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'Occupy English Folk Music!'

Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 08:06 AM
Mayet 31 Oct 11 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,Jon 31 Oct 11 - 09:09 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 09:31 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 09:50 AM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 10:17 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 31 Oct 11 - 10:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 Oct 11 - 11:02 AM
Folkiedave 31 Oct 11 - 11:11 AM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 11:15 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 11:36 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 11:37 AM
Will Fly 31 Oct 11 - 11:40 AM
Big Al Whittle 31 Oct 11 - 11:44 AM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 11:53 AM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 31 Oct 11 - 12:17 PM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 12:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 Oct 11 - 12:55 PM
The Sandman 31 Oct 11 - 01:08 PM
Folkiedave 31 Oct 11 - 01:18 PM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 01:20 PM
Spleen Cringe 31 Oct 11 - 01:43 PM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 01:47 PM
Banjiman 31 Oct 11 - 01:56 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 31 Oct 11 - 02:02 PM
Folkiedave 31 Oct 11 - 02:11 PM
BTNG 31 Oct 11 - 02:30 PM
Big Al Whittle 31 Oct 11 - 03:12 PM
dick greenhaus 31 Oct 11 - 03:36 PM
Richard Bridge 31 Oct 11 - 04:31 PM
The Sandman 31 Oct 11 - 06:47 PM
theleveller 01 Nov 11 - 04:53 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 01 Nov 11 - 05:00 AM
Will Fly 01 Nov 11 - 05:07 AM
Will Fly 01 Nov 11 - 05:10 AM
johncharles 01 Nov 11 - 05:16 AM
Will Fly 01 Nov 11 - 05:17 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 01 Nov 11 - 05:19 AM
Banjiman 01 Nov 11 - 05:21 AM
GUEST,Jon 01 Nov 11 - 05:48 AM
theleveller 01 Nov 11 - 06:13 AM
Banjiman 01 Nov 11 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 01 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM
johncharles 01 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM
GUEST,Jon 01 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM
GUEST,Jon 01 Nov 11 - 06:58 AM
johncharles 01 Nov 11 - 07:13 AM
Spleen Cringe 01 Nov 11 - 07:16 AM
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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:06 AM

Stobbit! You rascal!!   lol


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Mayet
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 08:49 AM

@ Lizzie Cornish 30 Oct 11 - 01:52 PM

I happen to support Folk Against Fascism which I feel is a responsible organization set up by sincere people who were prepared to do something more than parrot swear words on a forum to combat the abuse of English folk performers recordings ('traditional' or 'singer songwriters') by an extreme rightwing/racist organization.

Your description of some members as 'The English Folk Fascists' is gratuitous, nasty and certainly not in any way 'funny' if you really believe that just adding 'LOL' makes it so that rather indicates a lack of respect for others intelligence. (Not so much 'tongue in cheek' than sticking the tongue out.)
But if, in its transparent provocation, it's typical of your posts I can well understand why you may have been removed from forums not quite so 'deregulated' as this one.

I have visited a Native American reservation, not some reconstruction for the benefit of tourists and spoken to the real people not some myth - have you?
If not, I can certainly understand the reference to your concept as being reminiscent of the patronizing 'Noble Savage' viewpoint but, I'm at a loss to the motive for introduction into a thread about English folk music.

I think I have seen too much much of your 'soul' as I would wish.
big **g**
Please put it away now, there's a good girl. LOL


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:09 AM

The weather has been awful for turnips this year.

Good weather for stone fruit this year...


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:29 AM

Mayet,

With due respect, you know nothing of the story. I won't put it down *again*, but suffice to say, I stand by my words that there are a few concerned with Folk Against Facism who have behaved like fascists towards me and others, I'm sure. They do the English Folk World a grave injustice, but then, until the English Folk World sorts out those who seek to keep others away, who belittle other musicians, or make their lives a misery by degrading their talents, purely because it does not come onto their radar, then this small world will remain small, not only in numbers but in thought and mind.

And with regard to having visited an American Indian Reservation, no I have not done so, for I live in England, however, I am in touch with some very kind, wise and decent American Indians and Native People, via Facebook..and I have far more respect for them than many in the EFW who have behaved as they have towards me, and others.

