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BS: The GOP will steal the election [2012]

Stringsinger 15 Oct 12 - 06:22 PM
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Subject: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 06:22 PM

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/10/14-4

Mitt's cronies own the voting machines. Guess who will do the counting?

Bain is involved. The GOP will steal Ohio. Husted and Kasich will make sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 07:58 PM

Yeah, there is more than a little evidendce that John Kerry won in 2004 but, hey, the Republicans have been into election rigging for some time now and are the experts...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 08:16 PM

NO!! Quit giving that kind of negative bs energy! If we lend our will, our thoughts and our actions, to the positive, we do a great service for all. If we promote fear-mongering, we stoop to their level.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 08:41 PM

I'm with kat on this.

I'm damned tired of people telling me that "the fix is in," "the whole thing has been bought," "there's nothing anyone can do," and the whole "You can't fight City Hall" thing, which is a rumor promulgated by City Hall, hoping that you won't even try.

No, I'm voting for Obama and the whole slate of candidates I've already decided on. Then, if the Ratfinks get in, well, at least I've done MY bit!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: gnu
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 08:46 PM

kat... agreed. Well said.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,mark-s(0n the road)
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:16 PM

Good Lord - fumble fingers tonight

Anyway - Hey - It ain't over! President Obama has a good chance to take Ohio. Voting machine conspiracies will not seem so big a problem then!
Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:36 PM

Koch brothers to workers: Vote for Romney or 'suffer the consequences'

In an email obtained exclusively by Up w/ Chris Hayes, the CEO of Florida-based software firm ASG asks his over 1,000 employees to vote for Mitt Romney for president, and suggests their jobs may be at stake if Romney doesn't win.

By Martha C. White

As a contentious election season enters its final weeks, a flurry of communication from corporate leaders to rank-and-file workers strongly implies that voting for Obama could imperil their jobs and their financial stability.

Employees of a paper company owned by the outspoken billionaire Koch brothers received a mailing warning that they could "suffer the consequences, including higher gasoline prices, runaway inflation, and other ills" if they voted for candidates not supported by Koch-owned companies or its political fund-raising arm.

The company also provided workers with a list of those candidates it supports. At the top: Mitt Romney, according to media outlet In These Times, which broke the story. "The packet also included an anti-Obama editorial by Charles Koch and a pro-Romney editorial by David Koch," it said.

"This is in no way an attempt to 'intimidate' employees," Greg Guest, senior director of corporate communications at Georgia-Pacific, said in a statement on the site kochfacts.com.

"It's free speech. On the other hand, while it's maybe not directly intended to be intimidating, it can be intimidating," said Izzy Kushner, president of consulting firm HR Impact and president of the Human Resources Association of New York.

Although the Koch brothers are known for their outspoken support of the GOP, "Our support is not based on party affiliation, and we support both Republicans and Democrats who support market-based policies and solutions," Guest's statement said.

"In the flyer sent to Oregon employees, all 14 Koch-backed state candidates were Republicans," In These Times reported. A request for examples of Democratic candidates included on the list of Koch-supported candidates was not answered by press time.

In recent days, other reports have surfaced of company heads telling workers to vote for Romney in the upcoming election, ...

....

[More at the link]

So who's surprised?

John


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 11:13 PM

Those evil fuckers!

Hear, hear, Don!

Thanks, gnu!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:24 AM

Hmm. Steal an election? Sure wouldn't be the first time, would it?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 08:50 AM

As pointed out by Kat and others, the premise of this thread, like so many of its ilk, is drivel.

The orginator of the thread could not help Romney more if he were paid directly by him for services rendered.

The stupid defeatist attitude of those who endorse the premise of the thread is exactly what Romney and the GOP want.

Hope I'm not too subtle.

Who won in 2008?

This election, like so many, is all about turnout. Huge numbers of young people and minorities voted in 2008.    If, perhaps influenced by asinine threads like this, some think it's not worth voting since the GOP will steal the election anyway, and stay home as a result, Obama will definitely lose.

But if similar numbers to 2008 of young people, minorities-- and other people who recognize the long-term (or even short-term ) threat Romney poses to the social safety network, especially Medicare and Social Security-- do support Obama again, Romney will have no chance.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

Ditto that Mr Davies. Obama's going to win, but folks have gotta stay positive.

I wrote to President Obama to say I hope he kicks ass in the debate, but that means he's got to get in ass-kicking mode. (No it wasn't in those words.) I doubt he'll ever get to it, but that kind of attitude circulates. We have been letting the Republicans get us down. In little words, screw them! They do not own democracy, try as they have. Not yet anyway. Not unless people give in or give up.

With you on that all the way, Kat.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:29 PM

They will certainly *try*.
In my area, we are seeing a backlash against the voter suppression crap they tried to shove through...the very ones they tried to disenfranchise are now energized to vote for sure!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 12:39 PM

Frankly the electoral system in this country, or should I say the lack one, is a violation of every citizens' civil rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: kendall
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 01:13 PM

Our own secretary of state is running for the senate. He gets to oversee the ballot counting. And that aint just negative energy.History has proven them to be snakes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:49 PM

The evidence is already in. This is not a conspiracy theory but a fact. Stalin said, "it matters not who votes but who counts the votes.

The GOP pulled their crap in Florida defeating Al Gore and the conservative Supreme Court elected George W. Bush. The reason you who are reacting negatively to this idea is that you are in denial and fearful that this might be right. If you want to whitewash this,
that's your prerogative.

The polls conducted by Miami Herald and the N.Y. Times showed that Kerry was ahead
and that Blackwell, governor of Ohio, made sure that the election was fixed because of
his influence with Wally O'Dell who ran the Diebold e-voting machine.

I suggest that you nay-sayers take a look at Bev Harris and what she has been trying to expose for the last few years.   Also read the article by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman.

Remember what the governor of Pennsylvania has announced about restricting voters at the poll. "Romney, done!"

This doesn't mean that you should not vote, however. The vote is extremely important as
an American moral choice. Just don't count on the GOP not pulling their usual shit.
Watch the exit polls and then who the election is called for.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 02:59 PM

The GOP will steal the election if it is close enough to steal. When the polls put Ohio with Obama only 5 points ahead I put that in my Romney leaning category, a tie is a safe Romney margin. In Florida, NC, and other states which have simple voter suppression and GOP state government, the President is tied if he is three ahead.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 04:14 PM

Yeah, like they stole the Washington gubernatorial election a cycle or two ago. Oh wait! It was the other side which stole that election. Give a rest guys!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 05:44 PM

No people need to know about this and not accept it passively as if there wasn't anything that could be done about it. Remember that the polls are conducted in a way that radically fluctuates and are only reliable one day at a time.

What is needed is paper ballots which are harder to manipulate.

We don't know the real poll numbers because the corporate owned media quotes them as if it supports their horse race, which brings them the advertising dollars.

Hart intercivic on which votes are cast through the e-voting machines in Hamilton county, Ohio, have a close tie in Cincinnati taken over by H.I.G. Capital with close ties to Bain Capital. H.I.G. has given a large amount of money to the Romney Campaign.

Remember that there is no transparency offered to the corporations who count the votes
or the custody of the voting machines which can be easily flipped.

This is a crucial aspect of elections that undermine democracy.

Those that refuse to look at this are not protecting their vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 05:48 PM

Don't trust the main stream media to give you an accurate account as to which candidate is ahead.

The MSM have newscasters who make a lot of money and are part of the 1% or close to it.

The only way to be informed is to seek out alternative media sources and get to know the people who really know what's going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 07:30 PM

"What is needed is paper ballots..."

Yes, yes, and yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Oct 12 - 11:20 PM

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/334921

The best article I have yet seen to do with how much people understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:03 AM

"governor of Pennsylvania...."

Then there's the little matter of the PA Supreme Court saying that the picture ID requirement cannot in fact be used for this election--they will revisit that issue afterwards.

But that doesn't fit with the whining about the stealing of the election--before the fact. So sorry.

As I said earlier, this thread is worse than useless.    Anybody--a young person, for instance, who feels that the change he or she hoped for has not happened may already be not fired up to vote.    Threads like this encourage that person to think "it's not worth it anyway--no point to my voting."

Again, Mitt Romney thanks those who support the premise of the thread.

But I have a question:    if you do in fact support the president, when will you start thinking--and therefore not starting worse than pointless threads like this one?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:56 AM

"As I said earlier, this thread is worse than useless.    Anybody--a young person, for instance, who feels that the change he or she hoped for has not happened may already be not fired up to vote.    Threads like this encourage that person to think "it's not worth it anyway--no point to my voting.""

Not only is this statement untrue, it ignores the central issue, the vote counting is not transparent to the public and is owned by private corporations.

The pointless aspect of this thread is the denial of those supporters who don't want to face the issue. It doesn't matter who supports the president if he will have the election stolen from him and don't think that it can't happen as Bush V. Gore and Bush V. Kerry have shown us.

The attitude that this issue is swept under the rug is what is really useless. If Americans won't defend their vote, then what's the point of democracy?

It's not just the ID restrictions that are a problem, it's the chain of custody of the e-voting machines that are a problem.

As long as Americans choose to be ignorant about this issue, you can count on the continued corruption in election fraud. Hey, democrats, don't say I didn't warn you.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 09:04 AM

Just think. If you were a conservative, you would be a winner instead of a whiny loser.

You could be happy instead of a crybaby.

You could be satisfied instead of being unhappy because someone has something you don't have.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 09:32 AM

That is really funny considering the "whaaa" post of yours that just got deleted on another thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 09:55 AM

Sawzall- you could also be a self-enamored, loudmouthed, ignorant, greedy prick and be happy that you've got everything most everyone doesn't have.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:32 AM

"Just think. If you were a conservative, you would be a winner instead of a whiny loser.
You could be happy instead of a crybaby.
You could be satisfied instead of being unhappy because someone has something you don't have. "

How a can anyone write this without irony? I guess it is only childish whining when other people do it?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:15 AM

The GOP are gonna steal second place.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:14 PM

They stole North Carolina legislature in 2010. I guess bought it would be more accurate.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:54 PM

This should be a non or bi partisan issue. It's not a matter of which party affiliation you have but protecting the vote against discriminate voter ID laws throwing voters off the roles or the manipulation of e-voting machines which can be easily re-calibrated by those in dominant political power to defraud the public, and the buying of elections by corporate lobbies.

Putting heads in sands doesn't make this issue go away.

it can be done by Republicans or Democrats and it needs to be stopped.

Answer: throw out the flipping voter machines and reinstitute paper ballots which are harder to manipulate or use to cheat. Curtail the corporate lobbies and get rid of the statutory voter ID laws, a modern version of the poll tax.

This is not a negative view of the voting process but an attempt to save it from corruption.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:55 PM

Guest 999, watch the exit polls and compare them to the erstwhile winner.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:56 PM

"This is not a negative view of the voting process but an attempt to save it from corruption."

It's pretty much like talking morals in a whore house, Frank.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 01:20 PM

Then democracy has been prostituted by unscrupulous politicians and I take a more
proactive view that with education on this issue, something can be done about it.

Putting the head in the sand (denying that it exists) will not fix the problem.

Fortunately there are those such as Bev Harris, Amy Goodman, Thom Hartmann, Greg Palast, Fitrakis and Wasserman who are willing to tackle the problem and not become defeatist.

Hey America, you want to be ruled by corrupt politicians who steal elections and sit there and take it?

