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BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza

Stringsinger 24 Oct 12 - 02:41 PM
Stringsinger 24 Oct 12 - 07:06 PM
GUEST,999 24 Oct 12 - 07:44 PM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 24 Oct 12 - 08:00 PM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 03:02 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 03:14 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 03:38 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 25 Oct 12 - 05:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 05:24 AM
Don(Wyziwyg)T 25 Oct 12 - 05:35 AM
GUEST,Lighter 25 Oct 12 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,Lighter 25 Oct 12 - 10:55 AM
bobad 25 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM
Jim Carroll 25 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM
Stringsinger 25 Oct 12 - 12:04 PM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 01:54 PM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,Lighter 25 Oct 12 - 02:42 PM
Jim Carroll 25 Oct 12 - 02:51 PM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 03:10 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Oct 12 - 04:39 PM
Keith A of Hertford 25 Oct 12 - 05:01 PM
bobad 25 Oct 12 - 05:05 PM
bobad 25 Oct 12 - 05:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Oct 12 - 05:36 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Oct 12 - 02:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Oct 12 - 02:59 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Oct 12 - 03:07 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Oct 12 - 03:31 AM
MGM·Lion 26 Oct 12 - 03:46 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Oct 12 - 04:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Oct 12 - 04:36 AM
MGM·Lion 26 Oct 12 - 05:37 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Oct 12 - 06:49 AM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Oct 12 - 07:16 AM
MGM·Lion 26 Oct 12 - 07:38 AM
Jim Carroll 26 Oct 12 - 07:41 AM
bobad 26 Oct 12 - 07:55 AM
Stringsinger 26 Oct 12 - 12:37 PM
beardedbruce 26 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM
Little Hawk 26 Oct 12 - 01:26 PM
GUEST 26 Oct 12 - 01:45 PM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Oct 12 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,Lighter 26 Oct 12 - 04:58 PM
Keith A of Hertford 26 Oct 12 - 11:34 PM
Stringsinger 27 Oct 12 - 10:29 AM
Stringsinger 27 Oct 12 - 10:37 AM
Stringsinger 27 Oct 12 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Lighter 27 Oct 12 - 04:14 PM
bobad 27 Oct 12 - 05:51 PM
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Subject: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:41 PM

Former Israeli general and ambassador to China wants to recreate the Nazi camp
experience in Gaza.



Holocaust in Gaza


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 07:06 PM

My guess is that no one on Mudcat will touch this with a proverbial ten foot pole.
It's grim but needs to be addressed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 07:44 PM

You guess wrong. I deal with it by making my views known to the Israeli government. I do not need you to be my conscience. And you're right, I won't deal with the issue on Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 08:00 PM

What Bruce said!

Starting another slanging match on this forum achieves nothing other than giving the usual suspects more encouragement than they deserve, and giving their views much more respect than they deserve.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:02 AM

"Hollocaust"
"Shoah"

Why use such emotionally charged words?
They are words that tell of genocide, millions of deaths, and untold misery.

Did one person starve in Gaza?


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:14 AM

"In an interview with the Israeli army spokesman, Mathilde Redmatn, deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza, clearly declared for all those willing to listen that there "is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza."

"If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach," noted Redmatn."

"Even Hamas has admitted that there is no Israeli-created starvation in Gaza.

"There is no starvation in Gaza. No one has died of hunger," Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Gaza's Ministry of Justice, told London's Daily Telegraph last year."


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:38 AM

OP "Former Israeli general and ambassador to China wants to recreate the Nazi camp
experience in Gaza."
For those who need reminding what the real Nazi camp experience was.
http://www.nuspel.org/holocaust.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:22 AM

You can't say we didn't warn you String.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:24 AM

Do you think use of those words appropriate and proportionate Don?


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:35 AM

See string.

Usual suspect number 1, and Israel's greatest fan, as usual, spoiling for a fight.

I'm out of this...permanently.
Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:53 AM

If Cook's story that the Israelis are trying to starve refugees into submission, there should be clearly independent verification of it.

Is there any? I didn't see any last night.

All I find are a reference to the number of food-carrying trucks going into Gaza daily, and to the fact that at some point the Israelis calculated the average number of calories required per person in Gaza. The figure is about the same as the number assumed for Americans by the U.S. government.