So, I'll say to you, with the utmost respect, it is very difficult for you to make a comment when you do not know precisely what has gone on for many years.   And whilst I appreciate the ethos of FAF, (who wouldn't?) I refuse to be a hypocrite and join something that is run by folks for whom I have no respect whatsoever.

Thank you again and I hope you enjoy your time with FAF and the English Folk World...and I apologise if my humour is not your humour, but I'm afraid that's something which is also lacking within many parts of the EFW, but I refuse, point blank, to give up my humour, my merriment, my way of being who I am, purely to 'fit in' with the rules and regulations laid down by a domineering minority.


So, onward and upward!

And as one of Bo-Peeps little followers would say......


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:31 AM

Oh fook, wrong link! But then, maybe it was just as well....... ;0)


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 09:50 AM

Oh...and Mayet, if I may draw your attention to some of the derisory comments from some folks about music they deem not folk, in this thread:

'What is Folk Music? - This is'

Thank you.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:17 AM

I happen to support Folk Against Fascism...
good for you Mayet, good for you, My opinion is that they're simply the opposite side of the coin to the BNP, both trying to gain, without any qualifications, the moral high ground in British culture.

Now run along, there's a good boy/girl, I hear your mummy calling you (must be bedtime)


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 10:41 AM

I have visited a "reservation" called "Foxwoods" near Norwich, M.A. It is a casino like they are going out of fashion. I understand the Indian nation are allowed to run these establishments with extremely favourable taxation rates, if any. It is a superb venue with hotel, restaurants, gaming rooms and everything you would expect to find in a casino.They ship in coach loads of Chinese, 24/7, to relieve them of their dosh at games which I feel only the Chinese can understand ( all the writing around and on the table was Chinese).
       Good luck to the tribes associated with these places because the money that can be earned for good causes must run into millions.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:02 AM

You are all being very nasty and patronising to Lizzie../// I do not approve of this at all. Lizzie is a lovely. I have long cherished an ambition to get her to run away with me to the nudist colony. And there we will talk subversive folk music, and I will get to grips with her fiery radicalism.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:11 AM

I don't know when you last went out, Lizzie, and had a listen to what's around the clubs these days. It's not the music that stuck in a museum - the old songs are as lovely as they ever were - and it's all down to the way in which they placed in front of the audience and to the skill of the performer From the very sensible Will Fly.

Now Lizzie - let's put this to the test, which of those people on that thread "What is Folk Music" are members of Folk Against Fascism Go on name names. No chance of you being sued.

And by the way - you forgot to tell us how one of the members of Show of Hands asked you to stop talking about them in the way you did.

Watch out for tomahawks.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:15 AM

and watch out for the knife in the back, you just never know, do you?


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:36 AM

"Now Lizzie - let's put this to the test, which of those people on that thread "What is Folk Music" are members of Folk Against Fascism Go on name names. No chance of you being sued."

I never said they were. I said *this*:

"Oh...and Mayet, if I may draw your attention to some of the derisory comments from some folks about music they deem not folk, in this thread:"

I was merely using that thread to illustrate the strange behaviour, where instead of folks coming in saying "Hey, that's good" (although some did and thank you for that) they come in knocking it, left, right and centre, being spiteful and nasty...

As for you obviously wanting to 'embarrass' me over Show of Hands, that won't work either. Paste the letter in here, if that's what floats your boat. Again, all you will do is illustrate to others exactly WHY we, The 99%, need to Occupy English Folk Music, to rid it, once and for all of The Spiteful, Spitting Turnip Heads who, although only a minority, delight in making life, or rather *trying* to make life as nasty as they can for others whom they do not like, for whatever reason...

Now, if you'll excuse me, Robert Mirabal is calling...
Thank you..


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:37 AM

Al, you do make me chuckle! I know it's not allowed, but.... ;0)


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Will Fly
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:40 AM

Oi - Whittle - no! She's mine, I tell you - all mine...


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:44 AM

Folkiedave - youy tried that stunt with me. Name names.....! No. A thousand times no.

We know these people, we like them, we've grown up with them. We mourn when they die.

But we don't agree with their opinions and the restrictions they observe about folk music. Our opinions differ. Its allowed.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:53 AM

Ena Sharples!!! THAT'S who folkiedave reminds me of!