I don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Sawzaw
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:18 PM

So the Libs admit defeat.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Amos
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:22 PM

Liberalism, by its nature, cleaves to the inherent biases of reality; as such it can be fended off, but it cannot be defeated.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:23 AM

There is no defeat when truth exposes the iniquity of the electoral process. I conclude that not all the e-voting machines will be corrupted but the nature of the technology makes it very easy for technicians to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: bobad
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:32 PM

GOP contractor arrested for destruction of voter registration applications

The Rockingham County Sheriff's Office in Virginia announced Thursday that it had arrested the man who allegedly tossed completed voter registration forms in a dumpster.

Police on Thursday arrested 31-year-old Colin Small, who was a voter registration supervisor employed by Pinpoint, an independent firm contracted by the Republican Party of Virginia.

Smith has been charged with four counts of destruction of voter registration applications, eight counts of disclosure of voter registration application, and one count of obstruction of justice.

"There is no indication that this activity was widespread in our jurisdiction; it appears to be very limited in nature but there is the possibility that additional charges may be filed in the future if it is deemed appropriate," the sheriff's office said in a statement. "There are no other details that we can release at this time, as this is still an active and ongoing criminal investigation."

Earlier this week, a man working at a Tuesday Morning store saw someone toss something in the dumpster behind his work and speed off in a car. When he investigated what had been thrown out, he discovered several voter registration forms, which were filled out.

"Those eight or nine people may not know what happened, and imagine how they're going to feel the day on election day, they go into vote and their name isn't on the list. I'd be a little bit ticked off," said Rob Johnson, who found the forms and contacted police.

The forms were delivered to the Rockingham County registrar just hours before the registration deadline.

Raw Story (http://s.tt/1qrZV)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Miriam
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:19 PM

Of course they will, if they can: Their entire philosophy is "if we can't win, cheat." They stole both Bush elections, the first with the aid of the Supreme Court, which stopped the recount and just handed the whole thing over to W. Our philosophy is "the greatest good for the greatest number of people." They don't want democracy, they want oligarchy (government by the few) and/or plutocracy (government by the rich). The democratic philosophy is "the greatest good for the greatest number of people." Remember Ted Sorensen, speech writer for JFK, who said "Ask not what your country can do for you"...


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:34 PM

Miriam is certainly right about the Repuglicans.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:09 PM

I think Miriam is right about both USA parties. However, it was necessary for the Republicans to cheat in 2000 and 2004 to win those elections...so they did, and they got away with it. The Democratic Party has often cheated in elections too, I think. There's historical evidence that they have. It's likely, for example, that there was cheating by the Democratic machine in Chicago in 1960 which helped John Kennedy win that election.

As Miriam said, "They don't want democracy, they want oligarchy (government by the few) and/or plutocracy (government by the rich)."

And that's what really exists in the USA. Government by the rich. It also exists in most other places, by the way, but not quite so blatantly in most cases.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:55 PM

Bull, LH...

That is delusional not based on recent (last 50 or so years) American history... One and probably two stolen presidential elections have been stolen by the Republicans in the last 12 years... The last stolen election in American history goes back to 1876 with the Hayes/Tilden election when the winner was declared the loser in a deal to end Reconstruction and Union occupation of the South...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Genie
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 03:17 AM

The ONE sure way to counteract the voter suppression, voter intimidation, and electronic vote flipping is to TURN OUT IN HUGE NUMBERS to vote.   If the actual preferences of those who vote (or try to vote) are nearly evenly split (within a couple percentage points) it's pretty easy for an election to be stolen by selectively preventing people from voting in certain districts and/or by tampering with the voting machines.    But it's much harder to do that if one candidate (or issue) is actually winning by a large margin.

So do not be discouraged.   Get mad! Get energized! And get out there and VOTE!

I'll also say to the Democrats who, on election night, SEEM to have lost by a fairly slim margin: DO NOT CONCEDE until ALL the votes have been counted, including absentee ballots and provisional ballots.    (Hear that, John Kerry?)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 03:26 AM

The Democranks will lose due to incompetence.
Prez al-Obama is resorting to puerile childish insults.
(:-( P)=


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 11:19 AM

Not as puerile or childish as ninety percent of YOUR BS!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 11:31 AM

Damn! I agree with Don again. I even saw something by Mither the other day that I agreed with.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 11:56 AM

"DO NOT CONCEDE until ALL the votes have been counted"...

A concession is merely an expression of opinion by a candidate that it looks as if he or she has lost, and is as subject to error as a claim in advance that he or she is going to win. Presumably the counting must still goes on, and that's what determines the outcome of the election. (Setting aside the matter of disputing hanging chads and so forth, where a concession might be liable to stop the challenges.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 01:11 PM

Not in this country McGrath, especially if the Secretary of State in the close states are in the other party. It shocked and dismayed me when I first discovered this in 2000. Many partisan Americans seem to think it is OK to turn counting the votes into a legal contest.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 01:22 PM

The law is our last recourse to see that one Party doesn't cheat and if there is cheating going on, the court cases must ensue without a concession.

I agree with Genie that perhaps great numbers of people can overcome the vote flipping but this is unlikely in this election.

It's Romney who is the bully at the debates resorting to nonsensical attacks on Obama. So far, Obama has kept his cool and has a presidential demeanor.

The Repugs are better at cheating and bullying, reflected in the Congress, Tea Party, and other fascistic groups.

I doubt whether this election will result in anything except fierce ideological battles and partisanship. It may in fact split the country in half causing reactive expressions of dissatisfaction.

If Romney gets in, there will be blowback like you've never seen.

Ayn Rand will finally be discredited by huge numbers as she deserves to be.

And then there's "Turdblossom".


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 03:50 PM

Ayn Rand's philosophies are likely to get a good try.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 06:46 AM

Jack, not if some of us can stop it. Rand is a plague of sociopathy that will ruin our country.

Here's another article that shows you how much the GOP intends to cheat.


http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/19137

Our democracy is in peril. It may have been for some time but people have to wake up.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:09 AM

Here's another couple of articles on GOP election fraud by the GOP.

http://www.politicususa.com/republican-war-vote-continues.html

http://www.politicususa.com/real-threat-bain-electoral-fraud-romney-ohio.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 04:40 PM

This is 999's link from above:
Woman calls it irresponsible to put deer crossing signs on roads

I highly recommend listening; it is deeply surreal, and must be heard to be believed...


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 04:58 PM

Could somebody please answer a question from a puzzled Scot :0)

If this election is too close to call, the votes are likely to be equally divided and the Republicans are reckoned to be the party of the rich and powerful, how come the Dems have raised $900,000,000
and the Pubs have only raised $800,000,000 in campaign funds?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 05:10 PM

akenton, this is not factual. It's another Republican falsity.

Much of Obama's funds are coming from small independent donations and not mostly the fat cats.

Back to the discussion, here's some more food for thought.


http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13221476-romney-family-buys-voting-machines-through-bain-capital-investment


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 05:39 PM

Ake a serious answer would be that the Dems have a lot more donors. Also counting superPACs and other no party funds, I believe that the GOP has far outraised the Dems.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:30 PM

There are lots of things in this world that I don't understand. One of them is money and its uses during an election campaign.

We're talking about ads, right? I don't think I have ever been convinced of anything by reading an ad.

Even granting that some people are convinced by one-liners, zingers and sound bites, surely more money than necessary is being spent on them?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 05:12 AM

Jack... one would think that if the Republicans were indeed the party of the "better off", they would be able to outperform the Democrats who are supposed to represent the poor?

The figures I was quoting come from UK newspapers who strongly support President Obama.

I also find the amounts of money involved slightly nausiating....from both parties.
Why dont the US liberals protest about this, rather than peripheral social issues?
I think your political system requires a little attention.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 11:23 AM

aketon, don't know where you've been but US liberals have been protesting the Citizen's United ruling ever since it became law. I would like to see the source of your claim that Democrats have outspent Republicans in raising money. What peripheral social issues are you referring to? I think as an outsider, you really don't know what's going on in this country to make such a specious claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 11:28 AM

Here's something else you might want to consider about the theft of the next election.


http://www.fourwinds10.net/siterun_data/business/corporate_fraud/news.php?q=1350879332


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 11:49 AM

Akenaton,
The big money is in the outside groups - uncoordinated with the campaigns themselves. Here the Repubs have out raised and outspent the Dems by an order of magnitude.
Thanks to Citizens United of course...


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 12:26 PM

Sorry Tia....what do you mean by the outside groups?

The figures in the UK Times pertained to the total amount raised.

and why do both parties need such inordinate amounts of money?
Does the media really rule to that extent.....buying elections?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 12:41 PM

If the DEMS don't match the REPUGS in terms of funding, they lose!

Simples!..........To anybody who has lived on Planet Earth for long enough to realise that US elections most often go with the guy who fields the most MOOLA!

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 12:48 PM

"If the DEMS don't match the REPUGS in terms of funding, they lose!

Simples!..........To anybody who has lived on Planet Earth for long enough to realise that US elections most often go with the guy who fields the most MOOLA!
"


Yet the same does not apply to the Republicans?


I guess it is wrong for EITHER side to try to win the election, unless the bigots here (who apply the rules ONLY to those they disagree with) approve.

What s foolish bunch of Democraps.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 12:55 PM

Akenaton,
The campaigns (candidates) raise money. *That* is about equal (albeit from different sources...Obama gets 55% of his money from donations less than $200 while Romney gets 45% of his money from donations above the $2500 limit). Other groups can raise and spend as long as they do not coordinate with the campaigns. This money is many times larger than the actual campaign money, and Repubs raise 10X what Dems do in this.
And yes, disgustingly, in the USA, the candidate that spends the most money (or has the most spent on him/her by outside groups) wins the election over 75% of the time.
That is why US progressives have been fighting Citizens United so hard. Our elections can, in fact, be bought.
We used to be one person - one vote.
We are now one dollar - one vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 09:45 PM

This is shaping up to be the first two billion dollar election in history.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 06:17 AM

North Carolina Registers Over 583 Democrat Votes Over the Age of 112

Perhaps in an effort to promote North Carolina as one of the healthiest States in the Nation, this latest voter twist comes to us from Susan Myrick of the Civitas Institute in North Carolina--not to be confused with Rep. Sue Myrick of NC who is unrelated. In a radio interview with local WBT Anchor Tara Servatious, Susan reports that she has been keeping track of the number of votes in North Carolina of individuals over the age of 110 years and apparently we have quite a few, over 410 of the 110 year olds--to be exact-- actually voted via absentee ballot on October the 28th. Yes indeed, now it would appear that good ole NC has the market cornered on the Centenarian vote.

    At latest count, Susan has garnered a total Absentee Ballot vote of over 2,660 people over the age of 110....


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:41 AM

Saw, this interview Susan Myrick of the Civitas Institute is obviously doing something illegal in registering Democratic voters over 100. Civitas Institute which is a right wing organization and full of Republican propaganda, not to be taken as a credible
source of information. It's utter bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:43 AM

The Civitas Institute supports the claim that the GOP is actively and illegally fixing the election in their favor.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: pdq
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 12:18 PM

A Maryland Democratic candidate quit her congressional race Monday after her own party told state officials that she had committed fraud by voting in both Maryland and Florida in recent elections.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/maryland-politics/post/maryland-democrat-quits-congressional-race-amid-vote-fraud-allegation



A Maryland Democratic candidate quit her congressional race Monday after her own party told state officials that she had committed fraud by voting in both Maryland and Florida in recent elections.

