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BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

voyager 18 Dec 12 - 05:17 PM
Ron Davies 18 Dec 12 - 05:02 PM
GUEST,999 18 Dec 12 - 05:02 PM
John MacKenzie 18 Dec 12 - 05:00 PM
Bill D 18 Dec 12 - 04:42 PM
gnu 18 Dec 12 - 04:41 PM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 04:14 PM
pdq 18 Dec 12 - 04:07 PM
olddude 18 Dec 12 - 04:01 PM
kendall 18 Dec 12 - 04:01 PM
Megan L 18 Dec 12 - 04:01 PM
Henry Krinkle 18 Dec 12 - 03:57 PM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 03:54 PM
Ron Davies 18 Dec 12 - 03:50 PM
Bill D 18 Dec 12 - 03:12 PM
Henry Krinkle 18 Dec 12 - 03:08 PM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 03:07 PM
GUEST,999 18 Dec 12 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,999 18 Dec 12 - 02:59 PM
olddude 18 Dec 12 - 02:58 PM
pdq 18 Dec 12 - 02:51 PM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 02:46 PM
Henry Krinkle 18 Dec 12 - 02:32 PM
Stringsinger 18 Dec 12 - 02:10 PM
pdq 18 Dec 12 - 02:05 PM
olddude 18 Dec 12 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,999 18 Dec 12 - 01:47 PM
bobad 18 Dec 12 - 01:45 PM
Henry Krinkle 18 Dec 12 - 01:40 PM
MGM·Lion 18 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM
Stringsinger 18 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM
bobad 18 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM
beardedbruce 18 Dec 12 - 01:21 PM
beardedbruce 18 Dec 12 - 01:17 PM
beardedbruce 18 Dec 12 - 01:12 PM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 01:10 PM
GUEST,mg 18 Dec 12 - 01:08 PM
kendall 18 Dec 12 - 12:34 PM
beardedbruce 18 Dec 12 - 11:52 AM
Stu 18 Dec 12 - 11:41 AM
Bobert 18 Dec 12 - 10:53 AM
olddude 18 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM
pdq 18 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM
kendall 18 Dec 12 - 10:38 AM
GUEST,gillymor 18 Dec 12 - 10:38 AM
GUEST 18 Dec 12 - 10:36 AM
catspaw49 18 Dec 12 - 10:35 AM
kendall 18 Dec 12 - 10:30 AM
Charmion 18 Dec 12 - 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: voyager
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 05:17 PM

A few comments/observations on this latest episode of senseless violence, innocent murder, gun control opinions, etc....

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members"
   Mahatman Gandhi

Violence is as American as Cherry Pie
   H. Rap Brown/Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin

A Guide to Mass Shootings in America - Mother Jones

First we will cry and then we will act.

voyager


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 05:02 PM

"keys to the car"    We are to imply from this that Mr. Krinkle thinks gun owners, by keeping all their guns, could have deterred George W. Bush from idiocy, it seems.

And just how do you envision doing this, Mr. Krinkle?

Were you and the rest of the "well-regulated militia" going to kidnap Mr. Bush?

It seems you've been reading too much Robert Ludlum.

Why don't you try reading some history, so you might just possibly have somewhat of a chance of making sense, for a change? And start with some books about the US, 1783 to 1800.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 05:02 PM

"Or a jug of bleach and a jug of ammonia to make nerve gas."

That doesn't produce a nerve agent I don't think, Henry. Lung irritant, and it can cause a person to die from asphyxiation. Of course, my memory ain't what it used to be--and likely never was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 05:00 PM

Most people over estimate their own abilities. while at the same time under estimating the abilities of others.
I wonder how many people's last words were, "I can take him anytime"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:42 PM

Because, Dan, many feel certain arguments and claims are either not factually correct or are logically flawed. PDQ, for example, continues to ignore the fact that I and others HAVE agreed that some ownership of guns is BOTH allowed AND defensible. And your own reasoning about sports cars is 'correct', but irrelevant. Sports cars have other purposes than going very fast.... and their uses on highways is much more watched and regulated than guns are. One can have their license to drive revoked for a few speeding tickets.... and 'usually', speeding does not kill anyone, whereas firing a weapon outside a legal range is often/usually done with the purpose of injuring others!

