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BS: President Kennedy assassinated 22 Nov 1963

DigiTrad:
BEST YEARS OF HER LIFE
DEATH OF JOHN KENNEDY
I SAW MY COUNTRY'S FLAG GO DOWN
I'M CALLED LITTLE CAROLINE
LEE HARVEY WAS A FRIEND OF MINE
LORD OF THE LAND
THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT AND THAT WAS THE MAN
THAT WAS THE PRESIDENT, THAT WAS THE MAN 2
THE BALLAD OF J. F. K.
THE BOY SALUTES


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kendall 23 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM
Bobert 23 Nov 11 - 01:09 PM
GUEST,BigDaddy 23 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM
BTNG 23 Nov 11 - 01:26 PM
Jeri 23 Nov 11 - 01:28 PM
gnu 23 Nov 11 - 01:31 PM
BTNG 23 Nov 11 - 02:16 PM
VirginiaTam 23 Nov 11 - 03:01 PM
Beer 23 Nov 11 - 03:23 PM
gnu 23 Nov 11 - 03:28 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 03:33 PM
Little Hawk 23 Nov 11 - 05:43 PM
Jeri 23 Nov 11 - 06:05 PM
Bobert 23 Nov 11 - 06:18 PM
gnomad 23 Nov 11 - 06:22 PM
Micca 23 Nov 11 - 06:38 PM
kendall 23 Nov 11 - 07:16 PM
Jack Campin 23 Nov 11 - 07:17 PM
gnu 23 Nov 11 - 07:20 PM
Janie 23 Nov 11 - 07:21 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 07:43 PM
Little Hawk 23 Nov 11 - 08:27 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 08:36 PM
gnu 23 Nov 11 - 08:39 PM
Little Hawk 23 Nov 11 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 09:04 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 09:10 PM
Little Hawk 23 Nov 11 - 09:10 PM
Janie 23 Nov 11 - 10:26 PM
Little Hawk 23 Nov 11 - 10:49 PM
GUEST,999 23 Nov 11 - 10:57 PM
EBarnacle 23 Nov 11 - 11:24 PM
Janie 23 Nov 11 - 11:40 PM
Janie 23 Nov 11 - 11:43 PM
Janie 23 Nov 11 - 11:55 PM
Nancy King 24 Nov 11 - 12:47 AM
Little Hawk 24 Nov 11 - 12:54 AM
Janie 24 Nov 11 - 01:26 AM
GUEST,Patsy 24 Nov 11 - 02:55 AM
GUEST,kendall 24 Nov 11 - 07:28 AM
Will Fly 24 Nov 11 - 08:25 AM
Stringsinger 24 Nov 11 - 06:11 PM
Greg F. 24 Nov 11 - 06:15 PM
Stringsinger 24 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM
Ebbie 24 Nov 11 - 06:37 PM
BTNG 24 Nov 11 - 07:32 PM
kendall 24 Nov 11 - 07:51 PM
gnu 24 Nov 11 - 08:11 PM
Beer 24 Nov 11 - 09:53 PM
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Subject: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM

On this date in history, President Kennedy was killed in Dallas Texas.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:09 PM

And the rich people popped the corks in the safety of their mansions...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:21 PM

And every year on this date (and other times as well), I reflect on what might have been. This was a blow that staggered our country, and when RFK was murdered in 1968 we were knocked flat. I fear we may never fully recover. Our best hope right now is President Obama, IMHO, and when I see how he is reviled by the same sort that hated the Kennedys, it scares the hell out of me.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: BTNG
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:26 PM

Ya know, I still don't remember where I was, when it happened, people keep asking if I do remember.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:28 PM

I'm sure this was meant for yesterday, Nov 22nd.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 01:31 PM

He got it mixed up with Mum's Bday... both important dates in history. >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: BTNG
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 02:16 PM

totally irrelevant, but today is the 48th anniversary of the first episode showing of the British TV series Doctor Who. (23 November 1963)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 03:01 PM

I don't remember where I was when he was assassinated, but I remember the television coverage of a state funeral when I was about 5 years old.   What I remember most was US flag draped over coffin and my mamma weeping inconsolably which upset me more than anything ever had or did in my early childhood. My Daddy was serving in Korea at the time and I remember wishing he was home.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Beer
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 03:23 PM

Home room teacher had been called away to the office. when he returned he was well in tears. Then he made the announcement. This was in Nova Scotia. He wasn't our President but we felt as if he was.
Adrien


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 03:28 PM

VT... the flag... and the horses... and people crying.

