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BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...

Greg F. 22 Sep 11 - 10:18 AM
Bobert 22 Sep 11 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,999 22 Sep 11 - 02:56 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 22 Sep 11 - 01:28 AM
GUEST,999 22 Sep 11 - 12:33 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 21 Sep 11 - 11:35 PM
Bobert 21 Sep 11 - 07:53 PM
Don Firth 21 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM
Bobert 21 Sep 11 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,999 21 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM
Don Firth 21 Sep 11 - 02:29 PM
Bobert 21 Sep 11 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,999 21 Sep 11 - 05:59 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 21 Sep 11 - 02:41 AM
Don Firth 21 Sep 11 - 02:19 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 21 Sep 11 - 01:37 AM
GUEST,999 21 Sep 11 - 01:16 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 21 Sep 11 - 12:46 AM
Bobert 20 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM
Don Firth 20 Sep 11 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Sep 11 - 03:37 PM
Don Firth 20 Sep 11 - 01:41 PM
Bobert 20 Sep 11 - 08:58 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Sep 11 - 03:47 AM
Bobert 18 Sep 11 - 08:03 PM
Stringsinger 18 Sep 11 - 05:41 PM
Don Firth 18 Sep 11 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 18 Sep 11 - 02:13 PM
Bobert 18 Sep 11 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 18 Sep 11 - 12:16 AM
Bobert 17 Sep 11 - 05:52 PM
Bobert 17 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM
Stringsinger 17 Sep 11 - 02:37 PM
Bobert 17 Sep 11 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,999 17 Sep 11 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Sep 11 - 11:35 AM
GUEST,999 17 Sep 11 - 11:12 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Sep 11 - 10:08 AM
GUEST,999 17 Sep 11 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,999 17 Sep 11 - 09:48 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 17 Sep 11 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,999 17 Sep 11 - 08:44 AM
Don Firth 17 Sep 11 - 12:07 AM
GUEST 16 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM
Bobert 16 Sep 11 - 11:16 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Sep 11 - 11:01 PM
Bobert 16 Sep 11 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Sep 11 - 08:36 PM
Bobert 16 Sep 11 - 08:19 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 16 Sep 11 - 08:08 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 10:18 AM

Tricky Dick's "secret plan" was to scam the electorate - & it worked a treat.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 08:57 AM

What the hell is going on here??? A Herbert Humphrey love-fest, or what???

Actually, brucie... LBJ stuck it to Humphrey just 3 weeks before the election... If you recall, Humphrey had stated that if he became president that he would stop the bombing of North Vietnam... Nixon, on the other hand, ran on his "secret plan" to end the war... Humphrey's position was clearer and in an election so close might have gotten him elected but...

...LBJ announced that he was ordering the bombing to be stopped right around the middle of October... That took the wind out of Humphrey's sails and he never recovered...

BTW, it turned out that Nixon didn't have any "secret plan" as the war went on another 6 years...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 02:56 AM

The line I quoted is from HHH.

The line you wrote is beautiful. Congratulations.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 01:28 AM

Guest,999: ""Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism."

I don't know where you got that quote, but I got one for you, from a screenplay I had written(along with the musical score, and soundtrack),
Now, think this through......."When loving comes to giving, some people stop at nothing."

Regards!
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Sep 11 - 12:33 AM

Thank you, GfS, that was kind of you to say.

One point I wish to make with both you and Bobert is this: HHH deserved not to be elected because he had shilled for Johnson, and that just wasn't right. However, until then he had been an exemplary member of Congress and a man even his enemies were proud to know. I do not know what caused the change in him and I suppose that will be one of this life's little mysteries for me.

"The moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in shadows of life, the sick, the needy, and the handicapped."

Indeed, his early life was hard, and the 1920s and 1930s were unkind to his family. From that era he developed a real compassion for people, a compassion I feel he never left behind. One has but to read his work on behalf of education, civil rights and labour to know that he was a giant in his time, perhaps too much of one.

"Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism."

That statement alone should be enough to marginalize the Bachmanns and Palins of this world.

I would recommend the Wikipedia article about HHH in lieu of reading more deeply about him. I admire him very much for his courage and so many great ideas he pushed forth in Washington. The following from the Wikipedia article speaks more eloquently about his integrity than a million platitudes.

"In 1934 Hubert began dating Muriel Buck; she was a bookkeeper and graduate of local Huron College. They were married in 1936 and remained married until Humphrey's death nearly 42 years later. They had four children: Hubert Humphrey III, Nancy, Robert, and Douglas. Unlike many prominent politicians Humphrey never became wealthy, and through most of his years as a U.S. Senator and Vice President, he lived in a modest middle-class housing development in Chevy Chase, Maryland. In 1958, Hubert and Muriel used their savings to build a lakefront home in Waverly, Minnesota, about forty miles west of Minneapolis."

I think it is easy to forget the good people have done, and he did more good than most, imo. I wish we had more people like him in government today.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 11:35 PM

Thank you, 999, good post...Informative too.

Don, You didn't hit a nerve, it was just plain stupid, that's all...and if you didn't know, or can't remember about McNamara, and the draft, and who got shoved to the top of the list, and why..then you really know less than you try to impress people with. It was/is a lame post....and I'll let it go at that.

Bobert, I'd be ashamed if I were knocking on doors for HHH, too...but all things considering, (Nixon vs. Humphrey), I guess you get a pass....THIS TIME!

Gawd, don't you just 'love' it when all we get to vote for is the choice of two weirdos?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 07:53 PM

I hate to admit it but after Kennedy was assassinated I felt so invested to defeating Nixon that I knocked on doors for HHH...

Oh, the shame...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

I was watching with a great deal of interest back then. I tended to favor Bobby Kennedy, but I was scanning the other candidates as well. I liked where McCarthy was coming from, but I got turned off a bit by some of his side-remarks about Kennedy. That all ended, of course, on June 5th, 1968 in the kitchen of the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles. Come election time, I voted for Hubert Humphrey as pale alternative to those who had gone before, keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that he would win over Nixon, intending to keep them crossed if he, indeed, won. But—

Nixon made my scalp crawl from the first time I set eyes on him. Anybody recall the John F. Kennedy-Nixon debates on television in 1960? I had him spotted as a weasel back then.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:19 PM

Yup... The '68 election was a disaster all the way around... From McCarthy to Kennedy to Chicago to Humphrey (yuck) to Nixon to more and more and more Vietnam war...

The sex, drugs and rock 'n roll was good, however...

B~


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Subject: Lyr Add: KILROY (poem by Eugene McCarthy)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

Bankley got me a McCarthy button--the white lettering on blue background--when he was in Georgia a few years back. I'll tell ya Bobster, nostalgia ain't what it used to be, but then neither is apple pie.

I was also aware you'd worked for Gene. I liked it when his 'Kilroy' appeared in high school English texts.

"Few now remember that Gene McCarthy was the first US House member to debate Republican anticommunist icon Sen. Joe McCarthy head-to-head, the first Congressman to call for Congressional oversight of the CIA, the first to introduce the Equal Rights Amendment in the Senate, and the first to lead a Senate subcommittee on remedying hunger in America." (that info from the Daily Kos)


KILROY
by Eugene J. McCarthy

Kilroy is gone,
the word is out,
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

Kilroy
who wrote his name
in every can
from Poland to Japan
and places in between
like Sheboygan and Racine
is gone
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

Kilroy
who kept the dice
and stole the ice
out of the BOQ

Kilroy
whose name was good
on every IOU
in World War II
and even in Korea
is gone
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

Kilroy
the unknown soldier
who was the first to land
the last to leave,
with his own hand
has taken his good name
from all the walls
and toilet stalls.

Kilroy
whose name around the world
was like the flag unfurled
has run it down
and left Saigon
and the Mekong
without a hero or a song
and gone
absent without leave
from Vietnam.