A Nazi-like policy of starvation or malnutrition would be an earth-shaking story that would be almost impossible to cover up.

For that reason it would be extremely stupid as well as criminal. It could not possibly benefit Israeli security. Yet no major news organization seems to be reporting it.

Questions: For how long have the food shipments been (allegedly) inadequate? If it's been true for months, it can't be legitimately explained. But if it's only been a few days (with minimal impact), it probably can be. And who says that Vilnai's comments have anything to do with what's actually happening? (He's not in charge of anything.) Why haven't others who favor the alleged policy spoken out similarly? Where's the outrage from liberal Israelis, including those who got the "Red Line" documents declassified in the first place?

So far it doesn't add up.

And the phrase "usual suspects" cuts two ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 10:55 AM

I'm reminded of Carl Sagan's remark that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM

I see Hamas is doing all it can to ensure that sanctions aren't lifted.

Hamas rocket attacks blast southern Israel
By Josef Federman, The Associated Press October 25, 2012 8:09 AM

Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip fired dozens of rockets and mortar shells into southern Israel on Wednesday in the heaviest bombardment on the area in months, drawing ominous Israeli threats of retaliation and dangers of escalation.

The violence came a day after a landmark visit to Gaza by the emir of Qatar. Israeli officials suggested the visit, the first by a head of state to the Hamas-ruled territory, emboldened the militant group.

The rocket fire began shortly after the emir left Gaza late Tuesday and continued through the night. Israeli officials said more than 80 projectiles were fired, and Hamas claimed responsibility for many of the attacks.

Israel responded with a series of airstrikes on rocket launchers, killing two Palestinian militants, according to Gaza medical officials. Two other Palestinians were killed Tuesday.

Three Thai labourers working on an Israeli farm were wounded, two seriously, when a rocket hit a chicken coop. Other rockets badly damaged five houses and broke car windows. Schools in the area were closed.

Many people spent the day indoors, while others stayed near makeshift cement shelters found in the streets of southern Israeli towns. In one farming community, shrapnel covered trees and a children's playhouse in a backyard.

A video issued by Hamas' military wing showed six rockets peeling off in rapid succession, then later, from what appears to be a different location, eight rockets shoot off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

"there should be clearly independent verification of it."
Old news - it was reported in the Times a couple of weeks ago
Jim Carroll

http://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-starvation-diet-gaza/11810
http://www.juancole.com/2012/10/creepy-israeli-planning-for-palestinian-food-insecurity-in-gaza-revealed.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19975211
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2012/10/25/israels-solution-for-gaza-a-starvation-diet/
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/israels-starvation-diet-formula-in-gaza-and-the-expansion-of-the-dahiya-doctrine.html
http://palestinianpundit.blogspot.ie/2012/10/the-starvation-diet-for-gaza-shows.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:04 PM

To use the Yiddish vernacular to your comment about starving Palestinians, I say to that,
"drek and more drek". Of course they starve.

As to not wanting to discuss it on Mudcat, 999, you are hiding an important issue
under an Israeli rock.

Guest Lighter, there are a lot of earth shaking news events that are being covered up, particularly if you rely on conventional main stream media for your information.
You are entitled to challenge my source of information but I must reciprocate and ask where do you get your information that constitutes denial?


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 01:54 PM

This is supposed to have happened years ago, but still no-one has starved.
To equate the Gaza situation with the Nazi holocaust is to deny the horror of the holocaust.
Holocaust denial.
Remove those words and this story lacks impact:-

Beastly Israelis deliver enough food to Gaza, but no more.
And just because Gaza declared war. and keeps trying to murder ordinary Israelis with indiscriminate rocket fire.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:04 PM

OP link.
"Six and a half years go, shortly after Hamas won the Palestinian national elections and took charge of Gaza, a senior Israeli official described Israel's planned response. "The idea," he said, "is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger."

Six and a half years later not one has.
Compare that with the idea behind the Nazi holocaust.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:42 PM

Keith A: It's hardly "Holocaust denial." If untrue, it would be "Holocaust exploitation."

Stringsinger: Once revealed, the self-destructive idiocy of such an alleged policy would instantly turn Israel into a pariah without having enhanced its security one bit. And how is it possible that an operative plan to effectively starve 1.5 million refugees hasn't been picked up by the Big Media? Why haven't Arab governments issued authoritative statements? Why hasn't the issue been referred to the UN?

