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Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers

DigiTrad:
DIE MOORSOLDATEN
PEAT BOG SOLDIERS
PEAT BOG SOLDIERS (3)


Related threads:
Prison Songs (26)
(origins) Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers pre-WWII? (10) (closed)
moorsoldaten (8) (closed)
Peat Bog Soldiers (5) (closed)
Lyr Req: The Peat Bog Soldiers (5) (closed)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Peat Bog Soldiers (Moorsoldaten) (fro Something to Sing About, Okun)


GUEST,Peter Laban 12 Dec 19 - 01:18 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 12 Dec 19 - 11:30 AM
Mrrzy 12 Dec 19 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Dec 19 - 05:42 PM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Dec 19 - 05:38 PM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Dec 19 - 05:31 PM
Jack Campin 11 Dec 19 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Gerry 09 Dec 19 - 12:49 AM
GeoffLawes 08 Dec 19 - 05:49 PM
Tuvya 08 Dec 19 - 11:34 AM
Jason Xion Wang 19 Mar 14 - 02:04 AM
GeoffLawes 15 Jan 11 - 09:04 AM
Jack Campin 14 Jan 11 - 08:11 PM
GeoffLawes 14 Jan 11 - 07:33 PM
Jack Campin 25 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM
Mr Happy 24 Mar 10 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,GEST without a cookie 05 Apr 09 - 05:53 PM
Mysha 05 Apr 09 - 12:27 PM
GUEST,actually Joe_F 30 Nov 07 - 08:59 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 30 Nov 07 - 12:12 AM
GUEST,mg 07 Jan 07 - 03:06 PM
GUEST,jan 06 Jan 07 - 04:05 PM
Rain Dog 29 Apr 05 - 08:26 AM
Pauline L 29 Apr 05 - 01:33 AM
Abby Sale 28 Apr 05 - 08:58 PM
Franz S. 28 Apr 05 - 12:28 PM
Uncle_DaveO 28 Apr 05 - 12:20 PM
nutty 28 Apr 05 - 12:16 PM
Rain Dog 28 Apr 05 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Alex 28 Apr 05 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 05 Sep 04 - 07:22 PM
GUEST,.gargole 05 Sep 04 - 06:32 PM
GUEST,rafflesbear 05 Sep 04 - 05:48 PM
Abby Sale 05 Sep 04 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 05 Sep 04 - 05:22 PM
Abby Sale 05 Sep 04 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Sep 04 - 03:58 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Sep 04 - 03:55 PM
belfast 04 Sep 04 - 03:54 PM
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GUEST,.gargoyle 04 Sep 04 - 02:15 PM
Susanne (skw) 04 Sep 04 - 08:34 AM
BB 03 Sep 04 - 05:15 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 Jun 04 - 04:53 PM
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GUEST,.gargoyle 29 Jun 04 - 04:06 PM
mack/misophist 20 Jan 03 - 10:56 AM
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GUEST,Frank Hamilton 20 Jan 03 - 09:51 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Jan 03 - 05:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 01:18 PM

Rum was also the first I heard play 'De Berendans' during the early seventies or so. Perhaps we can blame them for that one as well.

But hey did a nice job on the Moorsoldaten and many other things, Wiet van der Leest's musettes on the tenor guitar were always great.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 11:30 AM

Here a Dutch (or in this case, Flemish) version:

Rum : Moorsoldaten

Rum was a Flemish group active during the seventies. Through their Argentinian band member they were also responsible for putting La Partida out in the wider international folkscene.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 11:25 AM

Man, I had this by the Clancies or the Dubliners and always though it was about the Troubles. Mom was totally tonedeaf but I'll ask my uncle about it. They survived the camps.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Dec 19 - 05:42 PM

In Italian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62CPvIhm2t0


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Dec 19 - 05:38 PM

I think this one's Norwegian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_eDVNflWxg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Dec 19 - 05:31 PM

There are French lyrices at https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Chant_des_déportés


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Dec 19 - 11:36 AM

I figured this song might have made it internationally into a whole lot of translations. But all I can find are English, German and maybe Russian (link didn't work). I tried Greek, Turkish, Italian and French - nothing. Have I missed something?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 09 Dec 19 - 12:49 AM

