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BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012

Greg B 17 Jan 12 - 03:55 PM
Charley Noble 17 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM
Greg B 17 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM
mayomick 17 Jan 12 - 05:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Jan 12 - 06:16 PM
Leadfingers 17 Jan 12 - 06:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Jan 12 - 06:30 PM
Little Hawk 17 Jan 12 - 06:37 PM
Greg B 17 Jan 12 - 06:39 PM
Ebbie 17 Jan 12 - 07:33 PM
Charley Noble 17 Jan 12 - 07:43 PM
kendall 17 Jan 12 - 07:50 PM
gnu 17 Jan 12 - 09:40 PM
Jeri 17 Jan 12 - 09:55 PM
Rapparee 17 Jan 12 - 10:46 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Jan 12 - 03:20 AM
ChrisJBrady 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 AM
ChrisJBrady 18 Jan 12 - 05:56 AM
GUEST,Patsy 18 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM
DMcG 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Eliza 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM
Charley Noble 18 Jan 12 - 08:13 AM
Silas 18 Jan 12 - 08:16 AM
kendall 18 Jan 12 - 12:34 PM
GUEST,Eliza 18 Jan 12 - 01:31 PM
Pete Jennings 18 Jan 12 - 01:51 PM
Bonzo3legs 18 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM
GUEST,Eliza 18 Jan 12 - 02:08 PM
gnu 18 Jan 12 - 02:27 PM
kendall 18 Jan 12 - 02:35 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Jan 12 - 02:44 PM
bobad 18 Jan 12 - 03:07 PM
GUEST,Eliza 18 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM
Rapparee 18 Jan 12 - 03:32 PM
Charley Noble 18 Jan 12 - 03:41 PM
Bill D 18 Jan 12 - 03:53 PM
mayomick 18 Jan 12 - 04:48 PM
Bill D 18 Jan 12 - 05:06 PM
mayomick 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 PM
Bill D 18 Jan 12 - 06:53 PM
GUEST 18 Jan 12 - 07:26 PM
Rapparee 18 Jan 12 - 10:26 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Jan 12 - 04:10 AM
mayomick 19 Jan 12 - 05:07 AM
Charley Noble 19 Jan 12 - 08:05 AM
GUEST,Patsy 19 Jan 12 - 08:11 AM
Charley Noble 19 Jan 12 - 08:25 AM
Ed T 19 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM
kendall 19 Jan 12 - 10:39 AM
Charley Noble 19 Jan 12 - 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 03:55 PM

Actually much of the conjecture coincides rather well with the latest on NPR. Sadly, there appear to be quite a few more gone missing than originally hoped for. Plane crashes and shipwrecks are, alas, pretty predictable.

They played the tape of the Coast Guard ordering the captain back to his vessel, and him alternately claiming that he was aboard and not aboard.

To all appearances the skipper is a bit of a merchant banker.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 04:36 PM

Greg-

I agree that translated interview, as broadcast by NPR, with the Italian Coast Guard officer and the captain on shore is particularly damning. The Coast Guard officer is heard repeatedly ordering the captain back to the ship to better assess how the evacuation is going. The captain is reluctant to go back. Eventually the captain says he will go back but there is no evidence that he or his second officer ever did that.

There are other reports that the captain called the head waiter up to the bridge so he could wave to his relatives as they passed close to the island. No doubt his relatives were astonished by what they witnessed.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 04:58 PM

We used to say that the two most commonly-uttered last words before a fatal low-altitude light aircraft accident are "Watch this!" Apparently hot-dogging close to terra-firma is also a bad idea in a cruise ship.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 05:52 PM

The inquiry shouldn't be conducted by the media. The tapes from the coast guard should be properly examined , experts called about the sea charts witnesses on board called to testify , the owners of the ship questioned about safety procedures etc .At least Admiral Byng got a court martial before they shot him .

