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BS: Shooting tragedies and guns

John P 27 Dec 12 - 10:30 AM
beardedbruce 27 Dec 12 - 10:01 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Dec 12 - 10:00 AM
beardedbruce 27 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM
Bobert 27 Dec 12 - 09:07 AM
GUEST,999 27 Dec 12 - 08:57 AM
beardedbruce 27 Dec 12 - 08:55 AM
beardedbruce 27 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM
Stu 27 Dec 12 - 08:31 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 27 Dec 12 - 05:33 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 27 Dec 12 - 05:27 AM
GUEST,Backwoodsman 27 Dec 12 - 03:52 AM
GUEST,Backwoodsman 27 Dec 12 - 03:15 AM
gnu 26 Dec 12 - 07:13 PM
Janie 26 Dec 12 - 06:59 PM
Bobert 26 Dec 12 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 06:50 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 06:45 PM
gnu 26 Dec 12 - 06:33 PM
pdq 26 Dec 12 - 06:10 PM
Greg F. 26 Dec 12 - 05:47 PM
Ebbie 26 Dec 12 - 05:30 PM
Bobert 26 Dec 12 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 05:07 PM
Bobert 26 Dec 12 - 05:03 PM
Bobert 26 Dec 12 - 04:57 PM
gnu 26 Dec 12 - 04:56 PM
gnu 26 Dec 12 - 04:46 PM
Bobert 26 Dec 12 - 04:42 PM
gnu 26 Dec 12 - 04:25 PM
Bobert 26 Dec 12 - 04:16 PM
number 6 26 Dec 12 - 04:02 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 03:46 PM
number 6 26 Dec 12 - 03:37 PM
number 6 26 Dec 12 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 03:24 PM
beardedbruce 26 Dec 12 - 02:52 PM
beardedbruce 26 Dec 12 - 02:44 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 02:41 PM
beardedbruce 26 Dec 12 - 02:22 PM
pdq 26 Dec 12 - 02:14 PM
beardedbruce 26 Dec 12 - 02:14 PM
beardedbruce 26 Dec 12 - 02:08 PM
Ebbie 26 Dec 12 - 01:47 PM
pdq 26 Dec 12 - 12:26 PM
beardedbruce 26 Dec 12 - 12:09 PM
GUEST,999 26 Dec 12 - 12:04 PM
Greg F. 26 Dec 12 - 12:00 PM
bobad 26 Dec 12 - 11:53 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: John P
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:30 AM

We don't have any laws to keep someone who is not already a felon from getting a gun. I'm a good deal less worried about a criminal with a gun than I am about a "normal" neighbor or person on the freeway who loses their temper and has a gun handy.

If, most of the time, it was a felony to buy a gun, people would have to become a felon before opening fire. We'd have have a chance to catch them before they kill. As it is now, we don't find out they're crazy or out of control until they open fire. Also, most people aren't willing to become felons and wouldn't buy a gun in the first place.

One of the laws we have in many states that is always enforced is the "shall issue" law about concealed weapons permits - anyone who isn't a felon MUST be given a permit if they ask for one. One law we should have is to have anyone who wants to carry a concealed handgun to prove they need it, they know how and when to use it, and that they aren't very close to the edge of being crazy or just losing control.

Until you can guarantee that people who are nearly crazy can't legally get their hands on guns, please stop saying that we have plenty of laws.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:01 AM

"

7. Create a 24 hour waiting period for the purchase of any gun..."

That would be a decrease in waiting time here in PG County, MD- and look at the crime rate here.


I think the solution is to enforce the laws we have ( ALL OF THEM) and then make new laws AFTER WE SEE WHAT WORKS.

As long as it is acceptable to violate laws that we do not like, such as the ones against pot and drugs, there will be people breaking the law and not caring about societal standards. Like the graffiti cleanup in NYC, ENFORCING THE LAWS ( or changing them WITHOPU violating them) would establish a climate of law abiding, and reduce gun violence (WHICH IS ILLEGAL)

So how about it, Bobert? Ready to turn in those pot growers and moonshiners?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 10:00 AM

Why am I so constantly being reminded, by so may Yooser entries on all these lost-count-of-how-many gun threads currently ongoing, of the yokel [= US hayseed] asked the way to somewhere; who stopped, and scratched his head, and thought for a minute, and scratched his head again; and then delivered himself of the helpful observation: "Well, you can't start from here."?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:33 AM

Bobert,

Like the mandatory sentences have "won the war on drugs"? How about execution of all pot smokers, since they willingly violate federal laws?