Three more recordings on YouTube:

The Mitchell Trio
The Black Family
Ian Campbell Folk Group


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 08 Dec 19 - 05:49 PM

There are many performances of the song on Youtube - here are some
Moorsoldaten (Peat Bog Soldiers) · Pete Seeger
Theodore Bikel - Peat Bog Soldiers / Die Moorsoldaten (1968)
The Peat Bog Soldiers - Paul Robeson
The Dubliners
Luke Kelly: Peat Bog Soldiers
Lankum
Ernst Busch, Die Moorsoldaten (The Peat Bog Soldiers)
"The Peat Bog Soldiers" by The McCalmans
Peat Bog Soldiers · Swan Arcade


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Tuvya
Date: 08 Dec 19 - 11:34 AM

Check Jerry Silverman's translation in The Undying Flame collection. I believe he rhymed "soldiers" and "shoulders" (as in "shovels on our shoulders")


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 19 Mar 14 - 02:04 AM

The Mitchell Trio's intro to the song:

In the early 1930's, the concentration camps of Germany began filling up with hundreds, then thousands, then hundreds of thousands of Hitler's political enemies. These were the men who resisted the Nazi tyranny until they had to be destroyed. But they always dreamed of freedom, if not for themselves, but been for their children.

From album Violets of Dawn, 1966


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 15 Jan 11 - 09:04 AM

Here is the Text to which Campin Jack refers and Babelfish translation. I don't think it necessarily overturns Eisler's description of the tune origin.

Das Börgermoorlied
oder das „Moorsoldatenlied"
"Die Moorsoldaten", das bekannteste Lied des deutschen Widerstandes, vielleicht das schönste Lied der deutschen Arbeiterbewegung überhaupt, entstand 1933 im "Staatlichen preußischen Konzentrationslager I Börgermoor (Papenburg)". Häftlinge des KZ Börgermoor veranstalteten eine Zirkusveranstaltung ("Zirkus Konzentrazani") für ihre Mitgefangenen und die SS-Bewacher. Erst nach Auseinandersetzungen innerhalb der KZ-Häftlinge setzte eine Mehrheit die Vorstellung durch. Eines der Argumente war, man müsse der SS demonstrieren, daß man trotz Folterungen nicht zerbrochen worden sei. Zum Schloß der Darbietungen wurde das Lied "Die Moorsoldaten" erstmals gesungen. Der Komponist Rudi Goguel beschrieb die Uraufführung später folgendermaßen:

"Die sechzehn Sänger, vorwiegend Mitglieder des Solinger Arbeitergesangsverein, marschierten in ihren grünen Polizeiuniformen (unsere damalige Häftlingskleidung) mit geschulterten Spaten in die Arena, ich selbst an der Spitze in blauem Trainingsanzug mit einem abgebrochenen Spatenstiel als Taktstock. Wir sangen, und bereits bei der zweiten Strophe begannen die fast 1000 Gefangenen den Refrain mitzusummen. Von Strophe zu Strophe steigerte sich der Refrain, und bei der letzten Strophe sangen auch die SS-Leute, die mit ihren Kommandanten erschienen waren, einträchtig mit uns mit, offenbar, weil sie sich selbst als "Moorsoldaten" angesprochen fühlten. Bei den Worten "..Dann ziehn die Moorsoldaten nicht mehr mit den Spaten ins Moor" stießen die sechzehn Sänger die Spaten in den Sand und marschierten aus der Arena, die Spaten zurücklassen, die nun, in der Moorerde steckend, als Grabkreuze wirkten."

Bereits zwei Tage später wurde das Lied von der Lagerleitung verboten. Auf Kopien wurde es dennoch aus dem Lager herausgeschmuggelt. So hatte z.B. der Mülheimer Otto Gaudig, der als Schuster im KZ Börgermoor arbeitete, das Liedblatt zwischen Sohle und Brandsohle eingenäht, um es sicher aus dem Lager herausbringen zu können.
Die erste Fassung von Esser/ Langhoff nach der Musik von Goguel bearbeitete Eisler 1935 für den Sänger Ernst Busch.

