at between 50 (fifty!) and 100 (one hundred!) for the past twenty-odd years, and a large percentage of those are gang-on-gang shootings related to drug turf-wars (and those arseholes are welcome to blow each other to hell AFAIC). Criminals such as burglars (home-invaders, to use your quaint expression) don't carry guns here because, if they did and get caught, the jail-time they would get is very much heavier - even though they haven't actually shot anyone, just being armed is regarded as extremely serious, and only slightly less serious than actual murder.

And I get sick to the back teeth of hearing about "the bad guys", and the "mad-dog killers" that people keep drivelling on about needing to protect themselves from. It's testosterone-fuelled crap. Bad guys and mad-dog killers are only those things because they have easy access to guns! Take the fucking guns away and they're just Wimpy Joes with no more power to do harm than anyone else who doesn't have a gun. I've travelled all over England and Scotland, to cities, rural areas and wild country - I've never seen a gun (except in the hands of farmers, the Armed Forces or Police Officers) and I've never, ever had any reason to fear that I've been in danger from someone with a gun. I wish I could say that's the case when I've travelled in the USA, but it's far from it.

I wish the lead-heads would wake up over there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 10:51 AM

*sigh* Backwoodsman.... they DO understand it. Some simply don't care. But the largest group is those who rationalize keeping their guns by asserting that "we have all the laws we need to find & punish abusers of the right to have guns, but those laws are just not being enforced!" They assert then that: "Because there ARE so many bad guys with guns now, us good guys need guns to protect our families!"

Those patently stupid arguments are made at the highest levels of the NRA and by their tame members of congress! Many of us KNOW they are stupid, but the path to reverse the situation is almost non-existant.... as if one takes a rocky path along a mountain ledge and sees it crumbling away behind them.

*I* don't know why, after all the explanations I and others have posted about the history of the US and the political, cultural & sociological development in the last 300 years, that many in the UK continue to ask us why we don't just 'write new laws' or 'vote for sane politicans'. Many of us TRY to do just that. We are getting close to one little step to ease one area of the problem....universal background checks for anyone seeking to acquire a gun.
**Maybe** one day we'll get a Congress and courts who will pass even stronger laws....and then you know what? We'll have millions of VERY angry gun nuts who have been stockpiling weapons to contend with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Mar 13 - 09:09 AM

The general public in the UK are not permitted to own firearms.
Therefore, virtually no-one has a gun.
People who don't have guns can't shoot people.
Therefore, the UK shootings rate is tiny in comparison with the US.
QED.

it's so fucking simple, a child of five can understand it.
So why can't adult Americans (who were smart enough to get men to the moon) understand it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 25 Mar 13 - 11:26 PM

Our murder rate and shooting rate are at all time lows as well, and they seem to be that way in much of the world. This has been mentioned numerous times in this thread. In case it is not clear, I am not in favor of any murders or killings of any sort.


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