The PRESENT LAWS and penalties ARE NOT ENFORCED- When they are, see if that makes a difference BEFORE you pass new laws that the courts will not enforce.

I addressed your comments- YOU do not choose to address mine.

The definition in law of "ASSAULT RIFLE" you have already denied as being valid.

You must think that the performance of a weapon is caused by the appearance, since THAT is what the previous law went by.


And you still keep silent on the racist scum that support your viewpoint. THEY would liove for you to be sure their next lynching victim was not allowed to have a firearm.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 09:07 AM

So, bb... You really haven't addressed my proposals other than the usual "it won't work" pablum of the NRA...

BTW, I have defined "assault rifle" over and over but rather than accept what I, and millions of others define it as, step right by our sane and reasonable definition and go to existing law...

******************Existing laws are the problem**********************

Now back to your "it won't work" defeatism defense: If you put some real teeth in the laws they will work... Slaps on the wrists, I agree, won't work... Mandatory prison term will...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:57 AM

Nothing like a rational conversation about guns.


"The drivel being touted by some about standing up to a government they distrust should absolutely not be a qualifying 'need or reason', it's just big-mouth bluster, and complete, utter shite."

Backwoodsman, you are certainly entitled to that opinion, but you are failing to see that many people who want assault rifles--rifles that fire lots of projectiles really fast--do so because they do NOT trust their government/police. Whether they would even try to fight back against a takeover is another matter, but that is part of their rationale for wanting the weapons in the first place. Which came first, the gun or the need, is up for grabs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:55 AM

Bobert,

"I mean, there are a lot of very reasonable and sane adults who want to see the following laws enacted:

1. Ban military style assault rifles even though they are sold a semi-automatic..."

DEFINE "assault rifle" Since you do not accept the definition that the courts do. please define WHAT YOU MEAN- Black plastic stock and parkerized?

"2. Ban high capacity magazines (clips) that hold over 10 rounds.."

Since the killings in Conn were done with pistols ( the AR-15 was found IN THE CAR **AFTER** the shootings) I think making sure police never have more than 10 rounds might be good idea ( Glocks- 17 rounds)

.

"3. Close the gun-show loophole..."

OK, then the criminals will meet in the malls to exchange guns. FFL DEALERS have the same paperwork and registration requirements REGARDLESS of where they are selling.



"4. Require anyone who owns a pistol to register it and provide a "certificate of proficiency" to own it..."

How? If it is already impossible to keep FELONS from having guns illegally, how do you get them to register it? ONLY law abiding citizens are affected by this. You would, in effect, be arming the Klan and disarming the NAACP.

"5. Invest what is needed for background checks to work in a timely manner, which it currently doesn't do..."

THIS I AGREE WITH.

"6. Ban "open carry" of all handguns except for police... I don't want to go into a restaurant and have a dozen cowboy wnatabees come in with pistols strapped to their legs..."

Looking at the crime rate of places where open carry is legal, and the crime rate of placeswere carry is prohibited, I do not agree with you.



7. Create a 24 hour waiting period for the purchase of any gun...


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:43 AM

Don T

"Nothing to be done, according to Peedee and Bruce (ought to be a good cartoon series there)."



Bullshit!

Since you have shown that you cannot read simple English statements, a sane person would not waste time on you: There is no reason that anything you post could have any value.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Stu
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 08:31 AM

Don T has it right.

"Guns do not kill people"

They do if you point them at someone and pull the trigger. Guns make it easy for any fool to kill anyone. They make it easy to intimidate and murder and terrorise and maim and . . . ah well, it's been said so many times.

No guns = more difficult to kill people. Very difficult to massacre people without a weapon like a gun of any type.

Thinking about this whole business, the one thing that keeps coming back to my mind are the actions of Victoria Soto, the 27 year-old teacher who hid her class in the closet and faced the gunman as he came to kill those kids. She stood her ground with the sort of courage most of us pray we could muster in such a situation and she looked that murdering slimeball in the eye and with great presence of mind misdirected him, although she paid with her life, a price she both knew should would have to pay and was willing to pay to save those children. Her bravery and sacrifice gives me hope that out of this adversity comes a triumph of the human spirit, of compassion and intelligence and the understanding that we all live together, and need to look after each other.

Victoria Soto's selfless heroism shows that the greatest courage comes from people who don't have guns of any description; we see this in history time and time again.