Well, maybe these things will happen. Maybe they won't.

My brand of common sense says that such a story - easily confirmable by journalists as well as by the UN and other international agencies - could not be covered up for long. But so far we have only one journalist's word for it. Hardly "extraordinary evidence for an extraordinary claim."

Consider: the misleading evidence that Saddam Hussein had WMDs was certainly stronger than what Cook provides. In the case of Iraq there was defector testimony, satellite surveillance, intercepted communications, Hussein's prolonged resistance to UN inspection, and a conceivable motive. But still there were no WMDs. For Gaza, all we have are a few statistics, a quote that may or may not mean much, and an implicit faith in the writer's interpretation.

If Cook's story is authoritatively confirmed, I'll gladly retract my idle suspicions and be as outraged as anyone here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:51 PM

Perhaps we should establish a sliding scale of atrocities aganist non-combatants and award penalty points - 1 for humiliation at a checkpoint; 2 for building a wall through people's land and cutting of their means of livelihood, 3 for tearing down people's homes, 4 for using chemical weapons in built up areas... up to the massacre of thousands of refugees
This latest atrocity is aimed at civilians and is comparable to taking hostages and starving a people into submission - a war crime in anyone' (with a shread of decency) book.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 03:10 PM

Starving into submission is usually considered a legitimate tactic in war.
The allies practised it against the Nazis.
Israel is not practising that.
It is delivering food so there is no starvation, even though Gaza continues to wage war against them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 04:39 PM

"Shoah" in Hebrew mean "calamity". So does "Nakba" in Arabic, the word used for the mass expulsion of Palestinians which accompanied the estabishment of Israel.

Perhaps it might be better to use the word in English. That way no one could dispute that it is an accurate and appropriate word.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:01 PM

Was there a name for the greater mass expulsion of Jews which accompanied the establishment of Israel?


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:05 PM

Your statement may be interpreted that you are drawing an equivalency between the Holocaust and the Palestinian refugee situation following the Arab-Israeli War - I hope that is not your intent.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:07 PM

My post is directed at McGofH's post of 4:39.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 05:36 PM

Measuring such things and balancing them against each other is to reduce human calamity to a matter of accountancy and bookkeeping.

Essentially it's the same kind of arithmetical game that Holocaust deniers play when they suggest that somehow if they can manipulate the figures so that if the numbers killed in the death camps was lower tha has been claimed that would somehow reduce the crime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 02:43 AM

I wonder to what lengths the Israelis have to go before they raise one squeak of criticism from their apologists
We've had the massacre of refugees, constant humiliation on a daily basis, chemical weapons that maim men, women and children alike, attacks on hospitals and schools, heavy artillery used on the civilian population, the use of non combatants as human shields, mass evictions, the destruction of homes, ghettoisation, the expulsion of whole ethnic groups onto toxic rubbish dumps, partition of land in order to prevent civilians from feeding their families or making in a living, the murder of aid workers, an ongoing blockade to starve and humiliate a whole people into submission by denying them the essentials of living and human dignity..... not a single tear, crocodile or otherwise and certainly not a breath of criticism (perish the thought!).
These are civilian people being deliberately targeted daily on a long term and massive basis by a major power with nuclear capability.
The only thing separating this behaviour from similar crimes against humanity in the past is the scale of the operation - early days yet.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 02:59 AM

All worthy topics for discussion Jim, and raked up yet again by you because the subject of this thread does nothing to demonize Israel.

McGrath, there were many mass displacements of people in the 20th Century, not least in Europe, and all at least comparable to those associated with Israel.
To argue that the unique horrors of the extermination camps was just another calamity among many is not just an arithmetical game of accountancy and bookkeeping, it is to deny the event.

And, to describe the zero fatality partial blockade of Gaza as another Shoah and Holocaust is grotesque.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 03:07 AM

"All worthy topics for discussion Jim"
All discussed and defended by you and your apologist cronies.
This discussion on past discussions is finished
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 03:31 AM

So why start it Jim?
(Twat)


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 03:46 AM

'I wonder to what lengths the Israelis have to go before they raise one squeak of criticism from their apologists'
.,,.,
Jim, you know that I have more than squeaked, but have risked alienating myself from my nearest & dearest by my criticisms of the iniquities of that dreadful regime, which in no way resembles what I spent so much of my youth trying to establish. You know also that we have been before over your injudicious use of terms like 'holocaust', which you persisted in despite its being pointed out to you how offensive this was, not just to Israel, but to the entire worldwide Jewish demographic; which was the occasion of some accusations on my part, which you much resented at the time & which you know I now regret. You recently expressed a wish for a rapprochement between us, to which I wholeheartedly agreed.