Babelfish Translation German into English



The Börgermoorlied or „the moorland soldier song " " The Moorsoldaten" , the most well-known song of the German resistance, perhaps the most beautiful song of the German workers' movement at all, developed 1933 in " National one Prussian concentration camps I Börgermoor (Papenburg) ". Prisoners of the KZ Börgermoor organized a circus meeting (" Circus Konzentrazani") for their Mitgefangenen and the SS-Bewacher. Only after arguments within the KZ-prisoners a majority implemented the conception. One of the arguments was, one must the SS demonstrate that one had not been broken despite tortures. To the lock of the presentations the song was " The Moorsoldaten" for the first time sung. The composer Rudi Goguel described the premiere later as follows: " Sixteen the singers, predominantly members of the Solinger worker singing association, marched in its green police uniforms (our prisoner clothes at that time) with geschulterten spades into the arena, I at the point in blue training suit with a broken off Spatenstiel as baton. We sang, and with the second Strophe those already began to along-hum nearly 1000 prisoners the Refrain. From Strophe to Strophe the Refrain increased, and with the last Strophe also the SS-people, which had appeared with their commanders, sang in-pregnant with us also, obviously, because them " themselves as; Moorsoldaten" felt responded. With the words ". Then ziehn the moorland soldiers no more with the spades in the Moor" sixteen the singers the spades pushed into the sand and marched from the arena, which spades leave, now, in the moorland earth being, when Grabkreuze wirkten." Already two days later the song was forbidden by the camp line. On copies it was out-smuggled nevertheless from the camp. Thus the Mülheimer Otto Gaudig, which worked as a shoemaker in the KZ Börgermoor, had e.g. inserted the song sheet between sole and fire sole, in order to be able to bring it out surely from the camp. The first version of Esser/long-hope after the music Eisler worked on by Goguel 1935 for the singer Ernst Busch.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 08:11 PM

This version of the origin of the song seems to imply Goguel composed it without any reuse of an older tune:

Hans Lauter - Moorsoldat

(Near the end of the page. My German isn't up to much though).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 14 Jan 11 - 07:33 PM

The Union Songs site has an item about this song which quotes from a book by Hanns Eisler "HANNS EISLER A REBEL IN MUSIC" published by International Publishers, New York and Seven Seas Books, Berlin. ©1978. I think the end of the Union Songs item is telling us that the first part of its quoted section from the Eisler book is a translation in English of publicity material which Eisler used in New York in 1935, probably during a solidarity tour. The Eisler version of the song's origin presented here has a feel of propagandising about it and does not name the creators of the lyrics but his information about the origins of the tune is interesting THE LINK IS HERE:http://unionsong.com/reviews/peatbog.html

I would very much like to establish exactly what part Eisler played in giving the song the tune to which it is now sung.The conclusion of the Union Songs item seems to be that the words were written by Esser and Langhoff, the melody of the verses was taken from a song from the Thirty Years War, the chorus melody was the work of Rudi Goguel, and in 1935 Hanns Eisler made an arrangement of the song and provided a piano accompaniment.

Does anyone recognise the song from the Thirty Years War that Eisler quotes but does not name ?

Children, listen to the wind howling
Howling against the windows.
Children, where Tilly wreaks havoc
Specters are dwelling.


The link to the radio programme given by Gargoyle above (http://www.prx.org/preview.do?id=1156 ) now takes you to a site which says the page no longer exists. Does anyone know if it can be found elsewhere?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Mar 10 - 10:26 AM

Does anyone happen to know the name or the lyrics of the song about the Jewish collective in the Crimea?

"Hey Zhankoye".

Pretty creepy song, given that Zhankoye is a Turkish name - the Jewish collective must have been allocated land vacated by Stalin's deportations of the Crimean Tatars. It predates the main wave of deportation, but Zhankoye was the main crossroads for road and rail links into the Crimea from the north, so presumably Stalin got it dealt with first and had his Jewish collective planted as a handy force of collaborators in the coming genocide. It was a popular song with the US folk revival in the 50s and 60s, like other items of now-unsingable Zionist propaganda. I would be curious to know who was behind this. ("Peatbog Soldiers" is not one of them, of course - the prisoners it talks about were Communists, not Jews).