Guns kill people. Gun support enables that to happen. End of. No more of this self-delusional "Guns don't kill people" bollocks. It's the lie that will condemn more innocents to a violent death they don't deserve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:33 AM

BTW.

The guns I'm referring to are the ones designed to kill people, especially handguns and semi autos.

Hunting rifles and vermin killers like .22s and shotguns are not included.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 05:27 AM

Well, that seems to be that folks!

Nothing to be done, according to Peedee and Bruce (ought to be a good cartoon series there).

So, load your weapons, lock all your doors and sit back and do NOTHING.

You can pass the time by making bets on whether your broken and prohibitively expensive medical system will weed out all the nutjobs before one of them slaughters your kids.

I don't give much in the way of odds there, since your medical insurers avoid long term cases like the plague, so make the most of the kiddies while you've got 'em.

You asked for solutions, we gave you the answer.

"GET RID OF THE FUCKING GUNS!"

Don't want to listen? Suit yourselves, but don't expect any sympathy at all the next time some gun happy arsehole massacres a whole school class

Our sympathy is reserved for the real victims, the children sacrificed to their parents love affair with guns.

I'm out of this, gravely disappointed in the nation which once had pioneer spirit.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:52 AM

And 'self-protection' against 'the bad guys' or 'mad-dog killers' isn't a a qualifying need or reason either, it indicates paranoia and should mean automatic disqualification of the applicant from gun ownership on the grounds of mental instability.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Dec 12 - 03:15 AM

I don't believe anyone here has suggested a total ban on guns, even the UK-ers. What most on this side of the pond would call for is for gun ownership to be restricted to those who can demonstrate a true need to own a gun - farmers, hunters, target-shooting club members etc., and no automatic, semi-automatic or military-type weapons to be owned by anyone at all. The drivel being touted by some about standing up to a government they distrust should absolutely not be a qualifying 'need or reason', it's just big-mouth bluster, and complete, utter shite.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 07:13 PM

Welll... I still don't quite get all that because a LOT of peeps on these threads have said "ban all guns" but... whatever.

Ebbie... "what do we do"... you get some GOOD gun laws that deal with ownership and registration BUT you have to do it different in the US that it was done in Canada because GUESS WHAT happened in Canada... we had a GREAT system... cost $2B+ and it's now being trashed because it WASN'T DONE RIGHT. Another Canuck MODEL for the world but we had so many idiot antigun nuts that pushed WAY too far that many Canucks said "I am a Canuck and I won't take that shit." Yanks are even more so. Soooo, ya gotta just "do" good guns laws with common sense.

And, yes, providing health care and feeding the poor and education and... all that pie in the sky stuff (pie? WTF? but THAT is another thread).

But, ya gotta get a grip on GOOD gun laws as a start. Canada has a great model IF someone with a brain in their head and a vote in Parliament had had the balls to say... hmmm... that part is REALLY stupid and I think we, the government, might be in the opposition soon if we ignore common sense and decency. So, now, anti-decency, Stephen Harper, is destroying all our $2B worth of good gun laws because SOME of those laws were BAD gun laws. It drives me NUTS!

Maybe that is why the Canucks that post in these threads seem so pissed off... well... at least ONE that I know of. He keeps saying the same things over and over but it seems nobody, on either side, is listening.

Guns do not kill people. People who won't listen to logic and common sense kill people. They kill people like my buddy and his wife that I posted about in a long ago gun thread(sss). One more time... good gun laws are good. Bad gun laws are bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Janie
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:59 PM

Glad to see that some folks have stopped talking "past" each other, and actually started having a discussion.

Finding common ground and building consensus around that common ground is a lot of work. Requires respect for the validity of different points of view and careful reflective listening on the part of all parties.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:54 PM

No matter... Like I said before, I was giving gn-ze the benefit of the doubt 'cause he's my buddy... It really doesn't matter... The point is that the folks here in Mudville who are in favor of sane gun laws aren't advocating such a radical position...

Yo, Eb... Yeah, there are a lot of things we could do to restore civility but that would be an entire different thread... Or several...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:50 PM

I for one do not want all guns banned because the minute that happens I will wonder what my government is about to do that I won't like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:45 PM

It was for Bobert.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:33 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From:GUEST,999 - PM
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:07 PM

Name ONE Canadian poster who has said to ban all guns!
**********************************************************

Was that for me, 9? Or who?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 06:10 PM

There goes the neighborhood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:47 PM

So Beardie, I suppose you want to do away with the laws against murder and rape as well, since its obvious they don't prevent murder.