So I am most saddened to find you still concurring in the employment of these preternaturally offensive terms. It is not your points I question, but the ill-judgment of the vocabulary in which you and others are couching them here.

Please let us not revert to our regrettable hostile mode of address to one another. A little restraint in the terms in which you put your points would, I think, be desirable.

Best regards

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:30 AM

"preternaturally offensive terms"
One again - how far does Israel have to go?
You have the subjects of human righs abuses - are you prepared to justify the undisputed facts
Human rights crimes are not up for debate Keith - they are crimes against humanity
The article in this morning's Irish Times will no doubt be of comfort
to some here, but will set many million corpses spinning in their graves (where they have graves).
Jim Carroll

POLITICAL MERGER STUNS ISRAEL AHEAD OF GENERAL ELECTION
Mark Weiss
In a political bombshell that shook up the Israeli election campaign, prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu announced last night that his ruling Likud party would fight the election on a joint list with the far-right Yisrael Beiteinu party, headed by controversial foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman.
Israel's Channel 2 reported that a secret clause in the merger deal allows Mr Lieberman to replace Mr Netanyahu as prime minister in the fourth year of the next term, assuming the new party forms the government – both parties denied that report.
The dramatic merger decision was made after secret negotiations between the two men. Senior officials in both parties were kept in the dark.
The united list is almost certain to be the biggest party by far in the next Knesset parliament following the January 22nd election, and ensure a third term as prime minister for Mr Netanyahu.
Announcing the decision at a joint news conference last night, Mr Netanyahu said unity would bring the country stability.
"The union between the Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu will allow us to protect Israel in the face of security threats and the power to make economic changes within the country."
Most Likud ministers welcomed the deal, but not all.
One minister, Michael Eitan, said the union should be rejected. "If it happens, this agreement will eliminate the Likud and be a threat to Israeli democracy."
The new party will be called Likud Beiteinu (Likud Our Home). Mr Netanyahu will head the list. Mr Lieberman will take the number two slot, and will probably be able to choose any portfolio.
The first 42 places on the list will be divided up according to the current Knesset representation – 27 for the Likud and 15 for Yisrael Beiteinu – but internal polls conducted ahead of the merger showed the new party had the potential to win an unprecedented 50 seats in the 120-seat Knesset.
There has been much speculation over recent weeks of a joint centre-left alliance emerging, but, despite last night's bombshell, such a development looks unlikely. The leaders of the main left and centre parties have failed to agree on who should head such a list.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:36 AM

Human rights crimes are not up for debate Keith - they are crimes against humanity

Yes, and I am aginst them!
We all are Jim.
(twat)


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 05:37 AM

Jim: You are a free agent, and entitled to express yourself in what words you will. But I cannot but wonder why you choose to do so in terms which you know are gratuitously offensive to many people who are beyond the parameters of those [the Israeli government and its adherents] whom you are, probably rightly, denouncing. What good does it do you to insult so many people who are not part of the offence you are attacking? Do you not consider that it might be counter-productively alienatory to many who would otherwise agree with you?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 06:49 AM

"are gratuitously offensive to many people "
I find the defence of behaviour I have just outlined "gratuitously offensive" and an affront to humanity.
If you have differences with my opinions, please state them instead of demanding that I wrap them up in cotton wool for the benefit of appeasers and hypocrites.
Do you really not know how volatile the situation has become and how likely it is to end in international conflict?
Please don't try to instruct me on the use of weasel words, I have enough examples to draw upon on this forum should I feel the need.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:16 AM

Stringsinger,
starving Palestinians, I say to that,
"drek and more drek". Of course they starve.


No.
They do not.
Not one.
You are entitled to challenge my source of information but I must reciprocate and ask where do you get your information that constitutes denial?

Your source of information states in the first sentence that there was no intention to cause starvation.