The cruiser has been described as a huge floating pleasure palace. A lot of its crew seem to have been more like waiters, croupiers and entertainers than properly trained sailors .Was that the captain's fault? One passenger interviewed on CNN about the ship's safety drill said that it turned out to be a sales pitch for shore excursions. A woman who was at a life boat drill said that the crew did try their best to show people how to put on life vests but the passengers were only interested in trying to get drinks and take photos.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:16 PM

Enuf yakity-yak ! Let's get on with the lynching. Who will provide the rope and the tree?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:18 PM

Having worked as an entertainer on ferries - Only single round trip cross chanel and Weeked gigs , NOT long cruises , we were never fully briefed as to what we should do in an emergency , though on the weekenders we were treated as 'crew' .
Reports of the most recent bodies found being in muster areas leaves me wondering what sort of 'safety drill' practises had ANYONE on the boat done .


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:30 PM

Entertainers, gigolos, boutique keepers. Many of these on the big boats. My dentist of a few years ago played piano on them, and another friend as a gigolo by the cruise lines, to dance and chat with single ladies (mostly old hags).


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:37 PM

The average "old hag" was once a lovely young thing. Keep that in mind and learn some humility. Time catches up with all of us, unless we dodge it by dying young.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 06:39 PM

Only a very small percentage of the crew on those things are "mariners," properly speaking. Aside from not having the skills, they also really don't have the mind-set. If you think that land based immigrant workers are exploited, take a look at the service staff on cruise ships. The only difference is that on the ships it's legal, indeed, protected by international law. But if you think that one of these wage-slaves has any interest at all in any sort of heroics to save the "posh folk" from the briny deep, think again. They're just trying to feed their families in some 3rd-world country, and if they don't make it home, that family may well starve.

All in all, modern cruise ships represent a lot of eggs in one basket, and it's getting worse.

On my one cruise, aboard what was at the time one of the largest passenger ships, the Sun Princess, with 1990 passengers and 900 crew, I felt that way. The new ships double those numbers!

And it doesn't take a wreck to have a lot of problems to deal with all at once. The things are notorious communicable disease incubators, with passengers and crew crowding together after getting off airliners from the world over and then exposing one another to novel bacteria and viruses.

A couple days into my own cruise, I contracted the worst gastro-intestinal bug I've ever had. It was then that I also learned that ship's medics are notoriously cagey about discussing how many other folks are falling ill while on board. Fortunately, I recovered quickly and was paddling a sea kayak the next day.

On top of that, at least to my eye, the latest ships with their stacks of decks, seem un-seaworthy and butt-ugly to boot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:33 PM

Thanks, Little Hawk, for taking up the cudgel so quickly. Describing as 'old hags' the "single ladies" on board most cruiseships by a self-confessed elderly man is an exercise of uncalled-for snarkiness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:43 PM

I'm not even sure the captain in this case deserves credit for running his crippled ship into shallow water after it had collided with the ledge. Maybe he just panicked. The ship might have been able to limp into the nearby harbor. However, I'm willing to wait for the results of the investigation on that question.

I am quite willing at this point to condemn him and his second officer for abandoning the ship while there were still hundreds of passengers and crew left aboard desperately trying to save their lives. Anyone here still want to stand up for the captain in question?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 07:50 PM

I'm not going to play "Arm chair expert", but I will say that a ship has a couple of mortal enemies; storms and land.
Number one rule is keep plenty of water under your keel.And, as Lindseys Law says, "When your draft exceeds the depth of the water, you are most assuredly aground."

Last, I spent most of my adult life at sea and some in the position of Captain. For a Captain to abandon ship with so many people still aboard is just not done. That shame will follow him all his life. And, it doesn't matter if he was totally innocent of causing the wreck. The Captain is responsible for everything that happens aboard.

As Captain Ahab said, "There is only one God in heaven, and only one God aboard the Pequod."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 09:40 PM

Well, the Cap'n is the last one off a ship. That's the rule. Does it apply in this case? Time will tell. Should it apply in this case? Time will tell.