And you didn't speak to the point that the current laws don't work because they're badly drafted and have too many loopholes and aren't uniform across the country. But then, I didn't expect you WOULD.

Not when you can resort to bloviation, BS, and changing the subject.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:30 PM

OK, back to the bottom line here.

If we in the US are such an aggressive people, how do we go about changing that? I should imagine changing a people's nature and expectations is a slow process. I don't think we have that much time.

Any suggestions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:16 PM

I don't know of any... I said "maybe"... I donno of any but since gn-ze said that folks are saying it I reckon I could give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe someone has said it... Like I said, "I donno"??? I have said that the only two people I can remember saying it were pdq and beardedbruce...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:07 PM

Name ONE Canadian poster who has said to ban all guns!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 05:03 PM

Yeah, I've signed a bunch of them petitions... I'm even trying to get anew one going that requires an IQ on the plus side of that of an animal cracker in order to post anything on the inter net... I thought you'd like that one, gn-ze...

As for the 24 hour waiting period to purchase a gun??? It's called a cool-down period... You'd be surprised how many people get pissed off, go the gun store, buy a gun and blow someone away all in one afternoon...

Heck, if the right wing thinks it's okay to have laws that require a pregnant woman to have such a period then why not pissed off people who want to kill their next door neighbor...

Actually, there isn't one radical idea in my list... All pretty much common sense...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:57 PM

The major American proponents here in the Mudpit for sane gun control laws have not advocated banning all guns...

Maybe a couple UKers of Canadians might have said that but none of my American allies on the subject...

Of course we do hear it from the righties (beardedbruce & pdq among others) but they are just saying it because they think it makes the folks on my side look to be unreasonable...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:56 PM

24 Hour waiting period? If a person owns guns and ammo legally and a permit to aquire and the transfer of ownership must take place trhu a registry the 24 hour thing need not apply.

GOOD gun laws. LOGICAL gun laws. I am blue in the face from shouting this.

Bobert... yer just givin the anti-gun/gun nuts ammo with some of these ideas.

Yo, Bobert... ya sign any a them there petitions yet?

BTW... ANY of youse sign any a them there petitions yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:46 PM

Bobert... "no one wants to ban all guns, gn-ze..."

Huh? I have read same on every gun thread. I ain't gonna look it up and quote it... THEMssss... for you. It would take TOOOO long.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:42 PM

For the one millionth time, no one wants to ban all guns, gn-ze... That's never been talking point or goal of the folks who want saner gun laws... That is NRA propaganda that they use to try to paint sane people as lunatics...

Personally, I'm sick of reading "ban all guns"... It's bullshit and we don't need to be repeating NRA propaganda...

I mean, there are a lot of very reasonable and sane adults who want to see the following laws enacted:

1. Ban military style assault rifles even though they are sold a semi-automatic...

2. Ban high capacity magazines (clips) that hold over 10 rounds...

3. Close the gun-show loophole...

4. Require anyone who owns a pistol to register it and provide a "certificate of proficiency" to own it...

5. Invest what is needed for background checks to work in a timely manner, which it currently doesn't do...

6. Ban "open carry" of all handguns except for police... I don't want to go into a restaurant and have a dozen cowboy wnatabees come in with pistols strapped to their legs...

7. Create a 24 hour waiting period for the purchase of any gun...

These are reasonable...

Oh yeah... Before the usual cast of characters step up and say that we just can't enforce those laws let me say this: defeatism is not a debating point...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: gnu
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:25 PM

I know I shouldn't but I just can't stop myself. Yo USA!!!

Once again. Guns don't kill. People do. Gun laws must address people problems and gun regulation problems with good gun laws.

sIx and 9 know about illegal guns in Canada. So do I. I know how thousands and thousands of illegal wepaons (machine pistols, technically) get into the hands of assholes in the USA. They come from Atlantic Canada. I ain't gonna post about how it is done except to say that NObody can stop it. You canNOT ban these guns unless you change your laws and address YOUR people problems.

Ban all guns? Yer barkin up the wrong tree and yer pissin on my tree. You ain't gettin anywhere with that shit, thank goodness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:16 PM

Bb is confused... He claims that assault rifles are already banned... Then what the heck is this AR15??? A friggin' bb gun??? No, maybe is a slingshot...

This is where we end up... An AR15 with a 100 round clip that can be legally purchased at any gun shop in the country, according to bb, is not an "assault rifle" because it is semi-automatic...

