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Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?

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Brian Peters 20 Mar 12 - 07:29 AM
Steve Gardham 20 Mar 12 - 12:26 PM
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John Minear 20 Mar 12 - 02:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 07:29 AM

"They were around, but were they known or buried in a manuscript somewhere?"

'The Twa Sisters' was in Anna Brown's repertoire, which gives us a 'sighting' in 1783. Given the subsequent popularity of the ballad, it would be remarkable if it had not been widespread in Scotland in the 18th century. Most of the North American variants, though, follow the 'Bow down' refrain pattern which I would associate more with England.

Re 'The Elfin Knight', does anyone (Steve?) know whether 'The Cambrick Shirt' appeared for the first time in the 1810 printing of 'Gammer Gurton's Garland' (as referenced by FJC), or the 1783 printing - as claimed in certain places on the web?

Bronson printed several 18th century tunes connected to 'The Elfin Knight' by the refrain 'My plaid awa', although he was cautious about making a definite connection bewteen these and Child 2.

I realise this is an obvious point but, since so few people were actually looking for ballads in the 18th century, it doesn't surprise to me that few were found in that period.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 12:26 PM

John
You should add in the 17thc broadside for No.20. which Child gave in a later vol. Are you working from the Loomis edition or the Dover or an earlier edition? If you're using Dover like me you should check the appendixes as well. It wouldn't take long.

There are lots of late 18thc garland versions of Captain Wedderburn's Courtship, mostly using the title 'Lord Roslin's Daughter' or similar.

I'm also pretty certain there are several printings of Young Beichan from the 18th century in garlands.

Brian,
I have access to a version of GGG but it's on a lengthy disc and may take some finding. I seem to remember there's at least one edition online, Goole Books or Gutenberg or one of the universities. I'll have a look anyway. The one I have access to is more likely to be the earlier edition.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 01:08 PM

Steve, I did find GGG online, but it was the 1810 edition.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 02:05 PM

Thanks for the corrections and suggestions, Brian & Steve. I'm working from the Dover addition at the moment. I had trouble using the online additions, so I'm back to my old paperback set. I am using the UVA site to print off the information that I am using. It is here:

http://xtf.lib.virginia.edu/xtf/view?docId=chadwyck_ep/uvaGenText/tei/chep_1.1504.xml;brand=default;

When I get through the whole business, I'll try to go back and clean some of this up with your suggestions. Thanks


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 02:14 PM

Here is the information from Vol. 2:

THE CHERRY-TREE CAROL—B
Husk, Songs of the Nativity, p. 59, from a Worcester broadside of the last century. b. Hone's Ancient Mysteries, p. 90, from various copies. c. Sylvester, A Garland of Christmas Carols, p. 45. d. Birmingham chap-book, of about 1843, in B. Harris Cowper's Apocryphal Gospels, p. xxxviii.

THE CARNAL AND THE CRANE
a. Sandys, Christmas Carols, p. 152, Christmastide, p. 246, from a broadside. b. Husk, Songs of the Nativity, p. 97, apparently from a Worcester broadside. c. Birmingham chap-book, of about 1843, in B. Harris Cowper's Apocryphal Gospels, p. xli. [Child says: "Mr Husk, who had access to a remarkably good collection of carols, afterwards unfortunately dispersed, had met with no copy of 'The Carnal and the Crane' of earlier date than the middle of the last century (1700)."]

DIVES AND LAZARUS—A
a. Sylvester, A Garland of Christmas Carols, p. 50, from an old Birmingham broadside. b. Husk, Songs of the Nativity, p. 94, from a Worcestershire broadside of the last century.

SIR PATRICK SPENS—A
a. Percy's Reliques, 1765, I, 71: "given from two MS. copies, transmitted from Scotland." b. Herd's Scots Songs, 1769, p. 243.
SIR PATRICK SPENS—B
Herd's MSS., II, 27, I, 49.
SIR PATRICK SPENS—H
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, III, 64, ed. 1803; I, 299, ed. 1833; "taken from two MS. copies, collated with several verses recited by the editor's friend, Robert Hamilton, Esq., Advocate." [Child says: "...H, was made up from two versions, the better of which was G, and five stanzas, 16-20, recited by Mr Hamilton, sheriff of Lanarkshire. Mr Hamilton is said to have got his fragment "from an old nurse, a retainer of the Gilkerscleugh family," when himself a boy, about the middle of the last century."]

SIR ALDINGAR—A
Percy MS., p. 68; Hales and Furnivall, I, 166. [1775]
SIR ALDINGAR—B
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, III, 51, 1803. Communicated to Scott by K. Williamson Burnet, of Monboddo, as written down from the recitation of an old woman, long in the service of the Arbuthnot family.

FAIR ANNIE—A
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 102, 1802, chiefly from the recitation of an old woman residing near Kirkhill, in West Lothian.
FAIR ANNIE—D
Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 307.
FAIR ANNIE—E
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 20; Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 371. [1783]

CHILD WATERS—A
Percy MS., p. 274; Hales and Furnivall, II, 269.
CHILD WATERS—B
a. Jamieson's Brown MS., fol. 22, taken down from Mrs Brown's recitation before 1783. b. A. Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 9, as recited by Mrs Brown in 1800.
CHILD WATERS—E
Harris MS., No 8, fol. 12 b: originally from Jannie Scott, an old nurse in Perthshire, about 1790.

FAIR JANET—C
Herd's Scots Songs, 1769, p. 303: I, 162, ed. 1776.

LADY MAISRY—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 24.

LORD INGRAM AND CHIEL WYET—C
Herd's MSS, I, 169, II, 84. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 265.

GLASGERION—A
Percy MS., p. 94; Hales and Furnivall, I, 248. [1765]

YOUNG HUNTING—A
a. Herd's MSS, I, 182; b. the same, II, 67.
YOUNG HUNTING—G
Herd's MSS, I, 34; Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 148.
YOUNG HUNTING—J
Scott's Minstrelsy, II, 42, 1802, and III, 184, 1833, from Herd's copies (A, G), and from tradition.

CLERK SAUNDERS—A
Herd's MSS, a, I, 177; b, II, 419.
CLERK SAUNDERS—B
Herd's MSS, a, I, 163; b, II, 46.

WILLIE AND LADY MAISRY—A
Motherwell's MS., p. 498; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 370. From the recitation of Mrs Notman, then far advanced in years, with whose grandmother it was a favorite: September 9, 1826.

LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—A
Percy's Reliques, 1765, II, 293, "given, with some corrections, from a MS. copy transmitted from Scotland."
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—D
Pepys Ballads, III, 316, No 312. b. A Collection of Old Ballads, I, 249, 1723. c. Ritson, Select Collection of English Songs, II, 187, 1783. d. Buchan's Gleanings, p. 86. e, f, g, h, i, recited copies.

FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM—A
Douce Ballads, I, fol. 72. b. Ritson, A Select Collection of English Songs, 1783, II, 190. c. Percy's Reliques, 1765, III, 121. d. Percy's Reliques, 1767, III, 119.
FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM—B
Communicated to Percy by the Dean of Derry, as written down from memory by his mother, Mrs Bernard; February, 1776.
FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM—C
Communicated to Percy by Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, April 7, 1770.

LORD LOVEL—A
Percy Papers, communicated by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, from singing; May 22, 1770, and April 19, 1775.

THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—A
Cochrane's Songbook, p. 151, No 114.

THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—B
Herd's MS, I, 144; II, 60, the first ten lines; Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 149.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—D
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 27; Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 36.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—E
a. Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 2, written down from Mrs Brown's recitation in 1800. b. Scott's Minstrelsy, II, 49, 1802.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—F
Herd MS., I, 31, II, 65.

SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST—A
Ramsay's Tea Table Miscellany, "4th volume, 1740;" here from the London edition of 1763, p. 324.
SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST—B
Herd's MSS, I, 177, II, 49, stanzas 27 ff.

THE WIFE OF USHER'S WELL—A
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 111, 1802, from the recitation of an old woman residing near Kirkhill, in West Lothian.

OLD ROBIN OF PORTINGALE
Percy MS., p. 90; Hales and Furnivall, I, 235.

LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—A
Wit Restord, 1658, in the reprint 'Facetiæ,' London, 1817, I, 293. b. Wit and Drollery, 1682, p. 81.
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—B
Percy MS., p. 53, Hales and Furnivall, I, 119.
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—C
a. Pepys Ballads, I, 364, No 187. b. Pepys Ballads, III, 314, No 310. c. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 146. d. Roxburge Ballads, III, 340. e. Bagford Ballads, I, 36.

THE BONNY BIRDY
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 42; Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 162.

CHILD MAURICE—A
Percy MS., p. 346; Hales and Furnivall, II, 502.


CHILD MAURICE—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 255; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 282. From the singing of Widow McCormick, Paisley, January 19, 1825. Learned by her of an old woman in Dumbarton: Motherwell's Note Book, fol. 4.
CHILD MAURICE—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 510, from the singing of Mrs Storie, wife of William Storie, laborer, Lochwinnoch. A song of Mrs Storie's grandmother. [See Child's end notes for this ballad]
CHILD MAURICE—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 480, from the recitation of Widow Michael, a very old woman, as learned by her in Banffshire seventy years before. August, 1826. [Child's notes]
CHILD MAURICE—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 165; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 269. From the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, seventy years of age, as learned from her mother at the Water of Leven, Dumbarton, when she was ten years old. March, 1825. [Child's notes]
CHILD MAURICE—F
Percy's Reliques, III, 93, 1765. b. Letter of T. Gray to Mason, June, 1757 (?): Gray's Works, ed. Gosse, II, 316.
CHILD MAURICE—G
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 18; Jamieson, in The Scots Magazine, 1803, LXV, 698, stanzas 1, 3.

BONNY BARBARA ALLAN—A
a. The Tea-Table Miscellany, IV, 46, ed. 1740; here from the London edition of 1763, p. 343. b. Percy's Reliques, III, 131, ed. 1765, "with a few conjectural emendations from a written copy."
BONNY BARBARA ALLAN—B
a. Roxburghe Ballads, II, 25; reprint of the Ballad Society, III, 433. b. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 522. c. A broadside formerly belonging to Bishop Percy. d. Percy's Reliques, 1765, III, 125.

YOUNG JOHNSTONE—A
Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 305.

FAUSE FOODRAGE—A
Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 3.
FAUSE FOODRAGE—C
Harris MS., No 18, fol. 22: derived from Jannie Scott, an old Perthshire nurse, about 1790.

JELLON GRAME—A
a. A. Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 4. b. Scott's Minatrelsy, II, 20, 1802.

FAIR MARY OF WALLINGTON—A
Lovely Jenny's Garland, three copies, as early as 1775, but without place or date.
FAIR MARY OF WALLINGTON—B
Herd's MSS: a, I, 186; b, II, 89.
FAIR MARY OF WALLINGTON—C
Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 5.

BONNY BEE HOM—A
Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 6.

LAMKIN—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 176, communicated by Mrs Brown.
LAMKIN—F
a. Notes and Queries, Second Series, II, 324, as sung by a nurse nearly a century ago [1856] in Northumberland. b. Notes and Queries, Fourth Series, II, p. 281, from Northamptonshire, communicated by Mr B. H. Cowper.
LAMKIN—K
Communicated to Percy by Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, near Ashford, Kent, April 19, 1775.
LAMKIN—P
Herd's MSS, I, 25.

YOUNG WATERS
Percy's Reliques, 1765, II, 172.

THE MAID FREED FROM THE GALLOWS—A
Communicated to Percy, April 7, 1770, by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wey, from oral tradition.

THE GAY GOSHAWK—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., No 6, pt 15.
THE GAY GOSHAWK—E
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 7, 1802; III, 151, 1833.

BROWN ROBIN—A
a. Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 37. b. Abbotsford MS., "Scottish Songs."

BROWN ADAM—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 17.
JOHNIE SCOT—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 5.

WILLIE O WINSBURY—B
Herd's MSS, I, 29; II, 98.
WILLIE O WINSBURY—D
Communicated to Percy by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wey, apparently in 1775. "This I had from the spinning-wheel."

WILLIE O DOUGLAS DALE—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 8.

WILLIE AND EARL RICHARD'S DAUGHTER—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 44, from Mrs Brown's recitation.

ROSE THE RED AND WHITE LILY—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 1.

THE BAILIFF'S DAUGHTER OF ISLINGTON
Printed for P. Brooksby, Roxburghe Ballads, II, 457. b. Printed for J. Walter, Douce Ballads, II, fol. 229. c. Printed for P. Brooksby, Pepys Ballads, III, 258, No 256. d. Printed for P. Brooksby, Roxburghe Ballads, IV, 56. e. Printed for P. Brooksby, Douce Ballads, II, fol. 230. f. An Aldermary Churchyard copy.

THE FAMOUS FLOWER OF SERVING-MEN
Wood, E. 25, fol. 75, Bodleian Library. b. Pepys, III, 142, No 140, Magdalen College Library, Cambridge. c. A Collection of Old Ballads, I, 216, 1723.

WILL STEWART AND JOHN—A
Percy MS., p. 428; Hales and Furnivall, III, 216.

CHRISTOPHER WHITE
Percy MS., p. 513; Hales and Furnivall, III, 494.

TOM POTTS—A
Percy MS., p. 409; Hales and Furnivall, III, 135.
TOM POTTS—B
a. London, printed for F. Coles, and others, 1677, Bodleian Library, Wood, 259. b. Pepys Penny Merriments, I, 189, Magdalen College Library, Cambridge.
TOM POTTS—C
A white letter sheet in five columns, "published May 29, 1657," The King's Pamphlets, British Museum, 669, f. 20, 55.

THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—A
a. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 160, 161. b. The same, II, 30, 31. [1765]
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—K
Motherwell's MS., p. 226. From the recitation of Widow McCormick, Westbrae, Paisley, 1825; learned of an old woman in Dumbarton, thirty or forty years before.

CROW AND PIE
MS. Rawlinson, C. 813, fol. 27 b, beginning of the sixteenth century. Halliwell's Nugæ Poeticæ, p. 42.

THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—A
Ravenscroft's Deuteromelia, or, The Second Part of Musick's Melodie, or Melodious Musicke, etc., E 4, London, 1609. Ritson's Ancient Songs, 1790, p. 159. b. Pills to Purge Melancholy, III, 37, 1719.
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—B
Pills to Purge Melancholy, V, 112, 1719.
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—C
a. A Collection of Old Ballads, III, 178, 1725. b. Pepys Ballads, V, 169 ff, Nos 162-164, end of the 17th century, the first fifty stanzas. c. Douce Ballads, III, fol. 52 b, Durham: Printed and sold by I. Lane. d. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 674, 1750 (?).
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—D
a. Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots, p. 328, 1769. b. Dixon, Ancient Poems, Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England, p. 123, Percy Society, vol. xvii; Bell, p. 80.

A few additions:

THE LAIDLEY WORM from The Rev. Robert Lambe to Percy, January 29, 1766
THE LAIDLEY WORM/"THE HAGG WORM" (Additions & Corrections) from Capt. E. Grow, from "an old woman" (1775?)

As you can see, I have included a few 19th century references when they mention "really old" people as sources, if the math seems to work. I may have missed some of these and confused others. I am not familiar with any of the sources that Child is dealing with here, and I am going strictly from his information. Please forgive and correct any really gross errors and colossal stupidities! And please continue to correct other errors and feel free to make helpful suggestions.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 07:44 PM

Except for a handful I wouldn't bother dealing separately with the RH ballads as they all appeared together in the various RH Garlands from the middle of the 17th century right into the middle of the 18th and then at the end of the 18th appeared separately on upmarket broadsheets printed by the likes of Lawrie and Whittle.

It might be worth including the reference to Pepys having heard Barbara Allen sung in the theatre in the 17th century.

It would appear that Child had access to the Percy Mss. I wonder why they were never published.

Keep em coming, John.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 05:17 AM

Brian & John
I have access to 2 editions of GGG. The earlier definitely contains The Cambrick Shirt on p11. This edition is undated but was printed by and for R Christopher. It must be c1796 because there's a lot of rhymes added at the back by either Ritson or Douce in 1796. The other edition was printed by Christopher and Jennet of Stockton.

However, in Roy Palmer's 'Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams' at page 31, Roy says 'The first appearance in print of 'The Cambric Shirt' was in GGG (1784).' The ODNR also backs this up.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 05:52 AM

Thanks Steve. Finding evidence of 'Cambric Shirt' in oral tradition in the 18th century could be siginificant. The North American strain of Child 2 seems to consists entirely of 'Cambric Shirt' variants - I'm not aware of 'The Elfin Knight' strain having made it's way over there...

Wrong again! There's one on Richie's site: a 'Blow, blow' version from Phillips Barry. Just the one, though, as far as I can see.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 10:21 AM

Here is the material from Vol 3 (Dover) from THE ENGLISH AND SCOTTISH POPULAR BALLADS, edited by Francis James Child:

-------------------------------
JOHNIE COCK—A
Communicated to Percy by Miss Fisher, of Carlisle, 1780, No 5 of MS.

ROBYN AND GANDELEYN
Sloane MS., 2593, fol. 14 b, British Museum. [Ritson, Ancient Songs, 1790]

ADAM BELL, CLIM OF THE CLOUGH, AND WILLIAM OF CLOUDESLY
a. Two fragments, stanzas 113-128, 161-170, of an edition by John Byddell, London, 1536: Library of the University of Cambridge.
b. A fragment, stanzas 53-111, by a printer not identified: formerly in the possession of J. Payne Collier.
c. 'Adambel, Clym of the cloughe, and Wyllyam of cloudesle,' William Copeland, London [1548-68]: British Museum, C. 21, c. 64.
d. 'Adam Bell, Clim of the Clough, and William of Cloudesle,' James Roberts, London, 1605: Bodleian Library, C. 39, Art. Selden.
e. Another edition with the same title-page: Bodleian Library, Malone, 299.
'Adam Bell, Clime of the Cloug[he], and William off Cloudeslee,' Percy MS., p. 390: British Museum. Hales and Furnivall, III, 76.
-----------------------
For now, I skipping the Robin Hood ballads. Most of them were available in the 18th century. (See Steve Gardham's note.)
-----------------------

SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 151, as taken down by the editor from Mrs Brown's recitation.
SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—B
Percy's Reliques, I, 32, 1765; from a manuscript copy sent from Scotland.
SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—C
Percy papers; communicated to Percy by Paton, in 1768 or 69, and derived from a friend of Paton's.
SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—D
Herd's MS., I, 213; stanzas 7-10, II, 219.