They cried for good reason, as has been alluded to in earlier posts. Fortunately, the good people of the USA have moved steadily onward. I hope it continues, however toooo slowly it may seem at times.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 03:33 PM

I was doing a school exam but had finished before my classmates and Miss van Reet came over and whispered that President Kennedy had been shot. She had some tears in her eyes and she brought a kleenex for me, too. When the test was over about 15 minutes later she told the class and EVERYbody was in tears.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 05:43 PM

I was at school when the news got announced, and I think I was in the cafeteria at the time. The thing that most shocked me about it was that the majority of the students around me didn't seem to care all that much. Some of the teachers and staff were certainly upset about it. The thing is, I was in rural upstate New York at the time, an intensely conservative area, and most people around there hated John Kennedy. I think many of them were secretly pleased that he was dead, but they weren't going to say it out loud.

The ensuing days of mourning were traumatic for the whole nation, in fact the whole world, and will never be forgotten by those who lived through them...but the USA was sharply divided. Many loved John Kennedy. Many hated him and wished him dead. I will not forget the coldness of many of the Republicans in that town on that day and in the ensuing days. It was the beginning of a very disturbing trend in American politics, a secret war in my opinion, and it's still happening today.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 06:05 PM

They let us out early, but I don't think they told us why. I stopped at the corner store, and I think somebody told me there. I remember thinking about it all the way home, and my house was about a half mile away. I knew it was something big that happened, but it didn't sink in until later. I remember when I went to bed, I had what must have been a half hour emotional talk with God about being good to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 06:18 PM

I remember that day well...Mr. Cormiae's 5th period US Government class... He was a Kennedy kind of guy... Someone came to the door, asked him to step into the hall, he came back and announced it to the class...

The 1960 campaign was my first... I was like 13 years old and my mom was a campaign worker...

I also agree with BigDaddy... The assassinations in the 60's killed off the progressive movement and it has not seen daylight since...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: gnomad
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 06:22 PM

I was a bit young (9, and in the UK) to have that 'where were you when it happened?' memory, but the day does still stand out.

An adult neighbour was visibly upset and asked what I thought about it, but I knew nothing, never mind having an opinion. I don't think my Mum even knew, as she went around to the neighbour when I asked, presumably to find out more. Our normal news source would have been the morning paper next day, there being no TV and almost no radio in our house.

In some ways it was to me the beginning of learning that life isn't all roses, I have the impression that I am not alone in that.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Micca
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 06:38 PM

I was a Ordinary Seaman on a ship inbound on The Bristol Channel, I had just taken the wheel for my trick at 9.55 at the start of the 10 to 3 watch when it was announced on the 10 oclock news on the BBC. The mate sent me to tell the skipper and we woke and told the rest of the crew, all the deckhands stayed up at least until the next watch change drinking tea and wandering around aimlessly in shock.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: kendall
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:16 PM

Jeri is right, one of the problems with being retired is that one day is pretty much like another.

I was putting up storm windows with my Father in law when we got the news.

I remember just as clearly when President Roosevelt died, my first thought was, There goes our democracy. He, being a democrat and all.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:17 PM

If it wasn't for the fact the alternative was so much worse, we'd all be celebrating the well-deserved execution of an overprivileged playboy at the head of an imperialist mass murder machine who risked the survival of civilization to maintain American hegemony and started a war that left millions dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:20 PM

It is slightly odd to hear some of the stories... that the death of JFK affected so many people, so far away, so deeply. I understand why but I never knew of the far reaching effects on people "so far away" - on a ship in England late at night? Just seems odd to me. But, I understand.