Let's put a bowl of reality on the table... A perfectly legal AR15 can kill 30 people in 20 seconds... If anyone doesn't consider that an assault rifle then they are delusional and just playing games here...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 04:02 PM

I agree with you 999 ... and I think that is a good example of 2 different cultures .... back to what I said about the the aggressive culture in the U.S. and the rather non-aggressive culture of Canada.

Here the drug dealers pack a piece (very low keyed about it) for defensive purposes, as opposed to offensive reasons.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:46 PM

Some fucking day I'll say something right. I do too, biLL. However, that's got jack shit to do with crap in the USA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:37 PM

" I doubt anyone here knows drug dealers who carry guns."

I do ... right here in Saint John

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: number 6
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:35 PM

I think it was Be_dubya who mentioned somewhere in this thread about Davie Crocket guns back in the 50's ... interesting, I had one, most of my friends had one ... we gloried in our play time as kids being Davey Crocket killing all the Mexicans, or as John Wayne killing all the Japs ... we watched Bugs Bunny cartoons, the 3 stooges ... many people today consider this a rather violent pass times for kids.

I'm Canadian ... but my contemporaries south of the border were indulging in the same activities as kids ... I'm far from violent, I abhor violence ... many of those American kids grew up to protest the Vietnam war, many dodged the draft.

What I'm trying to get across is ... I question the idea that today's movies, T.V. programs, heavy metal music, games or whatever influences the current gun rampage in the U.S. ... I may be wrong though ... but I do think (and I'll bring back this issue) that the American culture is one of aggressiveness ... it's a win at all cost type of nation, on the playing field, in the corporation, in it's military, in it's global affairs etc. ... that has some crazy effect on people ... as I said previously you have an aggressive culture and you throw weaponry into the mix .. well you can get the picture

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:31 PM

"I can go along with this- but are you sure that most here would? what happens when one of their friends is caught with illegal drugs, and a firearm, and gets that mandatory sentence?"

Right now we're just seeing if the turkey will fit in the oven. I doubt anyone here knows drug dealers who carry guns.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 03:24 PM

And all that with no mention of the Second Amendment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:52 PM

"BB, part of the problem is TV, video game and movie stuff that has glorified people with semi and automatic weapons."

AGREED. ANY parent allowing their children to play DOOM in any variant should be arrested and the kids taken away from them. I am not sure it should be legal for adults.

" I agree that there are mental health issues that need to be addressed, "

Yet the focus has been ONLY on making it harder to LEGALLY own guns.



"along with laws that are enforced whereby the use of any gun in the commission of a crime is a mandatory 20 year/no parole sentence. If such crime results in death, the sentence is life, no parole, period!"

I can go along with this- but are you sure that most here would? what happens when one of their friends is caught with illegal drugs, and a firearm, and gets that mandatory sentence?



ANd OBVIOUSLY anyone who ignores current laws, such as those against drugs, should AND IS NOT be allowed to own firearms. (see 1968 law prohibiting firearm possession by felons ( more than one year sentence)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:44 PM

Just noticed... Looking at the cities with the highest rate of gun violence I see that ALL have been controlled by Democrats for the last 30-40 years. Seems like and obvious point that if we just get rid of the Democrats, the rates of gun violence will drop. (SARCASM)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:41 PM

BB, part of the problem is TV, video game and movie stuff that has glorified people with semi and automatic weapons. I agree that there are mental health issues that need to be addressed, along with laws that are enforced whereby the use of any gun in the commission of a crime is a mandatory 20 year/no parole sentence. If such crime results in death, the sentence is life, no parole, period!

People who think banning semi autos or assault rifles is a quick fix best think again. It took about 50 years to get gun crazy; it'll take that long to undo it. Saying that laws don't work means you have some bad judges and maybe more than a few bad cops.

I am aware that people would be crazy to relinquish guns they own. But maybe it's time to stop making more.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:22 PM

sorry





It is simple to make a one- shot pistol or shotgun, or a pipe bomb, or explosive, or instrument string garrote to kill people. The problem is to TEACH PEOPLE NOT TO KILL EACH OTHER. Yet No one here will even address that, stating that the removal of guns ( even though not possible, as seen by the murder rates in Washington DC ( whens guns were forbidden), NYC ( strictest gun laws, and the place to go to get ANY weapon you want) Chicago ( note the number of gun crimes IN SPITE of some of the harshest gun laws)
) IS THE SOLUTION THAT WILL WORK.