QUEEN ELEANOR'S CONFESSION—A
a. A broadside, London, Printed for C. Bates, at the Sun & Bible in Gilt-spur-street, near Pye-corner, Bagford Ballads, II, No 26, 1685? b. A broadside, Printed for C. Bates, in Pye-corner, Bagford Ballads, I, No 33, 1685? c. Another copy of b, reprinted in Utterson's Little Book of Ballads, p. 22. d. A Collection of Old Ballads, 1723, I, 18.

GUDE WALLACE—A
A chap-book of Four New Songs and a Prophecy, 1745? The Scots Musical Museum, 1853, D. Laing's additions, IV, 458; Maidment, Scotish Ballads and Songs, 1859, p. 83.
GUDE WALLACE—B
Communicated to Percy by R. Lambe, of Norham, apparently in 1768.

HUGH SPENCER'S FEATS IN FRANCE—A
Percy MS., p. 281; Hales and Furnivall, II, 290.
HUGH SPENCER'S FEATS IN FRANCE—B
Percy Papers: communicated by the Duchess Dowager of Portland.

DURHAM FIELD
Percy MS., p. 245; Hales and Furnivall, II, 190.

THE BATTLE OF OTTERBURN—A
a. Cotton MS. Cleopatra, C. iv, leaf 64, of about 1550. b. Harleian MS. 293, leaf 52. [Percy, 1794, 1765]
THE BATTLE OF OTTERBURN—B
a. Herd's MS., I, 149, II, 30; Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 153. b. Scott's Minstrelsy, I, 31, 1802, "corrected" from Herd, 1776, "by a MS. copy."

THE HUNTING OF THE CHEVIOT—A
MS. Ashmole, 48, Bodleian Library, in Skeat's Specimens of English Literature, 1394-1579, ed. 1880, p. 67. [Percy 1765]
THE HUNTING OF THE CHEVIOT—B Chevy Chase
a. Percy MS., p. 188, Hales and Furnivall, II, 7. b. Pepys Ballads, I, 92, No 45, broadside printed for M. G. c. Douce Ballads, fol. 27b, and Roxburghe Ballads, III, 66, broadside printed for F. Coles, T. Vere, and J. Wright. d. Wood's Ballads, 401, 48, broadside printed for F. Coles, T. Vere, and W. Gilbertson. e. Bagford Ballads, I, No 32, broadside printed by and for W. Onley. f. A Scottish. copy, without printer.

KING HENRY FIFTH'S CONQUEST OF FRANCE
a-d, broadsides. a. Among Percy's papers. b. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 358. c. Jewitt's Ballads and Songs of Derbyshire, p. 1. d. Chetham's Library, Manchester, in Hales and Furnivall, Percy's Folio MS., II, 597. e. Percy papers, "taken down from memory." f. Nicolas, History of the Battle of Agincourt, 1832, Appendix, p. 78, from the recitation of a very aged person. g. The same, p. 80, source not mentioned. h. Tyler, Henry of Monmouth, II, 197, apparently from memory. i. Percy Society, XVII, Dixon, Ancient Poems, etc., p. 52, from singing. j. Skene MS., p. 42. k. Macmath MS., p. 27, from tradition. 1, m. Buchan's MSS, I, 176, II, 124, probably broadside or stall copies.

SIR JOHN BUTLER
Percy MS., p. 427; Hales and Furnivall, III, 205.

THE ROSE OF ENGLANDE
Percy MS., p. 423; Hales and Furnivall, III, 187.

SIR ANDREW BARTON—A
Percy MS., p. 490; Hales and Furnivall, III, 399. [Child says: "Given in Old Ballads, 1723, 159; in Percy's Reliques, 1765, II, ...Ritson's Select Colelction of English Songs, 1783, I...."]
SIR ANDREW BARTON—B
Douce Ballads, I, 18 b. b. Pepys Ballads, I, 484, No 249. c. Wood Ballads, 401, 55. d. Roxburghe Ballads, I, 2. e. Bagford Ballads, 643, m. 9 (61). f. Bagford Ballads, 643, m. 10 (77). g. Wood Ballads, 402, 37. h. Glenriddell MSS, XI, 20.

FLODDEN FIELD
From Deloney's Pleasant History of John Winchcomb, in his younger yeares called Jacke of Newberie, etc., London, 1633; reprinted by J. O. Halliwell, London, 1859, p. 48. [Ritson, 1790]

JOHNIE ARMSTRONG—A
a. Wit Restord in severall Select Poems not formerly publisht, London, 1658, p. 30, in Facetiæ, London, 1871, I, 132.
Wit and Drollery, London, 1682, p. 57. [Dryden 1716,]

JOHNIE ARMSTRONG—B
a. Wood, 401, fol. 93 b, London, printed for Francis Grove (1620-55?).
b. Pepys, II, 133, No 117, London, printed for W. Thackeray and T. Passenger (1660-82?). [Evans, 1777, Ritson, 1783 & 1794, Herd 1769, 1776]
A Collection of Old Ballads, 1723, I, 170.
JOHNIE ARMSTRONG—C
Allan Ramsay, The Ever Green, II, 190, "copied from a gentleman's mouth of the name of Armstrang, who is the 6th generation from this John."

THE DEATH OF QUEEN JANE—A
Communicated to Percy by the Dean of Derry, as written from memory by his mother, Mrs. Bernard, February, 1776.
THE DEATH OF QUEEN JANE—C
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 182; "from two fragments, one transmitted from Arbroath and another from Edinburgh." b. Herd's MSS, I, 103.

THOMAS CROMWELL
Percy MS., p. 55; Hales and Furnivall, I, 129.

MUSSELBURGH FIELD
'Musleboorrowe ffeild,' Percy MS., p. 54; Hales and Furnivall, I, 123.

MARY HAMILTON—R
Burns, in a letter to Mrs Dunlop, January 25, 1790; Currie, II, 290, 1800.

EARL BOTHWELL
Percy MS., p. 272; Hales and Furnivall, II, 260.

THE RISING IN THE NORTH
Percy MS., p. 256; Hales and Furnivall, II, 210.

NORTHUMBERLAND BETRAYED BY DOUGLAS
Percy MS., p. 259; Hales and Furnivall, II, 217.

CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—A
Cotton MS. Vespasian, A. xxv, No 67, fol. 187 of the last quarter of the 16th century, British Museum; ritson's ancient song, 1790, p 137; ...; Furnivall, in Transactions of the New Shakspere Society, 1880-86, Appendix, p. 52.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—B
Percy MS., p. 34; hales and Furnivall, I, 79.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—C
Communicated to Percy by Robert Lambe, Norham, October 4, 1766, being all that a servant of Lambe's could remember.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—D
Robert and Andrew Foulis, Glasgow, 1755; "as preserved in the memory of a lady."

ROOKHOPE RYDE
The Bishopric Garland, or Durham Minstrel [edited by Joseph Ritson], 2d ed., Newcastle, 1792; here, from the reprint by Joseph Haslewood, 1809, p. 54, in Northern Garlands, London, 1810. "Taken down from the chanting of George Collingood the elder, late of Boltsburn, in the neighborhood of Ryhope," who died in 1785.

KING JAMES AND BROWN
Percy MS., p. 58; Hales and Furnivall, I, 135.

THE BONNY EARL OF MURRAY—A
Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany, 1763, p. 356. [Percy 1765, Herd 1769, Riston 1794]

THE LAIRD O LOGIE—B
Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 240.

THE LADS OF WAMPHRAY
Glenriddell MSS, XI, 34, 1791.

DICK O THE COW
'An excelent old song cald Dick of the Cow.' Percy Papers, 1775. b. Caw's Poetical Museum, p. 22, 1784. c. Campbell, Albyn's Anthology, II, 31, 1818.

JOCK O THE SIDE—A
Percy MS., p. 254; Hales and Furnivall, II, 203.
JOCK O THE SIDE—B
a. Caw's Poetical Museum, 1784, p. 145; "from an old manuscript copy." b. Campbell's Albyn's Anthology, II, 28; "taken down from the recitation of Mr Thomas Shortreed," of Jedburgh, "who learnt it from his father."
JOCK O THE SIDE—C
Percy Papers. "The imperfect copy sent me from Keelder, as collected from the memory of an old person by Mr William Hadley, in 1775."
JOCK O THE SIDE—D
Percy Papers. "These are scraps of the old song repeated to me by Mr Leadbeater, from the neighborhood of Hexham, 1774."

ARCHIE O CAWFIELD—A
Communicated to Percy by Miss Fisher of Carlisle, 1780.
ARCHIE O CAWFIELD—B
a. Glenriddell MSS, XI, 14, 1791, "an old West Border ballad." b. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1833, II, 116.


---Additions
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL/"THE LASS OF OCRAM"
"There is a version of this ballad in the Roxburghe collection, III, 488, a folio slip without imprint, dated in teh Museum Catalogue 1740....Mr Ebsworth in the Roxburghe Ballads, VI 609...puts the date of issue circa 1765"
--
Also, check out LAMKIN - P
Child says: "The negroes of Dumfries, Prince William County, Virginia, have this ballad, orally transmitted from the original Scottish settlers of that region, with the stanza found in F (19) and T (14):
        Mr Lammikin, Mr Lammikin,
        oh, spare me my life,
        And I'll give you my daughter Betsy,
        And she shall be your wife.
"They sang it to a monotonous measure." (Mrs. Dulany)"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 04:36 PM

One interesting fact that this survey is throwing up is the small number that survived in oral tradition in any significant numbers into the 19th century.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 05:19 PM

Steve, when I get through with this listing of Child's ballads documented in the 18th century, I'll have some questions about "oral tradition" and broadsides.

Here is the material from Vol 4:

HOBIE NOBLE
Caw's Poetical Museum, p. 193. b. 'Hobie Noble,' Percy Papers.

HUGHIE GRAME—A
a. Roxburghe Ballads, II, 294. b. Douce Ballads, II, 204 b. c. Rawlinson Ballads, 566, fol. 9. All printed for P. Brooksby: 1672-95(?). d. Pills to purge Melancholy, VI, 289, 17. e. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 344. [Ritson 1790]

THE LOCHMABEN HARPER—A
a. Glenriddell MS. XI, 42, 1791; "from a MS. collection of Mr Henderson." b. Johnson's Museum, No 579, VI, 598, 1803, communicated by Burns. c. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1802, I, 65.
THE LOCHMABEN HARPER—B
Glenriddell MSS, XI, 39, 1791; "from Dr Clapperton, of Lochmaben."

THE LOCHMABEN HARPER—C
The Edinburgh Topographical, Traditional, and Antiquarian Magazine, 1849, p. 58; communicated by W. G. "from the recitation of a friend, who learned it many years ago from her grandfather," a farmer in Wigtonshire, who died in 1813, at the age of ninety-four.

LORD MAXWELL'S LAST GOODNIGHT—A
Communicated to Percy by G. Paton, Edinburgh, December 4, 1778
LORD MAXWELL'S LAST GOODNIGHT—B
Glenriddell MSS, XI, 18. 1791.

THE FIRE OF FRENDRAUGHT—D
Ritson's Scotish Songs, 1794, II, 35; remembered by the Rev. Mr Boyd, translator of Dante, and communicated to the editor by J. C. Walker.

THE BONNIE HOUSE O AIRLIE—A
a. Sharpe's Ballad Book, p. 59, No 20, 1823. b. Finlay's Ballads, II, 25, 1808, from two recited copies and "one printed about twenty years ago on a single sheet." c. Skene MS., pp. 28, 54, from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3. d. Campbell MSS, II, 113, probably from a stallcopy. e, f. Aberdeen stall copies, "printed for the booksellers." g. Hogg's Jacobite Relics, II, 152, No 76, "Cromek and a street ballad collated, 1821." h. Kinloch MSS, VI, 5, one stanza, taken down from an old woman's recitation by J. Robertson.   ["The earliest copy of this ballad hitherto found is a broadside of about 1790...."]
THE GYPSY LADDIE—A
Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany, vol. iv, 1740. Here from the London edition of 1763, p. 427. [Herd 1769, 1776, Pinkerton 1783, Ritson 1794]
THE GYPSY LADDIE—G
a. A broadside in the Roxburghe Ballads, III, 685, entered in the catalogue, doubtfully, as of Newcastle upon Tyne, 1720. b. A recent stall-copy, Catnach, 2 Monmouth Court, Seven Dials.
THE GYPSY LADDIE—K
a. From Mrs Helena Titus Brown of New York. b. From Miss Emma A. Clinch of New York. Derived, 1820, or a little later, a directly, b indirectly, from the singing of Miss Phœbe Wood, Huntington, Long Island, and perhaps learned from English soldiers there stationed during the Revolutionary war.

BESSY BELL AND MARY GRAY
Sharpe's Ballad Book, 1823, p. 62. b. Lyle's Ancient Ballads and Songs, 1827, p. 160, "collated from the singing of two aged persons, one of them a native of Perthshire." c. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1833, I, 45, two stanzas. [Child says: "A squib on the birth of the Chevalier St Geroge, beginning
        Bessy Bell and Mary Grey,
        Those famous bonny lasses,
shows that this little ballad, or song, was very well known in the last years of the seventeenth century. The first stanza was made by Ramsay the beginning of a song of his own, and stands thus in Ramsay's Poem, Edinburgh, 1721, p. 80:
        O Bessy Bell and Mary Gray,
        They are tw bonny lasses;
        They bigged a bower on yon Burn-brae,
        And theekd it oer wi rashes.

THE BARON OF BRACKLEY—C
Jamieson-Brown MS., Appendix, p. viii, as transcribed for Jamieson by Rev. Andrew Brown, and sent him by Mrs Brown in a letter of June 18, 1801. b. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 102; Mrs. Brown's copy combined with an imperfect one taken down by Sir W. Scott "from the recitation of two ladies, great-grandchildren of Farquharson of Inverey."

JAMIE DOUGLAS—J
Motherwell's MS., p. 299; from the recitation of Rebecca Dunse, a native of Galloway, 4 May, 1825. "A song of her mother's, an old woman."
JAMIE DOUGLAS—M
Herd's MSS, I, 54. [1776]
Also: WALY, WALY, GIN LOVE BE BONY
Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany, the second volume, published before 1727; here from the Dublin edition of 1729, p. 176. b. Thomson's Orpheus Caledonius, seond edition, 1733, I, 71; four stanzas in the first edition, 1725, No 34. [Percy 1765, Herd 1796]

And from the Appendix:
ARTHUR'S SEAT SHALL BE MY BED, ETC., OR, LOVE IN DESPAIR
A new song much in request, sung with its own proper tune.
Laing, Broadsides Ballads, No. 61, not dated but considered to have been printed towards the end of the seventeenth or the beginning of the eighteenth century, and probably at Edinburgh.

GEORDIE—A
Johnson's Museum, No 346, p. 357, 1792; communicated by Robert Burns.
And from Appendix:
"A lamentable new ditty, made upon the death of a worthy gentleman named George Stoole...." Roxburghe Collection, I [Ritson 1793]

BONNIE JAMES CAMPBELL—A
Herd's MSS, I, 40, II, 184.

BEWICK AND GRAHAM
'The Song of Bewick and Grahame,' a stall-copy, in octavo, British Museum, 11621. e. 1. (4.) b. 'A Remarkable and Memorable Song of Sir Robert Bewick and the Laird Graham,' broadside, Roxburghe Ballads, III, 624. c. 'A Remarkable and Memorable Song of Sir Robert Bewick and the Laird Graham,' broadside, Percy papers. d. 'Bewick and Graham's Garland,' M. Angus and Son, Newcastle, Bell Ballads, Abbotsford Library, P. 5, vol. i, No 60. e. Broadside, in "A Jolly Book of Garlands collected by John Bell in Newcastle," No 29, Abbotsford Library, E. 1. f. 'Bewick and Graham,' chapbook, Newcastle, W. Fordyce. g. "Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 145, Abbotsford. h. 'Chirstie Græme,' the same, No 89. ["No copy of this ballad earlier than the last century is known to me. The Museum Catalogue gives a conjectural date of 1740 to a. and of 1720 to b. and, conjecturally again, to Newcastle."]

SIR JAMES THE ROSE
From a stall-tract of about 1780, Abbotsford library. b. Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 321. c. Sir James the Rose's Garland, one of a volume of the like from Heber's library. d. Motherwell's MS., p. 281; from the recitation of Mrs Gentles, of Paisley. e. Herd's MSS, I, 82. f. The same, II, 42. g. 'Sir James the Rose,' Pinkerton's Scottish Tragic Ballads, 1781, p. 61.

THE BRAES O YARROW—A
Communicated to Percy by Dr William Robertson, Principal of Edinburgh.
THE BRAES O YARROW—D
Communicated to Percy by Robert Lambe, Norham, April 16, 1768.
THE BRAES O YARROW—O
Herd's MSS, I, 35, II, 181. [Ritson 1794]

RARE WILLIE DROWNED IN YARROW, OR, THE WATER O GAMRIE—A
Thomson's Orpheus Caledonius, II, 110, 1733.
RARE WILLIE DROWNED IN YARROW, OR, THE WATER O GAMRIE—B
a. Cromek's Select Scotish Songs, 1810, II, 196; eighth and ninth stanzas of a fragment sent William Tytler by Burns in 1790. b. Stenhouse's edition of the Musical Museum, 1853, IV, 464.

And in the Appendix:
"ALLAN WATER" /ANNAN WATER
"mentioned in Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany...1729"

THE MOTHER'S MALISON, OR, CLYDE'S WATER—B
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 135; from Mrs Brown's recitation, apparently in 1800.

THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—A
Percy papers; communicated to Percy by R. Lambe, of Norham, August 17, 1768, and dated May, 1768.
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—B
Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 308. b. Johnson's Museum, No 110, p. 113.
"The Broom of Cowdenknows,' a "new" song, in the Tea-Table Miscellany, p. 22, Dublin, 1729...."

THE BONNY LASS OF ANGLESEY—A
Herd's MSS, I, 148.

BONNY BABY LIVINGSTON—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., Appendix, p. xii, sent by Mrs Brown to Jamieson, in a letter dated September 15, 1800. b. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 135, as taken from Mrs Brown's recitation a short time before a was written down.
EPPIE MORRIE
Maidment's North Countrie Garland, p. 40, 18 ["This ballad," says Maiment, "is probably much more than a century old...."]

BONNY LIZIE BAILLIE
'Bonny Lizie Balie, A New Song very much in Request,' Laing broadsides, No 46; no date or place. b. 'Bonny Lizzie Bailie,' Maidment's Scotish Ballads and Songs, 1859, p. 13. c. 'My bonny Lizzie Baillie,' Johnson's Museum, ed. 1853, IV, 451. d. 'Lizae Baillie,' Herd's MSS, I, 101, [1776] and, in part, II, 121. e. 'Lizie Baillie,' Campbell MSS, I, 98. f. 'Lizzie Bailie,' Smith's Scotish Minstrel, IV, 90. g. 'Lizie Baillie,' Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland, II, 173.

CHARLIE MAC PHERSON—A
Harris MS., fol. 23 b; from Mrs Harris's singing. ["The ballad was known to Mrs Brown of Falkland. She gives it the title of 'The Carrying-off of the Heiress of Kinady,'..."]

THE EARL OF ABOYNE—B
Buchan's Gleanings, p. 71, 1825. b. Gibb MS., p. 29, No 5, 1882, as learned by Mrs Gibb, senior, "fifty years ago," in Strachan, Kincardineshire.
"None of the versions here gien g beyond 1800. Mrs Brown of Falkland, in an unprinted letter to Alexander Fraser Tytler, December 23, 1800, offers him 'The death of The Coountess of Aboyne,' which she had heard sung when a child...."

THE LAIRD O DRUM—B
Skene MS., p. 78; taken down from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3. [see Herd 1776, in Appendix]

GLENLOGIE, OR, JEAN O BETHELNIE—F
Communicated to Percy by Robert Lambe, of Norham, August 17, 1768; dated April, 1768.

THE RANTIN LADDIE—A
a. Johnson's Musical Museum, No 462, p. 474, communicated by Robert Burns; 1797. b. Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland, II, 66, 1828.

JAMES HARRIS (THE DÆMON LOVER)—A
Pepys Ballads, IV, 101; from a copy in Percy's papers.
JAMES HARRIS (THE DÆMON LOVER)—B
The Rambler's Garland, British Museum, 11621, c. 4 (57). 1785(?)

LADY ELSPAT
a. Jamieson-Brown MS., p. 19. Printed in Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 191. b. "Scottish Songs," MS., fol. 30, Abbotsford Library, N. 3, in the handwriting of Walter Scott, about 1795.

THE GREY COCK, OR, SAW YOU MY FATHER?
a. 'The Grey Cock,' Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 324; Herd's MSS, I, 4; Herd's Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, 1776, II, 208. b. 'Saw you my father?' Chappell's Popular Music, p. 731. [1772, 1787]

THE KITCHIE-BOY—C
Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 7.

Additions:
THE TWA SISTERS
Anna Seward to Walter Scott - a version of "Binnorie" "I first heard sung, with farcial grimace, in my infancy [born 1747], ..."
KING JOHN AND THE BISHOP - P
"was printed and sold by John White, Newcastle-upon-tyne, "circa 1777:"
YOUNG BEICHAN
from Mrs Christiana Greenwood, London, to Scott, 1806, "as heard by her in her youth at Longnewton, near Jedburgh, "where most of the old women could sing it."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: GUEST,Dave Ruch typing on cell phone
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 06:02 PM

Hi John,

Have you tried Kate Van Winkle Keller and David Hildebrand? You can find both with a quick Google search. They seem to specialize in "folk" and other music from colonial America, and I know they've gone through a fair number of manuscripts from that period.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 07:00 PM

Okay, John. Be glad to help.

Kate's on Ballad List.

As you're on Vol 5, most of the single version stuff won't be in your list.

Most of the humorous songs are straight off broadsides and are really only there as representatives of their type, Get up and bar the door, Keach i' the Creel etc., and could easily have been replaced by a thousand more similar pieces.

295A is a late 18thc garland ballad and slip song.
The concoction that is 295B derives from A and another late 18thc ballad that was very common in the 19thc and from which all of the American versions derive. There are a few Scottish fragments that derive from A in the Greig/Duncan Collection. B is a recent fabrication c1890. As Child demonstrates, even A is a concoction of bits and pieces from other ballads, but by a broadside hack.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 12:27 PM

Here is what I could glean from Vol 5 of THE ENGLISH AND SCOTTISH POPULAR BALLADS (Dover) with regard to ballads from the 1700s collected by Child. I have included all of the Appendices, etc. Again, please forgive gross errors and misunderstandings since I am totally unfamiliar with Child's sources. At the end of all of this, I did find Child's "Sources Of The Texts of the English and Scottish Ballads", which was very helpful and if I had the energy, I should go back over everything and double check it with this list in hand, but for now..."

--------------
JOHN THOMSON AND THE TURK—B
Leyden's Glossary to The Complaynt of Scotland, p. 371. ["Leyden (1801) says that he had "heard the whole song when very young."]

THE HEIR OF LINNE—A
Percy MS., p. 71; Hales and Furnivall, I, 174. [1765, 1794]
And, "THE RUNKARD'S LEGACY" from Percy's Papers in Appendix

THE LORD OF LORN AND THE FALSE STEWARD—A
Percy MS., p. 73, Hales and Furnivall, I, 180.
THE LORD OF LORN AND THE FALSE STEWARD—B
Wood, 401, fol. 95 b. b. Roxburghe, I, 222, III, 534; Roxburghe Ballads, ed. Chappell, II, 55. c. Pepys, I, 494, No 254 (from a transcript in Percy's p

THE SUFFOLK MIRACLE
Wood, E. 25, fol. 83. b. Roxburghe, II, 240; Moore's Pictorial Book of Ancient Ballad Poetry, p. 463. [also Pepys,III...Old Ballads, 1723]

KING EDWARD THE FOURTH AND A TANNER OF TAMWORTH
a. Wood, 401, fol. 44, Bodleian Library.
b. Douce, I, 109, Bodleian Library.
Roxburghe, I, 176, 177; Chappell, Roxburghe Ballads, I, 529.

And "KING HENRY II AND THE MILLER OF MANSFIELD in Percy

OUR GOODMAN—A
Herd's MSS, I, 140. [1776]
OUR GOODMAN—B
A broadside: Printed and Sold at the Printing-Office in Bow Church-Yard, London.

GET UP AND BAR THE DOOR—A
Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 330. b. [Pinkerton], Select Scotish Ballads, 1783, II, 150.
GET UP AND BAR THE DOOR—C
Johnson's Museum, IV, 376, No 365, 1792. Contributed by Robert Burns.

THE FRIAR IN THE WELL—A
a. Rawlinson, 566, fol. 63, 40. b. Roxburghe, II, 172; Ebsworth, Roxburghe Ballads, VII, 222. c. D'Urfey's Pills to purge Melancholy, ed. 1719, III, 325.

THE WIFE WRAPT IN WETHER'S SKIN—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 319. "From the recitation of a friend of the editor's in Morayshire." [A fragment in Herd's MSS, I...belongs, if not to this ballad, at least to one in which an attempt is made to tame a shrew by castigation."]

THE JOLLY BEGGAR—B
a. Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 46. b. Curious Tracts, Scotland, British Museum, 1078, m. 24, No 30. ["The Gaberlunyie -Man" was, so far as can be ascertained, first printed in teh Tea-Table Miscellany (in 1724)...."    Pinkerton 1783, Johnson, 1790, ritson 1794, Herd 1776]

THE CRAFTY FARMER
a. 'The Crafty Farmer,' Logan, A Pedlar's Pack, p. 126, from a chap-book of 1796; 'The Crafty Miller,' Maidment, Scotish Ballads and Songs, 1859, p. 208, from a Glasgow stall-copy; a stall-copy, printed by M. Randall, Stirling.
'The Yorkshire Farmer,' Kidson, Traditional Tunes, p.140, from The Manchester Songster, 1792.

JOHN DORY
Ravenscroft's Deuteromelia, London, 1609; No 1 of Freemen's Songs, sig. B.

THE GEORGE ALOE AND THE SWEEPSTAKE
a. Percy Papers, "from an ancient black-letter copy in Ballard's collection."
b. Rawlinson, 566, fol. 183, 40.
Roxburghe, III, 204, in Ebsworth, Roxburghe Ballads, VI, 408.

THE SWEET TRINITY (THE GOLDEN VANITY)—A
Pepys Ballads, IV, 196, No 189.

CAPTAIN WARD AND THE RAINBOW
Bagford Ballads, I, 65. [Pepys]

THE YOUNG EARL OF ESSEX'S VICTORY OVER THE EMPEROR OF GERMANY—A
Douce Ballads, III, fol. 80 b. b. Roxburghe, III, 416, in Ebsworth's Roxburghe Ballads, VI, 405. [in Evans's Old Ballads, 1777]

THE MERMAID—A
The Glasgow Lasses Garland, the second piece, British Museum, 11621. c. 3 (68). "Newcastle, 1765?"

JOHN OF HAZELGREEN—A
Elizabeth Cochrane's MS., p. 126. ["having been transcribed by C.K. Sharpe for Sir W. Scott "from a 4to MS., in a female hand, written probably about one hundred years ago,...."]

THE OUTLAW MURRAY—A
Herd's MSS, II, fol. 76, I, 255, 1795. b. Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, 1803, I, 1; principally from a copy found among the papers of the late Mrs Cockburn, of Edinburgh. c. Aytoun's Ballads of Scotland, 1859, II, 131; "from an old manuscript in the Philiphaugh charterchest," now not accessible. d. A copy among the Philiphaugh papers, transcribed not earlier than 1848.
THE OUTLAW MURRAY—B
Glenriddell's MSS, XI, 61, 1791.
-----
ADDITIONS & CORRECTIONS, etc

THE THREE RAVENS
a version from E. Peacock, Lincolnshire, "whose father, born in 1793, heard it as a boy at harvest suppers and sheep-shearings, and took down a copy from the recitation of Harry Richard, a laborer, who cold not read and had leart it 'from his fore-elders.'

THE GARDENER
Five Excellent New Songs. Edinburgh. Printed and sold by William Forrest, at the head of the Cowgate, 1766.

FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM
"Communicated by Miss Mary E. Burleigh, of Worcester MA, and deriaved, through a relative, from her great-grandmother, who had heard the ballad sung at gatherings of young people in Webster, MA, not long after 1820."

THE BAFFLED KNIGHT
The Complete Collection of Old and New English and Scotch Songs, 1735...repetitions from earlier publications;...."

THE WIFE WRAPT IN WETHER'S SKIN
"From the recitation of Miss Lydia R. Nichols, Salem, MA, as heard in the early years of this century. Sung by a New England country fellow on ship-board...."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 12:30 PM

Dave Ruch, thanks for the reference to Kate Van Winkle Keller and David Hildebrand. I have checked out their website and found it most interesting.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 02:15 PM

It seems that many of the ballads in Child's collection were around in one form or another in England and Scotland in the 1700s. Without creating any hard and fast categories, I would suggest four different groupings. There were "manuscript" collections, which were not usually public, unless they had been gathered up and published. There were "broadsides" and broadside collections. These may have been old and would probably have fallen into the category of manuscript collections. Or they were contemporary and in active circulation. Then there were the actual publications of books, etc., which contained "collections". It would appear that a number of these went through several editions during the 18th century, especially toward the end of the century. And finally, there were the ballads that were still being sung in the "oral tradition". It would seem that some of these ballads still being sung were beginning to be collected toward the end of the century and would perhaps show up in the early 19th century published collections, which would also contain much of the manuscript material as well. There may have been and probably was overlap amongst these different groupings.

Now the question is, for my purposes, how did each of these groupings of ballad material contribute to their exportation to the American Colonies and later to the new republic in the 1700s? Obviously, actual books could have been exported or brought over by immigrants. But realistically, how often, back then, would a ballad be taken from a book and sung and thus put back into oral circulation? It is certainly possible. But I would assume not so likely.

On the other hand, contemporary Broadside Ballad sheets could easily have been exported to America in many different ways. And one would assume that to a certain extent that these were designed for singing? Or at least some were used for that purpose. So, which of these ballads found in the 18th century were in contemporary Broadside form? Which ones were actually published as broadsides in the 1700s?   Is there an accessible list for this? Or is this going to entail another sorting project? I don't really have the background to do this because I am not familiar at all with the sources.

I would assume that until they were "collected" and published, the various manuscript collections were not available for public use either in England and Scotland, or in America. Unless someone had made a copy and brought it over with them, they would not likely have gotten to America from this group.

And that leaves those ballads that were being actively sung in the oral tradition throughout the 1700s in England and Scotland. I did notice quite often that ballads were "taken down from recitation" in Child's notes. A lot of them were not being sung but recited like poetry? That is a somewhat different kind of oral tradition than one would normally think of in association with ballads. Can we tell which of these ballads were being sung in England and Scotland during the 1700s? I would assume that just because they show up in a written manuscript or a published book doesn't mean that they necessarily had "died out of the oral tradition." I suspect that some of this information is probably in those collections from the first quarter of the 19th century, such as Scot, which I have not included in my survey. But once again, I am not familiar with these materials. How do we find out which ones were being sung?

I would assume that the two primary ways that these ballads traveled to America were either by the oral tradition or by the Broadside tradition, or some combination of these two.

This means that what we've established with this survey is the probable exclusion - although they may have been in the oral tradition and not "collected" yet - of those ballads for which there is no written documentation in Child (or elsewhere) until at least 1825 or so. It turns out that this doesn't really narrow the scope very significantly. On the flip side, we can say, at least theoretically that all of the ballads for which we do have documentation (in Child and elsewhere) in 18th century England and Scotland (and in a few cases Ireland), "could" have come over to America during that time, or later.

But the fact is, as far as documentation goes, there is no evidence that many of them ever did come over to America. Now I want to look at which of the ballads from the survey of 18th century material have been "collected" from the oral traditions in America prior to audio recordings and radio. However, for the most part, our American documentation for this comes from the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century. It was interesting to come across a handful of American versions in Child, almost all of them in the footnotes and appendices. I had not expected that. Some of them were dated fairly early in the 19th century.

I am not at all sure that when all of this is said and done that we'll actually have any more certain information that when we began, but at least I will have a better understanding of the scope of things. That seems helpful and may raise some additional questions of interest.

Remember, I am trying to document the presence of any of the so-called "Child" ballads in America in the 1700s. I continue to appreciate all of your help.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 04:27 PM

John,
Apart from trawling through endless manuscript collections and indeed published accounts of the period, your best chance is looking at what survived to be collected and the differences between American versions and British versions, and you would do really well to co-operate with Richie in this venture as he has already made a strong start.

You are right to suggest the most likely sources of material migrating is oral tradition and street literature. A strong source seems to have been those little songsters with about 200 songs in published on both sides of the pond in the early part of the 19th century. Sharp certainly believed when he was collectiong in the Appalachians that many of the ballads had been circulating there for more than a century. There are indeed a few early ballads that were found in America that had long died out in Britain.

FWIW you need to be aware that literary interference existed both this side and your side. From an early stage collectors were fabricating and expanding oral material, for various reasons, mostly commercial. And indeed there is evidence to suggest that some of these fabrications went into oral tradition. Equally a similar process was going among the broadside hacks who saw nothing wrong in rewriting an old ballad to turn a quick shilling. This process often accounts for those ballads that have widely varying versions.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 08:59 PM

It is quite possible that these books, published in the 1700s, found their way to America. But I doubt that any ballads entered the oral tradition in America directly from them.

"WIT AND MIRTH: or Pills to Purge Melancholy; being a Collection of the best Merry Ballads and Songs, Old and New. Fitted to all Humours, having each their proper Tune for either Voice or Instrument: most of the Songs being new set." By Thomas D'Urfey. 6 vols. London. 1719-20.

"THE TEA-TABLE MISCELLANY: A Collection of Choice Songs, Scots and English." Edinburgh. 1724. 4 vols. [Glasgow, R. & A. Foulis. 1768. 2 vols.]

RELIQUES OF ANCIENT ENGLISH POETRY: Consisting of Old Heroic Ballads, Songs, and other Pieces of our Earlier Poets; together with some few of later date. By THOMAS PERCY, Lord Bishop of Dromore." 3 vols. 1st ed. London, 1765. [4th ed. (improved) 1794.--London, L. A. Lewis, 1839.]

"ANCIENT AND MODERN SCOTTISH SONGS, heroic Ballads, &c." By DAVID HERD. 2 vols. Edinburgh, 1769. 2d ed. 1776. [3d ed. Printed for Lawrie and Symington, 1791.]

"A SELECT COLLECTION OF ENGLISH SONGS, with their Original Airs, and an Historical Essay on the Origin and Progress of National Song." By J. Ritson. 1783. 2d ed. with Additional Songs and Occasional Notes, by Thomas Park. London, 1813. 3 vols.

"SCOTISH SONG. In two volumes." JOSEPH RITSON. London, 1794.   And other Ritson books.

Is there any documentation on these books being in America in the 1700s? And does anyone know of an instance when a ballad passed from such a book back into the "oral tradition" - prior to the middle of the 20th century, when all kinds of "folks" were learning ballads out of books.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: GUEST,julia L
Date: 22 Mar 12 - 11:11 PM

Seems like Williamsburg would be a good source
From Colonial Williamsburg's website on Tavern Music
Particularly popular in Virginia in the 1750s and later was Scottish music, John Turner (resident musician) said. Scottish music was in vogue in London during the period. Virginians who wanted to keep up with current English fashion eagerly embraced these tunes. In his later years, George Washington developed a fondness for these songs and encouraged his granddaughters to perform them for him. Scottish music also was enjoyed by the many Scots who settled and worked in Virginia.