Wendy Rosen, a small-business owner running against freshman Rep. Andy Harris (R) in the Eastern Shore-based 1st Congressional District, released a statement saying that "with great regret, and much sorrow" she was resigning from the contest.

"Personal issues have made this the hardest decision that I have had to make," Rosen said

Rosen's announcement came the same day the state Democratic party released a letter to state Attorney General Douglas Gansler and state prosecutors reporting the allegations against Rosen.

"The Maryland Democratic Party has discovered that Ms. Rosen has been registered to vote in both Florida and Maryland since at least 2006; that she in fact voted in the 2006 general election both in Florida and Maryland; and that she voted in the presidential preference primaries held in both Florida and Maryland in 2008," wrote Yvette Lewis, the state party chair. "This information is based on an examination of the voter files from both states. We believe that this is a clear violation of Maryland law and urge the appropriate office to conduct a full investigation."


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 12:23 PM

"A Maryland Democratic candidate quit her congressional race Monday after her own party told state officials that she had committed fraud by voting in both Maryland and Florida in recent elections."

I hope the Republicans would do something honourable like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 12:38 PM

This election is shaping up to be a cliff-hanger. Watching from the sidelines since I became a Canadian, but the results will affect Canada as well.

I fear the slash and burn candidates running for Congress on the Republican ticket will harm relations with Canada.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 12:46 PM

The USA mass media like cliffhanger elections. It increases public interest and voter turnout. Besides, a USA election (actually any election) is a giant soap opera, and to have a good soap opera you need some dramatic tension and an uncertain ending.

So it's all unfolding just as they would wish.

And then too...it's far easier to steal the election if it's a really close one. People are less likely to notice something is wrong with the final result.

So...who will it be this time? The Tweedledeemocrats? Or the Tweedledumlicans? I am biting my nails here. I don't think I can take much more of this suspense.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 12:51 PM

Take a look at the new map for MD district 3 and tell me which party is trying to steal elections...

http://www.mdp.state.md.us/PDF/Redistricting/2010maps/Cong/Dist_3.pdf

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/vote-against-maryland-redistricting/2012/10/19/dc06c282-1967-11e2-bd10-5ff056538b7c_story


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 12:55 PM

Not to fear, ya'll...

Yes, Boss Hog & Co., the Republican led statehouses, the Supreme Court and the Corporate Media are all (and have been) actively trying to defeat Obama... And I will give them credit for with everything that have done collectively they have badly damaged Obama (as well as the nation) but...

...the safe bet is on Obama winning in spite of their efforts...

And...

...picking up an additional Senate seat and 14 - 17 House seats...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 02:30 PM

"The USA mass media like cliffhanger elections. It increases public interest and voter turnout. Besides, a USA election (actually any election) is a giant soap opera, and to have a good soap opera you need some dramatic tension and an uncertain ending.

"So it's all unfolding just as they would wish."

Pronouncements such as this, George, are off-putting, to say the least. They remind me of a relative of mine who said: I'd better shut up. I've already said more than I know.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 02:44 PM

Well! ;-) I have to say that's a pretty amusing comment for anyone to make about themselves, Ebbie. Sounds like that relative of yours had a degree of humility and the ability to laugh at themselves, and that's always a good thing.

I do hope the damned Repugs lose, cos they are even worse than their erstwhile opponents on the other wing of the great big Eagle.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 03:41 PM

Here's some more news for you regarding the military's absentee ballots.


What democracy?

The only flipping besides Mitt will be the e-voting numbers.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 03:44 PM

BB, your second link was "not found". The first showed a redistricting map without any explanation.

Kucinich was gerry mandered out of a job in Ohio. Guess who did that?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 09:50 PM

Looks like the Republican's won't have to steal the election after all. Romney's now ahead in the polls, the debates are past, and all Romney has to do is shut the hell up for a couple of weeks and he's in. Who'd've thought it? Romney is a freaking nutcase. He's worse than McCain, if that's possible. But damned if Obama didn't blow it in the debates. The Prez. The cool one. Stumbled around like a teenaged stoner while Romney radiated that presidential glow. So now we're going to get an honest-to-God cult member in the white house. No telling what Obama is, with all his sealed records, but Romney's a certifiably insane member of a cult.

Obama's best move now is to scream Theft and then run off overseas. He signed the extension of the USA Patriot Act while he was in a Paris hotel room (totally illegal to do that, but he set the precedent), and now I wonder if that precedent wasn't set so he can rule in abstentia. When he gets his ass deservedly kicked, will he refuse to leave office and try ruling from Paris? Will the Bobert Brigade take up arms and riot for him?

As if it makes any difference:

Republicans, Democrats attacking Americans in bipartisan push for savage austeri

...there is today a consensus between Wall Street and Washington that draconian austerity must be imposed in the United States. This will be the case no matter whether Obama or Romney wins the upcoming election. Romney has been very open about his determination to rule in the name of the top 1% of financiers and oligarchs, while imposing hardships and sacrifices on the rest of the population. Obama is somewhat more discreet, but he also has clearly signaled his desire for a sweeping austerity program to be agreed on by the two major US parties as soon as possible, probably before the end of this year....

Observers have noted that Obama and Biden, in their three debates held so far with their Republican rivals, have never mentioned the traditional Democratic Party platform planks of raising the minimum wage; preserving the funding of the food stamp program (the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program of the US Department Of Agriculture) which keeps some 50 million Americans alive; maintaining and extending unemployment insurance payments to the jobless; or making it easier for trade unions to organize....

Intelligent trade unionists have not forgotten that, when the entire state of Wisconsin was gripped by a de facto general strike against the fascist Governor Walker in February-March 2011, Obama refused to lift a finger to help them. Obama could have sent in Vice President Biden, who pretends to be a populist, to support the strikers. He could have sent Attorney General Eric Holder to frighten the Walker gang with the prospect of federal indictments. He could have sent Labor Secretary Hilda Solis to investigate violations of the labor law. Obama could even have gone to Wisconsin himself, something he had promised to do in his 2000 campaign. But Obama did nothing....


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 09:57 PM

BS, wronger...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The DEMS will steal the election
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 10:02 PM

Voter Fraud Complaint Filed Against Fla. Democrats: AP
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Voter-Fraud-Complaint-Filed-Against-Fla-Democrats-AP-172902641.html


Feds to probe possible voter fraud in Florida
http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/279350/250/Florida-voters-receiving-hoax-letters
"Voters are getting letters that look like they are from local elections offices, questioning their citizenship. But our sister statoin[sic] WKMG Local 6 in Orlando has learned the letters are fake, and they are going out across Central Florida and other parts of the state.

"Officials said the voters who have received the letters thus far are white, registered Republicans who consistently vote in elections."


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Songwronger
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 10:36 PM

So are you going to fight the good fight, Bobert? It's all racism, you know. If Obama loses, it's only because he's black. And that's not right, right? You going to riot?

What the fuck did you Democrats do here? The powers that be put another head-case up against Obama. They recruited an also-ran from 2008 and set him up as a slap-down, but Obama with his limp wrist wasn't up to the slapping. And Romney's nuttier than McCain. I mean, how'd the hell did you people blow it? Obama proved he was a traitor by going to a church where the pastor preached Godd*m America, but Romney calls himself a saint and believes that God lives on the planet Kolob. Oh, and Jesus will reappear in Jackson County, Missouri.

You morons. Romney's a fruitcake and an unrepentant fascist. Obama jukes this way and that to hide his fascism, but not Romney. He's going to be wearing the Russian General's hat and goosestepping his way into the state of the union speeches. You freakin morons.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 10:50 PM

"You morons. Romney's a fruitcake and an unrepentant fascist. Obama jukes this way and that to hide his fascism, but not Romney. He's going to be wearing the Russian General's hat and goosestepping his way into the state of the union speeches. You freakin morons."

So, tell us what to do oh wise one. Cut the chit chat and lay it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:10 PM

What to do?   Well, Bruce, what would you do if you were living in Germany in 1933 and the Nazis were busy firming up their new government and getting ready to pass some emergency legislation...to deal with issues like "homeland security"? Kind of like Bush and Obama have done in the last 12 years.

What would you do?

I'd get the hell out of Germany if I could. Or I'd hunker down and prepare for bad times ahead if I couldn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:13 PM

Fine and thank you, but my question was addressed to Songwronger.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:14 PM

Righto.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 11:16 PM

That sounded offensive and I didn't mean it to be, LH. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:18 AM

Hey, no problem. I was not offended.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:35 AM

I'll do better next time :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:47 AM

Shazpot, that was me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 08:08 AM

Stringsinger,

The 2nd was a WashPo editorial.

Did you even look at the election district map? THAT is what one gets when the Democraps steal elections. Makes TEXAS look fair, for God's sake!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 09:15 AM

No, wronger, it's not "all racism" but the entire Republican "Southern Strategy" revolves around racism and the "Southern Strategy" puts 12 states into the Republican column without having to work up a sweat...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 09:26 AM

Like Kat, I don't buy into the conspiracy. No doubt dirty tricks are pulled in elections .. just look at the TV ads. However, with voting I still believe in America and that the system works. They made a lot of changes to avoid the hanging chad shit


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 09:32 AM

Righto, B Bruce, ya mean stealing elections like Florida in 2000? Give it a rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 10:21 AM

Florida was rigged from the get-go... Greg Palast's book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" goes thru the extraordinary events that Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris cooked up to disenfranchise black voters before the election... Take that book and couple it with Alan Dershowitz's book "Supreme Injustice" it is apparent that not only was the 2000 election stolen but that the plans and contingency plans in place well before the election...

Also, it is a fact that Diebold who made/makes and operates voting machines in many states is a major Republican donor...

Conspiracy theories??? No... Facts??? Yes...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:06 PM

Greg F,

Since your comment does not address the point of my post ( the blatant gerrymandering under a Demcrap governor and legislature) I will remind all here that

YOU have stated that the statement

"is Black and a Democrat."

was the same thing to you as

"was a Dumb Ni--er"


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:09 PM

I think both parties cheat all the time...any way they possibly can. I think it's standard procedure. Since they both do it, they also both accuse the other of doing it...naturally! ;-) More standard procedure. In the end, the side that cheats most effectively, lies most effectively, and spends the most money most effectively is the one that will win....unless they've already completely trashed their reputation with the previous 4-8 years of idiocy in office, in which case they'll lose regardless of what they try to do. And...if the economy tanks just before the election, then the incumbent party WILL lose the election.

That was the position the Republicans were in in 2008, after 8 hideous years of George Bush.

Obama's position at present is not that vulnerable, however, so he stands a good chance of winning....unless the Repugs have bought out most of the companies that provide the vote-counting machines.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:10 PM

Rave on, Beardie - or conversely get the professional help you so desperately need.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:25 PM

Greg F.,

You may have the approval of the bigots here,but to tell someone not to discuss the topic of a thread is a little overboard, even for a lying scum-sucker like yourself.

Yet I know no-one who supports the side you are on will call you on it- they prove themselves to be a bigoted as you have demonstrated yourself to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:35 PM

Hey, BB, I'm on Greg's side...politically speaking...but I think the way he talks to other people on this forum (whenever he disagrees with them about something) is absolutely shameful. He's either got a serious anger management problem or he is just completely without respect for anyone who doesn't see something his way. Or both. It's a pathetic level of behaviour for an adult to demonstrate.