Mathilde Redmatn, deputy director of the Red Cross in Gaza, clearly declared for all those willing to listen that there "is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza."

"If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach," noted Redmatn."

"There is no starvation in Gaza. No one has died of hunger," Khalil Hamada, a senior official at Gaza's Ministry of Justice

Danish reporter, June 2010
"Judging from the media, the situation in Gaza is desperate, everything is about to collapse, and the community is on the brink or at the level of a third world country.

Yesterday I drove into the Gaza Strip...

This time, I had expected to see real suffering, because with all the fuss in recent days about bringing tons of humanitarian relief in - so much that people actually sacrificed their lives for it - there certainly had to really be a deep, desperate situation in the Gaza Strip. No food. Long queues in front of UN food stocks. Hungry children with food bowls.

But this was not the picture that greeted me.

I will not say whether, in better times has been a larger product range than there was yesterday. But there was certainly no shortage of vegetables, fruits or any other ordinary, basic foods.
http://blog.camera.org/archives/2010/06/dutch_report_no_food_crisis_in.html

And, This Week In Palestine, October 2012
http://www.thisweekinpalestine.com/details.php?id=1726&ed=115


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:38 AM

Have it your way, Jim. You are a big boy. I just think, as a friend, that a bit of thought might lead you to better recollections. But I am not holding my breath.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:41 AM

Some more to ignore in the war agaist civilians
Jim Carroll

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/gaza-blockade-still-operational-still-violating-human-rights/
http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Gaza%20Health%20Report%20FINAL-LR.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza
http://imeu.net/news/article0019136.shtml


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:55 AM

Some more to ignore in the war against civilians:

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCABRE89N09U20121024


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:37 PM

Bullshit, Keith. What do you think a "shoah" is? Bibi wants to put the Palestinians on a diet.
Only his diet reflects starvation since they've cut back on the amount of trucks carrying food that they will allow into Gaza. How on earth do you know that there's no starvation there?

Keith, she also said, ""Despite the easing of the closure and the partial lifting of export bans in the wake of the flotilla incident, continued restrictions on the movement of people and difficulties in importing building materials hampered sustainable economic recovery and dashed any hope of leading a normal and dignified life," the Red Cross official was quoted as saying.

If this isn't a humanitarian crisis, then what is? I suspect Mathilde as being a puppet for Israeli propaganda. When you try to subjugate and control a whole population of people because you want to punish them, this in my view is a humanitarian crisis despite the Potempkin of super markets or whatever she was allowed to see.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM

So, Stringsinger, what is the equivalent food value of 80+ missiles?

THAT cannot be blamed on the Israelis- the Gazan's chose to import them rather than food- so I would not think them to be starving.

Oh, that's right- Jews, Arab Israelis and Thai workers are not really human, so it is OK to try to kill them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 01:26 PM

I agree with you fully on this, Stringsinger, but I have long since decided there's not much use discussing it on Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 01:45 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/17/world/meast/israel-calorie-count-gaza/index.html

This account notes, as Cook's carefully does not, that the situation he describes was "eased in 2010."

It all happened several years ago, and there've been no reports of starvation (much less indications that Gaza will be "uninhabitable by 2020"). So the story seems to boil down to the fact that the Israeli government calculated an average calorie requirement for the Palestinians that is essentially the same as what the U.S. government calculates for its own citizens. It may or may not have implemented that calculation, but Cook's story implies it would have been a crime to do so, a "starvation diet." In fact it would not.

The restrictions on food shipments seem to have been symbolic.

Unlike the "Shoah."

Cook concludes that "It does not need an expert to conclude that" the cutbacks would "entail widespread malnutrition." But why didn't he consult an expert? Because the expert might contradict him?

Had there been malnutrition in Gaza over a period of years, wouldn't we have heard about it?

Have we? Has the Palestinian Authority called on the UN for action? Did CNN report what would have been a vastly bigger story than what we have here?

Think about it. An Israeli policy that was apparently intended (despite a symbolic cutback in deliveries) to provide as many daily calories for the Palestinians as Americans are supposed to get, is enthusiastically equated to the extermination of 6,000,000 Jews by the Nazis.

And that astonishing comparison is accepted as fact.

Like I say, think about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 02:35 PM

There is malnutrition in Gaza as in most countries.
Its cause is poverty not lack of food (Kazam rockets about $500 each).