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Mar 10 - 10:29 AM

Moor more here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_Bog_Soldiers


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,GEST without a cookie
Date: 05 Apr 09 - 05:53 PM

I'm partial to the variant (with sound video) by Ryan's Fancy on this page: Peat Bog Soldiers :-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Mysha
Date: 05 Apr 09 - 12:27 PM

Hi,

As far as I can determine, the two versions mentioned above are actually the same version: Hanns Eisler mistakenly assumed the melody of the Börgermoorliet was that of a song from the thirty year war (that, in the radio broadcast, I can't decypher the title of), and that version went to the Spanish Civil War, from where artists like Pete Seger took it to places around the globe. That's all the same version.

The other, the original version, is different. Unfortunately, in the broadcast after the first strophe the song is continued in a different style, very appropriate but not as easy to follow. Does anyone know the first voice of that version?

                                                                Mysha


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,actually Joe_F
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 08:59 PM

Volgadon: Probably "Dzhankoy". Pete Seeger has sung it a good deal. There is a thread about it under "Zhankoye".


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 30 Nov 07 - 12:12 AM

I bought a CD of Israeli versions of Russian songs, and in the liner notes the editor, Nahum Heyman, mentions an army radio program from '76 of soldier and resistance songs. Amongst the unreleased material is a version peat-bog soldiers. Hopefully he can get this released some time soon, as I personally think a Hebrew rendering would be amazing.


"It was a very special evening. He sang songs I'd never heard before, one about a Jewish farm cooperative in The Crimea, another about a dying queen's confession of adultery, some humorous songs and then he played Moor Soldaten, singing it in both German and English. This group made up mostly of some of the most privileged people in America who I would guess had minimal first hand experience with evil became silent and thoughtful as they listened to the story of the forced laborers. It was a lovely moment in that the song made it possible for us to share for a moment a fragment of their pain and to file it away as part of our empathy library making it easier for us to rmember how much we share with all people.

Sourdough"

Does anyone happen to know the name or the lyrics of the song about the Jewish collective in the Crimea? Via Nova, as it was called, is a fascinating slice of history and I would love learn any song about it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 Jan 07 - 03:06 PM

It is an awesome song. I would like to hear more from Jan about possibly growing up in East Germany and how things are going etc. I was in Germany when the wall was still coming down and have little bits of it still...mg


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Subject: RE: Origins: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,jan
Date: 06 Jan 07 - 04:05 PM

Börgermoor and Dachau are from 1933 to 1945 NAZI concentration camps !! later also use by the allied. Moorsoldaten written W. Langhoff-Esser - R.Goguel.they was arrested in the KZ Börgermoore. written and sung during the detention. thus I had at school learned it in 1986 in east germany.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Rain Dog
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 08:26 AM

Pauline, the Mary McPartland version is the only one I have heard. It made an impression on me the first time I heard it, as songs sometimes do, her delivery , the music and the lyrics. It intrigued me as I could not 'place' it so to speak.I think she makes a very good job of it


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Pauline L
Date: 29 Apr 05 - 01:33 AM

That is such a powerful song in all its incarnations. I learned it from a Paul Robeson recording. He used the English lyrics cited above by Dave. I can hardly imagine Mary McPartland singing it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Abby Sale
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 08:58 PM

Dave,

I think the most successful (and most sung) English version is pretty much as Pete Seeger does it. Some of the German verses just don't render in English well and writing completely new English ones just doesn't sit well either.

             Peat Bog Soldiers

1.        Wohin auch das Auge blicket,
        Moor und Heide nur ringsum.
        Vogelsang uns nicht erquicket,
        Eichen stehen kahl und krumm.

1.        Far and wide as the eye can wander,
        Heath and bog are everywhere.
        Not a bird sings out to cheer us,
        Oaks are standing gaunt and bare.

Chorus:
                We are the peatbog soldiers,
                Marching with our spades
                To the moor.

                Wir sind die Moorsoldaten,
                Und ziehen mit dem Spaten,
                Ins Moor.

5.        Up and down the guards are pacing.
        No one, no one can get through.
        Flight would mean a sure death facing,
        Guns and barbed wire greet our view.

6.        But for us there is no complaining,
        Winter will in time be past.
        One day we shall rise rejoicing,
        "Homeland" dear. your mine at last.