The reason I don't comment on it much is...

1. I don't think it would do any good. He's not gonna change!
2. I don't particulary want to draw his toxic nastiness in my own direction.

And now I have! ;-D Time to get out the iron umbrella and wait for the incoming mortar rounds and shit bombs.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: pdq
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 12:57 PM

about Greg F'ing Moron...

Greg's...I think the way he talks to other people on this forum (whenever he disagrees with them about something) is absolutely shameful. He's either got a serious anger management problem or he is just completely without respect for anyone who doesn't see something his way. Or both. It's a pathetic level of behaviour for an adult to demonstrate. ~ Little Hawk

At least someone has the cojones to say that.

How can there be discussion of serious issues with this little baffoon around?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 01:12 PM

BB, the Texas map was gerrymandered beyond recognition. Both side do something like this, but I saw your map and it had no explanation on that site.   As I mentioned before, the explanatory site was inaccessible (not found).

HuffPost has this article which I have retitled:

Kiss democracy goodbye.

"unless the Repugs have bought out most of the companies that provide the vote-counting machines."

LH, this is actually what the crooked GOP'ers have done.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Arkie
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 01:15 PM

Here is a link to the Alter-Net which I had never heard of until a few moments ago. It sure sounds plausible to me, but I have no verification. The link is to an article about GOP voter fraud. A bit confusing since the GOP has been promoting procedures to stop election fraud and have been unable to prove any instances of fraud in the past. And now there is proof and the GOP is ignoring it.

Scandal


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 01:28 PM

The problem with the optical scanners is that the count is run through machines which invalidate the point of paper ballots being accurate. A recount is really just a reprint after the flipping takes place.

Hackers can easily access the voting machines.

Here's something you all ought to pay attention to if you value your vote.

Hanky panky in Washington State


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 01:34 PM

Old Dude, there is no conspiracy here. No tin foil hats. This crap is going on now and if you want Romney in, I guess it doesn't matter to you. This applies to Kat as well.

You are both in denial if you think that the System isn't broken.

I'd call this "faith based" voting.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:13 PM

Want to be proactive on this issue?

Here's something you can do about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:23 PM

Fascinatimng, PeeDee & Little Hock- you read Beardie's eternal repeated postings full of "lying scum suckers" "bigoted assholes" & the like, and you feel HE's being put upon & take ME to task?

Fuck off, the both of ya. Or blow me. Your choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:55 PM

Well, there still is the issue of paper-less voting machines in many states... That is a formula for cheating... Here in NC the machines produce paper ballots, too...

As for "both sides" cheating, LH... Please provide one single documented case in the last 20 years... Just one, por favor... Even ACORN, after it was busted and defunded by the Republicans, was found to have engaged in no fraud that would have effected voting... Registering Donald Duck, for instance doesn't mean that Donal Duck will show up to vote nor that Donald Duck would be allowed to vote...

There is a mountain of evidence of Republican cheating, however, both material and circumstantial...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: olddude
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 03:48 PM

You know you are a hero to me Strings, I hope you are wrong on this


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:19 PM

Old Dude, I am a fan of yours and I hope I am wrong, too. I'm afraid that the evidence is coming out about the last two elections and it looks bad for voting machines.

Paper ballots that are optical scanned are no different than the e-voting machines. As long as a machine is involved in the electoral process, there's too much danger in corruption of the election. High tech hackers can come from both sides of the aisle.

it may be that the elections taking place in Iraq or Afghanistan are more honest than here in the U.S. Paper ballots are being used there.

One way around this problem might be Instant Runoff Voting which would give a third, fourth or fifth Party a chance. This would be more difficult to corrupt.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:41 PM

You don't have to be high tech.

You know how easy it is to palm one thumb drive for another?




Exit polling would reveal the abnormalities quickly but they were done away with by law under Bush.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:50 PM

It isn't stealing if you BUY the election is it?

Besides what do Billionaire financiers and trillionaire casino owners have in common with rigging electronic devices to give a desired response?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 12:56 PM

Ohio in the '04 election was stolen...

The exit polls were further from the final tabulation than in any state in any election\ going back as far as exit polls have been used...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Oct 12 - 02:01 PM

"Exit polling would reveal the abnormalities quickly but they were done away with by law under Bush."

I hope that statement was made TIC, because it is a ridiculous one.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:14 AM

Follow your own advice, Greg. Just imagine someone as rude and negative and mean-minded as yourself, and ask them to blow you or fuck off, then wait for them to do exactly the same kind of thing back to you, then respond in kind, and you could probably keep the mutual puerile insults rolling almost forever....just like a couple of 15 year-old kids fighting about something on Youtube.

And we adults meantime could discuss politics as adults do while you were busy fighting with your photographic negative.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

Actually, exit polling has been conducted by news organizations who, because of lack of revenues, have decided not to do them anymore...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:18 PM

This is because the news organizations have been corrupted, Bobert, they are owned by corporate robbers. This is even more evidence that this election will be stolen.
There is no transparency in this election to prevent election fraud by private companies who tally the votes, many owned by Romney cronies.

The only solution is that Obama could swamp the states making Ohio not relevant.
This is not likely unless Obama fixes the election also or has an actual landslide.

The system is broken and only an idiot can't see that. No transparency in the electoral process? WTF! Machines operated by "the man under the curtain" who doesn't want the public to know what's going on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 12:59 PM

Yes, Strings... And since their profits have gone down because of the inter net they have gone way to the right... And it's not just their editorials... It's their choice of what news to put out... They have been decidedly behind Romney all along...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 01:18 PM

Sadly enough, I think you're absolutely right, Stringsinger. As you say, the system is broken.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 01:42 PM

That's right, Hawk - nothing can be done, its hopeless, poor pitiful us, we'd better just go sit in the corner and whine.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bettynh
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 01:53 PM

I don't know where to say this, so I'll throw it out on this thread:

There's a possibility we could have Romney as president and Biden as vice president.

How?

The electoral college can be tied at 169 votes for each candidate.

If that happens, the president is elected by the House of Reps (assuming they keep majority, Romney). The vice president is elected by the Senate (if all's the same, Biden). Lots of ifs, but it could happen.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 02:35 PM

The "system" was never fit for purpose, it has been kept on the road by sleight of hand,manipulation, bribery, bare faced robbery and exploitation.

However the wheels seem to have finally fallen off, and they aint gonna be fixed.
The contradictions inherent in global capitalism have never been better illustrated.
Doesn't matter who the manager is ....Romney or Obama, we are about to pay for our greed and stupidity.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:02 PM

"Doesn't matter who the manager is ....Romney or Obama, we are about to pay for our greed and stupidity."

ake, what's this we sh**?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 04:36 PM

Just because I think the USA's 2-party political system is hopeless doesn't mean I'm hopeless about the whole rest of life, Greg. I'm not. So go find someone else to stalk.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 05:32 PM

Bottom line??? Yeah, we have some major systemic problems with our government but...

...electing backward thinking people who will inflict major damage on it ain't gonna make it easier to fix but harder because it will have new systemic problems heaped upon the old ones...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 05:53 PM

I suppose I should have said Romney or Obama, Cameron or Milliband?

I dont see much difference these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 06:47 PM

Greg...go find someone else to stalk.

Yo Stalk Hawk- stalking you? I don't even LIKE you. And this is the first one of your traditionally and terminally inane posts I've commented on in about 6 months.

So. Get a life. Or blow me, if you prefer.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:14 PM

Get real, Ake...

All yer doing is parroting LH's BS...

And you are both very, very wrong...

Maybe you think that a modern country outlawing abortion, and making birth control harder to get, is a good thing... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think that even more tax breaks for the rich is a great idea... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think that the regulations that were put in place on banks after the financial meltdown should be trashed... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think repealing the closest thing that we have to universal health car is a great idea... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think that the Koch brothers should be allowed, becasue they are rich, to poison our drinking water and pollute out air... I don't... Republicans do....

Maybe you think that tax dollars should go to re-segregate schools and be used for schools that indoctrinate kids with religious dogma... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think that the US should get into a war in Iran using patriotic BS slogans like "American Exceptionalism"... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think that our retired people's pensions (Social Security_ and health care (Medicare) should be privatized and turned over to "for-profit" insurance companies... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe yuo think that roads, sidewalks, fire protection, police protection should be privatized... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think there should not be any government agency that protects our environment or pushes education... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think it's okay to yell "You lie" at the president during a State of the Union Address or "Hang him" at Sarah Palin rallies... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think that voter suppression laws and voter intimidation is okay in yer book... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think it's perfectly fine for corporations to be elevated to person status opening doors for secret cash, both domestic and *foreign*, to buy elections... I don't... Republicans do...

Maybe you think shutting the Federal Reserve down is a great idea... I don't... Republicans do...

Man, I could go on for another hour, Ake...

Get yer head outta LH's posterior and accept the realities that we ***Americans*** are facing...

I am sick of your and LH's continuous ignorance of out realities...

There is a reason I don't comment on UK politics... Not will I... I don't fully understand your issues and your politics...

Get off the LH "Both Sides Express" mythology train...

Square business...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:21 PM

A solid YES vote for Bobert's views in this corner.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Oct 12 - 07:25 PM

Thanks, Eb... I guess I *was* due for a rant...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 10:02 AM

This is an excerpt from a book with no URL. Some of you might disagree but that's because you don't know what's going on.

********************************************************************************
Why Romney has already won this electronic election, unless…
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
October 26, 2012

Electronically, this election is over. Mitt Romney has won.
The big loser is not Barack Obama, or the corporate Democratic Party. It is democracy itself.
Unless YOU act now, and are prepared to fight this out for years to come, whatever remains of American democracy is done.

Finished.

Over.

No nation that suffers the theft of three out of four consecutive national elections can harbor the illusion that it is run by the will of its people.

Those who would have it otherwise must work from now to Election Day and beyond, to:

•        Check your registration -- millions of us need to confirm that we are still registered voters and haven't been purged from the polls. You can do this by checking with your county board of elections either by phone or online, or by contacting you secretary of state's office;

•        Occupy the polling sites – come out in droves on Election Day to guarantee that EVERY citizen can fairly vote. Make sure there is no voter intimidation or other repression of voting. Look for broken machines, proliferation of voters forced to vote provisionally, and other irregularities. If something happens to your vote, report it to us;

•        Document the vote count – help implement a national network of precinct-by-precinct monitoring systems to track as closely as possible the voter turnout as a check against the final tabulated electronic vote count. Take photos or video of the final precinct voting results posted at polling sites;

•        Stop voting machine rigging – Observe the polling stations to monitor which technicians come to "service" the electronic voting machines and how they do it. Take photos or video of them and their vehicles;

•        Gear up now for post-election legal and direct action strategies to resist an electronic tally almost certain to be rigged on election night in at least nine swing states...or however many it may take.

Though all the pieces are in place, the GOP theft is not inevitable. But the realities are harsh and demanding:

There are no meaningful, legally binding public checks and balances on the tabulation of votes cast electronically.

•        Exit polling has proven accurate to within 1% of the vote – the gold standard for detecting vote tampering in other countries such as Germany, which uses paper ballots. In the U.S., when exit polls don't match the vote count, there's no investigation into tampering. Exit polls are always "adjusted" late election night to conform to the ultimate "official" vote count, even though shifts in Ohio 2004 and elsewhere were virtually statistically impossible. This election, exit polling will not happen in 19 states.