Traditional songs touched on all sorts of topics. To appreciate the variety, consider three ballads Benjamin Franklin described as widely known in a 1765 letter to his brother: "Chevy Chase," "The Children in the Woods," and "The Spanish Lady." "Chevy Chase" tells of a bloody fight between knights. "The Children in the Woods" is a tale about the death of two young orphans caused by their uncle's greed for their inheritance. "The Spanish Lady" reveals the sufferings of a Spanish woman captured by English soldiers. She falls in love with one of her captors, who already has a wife and abandons his smitten prisoner for her.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 07:02 AM

Thanks for the reference to the Colonial Williamsburg Tavern Music website, julia L.    Ben Franklin's reference to "Chevy Chase" is particularly helpful, since it tends to confirm an earlier reference to that ballad above from Mick Pearce. The reference to the popularity of Scottish music is also interesting. Here is another paragraph from that website referring to Thomas Jefferson's music library. I wonder if he had any of the six books I mentioned above in his library. That information might be available somewhere.

"Though the oral transmission of these songs was a powerful force in the 1700s, there also was interest in preserving them in written form. Individuals collected them and published anthologies of traditional music. Thomas Jefferson shelved some of these works in his music library. Music for drinking songs, country dances, and English, Scottish, and Irish airs rested near works by Vivaldi, Handel, and Haydn. Jefferson also liked playing fiddle tunes heard at local gatherings, according to historian Gilbert Chase in America's Music: From the Pilgrims to the Present."

Here is the website:

http://www.history.org/foundation/journal/winter03-04/tavern.cfm


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 08:31 AM

John

There's plenty of stuff on Jefferson's library collection online. It appears (see this pdf: Scottish Enlightenment influence on Thomas Jefferson's book-buying) that 4 catalogues are available.


See also this: Jefferson and Reading.

The Thomas Jefferson archive has a copy of one of his catalogue's avaiable, and of particular interest is this page: Page 192 in Vocal sections.

This shows the following entries:

Drinking Songs 2 books
Curtis's Jessamine
Bach's Songs 2nd collection
Heron's song books 4th and 5th
Favourite songs published by Bremner
Dibden's Songs 8vo
book of songs 8vo
book of songs folio


Sadly few details on contents of the book of songs collections.


Pages 190+ is the music section. Page 196 includes:

Thumoth's English, Scotch & Irish airs
Thumoth's Scotch & Irish airs
Pocket companion for the German flute 8vo


all of which probably contained some well-known tunes.


It's probably worth pursuing, but I haven't time at the moment.

Also Jefferson's library may be more learned (there are books on music theory and classical compositions). You may need to look for more evidence of more popular books.



Mick


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 12:19 PM

Mick, thanks for the Jefferson materials.

Here is my rendition of "Coffin's List", or the Child ballads found in America according to Tristram Potter Coffin/Roger deV. Renwick in THE BRITISH TRADITIONAL BALLAD [as of 1963] (1977 University of Texas Press). I have deleted those ballads which Coffin said were not to be found in the "oral tradition" in America, and I have placed a "?" before those that seem especially questionable according to Coffin. I have also added a few quotes from him here and there.

I have placed brackets [] around those which did not show up on my survey of Child's material documented for the 1700s. The comparison of the "Coffin List" with the 1700s survey list may suggest that some of these citations need to be revisited. Please feel free to offer corrections. I have not tried to update the Coffin/deV. Renwick listing since 1963 yet. There may well be additions. I have not had time yet to consult either Richie's work or the materials sent to me pm by Mick Pearce. These may provide some additions to the "Coffin List".

Coffin's List

Riddles Wisely Expounded
The Elfin Knight
The False Knight on the Road
Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight
[Earl Brand]
The Twa Sisters
The Cruel Brother
Lord Randal
Edward
Babylon or The Bonnie Banks o Fordie
[Hind Horn]
Sir Lionel
The Cruel Mother
St. Stephen and Herod ["There is little doubt that it (the Vermont text in Flanders) was learned from print." p. 46]
[Bonnie Annie] ["...such fragments are too brief to prove much." p.46]
The Three Ravens
[The Whummil Bore]
Thomas Rymer
The Wee Wee Man
[The Queen of Elfan's Nourice]
Clerk Colvill [See discussion of "Lady Alice #85.]
[The Broomfield Hill]
[?]The Two Magicians]
King John and the Bishop
Captain Wedderburn's Courtship
[The Twa Brothers]
[Lizie Wan]
[The King's Dochter Lady Jean]
Young Beichan
The Cherry-Tree Carol
Dives and Lazarus
Sir Patrick Spens
Fair Annie
Child Waters
Lady Maisry
Young Hunting
Lord Thomas and Annet
Fair Margaret and Sweet William
Lord Lovel
The Lass of Roch Royal
Sweet William's Ghost
The Unquiet Grave
[The Wife of Usher's Well]
Little Musgrave and Lady Barnard
Child Maurice
Bonny Barbara Allen
[Lady Alice]
[?]Young Benjie]
[Prince Robert]
Young Johnstone
Jellon Grame
[?]Bonny Bee Hom
Lamkin
The Maid Freed From the Gallows
The Gay Goshawk
Johnie Scott
Willie o Winsberry
Willie and Earl Richard's Daughter ["This text...was probably learned from Kittredge's edition of the Child ballads."]
The Bailiff's Daughter of Islington
The Famous Flower of Serving Men [from the BLACKBIRD SONGSTER?]
The Knight and the Shepherd's Daughter
The Baffled Knight/Blow Away the Morning Dew
Johnie Cock
Robin Hood and Guy of Gisborne
Robin Hood's Death
Robin Hood and Little John
Robin Hood and the Tanner
Robin Hood and the Prince of Aragon ["The Maine version is obviously from print...."]
The Bold Pedlar and Robin Hood ["printed in the American Songster in New York before 1850...."]
Robin Hood and Allen a Dale ["Greenway believes she (Aunt Molly Jackson) learned it fromthe Kittredge on-volume edition of Child and then changed the text."]
Robin Hood's Progress to Nottingham
Robin Hood Rescuing Three Squires [American Songster]
Robin Hood Rescuing Will Stutly
[?]Robin Hood and the Bishop
Sir Hugh, or the Jew's Daughter
Queen Eleanor's Confession
Gude Wallace
The Hunting of the Cheviot
King Henry Fifth's Conquest of France
The Rose of England ["This is the only report of the song from modern oral tradition, and the chances are good the stanzas were learned from print."]
Sir Andrew Bartin/Henry Martyn
The Death of Queen Jane
Mary Hamilton
Northumberland Betrayed by Douglas
Captain Car, or, Edom o Gordon
The Bonnie Earl of Murray
[Willie Macintosh ["...taken down from recitation and appears to be no longer sung in Maine."]
Dick o the Cow
Jock o the Side
Archie o Cawfield
Bonnie House o' Airlie
The Gypsy Laddie
Bessy Bell and Mary Gray
Jamie Douglas
[Lord Dernwentwater]
Geordie
Bonnie James Campbell
The Braes o Yarrow
Rare Willie Drowned in Yarrow, or, The Water o Gamrie
The Broom of Cowdenknows
[The False Lover Won Back]
[Katherine Jafray]
[Rob Roy]
[Lizie Lindsay]
[Glasgow Peggie]
[Andrew Lammie]
The Laird o Drum
The Rantin Laddie
James Harris, (The Daemon Lover)
The Grey Cock, or, Saw You My Father
John Thomson and the Turk
The Heir of Linne
The Suffolk Miracle
Our Goodman
Get Up and Bar the Door
The Wife Wrapt in Wether's Skin
[The Farmer's Curst Wife]
The Jolly Beggar
[The Keach I the Creel]
The Crafty Farmer
The George Aloe and the Sweepstake
The Sweet Trinity (The Golden Vanity)
Captain Ward and the Rainbow
The Mermaid
John of Hazelgreen
[The Brown Girl]
[The Trooper and Maid]


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 02:59 PM

John, In the 18th century most of the better off in Britain were into theatrical and pleasure garden songs and songs we wouldn't really recognise as folksong nowadays. The Jefferson books are really of this type. Culture in America at that time more or less, as you would expect, mirrored that in Britain. Whilst possibly in the 16th and 17th centuries there was some interest in the ballads, by the 18th century they were the province of antiquarians and those much further down the social scale. What survived by then was more the province of old nurses and the poorer tradespeople, those who couldn't afford to buy the current sheet music and go to the theatre. This is one reason why the likes of Dibdin's prolific output didn't survive in oral tradition, and of course the nature of the material. If you trawl through 18thc collections you have to put up with 99% flowery poetic mush before you come across the 1% that looks remotely like folksong, but they are there and it is worthwhile if you have the patience.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 04:41 PM

We aren't the 99? Ha! And I'm glad to know where antiquarians stand on the social scale, too.

Thanks, Steve. This is a most helpful note. I'm not surprised about this. And so, what's the best way to get to those old nurses and poorer tradespeople of the 18th century? And which collections most reflect their world?

I have already trawled a bit through some of that flowery mush and would like to avoid it as much as possible. How do we find that 1%?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Mar 12 - 05:57 PM

I'm afraid on the whole the only people with literacy showing any interest were the antiquarians. Unfortunately they were also poets by and large and couldn't resist tampering and imitating. As I said there are no shortcuts I know of. Get in there and sift. We've probably covered the obvious exceptions in Huntington, Thomson etc.

Another possible source where you will find very relevant material is the JAFL and similar regional publications.

People like Norm Cohen, Ed Cray, John Grant and Jonathan have already done a lot of the groundwork. You could save yourself a lot of time by consulting them.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 08:55 AM

Mick Pearce kindly sent me the info from Roud on Child materials from 1946 to 1986. As near as I can tell, there were only two additions to Child ballads discovered in America in oral tradition since Coffin/deV. Renwick in 1963. Both are Robin Hood ballads, #122 and #136:

ROBIN HOOD AND THE BUTCHER (Child 122 Roud 3980)
Book
Wolfe, Folk Songs of Middle Tennessee (1997) pp.23-24
Roake, Herbert
USA : Tennessee : Clarksville
1950 (19 Dec)
Boswell, George

MY NAME IS ALLAN-A-DALE (Child 138 Roud 3298) {"Robin Hood's Delight"}
Book
Roberts & Agey, In the Pine (1978) pp.65-66
Whitaker, Sam
USA : Tennessee : Oak Ridge
1957
Tompkins, Katherine

I have also taken a quick look at Richie's site and did not discover any additional information at this time. Richie, please correct me if I am wrong. I was getting pretty cross-eyed at that point!

I also looked at some Broadsides on the Bodleian site. I checked from 1750 to 1780. I found five copies of "Lord Thomas and Fair Elinor", one of "The Famous Flower of Serving Men", two of "The Hunting of the Cheviot" and one of "Queen Eleanor's Confession", and I think one of "The Jolly Beggar". The dates were uncertain on some of them. This was not a comprehensive survey of the 18th century Broadsides at the Bodleian. There may be a larger number prior to 1750. And I don't know about the end of the century.   There were not as many as I had expected in the middle.

I am beginning to get a very rough sense of the situation in England and Scotland in the 1700s, as Steve sums it up: " by the 18th century they were the province of antiquarians and those much further down the social scale. What survived by then was more the province of old nurses and the poorer tradespeople, those who couldn't afford to buy the current sheet music and go to the theatre." The question is whether the antiquarians were really tapping into the oral tradition. Until I can get some sense of the extent of the oral tradition in the 18th century, I don't think it will be possible to have any sense of what could have "come over here."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 10:51 AM

John
As others will tell you I am at the extreme end of scepticism when it comes to the early collectors. At one end are those that believe all of the ballads came from oral tradition and at the other, like me, there are those that believe that there was a great amount of rewriting going on and mixing and matching. The truth must lie somewhere in between. The thing is no-one can prove it either way. I have been studying closely the Child ballads, broadsides and oral tradition for more than 40 years now; on the other hand there are academics with at least the same amount of study and who are more highly qualified who take the opposite stance to me. All I can say is that most collections exist in manuscript form and give details of the informants. With these we have really to take the collector's word, people like Ritson and Motherwell, although Motherwell admitted to some adulteration in his early publications. The likes of Buchan and Scott we just cannot trust(IMHO)

As for American versions, as I said before, the British ballads must have come across in the heads of those migrants originally and the majority must be genuine. There is no reason why even the earliest settlers wouldn't have brought their ballads with them. I would just avoid Niles and Reed-Smith, but this is only MY opinion. There are also those that are so close to the British versions that they must have come from books, possibly even Child itself.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 11:33 AM

Steve, I appreciate your comments and your experience and always have a good deal of respect for a healthy skepticism. I, too, suspect that it was very hard for most "collectors" to resist the temptation to "polish and improve", whether they were in the 16th century or the 20th century. I doubt whether the "improved versions" went back into the oral tradition [except perhaps in the 20th century when a collector might have been a performer as well]. They are probably what got printed for the scholars' frustration. At this point I am primarily interested in any hints about something being actually sung in the 18th century. I am more focused on the fact that a certain ballad was mentioned as "coming from the singing of so and so" than on the actual text of that ballad. I am looking for "living proof" so to speak. I do recognize that even with this, we have only the "collector's word".

I have gone back over my 18th century survey from Child and pulled out all of the references that I can see to something that looks like "oral tradition". However, I quickly discovered that many if not most of them referred to "recitations". Does this always mean that they were "spoken" as opposed to being sung? Here is what I found, other than Herd, Percy, & Mrs. Brown, to start with:

BURD ELLEN AND YOUNG TAMLANE
Maidment's North Countrie Garland, 1824, p. 21. Communicated by R. Pitcairn, "from the recitation of a female relative, who had heard it frequently sung in her childhood," about sixty years before the above date. [1764]

CAPTAIN WEDDERBURN'S COURTSHIP—B
Kinloch MSS, I, 83, from Mary Barr's recitation. b. Lord Roslin's Daughter's Garland. c. Buchan's MSS, II, 34. d. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 159. e. Harris MS., fol. 19 b, No 14, from Mrs Harris's recitation. f. Notes and Queries, 2d S., IV, 170, "as sung among the peasantry of the Mearns," 1857. [from Child: "Jamieson writes to the Scots Magazine, 1803, p. 701: " Of this ballad I have got one whle copy and part of another, and I remember a good deal of it as I have heard it sung in Morayshire when I was a child."]

SIR PATRICK SPENS—H
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, III, 64, ed. 1803; I, 299, ed. 1833; "taken from two MS. copies, collated with several verses recited by the editor's friend, Robert Hamilton, Esq., Advocate." [Child says: "...H, was made up from two versions, the better of which was G, and five stanzas, 16-20, recited by Mr Hamilton, sheriff of Lanarkshire. Mr Hamilton is said to have got his fragment "from an old nurse, a retainer of the Gilkerscleugh family," when himself a boy, about the middle of the last century."]

SIR ALDINGAR—B
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, III, 51, 1803. Communicated to Scott by K. Williamson Burnet, of Monboddo, as written down from the recitation of an old woman, long in the service of the Arbuthnot family.

FAIR ANNIE—A
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 102, 1802, chiefly from the recitation of an old woman residing near Kirkhill, in West Lothian.

WILLIE AND LADY MAISRY—A
Motherwell's MS., p. 498; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 370. From the recitation of Mrs Notman, then far advanced in years, with whose grandmother it was a favorite: September 9, 1826.

THE WIFE OF USHER'S WELL—A
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 111, 1802, from the recitation of an old woman residing near Kirkhill, in West Lothian.

CHILD MAURICE—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 480, from the recitation of Widow Michael, a very old woman, as learned by her in Banffshire seventy years before. August, 1826. [Child's notes]
CHILD MAURICE—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 165; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 269. From the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, seventy years of age, as learned from her mother at the Water of Leven, Dumbarton, when she was ten years old. March, 1825. [Child's notes]

THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—K
Motherwell's MS., p. 226. From the recitation of Widow McCormick, Westbrae, Paisley, 1825; learned of an old woman in Dumbarton, thirty or forty years before.

KING HENRY FIFTH'S CONQUEST OF FRANCE
a-d, broadsides. a. Among Percy's papers. b. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 358. c. Jewitt's Ballads and Songs of Derbyshire, p. 1. d. Chetham's Library, Manchester, in Hales and Furnivall, Percy's Folio MS., II, 597. e. Percy papers, "taken down from memory." f. Nicolas, History of the Battle of Agincourt, 1832, Appendix, p. 78, from the recitation of a very aged person. g. The same, p. 80, source not mentioned. h. Tyler, Henry of Monmouth, II, 197, apparently from memory. i. Percy Society, XVII, Dixon, Ancient Poems, etc., p. 52, from singing. j. Skene MS., p. 42. k. Macmath MS., p. 27, from tradition. 1, m. Buchan's MSS, I, 176, II, 124, probably broadside or stall copies.

JOCK O THE SIDE—B
a. Caw's Poetical Museum, 1784, p. 145; "from an old manuscript copy." b. Campbell's Albyn's Anthology, II, 28; "taken down from the recitation of Mr Thomas Shortreed," of Jedburgh, "who learnt it from his father."

THE LOCHMABEN HARPER—C
The Edinburgh Topographical, Traditional, and Antiquarian Magazine, 1849, p. 58; communicated by W. G. "from the recitation of a friend, who learned it many years ago from her grandfather," a farmer in Wigtonshire, who died in 1813, at the age of ninety-four.

THE BONNIE HOUSE O AIRLIE—A
a. Sharpe's Ballad Book, p. 59, No 20, 1823. b. Finlay's Ballads, II, 25, 1808, from two recited copies and "one printed about twenty years ago on a single sheet." c. Skene MS., pp. 28, 54, from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3. d. Campbell MSS, II, 113, probably from a stallcopy. e, f. Aberdeen stall copies, "printed for the booksellers." g. Hogg's Jacobite Relics, II, 152, No 76, "Cromek and a street ballad collated, 1821." h. Kinloch MSS, VI, 5, one stanza, taken down from an old woman's recitation by J. Robertson.   ["The earliest copy of this ballad hitherto found is a broadside of about 1790...."]