Chorus (twice, or more):
                Then will the peatbog soldiers
                March no more with their spades
                To the Moor.

                Dann ziehn die Moorsoldaten
                Nicht mehr mit dem Spaten
                Ins Moor!


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Franz S.
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:28 PM

Personal story: A teacher colleague of mine was married to a man somewhat older than her, a very private man who had grown up in Germany but never talked much about his life until he met my father. They swapped stories about sailing in the merchant marine during WWII and my friend told some stories about his youth. Nothing was explicit, but it became clear that he and my father also shared past membership in the Communist Party.

Not too long after that occasion my friend had a stroke. We went to visit. He was paralysed, couldn't talk, lying on the couch. His wife asked me to sing to him, so I sang (among other things) "Die Moorsoldaten".   He cried.   He died not long after. I will never know what that song really meant to him.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:20 PM

As a matter of curiosity, when singing this great song both in German and English, is it usual to sing German/English, verse by verse, or to do say German all the way through and then English?

It would seem better (to me) to sing the translation alternating with German verse by verse. Any thoughts?

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: nutty
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 12:16 PM

The History Site .. Holocaust Education HERE
gives this info on the song ---

Wolfgang Langhoff and Johann Esser wrote the lyrics [see Documents]. The music was composed by Rudi Goguel and was later adapted by Hanns Eisler and Ernst Busch. Langhoff, Eisler, and Busch were all active in the German Communist party.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Rain Dog
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 11:36 AM

I was listening to the CD The Holland Hankerchief by Mary McPartlan and she sings the song on that album. When I was listening to it I was trying to work out where the song was set. Plenty of peat bogs in Ireland but the barbed wire references threw me a bit. Thanks for clearing it up.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 28 Apr 05 - 10:29 AM

I have just returned from the 60th anniversary commemoration of the liberation of Buchenwald being a relative of an inmate who died there. Among the many events organised was a concert given by the local childrens' choir in Nordhausen. In the audience were survivors of Buchenwald, Dora , Erlich and Bergen Belsen from Poland, USSR as was, Hungary, Belgium and France. When the children started singing the Moorsoldaten, the survivors at once rose to their feet, soon followed by the rest of the audience. The survivors joined in the singing, hands on hearts. It was an extraordinary moment. It is important that the significance of that song to the camp inmates lives on.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 07:22 PM

Good to see you around again Abby its been a long time since the alt.rec days.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargole
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 06:32 PM

A Rough and INCOMPLETE - transcription form sections of the radio piece.

1933 in B…prison camp – by 1945 it had spread through the concentration camps and throughout the world. It is now considered to be one of the greatest of all anti-fascist songs.

The daily routine of a concentration camp was strict and difficult. Marching to and from forced labor, the inmates were forced to sing. From time to time the camp commander gave permission for 'cultural events' to build relationships between guards and the inmates. The "Peat Bog Soldiers" is the first and most famous song to be composed in the concentration camps of The Third Reich. A person by the name of…Wolfgan Langhoff. who later became the director of the German theatre in Berlin asked the minor works poet Esser – for lyrics that could be sung by all of the camps prisoners but would not be too controversial. Langhoff gave them to Goguel, who was a salesman – who had never composed a song before – but grewup in a music loving family)

INTERVIEW with GOGUEL "The song was not written spontaneously, it was written at a very specific moment, as a protest on the part of the resistance fighters against the oppressors." It was in response to a night-time attack on a barracks by the SS; it ended with a dozen or so slightly or seriously wounded prisoners. In response to this assault, we had the idea to organize a cultural program to demonstrate our higher moral value. I got the request from L….to write the melody for a poem….that another inmate Esser had given to him…. My comrades were able to fake an injury for me and bring me to the camp hospital – and there at night, I composed the music to accompany the lyrics. After I left the hospital I found 16 prisoners from an imprisoned men's choir, from Zollen to rehearse the song. They studied it secretly, in a bathroom, for the cultural evening…."