OF COURSE weapons at home can and should be 'secured', but you KNOW how often they aren't! Those who insist they should be allowed firearms for 'self-defense in the home usually feel that a gun is of little use if they have to unlock a case or closet and load it before 'defending' their home.
There is not enough space on the newspaper's front page for the weekly stories of kids who knew where Dad...(or, sadly, Mom) keeps their guns! A few years ago, my ex-neighbor across the street bragged to me that he had a gun 'available' in every room of the house. He had two girls living at home at that time...under 12.

I will repeat this as long as others keep claiming that 'safety and enforcement' are all that are required.
"As long as a wide range of firearms are allowed to be kept in the home by average citizens, there will continue to be tragedies following burglaries and kids getting a hold of them!"
You simply cannot base the rules and logic on what YOUR abilities and practices tells you are reasonable. YOU will take care....too many others will not!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:41 PM

Back briefly on techical points. Re don : "forensic checks on a slug" (or csasing). Easy to modify the footprint(s) before and after a crime. Casing are a little harder and require more than simple hand tools. Don't ask - I ain't tellin.

Second point. Yes, semi-autos are easily modified to fire on full auto, as stated many times herein. But, if there is no law restricting mags ("clips" do not include all mags) to five rounds, outlawing gas powered repeaters is useless. I can (could when I did) fire a repeater lever action and pump action AND a bolt action if it's sloppy like a Mauser (got one and it's FAST!)accurately at 3 second intervals, at distance and on fast moving four legged animals. This discussion is not about distance and not about fast moving four legged animals which run MUCH differently than two legged animals. I can (could) knock down what I was shooting at every three seconds without a semi which STILL takes three seconds on accounta that is what takes to aim! Mabey some can do it in less time but that ain't yer average shotter.

Sorry if that is kinda graphic under the "circumstances" but I find compelled to explain the details to ensure people who advocate gun laws understand these technical points because, as I HOPE I have explained, these technical points make a BIG difference when enacting GOOD gun laws. Common sense, informed decisions HAVE to be part of it.

BTW, 9, one of the largest bears ever taken was taken with a 22. But it's easy to be accurate if you can touch it with the barrel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:14 PM

Who is picking on them, Ol'ster... We are disagreeing with their assertion that gun control = banning all guns...

And 400...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:07 PM

Thanks, Dan.

I am simply asking people to acknowledge the right to own a guns as a prerequisite to their discussing the "reasonable restrictions."


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:01 PM

Why is everyone picking on Bearded Bruce, Henry, Kendall , PDQ .. they have strong opposite opinions like everyone else here has strong opinions. We all agree the gun loopholes need plugged. Enforce the 27,000 laws we have. Do what is right to keep the unstable and criminal from getting a hold of them.

I know guys that have custom sports cars, go over 200 miles an hour on the race track. Don't mean they are going go 200 miles an hour on the highway. It is all about stability and rational people vs unstable people. If someone owns a weapon and likes to shoot, ok but secure the weapon so you kid can't take it and do this terrible stuff. If you own something that is dangerous, a firearm, a car that can rocket 200 miles an hour .. secure the keys .. likewise the weapon. Plug the loopholes. Make sure the people purchasing are background checked even with private purchases, get a federal carry law, get rid of the gun show law. We all be a hell of a lot safer


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:01 PM

When I was on the job I got to fire a Thompson sub machine gun. I was not impressed.
Back when I was a hunter, I used to hunt with a .45 caliber flintlock. Your first shot is your best. After that you are just throwing lead at a moving target.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Megan L
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 04:01 PM

Given the average age on mudcat I put this thread down to senile dementia


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:57 PM

When you give people like George Bush the keys to the car, we have plenty to fear.
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:54 PM

They won't talk about that, Ron... It doesn't fit their narrative...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:50 PM

"Bill of Rights simply enshrined..." right to own guns.

Wrong. It did a lot more than that.

For the reasons I recently stated, it made it plain the right to bear arms was put there for a reason---to defend the US through a "well-regulated" citizen army and thereby avoid the necessity of a standing army, since at the time many feared a standing army.