--from Eugene J. McCarthy, Selected Poems, (Rochester MN: Lone Oak Press) 1997 [ISBN 1-883477-15-8]


America missed electing a president who, in my opinion, would have changed the course of the last fifty years of history. His death in 2005 saddened me greatly, because we just ain't got enough people, elected people, like him. To me, that is the real tragedy of 1968.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:29 PM

Hey, GfS, that was a pretty good hissy-fit there!

That's a clear tip-off that I really hit a nerve! And you call MY post "stupid!"

I never smoked pot or took any other illegal drugs. And I didn't have to chase girls in bars. They chased me.

Been thinking about your ideal ticket, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul. How does THIS grab you?

Mother Teresa and Attila the Hun.

(Makes about as much sense as yours.)

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 09:09 AM

My exact thinking, Don, as I read GfinS's post... "No, the peace movement co-opted the Democratic Party"...

Like you, brucie, I worked in the McCarthy campaign but had just read Bobby Kennedy's book "Seeking a New World" (or something like that) and was very impressed with him and confess to be one of those who bolted to the Kennedy campaign... Sorry... Yeah, 'caused a few riffs with some of my friends but we all got over them...

But I kept my McCarthy decal (remember those big flowers) on the back of VW along with my Kennedy sticker...

Now back to the Tea Party and GfinS's MythTeaology... One thing is for sure and that is where ever Lyndon LaRouche is (Sweden???) he's smiling ear to ear...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:59 AM

I'm just a tad biased when it comes to McCarthy. I wrote his campaign song and worked on his behalf from the primaries on. I think RFK understood the issues, but I think McCarthy 'meant' it. The voting records of both Humphrey and McCarthy with regard to civil rights were very good--exceptional, in fact. That particular set of primaries and the end result in Chicago, 1968, were the end of both belief in the so-called democratic process in the US and and belief by many that voting could ever change anything for the better. Of course, the war dragged on for five more years. Nixon, while good in terms of his China policy, was a devious sonuvabitch, and his eventual resignation--read resign or be impeached--left a seriously bad taste in the mouths of Democrats, Republicans and voters of both persuasions. At the least, it caused people to question the Electoral College, and people still question its usefulness today.

I would point out that while opposition to the war had got many 'folkies' involved, the reality is that less than 5% of American people were involved in antiwar protest. It wasn't until the body bags started being returned to small town America that the tide of opposition to the war grew.

I think the nail in the peace platform really happened after the murder of Martin Luther King because so many lost all faith in America as a land of the free. People of colour had a man who was not afraid to stand up, and people saw what happened to people who stood up.

Today, those who voice opposition to 'the machine' face a similar fate although it's not bullets now, it's economic strangulation. The difference in manner of death is purely cosmetic.

That's my take on it, anyway, GfS. Thank you for asking.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:41 AM

like I said, earlier, "'Turn on' a lame, and what you get is a 'turned on' lame!"

Your post was so stupid, that I think you were just grasping at straws, just to bitch and moan.
....and speaking of Your sense of history, you must have been chasing down chicks in bars.....but that's another story.....

GfS

Hey, let it go. You're trying to 'reach' too deep, and you just don't have the tools..OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 02:19 AM

GfS, after you call Lyndon B. Johnson a "piece of shit" (Mark Twain would turn green with envy at your sensitively insightful political critiques) and beef about how McNamara drafted all the pot-heads and demonstrators (I didn't know it was McNamara who had that power), and the fact that you used the word "us," not "you," in relation to all this—plus the fact that your style of verbal expression (rambling and often incoherent) is very much like that of an acquaintance of mine who, during the Sixties, fried his brain with incessant use of pot when he wasn't experimenting with more exotic stuff—

Now I no longer need to wonder about the source of your screwed up view of the history AND your bewilderment over the current political climate.