All else is conjecture at this point.

But, yes... the Cappy should be the last off... by rule, no? Do you believe in that rule? Should it be an absolute rule no matter what?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 09:55 PM

I don't think he's being criticized for grounding the ship. I think it's because he left. I heard the recordings, with translation, earlier today. It pretty much went the way Charley said above. The captain also said it was getting dark and he wanted to go home. That was why he didn't want to go back to the ship and check for passengers.

I don't know exactly how much trouble he's in, but I bet he doesn't captain any more ships.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jan 12 - 10:46 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if they suspended his captaining license for at least 30 days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:20 AM

He was sitting in a lifeboat while hundreds were still waiting.
He said it was dark and the ship was listing.
Bless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 AM

This wasn't the first time that the ship had sailed close to the island. It did so last August WITH the permission and knowledge of the owners. So its not all black and white and sqeaky clean at the US end of things. I quote:

From: MARHST-L@LISTS.QUEENSU.CA
Cruise captain given house arrest

Italian judges have put under house arrest the captain of a cruise ship that crashed into rocks on Friday.

Prosecutors say Francesco Schettino caused the crash and also fled the Costa Concordia while passengers were still stranded.

A recording of a call between Capt Schettino and a port official after the crash appears to support this, though Capt Schettino denies the claims.

Rescuers have recovered 11 bodies and are searching for 24 missing people.

The local authority says 20 passengers are still missing. They include people from Germany, Italy, France and the US.

Four crew members - one each from Italy, Hungary, India and Peru - are also missing following the incident, just off the coast of the island of Giglio Porto.

Meanwhile, new satellite information shown to the BBC's Newsnight programme shows that the vessel had a "near miss" even closer to the island last August, in a diversion that was apparently approved by the ship's owners, Costa Cruises.

'It's too dark'

A recording of a call between Capt Schettino and a port official shortly after the crash appears to support the prosecutors' accusation that the captain left the vessel while passengers were still on board.
In the recording, released by the Corriere della Sera newspaper, Livorno Port Authority chief Gregorio de Falco can be heard repeatedly telling the captain to get back on board the ship to help the stranded passengers.

"Schettino, maybe you saved yourself from the sea, but I'll make you have trouble for sure. Go aboard," says Mr De Falco.

The captain appears to refuse, replying first that there are rescuers already on board, and then that it is dark and difficult to see.

Mr De Falco replies: "Do you want to go home, Schettino? It's dark, so you want to go home?"

Coastguards believe he never went back to the ship. He was arrested shortly afterwards and has been held in jail since.

Bodies discovered

But during a court hearing on Tuesday, the captain said he could not get on board the vessel because it was lying on its side.

He argued that after hitting rocks he had executed a difficult manoeuvre that had saved many people's lives.

His lawyer Bruno Leporatti later announced that the judge had decided to release the captain from jail and place him under house arrest.
Prosecutor Francesco Verusio, who had argued that Capt Schettino was a flight risk, said he did not understand the ruling.

"I'm keen to read the reasoning," he said.

Meanwhile, rescuers found six more bodies in the wreck of the ship on Tuesday, bringing the confirmed death toll to 11.

"The five victims are a woman and four men, who could be passengers, but we are not sure," said coastguard spokesman Filippo Marini.
He added that the dead people were between 50 and 60 years old, and were wearing life-jackets.

The bodies were found near one of the assembly points where people were told to gather in an emergency.

The authorities are also battling to avoid an environmental disaster, amid fears that the cruise ship's fuel tanks could break apart and shed thousands of tonnes of diesel into the sea.

Specialist salvage teams have been drafted in, and are due to start pumping the fuel out in the coming days.

The BBC's Peter Biles: "Footage shows the passengers dwarfed by the vastness of the ship"

The ship, carrying 4,200 passengers and crew, had its hull ripped open when it hit rocks late on Friday, just hours after leaving the port of Civitavecchia for a week-long Mediterranean cruise.