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 11:57 AM

It's not folk but ray davies always knows when to say the right wor....

so...

Granny's always raving and ranting
And she's always puffing and panting
And she's always screaming and shouting
And she's always brewing up tea

Grandpappy's never late for his dinner
Cause he loves his leg of beef
And he washes it down with a brandy
And a fresh made cup of tea

Chorus:
Have a cup of tea, have a cup of tea
Have a cup of tea, have a cup of tea
Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah, Rosie lea
Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah Rosie lea

If you feel a bit under the weather
If you feel a little bit peeved
Take granny's stand-by potion
For any old cough or wheeze
It's a cure for hepatitis it's a cure for chronic insomnia
It's a cure for tonsillitis and for water on the knee

Chorus

Tea in the morning, tea in the evening, tea at supper
Time
You get tea when it's raining, tea when it's snowing
Tea when the weather's fine
You get tea as a mid-day stimulant
You get tea with your afternoon tea
For any old ailment or disease
For Christ sake have a cup of tea

Chorus

Whatever the situation whatever the race or creed
Tea knows no segregation, no class nor pedigree
It knows no motivations, no sect or organization
It knows no one religion
Nor political belief


LOL


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 12:17 PM

"I was merely using that thread to illustrate the strange behaviour, where instead of folks coming in saying "Hey, that's good" (although some did and thank you for that) they come in knocking it, left, right and centre, being spiteful and nasty..."

Oh! You mean criticism, Lizzie! Yes, very nasty, criticism! Why would anyone need criticism when everything's so spiritual and floaty and lovely?


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 12:24 PM

this isn't criticism is it, I mean, come on, own up, it's not REALLY criticism is it...? it's just being plain spiteful...*hands out dictionaries to those who are English language challenged*


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 12:55 PM

I don't think anyone on this side of the divide is into diss-ing one of our colleagues artistic endeavours, and lifetime's work.

But we're allowed not to agree that the 'traditional' folk is the only valid means of expression for English folksingers.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:08 PM

And by the way - you forgot to tell us how one of the members of Show of Hands asked you to stop talking about them in the way you did.
The above statement is completely irrelevant.
I do not agree with Lizzie, but she is entitled to her opinion, without being attacked in this way by a bully.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:18 PM

And as I've said before, I don't do the 'sex' thing, I do the 'Love' thing, so there....

I hope you'll both be very happy.

As for you obviously wanting to 'embarrass' me over Show of Hands, that won't work either.

You did that yourself Lizzie which is why SoH wrote a cease and desist letter.

Al it isn't a stunt. As far as i am concerned Lizzie can like what she likes, when she likes and where she likes. She and you can like whatever music you like. Only when you feel there is some sort of conspiracy stopping you doing that - when there isn't - do I feel like contradicting you. Lizzie simply starts off these threads as a chance to feed her paranoia.

Mostly I ignore these days - as I did on the thread she refers to above - but there are times when she spouts so much horlicks and there are people who don't realise she has a lot of history that feel the need to point it out.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:20 PM

I made the mistake at one point in thinking Folkiedave was a nice person with some talent, I was wrong, he isn't a nice person and the only talent he does have is bullying others and being thoroughly spiteful individual.

I was right he does remind me of Ena Sharples.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:43 PM

BTNG said: "My opinion is that they're simply the opposite side of the coin... both trying to gain, without any qualifications, the moral high ground in British culture.".

One is a political party deeply rooted in fascism who attempted (unsuccessfully, it should added) to annex English folk music as part of their political agenda. The other is a broad non-party political coming together of folk musicians, fans and music biz types to let people know about this and to say "no" to it. They certainly aren't two sides of the same coin by any definition.

***

Now I'm out of here. The thread is running its predictable course, on both sides of the coin...


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:47 PM

I say no to both


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Banjiman
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 01:56 PM

"One is a political party deeply rooted in fascism who attempted (unsuccessfully, it should added) to annex English folk music as part of their political agenda. The other is a broad non-party political coming together of folk musicians, fans and music biz types to let people know about this and to say "no" to it. They certainly aren't two sides of the same coin by any definition."

I think that this is the first thing that has been said on this thread that makes any sense at all (to me at least).

