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BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...

Bobert 08 Sep 11 - 08:25 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 08 Sep 11 - 11:41 PM
GUEST 09 Sep 11 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Sep 11 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 09 Sep 11 - 11:34 PM
Don Firth 10 Sep 11 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Sep 11 - 10:36 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Sep 11 - 10:38 PM
Don Firth 10 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 10 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM
Don Firth 11 Sep 11 - 12:01 AM
Joe Offer 11 Sep 11 - 12:57 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM
GUEST 12 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 11 - 01:31 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 11 - 01:41 AM
GUEST,999 12 Sep 11 - 10:00 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 11 - 12:21 PM
Stringsinger 12 Sep 11 - 01:09 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 11 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 11 - 08:55 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 11 - 09:01 PM
Bobert 12 Sep 11 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 12 Sep 11 - 11:21 PM
Don Firth 12 Sep 11 - 11:28 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Sep 11 - 12:04 AM
Don Firth 13 Sep 11 - 12:19 AM
Bobert 13 Sep 11 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Sep 11 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,999 13 Sep 11 - 01:47 PM
TIA 13 Sep 11 - 03:10 PM
Don Firth 13 Sep 11 - 03:19 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,999 13 Sep 11 - 03:41 PM
Bobert 13 Sep 11 - 03:45 PM
GUEST,999 13 Sep 11 - 04:02 PM
GUEST,999 13 Sep 11 - 04:03 PM
Don Firth 13 Sep 11 - 04:36 PM
GUEST,999 13 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM
Don Firth 13 Sep 11 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 13 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 07:32 PM
GUEST,999 13 Sep 11 - 07:38 PM
Bobert 13 Sep 11 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,TIA 13 Sep 11 - 10:24 PM
Bobert 13 Sep 11 - 10:37 PM
GUEST,TIA 13 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM
TIA 13 Sep 11 - 11:46 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 14 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 08:25 PM

Yes, we both agree that we have become addicted to debt... We don't owe it to the Fed... We owe much of it to Treasury notes... Different entities... Tyhe Fed doesn't go out and borrow any money from China... The Fed isn't in debt at all... The Fed doesn't lend money to ordinary citizens...

I mean, you have correctly pointed out the problem but placing the blame in the wrong direction...

The reason that the "big thinkers" in the Tea Party hate the feds is because there are things it can do to cut the unemployment rate here in the US and the Tea Party has only two goals: Get the black guy out of their Whites Only House and two, create as much unemployment as possible to achieve Goal #1... Period...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 11 - 11:41 PM

Bobert: "Yes, we both agree that we have become addicted to debt... We don't owe it to the Fed... We owe much of it to Treasury notes... Different entities... Tyhe Fed doesn't go out and borrow any money from China... The Fed isn't in debt at all... The Fed doesn't lend money to ordinary citizens..."

This post is so out to lunch, where do I begin??....I'll try....

1. " We don't owe it to the Fed......."

A. We owe the Fed interest, of printing the money, with nothing to back it up, UNLESS the Fed sells it to a country or entity willing to buy the debt. Now we owe TWO people!..but they call in 'Lend'

B. You should have watched the links I provided, because I provided over a half a dozen links, of various members of Congress, asking the Top people of the Fed, and Timmy 'Tax Cheat' Geithner, Where did the money go, and which foreign country got the money. So now we owe the Fed the money for printing it, and 'lending' it to someone else, instead of having it go, to where it was intended, through a vote of the TWO HOUSES. Come on Bobert, are you sleeping when you post these?...or are you just NOT paying attention? 'Guest,999' posted a very easy to follow, animated, link, breaking it down for you. i posted another, from the same people. His was about the Fed, mine was about the Bailouts, BY THE FED!

2. ".......We owe much of it to Treasury notes..."

..That are sold through Goldman Sachs, to whom the Fed bails out.
Just click on the two links, it breaks it down for you...that is IF you're really interested.

3. "....The Fed isn't in debt at all... The Fed doesn't lend money to ordinary citizens..."

Of course they're not in debt..they're making money hand over fists, WE are in debt, and the nation is in a financial crisis, because of their practices, in conjunction with Goldman Sachs!