Now just why are gun owners still afraid of our own army, navy or air force?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:12 PM

When the average gun-grabber says
"the 2nd Amendment doesn't say you have the right to own guns",
   they really saying "you have no right to own guns".


Both wrong...you persist in arguing points no one has claimed (at least no one here)

A speculation about the 'real' mind-set of someone who never even said what you claim is the wildest form of "straw man" fallacy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:08 PM

Or a jug of bleach and a jug of ammonia to make nerve gas.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:07 PM

As per usual, pdq jimps all over the NRA BS talking point that those of us favoring common sense gun controls want to take everyone's guns away...

That is beyond being a silly statement... Its also an outright lie...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 03:01 PM

Or to live up to the plural "bear arms" part, a single-shot .22 short rifle and a rock. There ya go.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:59 PM

"Nothing left to talk about."

There is much left to talk about. This is not about the second amendment. It is about auto and semi-auto weapons, both pistol and rifle. The requirement of the second amendment can be met by restricting everyone to a single-shot .22, short rifle.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:58 PM

Anyone that can qualify to own a class III Federal firearms license to shoot a fully auto weapon I have no issue with. They are very well checked out and stable collectors. Not a threat. I own many semi auto handguns and rifles. Other than my semi auto shotgun, they are not very good for hunting. Target shooting yes.   The AR and AK biggest problem is that in gun shows, unstable folks and criminals can get them with no check. Add a 100 round drum magazine and it gets sketchy for sure. So fix the loophole.

I have had lots of fun firing fully auto weapons ... and they belonged to the sheriff's office. I know lots of people who like to shoot and don't hurt anyone


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:51 PM

When the average gun-grabber says

                   "the 2nd Amendment doesn't say you have the right to own guns",

they really saying

                   "you have no right to own guns".

If they start talking about how many rounds a clip should be allowed to hold or how long a waiting period should be, they are talking crap.

They have already said you have no right to that gun at all.

Nothing left to talk about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:46 PM

Yes, raising more responsible and less whacked-out adults-to-be is a noble objective... Until we do, let's just keep them from WMDs, thank you...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:32 PM

This asshole enjoys shooting semi automatic weapons. Even more fun was shooting an M 60 machine gun.
Who made you the big decider for everybody?
=(:-( I)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:10 PM

The government needs to come down hard on gun sales owners and weapons manufacturers. They don't have the right to supply arms to anyone without the test of those having mental ability to handle one.

What asshole needs a privately owned semi-automatic weapon in the U.S.?

In fact most people don't need hand guns and are so ignorant because they think they know how to use one in a crisis where they are being threatened by hardened criminals who much more adept at the use of them.

Suicide rates are commensurate with the availability of guns. Taking them away would decrease the suicide rate by making that option less easy.

All this macho gun talk about "rights" is bullshit. As they are made available by a bloodthirsty Congress, there will be more mass killings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:05 PM

MtheGM...

If I substitute 'abused' or 'disregarded' or 'restrained' for 'enfringed' in the sentence, I see no change in meaning.

The right to own a gun was never questioned.

The first Dutch, English, French and Spanish who came to the New World walked off the boats carrying guns.

The Bill of Rights simply enshrined the right. Restricting it would be an enfringement. That's my take.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 02:04 PM

I also think teaching your kids to love others, respect others and to work hard would go a long way also


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:47 PM

Having read this entire thread, I would make a suggestion. As far as the reference to hunting rifles go, most people do well with bolt action guns. I cannot see a situation in which any hunter would require more than a few rounds, and certainly a five-round clip would suffice for anything in North America. However, restricting hunters to a single gun isn't realistic. What are loosely called varmints can be killed with small caliber bullets like .22s. Fox and coyote require a .222 or .223. Big animals like bear need something on the order of a .308 while thick bush is easier to work in with a shorter rifle like a 30-30 (also good for most deer) which while not good for large bear can certainly scare them away. Canada has many people who hunt. Some do for pleasure, something I have never understood because taking any life shouldn't be fun. I also have never understood why civilians require semi-automatics or automatics. If you're too lazy to keep your five-round clip topped up you're probably too lazy to go get your own meat. In the times I have killed animals for food, either for my own family or the families of others, I have never felt 'good' about doing so. It was a necessity at the time. These days I have no rifles. I don't hunt anymore, although if I needed to I'd still be adept using snare wire or traps. Meat is meat.