And then you go on to say just above:

"The peace movement of the '60's was co-opted by the Democratic Party.
Johnson was a Democrat.
Johnson escalated the war.
As the war grew more unpopular, the Democrats, in order to gain a base, co-opted the peace movement.
"

What the hell planet were you living on back in the Sixties, GfS? Whichever one it was, it's pretty obvious that you must have been perpetually stoned.

If anything, the peace movement co-opted the Democratic Party!

But that was then. THIS IS NOW!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 01:37 AM

Ok....I can buy that.
I was working off the fact that JFK did not want to get more involved in S.E. Asia, and RFK would be closer to knowing the 'ins and outs' of why.

So, do you think that McCarthy was exploiting the peace movement to expand his base? or do/did think he was genuine?

From the impression I got back then, I thought his base was more confident in him, than he came across.

Curious to get your input/feedback.

Regards,
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 01:16 AM

"RFK was, I believe genuine."

I don't agree GfS. (I agree you believe that, but not that he was genuine.) He didn't enter the race until McCarthy showed that just maybe a peace ticket might fly.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 12:46 AM

I just re-read it....I don't even know how you contrived how you got whatever you got, out of what I said...BUT...its not the first time!
So, I'll say what I was saying in real simple terms, because you seem to have difficulties with understanding what some one ELSE says. The peace movement of the '60's was co-opted by the Democratic Party.
Johnson was a Democrat.
Johnson escalated the war.
As the war grew more unpopular, the Democrats, in order to gain a base, co-opted the peace movement.
RFK was, I believe genuine.
McGovern was weak.
See Dick run.
See hung over wannabe folk singers, whose heyday was in the '60's still don't get it.
See wannabe political activists, don't understand why people are not interested in their music.

What don't you get???
Never mind...I can't believe I've spent so much time on you two over bullshit partisan politics...I just thought you were into music more that trying to be included into the numbers of the tragically 'hip'.

...but even back then, we had an expression, which holds true today... "'Turn on' a lame, and what you get is a 'turned on' lame".

No wonder.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

And your point is what, GfinS???

You need to quit the LaRouche meds...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 04:52 PM

It's all up there for anybody to read, GfS. Go ahead and wriggle like a snake all you want, it's not going to delete what anybody can read for themselves.

Have a nice day.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:37 PM

Bobert: "The neo-cons were perfectly happy to borrow money to invade Iraq... In the 5 years after the invasion not one ever mentioned that we should have, ahhhhhh, increased revenues to pay for them..."

Actually, it was an unfunded war...I'm surprised you, a frothing Democrat didn't know that..its a Democrat/Progressive talking point.(True story).

Don Firth: "What I was pointing out to you, GfS, is that EVEN IN THE SIXTIES, not every singer of folk songs was into politics or singing political songs. We were not all dope-sodden leftist hippies as you're trying to claim."

And there YOU go AGAIN...I never said that..so, if you want to debate the arguments posed by a couple of the voices in your head, go right ahead....just don't attribute what the voices are saying, as if they are coming from me.

Jeez....some people are just plain redundant, in their psychosis !

You get into more shit doing that, why don't you just knock it off?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 01:41 PM

What I was pointing out to you, GfS, is that EVEN IN THE SIXTIES, not every singer of folk songs was into politics or singing political songs. We were not all dope-sodden leftist hippies as you're trying to claim.

Ye gods, learn to READ!

(And copying someone else's web page is the best you can do? That "message from Queen Elizabeth II" is all over the internet. Well, at least it was well-written and correctly punctuated. That's how I knew it wasn't you.)

By the way:   President Obama is now coming on like Gang Busters in the matter of making the wealthy and the corporations pay their fair share. Apparently he got the message that the Right Wing will not agree to anything he asks for, come hell or high water, no matter how good it is for the country. So it's get tough time. He says he'll veto any bill that does not contain a tax increase for the wealthy.

That's more like it!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 08:58 AM

The neo-cons were perfectly happy to borrow money to invade Iraq... In the 5 years after the invasion not one ever mentioned that we should have, ahhhhhh, increased revenues to pay for them... Not a peep out of them.... So much for fiscal conservatism... They are just using that now as a means to try to get back the White House so they can go back to Reaganomics on crack...