Some people were forced to swim for shore as the angle of the ship made launching lifeboats impossible.

Infrared footage taken from a helicopter showed lines of people climbing ropes down the exposed hull of the vessel to reach rescue boats on the water.

'Near miss'

Meanwhile, satellite tracking information given to the BBC by the shipping journal, Lloyd's List Intelligence, shows that the Costa Concordia sailed closer to Giglio island on a cruise last August than it did on its disastrous voyage on Friday.

Lloyd's List told the BBC that the vessel passed within 230m of the island on 14 August 2011 to mark La Notte di San Lorenzo - the night of the shooting stars festival on the island.

The route deviation on that occasion had been authorised by Costa Cruises - the company which owns the vessel.

Lloyd's List has published data suggesting a near miss occurred in a very similar location in August

The company said on Monday that the ship was never closer than 500m to the coast when it passed on 14 August.

Lloyd's List describes that occasion as a "near miss" and says the ship's route would have been less than 200m away from the point of collision on Friday's voyage.

Costa Cruises said on Monday that the route deviation last Friday had been "unauthorised, unapproved and unknown to Costa".

But Richard Meade, the Editor of Lloyd's List, said: "The company's account of what happened, of the rogue master [Capt Schettino] taking a bad decision, isn't quite as black and white as they presented originally."

"This ship took a very similar route only a few months previously and the master would have known that."

Costa Cruises says it is looking into the claims, but stands by the statement it gave on Monday.

Nautical charts

Meanwhile, Lloyd's List says the issue of which nautical charts the captain of the vessel was using looks likely to be critical to his defence if he does face a criminal prosecution.

The UK Hydrographic Office (UKHO) has issued a statement declining to comment on whether its charts were being used. No rocks are shown on the UKHO's chart at the position where the Costa Concordia sank.

The UKHO points out that its charts are only at the 1:300,000 scale and that Italian charts are available on a much larger scale.

"It should be noted that this small scale chart is considered to be unsuitable for close inshore navigation," the UKHO told Lloyds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16604154

Unquote:


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:56 AM

Apparently a class action by 70 or more passengers is pending.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 06:31 AM

Cruises had never really appealed to me. Unfortunately in the 60s and 70s growing up I had this notion that it was all going to be a bit like a Carry-on movie, it was the last thing I would have dreamed of doing for a vacation and in my mind then (wrongly) just for much older people who's only interests centered around bingo, sequence dancing and the cabaret in the evening. But mostly I had the view (wrongly) that people who went on cruises were possibly not adventureous enough to travel through or stay anywhere long enough to get to know the culture of a particular country. Now that I am older I can see the benefits of a cruise ship as a relaxing base with the option of a range of activities ashore for some people it can be ideal but what prevents me is the mentioned notion above about older single women considered as hags.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: DMcG
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

I cruise quite often (in double figures). I've always said it doesn't suit everyone, but it combines my wife's enjoyment of relaxation with my low boredom threshold if I stay in one place too long and the better providers run seminars, which suits me. For example, I did a short astronomy course on my last trip. On another I took part in a performance of Pirates of Penzance that took several hours of rehearsal a day; very enjoyable, thank you!

There is really quite a wide range of style depending on the provider - some I find horribly glitzy, others are much more visually and environmentally pleasant. I've sailed with perhaps six companies, but not Costa. All have been good with the safety musters, but the same can't be said for the passengers. Too many don't pay attention: I admit to being rather inattentive on planes myself, as I suspect many people are. Passengers on cruise ships seem more attentive to these talks than airline passengers, but not by very much.

As for the comments on age: yes, there are far more older passengers as a proportion than the general population, but there are probably rather more under 30s than many might expect, even on child-free ships.