I have no love of guns or rifles. Rifles are simply tools to me. That's it, that's all. As for the argument that big brother is going to confiscate your weapons, maybe yes, maybe no, but most people would be too chickenshit to fight, anyway. I fail to see what good an automatic would be against drones, body armour or armoured vehicles. So that is, imo, a bullshit argument.

I wish the USA good luck ridding the country of assault rifles and as Dan has said, getting control over who can have handguns.

Again, I'd suggest law wherein the use of a gun in the commission of a crime is a mandatory 20 year jail term, no parole, and death resulting to innocent people in the commission of a crime be a mandatory life sentence, no parole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: bobad
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:45 PM

Sandy Hook Shooting Prompts 'Unprecedented' Run on Guns, Assault Rifles Across the Country
Neetzan Zimmerman        

Gun store owners across the country are reporting record sales in the aftermath of last week's massacre at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

One local proprietor told Huffington Post customers were particularly interested in combat-style assault rifles like the one used by shooter Adam Lanza to commit mass murder.

Though it's not unusual to see a spike in the sale of weapons after such incidents, at least one shop owner said the volume of prospective customers this time around was "unprecedented."

"We already have tons of customers because of Christmas, hunting season is peaking right now, and not to mention, the election," said Larry Hyatt, owner of the largest independently owned gun store in America. "But this tragedy is pushing sales through the roof. It's like putting gasoline on a fire."

Hyatt Gun Shop is notable for being would-be Obama assassin Jerry Blanchard's gun shop of choice.

Meanwhile, at least one gun store owner is extending a special discount to teachers who are interested in applying for a conceal-carry permit in Texas.

"As we do with veterans, I would offer them a discount," said Crocket Keller, owner of Keller's Riverside Gun Store near Austin. "Our normal rate is $110.00, so I would give them a rate of $90.00. If they are teachers, we would be more than happy to do that."

Keller previously made headlines after refusing to allow non-Christian Arabs, Muslims, liberals, and anyone who voted for Obama into his conceal-carry class.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:40 PM

Yep. Improvised weapons.
Raise your children to be human beings.
Combat mental illness.
Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun.
The 9-11 terrorists could have been stopped with a gun.
We need more responsible folks like olddude carrying guns.
=(:-( o)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM

'For MtheGM and others who want to understand the odd phrasing in the 2nd Amendment:

                an introductory phrase was common at that time'
,..,.,
Thank you for this link, pdq. But, reading the document, I found that the words in general use, to define what the right under consideration must not be, would be 'abused' or 'disregarded' or 'restrained'. This 2nd amendment seems to be the only one to use 'infringed' in this way. Which leaves me still wondering about its precise semantic connotation here, where its employment appears to be unique.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:39 PM

No one here wants to ban all guns, bb... That is just ya'll's default position whenever anyone brings up one single idea to make gun ownership safer and more responsible...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM

In other countries more civilized than ours, gun ownership is not a right but a privilege or entitlement if you like that is met by the gun owner declaring a legitimate reason to own a gun. Only in the U.S. does the government declare that gun ownership is a right. This is a gross distortion of the Second Amendment and don't tell me that you gun owners who have access or own an automatic weapon are a "well-regulated militia", or that you need that gun for any reason at all.

You gun owners should have to prove that you deserve to own a gun, are mentally fit, have the ability to know how it works, be licensed, and not to be able to conceal it for any reason, otherwise you have no RIGHT to that gun or weapon. How does anyone know that you wouldn't go nuts and use it to kill children? Just your word for it?

And those who use the words "lock and load" should be investigated for their attitude.

It's time we kicked the NRA in the butt, put Wayne LaPierre on trial and stop defending Charlton Heston as if he were a benign old man.

What we do have a right to, in this country is a decent education, health care,
and welfare when it's needed.


Gun owners should not have rights to own them


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: bobad
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:37 PM

In 1996, in response to a massacre in Tasmania that killed 35 people, Australia banned automatic and semiautomatic guns including .22 rimfires, semi-automatic shotguns and pump-action shotguns. They also instituted a buyback program for the newly illegal weapons which saw over 600,000 turned in. In the decade after the law was introduced the firearm homicide rate fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:21 PM

". How many folks are going into a crowded school of movie theater with a single shot or even 9 mm with an 8 round clip thinking they are going to take out the entire joint???"