Actually, I can't fault you for getting 'lost in the woods' trying to understand it.....they used a lot of bribery, accounting tricks, stonewalling, and double-talk, to confuse even and ordinary blue player from Mudcat...plus threatening to crash the economy, if they have to be audited!

Shit, Bobs, my music links might be the ones you pay more attention to, and I have pretty good tastes, in not only the music, but in the OTHER links I post too!!
Somehow, because of 'political partisanship' indoctrination, you're missing the 'meat' of what's really going on.....so, in good keeping with posting relevant links, I'm going to post a MUSIC link equivalent to your level of politics. In other words, this link is to your taste in music, what your political bent is to what is really going on..... Music link equal to Bobert's taste in political depth and The short, version, equal to a political pitch, for more spending! ,which is VERY reminiscent of Obama's speech tonight, about the 'new' jobs bill, he is urging be passed, ASAP(17 times in the speech_ with all the urgency of the AIG bailout!

GfS

P.S. Gosh, I hope I didn't hurt your feelings...but somebody HAS to like you enough..............(wink)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:21 AM

Sorry to not have the time to mess with you, GfinS, but I'm headed to DC for the mini concert/workshop I'm giving tomorrow at Archie Edwards Blues Barbershop... Maybe Don will keep you entertained until I get back Tuesday???

Don???

Okay, maybe not...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 10:28 AM

Bobert, Break a leg!... and take all the great influences hopefully shown here, and knock 'em out!!...I'll send you some re-enforcement, via the 'Inter-Galactic Space Telephone!!'
Best Wishes on you gig!!!!

GfS

P.S. Try not to do any 'Go-Go' songs...or give political speeches!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 11:34 PM

Mudcat Forum Tag Team tactics.
Why not stop fighting, look at the facts, and call it for what it is. It's far less stupider! ...and you might LEARN something, and broaden your knowledge base, exchange ideas, and BOTH benefit! It's far superior than starting from a political view, and working your way down.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 02:08 PM

"It's far less stupider!" !!???!?

Better tighten your lug nuts before your wheels fall off, GfS. . . .

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:36 PM

Don: ".."It's far less stupider!" !!???!?

Better tighten your lug nuts before your wheels fall off, GfS. . . ."

Well, coming from you, your quote of my post, left out the context..which doesn't surprise me....

You left out: "Why not stop fighting, look at the facts, and call it for what it is. It's far less stupider!"

So I take it, from your post, you prefer to fight over topics, WITHOUT looking at the FACTS!!

Somehow, I knew it all along! It really was quite obvious, and have been called on it by several posters in the past.

Now you know that EVERYONE knows it!

Happy now?

Regards Just the Same,

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:38 PM

Oh, I left out....."Busted, again!!"

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM

You haven't a clue as to what you are talking about.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM

Well, after your last self-degrading post, I suppose you think you do. ..but really, give it up, you're running on empty....I'm being kind, OK?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:01 AM

GfS, if I missed the context (which I didn't. I did manage to puzzle out what you were attempting to say), it would have been because you expressed it so awkwardly. Rather than "more stupider," it would have been correct to say "even stupider." That conveys what you were groping for without making you appear illiterate.

No need to thank me.

Sorry, I don't have time to play right now. Guests.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 12:57 AM

[sigh]


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:12 AM

Joe, LOL!!!!! That was PERFECT!!

Well, after I got the post I got to work with, I thought 'stupider' was the perfect word!! Though that word is stupid!

Actually, that whole exchange was one of the funniest 'discussion/debate/polarized/etc etc,', to have graced Mudcat! It should make it to the 'OFFICIAL POLITICAL FORUMS OF THE WEB HALL OF FAME'!!

Great lyrical premise, for a fun song....!

And in reality, if Don and I ever sat face to face, we'd be in hysterics..........after we strangled each other first!

It could be a riot!

Well, I have to agree with Bobert...It's been a "New & Improved Thread..."

...(now watch, he'll get back, and find it not 'Democratic Party' enough, and argue!!!

Hope the Good Mood Makes It To YOU!!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM

Poster is Don Firth.
The status of this thread:

'Nuff said.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:31 AM

You must have listened to 'Wait Wait, Don't Tell Me' on NPR, today....
(one eye closed, wagging my forefinger a finger at you!)