No thanks... Nothing fiscally conservative about trickle down, voodoo, suppply side economics... Nothing... It is a failed economic model... It had it's time and it failed the Final Exam in the Fall of '08...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 03:47 AM

There you go again!.....I said during the '60's. Jeez, if you want to go back far enough, check the date on "House Carpenter" ..some people have it going back 400 years!...(some don't, so don't get thy knickers in a twist)


And then there is this message from the Queen:


To the citizens of the United States of America from Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

In light of your immediate failure to financially manage yourselves and also in recent years your tendency to elect incompetent Presidents of the USA and therefore not able to govern yourselves, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective immediately. (You should look up 'revocation' in the Oxford English Dictionary.)

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths, and territories (except Kansas , which she does not fancy).

Your new Prime Minister, David Cameron, will appoint a Governor for America without the need for further elections.
Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated sometime next year to determine whether any of you noticed.
To aid in the transition to a British Crown dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:
1. The letter 'U' will be reinstated in words such as 'colour,' 'favour,' 'labour' and 'neighbour.' Likewise, you will learn to spell 'doughnut' without skipping half the letters, and the suffix '-ize' will be replaced by the suffix '-ise.' Generally, you will be expected to raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. (look up 'vocabulary').
------------------------
2. Using the same twenty-seven words interspersed with filler noises such as ''like' and 'you know' is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. There is no such thing as U.S. English. We will let Microsoft know on your behalf. The Microsoft spell-checker will be adjusted to take into account the reinstated letter 'u'' and the elimination of '-ize.'
-------------------
3. July 4th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.
-----------------
4. You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers, or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not quite ready to be independent. Guns should only be used for shooting grouse. If you can't sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist, then you're not ready to shoot grouse.
----------------------
5. Therefore, you will no longer be allowed to own or carry anything more dangerous than a vegetable peeler. Although a permit will be required if you wish to carry a vegetable peeler in public.
----------------------
6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.   Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of humour.
--------------------
7. The former USA will adopt UK prices on petrol (which you have been calling gasoline) of roughly $10/US gallon. Get used to it.
-------------------
8. You will learn to make real chips. Those things you call French fries are not real chips, and those things you insist on calling potato chips are properly called crisps. Real chips are thick cut, fried in animal fat, and dressed not with catsup but with vinegar.
-------------------
9. The cold, tasteless stuff you insist on calling beer is not actually beer at all. Henceforth, only proper British Bitter will be referred to as beer, and European brews of known and accepted provenance will be referred to as Lager. New Zealand beer is also acceptable, as New Zealand is pound for pound the greatest sporting nation on earth and it can only be due to the beer. They are also part of the British Commonwealth - see what it did for them. American brands will be referred to as Near-Frozen Gnat's Urine, so that all can be sold without risk of further confusion.
---------------------
10. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as good guys. Hollywood will also be required to cast English actors to play English characters. Watching Andie Macdowell attempt English dialogue in Four Weddings and a Funeral was an experience akin to having one's ears removed with a cheese grater.
---------------------
11. You will cease playing American football. There are only two kinds of proper football; one you call soccer, and rugby (dominated by the New Zealanders). Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which has some similarities to American football, but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like a bunch of nancies).
---------------------
12. Further, you will stop playing baseball. It is not reasonable to host an event called the World Series for a game which is not played outside of America . Since only 2.1% of you are aware there is a world beyond your borders, your error is understandable. You will learn cricket, and we will let you face the Australians (World dominators) first to take the sting out of their deliveries.
--------------------
13. You must tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us mad.
-----------------
14. An internal revenue agent (i.e. tax collector) from Her Majesty's Government will be with you shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1776).
---------------
15. Daily Tea Time begins promptly at 4 p.m. with proper cups, with saucers, and never mugs, with high quality biscuits (cookies) and cakes; plus strawberries (with cream) when in season.