Amen Mr Cringe.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 02:02 PM

"You did that yourself Lizzie which is why SoH wrote a cease and desist letter."

If you want me to pour out everything, you won't get me to do it, for *despite* Phil writing that letter, I still choose to put their songs out there on the internet for others to see, to bring others into their music, the ethos of their songs.

I would suggest you do the same, as those songs are needed very much at present. I post them fairly regularly on the BBC Breakfast page, Occupy Wall Street, Occupy The London Stock Exchange, Occupy Canada, Australia and even The White House Facebook page....and ALWAYS they are greeted positively.

I'll leave you now to stew in The Stew Of Your Own Making.......

And thank you for demonstrating the spiteful bile that lies within The English Folk World.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 02:11 PM

I am with Spleen on this one.

And thanks for that Sam. I do love people who post under a variety of names.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: BTNG
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 02:30 PM

you are not in any position to lecture anyone on any subject so please spare me your self righteousness...your true colours are loud and very clear...I won't make the mistake again


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 03:12 PM

We can only live the life we're given Dave, and why you choose to deny me the right to bear witness as to what I have seen and experienced, I don't know.

In private I can't think of any musician of note who doesn't agree with me, although many keep their mouths quiet on the subject because they are frightened of offending people who have the ability to block their career path.

Now - give it a break for godsake. Its something you won't experience, unless you are an innovative songwriter or musician. If you are - it will biff you on the nose.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 03:36 PM

What I'd love to find out is when "folk" became a synonym for "good". There's lot's of good music that's not folk; there's lots of bad music that is.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 04:31 PM

You are of course right Dick.

But Lizzie won't have it (in either sense of the words).   If she thinks it "sounds folkie" then it must be folk music. If she says sex can only be justified by love then it must be so. Regrettably she is so far from saying anything rational here or elsewhere in her views about folk music or folk-alike music that she deserves nothing other than being totally ignored on those topics, which I propose now to try to do.

FAF have never (as far as I now) made any judgement about what is or what is not folk music. Indeed most of the bands/performers I hear play in support of it are not "folk" as such at all. FAF was simply an opposition to racist fascistic movements seeking to occupy folk music (in the sense of largely traditional music) simply because it was white and English. It was a symbol, for them, of their racial identity. And that it is not.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Oct 11 - 06:47 PM

In private I can't think of any musician of note who doesn't agree with me, although many keep their mouths quiet on the subject because they are frightened of offending people who have the ability to block their career path.
I agree,furthermore I dont care whether it affects my career path, I came into this music because I thought it was music that was really about people expressing their creativity, rather than it being an item to be sold as a consumer commodity


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 04:53 AM

"the spiteful bile that lies within The English Folk World. "

I'm afraid that I'd have to agree with you on that one, Lizzie. When I came back into the folk scene 15 years ago after a break of 25 years, I was appalled at how factional and, in places, authoritarian it had become. I am, by nature, an anarchist - by which I mean that I dislike central authority in all aspects of life. One of the things that attracted me to folk music way back in the mid-60s was that it was young, vibrant, local, individual and even feral. Above all it seemed relevant - young people regaining their heritage from the old fogeys. Nowadays, at every level, right down to sessions and singarounds, there are all too often people who want to dictate how things should be run - even down to saying just what folk music is. Personally, I'm getting totally pissed off with it; it takes away the enjoyment, discourages newcomers - especially young people, who seem to be regarded as a nuisance (look at the The Butlins Folk Festival thread)- and, to be honest, is one of the reasons why I'm getting less and less involved in the folk scene. I can't be arsed any more with the boring bleating old traddies who seem to think that it's their music. So, should the rest of us occupy folk music? Unfortunately, the young, idealistic radicals who form the backbone of most demonstrations simply aren't interested in folk music. Hardly surprising, really.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:00 AM

A few weeks back I was listening to Judy Spiers, on BBC Radio Devon...She had a guest on, but I didn't catch his name (!!!) He was talking about the Folk world though, he was a singer, musician...and he was saying that back in the 60s he and Mike Harding used to sing in many folks clubs. These clubs were packed out, great to play in, great to be a part of.

Then, 'something happened' and he said they were taken over by humourless, controlling people with an axe to grind, which took the very heart out of the clubs, the audience and the musicians.