NONE- They will find someone who LEGALLY has guns and use the single shot zip gun on them, and take their weapon, even if it is a police officer.

THEN they will go to the theatre and shoot into the crowd- Police carry weapons that hold more than enough ammunition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:17 PM

Bobert,

"What, just because the AR-15 is semi-automatic makes them some kinda single shot 22??? Plus, how many folks have bought that little $5 booklet at the gun shows that tell you exactly how to make your AR-15 fully automatic???"

No, I think that people who want to ban ALL guns should be honest and NOT say ASSAULT RIFLE when they mean "Anything that looks like it might be dangerous"

And the USE of that $5 book is a felony, and ALREADY OUTLAWED- HOW MUCH GOOD HAS THAT DONE??? (yelling because this is not the first time I have stated this.) IF IT IS ILLEGAL, why would passing MORE laws make it work any better? How about we enforce the laws we have now, which make felons ( including pot smokers) NOT OWN GUNS!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:12 PM

For those who think that gun ownership can be eliminated:


"Improvised firearms are not solely the province of the criminal element, however; they are also used by insurgents. During the Japanese occupation of the Philippines during World War II, the paliuntod, a type of improvised shotgun, was commonly used by guerrillas and the joint American and Filipino soldiers who remained behind after Douglas MacArthur's withdrawal. Made of two pieces of pipe that fit snugly together, the paliuntod was a simple, single shot open bolt design. The shell was placed in the breech of the barrel, which was then fitted into the larger diameter receiver. The receiver was capped at the breach end, and had a fixed firing pin placed to strike the primer of the shell. When the barrel was pulled sharply to the rear, the firing pin would strike the primer and fire the gun.[5][6] These improvised firearms are still in use by both criminals and rebels in the Philippines.[18][19]"

The US manufactured this type of shotgun and dropped them in Europe during WW II. Two pipes, one nail, one piece of wood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:10 PM

You are in la-la land, bb... What, just because the AR-15 is semi-automatic makes them some kinda single shot 22??? Plus, how many folks have bought that little $5 booklet at the gun shows that tell you exactly how to make your AR-15 fully automatic???

Yes, Captn... A weapon will be found... How many folks are going into a crowded school of movie theater with a single shot or even 9 mm with an 8 round clip thinking they are going to take out the entire joint???

And no, Sugarfoot Jack... If I want to I can back a U-Haul rental truck into the parking lot at the Richmond State Fair where they conduct these gun shows, fill it up with AR-15s and AK-47s, thousands of rounds of ammunition, a case of "How to make your A%-15 or AK-47 Fully Automatic" drive off with everything and guess what??? Nothing gets reported to anyone...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 01:08 PM

A gun was drawn on the murderer in the Clackamas shopping mall shooting recently. He did not fire for fear of shooting an innocent bystander. But when the gun was noticed, the murderer shot himself. I hzve read, perhaps here, that that is what happens..when they see the law enforcement, they shoot themselves. So perhaps even unloaded guns would have some effect.

Count on it...innocent people will be shot by people shooting the killer. It will happen. But it might save 10 lives and cost 1. And I don't think all those other scenarios are likely..50 people being shot because everyone is shooting everyone else. It usually would be clear who the murderer was.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 12:34 PM

Bobert, I'll let you know when that happens.As long as the intent is there, a weaPON WILL BE FOUND.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:52 AM

Bobert,

since "the general public to have more assault rifles in their hands " and they are PROHIBITED NOW, what would additional laws do?


An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.
Examples of assault rifles include the StG 44, AK-47,[2] M16 rifle, QBZ-95, INSAS, Heckler & Koch G36, and Enfield SA80.