God Save the Queen!



PS: Only share this with friends who have a good sense of humour (NOT humor)!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 08:03 PM

Thanks, Don and Strings, for those most informative posts... Little after my time so it's nice to get into some stuff of which I was (and am) not aware...

I did know that Pete was investigated for being a "commie" but that is probably all I know of those times as it applies to folk music...

We all agree, however, that the Tea Party is no more a grassroots organization than Exxon or Blackwater...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 05:41 PM

Thanks, Don. Yes, we were there when others were not born yet.

It's important that we get the history out there before it gets co-opted and "corrected".
It was the CPUSA not the Democratic Party, that was behind a lot of folk music although in many labor circles, they were dancing to Benny Goodman. Nobody thought anything of Woody's "This Land Is Your Land".

Phil Och's "Small Circle of Friends" applies here.

The CPUSA was naive and had no real idea what "Uncle Joe" was up to. They would have been horrified if they knew. But the songs pre-dated the entry of Earl Browder and the CPUSA.

Bob Miller wrote his "Seven Cent Cotton early. Harry "Haywire Mac" McClintock was singing Wobbly songs and social issued songs before Burl Ives and Josh White. BTW, Josh, Burl and Tom Glazer were the "Union Boys".

Ronald Cohen and Dave Samuels have an excellent set of CD's showing the evolution of the political protest folk songs. I think it can be ordered through University of Indiana where Ron is a history professor. I think the CD is called "Broadside" but someone else may be able to fill in better details.

I remember getting copies of the "Hobo News" which dealt with songs about working conditions and labor though mostly about not working and labor.

The protest song goes back to the 15 century by the rise of the farmer's rebellion in Germany against Martin Luther in a song called "Die Gedanken Sind Frei" (My thoughts are free) with an excellent english text by Arthur S. Kevess. Check Pete Seeger's recording of it.

If you want to know the history of the early days and background for the rise of the folk music revival you gotta' read this book.....if you can find it.

Denning, Michael. The Cultural Front: The Laboring American Culture in the Twentieth Century. London: Verso, 2007.

The Tea Party only wishes it could have been half as effective as The Popular Front.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 03:35 PM

The Democratic Party "co-opted" the folk music revival? When and how did they go about that, GfS? I was there. I don't remember that. In fact, I don't think the Democratic Party even thought about the folk music movement (except possibly decades earlier when the IWW was active, especially out here on the West Coast), if they were even aware that there was much of anything going on in that area until Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, and others started writing and singing protest songs. But a lot of people were there, singing folk songs and ballads long, long before Bob Dylan came along—and all the other people you mentioned, with the exception of Woody Guthrie (and you completely missed the Almanac Singers, who also predated the period you're talking about).

Then, of course, there was the House Un-American Activities Committee, that REALLY drew attention to the burgeoning interest in folk music when they tried (unsuccessfully) to stomp Pete Seeger into the ground. Contrary to their intention to shut him up, they succeeded in drawing attention to him and to the protest songs that some were writing and singing.

Most of the people I knew kept their music and their politics in separate boxes. I, for one, regarded most protest or political songs to be something like what might be called "poster art." I thought that, aesthetically, it tended to be a bit cheesy. I rarely sang "cause" songs, limiting my small repertoire of such material to peace songs, and then usually only on request. There was only a small percentage of the people I knew who were primarily involved in protest songs.

So your characterization of all of us who don't buy what you're trying to sell as being "brainwashed" into accept everything the "establishment" wants us to accept, just doesn't mesh with reality, especially when you seem to think the establishment consists of the Democratic Party, while the Tea Party is a new and fresh breeze blowing in the land.

You might go back and read Stringsinger's post at 17 Sep 11 - 02:37 p.m. He was there also and he knows what was going on, even better than I do.