Will this accident will put us off? No.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:22 AM

Patsy, I get terribly seasick, and a cruise would be the last thing I'd consider! But loads of my old friends adore them and, as you say, find having a base on board the ship and evening entertainment to be just what they want. I applaud Little Hawk's censure of the term 'old hags'. But I'm robust enough never to mind what ageist twits think of women of my age. Solo or as a couple, people are there on holiday and are free to enjoy their chosen trip without abuse like that!
Like tragic aircrashes, a disaster like this might put folk off a cruise, but I'm sure there are hundreds of successful voyages by dozens of different companies, there will always be customers to enjoy them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:13 AM

CJB-

Thanks for posting those reports above.

I can't imagine any luxury cruise ship captain using charts at 1:300,000 scale for navigating several hundred meters from shore.

The captain evidently had an hour after the initial collision to assess the situation before deciding to ground his ship in shallow waters. Some have questioned whether he should have ordered the lifeboats deployed earlier than he did. I'll be interested in what the investigation concludes about that.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Silas
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 08:16 AM

Don't know why they bother with an investigation Charley, might as well just lock him up and throw the key away. After all, who needs facts when you have mudcatter speculation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 12:34 PM

I don't comment on whether it is right or wrong, I simply said it is traditional for the Captain to be the last to leave a sinking ship.

As far as him losing his license, what happened to the Captain of the ESSO Valdez? Last I knew he was teaching navigation!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:31 PM

Just heard on the BBC Evening News that the Captain is now saying he slipped and fell into a lifeboat!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 01:51 PM

He certainly sounds like a slippery character! And lucky, eh?!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:04 PM

He certainly needs a haircut!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:08 PM

The Italians appear to want his throat cut.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:27 PM

I just saw a pic of him. He looks able-bodied and not old in THAT pic. If that IS the case, I should think questioning why he left when he did is valid. However, self-preservation is hard to overcome, even for the strongest of us. I certainly do not know what I would do faced with possible death by drowning. I'd like to think I would do all I could do for those in my charge but I wasn't there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:35 PM

Come on folks, let's wait until he is found guilty, then hang him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 02:44 PM

His second in command was in the same lifeboat.
They must have both slipped on the same banana skin.
These things happen all the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: bobad
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:07 PM

From CBC radio program "As It Happens"

The captain going down with the ship has become a metaphor for honour, integrity and responsibility.

Francesco Schettino is the captain of the Costa Concordia, which ran aground off the west coast of Italy on Friday. He did not go down with his ship. He was safely aboard a lifeboat while hundreds of his passengers and teams of rescue workers remained on the dangerously listing vessel. Here's his radio conversation with a Coast Guard officer admonishing Schettino to return to his ship. This audio was first posted on the website of the Italian daily, Corriere della Sera.

Here is that recording, with translation provided by the BBC


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:12 PM

Let's be fair. It may have been a bit icy on deck. He may have stood in some custard. He may have been wearing very slippery shoes. Soemone may have pushed him and his second-in-command onto some seaweed. The lifeboat was fortunately just underneath. We mustn't condemn the man just yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:32 PM

"Yer honor, we find the defendant not guilty."
"Mr. Foreman, you and the jury will have to go back and reconsider, because we hanged him an hour ago."


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:41 PM

The captain's own words, as translated on the PBC/BBC links, will convict him.

That may be his only conviction...

He should have had more.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:53 PM

one report

I read one report that the captain sailed close as a favor to the 'chief waiter' (as had been done before)... and the last line of the above link says:

"Half an hour before disaster struck, the waiter's sister posted an entry on her Facebook page saying she had been told the ship was "going to pass really close", and sending "a big hello to my brother".

One more report including this:"The father of the ship's head waiter told Reuters that his son had telephoned him before the accident to say the crew would salute him by blowing the ship's whistle as they passed by the island of Giglio, where both the waiter, Antonello Tievoli, and his 82-year-old father Giuseppe live.

"The ship obviously came too close," the elder Tievoli said, according to Reuters.