•        Despite an almost total blackout from the corporate media, the Romney family has a personal ownership (through the investment firms Solamere and H.I.G. Capital) in Hart Intercivic, which owns, maintains, programs and will tabulate alleged votes on machines in the critical swing states of Ohio, Florida, Virginia and Colorado. Despite various official disclaimers, the election could be decided on Hart machines producing "vote counts" with little connection to how 18 million people actually voted.

•        It is inconceivable that the Romney chain of ownership in Hart Intercivic will not influence how that goes. The story has gotten widespread circulation on the internet, but has been ignored or dismissed by most of the corporate media and attacked by the Democratic Party. Petitions at Moveon.org and elsewhere call for a Department of Justice investigation. Tens of thousands of citizens have signed on. But there is no legally binding way by which a professionally rigged electronic vote count can be overturned or even definitively discovered except through the use of unabridged but legally inconsequential exit polling.

•        Scytl, a Barcelona-based e-voting company, has been contracted to count votes in 26 states through the easily rigged Federal Overseas Voting Program. FVAP is ostensibly geared to let military and other overseas Americans vote absentee by electronic means. But Scytl is positioned to intercept and redistribute such overseas electronic votes as needed through its spyware sister company, CarrierIQ. In a close race, these "votes" can be distributed at will to make the difference in critical swing states.

•        Other key voting machine companies, such as ES&S, Dominion, Command Central and more, are controlled by major corporations, some of whose owners are outspoken in their support for the Republican Party. Such support is reminiscent of Diebold owner Walden O'Dell, whose election software and machines helped give George W. Bush a second term in 2004, as O'Dell promised.

•        Republicans hold the governorships in the nine critical swing states of Florida, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, New Mexico and Arizona. They also hold the secretaries of state offices in all of those states but Wisconsin. Electronically flipping the vote count in any or all of them, with Hart Intercivic, Scytl, Dominion or other technologies, can be done quickly, simply and invisibly, with no public recourse.

•        The GOP's systematic "high-tech Jim and Juan Crow" disenfranchisement of millions of Americans continues to lengthen the odds against a Democratic victory, with millions of citizens being deprived of their right to vote. These voter ID and other laws have been focused on disenfranchising Hispanics, Hispanics, African-Americans and others suspected of leaning to the Democrats.

•        Though some of these laws have been turned back by the courts, Tea Party activists, True-the-Vote zealots and other Republicans will be at the polls to challenge voters they suspect of being likely Democrats. Many of these challenges will be illegal, but effective unless countered by the physical presence of election protection activists.

•        At least one Virginia GOP operative has already been arrested for destroying voter registration forms in a tactic that would deprive citizens of their right to vote, as reported at BradBlog.com. Also, there is a criminal prosecution underway in Florida over the destruction of voter registrations.

•        Republican-controlled election boards in Ohio are already deceiving potential voters with mailed misinformation about dates and locations for casting a vote. Such mailings were used throughout Ohio 2004 and elsewhere. Also, phone calls are being made to voters in order to mislead them on the day, time and location of voting.

There is much more. The idea that the Chamber of Commerce and the GOP's horde of billionaire backers would spend hundreds of millions of dollars to capture the White House and Congress but stop short of a few electronic key strokes is nonsensical.

Unfortunately, we cannot count on the Democratic Party to do much about this. Al Gore and John Kerry have said nothing about the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004. When the Free Press first broke many of the stories about the theft of the 2004 election, we were attacked first and most consistently by the Democratic Party, which hired a lawyer from the state's leading Republican law firm to attack our reporting.

This year the Free Press is coordinating an on-the-ground monitoring of the vote in Hamilton County, where the election could be decided on Romney's own Hart Intercivic machines. Please contact us at freepress.org if you'd like to help or contribute. casting a vote. Such mailings were used throughout Ohio 2004 and elsewhere. Also, phone calls are being made to voters in order to mislead them on the day, time and location of voting.

In the meantime, wherever you are, do all you can to turn the electronic tide. As Rev. Jesse Jackson has put it, "We can afford to lose an election. We can't afford to lose our democracy."

--

Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman have co-authored five books on election protection, including the new e-book WILL THE GOP STEAL AMERICA'S 2012 ELECTION? Freepress.org


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 10:42 AM

I found the URL for this article.

Hart Intercivic steals election


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 05:43 PM

And, oh, how interesting that Big Media now says it doesn't have enough money to conduct exit polling this time??? Remember Ohio in '04??? Ohio now has beach front on both coasts...

Banana republic...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 05:58 PM

Stop whining, people, and call or e-mail your friends, neighbors etc--esp. in VA, CO, OH, PA-, FL,NC,- -and young people everywhere in the US, and make sure they know what's at stake. Volunteer to drive people to the polls.    Point out to everybody that Romney spoke the truth once in this campaign---when he said he was writing off 47% of the electorate. And that his "caring" facade is just that--and an attempt (which so far appears successful--who knows why) to erase the "gender gap" which should have buried him.

And stop wasting everybody's time with pointless speculation on why Obama will lose--which he will not if the same people vote the same as in 2008---when Diebold, etc. had the same ties.

Though I have to admit you certainly produce a fine whine--Romney has taught you well.

As always, it's all about turnout.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 07:19 PM

Greg, this may come as a real shock...but...I have no desire to blow you. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 12 - 08:12 PM

I'll be working the early polls this week here in NC, Ron... I'm in touch with everything that is going on and sending what I can afford to various candidates around the country...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 05:03 AM

Bobert....thanks for that...   :0)

Trouble is, I dont see "party policies" in black and white.
There are some good things in conservative policies and some shockingly stupid things in "liberal" political thinking.

The problem is that both are constrained by this economic/social system, which means that whenever they are elected to power they tend to act in the same way....as slaves to the system.

We have experienced this in the UK with mr Blair's "New labour".
A supposedly centre left liberal, banging the drum for war, slavishly following the hated W....privatising everything that moved, continuing and "improving" the policies of his predecessor....Mrs Thatcher.

Politicians of all persuasions know that their future lies in the survival of the Capitalist system, regardless of the fact that it is a cyclical system and we in the West are on the down side of the wheel.

Unless we are prepared to write off at least two generations of our children, we must start to make some real change in the manner in which we are governed.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 10:02 AM

Fortunately, Ake, whereas as recent as the 2000 election the two parties were, as LH says, like two rival fraternities, that is not true anymore... The radical right has taken such extreme positions that there is now a clear difference on just about every issue out there...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 10:18 AM

Its all about getting elected Bobert, the radical right will be no more allowed to bring in exteme policies than the left will socialism.

There is only one thing of consequence to the powerbrokers.....the survival of the most insidious evil know to humanity .....corporate capitalism.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 10:41 AM

That's not true, Ake...

The first thing that the radical right would do is outlaw abortion... They would do that in their first 90 days if they had to power to do so... That is all but chiseled in stone...

The 2md thing they would do is repeal the Affordable Care Act...

Then they would turn their sights on the Big Prize: The New Deal...

Yup 1, 2, 3 and the US looks more like Somalia than the united States... I'm not just saying these things to scare people... This is what they salivate to do...

Number 4, of course will be more voter intimidation and supression legislation pushed thru to make sure they aren't ever again voted out of power after they do 1, 2 and 3...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 10:57 AM

Outlaw abortion?.....every govt outlaws abortion under certain circumstances.
In the UK it is 20? weeks after conception. It is not a simple issue, there are rights and wrongs on both sides.

Some say it should be left entirely to the mother, but for obvious reasons, that is not a viable option.
Others say that there should be some regulation to protect the life of the growing child......it is a huge,very complicated debate, not a knee jerk political issue.

and i say that to you Bob, with the greatest respect.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 12:15 PM

LH and Sohgwronger, you are displaying a lack of concern about democracy by making fun of an important issue that could change direction of this country. Voting machines can be easily hacked and corrupted. Here is an article by the Christian Science Monitor.

voting machines can be hacked easily

There's plenty more information to repair the ignorance of your responses.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 12:18 PM

Songwronger and LH, my apology to you for calling you ignorant. Written in the heat of anger.

There is plenty of information that can give you creditable info on this issue if you are open to it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 12:31 PM

Yes, Ohio in '04 allowed Bush ti steal a 2nd presidential election... The exit polls had Kerry winning... Hmmmmm????

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 01:14 PM

Here's some info from Harper's Magazine. You can get the full story in a copy.

How to rig an election


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 01:25 PM

f the betting in England is any indication on who will be in the White House for the next four years, we can expect President Obama to be re-elected.

Over 90 percent of the bets placed on the U.S. presidential election with English bookmaking giant William Hill over the past 24 hours have been for Obama, the largest being a £9,000 ($11,600) bet from a Coventry punter, better known as a bettor to all of us here in the States.

The furious onslaught of action on Obama led William Hill to adjust his favored odds from -225 to -250 (Bet $250 to win $100), while trying to attract more attention to Mitt Romney – the underdog – by increasing his odds from +175 to +200.

"Obama seems to be drawing ahead as the race reaches the final furlong, and punters are beginning to back him as though defeat is out of the question," said Hill's spokesman Graham Sharpe.

Obama had been as high as -700 before the debates. Romney impressed several political analysts in the first debate, which influenced the English betting line dramatically.

William Hill also has opened wagering on who will win the 2016 U.S. election, installing Romney as 9/2 favorite, with Hillary Clinton and Paul Ryan both at 7/1.

Wagering on political elections is not permitted in the state of Nevada.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 02:12 PM

Sign petition

Help democracy along here.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 02:12 PM

I fully agree that it's a vitally important issue, Stringsinger. Voting should be done with paper ballots, not with computers.

I'm pretty sure George Bush stole the 2004 election through voting fraud done by means of computerized voting machines, as Bobert has said in his last post regarding Ohio. The exit polls did not agree with the result. Kerry was winning, according to the exit polls.

What this amounts to is that the party which has the most friends amongst the big companies who provide the voting machines is the one strategically positioned to win the vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 02:33 PM

Right LH. Hand counted paper ballots, not machines are the only protection. Thanks for supporting.

This article shows how easy it is to hack these days.


Easy to hack SS numbers


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 09:55 PM

Thanks all you politicians...glad you're impressed with yourselves!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Amos
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 01:22 AM

Race/Topic   (Click to Sort)        Poll        Results        Spread
Ohio        Columbus Dispatch*        Obama 50, Romney 48        Obama +2
Pennsylvania        Tribune-Review/Susquehanna        Obama 47, Romney 47        Tie
Maine        Critical Insights        Obama 49, Romney 42        Obama +7

Saturday, November 03

Race/Topic   (Click to Sort)        Poll        Results        Spread
New Hampshire        WMUR/UNH        Obama 48, Romney 48        Tie
Iowa        Des Moines Register        Obama 47, Romney 42        Obama +5
Florida        TBT/Herald/Mason-Dixon        Romney 51, Obama 45        Romney +6
Florida        NBC/WSJ/Marist        Romney 47, Obama 49        Obama +2
Ohio        NBC/WSJ/Marist        Obama 51, Romney 45        Obama +6
Wisconsin        PPP (D)        Obama 51, Romney 48        Obama +3
Pennsylvania        PPP (D)        Obama 52, Romney 46        Obama +6
Michigan        PPP (D)        Obama 52, Romney 46        Obama +6
Minnesota        PPP (D)        Obama 53, Romney 45        Obama +8
Washington        PPP (D)        Obama 53, Romney 46        Obama +7
California        Field        Obama 54, Romney 39        Obama +15


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 11:26 AM

LH, the Chicago cheating may have happened but Kennedy would have won anyway.
The cheating is more rampant on the GOP side, however.