I happened to come across a thread that was running a few months back, entitled "practice, practice, practice." There, you actually showed that you can occasionally write a complete sentence that expresses a cohesive thought, and that you may have actually had a grasp of what the subject was, and you did it without sounding like you got your material by stirring the septic tank.

You've told me a number of times (liberally sprinkling your comments with insults and general toilet-mouthed verbiage) that I should stick to music and leave politics alone. Well, considering your grasp of history, political principles, and current events, I would say that it might be a good idea for you to follow your own advice.

Don Firth

P. S:   By the way, referring to your scatalogical reference to LBJ:   He is not the one who started the Viet Nam war, as you claim (any more that FDR started WWII to end the Depression, as the Right Wing tries to claim). One of the things LBJ DID do was to sign the Civil Rights bill into law.

But then, you're not all that hot on some people having civil rights, are you.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 02:13 PM

Bobert: "...I'll have a CD of the workshop I did in DC last week and, if so, I'll do my best to share some of it here... Even if it means having to get some technical help in doing so..."

Anything I can do to help!

...and, like I said before, ALL the parties have a bit of truth in them, and also some bullshit...so if someone says, something, or reveals some part of that truth, from 'another' party, it doesn't mean, that person BELONGS to the other party!...but like I've said, repeatedly, and just quoted back to me, "Even a broken clock is right twice a day."....and really, all this political noise, is just that: Noise!..
"The voice of deception has uneven rhythms,
Just listen to the man who's afraid,
The man who's afraid, will have all sorts of answers,
To the problems inside his own head.
The threat from the 'outside',
is now, and forever alive..."
                              Paul 'Biff' Rose~1969.


Something to ponder.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 11:47 AM

Problem is, GfinS, that we keep reading Tea Party talking points from you... You might not "belong" to the Tea Party but you certainly are parroting their propaganda...

Back to music... Yeah, it's a gift and I do enjoy sharing that gift with other for the shear humanity of sharing... BTW, I think that I'll have a CD of the workshop I did in DC last week and, if so, I'll do my best to share some of it here... Even if it means having to get some technical help in doing so...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Sep 11 - 12:16 AM

Yeah, EVERYBODY thinks that theirs ISN'T grassroots!...and they ALL are right, about everybody else, as well!..Which is why I've been on your shit so much. None of them are dialed in, nor what they appear to be!
.......another cool thing about music, and those who have the 'gift'; Why hand it over to the phonies and their cronies??..More focus on the 'gift' and what you can do with it, and who you give it to...and to what end!
I have to echo,999's thought...politics is bullshit...everybody is trying to fuck over somebody, and make 'their' people smile about it as they do it!..Shit...you want to make people 'weep'?....cause them to do it because of the beauty they experience, (music included!) instead of the result of some one's will over the other!!

999, I haven't heard if the e-mail worked yet(he hasn't gotten back, yet).

...and Bobert, not everyone who you don't agree with, is of another 'enemy' party!...I have NO party affiliation...but I do find bits of truth in all of them...along with bullshit spin too..the trick is to separate it....but even better yet, is just focus in on what is true!
That way somebody is ALWAYS going to disagree, and give you shit you!!

Waving!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 05:52 PM

Correction: "1930s..."

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM

Yup, Strings...

No grassroots in the Tea Party...

Bought and paid for by some of the richest and most powerful corporatists in out country...

BTW, those were the people who also supported Hitler's rise in the 1030s...

History does repeat itself...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 02:37 PM