JAMIE DOUGLAS—J
Motherwell's MS., p. 299; from the recitation of Rebecca Dunse, a native of Galloway, 4 May, 1825. "A song of her mother's, an old woman."

THE LAIRD O DRUM—B
Skene MS., p. 78; taken down from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3. [see Herd 1776, in Appendix]


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 11:59 AM

One more reference about "recitation":

THE THREE RAVENS
a version from E. Peacock, Lincolnshire, "whose father, born in 1793, heard it as a boy at harvest suppers and sheep-shearings, and took down a copy from the recitation of Harry Richard, a laborer, who could not read and had leart it 'from his fore-elders.'
--
And here are the references to ballads actually being sung from the 18th century survey (other than Herd, Percy, and Mrs. Brown):

CHILD MAURICE—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 255; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 282. From the singing of Widow McCormick, Paisley, January 19, 1825. Learned by her of an old woman in Dumbarton: Motherwell's Note Book, fol. 4.

CHILD MAURICE—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 510, from the singing of Mrs Storie, wife of William Storie, laborer, Lochwinnoch. A song of Mrs Storie's grandmother. [See Child's end notes for this ballad]

LAMKIN—F
a. Notes and Queries, Second Series, II, 324, as sung by a nurse nearly a century ago [1856] in Northumberland. b. Notes and Queries, Fourth Series, II, p. 281, from Northamptonshire, communicated by Mr B. H. Cowper.

THE GYPSY LADDIE—K
a. From Mrs Helena Titus Brown of New York. b. From Miss Emma A. Clinch of New York. Derived, 1820, or a little later, a directly, b indirectly, from the singing of Miss Phœbe Wood, Huntington, Long Island, and perhaps learned from English soldiers there stationed during the Revolutionary war.

BESSY BELL AND MARY GRAY
Sharpe's Ballad Book, 1823, p. 62. b. Lyle's Ancient Ballads and Songs, 1827, p. 160, "collated from the singing of two aged persons, one of them a native of Perthshire." c. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1833, I, 45, two stanzas.

CHARLIE MAC PHERSON—A
Harris MS., fol. 23 b; from Mrs Harris's singing.

THE TWA SISTERS
Anna Seward to Walter Scott - a version of "Binnorie" "I first heard sung, with farcial grimace, in my infancy [born 1747], ..."

YOUNG BEICHAN
from Mrs Christiana Greenwood, London, to Scott, 1806, "as heard by her in her youth at Longnewton, near Jedburgh, "where most of the old women could sing it."

JOHN THOMSON AND THE TURK—B
Leyden's Glossary to The Complaynt of Scotland, p. 371. ["Leyden (1801) says that he had "heard the whole song when very young."]?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 02:02 PM

John,
Recitation of the ballads as you have demonstrated here was quite common, particularly it would seem in Scotland. Some of the most prolific sources were reciters, even as late as the early 1900s when Bell Robertson delivered up to Gavin Greig her large repertoire without singing a note. She had learned many of her ballads in her youth from family singers.

Edward Peacock as mentioned in the note to The Three Ravens was a well-known Lincolnshire folklorist as were others in his family. They made frequent contributions to Notes and Queries in the late 19th century and their work is preserved in local museums and in the work of later folklorists. Ruairidh Greig who posts here occasionally would be able to put more flesh on the bones as he's from that neck of the woods.

Some of these ballads above were widely printed as stall copies and it would be a surprise if they hadn't turned up in oral tradition.
Young Beichan, Gypsy laddie, Bessy Bell, Bonny House o Airly, King Henry V, Kt & Shepherd's Daughter, Capt Wedderburn etc.

You'd be surprised how quickly literary or rewritten ballads can enter oral tradition, even in more recent times. Some of Buchan's pieces in Child for instance have been found in oral tradition locally in quite different versions. In the 19th century a German ballad was translated into French and some time later was retranslated into Portuguese. Only about 20 years later it was found very healthily embedded in oral tradition in Brazil. Scott's poetic adaptation of John of Hazelgreen occurs in oral tradition on both sides of the pond still sung to its 19th century tune.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 05:45 PM

Here is an "Index to the Known Oral Sources of the Child Collection" by Kenneth Thigpen, Jr. at the Folklore Institute, Indiana University. Unfortunately, he does not give any dates, nor does he identify who benefited from these sources. One will have to go back to Child again and sort it out from the numbers (Argh!) I do recognize a few of the names now. By "oral" he means either recited or sung, by an individual, mentioned by Child. Here is the link:

https://scholarworks.iu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2022/1195/5(2)%2055-69.pdf?sequence=1


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 12 - 07:57 PM

John,
Regarding Mrs Brown there is a new book out comparing all 5 manuscripts for the first time and looking at her background, which would throw up some interesting insights. I haven't got a copy yet.

Also if you haven't read it yet I strongly recommend Mary Ellen Brown's book 'Child's Unfinished Masterpiece' which includes Child's correspondence with his Scottish collectors and informants and gives some insight into his changing feelings about the authenticity of some of the ballads.

I'm currently transcribing the Peter Buchan Mss in the British Library which are very illuminating. Many of the ballads are straight off stall copies, others heavily tampered with, but there are some great earliest examples of well-known folk songs.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 06:55 AM

Steve, thanks for the references. I may get educated on some of this yet! This is all very complicated and fascinating. For now I'm going to try to stay focused on 18th century America, but I don't feel like I've quite arrived there yet. Soon, I hope. It must be exciting to get to work with the original materials.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 08:17 AM

Hope you don't mind an unrelated query
50 Child ballads have been recorded in Ireland since the middle of the last century (lists available on request)
I am trying to continue that list (compiled by Tom Munnelly) with additions of those having connections with Ireland, though not necessarily having been found here.
For instance, the Queen Eleanor's Confession (Child 156) included in 'British Ballads from Maine' comes with the note "MRS. FEED W. MORSE of Islesford who has lived in this country for many years, distinctly remembers hearing this song sung in her childhood in Ireland by "Old Andy," the beggar who used to come to her grandfather's house, and she learned it from him just as it is given in Child A. She says that her grandfather, a Roman Catholic, was provoked                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       because the song says that two friars heard a confession, which made him call the song foolish, and remark, "That's what the Protestants of England used to do." Inasmuch as Mrs. Morse knew every word just as given in Child A, this text is here reproduced."
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 08:56 AM

Jim,
Welcome!
I'm presuming your interesting query is asking for further Irish versions. A couple of suggestions, as most of us don't know what's on Tom's list we don't know what you've already got, so posting the list of what you've got would be helpful. Also it would attract more of the right people if it had its own thread as people dipping into this thread will mainly be interested in what it says on the label.

As at least half the Child ballads seem to have originated in Scotland, or have survived there in a healthier state, my own logic tells me that most of those found in Ireland came across with the waves of Scottish settlers in N Ireland, and then having been settled there for several generations many emigrated to America. I think it was Jonathan who suggested that most of the Child ballads found in N E America stem from these Scottish and Irish emigrants. As far as I can think at the moment no Child Ballads originated in Ireland, though I can think of several N Irish ballads that have every bit of as much history as some of those later Child Ballads.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 09:23 AM

Hi Steve,
Will happily supply a list of those already noted (pm an e-mail address), but I am not looking for versions recorded in Ireland - I can get those for myself, and Tom's list is pretty comprehensive as to which ballads have been recovered so far.
I am looking for those either learned in Ireland or said to have been heard there but discovered elsewhere (U.S., Canada, Australia etc) - as in the example I gave from Maine.
Would be grateful to receive any quotes such as with the Maine example.
Many thanks,
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 09:42 AM

By the way, as with other aspects of ballad transmission - their movement is a little more complex than just the Northern Ireland/ Scotland route.
Probably the most popular ballads sung around in the mid West here by source singers is The Suffolk Miracle and Lord Lovell, which, as far as I know, have not turned up in the North.
Hugh Shields once wrote a fascinating article on the transmission of Lord Gregory, also not found in the North (as far as I know).
Just before we came to live here 13 years ago we heard Peter Cook give a talk in Aberdeen on the influence in the other direction - from Ireland to Aberdeenshire - fascinating.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 25 Mar 12 - 04:34 PM

Jim
Absolutely, I was just generalising, and there are bound to be English ballads passed on through the broadside tradition like the ones you mention. The influence of Irish ballads in Scotland is well documented but I'm not aware that it includes any Child Ballads. The Glasgow Poet's Box to quote one source printed many Irish ballads.

Regarding ballads printed in Ireland, there are lots of copies in the BL. Goggin of Limerick (18thc) springs to mind and of course Haly in Cork, and Brereton and Birmingham in Dublin reprinted mountains of stuff in the 19thc some of it Child Ballads.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 07:51 PM

I have made some significant revisions and re-organizations of my survey materials. First of all I took the list from Coffin/deV. Renwick (1963) of all of the Child Ballads that had been found in America up to that point, with the two additions from Roud (thru 1986} as my template. I edited this list in a few places deleting examples that Coffin thought were highly unlikely, or had been learned from a book, or were extremely fragmentary.

I then went to my survey of 18th century documentation for the Child Ballads and I tried to put all of these I could find onto Coffin's list. But I did this using Thigpen's list of source singers/recitiers. This was a complicated process and forced me to consider the collections from the first 25 years or so of the 19th century from people like Scot and Motherwell, etc. But as many of you already know, that is where a lot of the "oral tradition" is to be found. I have put question marks where I could not find anything that would definitively place the source within the 18th century.

I will now publish these revisions in five separate posts.

Part I

18th Century Documentation from England & Scotland for Child Ballads Found in America

{1}RIDDLES WISELY EXPOUNDED—A
d. Pills to Purge Melancholy, iv, 130, ed. 1719.
RIDDLES WISELY EXPOUNDED—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 647. From the recitation of Mrs Storie.

{2}THE ELFIN KNIGHT—A
A broadside in black letter, "printed, I suppose," says Pinkerton, "about 1670," bound up with five other pieces at the end of a copy of Blind Harry's 'Wallace,' Edin. 1673, in the Pepysian Library.
THE ELFIN KNIGHT—C
Kinloch's A. S. Ballads, p. 145. From the recitation of M. Kinnear, a native of Mearnsshire, 23 Aug., 1826. [?]
THE ELFIN KNIGHT—I
Motherwell's MS., p. 103. From the recitation of John McWhinnie, collier, Newtown Green, Ayr.
THE ELFIN KNIGHT—J
Communicated by Rev. F. D. Huntington, Bishop of Western New York, as sung to him by his father in 1828, at Hadley, Mass.; derived from a rough, roystering "character" in the town.

{4}LADY ISABEL AND THE ELF-KNIGHT—G
British Museum, MS. Addit. 20094. Communicated to Mr T. Crofton Croker in 1829, as remembered by Mr W. Pigott Rogers, and believed by Mr Rogers to have been learned by him from an Irish nursery-maid.

{7}EARL BRAND—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 502. From the recitation of Mrs Notman.

{10}THE TWA SISTERS—A
A. a. Broadside "printed for Francis Grove, 1656," reprinted in Notes and Queries, 1st S., v, 591. b. Wit Restor'd, 1658, "p. 51," p. 153 of the reprint of 1817. c. Wit and Drollery, ed. 1682, p. 87, = Dryden's Miscellany, Part 3, p. 316, ed. 1716. d. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 315.
THE TWA SISTERS—B
a. Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 39. b. Wm. Tytler's Brown MS., No 15. c. Abbotsford MS., "Scottish Songs," fol. 21. d. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 48. [Brown 1783]
THE TWA SISTERS—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 383. From the recitation of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan, 27th July, 1825.
THE TWA SISTERS—G
Motherwell's MS., p. 104. From Mrs King, Kilbarchan.
THE TWA SISTERS—H
Motherwell's MS., p. 147. From I. Goldie, March, 1825. [?]
THE TWA SISTERS—I
Kinloch MSS, v, 425. From the recitation of M. Kinnear, 23d August, 1826. [?]
THE TWA SISTERS—K
Mr G. R. Kinloch's papers, Kinloch MSS, ii, 59. From Mrs Lindores. [?]
THE TWA SISTERS—L
a. From oral tradition, Notes and Queries, 1st S., v, 316. b. The Scouring of the White Horse, p. 161. From North Wales. Anna Seward to Walter Scott - a version of "Binnorie" "I first heard sung, with farcial grimace, in my infancy [born 1747], ..."
THE TWA SISTERS-Y
Communicated to Percy, april 7, 1770, and April 19, 1775, by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, near Ashford, Kent: "taken down from the mouth of the spinning-wheel, if I may be allowed the expression."

{11}THE CRUEL BROTHER—A
a. Alex. Fraser Tytler's Brown MS. b. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, i, 66, purporting to be from the recitation of Mrs Arrot of Aberbrothick.
THE CRUEL BROTHER—G
a. Herd's MSS, i, 41. b. Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, i, 88.
THE CRUEL BROTHER—I
Kinloch's MSS, i, 27. From Mrs Bouchart, an old lady native of Forfarshire.

{12}LORD RANDAL—A
From a small manuscript volume lent me by Mr William Macmath, of Edinburgh, containing four pieces written in or about 1710, and this ballad in a later hand. Charles Mackie, August, 1808, is scratched upon the binding.
LORD RANDAL—R
Pitcairn's MSS, III, 11. "From tradition: widow Stevenson."
LORD RANDALL-S
Communicated to Percy by Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, near Ashford, Kent, April 19, 1775; taken down by a friend of Mr Parsons "from the spinning-wheel, in Suffolk."

{13}EDWARD—A
Motherwell's MS., p. 139. From Mrs King, Kilbarchan. b. Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 339.
EDWARD—B
Percy's Reliques, 1765, i, 53. Communicated by Sir David Dalrymple.

{14}BABYLON; OR, THE BONNIE BANKS O FORDIE—B
Herd's MSS, i, 38, ii, 76. b. The Scots Magazine, Oct., 1803, p. 699, communicated by Jamieson, and evidently from Herd's copy. [Child: "B a is from tradition of the latter half of the eighteenth century; the other copies from the earlier part of this."]
BABYLON; OR, THE BONNIE BANKS O FORDIE—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 172. From J. Goldie, March, 1825. [?]
BABYLON; OR, THE BONNIE BANKS O FORDIE—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 174. From the recitation of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan, July 27, 1825.

{17}HIND HORN—A
Motherwell's MS., p. 106. From Mrs King, Kilbarchan.
HIND HORN—C
a. Motherwell's Note-Book, p. 42: from Agnes Lyle. b. Motherwell's MS., p. 413: from the singing of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan, August 24, 1825.
HIND HORN—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 91. From the recitation of Mrs Wilson.
HIND HORN—G
Kinloch MSS, VII, 117. It appears to have been derived by Miss Kinnear from Christy Smith. [?]

{18}SIR LIONEL—A
Percy MS., p. 32, Hales and Furnivall, i, 75. [1765, 1794]

{20}THE CRUEL MOTHER—A
Herd's MSS, i, 132, ii, 191: Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, 1776, ii, 237.
THE CRUEL MOTHER—B
Johnson's Museum, p. 331. b. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1803, iii, 259, preface. [Child: "Two fragments of this ballad, A, B, were printed in the last quarter of the eighteenth century;..."]
THE CRUEL MOTHER—E
a. Motherwell's MS., p. 390. b. Motherwell's Note-Book, p. 33. From the recitation of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan, August 24, 1825. [?]
THE CRUEL MOTHER—H
Motherwell's MS., p. 402. From Agnes Laird, Kilbarchan, August 24, 1825.
THE CRUEL MOTHER—J
Harris MS., fol. 10, "Mrs Harris and others." b. Fragment communicated by Dr T. Davidson.

{26}THE THREE RAVENS
a. Melismata. Musicall Phansies. Fitting the Court, Cittie, and Countrey Humours. London, 1611, No 22. [T. Ravenscroft.] Child says: "printed by Ritson, in his Ancient Songs, 1790,...."
THE THREE RAVENS
a version from E. Peacock, Lincolnshire, "whose father, born in 1793, heard it as a boy at harvest suppers and sheep-shearings, and took down a copy from the recitation of Harry Richard, a laborer, who cold not read and had leart it 'from his fore-elders.'
Percy MS., p. 46. Hales & Furnivall, I, 105; Madden's Syr Gawayne, p. 288; Percy's Reliques, ed. 1794, III, 350.

{37}THOMAS RYMER—A
Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 1: Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 7. Mrs. Brown
THOMAS RYMER—C
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 251, ed. 1802. [Child says: "A is one of the nine ballads transmitted to Alexander Fraser Tytler by Mrs Brown in April, 1800, as written down from her recollection."]


{38}THE WEE WEE MAN—A
Herd's MSS, I, 153, Herd's Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 95.
THE WEE WEE MAN—E
a. Motherwell's Note-Book, fol. 40, "from Agnes Lyle;" Motherwell's MS., p. 195, "from the recitation of Agnes Laird, Kilbarchan." b. Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 343.
THE WEE WEE MAN—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 68, "from the recitation of Mrs Wilson, of the Renfrewshire Tontine; now of the Caledonian Hotel, Inverness."

{42}CLERK COLVILL—A
From a transcript from William Tytler's Brown MS. Mrs. Brown
CLERK COLVILL—B
Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 302: ed. 1776, I, 161.

{45}KING JOHN AND THE BISHOP—A
Percy MS., p. 184. Hales and Furnivall, I, 508.
KING JOHN AND THE BISHOP—B
Broadside, printed for P. Brooksby, at the Golden Ball in Pye-corner (1672-95).
KING JOHN AND THE BISHOP - P
"was printed and sold by John White, Newcastle-upon-tyne, "circa 1777:"


{46}CAPTAIN WEDDERBURN'S COURTSHIP—A
a. Herd's MS., I, 161. b. The same, II, 100.
CAPTAIN WEDDERBURN'S COURTSHIP—B
Kinloch MSS, I, 83, from Mary Barr's recitation. b. Lord Roslin's Daughter's Garland. c. Buchan's MSS, II, 34. d. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 159. e. Harris MS., fol. 19 b, No 14, from Mrs Harris's recitation. f. Notes and Queries, 2d S., IV, 170, "as sung among the peasantry of the Mearns," 1857. [from Child: "Jamieson writes to the Scots Magazine, 1803, p. 701: " Of this ballad I have got one whole copy and part of another, and I remember a good deal of it as I have heard it sung in Morayshire when I was a child."]