I was six years old and I only understood the shock and the grief. It wasn't until years later I understood what his death really meant to US society as a whole. Until today, I didn't know it meant somewhat the same to those "so far away".


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Janie
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:21 PM

I was in 7th grade Art class, the last period of the day. The Principal came over the PA to announce the president had been shot and there were unofficial reports that he was dead. As I recall, a little while later they switched the PA to broadcast the news reports and we listened to the official announcement that President Kennedy was dead.

It was 2 days before my 12th birthday. Eisenhower and Kennedy were the only two Presidents in my memory. There was God, there was Jesus, and right below them there was the President of the United States.

The world turned upside down that day. Not because it was Kennedy, but because it was the President. I'm not sure it has stopped spinning for me since.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:35 PM

"If it wasn't for the fact the alternative was so much worse, we'd all be celebrating the well-deserved execution of an overprivileged playboy at the head of an imperialist mass murder machine who risked the survival of civilization to maintain American hegemony and started a war that left millions dead."

Mr Campin, thank you.

It wasn't the person that got my heart all those years ago in high school, it was the mystique. I happen to agree with you--as I so often do. I would however correct a point of history: the CIA had assured the American president that Russia did not have the 'moxie' to back up the threat.

B


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 07:43 PM

Another point of history: he certainly enlarged the war, but he didn't start it. (I prob'ly know more about that war than anyone you ever met, no offense.)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:27 PM

Previous USA administrations worked hand in glove with the French to maintain French colonial rule in Vietnam, but that effort met defeat. The country was partitioned, and the next move the USA made was to make sure that it would not be re-united by abrogating scheduled re-unification and national elections, and installing a corrupt Catholic-Vietnamese puppet government in the southern half, and putting American military advisors in to help that government quash resistance from the Buddhist majority. That happened under the Eisenhower government.

So Kennedy did not start that war. He did continue it, and Johnson turned it into a giant American war, and Nixon followed along the same path.

It so happens, Jack, that you are quite right about Kennedy being "an overprivileged playboy at the head of an imperialist mass murder machine who risked the survival of civilization to maintain American hegemony".

Indeed.

However, ANYONE who had become president would have gone on to command that same imperialist mass murder machine. It's the overall system itself that is the problem...just as it was in imperial Rome. To blame it all on the president of the day or the Emperor of the day (in Rome) is to miss the point. He's just temporary. And he is, to a great extent, a front man for huge imperial interests who will destroy him if he doesn't serve them obediently and faithfully.

I think Kennedy was the kind of man who had such self-confidence that he thought he could take on certain entrenched powers in the system and beat them. He swore that he would break the CIA, and I think he intended to do just that. I also think that's one of the reasons he died young.

There were things I liked about Kennedy, things I don't see in many USA presidents. He had guts and he had style...and the courage of his convictions. He could inspire people. He was also...as you pointed out...a hell of a lot better than the Republican alternative.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:36 PM

"to make sure that it would not be re-united by abrogating scheduled re-unification and national elections"

The promise of free elections which were disallowed because it was obvious which way the elections were gonna go.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:39 PM

Sorry to seem so lazy, but, were the French in Vietnam for over 200 years? Was the "war" about mining? Mostly phosphorus mines? I apologize for being uneducated about Vietnam and lazy about googling history but it seems some of the posters to this thread may have some "quick" answers in this regard.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 08:55 PM

Right on, 999. Ho Chi Minh would have been elected president of ONE united Vietnam if the scheduled elections had been held. The USA made darn sure that never happened, and installed their handpicked dictator, Ngo Dinh Diem, in the South.

The determination of both the French and the USA to prevent genuine self-rule in Vietnam caused a 30 year war and cost the lives of tens of millions of Vietnamese.