Those of you who acknowledge an understanding of how we got here in folk music need to be aware of the history of why there is a Mudcat. In the late 1930's, the IWW introduced parodies to popular songs by Joe Hill and others in the Little Red Songbook. Through the the 30's and 40's, the Popular Front became a reaction to the Oligarchy that we see today and was supported sometimes not willingly by the Roosevelt Administration. During this time, the Left-wing movement encouraged and popularized the folk song revival by an adherence to the ideology of the worker, common man (woman), and thus "people's" music. The leaders of this folk movement are responsible for what we refer to as folk music today and much of it was politically inspired and based on that. Folklorists emanated from that period and their work was encouraged through that time. This is fact, historically, because prior to this time, not many were really interested in folk music, an archaic scalp-collecting pursuit by academics. John Lomax pioneered an interest through influencing Kittredge at Harvard to consider the literary merits of cowboy songs but the real pioneering came later when his son Alan became a P.R. spokesperson for the ideological value of folk music combining his anthropology and ethnomusicology with leftist politics. The torch was taken up by Pete Seeger and the two introduced Woody Guthrie to the urban communities in leftist New York, Chicago and L.A. Thus, politics played an important role in the folk revival of the sixties, historically. Carl Sandburg may have been the one to introduce the term "folk music" or "folk singer" in regard to American music, the premiere performer of these songs in his lectures and poetry readings. Sandburg was a leftie and celebrated "The People Yes". I find it necessary to remind people of where the folk music revival came from.

The Tea Party's ideology is manufactured populism combined with religious fundamentalism and they have no songs of merit. It's not a real movement but only being sold on corporate media outlets. Their music is warmed over pseudo-patriotic "Battle Hymn of the Republic" type songs and Irving Berlin's "God Bless America" (Berlin would have probably thrown up at the use of it today). Toby Keith and Lee Greenwood have not been as prolific as the music of the Popular Front and from the labor movement.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 02:27 PM

I want to hear some of it, too...

I mean, why not just do a blue clicky thru a mutual friend so everyone can hear some of it??? That would be easier... The rest of us are transparent so it's easier for us but a blue clicky would be nice... I know you like new agie kinda stuff but really have no idea what you you write...

I do know that you once made a snide comment about me not being able to read music so I assume that you score everything just like my wife does..

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 01:53 PM

No problem, GfS. We'll figure something out.

Politics is a buncha BS anyway. Music is a different thing. I believe we have a mutual friend on Mudcat. Perhaps we could do it through him.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 11:35 AM

Me too!!
I checked my e-mail, and so far I haven't got word, whether he got it. I don't have your e-mail address, and thought you might not want to post it on here, being as you, as well as myself, are just a 'guest'. But, as soon as I hear back, to see if it fit, and he could open it, we might be able to work something out!
Regards!
GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 11:12 AM

Great news about the sound track for a film. I truly hope it comes through for you. (And the bucks, too.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 10:08 AM

I just tried sending some stuff via e-mail, and when I find out if it got there, I'll let you know. The reason I haven't posted a lot of it before, was because we were in negotiations with a film company (unnamed), for a soundtrack, and had limitations on where I could expose it.
I WILL get back to you!..I'm just waiting to see if the e-mail could handle it.
Thanks for inquiring.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 09:59 AM

Forget I said that. I misread.

I would like to hear YOUR music.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 09:48 AM

Either or both.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 09:42 AM

999, My music, or the music I've posted?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 08:44 AM

GfS: Where are there links to your music?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 12:07 AM

GfS is obviously obsessed with feces. Impossible to have a rational discussion with those who have this kind of fixation.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM

What filosafurs.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:16 PM

I hope you get over Teashititis...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 11:01 PM

You and your fucking Democratic shit!..You have Dummocratic Diarrhea!
I sincerely hope you get over it!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:48 PM

Lots... If you bothered to notice... But that ain't you...

Stick with music...

B~

p.s. Hey, it ain't the Dems that have created the current mess... No matter how you try to spin it...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:36 PM

Jeez you're a one tracked Democratic robot. Ever had an original thought?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:19 PM

Parrot or cracker, G-ze???

No, I don't have a parrot... If I want one then all I have to do is tune in here and read the latest delusional Myth-Teaolgy but, hey, like LaRouche, you do make it interesting... Seriously... You, of all people, should Google up some of his speeches... Completely delusional but very, very entertaining...

BTW, did the Dems attack the World Trade Center, too???

LOL...

B;~)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Sep 11 - 08:08 PM

Polly want a cracker?..Bobert's got one....

GfS


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