I don't know if Antonello asked the captain to come near, but the responsibility is always the captain's."

Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper quoted witnesses as saying that shortly before the accident, the captain called the head waiter to the bridge saying, "Antonello, come see, we are very close to your Giglio."

Yes...those are technically 'hearsay', but there does seems to be a pattern emerging.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 04:48 PM

According to one report I read, the captain had spent much of the night drinking in the bar with a beautiful woman on his arm.
Does anybody know if the captain of a ship is supposed to be capable and on duty at all times ? If this particular captain had been drinking when the ship hit the rocks , would he be able to claim in his defence that he was off duty at the time ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:06 PM

In Italy, all that might win him some favor in the court of public opinion, but I doubt it would in court....


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 05:53 PM

It was a hypothetical question Bill . I was wondering if there is any law that says the captain of a ship isn't allowed to get drunk when off duty. Does he have to be sober and capable of responding to a crisis at all times ? If he was off duty and sloshed at the time of the accident that would be a mitigating factor for him , I would have thought.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 06:53 PM

I would 'think' a captain would be expected to remain legally sober while the ship is on the seas. There are others who assume command while the captain sleeps...etc... but a captain should be available at all times in cases of emergency.
Now I have no direct knowlege of that rule, and I have no doubt that, whether or not such a rule exists, captains of various vessels DO sometimes get drunk. There is testimony that the captain of the Exxon Valdez was 'impaired' when it ran aground in Alaska.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 07:26 PM

Well, the good news for old Joe Hazlewood is that he is no longer the shittiest skipper in memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 10:26 PM

Article 3

Liability of the carrier

1. The carrier shall be liable for the damage suffered as a result of the death of or personal injury to a passenger and the loss of or damage to luggage if the incident which caused the damage so suffered occurred in the course of the carriage and was due to the fault or neglect of the carrier or of his servants or agents acting within the scope of their employment.

2. The burden of proving that the incident which caused the loss or damage occurred in the course of the carriage, and the extent of the loss or damage, shall lie with the claimant.

3. Fault or neglect of the carrier or of his servants or agents acting within the scope of their employment shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, if the death of or personal injury to the passenger or the loss of or damage to cabin luggage arose from or in connexion with the shipwreck, collision, stranding, explosion or fire, or defect in the ship. In respect of loss of or damage to other luggage, such fault or neglect shall be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, irrespective of the nature of the incident which caused the loss or damage. In all other cases the burden of proving fault or neglect shall lie with the claimant.



       -- Athens Convention relating to the Carriage of Passengers and their Luggage by Sea, 1974


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 04:10 AM

But there is limitation of liability - see here including a link to conversion rates: -

http://www.imo.org/About/Conventions/ListOfConventions/Pages/Athens-Convention-relating-to-the-Carriage-of-Passengers-and-their-Luggage-by-Sea-(PAL).aspx


http://tinyurl.com/7p6s8km


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 05:07 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQsOgyV6LI&feature=related


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:05 AM

mayomick-

That link was certainly an eyeful.

The captain of the Costa Concordian definitely needed a lawyer to remind him to keep his mouth shut. With each new statement he is just slip-slip-sliding deeper into the abyss.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:11 AM

Eliza seasickness is one of the other reasons that I would hesitate to book a cruise. The more that is emerging about the Captain I question his sanity to sail a ship in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 08:25 AM

Here's a link to the best set of photos of the ship I've found, during and after it was run ashore: click here for PIXS

You may have to scroll way down to find the right story. Sorry, maybe someone else can find a more direct link.

What a nightmare!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Ed T
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 09:36 AM

If you walk in your sleep, cruises may not a wise option:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 10:39 AM

mayomick, if the Captain is aboard, he is responsible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Costa Concordia Sinking-2012
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Jan 12 - 12:00 PM

Kendall-

Maybe he was thinking that if he "jumped ship" he'd no longer be responsible.

Charley Noble


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