Establishment of the Republic of Vietnam

Main article: 1955 State of Vietnam referendum

Diệm's appointment came after the French had been defeated at the Battle of Dien Bien Phu and were ready to withdraw from Indochina. At the start of 1955, French Indochina was dissolved, leaving Diệm in temporary control of the south.[11] A referendum was scheduled for October 23, 1955 to determine the future direction of the south. It was contested by Bảo Đại, the Emperor, advocating the restoration of the monarchy, while Diệm ran on a republican platform. The elections were held, with Diệm's brother and confidant Ng Đnh Nhu, the leader of the family's Can Lao Party, which supplied Diệm's electoral base, organising and supervising the elections.[12][13] Campaigning for Bảo Đại was prohibited, and the result was rigged, with Bảo Đại supporters attacked by Nhu's workers. Diệm recorded 98.2% of the vote, including 605,025 votes in Saigon, where only 450,000 voters were registered. Diệm's tally also exceeded the registration numbers in other districts.[12][14] Three days later, Diệm proclaimed the formation of the Republic of Vietnam, naming himself President.

Under the 1954 Geneva Accords, Vietnam was to undergo elections in 1956 to reunify the country. Diệm, noting that South Vietnam was not a party to the convention, canceled these. Criticising the Communists, he justified the electoral cancellation by claiming that the 1956 elections would be "meaningful only on the condition that they are absolutely free", despite his numerically impossible tally in the 1955 contest.[15]

After coming under pressure from within the country and the United States, Diệm agreed to hold legislative elections in August 1959 for South Vietnam. Newspapers were not allowed to publish names of independent candidates or their policies, and political meetings exceeding five people were prohibited. Candidates were disqualified for petty reasons such as acts of vandalism against campaign posters. In the rural areas, candidates who ran were threatened using charges of conspiracy with the Viet Cong, which carried the death penalty. Phan Quang Dan, the government's most prominent critic, was allowed to run. Despite the deployment of 8,000 ARVN plainclothes troops into his district to vote, Dan still won with a 61 ratio. The busing of soldiers occurred across the country, and when the new assembly convened, Dan was arrested.


The tale of USA involvement in Vietnam is a tale of international gangsterism on a grand scale. Never has a war been more justly lost than the American War in Vietnam.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 09:04 PM

The earliest French presence was to export tobacco. I am not aware that phosphorus ever entered the deal. The French were as colonializing as were the British, Spanish, Portuguese and Italians. Interesting to note that they all collapsed--almost.

Later, it became about rubber. Then when artificials came along, well, that was that. The houses on the hill fell down.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 09:10 PM

LH, we gotta be two of few people here who ever read Regis Debray. (Nothing to do with Vietnam, no offense to those who want none.)


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 09:10 PM

There's an interesting scene in the extended version of "Apocalypse Now" about some holdout French plantation owners deep in the interior of the country, still defending their little piece of France in Southeast Asia.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Janie
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 10:26 PM

Sheesh, guys.

Seeing, interpreting, judging the world and it's people only through the lens of politics and power is a very narrow view.

LH, I do not at all question the validity of your perceptions of your community when Kennedy was assassinated. I do suggest your perceptions are not a corner on the market on reality. My own perception was and is that the vast majority of a nation's citizens were shocked and grieved by the assassination of a president, regardless of their political views.

Go read some Jung, boys.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 10:49 PM

I agree with you, Janie. The vast majority of Americans were very shocked and grieved by Kennedy's assassination. The mere idea of the president...any president...being assassinated was a total shock to everyone in those prosperous and optimistic times.

The small town I was living in was mostly hard right Republicans who truly hated Kennedy and the Democrats. They were shocked, all right...but some of them could hardly conceal their satisfaction at his demise. I knew people in that town who thought the Congress and federal government were full of secret Communist agents working for the Kremlin and selling out America. I kid you not. It was "Wingnutville", USA.

Upon returning permanently to Canada in 1969 after 10 years living in the vicinity of "Wingnutville", I had tears of relief and joy in my eyes after crossing the Canadian border. I felt like kneeling down and kissing the ground.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 10:57 PM

"Seeing, interpreting, judging the world and it's people only through the lens of politics and power is a very narrow view."