"We can talk about two versions, in addition to these, there are many others." Spanish Civil War and a melody from the Thirty Year War….(Examples of tune variations given at aprox 15:30) Esser recognized a worker's song tune – and put it at the beginning of the well published one, however, that version is not the original one that was written by Goguel in the camp. Years later Goguel heard the tune as the introduction to a radio program and found it went around the world. The original was banned in Germany but traveled from prison to prison . The other version stayed alive in public and was printed in 1935 – and was broadcast on Radio Moscow. Pete Seeger met Esser when Seeger was 14 years old and Seeger's recording is one of the best known– his recording was popular in the USSR. (Seeger clip given at approx) 22:30 – 25:30. Rock version approx 36:00.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


Click to play MIDI


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,rafflesbear
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 05:48 PM

personal favourite version by Swan Arcade the Bradford trio with Dave Brady the one-armed concertina player

had the great good fortune to catch them once at the coach house Farningham - Dave had such a powerful voice that unamplified he just opened his mouth and the whole club was filled with the rich northern textures of his voice - unforgettable

anyone know where he is now ?


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Abby Sale
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 05:39 PM

Ok, gargy...The show is well worth listening to. Thank you.

Seems to be much taken from the Langhoff book, though. (I'd like to know how & where he published it in 1935.) I also see that the "happy?" take is swiped from Len, above.

Seems the original "culture show" was August 1933. That would give all the prisoners time to learn the song by Sept 3rd as per Selbmann's account. (Ok, Selbmann reads like political fantasy but I do like the story.)

One thing seems clear about the tune - consciously or not, Goguel set the words to a tune from the Thirty Years' War (1618-48). No dis to him on that - he made no claim to being a musician and he found a damn fine tune for it.

I don't know that this actually proves the Langhoff/Esser/Goguel story - outside corroboration would be nice. But no one else claims it either. I'd accept it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 05:22 PM

Your's appears folk-lore .... I'll trust the eye-witness interviews....stranger still than fiction.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Abby Sale
Date: 05 Sep 04 - 11:24 AM

gargoyle:

Ok, ok. I'll listen to the program.   First I'll post the "happy?" file entry for it. That, because it's close (anyway) to facts and it reads nicely, if slightly unlikely. It's somewhat at odds with Susanne's quote of 30 years earlier. No matter. Also because the date given for the "performance" is Sept 3rd, making it a song for this week.

Then I'll listen and maybe change the file. Maybe won't change it. This is folklore, after all.


When the nazis came to power in Germany they immediately began arresting left-wing politicos and sympathizers. The first to be imprisoned in the new camps were communists and socialists. According to John McDonnell's Songs of Struggle and Protest: The song was written by an unnamed prisoner in the Börgermoor Camp near the Dutch frontier. Its German name "Die Moorsoldaten" first appeared in 1935 in a book of the same name written by Wolfgang Langhoss.

Fritz Selbmann in "Neue Deutschland" April 17, 1965 wrote: "On the 3rd of September 1941, 70 prisoners lie in the bunks of a barrack room in a German concentration camp. They hear the shots outside, 465 on this particular night, and every shot kills a comrade, a brother, a communist. Every shot bores into their own hearts. they lie awake counting the shots, clenching their fists, trying not to cry out. Then something beautiful and terrible happens . . . in the farthest corner of the room a comrade begins to hum softly. The song is the "Peat-bog Soldiers." Slowly, one by one, the others take up the tune and by the fourth line, 70 prisoners, all political, almost all communists, are singing this hymn of defiance."


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:58 PM

Problems - try http://www.prx.org/piece/1156

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:55 PM

In the 10:00 to 11:45 segment of this 38 minute piece you will hear first hand about how Langhoff, Esser, and Goguel were all integrally involved and what event sparked its creation - I won't ruin it - you MUST listen to the interviews.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: belfast
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:54 PM

I once had an EP (remember them?) of the Ian Campbell Folk Group, the Topic label I think. As well as the Peat Bog Soldiers there was The Boys of Wexford and Viva la Quince Brigada (no, not the Christy Moore version). I'm couldn't be sure but I suspect that this is where the Dubliners (courtesy of Luke Kelly) may have got it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:31 PM

FOLKS if you REALLY want to learn about this song, its melody and lyrics you MUST listen to the above link. Register it is free. AND OUTSTANDING in CONTENT. And the article is still there to listen to:



BTW



"Arndt Peltner was appointed recently to the German Order of Merit for his work with Radio Goethe. In his explanation about the appointment, Bernd Westphal, the German General Consul in San Francisco, said that Radio Goethe promotes an interest in Germany among young people in the US. He promotes friendship between the young people of Germany and the US. Arndt Peltner has been able to achieve something that is very difficult for government; he has reached the hearts and minds of young people through his work. "


Arndt Peltner produced the radio interviews
about the Moorsoldaten or Peat Bog Soldiers



Sincerely,

Gargoyle



You can lead to water .... but they won't be baptised.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 02:15 PM

Notation at the base of my sheet music and then books' commentary:

Words by Wolfgan Langhoff and Esser;
Last verse by Theodore Bikel.
Music by Rudi Goguel.
Copyright 1965 by Stormking Music Inc.
All rights reserved. Used by permission.

Peat Bog Soldiers choise of Theodore Bikel.
Something to Sing About - The Personal Choices of America's Folk sings Collected and Arranged by Milton Okun, p. 103-106.

"....Bikel speaks and sings in more languages than most of us could readily identify. He is expecially adept i the language and folklor of Eastern Europe and Israel, reflected his own itinerant youth from Vienna to the Middle East. If there is a better interpreter of Russian Gypsy music about than Theo, let him step forward with his balalaika. If there is a performer more steeped in the songs of the Eastern European Jewish ghettos, let him speak. And if there is a more articulated and forthright singer of the bold new fulk music of Israel than Theo, may my left hand wither, or some less frightening Biblical injuction....."

Bikel's added verse:

Then will the peat bog soldier
March no more with their spaded to the bog.
Then will the peat bog soldiers
March no more with their spades to the bog.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 08:34 AM

BB, as far as I know the melody by Goguel is no longer used or at any rate was heavily modified by Hanns Eisler after the war, but Goguel's name has been kept out of respect. Langhoff and Esser are the 'official' authors but if you have a look at the extract from Langhoff's book cited above you'll realise that it isn't easy to determine 'real' authorship. I've wondered whether the man he 'commissioned' to write the first lyrics was, in fact, Esser, but I can't find out from the book. Maybe I missed something.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: BB
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:15 PM

I've just been trying to find out the author(s) of 'The Peatbog Soldiers' - and found this thread, which didn't help. Thought others might be interested in the info. I've just found on the web, which says that it was written in 1933 by Johann Esser and Wolfgang Langhoff with melody by Rudi Goguel. Can't find out who translated it into English though.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:53 PM

For a perspective from the FRENCH point of view "Song of the Marshs" try

http://www.fndirp.asso.fr/chantdesmarais.htm

Run it through google for a translation.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:25 PM

Listening to this entire radio program (interviews the writers, the history, Segar, citizens) - should put to rest all future inquiries about the song's origins.)

This is radio-feature journalism at its VERY BEST!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:06 PM

Registration at this site is free -

It has an award-winning Radio Goethe Magazine audio narrative of 38 minutes - good clear connection - no static. (But perhaps a little overdone with the tag-line The most important anti-fascist and protest song of the 20th century

http://www.prx.org/preview.do?id=1156

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: mack/misophist
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:56 AM

Thanks to all of you. I had the mistaken notion that it was written by German prisoners of the fascists during the Spanish Civil War. The truth is always better.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 10:01 AM

Frank: "...to keep someone else from cashing in on a song he considers to be public domain."

I think it was (perhaps 'is'?) common practice Folks claim copyright so others don't - and also try to claim they wrote it.


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:51 AM

"but Pete has somewhat of a reputation of asigning copyrights for political reasons and to keep someone else from cashing in on a song he considers to be public domain."

This is not fair. He fought to have Solomon Linder for the copyright on Wimoweh. He has never to my knowledge tried to keep anyone from cashing in on anything. Pete has been scrupulous in his making sure that the right authors/composers receive their due. I speak from personal experience with Pete.



Frank


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Subject: RE: Help: Peat Bog Soldiers
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 05:49 AM

The usual English version loses the rhyme of soldier with spade.
The translation given in Wolfgang's link relaces it with battallion and stallion. Can anyone come up with a better alternative?
Keith.


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