Section 922 Section D Bowleg 1-9
(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person - (1) is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year (2) is a fugitive from justice; (3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); (4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution; (5) who, being an alien - (A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or (B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26))); (6) who (!2) has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; (7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship; (8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that - (A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and (B)(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or (ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or (9) has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stu
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 11:41 AM

"Now the full tracking of a firearm to the last owner is flawed because of private sales do not require paperwork"

Aren't the sellers required to phone the FBI and other agencies to ensure the buyer doesn't have a criminal record and is fit to buy the gun? This is how they know how many guns are sold (legally) in the US. This was reported in a UK broadsheet but I can't find the reference for love nor money; apparently there have been millions of guns sold in 2012 already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:53 AM

Bottom line here is that it looks as if we are going to get some sane gun control policies, like it or not...

Bottom line, part 2... There is no reason for the general public to have more assault rifles in their hands today than are in the hands of our current military...

Bottom line, part 3... For all you who are sticking with yer "Gun's don't kill people, people kill people" mantra, what are you going to say after sane gun controls take effect and murders and go down???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM

Every weapon sold by every gun manufactured is test fired and the weapons case is stored in a database for law enforcement. That is already done. Now the full tracking of a firearm to the last owner is flawed because of private sales do not require paperwork


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:48 AM

"Shall we all agree that we should have laws prohibiting private ownership ( except in very controlled cases ) of AUTOMATIC weapons? "


Automatic weapons are banned and have been since 1934, not 1968.



For MtheGM and others who want to understand the odd phrasing in the 2nd Amendment:

                                                                                     an introductory phrase was common at that time


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:38 AM

John P, it was not you who called me a moron, it was some one called the leveller.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:38 AM

that was me


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:36 AM

What we need, Bearded Bruce, is the will and funding to actually enforce and update the federal gun laws with a non-political agency whose mission remains constant through administration changes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:35 AM

Well that ad might well be the last for Bushmaster. Here are a few unexpected developments! Read on.


In an incredible response to American anger over the Sandy Hook massacre, the owner of the nation's largest gun and ammunition manufacturer — which includes notable brands like Remington and Bushmaster — is putting the company up for sale because of the Sandy Hook shooting that took the lives of 20 children and six adults. Bushmaster has quickly become known as the infamous brand of rifle used in the Sandy Hook shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.

Cerberus Capital Management, which created Freedom Group, now the parent company of Bushmaster, Remington, and Marlin, says it's just not worth the attention and hassle after Sandy Hook.

"It is apparent that the Sandy Hook tragedy was a watershed event that has raised the national debate on gun control to an unprecedented level," Cerberus states via a press release:



The debate essentially focuses on the balance between public safety and the scope of the Constitutional rights under the Second Amendment. As a Firm, we are investors, not statesmen or policy makers. Our role is to make investments on behalf of our clients who are comprised of the pension plans of firemen, teachers, policemen and other municipal workers and unions, endowments, and other institutions and individuals. It is not our role to take positions, or attempt to shape or influence the gun control policy debate. That is the job of our federal and state legislators.

There are, however, actions that we as a firm can take. Accordingly, we have determined to immediately engage in a formal process to sell our investment in Freedom Group.



"According to Fortune's Dan Primack, Cerberus' sale of Freedom Group is 'not a financial decision,' as the holding company's value is 'artificially low,' and a buyer will be hard to find," Neetzan Zimmerman at Gawker notes:


However, it is worth noting that the California State Teachers' Retirement System, one of Cerberus' largest investors, said yesterday that it would review its indirect investment in Freedom Group in light of the Newtown tragedy.

Also yesterday, Walmart unexpectedly ceased online sales of the Bushmaster assault rifle used by shooter Adam Lanza, though its unclear how long the moratorium will last.

Dick's Sporting Goods, another major retailer of sporting rifles, said in a statement this morning that it would be suspending the sale of semiautomatic rifles in all stores nationwide for an indefinite period of time.




Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: kendall
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:30 AM

There is only one avenue to getting rid of guns. Congress. Those clowns can't even agree on what to fight about.

As Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is us." We send them to Washington to do our bidding, and we keep sending thje same type of person, so, we are at fault. We get the kind of government we deserve.

John P, sorry, I'm wrong again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Charmion
Date: 18 Dec 12 - 10:08 AM

Yowza, bobad. That thing you linked to: it's, um, amazing.

I imagine the thinking process that led to that advertisement -- both the copywriter's and the client's -- and my brain goes Tilt.


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