So 6 plus years ago Israel determined that there should be no starvation in Gaza, and were as good as their word.
(We DO know there is no starvation. Gaza is well reported on, has numerous UN agencies and international aid agencies. You will find no report of starvation.)

I can think of no other example in the whole world of such magnanimity to a sworn enemy, never mind one constantly launching illegal, indiscriminate weapons at civilians.
Thank you Stringsinger for drawing our attention to it.
One small cheer for Israel I think..


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:58 PM

1:45 PM was me.

> I can think of no other example in the whole world of such magnanimity to a sworn enemy...

The Marshall Plan and the rebuilding of Japan come to mind. Of course, at that point Germany and Japan were no longer our sworn enemies. But in the event of Palestinian takeover of Israel, how many would expect even vaguely magnanimous treatment for the defeated Israelis?


>...never mind one constantly launching illegal, indiscriminate weapons at civilians.

Except for the word "constantly," an indisputable fact.

And launched because the elected Palestinian National Authority is too weak, short-sighted, and feud-oriented to stop it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 11:34 PM

Thanks Lighter.
I am off for a week.
keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 10:29 AM

Oh c'mon Bruce. That's not reasonable. You think all Palestinians want to destroy Israel? They are the victims of apartheid and are being punished because they voted the wrong way. You are ignoring the Israeli "Cast Lead" which decimated much of Palestine.

Keith, I suspect that your source of information is tainted by Israeli propaganda.
What UN agencies and international agencies are you presenting as proof?

The lady Mathilde from the Red Cross is obviously deluded.

Israel is not as magnanimous as you say since it oppresses the Palestinian
population through check points, harassment and a non-transparent
attempt to starve the people of Gaza.

Thank you for showing us that Israel is a bully and a tyrant who has brain-washed many with their propaganda including the nonsense that you are presenting.
BTW not all Israeli citizens agree with what their government it doing,
as is the case in the U.S. There are courageous Israeli citizens such as Uri Avnery of Gush Shalom who are reported on in Ha'aretz, a more liberal paper than AIPAC
who is completely brain-washed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 10:37 AM

"Had there been malnutrition in Gaza over a period of years, wouldn't we have heard about it? "

Some of us who are enlightened on the subject have heard about it for years.
The defense of Israel by the U.S. would prevent relevant information from coming out.

Obama and Romney both would not allow any truth about the Israeli situation to surface because it would undermine their credibility.

It is a fact that the source of farming, olive trees, and other food resources that the Palestinians have had for their survival have been systematically destroyed by the Israeli government and that has been know about for years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 02:52 PM

Keith, you are a great advertisement for BDS.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 04:14 PM

You seem to be saying, String, that the U.S. government and news media are in the iron grip of Israel and its stooges. And the media and governments of other Western nations as well. How could this have this happened?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Claiming personal enlightenment is no evidence.

Not to change the subject, but why is it that the Palestinians and their Arab and Islamic governmental partisans refuse even to grant that the nation of Israel has a right to exist? Particularly when over 150 members of the UN not only recognize Israel's legitimacy but carry on reciprocal diplomatic relations with it? Is there any other nation on earth whose declared enemies repeatedly urge its annihilation? (Which brings me back to the question of how much magnanimity any conquerors of Israel might be expected to show to the defeated.) Proclaiming that Israel has as much right to exist as any other nation would be a giant step toward resuming negotiations. Why won't the Palestinians and their friends take it?

Among the 150 sovereign nations that recognize Israel's existence are Russia, China, Vietnam, South Africa, Egypt, and Jordan. Have they all been brainwashed? Or are they in cynical collusion with the "Great Satan"?

Assertions of Israeli evil (not to mention genoicide) that emanate solely from pro-Palestinian sources require the kind of extraordinary independent confirmation that Carl Sagan was talking about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Vilnai: inflict a 'shoah' on Gaza
From: bobad
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 05:51 PM

Speaking of enlightenment this review of three books written by people who have observed human atrocities in the Middle East first hand paints a slightly different picture than that fed to it's useful idiots by Palestinian propagandists.

While Canadian leftists attempt to "break the siege" of Gaza there's a whole world of people out there fighting for freedom against the very likes of Hamas writes Terry Glavin

Read and reflect: On the front lines of a global struggle


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