He sounded so sad about it, so pissed off too..and he said how many folk clubs have either now closed completely, or just limp along with a tiny audience....


Wish I could find his name! Although, maybe it's best not to, for I'm sure 'retribution' would come a-visiting.....


And yes, I too know musicians who are shit-scared of upsetting the controlling folks who seek to control the careers of so many..


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:07 AM

Interesting viewpoint, leveller, and I understand what you're saying. Actually, if you chassé to one side, away from the folk scene and into other musical scenes, it can be just the same story. I've seen huge arguments between jazz musicians about what constitutes jazz, with phrases like "mouldy figs" and "dirty bopper" passing into the currency. Try playing a wrong note or singing a wrong phrase in a Buddy Holly song in front of an audience of dedicated 1950s rock'n roll devotees. Some large ted with a scowl on his face may wander up to you and accuse you, with some justification, of not doing it right... I speak from experience.

It's a shame when passion for music, in any of its forms, becomes intolerance. I haven't encountered too much of that since I returned, now and then, to the folk world about five years ago, but it raises its scaly head now and then. I don't pay any attention.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:10 AM

Hey Lizzie - you're still here. I thought you'd run away to a nudist colony with that scoundrel Whittle... :-)


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: johncharles
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:16 AM

is Lizzie going to Fly with Will or jet off with Whittle? - to be continued.......


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Will Fly
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:17 AM

LOL!


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:19 AM

I was waiting for *both* of you, Will.... ;0)

After all, I'm still recovering from that much remembered 'A Night with Alan Day and Will Fly'

Phew! WHAT a night! ;0)


(that'll get Richard terribly excited!) ;0) x


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:21 AM

Leveller, Lizzie,

You're painting pictures of the folk scene that only reflect part of the picture.

There are clubs out there that are still great......and well attended.

and anyway, if you're unhappy about the state of clubs, festivals etc why not start your own? Run it how you would like to see it run..... create it in the image of the great things you remember. You can do it if you really want to!

Paul


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 05:48 AM

Nowadays, at every level, right down to sessions and singarounds, there are all too often people who want to dictate how things should be run - even down to saying just what folk music is.

If you mean the organisers or with sessions and singarounds perhaps the regular group a) I don't see why thy shouldn't do this and b) I don't see anything new in this. I don't think I've been anywhere that hasn't had some limit somewhere along the lines as to what constitutes folk or is appropriate for their purposes at their event.

If you mean other people, I'm not sure that I've encountered it much in the real world but I am certainly aware of the topic at Mudcat.

In general, it seems to me that those with the more rigid what is folk ideas are happy enough for folk clubs, sessions etc. events each to run on their own terms. I do agree that some from the other side do not see each event having it's own limits as being reasonable though.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:13 AM

"There are clubs out there that are still great......and well attended."

Thereare indeed, Paul - and Kirkby Fleetham stands out as a rare pearl - only wish itwere closer.

As for starting my own club - it has been mooted but, at the moment, life's getting in the way. Anyway, off for a jam on Sunday with an old friend who's a brilliant guitarist. We'll see if anything develops but it will, at least, be FUN.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Banjiman
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:21 AM

"Thereare indeed, Paul - and Kirkby Fleetham stands out as a rare pearl - only wish itwere closer."

For once I wasn't trying to promote our own club (honest). I'll name others- Cottingham Live, Bodmin (not handy for you Lev, I know!), The Davy Lamp, Croydon, Horsham..... there are a lot more, and these just happen to be one's that I (or the better half) have been to!

It ain't half a s black as some would paint it!

Glad you'll be having some FUN!


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM

"Nowadays, at every level, right down to sessions and singarounds, there are all too often people who want to dictate how things should be run -"

I assume that you mean that the organisers of sessions and singarounds want to dictate how things are run? And why on earth shouldn't they?! If I had gone to the trouble of setting up a session or singaround I would EXPECT, as my right, to have a say in how it was run. If someone flounced in to my session or singaround and loudly and shrilly (no names - no pack drill!)announced that I was doing it all wrong and that I was oppressing her (or him) by sticking to the session or singaround's stated policy I would tell her (or him) to f**k off!