{49}THE TWA BROTHERS—A
Sharpe's Ballad Book, p. 56, No 19. [from Elizabeth Kerry, 1823 ?]
THE TWA BROTHERS—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 259. From Widow McCormick, January 19, 1825.[?]

{51}LIZIE WAN—A
Herd's MSS, I, 151; stanzas 1-6, II, p. 78. Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 91.
LIZIE WAN—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 398. From the recitation of Mrs Storie, Lochwinnich.

{52}THE KING'S DOCHTER LADY JEAN—A
a. Motherwell's MS., p. 657. From the recitation of Mrs Storie, Lochwinnich. b. Motherwell's Minstrelsy, Appendix, p. xxi, No XXIII, one stanza.

{53}YOUNG BEICHAN—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 13. [Child says: "Mr. Macmath has ascertained that Mrs Brown was born in 1747. She learned most of her ballads before she was twelve years old, or before 1759. 1783, or a little earlier, is the date when these copies were taken down from her singing or recitation."]
YOUNG BEICHAN—B
Glenriddell MSS, XI, 80. [1791]
YOUNG BEICHAN—C
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 11, [c. 1783] b. Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 127.
YOUNG BEICHAN—D
"The Old Lady's Collection," from which it was copied by Skene, No. 14.
YOUNG BEICHAN—F
Pitcairn's MSS, III, 159, 1817-25. From the recitation of Widow Stevenson, aged seventy-three: "East Country."
YOUNG BEICHAN—I
Communicated by Mr David Louden, as recited by Mrs Dodds, Morham, Haddington, the reciter being above seventy in 1873. [?]
YOUNG BEICHAN
from Mrs Christiana Greenwood, London, to Scott, 1806, "as heard by her in her youth at Longnewton, near Jedburgh, "where most of the old women could sing it."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 07:55 PM

Part 2

{54}THE CHERRY-TREE CAROL—B
Husk, Songs of the Nativity, p. 59, from a Worcester broadside of the last century. b. Hone's Ancient Mysteries, p. 90, from various copies. c. Sylvester, A Garland of Christmas Carols, p. 45. d. Birmingham chap-book, of about 1843, in B. Harris Cowper's Apocryphal Gospels, p. xxxviii.

{56}DIVES AND LAZARUS—A
a. Sylvester, A Garland of Christmas Carols, p. 50, from an old Birmingham broadside. b. Husk, Songs of the Nativity, p. 94, from a Worcestershire broadside of the last century.

{58}SIR PATRICK SPENS—A
a. Percy's Reliques, 1765, I, 71: "given from two MS. copies, transmitted from Scotland." b. Herd's Scots Songs, 1769, p. 243.
SIR PATRICK SPENS—B
Herd's MSS., II, 27, I, 49.
SIR PATRICK SPENS—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 493, "from the recitation of --- Buchanan, alias Mrs Notman, 9 September, 1826."
SIR PATRICK SPENS—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 153, from the recitation of Mrs Thomson. [?]
SIR PATRICK SPENS—H
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, III, 64, ed. 1803; I, 299, ed. 1833; "taken from two MS. copies, collated with several verses recited by the editor's friend, Robert Hamilton, Esq., Advocate." [Child says: "...H, was made up from two versions, the better of which was G, and five stanzas, 16-20, recited by Mr Hamilton, sheriff of Lanarkshire. Mr Hamilton is said to have got his fragment "from an old nurse, a retainer of the Gilkerscleugh family," when himself a boy, about the middle of the last century."]
SIR PATRICK SPENS—J
Miss Harris's MS., fol. 4, from the singing of her mother.
SIR PATRICK SPENS—L
Motherwell's Note-Book, p. 6, Motherwell's MS., p. 156, from Mrs Gentles, Paisley, February 1825. [?]
SIR PATRICK SPENS—O
Gibb MS., p. 63. [?]

{62}FAIR ANNIE—A
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 102, 1802, chiefly from the recitation of an old woman residing near Kirkhill, in West Lothian.
FAIR ANNIE—C
Motherwell's manuscript, p. 351, from the recitation of Janet Holmes, an old woman in Kilbarchan, who derived the ballad from her mother; July 18, 1825.
FAIR ANNIE—D
Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 307.
FAIR ANNIE—E
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 20; Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 371. [1783 from Mrs. Brown]
FAIR ANNIE—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 385; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 327. From the recitation of Mrs Rule, Paisley, August 16, 1825. [?]

{63}CHILD WATERS—A
Percy MS., p. 274; Hales and Furnivall, II, 269.
CHILD WATERS—B
a. Jamieson's Brown MS., fol. 22, taken down from Mrs Brown's recitation before 1783. b. A. Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 9, as recited by Mrs Brown in 1800.
CHILD WATERS—E
Harris MS., No 8, fol. 12 b: originally from Jannie Scott, an old nurse in Perthshire, about 1790.
CHILD WATERS—K
From "Old Lady's Collection" of Northern Scotland

{65}LADY MAISRY—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 24. From Mrs. Brown
LADY MAISRY—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 1, from the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, February 25, 1825; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 234.
LADY MAISRY—I
a. Motherwell's MS., p. 235; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 221. b. Motherwell's MS., p. 179, from Mrs Thomson, of Kilbarchan. c. Motherwell's MS., p. 181, from Mrs McLean, of Glasgow. [?]
LADY MAISRY—J
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 71, MS. of Thomas Wilkie, p. 71, Abbotsford. "From the recitation of Janet Scott, Bowden, who sung a dysmal air, as she called it, to the words."
LADY MAISRY—K
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 22 f; in the handwriting of William Laidlaw. "From Jean Scott."

{68}YOUNG HUNTING—A
a. Herd's MSS, I, 182; b. the same, II, 67.
YOUNG HUNTING—C
Harris MS., fol. 8, from Mrs Harris, Perthshire. [68 C, b, fr. Miss Bower]
YOUNG HUNTING—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 377; from Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan.
YOUNG HUNTING—E
Scott's Minstrelsy, III, 265, 1803, communicated by James Hogg, from the recitation of his mother (Motherwell).
YOUNG HUNTING—F
a. Motherwell's MS., p. 61, from the recitation of Miss Stevenson of Glasgow, January 22, 1825; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 218. b. Motherwell's Minstrelsy, Appendix, p. xvii, VIII, one stanza.
YOUNG HUNTING—G
Herd's MSS, I, 34; Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 148.
YOUNG HUNTING—J
Scott's Minstrelsy, II, 42, 1802, and III, 184, 1833, from Herd's copies (A, G), and from tradition.

{73}LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—A
Percy's Reliques, 1765, II, 293, "given, with some corrections, from a MS. copy transmitted from Scotland."
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—B
Kinloch MSS, I, 1, from the recitation of Mary Barr, Lesmahago.
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 157, from the recitation of Agnes Laird, Kilbarchan, 1825. [?]
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—D
a. Pepys Ballads, III, 316, No 312. b. A Collection of Old Ballads, I, 249, 1723. c. Ritson, Select Collection of English Songs, II, 187, 1783. d. Buchan's Gleanings, p. 86. e, f, g, h, i, recited copies. [#73 D, e, from the Widow McCormick, of Paisley, Motherwell's MSS, 1825]
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—G
Skene MS., p. 104; ["Old Lady's Collection"] northeast of Scotland, 1802-03.
LORD THOMAS AND FAIR ANNET—I
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 22 h; in the handwriting of William Laidlaw. From Jean Scott.

{74}FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM—A
Douce Ballads, I, fol. 72. b. Ritson, A Select Collection of English Songs, 1783, II, 190. c. Percy's Reliques, 1765, III, 121. d. Percy's Reliques, 1767, III, 119.
FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM—B
Communicated to Percy by the Dean of Derry, as written down from memory by his mother, Mrs Bernard; February, 1776.
FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM—C
Communicated to Percy by Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, April 7, 1770.
FAIR MARGARET AND SWEET WILLIAM
"Communicated by Miss Mary E. Burleigh, of Worcester MA, and deriaved, through a relative, from her great-grandmother, who had heard the ballad sung at gatherings of young people in Webster, MA, not long after 1820."

{75}LORD LOVEL—A
Percy Papers, communicated by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, from singing; May 22, 1770, and April 19, 1775.
LORD LOVEL—G
Harris MS., fol. 28 b, from the recitation of Mrs Molison, Dunlappie.

{76}THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—A
Cochrane's Songbook, p. 151, No 114.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—B
Herd's MS, I, 144; II, 60, the first ten lines; Herd's Scottish Songs, 1776, I, 149.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—C
Pitcairn's MSS, III, 1, from the singing of Widow Stevenson.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—D
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 27; Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 36. [From Mrs. Brown]
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—E
a. Alexander Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 2, written down from Mrs Brown's recitation in 1800. b. Scott's Minstrelsy, II, 49, 1802.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL—F
Herd MS., I, 31, II, 65.
THE LASS OF ROCH ROYAL/"THE LASS OF OCRAM"
"There is a version of this ballad in the Roxburghe collection, III, 488, a folio slip without imprint, dated in the Museum Catalogue 1740....Mr Ebsworth in the Roxburghe Ballads, VI 609...puts the date of issue circa 1765"

{77}SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST—A
Ramsay's Tea Table Miscellany, "4th volume, 1740;" here from the London edition of 1763, p. 324.
SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST—B
Herd's MSS, I, 177, II, 49, stanzas 27 ff.
SWEET WILLIAM'S GHOST—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 262, Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 186, from the recitation of Mrs McCormick, and learned by her in Dumbarton, from an old woman, thirty years before: January 19, 1825.

{79}THE WIFE OF USHER'S WELL—B
Kinloch MSS, V, 403, stanzas 18-23. In the handwriting of James Chambers, as sung to his maternal grandmother, Janet Grieve, seventy years before, by an old woman, a Miss Ann Gray, of the Neidpath Castle, Peeblesshire: January 1, 1829. [?]   

{81}LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—A
Wit Restord, 1658, in the reprint 'Facetiæ,' London, 1817, I, 293. b. Wit and Drollery, 1682, p. 81.
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—B
Percy MS., p. 53, Hales and Furnivall, I, 119.
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—C
a. Pepys Ballads, I, 364, No 187. b. Pepys Ballads, III, 314, No 310. c. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 146. d. Roxburge Ballads, III, 340. e. Bagford Ballads, I, 36.
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—G
Motherwell's MS., p. 643, from the recitation of Mrs McConechie, Kilmarnock. [?]
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—I
Motherwell's MS., p. 305, from the recitation of Rebecca Dunse, 4th May, 1825: one of her mother's songs, an old woman.
LITTLE MUSGRAVE AND LADY BARNARD—J
Motherwell's MS., p. 371, from the recitation of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan.

{83}CHILD MAURICE—A
Percy MS., p. 346; Hales and Furnivall, II, 502.
CHILD MAURICE—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 255; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 282. From the singing of Widow McCormick, Paisley, January 19, 1825. Learned by her of an old woman in Dumbarton: Motherwell's Note Book, fol. 4.
CHILD MAURICE—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 510, from the singing of Mrs Storie, wife of William Storie, laborer, Lochwinnoch. A song of Mrs Storie's grandmother. [See Child's end notes for this ballad]
CHILD MAURICE—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 480, from the recitation of Widow Michael, a very old woman, as learned by her in Banffshire seventy years before. August, 1826. [Child's notes]
CHILD MAURICE—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 165; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 269. From the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, seventy years of age, as learned from her mother at the Water of Leven, Dumbarton, when she was ten years old. March, 1825. [Child's notes]
CHILD MAURICE—F
Percy's Reliques, III, 93, 1765. b. Letter of T. Gray to Mason, June, 1757 (?): Gray's Works, ed. Gosse, II, 316.
?CHILD MAURICE—G
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 18; Jamieson, in The Scots Magazine, 1803, LXV, 698, stanzas 1, 3.

{84}BONNY BARBARA ALLAN—A
a. The Tea-Table Miscellany, IV, 46, ed. 1740; here from the London edition of 1763, p. 343. b. Percy's Reliques, III, 131, ed. 1765, "with a few conjectural emendations from a written copy."
BONNY BARBARA ALLAN—B
a. Roxburghe Ballads, II, 25; reprint of the Ballad Society, III, 433. b. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 522. c. A broadside formerly belonging to Bishop Percy. d. Percy's Reliques, 1765, III, 125.
BONNY BARBARA ALLAN—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 288; from Mrs Duff, Kilbirnie, February 9, 1825. [?]


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 07:58 PM

Part 3

{87}PRINCE ROBERT—A
Scott's Minstrelsy, II, 124, ed. 1802; III, 269, ed. 1833: from the recitation of Miss Christian Rutherford.
PRINCE ROBERT—B
Motherwell's MS. p. 149,; Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 200: from the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, a native of Bonhill, Dumbartonshire, aged betwixt sixty and seventy.
PRINCE ROBERT—C [?]
Motherwell's MS., p. 321, from Agnes Laird, Kilbarchan, June 21, 1825. [?]

{88}YOUNG JOHNSTONE—A
Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 305.
YOUNG JOHNSTONE—B
a. Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 193, from the recitation of Mrs Gentles, Paisley. b. Finlay's Scottish Ballads, II, 71, from two recited copies. [?]
YOUNG JOHNSTONE—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 310, from the recitation of Jeanie Nicol, May 4, 1825. [?]

{90}JELLON GRAME—A
a. A. Fraser Tytler's Brown MS., No 4. b. Scott's Minatrelsy, II, 20, 1802. [From Mrs. Brown]

{93}LAMKIN—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 176, communicated by Mrs Brown.
LAMKIN—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 15; from the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, February 25, 1825.
LAMKIN—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 9: from Edward King, weaver, Kilbarchan, taken from the recitation of his mother, an old woman.
LAMKIN—E
Kinloch MSS, V, 246, from Mary Barr.
LAMKIN—F
a. Notes and Queries, Second Series, II, 324, as sung by a nurse nearly a century ago [1856] in Northumberland. b. Notes and Queries, Fourth Series, II, p. 281, from Northamptonshire, communicated by Mr B. H. Cowper.
LAMKIN—I
Skene MSS, p. 75, ["Old Lady's Collection"] North of Scotland, 1802-03.
LAMKIN—K
Communicated to Percy by Rev. P. Parsons, of Wye, near Ashford, Kent, April 19, 1775.
LAMKIN—P
Herd's MSS, I, 25.
Child says: "The negroes of Dumfries, Prince William County, Virginia, have this ballad, orally transmitted from the original Scottish settlers of that region, with the stanza found in F (19) and T (14):
        Mr Lammikin, Mr Lammikin,
        oh, spare me my life,
        And I'll give you my daughter Betsy,
        And she shall be your wife.
"They sang it to a monotonous measure." (Mrs. Dulany)"

{95}THE MAID FREED FROM THE GALLOWS—A
Communicated to Percy, April 7, 1770, by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wey, from oral tradition.
THE MAID FREED FROM THE GALLOWS—B
Motherwell MS., p. 290, from the recitation of Widow McCormick; learned in Dumbarton.

{96}THE GAY GOSHAWK—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., No 6, pt 15. [From Mrs. Brown]
THE GAY GOSHAWK—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 230: from the recitation of Mrs Bell, of Paisley, and of Miss Montgomerie, of Edinburgh, her sister.
THE GAY GOSHAWK—D
Motherwell's Note-Book, pp 27-30, Motherwell's MS., pp 415-17; from Agnes Laird, Kilbarchan, August 24, 1825. [?]
THE GAY GOSHAWK—E
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, II, 7, 1802; III, 151, 1833.

{99}JOHNIE SCOT—A
Jamieson-Brown MS., fol. 5. [From Mrs. Brown]
JOHNIE SCOT—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 213: from the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan.
JOHNIE SCOT—D
Motherwell MS., p. 205: a, "words and tune from Mrs McNiccol," of Paisley, native of the parish of Houston; b, variations from "John Lindsay, cowfeeder, Wallace Street, Paisley." [?]
JOHNIE SCOT—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 113; from the recitation of T. Risk. [?]
JOHNIE SCOT—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 211; from the recitation of Agnes Laird, Kilbarchan, 21 June, 1825.
JOHNIE SCOT—G
Motherwell's Note-Book, p. 35, Motherwell MS., p. 394; from the singing of Agnes Lyle, of Kilbarchan, 24 August, 1825.

{100}WILLIE O WINSBURY—B
Herd's MSS, I, 29; II, 98.
WILLIE O WINSBURY—D
Communicated to Percy by the Rev. P. Parsons, of Wey, apparently in 1775. "This I had from the spinning-wheel."
WILLIE O WINSBURY—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 404; from the recitation of Agnes Laird, of Kilbarchan, August 24, 1825. [?]

{105}THE BAILIFF'S DAUGHTER OF ISLINGTON
Printed for P. Brooksby, Roxburghe Ballads, II, 457. b. Printed for J. Walter, Douce Ballads, II, fol. 229. c. Printed for P. Brooksby, Pepys Ballads, III, 258, No 256. d. Printed for P. Brooksby, Roxburghe Ballads, IV, 56. e. Printed for P. Brooksby, Douce Ballads, II, fol. 230. f. An Aldermary Churchyard copy.

{106}THE FAMOUS FLOWER OF SERVING-MEN
Wood, E. 25, fol. 75, Bodleian Library. b. Pepys, III, 142, No 140, Magdalen College Library, Cambridge. c. A Collection of Old Ballads, I, 216, 1723.
And a fragment from the recitation of Mrs. Barnard, the wife of the Bishop of Derry and mother of the Dean of Derry who sent it to Percy in 1776.