Don't trust the media polls and especially the main stream media which gets money through political ads stressing the fictional "horse race".

Remember that these polls are apt to fluctuate day by day.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 03:12 PM

I'm well aware that the cheating is more rampant on the Republican side. One thing that really stands out about Republicans is their utter ruthlessness in seeking a victory. They'll do or say absolutely anything.

Kind of like what Adolf Hitler said...something to this effect: In war, it doesn't matter who's right or wrong. Only one thing matters. Victory!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 05:50 PM

Ah yes, another election, another conspiracy theory--actually quite similar to the usual ones.

I thought this was interesting.    Of course I heard it on NPR, which as you know is a wholly owned subsidiary of Karl Rove.    I'm sure I read that on Mudcat, so it must be true.

At any rate, with that huge caveat, this is what the NPR report said about the OH conspiracy theory:




There are only 2 counties in all of Ohio which use the brand of election machine cited in the theory.

Both of those two use paper ballots also for the same votes.    Both parties were asked about the theory and their representative were clear that this is --yet another--self-manufactured nightmare of the Left.

I've also however looked into the OH situation myself.   There are grounds for suspecting that Romney might win OH--and grounds that he very likely will lose. Both with no tampering of votes whatsoever.

Pro-Romney

1)   As in 2004, the homosexual marriage issue will hurt the Democrats.   Despite the overwhelming support for it on Mudcat--Mudcatters really ought to get away from their own echo chamber--outside Mudcat, very few voters care about this issue.   Unfortunately, of those who do, the overwhelming majority is on the other side.   Evangelicals can and do have a visceral reaction to this--and will come out to vote on that basis--as they did in 2004. It is extremely unfortunate that Biden pushed the President into a corner on this--it would have been much better just left out of the campaign.

2)    In southern OH, coal country, Romney is making the pitch, that Obama--as indicated by the behavior of the EPA and his own pushing green energy-- is against the coal industry, and hence those jobs.

Pro Obama

It seems likely that for once, the 3rd party spoiler candidate is on the Right (somebody must have paid off Mr. Nader--or maybe he's writing a book). Gary Johnson, Libertarian, is likely to take at least 1% from Romney in OH. And that may well be enough.


In fact, all these factors are likely to play out in some other swing states--like PA and VA.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:01 PM

"...their representatives.." (despite #1 in the LH catechism, Republicans and Democrats are in fact different parties and therefore do have different spokesmen)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: pdq
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:05 PM

Obama can win in Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania and still lose the election.

Virginia, Nevada, Iowa, Wisconsin, Colorado and New Hampshire put Romney at 283 Electoral votes. 270, of course, is all it takes to win.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:17 PM

By the way, for those who actually want to help Obama, even at this late date--rather than whine-- you can call people in the swing states--and even do it without leaving your house. Living in MD, I've made over 100 calls to VA voters so far.   There's an online tool which gives you the numbers to call and suggested information to use. And the campaign is pushing this idea hard.   PM me if you want further information.

Supposedly there was a way to do it through Skype, but that system was not made clear.    But it's certainly a modest expenditure of time and money to do it yourself.

And it's almost as much fun as pointless hand-wringing ad nauseam on Mudcat.

But not quite, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:20 PM

VA, CO, NH, NV--none of them solid for Romney.

Particularly with a timely assist from Mr. Johnson--as I indicated.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:43 PM

What can not be disputed is that the Republicans have:

1. lived at the anti-government hitching post and pushed 3 decades of government hating which tends to make people say "Screw it, they are both the same... I ain't voting"... In other words, voter supression...

2, used every statehoues where they have a majority to pass voter suppression laws/voter intimidation laws...

3. have ownership of Big Media wrapped up...

4. are benefiting drastically from "Citizens United" over the Dems...

These are not even remotely arguable...

What it boils down to, without having to get into any conspiracy theories about voting machines, mail-outs to Latino voters threatening deportation of family members, etc, is that the Republicans have gamed the system to win/steal elections much better than the Dems over the last 30 years...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:50 PM

Sorry, Bobert.   "Big Media" is a term owned by LH.    Cannot be used without special permission--I'm sure his rates are reasonable.

But you must be be a member of the Leftist Pointless Jargon Society--I'm sure he'll tell you the dues, meeting times, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 06:57 PM

Sorry, I was wrong; it's the Leftist Meaningless Jargon Society. My apologies.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 07:02 PM

No need to apologize, Ron... I knew what you meant...

Actually, the "pointless forest" seems to be like a cancer and getting larger by the day...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 07:09 PM

Skype? I don't think that would be a good idea for most folkies I've met. Of course it might be different with American folkies, but I doubt it.
....................................

Big Media? What's your problem Ron? Surely that just means the same as what most pundits of all political persuasions mean when they say "the media" - except that it has the virtue of being more accurate, since, if you are being even minimally pedantic, "the media" properly includes the whole range of communication methods, including emails and phone calls. (You might disagree with various claims made about "the media"/"Big Media", but that's quite another matter.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 07:17 PM

Your personal animosity and your vendetta toward me, Ron, does you little credit.

I have repeatedly said that I much prefer the Democrats to the Republicans, I always have, and that I much prefer Obama to Romney. You never seem to notice or remember when I say things like that for some reason. Would it interfere in some way with your apparent need to personally attack me because our opinions don't always dovetail?

What sense is there in personally insulting people all the time just because they don't see something exactly the way you do? You insult me. You insult Bobert. You personally insult anyone at all who says anything you don't totally agree with. Why do you do it? What will it achieve, other than causing continual bad feelings between you and the various people you insult? Is that how adults should behave? I don't think so.

You can't work out anything worthwhile with anyone by continually verbally pissing on them and sneering at them, Ron. You know what that is? It's the tactics of a bully. It's mean, it's small-minded, it's bitter, it's the deliberate intent to emotionally hurt another person. On most moderated forums, you'd not even be allowed to keep doing it. They'd delete your posts or terminate your membership.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: number 6
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 08:07 PM

Ok ... my post is off topic to the subject of this thread ... but I'll rant here regardless .... I can't wait until this shtooopid U.S. election is over with and things will return to the norm (e.g. as it was before the election, regardless of who wins) and my Facebook page will cease to be polluted with all these never ending ridiculous pro Obama, and curse the Mitt posts from my American and yes even some of my Canadian contacts.

so there

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: pdq
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 08:35 PM

Nothing spoiled brats hate more than a real grownup.

Mitt Romney is a grownup.

After the election, the BS will continue.

Sorry, but you will have to get used to it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 08:53 PM

Mitt Romney the grown up???

No, he is a hot head... He is ill-tempered... He interrupts people... He is arrogant... He thinks of himself as the world's boss...

No thanks... I've had enough bosses... America doesn't need a boss ritght now... It needs a president... One who ain't gonna tell you to "shut the f up" like Romney all but says when real people try to ask him questions... The guy who asked Romney about corporation being people got the "Shut the f up" Romney response...

I don't want a president telling anyone to "Shut the f up"...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Nov 12 - 09:16 PM

Romney a grownup?

He's more of a fu*kup and a liar, and a childish one at that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 03:51 AM

You say Little Hawk's contributions are pointless, but there is nothing more pointless than burying your head in the sand and refusing to accept that something is badly wrong with the western economic and social system.

Something very bad is about to happen.....and I dont mean the election of Mr Romney.
Our living standards are about to take a massive hit....it has already stated in the UK, youth unemployment at a ridiculously high level, public services, savings, pensions and benefits under daily attack by our govt.

Regardless of which party is in power we are going to be much less well off and that always means under this system, that the poor are going to feel most of the pain.

I just wish, that instead of insulting others, you would take the time to examine what is being done to us all by a system which was supposed to provide everlasting growth.

It is not rocket science!......We are all going to be poorer, lets use that opportunity to really change society in a way that means we will no longer be "economic slaves"

UK and US politics is a game divised to protect a dicredited system, that used to be concealed from us......now it is right out in the open, but still the 99% are blind.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 04:26 AM

You're 100% right, ake.
So was Orwell.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 06:17 AM

Let us use votes so as to minimise harm. Votes for Republicans and conservatives are votes to enable the rich to hurt the rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 06:22 AM

That's right. I may vote Green Party this time.
Never for Republicans or Democrats.
=(:-( ))


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 06:37 AM

Rubbish Richard!.....look at the landslide of "liberal" votes which propelled Mr Blair to power.

An ego driven war criminal, a privatiser in chief, a dangerous "liberal" lunatic.

Other than that he was rather a nice chap.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 06:45 AM

The future will demand both conservative grit/ personal responsibility AND socialist compassion.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 06:50 AM

As an aside, my friends from the upper echelons of the Chicago Democrats are deeply disappointed in President Obama.
They say he failed to see or take on board the severity of the impending crisis.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 07:35 AM

He was overwhelmed with his newfound Miss Amerika status.
The First Negro President of the United States of Amerika!!!!
=(:-( O)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 07:41 AM

Then he just became overwhelmed.
=(:-( 0)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: bobad
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 09:29 AM

They're trying their damnedest in Ohio and Florida:

"A national disgrace: Partisan decisions in Ohio and Florida have forced voters to wait on line for hours before they can cast their ballots."

The Atlantic

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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: pdq
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 10:11 AM

The Atlantic should put a warning sticker on the cover that it is pure Democrat propoganda, cover to cover.

At least New Republic and most conservative magazines tell you what they are and do not attempt to pass themselves off as "news" or impartial opinion.

This is part of the Democrat plan to contest Florida, Ohio and a few other states in court as they did in 2000. They are building up the story ahead of time so that it will be no suprise. The have thousands of lawyer at the ready.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 10:28 AM

What you don't understand about paper ballots being used in Ohio counties is:
These ballots are not hand counted. They are machine counted and will come up
with the amount of votes that machine tallies. This can be tampered with and this
is no conspiracy theory. It's important that heads come out of the sand on this issue.

The New Republic has been a sell-out on issues for years.

The plan to contest Florida, Ohio and a few other states was only done after it was
established that the Republican crooks cheated by tampering with the machines.

"He was overwhelmed with his newfound Miss Amerika status.
The First Negro President of the United States of Amerika!!!!"

This is typical GOP racist crap and shows the real ugliness of that Party.

As for Romney and his arrogant son Tagg, they stand in the way of an honest election.

Obama would have to win by a landslide to overcome GOP crookedness and dirty tricks.
Do you honestly think that's going to happen? Get real.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Henry Krinkle
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 10:42 AM

I'm not a racist or Republican. I'm a misanthrope. And darned proud.
=(:-( D)


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 04:12 PM

""I have repeatedly said that I much prefer the Democrats to the Republicans, I always have, and that I much prefer Obama to Romney. You never seem to notice or remember when I say things like that for some reason.""

Could it be, LH, that your protestation is to a great extent nullified by the fact that you are trying to persuade everybody else that there is no difference between the parties?

With all possible respect, surely you can see that must lead to somewhat of a credibility gap.

Don T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Nov 12 - 04:22 PM

Misanthropes can make racist comments.