I currently attend a Folk Club and a regular singaround. Both of these have clearly stated policies and I am perfectly happy to abide by those policies. That is how things work. As far as I can see a person who strongly disagrees with a particular club, session or singaround's policy should either go elsewhere or start their own club, session or singaround.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: johncharles
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM

Discussions like this tend to be rather vague. I am still not sure of the kind of material which some are accused of finding unacceptable in a "folk" setting. I play in a trio which has played a number of local folk clubs and a typical set would be as follows
Millions Mister, Bonny George Campbell, Stagolee, Deportees, Amelia Earhart's Last flight, Darcy Farrow, Charlie Chaplin, Patrick Pearse, Roseville Fair, Miners Lifeguard, Wallace Hartley Titanic Band, Where no one stands alone, Now I'm easy, Bunny run, Burden Down.
A mix of old and new which seems to be well received. Sometimes it is not what you do but the way that you do it.
As for the constraints of some settings we have got round that one by starting our own session once a month in a local pub. We play what we want how we want but are also happy to oblige customers with requests if we know them. ( still not got round to learning duelling banjos) It is good experience playing to a wider audience. More taking the music out to people than bringing musicians into the folk setting.
john


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:42 AM

but it will, at least, be FUN.

But so would a night of melodoen (I seem to remember you hate these) playing be fun to those participating as would a night of unaccompanied traditional song to those participating. etc.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 06:58 AM

Well JohnCharles, I'd imagine if I was involved with running a folk club now, it would be fine even though these days I use a narrow "what is folk?" definition.

The point I'm trying to make here is that personally I do consider "how would I define folk?" and "what would I consider to be appropriate for this folk event?" different matters.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: johncharles
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 07:13 AM

Jon, I think we are in agreement. it seems to me both in life in general, and also with respect to music that one of the duties of a guest is to respect their host.


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Subject: RE: 'Occupy English Folk Music!'
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 01 Nov 11 - 07:16 AM

It's weird. The folk club five minutes from my house meets weekly and is usually packed. It's mainly singer songwriters and cover versions with the odd trad song thrown in. A lot of the stuff I hear when I occasionally go there isn't my cup of tea - but people enjoy it and are having fun. There certainly aren't hordes of traddies bursting down the doors to close it down and tell people what they are doing isn't folk. And the club has organisers, but they don't impose anything on anyone, they just do things like ensure the club keeps going, because they want to give their time in this way. I suspect they quite like things as they are, but that's not a problem is it?

Meanwhile, the singaround five minutes in the other direction advertises itself as 'mainly but not exclusively traditional'. That's what it tends to be - you'll hear lots of trad songs - often unnaccompanied - but no-one tuts or leaves the room when Gordon sings Wheels On Fire with his guitar chugging away or Chris does a country and western parody with banjo backing. There's even the odd songwriter turning up and they always get a respectful hearing. The bloke who organises it (when he's not off around the world in his caravan) is encouraging, not authoritarian and gives his time freely because he wants the singaround to keep going. Again, he probably likes things as they are, but again that's surely not a problem. There's always a decent turn out.

Some people even go to both. Maybe (the horror! the horror!) they like a bit of variety in music. Both get a sprinkling of young people, if that's important, who are quite capable of making up their own minds about what they like.

So I guess I don't really recognise the picture that's being painted of authoritarian traddies shoving singer songwriters on the flames and dancing round their burning corpses. It doesn't happen in Chorlton, I tell you!

I wish when these vague and general comments about authoritarian types who destroy people's careers and generally make the folk scene a horrible place were raised, the people raising them could give specific examples. Otherwise I'll continue to trust my own experience. And I have changed my mind - I used to think the folk scene was crap when I first made the leap from listening to folk music on record to checking out live stuff, but now I think its just a bit odd - but often endearingly so.

Meanwhile, when I last saw Charlie Parr - a folk singer if I ever heard one - I was easily the oldest person there and could have been the dad of most of the audience (figuratively not literally, of course).

*******

By the way, I agree entirely with Leveller about the pathetic spectacle of the Butlins Folk Weekend banning kids. But I think that's a business decision and nothing to do with the lives of most folk enthusiasts.

*******

Gone again. I said I wasn't going to bother with tis thread anymore and I lied.


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