How did you see it, Janie?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: EBarnacle
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:24 PM

If you look at a resource map of SE Asia, you can see a lot of what of the war was about.

Getting back to the original subject, I was in a computer class at Drexel then [Institute of Technology] when the shots were fired. When I left class, a friend told that the President had been shot. My reaction was "President Hagerty?!" the rather unpopular president of the school. Incidently, he was a friend of the Kennedy family. When word got around, we all went over to the student center to watch the proceedings. Going to class seemed rather pointless.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Janie
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:40 PM

How did I see it, Bruce? At that time in my life?

When I reflect on that, I realize I don't see it much differently now from how I saw it then.

Frightening. Destructive. Incomprehensible. At age 11, such an act was not not only inconceivable to me, but also unimaginable.

The beginnings of loss of innocence, perhaps?


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Janie
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:43 PM

Er...awkward choice of words. Not much if any difference between inconceivable and unimaginable.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Janie
Date: 23 Nov 11 - 11:55 PM

I don't know if the grief of the nation would have been more or less intense had it been a different president, but I think the assassination of any president at that time would have provoked intense shock and grief throughout the nation. I am sorry (in some measure) to say I don't think that is true any longer. Intense media and the technological ability to scrutinize being what it is these days, it is not possible to hide the very human clay feet of any world or national leader.

Which tends to leave those of us in parts of the world with access to information who are willing to think without public representations of archetypes and without heroes.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Nancy King
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 12:47 AM

Jeez, seems like I'm a bit older than most of you -- except Kendall, of course... ;o)

I was a senior in college (Colby, in Waterville, Maine) when Kennedy was shot. Had just come back to the dorm after class and lunch. A friend in the dorm told me and my roommate that she'd heard it on the radio and we went to her room and listened to the radio reports all afternoon. That evening everyone gathered in the chapel for an impromptu memorial service. Everyone was terribly shocked. No one was thinking about who or what started the war -- just that this unspeakable thing had happened. I really wanted to go home (Washington DC), but couldn't, because it would have meant missing some classes, and there was a $75 fine for missing the last class before a holiday (Thanksgiving, in this case), and $75 was a lot of money for a student back then.

The next day was Saturday, and I regularly babysat for a professor's kids. I remember watching their TV -- people arriving at the White House in the rain -- and the kids whining in the background, "But I wanna watch Roy Rogers!"

It seemed to me then, and still does, that that's when America lost her innocence. If THAT could happen, then ANYTHING could happen. And of course, lots more horrible things happened later in the 1960s.

Wow -- 50 years next November 22.

--Nancy


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 12:54 AM

Again, I agree. It was a far more innocent and optimistic time than we are in now. Kennedy's death was the loss of innocence for an entire generation.

The media are also crueler now than they were back then, in my opinion. They talk openly about stuff now that they would have been ashamed to talk about openly in 1963.

Heroes are not as easy to find now, that's for sure...specially in the field of politics. I have some heroes, but they are either long dead...or they are musical performers whose work I greatly admire.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Janie
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 01:26 AM

We all must and probably ought at some point lose our innocence. But there is a developmentally appropriate time for that to happen - a stage in cognitive and moral development when the loss of innocence can yield to thoughtful reflection and thoughtful choices (which is not to say that all thoughtful reflections lead all thoughtful people to the same thoughtful conclusions) that are not, by and large, cynical. So far in this thread we are mostly baby boomers commenting.