Of course there are differences between the two Parties but you would have to be an American citizen to understand this. The impact on health care is a case in point.
Under Obama, Medicare is being honored, not sold to Wall Street. Also, the expiration of the tax reduction among rich Republicans will happen under Obama. The crucial point is the selection of Supreme Court justices. If Romney gets in, goodbye Roe v. Wade. That's a huge difference impacting women and men.

Obama will not get rid of Planned Parenthood, a necessary adjunct to women's health.
As LH says, Obama is entirely preferable to slippery flip-flopping Romney who has no policy to help the many who are out of work or uninsured. His "plan" is bogus and the proof of this is he can't define in detail what it is. This is why he has to steal the election.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 04:06 PM

machine flips vote


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Nov 12 - 11:50 PM

And now, may we respectfully ask the illustrious OP and fellow giant intellects who subscribe to his theory just why their brilliant analysis did not pan out?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:26 AM

I'm happy to say that I was wrong; the people won out over the dissembling and cheating GOP'ers. The real winner was democracy over oligarchic ads by the cold Kochs and the mistake by the SCOTUS of unlimited spending, the so-called Citizen's United, and the quite provable flipping of votes in these machines.

The problem is still there. We need to go back to hand counted paper ballots that are transparent, done on site in order to have a full account of a fair democratic election.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:35 AM

Ron, watch the video of the voting machine flipping votes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:36 AM

Glad to hear you admit you were wrong. Now all you have to do is admit the thread was worse than totally worthless--because it encouraged people not to vote, since the election would be stolen anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 10:36 AM

Glad to hear you admit you were wrong. Now all you have to do is admit the thread was worse than totally worthless--because it encouraged people not to vote, since the election would be stolen anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:29 PM

Congratulations on your gold medal, Richard-- in Leaping To Conclusions.

See my post elsewhere on my personal voting experience--which, to be gentle, illustrates that perhaps you may not be eligible for any other Olympic event--such as thinking.

So sorry I have no more time to waste on you.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 12 - 09:43 PM

No one will ever know how big the Dem victory would have been had that long list of Repub voter suppression tricks not been in play...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Arkie
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:07 AM

Doesn't it seem ironic that Democrats emphasize getting people out to vote and Republicans put so much effort in restricting people from voting. Add to that every instance of voting fraud that I have seen reported was engineered by Republicans.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Nov 12 - 10:55 PM

There have been reports by each side accusing the other of fraud.   Lots of smoke, not much fire--to put it mildly.

It is certainly true that the GOP has been the one trying to restrict voting.   More suicidal behavior--since it alienates the young and growing blocs of voters.

Now is about the time for the start of a civil war in the GOP between those who recognize the self-destructive path the party is now on and the current "leadership."



Among other things, this is why immigration reform will definitely happen in the next 4 years--sooner rather than later.   There are in fact enough Republicans who realize the other option is political oblivion.


And there are conservative Hispanics who could be recruited by the GOP--if the immigration issue were eliminated


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 01:52 PM

I replied to your post about Danny Spillane from Rochester NY. If you want to contact me my email is catsinjammies@gmail.com.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:12 PM

It is perfectly obvious that this election was stolen. It was stolen by both Obama AND the GOP, workin' together in concert to deny democracy. How do I know this? Simple. I didn't win!

- Chongo


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:13 PM

Rachel Maddow on Obama's Re-election. The woman is a genius.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 02:22 PM

Rachel Maddow--RIGHT ON!!

Egad! There actually IS intelligent life on this planet!!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: bobad
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 03:18 PM

It's too bad that a large segment of the population will dismiss her and what she says as the ravings of a liberal, left wing, pinko, commie, socialist etc. etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 12:34 PM

The reason that the voter suppression by the GOP poll watchers and the crooked DRE
machines didn't work this time is because Obama's victory was a landslide despite what the misleading pundits and networks claim. The people overwhelmed the vote, many after Sandy, standing in line for hours because they realized that if Romney got in, they would be screwed.
This is particularly true for African-Americans, Latinos and Asians who will in future years comprise the major population of the U.S.

The Old White Boy network failed because the Rove's of the world were overwhelmed.

Still, elections are in jeopardy since they have been farmed out to corporations with no accountability. Other countries use paper ballots, hand counted at the precinct level to advantage over election fraud.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 01:50 PM

Landslide?    Not likely.   

Healthy margin in electoral votes.

Quite close in popular vote. What, 2 million or so difference? Point is, those votes were where they needed to be to have a large electoral effect.

Landslide only in the mind of someone who specializes in wishful thinking==and lurches madly from fear the election will be stolen to a conviction that "the people" overcame "the system".


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:00 PM

Actually, I think it is reasonable to conclude that it would have been a landslide absent the mostly failed voter suppression by the GOP.

How many people in poor and/or minority districts stood in line for hours, and then had to go to a job, or pick up the kids at school, and ended up not voting?

And it *was* an Obama landslide in the electoral college, and among women, blacks, and hispanics. Also a decisive win among asians. All tempered by a loss among white males (who generally did not have to wait in line and/or use provisional ballots, and who did not get mailers or telephone calls telling them the wrong place or time to vote, and did not have billboards on their streets warning them that attempting to vote could risk jail time) that made the popular vote *seem* close.

This is not the overall squeaker some are trying to portray.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 02:37 PM

Sorry, 125 or so difference in the electoral college is not a landslide.   Except, as I noted, to someone ruled by wishful thinking.   Landslide--try 1964, 1972.

And particularly not a landslide in popular vote.

People should be glad of the outcome--and honest enough to see it as it is--a healthy victory by Obama. I'm glad of it--I worked for him and was somewhat concerned it was not a slam-dunk.    There were arguments he might not win--starting with "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago?"

Agonizing about "landslide" is a pointless exercise par excellence.

And, this time, possibly likely to lead to arrogance on the part of the winners. Now is the time for the country to come together--not to manufacture fake "landslides" .


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 03:42 PM

"The GOP will steal the election"

Well if they did they did a pretty bad job of it! Sounds like someone is working overtime to spread their paranoia around.
"Those you fear in their presence, you hate in absence!"

Fuck..just focus on your music....no need to nurture any 'fear and loathing'..it's a big fucking waste of time and energy! Give them something positive!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 03:57 PM

With that in mind, I've just come in from a delightful hour spent on the front porch working on some fingerpicking. Stopped in for a brief look at the threads. I recommend more guitar playing. It does wonders for one's cheerful state of mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Nov 12 - 04:09 PM

A-fucking-MEN!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 01:23 AM

IF they are as bad at managing a nation as they are at stealing an election, it's just as well...


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 10:18 AM

Check again. Did I point out wishful thinking or facts?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 11:51 AM

As long as all sides agree the election--as it exactly happened--was a healthy victory for the President, but no landslide, there is no problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:25 PM

I will agree to that. With no precise definition of landlside (outside of Earth Science), it is not a useful discussion.

What is important is to battle the (largely right wing) notion that this was extremely close and therefore not-quite-legitimate.

So, I am happy with the characterization "healthy"...or "significant" (which has precise meaning in a scientific sense)...or "decisive"...or "unquestionable"...etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

Decisive, unquestionable, clear, significant--anybody with any sense should accept this. We don't expect Mr. Limbaugh, Mr. Boehner, etc. to do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 12:56 PM

Decisive, unquestionable, clear, significant...yes. A very significant victory. The fact that it was achieved during pretty tough economic times makes it all the more significant. In more prosperous economic times I think Obama would have won by a landslide. It's not that easy to get re-elected when the economy is still hurting badly. (though it did improve a bit in the last year)

One thing is clear. The nature of the electoral demographic in the USA is shifting, and that shift is beginning to deprive the Far Right of its strength at the polls. You can't win an election any longer by appealing only to angry old white men.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:34 PM

It's particularly remarkable that he won so resoundingly since the unemployment rate is, I believe, still 7.9%, after 4 years--and that does not even take into account those who have given up looking for work, and those who have new jobs which don't pay as well as the old.
That's why Romney's citing of the old question:   "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" seemed to carry such resonance. And Romney, was, shall we say, more than adequately financed.

But Obama and his team beat this whole negative cluster of facts.    It is really a stunning accomplishment--even taking into account Romney's missteps.





"Mitt's cronies.... Bain.... GOP will steal Ohio.   Husted and Kasich will make sure."    More flawless political analysis--based solidly on-- paranoia-- from one of our most reliable sources.   Just what we needed on a left-leaning site coming up to what looked like a close election.   As I said earlier, this thread is less than worthless, since anybody actually believing the thesis would be tempted to not vote---the election would be stolen anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 05:48 PM

The point that TIA made yesterday is, IMHO, accurate...

Had it not been for trickery on all levels by the Repubs the election would have been a landslide...

It bothers me to read that the folks who pumped hundreds of million$$$ into the GOP thru Citizens United didn't get a return on their investment... Or that, in spite of all the voter suppression and intimidation efforts, democracy prevailed...

No, had Citizen United and trickery not been in play than Obama would have won by 10 points, the Senate would be pushing a super majority and the Dems would have picked up another 10 or 20 seats in the House...

Citizens United and trickery is very much a threat to our future democracy...

Guitar pickin' is fun but doesn't change that reality...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:03 PM

Ron, I DO think the Republicans have been doing some well-organized cheating on the vote count in certain states in the past 3 or more elections...and that would NOT stop me from going out to vote against them if I were an American...it would redouble my determination to go out and vote against them.

Therefore, I don't regard sounding an alarm about it to be counterproductive for the American left. Quite the contrary.

Perhaps I am not so easily discouraged by reports of Republican vote fixing as you think I am. And perhaps that goes for many others also. It seems to me that anyone who suspects vote tampering has every reason to talk loud and long about it, just to alert other people and make them watch for any irregularities when they do go out to vote.

You can't make a problem go away by not even daring to talk about it publicly for fear it may "discourage" people.

I realize you are looking at that from a different argumentative angle, and the longer one defends any argument, the more one becomes loyal to it...but consider the angle I'm looking at it from. We both wanted the Republicans to lose, for gosh sakes! (and the fact that I have frequently criticized Obama's administration in the past 4 years doesn't change that one bit) I was horrified by the 8 years of Bush, and about equally horrified at the possibility of 4 or more years of Romney in the White House. I'd far rather have Obama in the White House, given the choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:18 PM

I'd rather have people like King and Sanders in Congress than most the folks who are there now. The country needs to elect more independents.

Half the Congress are millionaires. Like they can relate to Jane/John Doe, right?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 06:34 PM

Coulda shoulda woulda is pointless.   It was a clear victory by Obama.   Wrangling about whether it might have been a landslide with certain factors being different is-- besides being dubious, to say the least-- a stunningly stupid waste of time.   Perhaps you have the time--I actually think there are more important things to do--like raking leaves, or anything else. Even other threads are more worthwhile.

And my other point was that on an left-leaning site, you don't want people encouraged to sit home rather than fight what our resident Leftist oracles have declared to be a system you can't beat. Or encouraged to vote for the Greens etc.

Since the only way you can really fight against a deck stacked in favor of the GOP is to go out and vote--for Obama.   No thanks to the querulous old biddies who think otherwise.

So, yet again, this thread, with its smug defeatism, was worse than useless.

No surprise some of our resident giant intellects refuse to admit this. Situation normal.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:47 PM

A few years back a skydiver's parachute failed to open but he was fortunate to find a softer landing and lived...

With your logic, Ron, this guy would go skydiving next tine with no parachute...

Failed logic...