Please note that 9-11 did not involve ANY guns at all. How many died then? Can we outlaw all knives? Broken glass? Flat pieces of metal sharpened on cement? Mixing household chemicals to produce WW 1 chemical weapons?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:14 PM

23,000 US schools have armed security personel now.

Columbine had them.

Columbine also took place while the "assault weapons" ban was still in place.

Nobody is proposing anything that has proven to work.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:14 PM

Ebbie,

Does that address your questions?

I DO NOT CLAIM to have an answer- but I can look at the obvious and know that the means that the Left has tried for many years has made the situation worse ( more gun violence and crimes, with more laws restricting gun ownership and less punishment and personnel responsibility.
Maybe we need to look at the causes, rather than pass "feel-good" laws that do not work and do NOT deal with mental health issues, alienation, ignorance , and lack of "buy-in" to society and civilization.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 02:08 PM

"What are your ideas on this? If you truly think that taking semi-automatic and assault off the legal market will not make a difference, what do you suggest? "

1. ASSAULT RIFLES HAVER BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE 1934. Has THAT made a difference?

However, take a look at the crime rate in Switzerland. Not bad for a country with FULLY AUTOMATIC military weapons in nearly every home.



2. I can fire all the rounds from my 11 shot (target) revolver on target faster than I can fire a 1911 Colt semi-automatic (7 rounds) downrange ( and only the first shot would hit the target!)

As for taking them off the market, do you know how many are out there? If EVERY legal gun was confiscated, and ONLY police had them, the criminals would be able to get all the guns they would want- by killing police if no other way.

It is simple to make a one- shot pistol or shotgun, or a pipe bomb, or explosive, or instrument string garrote to kill people. The problem is to TEACH PEOPLE NOT TO KILL EACH OTHER. Yet No one here will even address that, stating that the removal of guns ( even though not possible, as seen by the murder rates in Washington DC ( whens guns were forbidden), NYC ( strictest gun laws, and the place to go to get ANY weapon you want) Chicago ( note the number of gun crimes IN SPITE of some of the harshest gun laws)

The places with the strictest gun laws have the MOST gun violence crimes, and the LEAST harsh punishments. Any thoughts about ENFORCING the laws WE HAVE NOW, and making people responsible for their own actions?

It DOES work to disarm law abiding citizens, though. IF that is the intent, so be it- but think back to the South in the 1930s to 1960s- DO YOU WANT TO DISARM everyone NOT IN AUTHORITY?

Are you willing to give up other Constitutional rights as well, when SOMEONE decides you would be safer without them? How about when a conservative is in power, and uses these SAME arguments ( "Even one life saved is worth giving up rights") to outlaw abortion ( where EVERY fetus dies)? What right has the woman to kill that life???




"Do you think LaPierre's suggestion of arming teachers and other authority figures is a good one? Is that the picture you have of education?"

It is a better idea than passing a law that does not work. NOT what I want to see in education: I would rather see responsible gun training in later grades, to promote gun safety, and can see a reason for SOME armed presence in schools.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 01:47 PM

This is a serious questions for BeardedBruce and pdq and all others who seem at a loss for where to start:

What are your ideas on this? If you truly think that taking semi-automatic and assault off the legal market will not make a difference, what do you suggest?

Do you think LaPierre's suggestion of arming teachers and other authority figures is a good one? Is that the picture you have of education?

Please address this.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: pdq
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 12:26 PM

If people want to discuss the facts, they should read the 1968 gun control act first:

                                                                                          National Firearms Act (1968)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 12:09 PM

What, Greggie, like the federal law making it a crime for felons to possess firearms (1968, I think), or the extreme Federal limitations on automatic weapons since 1934 ?

Since these have been asked for here, it is obvious that the laws do NOT produce the effects that people want.

Perhaps we need to arrest anyone who calls black Democats "dumb ni**ers" since they have demonstrated, by their hate speech, a tendency toward hate crimes that are already on the books.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 12:04 PM

"So, how much of Obama's trillion dollar "stimulus bill" was spent in helping support existing gun laws? Immigration laws? Gang violence abatement laws?"

It was $173.48, but that ain't the topic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 12:00 PM

No, the point is, Beardie, that they're crap laws currently and they're not uniform across the country.

What we need is realistic, uniform legislation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shooting tragedies and guns
From: bobad
Date: 26 Dec 12 - 11:53 AM

"The NRA is the enabler of death — paranoid, delusional and as venomous as a scorpion. With the weak-kneed acquiescence of our politicians, the National Rifle Association has turned the Second Amendment of the Constitution into a cruel and deadly hoax."

Bill Moyers


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