It occurs to me that it is supremely arrogant of me to speak of an age of innocence. The preceding generations within the memory of most of our cohort here on Mudcat, our mothers and fathers and grandparents, experienced WWI, the Great Depression and WWII, and came away from those experiences determined that the next generation could have the luxury of a time of innocence.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 02:55 AM

It did have an effect on me in the UK. I was about almost 8 and until President Kennedy appeared I hadn't the slightest interest at all in politics. In England I suppose we had been used to a lot of 'stuff shirts' like Macmillan or Douglas Hume and all of a sudden there was JFK who's charisma alone was like a breath of fresh air (my first crush). So it did have a devastating effect on me. As far as I remember my family and I had been watching a certain new British long running soap opera and I remember the newsflash that followed. I also remember the footage of Lee Harvey Oswald getting shot and because I didn't understand being young I was so glad that he got his 'just desserts' it might not be entirely true but that was just seeing it through a child's eyes.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 07:28 AM

He was not a great president; he wasn't even a good president. All he had was charisma.

At least he only started one war.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 08:25 AM

Thank you Kendall. Spot on.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:11 PM

The best account is Thom Hartmann and Lamar Waldron's book "Ultimate Sacrifice"
which tells that Carlos Marcello of the Texas mafia ordered the hit on JFK. This
will soon be made into a movie next year. It was this reason that the US offered it's embargo on Cuba which had nothing to do with the assassination. Appaarently LBJ thought that it did unless (for conspiracy theorists) he had something to do with the hit.

Oliver Stone got it wrong although it made a pretty good movie.

De Caprio will play the guy who gets the skinny from Marcello and Robert de Niro will play Marcello.

Apparently, there were two attempts before Dallas. Each time a patsy was set up.
Johnny Roselli in Chicago ordered it, Trafficante in Miami ordered it but Marcello
succeeded. Oswald was the last patsy and he didn't do it.

Waldron and Hartmann did over a ten year period research on this.

BTW the CIA was in cohoots with Marcello.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:15 PM

He was not a great president; he wasn't even a good president.

Point is, we'll never know. He never had a chance to play it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM

I visited site, stood on the grassy knoll near the tunnel which was sealed up. No way in hell could Oswald have done it, logistically impossible. The cop on the bridge overlooking the street must have been in on it.

Marcello was the missing owner of the Carousel Club that Ruby owned. They were partners. They had to kill Oswald to keep him from blowing the whistle.

Both Marcello and Ruby (nee Rubenstein) are gone now. Ruby was related to Harry Ruby of the Detroit Purple Gang.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 06:37 PM

This last week there was an interesting and fairly convincing documentary on television. They went back to the basics and on to setting up the format from the sixth floor of the building, using laser to establish the means and probability that Oswald was the shooter.

It of course is not conclusive evidence that he acted alone. One thing baffles me. Common sense seems to indicate that most people include other people in their motives and plans, but we are asked time and again to accept that there was no conspiracy, that each assassin acted alone.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: BTNG
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 07:32 PM

Oh right the old CIA were involved conspiracy, them and The Mafia.
At the end of the day, it simply doesn't matter, Kennedy died on 22nd November 1963 and he's still dead now, as are Oswald and Ruby.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: kendall
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 07:51 PM

We must know where we were to know where we are, and we must know where we are to know where we are going.

Experiment. Get a friend to take you to a strange city blindfolded. Get out of his car and try to figure out how to get home.


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: gnu
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 08:11 PM

I can do that Kendall. I don't understand the experiment???


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Subject: RE: BS: President Kennedy assassinated
From: Beer
Date: 24 Nov 11 - 09:53 PM

Neither do I Gnu

Kendall, you made a comment a above that got me thinking. This is your quote "He was not a great President; he wasn't even a good President. All he had was charisma".

Well, today at 60 plus I agree with you a bit. But go back to 63 for a moment. I don't know how old you were but I was 16 and was still living in a world of hero's. Kennedy was one. He had stood up against the Russians in 62 and we were grateful. I know I was because we were scared shit less that they were going to destroy us. Sure lots of propaganda was involved, but I was not 40, 50 or 60 trying to understand politics. I was out there trying to get laid. Politics was the furthest thing from my mind. So yes, he was my hero as were others. All to be destroyed in adulthood.
Point being. I will always consider him a great man because when I reflect back to the age of innocents I still see him as a hero.


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Mudcat time: 31 October 7:34 AM EDT

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