"Citizen's United", voter suppression and voter intimidation have a real chance of influencing/stealing future elections...

That is real is real can be...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 12 Nov 12 - 07:49 PM

"real as real can be"   So is deciding not to vote. So you don't want to encourage it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 11:03 AM

Well, the premise of this thread is bullshit. However, the notion that not voting somehow puts a person at the right hand of satan isn't much better.

I have a few times not voted. I was registered, went to the polling station, marred my ballot, signed my name and left.

Our countries need more independents. Like Ottawa does Canadians a favour by offering a choice between Conservatives and Liberals? Yeah, tell me another one.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:28 PM

The problem is that in this election either not voting or voting for anybody but Obama was equivalent to voting for Romney.    So anybody who was against Romney and had any sense would vote for Obama.   No other course of action made any sense.

We saw what happened when Leftists, in particular, tried another approach--in the 2000 election, for instance, and possibly again in 2004.    Any vote for Nader was equivalent to a vote for the GOP.

It would be a pleasant change if people on the Left stopped whining and started thinking.



It is certainly reasonable to point out problems with voting machines, suppression of votes, etc.

It is not reasonable, to put it mildly, to headline a thread on a left-leaning site "The GOP will steal the election".   It is in fact, for the n th time, stupid and defeatist-- for the reasons I and others have cited. You do not want to give anybody, especially some of the flaky Leftists who grace this site, any excuse for doing anything but voting for Obama, despite the fact, that--so sorry--- Obama is not perfect.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 05:51 PM

Aah. I agree with much of that, Ron. However, I think voting either Republican or Democrat in the next presidential election will be tantamount to suicide, because neither party really deserves the trust of American people. As I said earlier, the USA needs more independents to weaken the power of the two big parties and start to re-enfranchise the electorate. Half the congress are millionaires. They have NOTHING in common with average citizens, imo.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,roderick warner
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:20 PM

How's that GOP stealing the election vibe going?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:21 PM

LOLOL


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 12 - 06:58 PM

Ebbie I will always forgive for not knowing in the first place, but to convienently forget is the same as lieing. Which was it?
Perhaps I should not have said 'outlawed' within your earshot but the 20 year standing coalition of network exit polling was disbanded during the 'Bushapolypse'. The group had a name which I now forget.

Perhaps I should not have said Bushapolypse within...



What else, oh yes what little hawk said about 15 year olds.





While the GOP hoped to steal the election via changing voting laws to suppress the vote but it was all struck down by courts under the voting rights bill. Good work by the AG with so little time left.


now for the VERY Important thing that happened this week ...


The GOP may get their chance to steal in earnest since the Supreme Court has just this week decided to hear the case to abolish section 5 of the voting rights law which would allow states to use virtually any Jim Crow /Rube Goldberg rule or device to make sure only white property owners will have their votes counted. THIS BODES Poorly for at least 5 million democratic votes to be counted in the neo Confederate States in the near future and beyond.

Will this Bush court spend its last shred of legitimacy in rolling back the voting rights bill to help both the racists and corporate billionaires ???????

Or will they vote for democracy over corporate racist plutocracy?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 07:33 PM

"tantamount to suicide".    What will be tantamount to suicide is if people left of center vote for a third party, but people in the center and on the right vote GOP.    The brilliant minds who vote for the third party will be turning the US over to the Right.

It's called unilateral disarmament.   And, to put it mildly, not usually thought of as a good idea by anyone with any sense.





And Ake--you offer wonderful comic relief--you must be quoting from Lewis Carroll's latest book.   Be sure to tell us when you have something else to offer.

Some of us however prefer our political reporting from the non-fiction side of the bookstore.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Nov 12 - 11:09 PM

Sorry, its not Ake, it's Donuel--Lewis Carroll, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 10:44 AM

You're still buying into the two-party system, Ron. I think that's a mistake. Your mileage varies.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

I am willing to deal with reality. Some Mudcatters have a problem with reality.    This improves nothing.

Since the Civil War, no 3rd party in the US has done anything but hand the election to one of the 2 big parties. When a group left of center tries to start a new party, it's the Right that benefits.   A cold fact.

You're welcome to your own theories, but not your own facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:15 PM

I am willing to deal with reality. Some Mudcatters have a problem with reality.    This improves nothing.

Since the Civil War, no 3rd party in the US has done anything but hand the election to one of the 2 big parties. When a group left of center tries to start a new party, it's the Right that benefits.   A cold fact.

You're welcome to your own theories, but not your own facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:16 PM

Yeah, I know.   Only one post was necessary.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: cujimmy
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:43 PM

Looks like Mitt was right about one thing - he got 47% of the vote

serves him right
http://theweek.com/article/index/236741/irony-alert-mitt-romneys-final-vote-tally-nears-47-percent


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM

"Looks like Mitt was right about one thing - he got 47% of the vote"

Good I didn't bet on the numbers. Some months back on Mudcat I called for Obama 53% and Romney 46%. What can I say: shit happens.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 10:53 AM

C'mon people.    Ya gotta read a little more carefully.    "Mitt was right..."    Sorry, he did not say he would get 47% of the vote, but rather that 47% would definitely not vote for him, since that portion was hopelessly addicted to government help and unwilliing to help themselves.

Not exactly the most brilliant thing he could have said.   After all he only needed to lose another few percent to lose the election.   And he proceeded to do just that.

But good thing Obama's campaign thought more clearly than some Mudcatters.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 11:29 AM

"unwilling"


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 02:39 PM

Good!
Does it matter??
The powers that be, who corrupt both parties, makes it a non-issue. the corruption of our body politic has brought this country's morale down to where a lot of working folks figure, 'What's the use?'..now the 'left' will applaud that..not thinking that it's those same working folks that support the funds for the entitlements...and about everything else...except of course when the 'fed' prints more money, physically or digitally, and heaps the interests on the backs of those same working folks. Perhaps it's time to review the policies that let runaway programs and the 'Fed' dictate the worthlessness of our time and money. First one the list SHOULD be going after the powers that corrupt the system...but that won't happen..they will see to it that everything else should go down, except their stronghold on bilking us, and magnifying the divisions, to keep themselves safe!!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM

And maybe, Mr. Refugee from Sanity, you could just simmer down a bit. Or you could open a new business:   Purple Prose R Us.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 06:15 PM

Aw, Keep your shirt on...it ain't the first nor last time someone got their undies in a twist because I was right..it's just not that right is popular! Lies are more beneficial to whatever political group is pushing them!...(well, in the short term, that is!).

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 12 - 07:50 PM

Ron's undies are almost constantly in a twist about something, GfS. Get used to it. ;-)

Then there's Greg F., who is always snarling viciously at people across the pond and telling them to "blow" him or to "fuck off", just because he disagrees with their opinion about something...well, about anything actually. He makes Ron Davies look positively reasonable, kindly, and tolerant in comparison!

The funniest thing is, those two feud with each other too. Just one more chapter in the ongoing saga of the popular Mudcat soap opera..."Nasty Old Men Online".


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 01:41 PM

LH--you must have been looking in the mirror when you posted last.    Or maybe you're being properly vigilant since the use of " Purple Prose R Us" is a violation of your copyright.    Maybe you could just offer Mr. Refugee Trying To Get Away From Sanity a franchise in the business--since it does appear you did start it.    Sorry for not acknowledging that.    It's hard to keep track of all your copyrights---"Big Media", etc.   But it certainly is good your rates are reasonable.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:06 PM

Get a grip Ron, you may have a reasonable understanding of political theory, but wordsmith you are not.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 04:11 PM

" Just one more chapter in the ongoing saga of the popular Mudcat soap opera..."Nasty Old Men Online". "

Don't you think the most pathetic character in this tale is the one being nasty about people being nasty?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 12 - 06:07 PM

Thanks for the gratuitous personal attack, Hawk - you know, the kind you're always pissing and moaning about?

Which pond is that, Little, and which side? And my snarling is considerably more palatable than your constant smarming and relativism.

And Pharoah, Ron doesn't have a REASONABLE understanding of anything that I'm aware of - he is The Ultimate Authority On Everything.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 10:12 AM

Au contraire, Ake, the two posters I have cited have made an obvious attempt to corner the market on overblown assertions regarding politics.   It is a perfectly reasonable idea ---exaggeration? perish the thought--to portray this as a monopoly in the field. Admittedly on Mudcat this monopoly is not easy to defend, with so many other eager competitors. It would be much easier to start Sensible Ideas R Us, though very few posters seem to have any interest in even entering that market.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: sciencegeek
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 04:30 PM

finally did something I've put off for too dang long... posted to the White House Suggestion Box on Facebook...

I really don't go on Facebook much, but it was the first place I located where I can put in two cents worth & maybe have some small effect...


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Nov 12 - 06:05 PM

Simple Seeker - the only Sensible Persion on the Face of the Earth, the Voice of Reason, and the Ultimate Authority on Everything.

Whatta Guy!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:23 AM

Glad to see, Greg, that you've climbed out of the gutter, Who knows, perhaps you can stay out this time.

We can dream.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 11:47 AM

Which goddam frackin sumbitch gutter is that, Simple Seeker?

And why no words of wisdom to bestow upon us lesser beings?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:33 PM

As an outside observer, watching bickering, most of us don't care which is the bigger asshole. We care whether or not each individual is one. Its not like the parable of the bear where you simply have to outrun your opponent. It is more like the mud fight where both sides get dirty.


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 12:37 PM

Marvelous! ;-D You never fail to satisfy, gentlemen.

Tune in for more thrilling episodes of Nasty Old Men Online shortly! The program where cuttingly snide intellectual putdowns square off against crudely obscene invective and devastatingly personal criticism, and NO mercy is ever asked or given! It's much more fun than the festering feuds that have lingered on for years in your own neighborhood, and you can watch it all from the safety and comfort of your home office or rec room, courtesy of the miracle of the modern Internet.

Next riveting installment to air shortly!


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:01 PM

Yowzah! Whata buncha pointless ad hominem! Lemme have some facts and sound reason, please. Or at least something really funny. In any discourse, I want to be enlightened to a new outlook, educated to new information--yes that is a proud hallmark of Liberalism--or entertained. Rush does none of that, which is why I don't listen to him. And this thread, or at least the last part of it doesn't either. C'mon folks, please??

Saul


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 01:48 PM

Ron, Greg,

I don't pay close attention to your posts when either of you argue, so please excuse me if I got this wrong, but aren't you two usually on the same political side?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 02:52 PM

Nope Jack, not on the same political side at all - not even on the same planet.

Best,

Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 05:32 PM

Here in NC the Congressional delegation election was stolen...

We have 12 seats in the House of Representatives...

Dems represent 49% of the vote in NC but won only 2 of the 12 seats...

Gerrymandering is stealing...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Nov 12 - 10:32 PM

As I've noted, gerrymandering is done by both GOP and Democrats.    You need some incentive-some appeal to self-interest- to stop them from doing it.    Since it usually means safe seats for both parties, what will your incentive be?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:22 AM

"As I've noted, gerrymandering is done by both GOP and Democrats.    You need some incentive-some appeal to self-interest- to stop them from doing it.    Since it usually means safe seats for both parties, what will your incentive be? "

How about the Constitution of the United States of America? Plus the American Value of fairness?


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Subject: RE: BS: The GOP will steal the election
From: Amos
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 12:30 AM

Neither of those is a substantive incentive unless it can be parlayed into votes, influence or cash. Go figger.


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