{110}THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—A
a. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 160, 161. b. The same, II, 30, 31. [1765]
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—B
Kinloch MSS, V, 255, in the handwriting of Mr Kinloch. [?]
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—C
Kinloch's MSS, VII, 69; apparently from the recitation of Mrs Charles of Torry, Aberdeen, born in Mearnshire.
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—D
Kinloch's MSS, VII, 68; apparently from the recitation of Jenny Watson of Lanark, aged seventy-three. Only such portions of this version were preserved as differed considerably from C.
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—E
a. Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland, II, 81, from Mr Nicol of Strichen, as learned in his youth from old people. b. Motherwell's MS., p. 459, derived, no doubt, from Buchan.
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—K
Motherwell's MS., p. 226. From the recitation of Widow McCormick, Westbrae, Paisley, 1825; learned of an old woman in Dumbarton, thirty or forty years before.
THE KNIGHT AND SHEPHERD'S DAUGHTER—N
[From the "Old Lady's Collection"]

{112}THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—A
Ravenscroft's Deuteromelia, or, The Second Part of Musick's Melodie, or Melodious Musicke, etc., E 4, London, 1609. Ritson's Ancient Songs, 1790, p. 159. b. Pills to Purge Melancholy, III, 37, 1719.
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—B
Pills to Purge Melancholy, V, 112, 1719.
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—C
a. A Collection of Old Ballads, III, 178, 1725. b. Pepys Ballads, V, 169 ff, Nos 162-164, end of the 17th century, the first fifty stanzas. c. Douce Ballads, III, fol. 52 b, Durham: Printed and sold by I. Lane. d. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 674, 1750 (?).
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—D
a. Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots, p. 328, 1769. b. Dixon, Ancient Poems, Ballads and Songs of the Peasantry of England, p. 123, Percy Society, vol. xvii; Bell, p. 80.
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT—E
Motherwell's MS., p. 410: from the singing of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan, September, 1825.
THE BAFFLED KNIGHT
The Complete Collection of Old and New English and Scotch Songs, 1735...repetitions from earlier publications;...."

{114}JOHNIE COCK—A
Communicated to Percy by Miss Fisher, of Carlisle, 1780, No 5 of MS.
JOHNIE COCK—G
Harris MS., fol. 25: from Mrs Harris's recitation.

{118}ROBIN HOOD AND GUY OF GISBORNE
Percy MS., p. 262; Hales and Furnivall, II, 227.

{120}ROBIN HOOD'S DEATH—A
Percy MS., p. 21; Hales and Furnivall, I, 53.
ROBIN HOOD'S DEATH—B
The English Archer, Paisley, printed by John Neilson for George Caldwell, Bookseller, near the Cross, 1786, p. 81, No 24. b. The English Archer, York, printed by N. Nickson, in Feasegate, n. d., p. 70.

{122}ROBIN HOOD AND THE BUTCHER—A (from Roud: Wolfe '97)
Percy MS., p. 7; Hales and Furnivall, I, 19.
ROBIN HOOD AND THE BUTCHER—B
a. Wood, 401, leaf 19 b. b. Garland of 1663, No 6. c. Garland of 1670, No 5. d. Pepys, II, 102, No 89.

{125}ROBIN HOOD AND LITTLE JOHN
A Collection of Old Ballads, 1723, I, 75. b. Aldermary Garland, by R.Marshall, n. d., No 22.

{126}ROBIN HOOD AND THE TANNER
a. Wood, 401, leaf 9 b.
b. Garland of 1663, No 10.
c. Garland of 1670, No 9.
Pepys, II, 111, No 98.
{132}THE BOLD PEDLAR AND ROBIN HOOD ?
H. Dixon, Ancient Poems, Ballads, and Songs of the Peasantry of England, p.71, Percy Society, vol. xvii, 1846.

{138}ROBIN HOOD AND ALLEN A DALE (from Roud: Roberts & Agey, '78)
a. 'Robin Hood and Allin of Dale,' Douce, II, leaf 185.
b. 'Robin Hood and Allin of Dale,' Pepys, II, 110, No 97.
c. 'Robin Hood and Allen a Dale,' Douce, III, 119 b.

{139}ROBIN HOOD'S PROGRESS TO NOTTINGHAM
a. Wood, 402, leaf 14 b. b. Wood, 401, leaf 37 b. c. Garland of 1663, No 2. d. Garland of 1670, No. 1. e. Pepys, II, 104, No 92.

{140}ROBIN HOOD RESCUING THREE SQUIRES—A
Percy MS., p.5; Hales and Furnivall, I, 13; Jamieson's Popular Ballads, II, 49.
ROBIN HOOD RESCUING THREE SQUIRES—B
The English Archer, Robin Hood's Garland, York, N. Nickson, n. d., p. 65. b. The English Archer, etc., Paisley, John Neilson, 1786. c. Adventures of Robin Hood, Falkirk, T. Johnston, 1808.
ROBIN HOOD RESCUING THREE SQUIRES—C
Robin Hood's Garland. a. London, printed by W. & C. Dicey, in St. Mary Aldermary Church Yard, Bow Lane, Cheapside, and sold at the Warehouse at Northampton, n. d.: p. 74, No 24. b. London, printed by L. How, in Peticoat Lane, n. d.: p. 23. c. York, T. Wilson and R. Spence, n. d.: p. 27. d. Preston, W. Sergent, n. d.: p. 62. e. London, printed and sold by J. Marshall & Co., Aldermary Church Yard, Bow Lane, n. d.: No 24. f. Wolverhampton, printed and sold by J. Smart, n. d.

{141}ROBIN HOOD RESCUING WILL STUTLY
a. Wood, 401, leaf 35 b.
b. Garland of 1663, No 7.
c. Garland of 1670, No 6.
d. Pepys, II, 106, No 93.

{155}SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 151, as taken down by the editor from Mrs Brown's recitation.
SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—B
Percy's Reliques, I, 32, 1765; from a manuscript copy sent from Scotland.
SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—C
Percy papers; communicated to Percy by Paton, in 1768 or 69, and derived from a friend of Paton's.
SIR HUGH, OR, THE JEW'S DAUGHTER—D
Herd's MS., I, 213; stanzas 7-10, II, 219.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:01 PM

Part 4

{156}QUEEN ELEANOR'S CONFESSION—A
a. A broadside, London, Printed for C. Bates, at the Sun & Bible in Gilt-spur-street, near Pye-corner, Bagford Ballads, II, No 26, 1685? b. A broadside, Printed for C. Bates, in Pye-corner, Bagford Ballads, I, No 33, 1685? c. Another copy of b, reprinted in Utterson's Little Book of Ballads, p. 22. d. A Collection of Old Ballads, 1723, I, 18.
QUEEN ELEANOR'S CONFESSION—B
Skene MS., p. 39. [From an "Old Lady's Collection"]

{157}GUDE WALLACE—A
A chap-book of Four New Songs and a Prophecy, 1745? The Scots Musical Museum, 1853, D. Laing's additions, IV, 458; Maidment, Scotish Ballads and Songs, 1859, p. 83.
GUDE WALLACE—B
Communicated to Percy by R. Lambe, of Norham, apparently in 1768.

{162}THE HUNTING OF THE CHEVIOT—A
MS. Ashmole, 48, Bodleian Library, in Skeat's Specimens of English Literature, 1394-1579, ed. 1880, p. 67. [Percy 1765]
THE HUNTING OF THE CHEVIOT—B Chevy Chase
a. Percy MS., p. 188, Hales and Furnivall, II, 7. b. Pepys Ballads, I, 92, No 45, broadside printed for M. G. c. Douce Ballads, fol. 27b, and Roxburghe Ballads, III, 66, broadside printed for F. Coles, T. Vere, and J. Wright. d. Wood's Ballads, 401, 48, broadside printed for F. Coles, T. Vere, and W. Gilbertson. e. Bagford Ballads, I, No 32, broadside printed by and for W. Onley. f. A Scottish. copy, without printer.

{164}KING HENRY FIFTH'S CONQUEST OF FRANCE
a-d, broadsides. a. Among Percy's papers. b. Roxburghe Ballads, III, 358. c. Jewitt's Ballads and Songs of Derbyshire, p. 1. d. Chetham's Library, Manchester, in Hales and Furnivall, Percy's Folio MS., II, 597. e. Percy papers, "taken down from memory." f. Nicolas, History of the Battle of Agincourt, 1832, Appendix, p. 78, from the recitation of a very aged person. g. The same, p. 80, source not mentioned. h. Tyler, Henry of Monmouth, II, 197, apparently from memory. i. Percy Society, XVII, Dixon, Ancient Poems, etc., p. 52, from singing. j. Skene MS., p. 42. k. Macmath MS., p. 27, from tradition. 1, m. Buchan's MSS, I, 176, II, 124, probably broadside or stall copies.

{167}SIR ANDREW BARTON—A
Percy MS., p. 490; Hales and Furnivall, III, 399. [Child says: "Given in Old Ballads, 1723, 159; in Percy's Reliques, 1765, II, ...Ritson's Select Colelction of English Songs, 1783, I...."]
SIR ANDREW BARTON—B
Douce Ballads, I, 18 b. b. Pepys Ballads, I, 484, No 249. c. Wood Ballads, 401, 55. d. Roxburghe Ballads, I, 2. e. Bagford Ballads, 643, m. 9 (61). f. Bagford Ballads, 643, m. 10 (77). g. Wood Ballads, 402, 37. h. Glenriddell MSS, XI, 20.

{170}THE DEATH OF QUEEN JANE—A
Communicated to Percy by the Dean of Derry, as written from memory by his mother, Mrs. Bernard, February, 1776.
THE DEATH OF QUEEN JANE—C
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 182; "from two fragments, one transmitted from Arbroath and another from Edinburgh." b. Herd's MSS, I, 103.

{173}MARY HAMILTON—C
Motherwell's MS. p. 265; from Mrs Crum, Dumbarton, 7 April, 1825. [?]
MARY HAMILTON—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 267; from the recitation of Miss Nancy Hamilton and Mrs Gentles, January, 1825. [?]
MARY HAMILTON—F
No 12 of "The Old Lady's Collection,"
MARY HAMILTON—J
Harris MS., fol. 10 b; "Mrs Harris and others."
MARY HAMILTON—K
Motherwell's MS., p. 96; from Jean Macqueen, Largs. [?]
MARY HAMILTON—L
Motherwell's MS., p. 280; from the recitation of Mrs Trail of Paisley. [?]
MARY HAMILTON—R
Burns, in a letter to Mrs Dunlop, January 25, 1790; Currie, II, 290, 1800.
MARY HAMILTON—U
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 92, Abbotsford. Communicated to Scott, 7th January, 1804, by Rev. George Paxton, Kilmaurs, near Kilmarnock, Ayrshire (afterwards professor of divinity at Edinburgh); from the mouth of Jean Milne, his "aged mother, formerly an unwearied singer of Scotish songs."

{176}NORTHUMBERLAND BETRAYED BY DOUGLAS
Percy MS., p. 259; Hales and Furnivall, II, 217.


{178}CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—A
Cotton MS. Vespasian, A. xxv, No 67, fol. 187 of the last quarter of the 16th century, British Museum; ritson's ancient song, 1790, p 137; ...; Furnivall, in Transactions of the New Shakspere Society, 1880-86, Appendix, p. 52.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—B
Percy MS., p. 34; hales and Furnivall, I, 79.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—C
Communicated to Percy by Robert Lambe, Norham, October 4, 1766, being all that a servant of Lambe's could remember.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—D
Robert and Andrew Foulis, Glasgow, 1755; "as preserved in the memory of a lady."
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—G
Motherwell's MS., p. 543, from the recitation of May Richmond, at the Old Kirk of Loudon.
CAPTAIN CAR, OR, EDOM O GORDON—I
From "The Old Lady's Collection," No 28,

{181}THE BONNY EARL OF MURRAY—A
Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany, 1763, p. 356. [Percy 1765, Herd 1769, Riston 1794]

{185}DICK O THE COW
'An excelent old song cald Dick of the Cow.' Percy Papers, 1775. b. Caw's Poetical Museum, p. 22, 1784. c. Campbell, Albyn's Anthology, II, 31, 1818.

{187}JOCK O THE SIDE—A
Percy MS., p. 254; Hales and Furnivall, II, 203.
JOCK O THE SIDE—B
a. Caw's Poetical Museum, 1784, p. 145; "from an old manuscript copy." b. Campbell's Albyn's Anthology, II, 28; "taken down from the recitation of Mr Thomas Shortreed," of Jedburgh, "who learnt it from his father."
JOCK O THE SIDE—C
Percy Papers. "The imperfect copy sent me from Keelder, as collected from the memory of an old person by Mr William Hadley, in 1775."
JOCK O THE SIDE—D
Percy Papers. "These are scraps of the old song repeated to me by Mr Leadbeater, from the neighborhood of Hexham, 1774."

{188}ARCHIE O CAWFIELD—A
Communicated to Percy by Miss Fisher of Carlisle, 1780.
ARCHIE O CAWFIELD—B
a. Glenriddell MSS, XI, 14, 1791, "an old West Border ballad." b. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1833, II, 116.
ARCHIE O CAWFIELD—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 467, "received in MS. by Buchan from Mr Nicol, of Strichen, who wrote as he had learned early in life from old people:" Motherwell's Minstrelsy, p. 335.

{199}THE BONNIE HOUSE O AIRLIE—A
a. Sharpe's Ballad Book, p. 59, No 20, 1823 [fr. Mrs. Nairn] b. Finlay's Ballads, II, 25, 1808, from two recited copies and "one printed about twenty years ago on a single sheet." c. Skene MS., pp. 28, 54, from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3 [an "Old Lady's Collection"]. d. Campbell MSS, II, 113, probably from a stallcopy. e, f. Aberdeen stall copies, "printed for the booksellers." g. Hogg's Jacobite Relics, II, 152, No 76, "Cromek and a street ballad collated, 1821." h. Kinloch MSS, VI, 5, one stanza, taken down from an old woman's recitation by J. Robertson.   ["The earliest copy of this ballad hitherto found is a broadside of about 1790...."]
THE BONNIE HOUSE O AIRLIE—C
a. Kinloch MSS, V, 205, recited by John Rae. b. Cromek's Remains of Nithsdale and Galloway Song, p. 226, 1810. c. Smith's Scottish Minstrel, II, 2. d. Christie's Traditional Ballad Airs, II, 276, "from the recitation of a relative."

{200}THE GYPSY LADDIE—A
Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany, vol. iv, 1740. Here from the London edition of 1763, p. 427. [Herd 1769, 1776, Pinkerton 1783, Ritson 1794]
THE GYPSY LADDIE—C
Motherwell's MS., p. 381, from the recitation of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan, 27 July, 1825.
THE GYPSY LADDIE—F
The Songs of England and Scotland [by P. Cunningham], London, 1835, II, 346, taken down, as current in the north of England, from the recitation of John Martin, the painter.
THE GYPSY LADDIE—G
a. A broadside in the Roxburghe Ballads, III, 685, entered in the catalogue, doubtfully, as of Newcastle upon Tyne, 1720. b. A recent stall-copy, Catnach, 2 Monmouth Court, Seven Dials.
THE GYPSY LADDIE—K
a. From Mrs Helena Titus Brown of New York. b. From Miss Emma A. Clinch of New York. Derived, 1820, or a little later, a directly, b indirectly, from the singing of Miss Phœbe Wood, Huntington, Long Island, and perhaps learned from English soldiers there stationed during the Revolutionary war.

{201}BESSY BELL AND MARY GRAY
Sharpe's Ballad Book, 1823, p. 62. b. Lyle's Ancient Ballads and Songs, 1827, p. 160, "collated from the singing of two aged persons, one of them a native of Perthshire." c. Scott's Minstrelsy, 1833, I, 45, two stanzas. [Child says: "A squib on the birth of the Chevalier St Geroge, beginning
        Bessy Bell and Mary Grey,
        Those famous bonny lasses,
shows that this little ballad, or song, was very well known in the last years of the seventeenth century. The first stanza was made by Ramsay the beginning of a song of his own, and stands thus in Ramsay's Poem, Edinburgh, 1721, p. 80:
        O Bessy Bell and Mary Gray,
        They are tw bonny lasses;
        They bigged a bower on yon Burn-brae,
        And theekd it oer wi rashes.

{204}JAMIE DOUGLAS—A
Kinloch MSS, I, 93; from the recitation of Mary Barr, Lesmahago, Lanarkshire, May, 1827, and learned by her about sixty years before from an old dey at Douglas Castle.
JAMIE DOUGLAS—C
Kinloch MSS, V, 207, I, 103; from John Rae, Lesmahago.
JAMIE DOUGLAS—E
Kinloch MSS, VII, 127; 24 April, 1826, from the recitation of Jenny Watson, Lanark, aged 73, who had it from her grandmother.
JAMIE DOUGLAS—F
Motherwell's MS, p. 507; from the recitation of old Mrs Brown [a different Mrs. Brown], residing at Linsart, parish of Lochwinnoch, September, 1826.
JAMIE DOUGLAS—H
Motherwell's MS, p. 297; from the recitation of Mrs Traill of Paisley.
JAMIE DOUGLAS—I
Motherwell's MS., p. 500; from Mrs Notman.
JAMIE DOUGLAS—J
Motherwell's MS., p. 299; from the recitation of Rebecca Dunse, a native of Galloway, 4 May, 1825. "A song of her mother's, an old woman."
JAMIE DOUGLAS—K
Motherwell's MS., p. 302; from Jean Nicol. [?]
JAMIE DOUGLAS—M
Herd's MSS, I, 54. [1776]
Also: WALY, WALY, GIN LOVE BE BONY
Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany, the second volume, published before 1727; here from the Dublin edition of 1729, p. 176. b. Thomson's Orpheus Caledonius, seond edition, 1733, I, 71; four stanzas in the first edition, 1725, No 34. [Percy 1765, Herd 1796]
And from the Appendix:
ARTHUR'S SEAT SHALL BE MY BED, ETC., OR, LOVE IN DESPAIR
A new song much in request, sung with its own proper tune.
Laing, Broadsides Ballads, No. 61, not dated but considered to have been printed towards the end of the seventeenth or the beginning of the eighteenth century, and probably at Edinburgh.

{208}LORD DERWENTWATER—A
Motherwell's MS., p. 331, July 19, 1825, "from the recitation of Agnes Lile, Kilbarchan, a woman verging on fifty;" learned from her father, who died fourteen years before, at the age of eighty.
LORD DERWENTWATER—G
Motherwell's MS., p. 126, from the recitation of Mrs Trail, Paisley, July 9, 1825: a song of her mother's.
LORD DERWENTWATER—J
From "The Old Lady's Collection," second part, p. 6.

{209}GEORDIE—A
Johnson's Museum, No 346, p. 357, 1792; communicated by Robert Burns.
And from Appendix:
"A lamentable new ditty, made upon the death of a worthy gentleman named George Stoole...." Roxburghe Collection, I [Ritson 1793]
GEORDIE—B
a. "Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 13, Abbotsford. Sent to Scott by William Laidlaw, September 11, 1802 (Letters, vol. i, No 73), as written down by Laidlaw from the recitation of Mr Bartram of Biggar. b. Variations received by Laidlaw from J. Scott.
GEORDIE—C
a. "Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," Abbotsford, No 38, MS. of Thomas Wilkie, 1813-15, p. 16; taken down from the singing of Miss Christy Robertson, Dunse. B. "Scotch Ballads," etc., No 108, in a lady's hand, and perhaps obtained directly from Miss Robertson. [?]
GEORDIE—D
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 64, MS. of Thomas Wilkie, 1813-15, p. 50, Abbotsford. "I took this down from the recitation of Janet Scott, Bowden, who sung it to a beautiful plaintive old air." [?]
GEORDIE—F
Motherwell's MS., p. 367; from the recitation of Agnes Lyle, Kilbarchan.
GEORDIE—G
Motherwell's Note Book, p. 17, p. 10; from Mrs Rule, Paisley, August 16, 1825. Apparently learned from a blind aunt, pp. 1, 3.
GEORDIE—K
Motherwell's MS., p. 370, as sung by Agnes Lyle's father.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:05 PM

Part 5

{210}BONNIE JAMES CAMPBELL—A
Herd's MSS, I, 40, II, 184.

{214}THE BRAES O YARROW—A
Communicated to Percy by Dr William Robertson, Principal of Edinburgh.
THE BRAES O YARROW—C
Motherwell's MS., pp. 334, 331, from the recitation of Agnes Lile, Kilbarchan, July 19, 1825; learned from her father, who died fourteen years earlier, at the age of eighty. [b.1731?]
THE BRAES O YARROW—D
Communicated to Percy by Robert Lambe, Norham, April 16, 1768.
THE BRAES O YARROW—J
Taken down from the singing of Marion Miller, in Threepwood, in the parish of Melrose. In Thomas Wilkie's handwriting, "Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 107, Abbotsford. Another copy in Thomas Wilkie's MS., 1813-15, p. 57, No 67 of "Scotch Ballads," etc. [?]
THE BRAES O YARROW—K
Campbell MS., I, 8; "communicated by Janet Ormstone, Innerleithen, who sung it to a beautiful old air." [?]
THE BRAES O YARROW—L
Blackwood's Magazine, CXLVII, 741, June, 1890; communicated by Professor John Veitch, as received from William Welsh, a Peeblesshire cottar and poet, born 1799, whose mother used to recite the ballad, and whose grandmother had a copy in her father's handwriting.
THE BRAES O YARROW—N
Communicated to Scott by Mrs Christiana Greenwood, London, May 27, 1806 (Letters, I, No 189); presumably learned by her at Longuewton, near Jedburgh. "Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 84, Abbotsford.
THE BRAES O YARROW—O
Herd's MSS, I, 35, II, 181. [Ritson 1794]

{215}RARE WILLIE DROWNED IN YARROW, OR, THE WATER O GAMRIE—A
Thomson's Orpheus Caledonius, II, 110, 1733.
RARE WILLIE DROWNED IN YARROW, OR, THE WATER O GAMRIE—B
a. Cromek's Select Scotish Songs, 1810, II, 196; eighth and ninth stanzas of a fragment sent William Tytler by Burns in 1790. b. Stenhouse's edition of the Musical Museum, 1853, IV, 464.
And in the Appendix:
"ALLAN WATER" /ANNAN WATER
"mentioned in Ramsay's Tea-Table Miscellany...1729"
RARE WILLIE DROWNED IN YARROW, OR, THE WATER O GAMRIE—D
Skene MS., p. 47; taken down from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3. [An "Old Lady's Collection"]

{217}THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—A
Percy papers; communicated to Percy by R. Lambe, of Norham, August 17, 1768, and dated May, 1768.
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—B
Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 308. b. Johnson's Museum, No 110, p. 113.
"The Broom of Cowdenknows,' a "new" song, in the Tea-Table Miscellany, p. 22, Dublin, 1729...."
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—C
Kinloch MSS, VII, 143, from the recitation of Jenny Watson, 24 April, 1826; Clydesdale.
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—D
Motherwell's MS., p. 517; from the singing of Mrs Storie, of Lochwinnoch.
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—E
Motherwell's Manuscript, p. 175; "from the recitation of Mrs Thomson, Kilbarchan, a native of Dumbartonshire, where she learned it."
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—H
Kinloch MSS, I, 137; from Mrs Boutchart.
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—I
Kinloch MSS, VII, 153; from the recitation of Miss M. Kinnear, August 23, 1826, a North Country version. [?]
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—J
Kinloch MSS, VI, 11; in the handwriting of Dr Joseph Robertson, and given him by his mother, Christian Leslie.
THE BROOM OF COWDENKNOWS—N
Kinloch MSS, I, 145; from Mary Barr.

{221}KATHARINE JAFFARY—C
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No 30, Abbotsford. Sent Scott by William Laidlaw, in September, 1802; obtained by him from Jean Scott.
KATHARINE JAFFARY—D
"Scotch Ballads, Materials for Border Minstrelsy," No. 3, Abbotsford. Sent Scott September 11, 1802, by William Laidlaw; received by him from Mr Bartram of Biggar.
KATHARINE JAFFARY—E
Skene MS., p. 81; taken down in the north of Scotland, 1802-3. [an "Old Lady's Collection"]
KATHARINE JAFFARY—I
Motherwell's MS., p. 327, "from the recitation of Robert Sim, weaver, in Paisley, 16 July, 1825. It was a song of his father's, a great reciter of heroick ballads."

{225}ROB ROY—A
Skene MS., p. 44; from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3.
ROB ROY—E
Pitcairn's MSS, III, 41; "from tradition (Widow Stevenson)."

{226}LIZIE LINDSAY—C
Kinloch MSS, I, 253; from the recitation of Mrs Bouchart, of Dundee.
LIZIE LINDSAY—H
From "The Old Lady's Collection," No 39. [from George Nutchell, who got it from his step-grandmother Mrs Lamond (Nelly Low) b. 1753]

{233}ANDREW LAMMIE—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 126; "taken down by Dr Leyden from the recitation of a young lady, Miss Robson, of Edinburgh, who learned it in Teviotdale."

{236}THE LAIRD O DRUM—B
Skene MS., p. 78; taken down from recitation in the north of Scotland, 1802-3 [an "Old Lady's Collection"].
[see Herd 1776, in Appendix V, 230]
THE LAIRD O DRUM - Appendix V, 230
Motherwell's MSS, from the recitation of Thomas Risk, smith, learned by him in his youth at St Ninians's Stirlingshire.

{240}THE RANTIN LADDIE—A
a. Johnson's Musical Museum, No 462, p. 474, communicated by Robert Burns; 1797. b. Buchan's Ballads of the North of Scotland, II, 66, 1828.
THE RANTIN LADDIE—B
Skene MS., p. 55; taken down in the North of Scotland, 1802-3. [from an "Old Lady's Collection"]

{243}JAMES HARRIS (THE DÆMON LOVER)—A
Pepys Ballads, IV, 101; from a copy in Percy's papers.
JAMES HARRIS (THE DÆMON LOVER)—B
The Rambler's Garland, British Museum, 11621, c. 4 (57). 1785(?)
JAMES HARRIS (THE DÆMON LOVER)—D
Kinloch MSS, I, 297; from the recitation of T. Kinnear, Stonehaven. [?]
JAMES HARRIS (THE DÆMON LOVER)—F
Minstrelsy of the Scottish Border, fifth edition, 1812, II, 427; taken down from the recitation of Walter Grieve by William Laidlaw.

{248}THE GREY COCK, OR, SAW YOU MY FATHER?
a. 'The Grey Cock,' Herd's Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 324; Herd's MSS, I, 4; Herd's Ancient and Modern Scottish Songs, 1776, II, 208. b. 'Saw you my father?' Chappell's Popular Music, p. 731. [1772, 1787]

{266}JOHN THOMSON AND THE TURK—B
Leyden's Glossary to The Complaynt of Scotland, p. 371. ["Leyden (1801) says that he had "heard the whole song when very young."]

{267}THE HEIR OF LINNE—A
Percy MS., p. 71; Hales and Furnivall, I, 174. [1765, 1794]
And, "THE RUNKARD'S LEGACY" from Percy's Papers in Appendix


{272}THE SUFFOLK MIRACLE
Wood, E. 25, fol. 83. b. Roxburghe, II, 240; Moore's Pictorial Book of Ancient Ballad Poetry, p. 463. [also Pepys,III...Old Ballads, 1723]

{274}OUR GOODMAN—A
Herd's MSS, I, 140. [1776]
OUR GOODMAN—B
A broadside: Printed and Sold at the Printing-Office in Bow Church-Yard, London.

{275}GET UP AND BAR THE DOOR—A
Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 330. b. [Pinkerton], Select Scotish Ballads, 1783, II, 150.
GET UP AND BAR THE DOOR—C
Johnson's Museum, IV, 376, No 365, 1792. Contributed by Robert Burns.

{277}THE WIFE WRAPT IN WETHER'S SKIN—A
Jamieson's Popular Ballads, I, 319. "From the recitation of a friend of the editor's in Morayshire." [A fragment in Herd's MSS, I...belongs, if not to this ballad, at least to one in which an attempt is made to tame a shrew by castigation."]
THE WIFE WRAPT IN WETHER'S SKIN—B
Harris MS., fol. 26 b, No 25, from Miss Harris.
THE WIFE WRAPT IN WETHER'S SKIN
"From the recitation of Miss Lydia R. Nichols, Salem, MA, as heard in the early years of this century. Sung by a New England country fellow on ship-board...."

{279}THE JOLLY BEGGAR—A
"Old Lady's Collection," No 36.
THE JOLLY BEGGAR—B
a. Herd, The Ancient and Modern Scots Songs, 1769, p. 46. b. Curious Tracts, Scotland, British Museum, 1078, m. 24, No 30. ["The Gaberlunyie -Man" was, so far as can be ascertained, first printed in teh Tea-Table Miscellany (in 1724)...."    Pinkerton 1783, Johnson, 1790, ritson 1794, Herd 1776]

{283}THE CRAFTY FARMER
a. 'The Crafty Farmer,' Logan, A Pedlar's Pack, p. 126, from a chap-book of 1796; 'The Crafty Miller,' Maidment, Scotish Ballads and Songs, 1859, p. 208, from a Glasgow stall-copy; a stall-copy, printed by M. Randall, Stirling.
'The Yorkshire Farmer,' Kidson, Traditional Tunes, p.140, from The Manchester Songster, 1792.

{285}THE GEORGE ALOE AND THE SWEEPSTAKE
a. Percy Papers, "from an ancient black-letter copy in Ballard's collection."
b. Rawlinson, 566, fol. 183, 40.
Roxburghe, III, 204, in Ebsworth, Roxburghe Ballads, VI, 408.

{286}THE SWEET TRINITY (THE GOLDEN VANITY)—A
Pepys Ballads, IV, 196, No 189.
THE SWEET TRINITY (THE GOLDEN VANITY)—B
a. Logan's Pedlar's Pack, p. 42, as sung about 1840 by Mr P. S. Fraser, of Edinburgh, and obtained by him orally. b. As sung by Mr George Du Maurier to Mr J. R. Lowell, 1884. c. Motherwell's MS., p. 420; from Mr John Cleland, marble-cutter, Glasgow, who had it of Mr Forrester, Stirling. d. Communicated by Mrs Moncrieff, as taught to a relative of hers by an old Scottish lady about 1830. e. Findlay MSS, I, 161, "from Strang, Divinity Student, 1868." f. Sharpe's Ballad Book, 1880, p. 160, note by Sir Walter Scott.
THE SWEET TRINITY (THE GOLDEN VANITY)—C
a. Stall-copy, Pitts, Seven Dials, Logan's Pedlar's Pack, p. 45. b. Long's Dictionary of the Isle of Wight Dialect, p. 145. c. Christie, Traditional Ballad Airs, I, 238, compounded from the recitation of an old woman of Buckie, Banffshire, and a chap-book copy. d. Baring-Gould and Sheppard, Songs of the West, No 64, Part III, p. 24, Part IV, p. xxxi, taken down from James Olver, Launceston (an improved copy). e. Buchan's MSS, II, 390, 414. f. Motherwell's MS., p. 392, and Note-Book, p. 50, from the recitation of Agnes Lyle, 24th August, 1825. g. Macmath MS., p. 80, from the recitation of Miss Agnes Macmath, 1893; learned at Airds of Kells, Kirkcudbrightshire.

{287}CAPTAIN WARD AND THE RAINBOW
Bagford Ballads, I, 65. [Pepys]

{289}THE MERMAID—A
The Glasgow Lasses Garland, the second piece, British Museum, 11621. c. 3 (68). "Newcastle, 1765?"

{293}JOHN OF HAZELGREEN—A
Elizabeth Cochrane's MS., p. 126. ["having been transcribed by C.K. Sharpe for Sir W. Scott "from a 4to MS., in a female hand, written probably about one hundred years ago,...."]
JOHN OF HAZELGREEN—B
Kinloch's MSS, VII, 135; from the recitation of Jenny Watson, Lanark, 24 April, 1826.

{299}TROOPER AND MAID—B
Motherwell's MS., p. 27; from the recitation of Widow Nicol.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 27 Mar 12 - 08:16 PM

Obviously there is a lot of material here. And obviously some of the decisions that I have made are quite subjective. But please feel free to point out the errors of my ways in all of this. I make no claims at expertise, and would welcome corrections and suggestions. I am going to let this rest a bit before I try to draw any conclusions from it.

My goal in bringing these two lists - Child's 18th century documentation and Coffin's list of ballads found in America - is to first of all see how many of "Coffin's ballads" are document by Child for the 18th century. The results of this comparison may suggest some starting places for deciding which ballads are the best candidates for the 18th century in America.

This would be a suggestion only. I realize that there are probably no direct lines from 18th century England & Scotland to America at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century. But the fact that "Coffin's ballads" were found in the oral tradition in this later period suggests that they survived in some kind of oral setting from the 18th century.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: John Minear
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 10:41 AM

On my count, Coffin (and deV Renwick) + (Roud thru '86) have provided documentation for the "discovery" of 118 "Child Ballads" in America. These are the ones for which there is more or less clear evidence that they were being sung from and in the "oral tradition." Out of these 118 examples, there were only ten that I could not find any documentation for in the 18th century in England or Scotland from Child's information. Here are those ten:

{3} The False Knight on the Road

{27} The Whummil Bore

{43} The Broomfield Hill

{78} The Unquiet Grave

{85} Lady Alice

{218]} The False Lover Won Back

{228} Glasgow Peggie

{278} The Farmer's Curst Wife

{281} The Keach I the Creel

{295} The Brown Girl

It could well be that I missed finding the information on any of these. Or it could be that Child missed finding information on them for the 18th century. Or it might be that the "collectors" back then missed finding these ballads in the 18th century. Or it also might be that they were not in the oral tradition at that point. But obviously they could have been. However, for now, I am focusing on documented examples.

I guess I was surprised that "The Farmer's Curst Wife" (#278) didn't show up, since it is so popular over here, and seems to be well developed. The "False Knight", "Broomfield Hill", "Unquiet Grave", and "Brown Girl" also seem to be fairly popular in America. But all of these could have come later.

I would also say that I was surprised by the high percentage - 108 out of 118 - of examples that have been found here that can be documented to the 18th century in England/Scotland. That is more than I would have expected, but then I really was in the dark about what was happening with these ballads in 18th century England/Scotland.

Once again, I would invite everybody to check my information and to let me know if you can find documentation for any of the ten ballads listed above from 18th century England/Scotland (or for America!). And I am certainly open to corrections on my reading of Coffin's list as well.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 03:23 PM

295 The Brown Girl needs to be split into the 2 types 295A only exists in garlands and on slips and I've only ever seen 3 versions. 295B is a concoction made up by Baring Gould using 295A which Baring Gould had found in the BL, and The Sailor from Dover/Sally and her true love Billy, which did appear in the late 18th century but was widely printed in the nineteenth. All of the oral versions are simply derived from this second broadside. As Child says 295A itself is a concoction of bits and pieces from other ballads. A genuine Child Ballad? You'll have to make up your own mind about that. None of these are likely to be any older than about 1775. To help you, you might like to read my paper in 'Folk Song, tradition, Revival and Re-creation edited by Russell and Atkinson.

More on the others when I can check them, but I'm sure some of them have stall copy versions.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:10 PM

Whummil Bore.
Not only am I very suspicious of Reed Smith's contributions, I'm even sceptical of Motherwell on this one.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:12 PM

43
The Merry Broomfield or the West Country wager is well documented, fairly common on early broadsides.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:21 PM

78,
I have on several broadsides mostly early 19thc under titles such as
Cold Blows the Wind
The Weeping Lover (Bodl website)
The Mournful Lovers.
Of the last title there are 2 different copies in the Madden Collection, both maddeningly without imprint, but with seraph s which could be late 18thc


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Subject: RE: Origins: Child Ballads in 18th c. America?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Mar 12 - 04:22 PM

100
Oops 100's not there


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