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:41 AM

LOL!!

"From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM

Poster is Don Firth. The status of this thread:

'Nuff said. "


.....Wait a minute!!...He forgot to say "UNCLE!!"

Shit, he was so rattled and flabbergasted, he forgot to sign in!!

Big Grin!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 10:00 AM

I can't imagine Don being flabbergasted (or even all a-twitter).

Now, work with me on this, GfS: There are two and ONLY two things about you that piss me off:

1) The insults from a few months back and for them you can kiss my--well, you know.

2) The second is your vapid, bland, jejune, tedious, inane, vacuous, insipid and wishy-washy use of that stupid fuckin' WINK.

Thank you for allowing me to be rid of that emotion. Please carry on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:21 PM

Oh, I use 'wink' instead of ;-) .. or ;-O ..which other people use a lot....
(I think that's how they make it...I just haven't done it that way....'wink' (Actually, I agree with you...I'm not really THAT fond of it myself!)......smirk!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 01:09 PM

The thread creep here has taken a route from New York to L.A. through the Arctic Circle.

The Tea Party are closer to Christian fundamentalists then they are to Ayn Randers.
They are reactionary religious radicals that the Koch Brothers were able to mobilize as just as Carl Rove did during the Bush years.

Ayn Rand would probably turn a lot of the T Partiers off as she was an avowed atheist. I think that Ron Paul would have a problem with this aspect of Ayn Rand.
Paul Ryan is much closer to Ayn Rand and is not a darling of the T Party as far as I can tell.

I think that Norquist and Ryan would not be above using the T Party to promulgate their agendas, though.

Rick Perry, with his association with the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), a reactionary fundamentalist dominionist religious radical group (The American Taliban) is a natural head of the T Party. The Executioner-in-Chief of Texas makes it clear that the T Party supports his authoritarian killing solutions to crime as evinced by the biggest applause line in the evening of the GOP debates and it is to him that you have to look to understand for which view the T Party stands.

If the T Party controls the GOP congress, (which I believe it does) it is because the religious agenda of the Congress on the Republican side is clear, moral issues such as anti-choice, birtherism, and that old bug-a-boo from the so-called "good" book about the Sons of Ham run as a subterranean river in the Southern Baptist view.

Eric Cantor is probably pro-Israel (at least for Netanyahu). Boehner sits on a time bomb with the T Party as the crazies attempt to take over the asylum.

They will back Perry, not Romney. Wall Street, however might back Romney much to the chagrin of the T Party, Perry being the loose cannon.

I'll put money on Wall Street over the T Party, though, in spite of the Koch Brothers who would switch their allegiance at the drop of a bottom line, and side with a Romney/Wall Street alliance.

Obama has a better chance against Perry than Romney. I don't think that Huntsman is dead yet.

To solve the problem of the deficit, look past the Republican bullshit and ask where are your tax dollars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan?

The oil and gas companies make a lot of tax-free money in wars.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 02:10 PM

Cleaned out a bunch of accumulated junk on my computer, including an accumulation of tracking cookies, and apparently dumped the cookies I wanted to keep as well. Sorry about that.

####

No "uncle" here, GfS.

The Tea Party (which is the subject of this thread, remember?) represents the less educated segment of the extreme Right Wing of the Republican Party. But the philosophical base (and all political movements have a philosophical base, whether the proponents are willing to acknowledge it or not) of the puppet masters of the Tea Party is, basically, a weird mix of Christian Fundamentalism and Ayn Rand's "Objectivism."

Strings, I think the political philosophy of Ayn Rand is being extracted from her works and her views of religion conveniently ignored. Despite Rand's professed atheism, her beliefs are a dead ringer for the Calvinist contention that the rich are rich because God favors them. How do we know God favors them? Obvious! God has made them rich. The Tea Partiers like that. (But somehow, I don't really think Jesus would have condoned this tenet.)

But this religious belief does have a secular cousin. Perhaps, especially in Rand's case (and for the benefit of the less religious Tea Partiers), it would be better to liken her view to "Social Darwinism:"   "Poverty is a means of weeding out the unfit, thereby improving the gene pool."

Ayn Rand (and in my more naïve days, I read a lot of her stuff—before I saw some to the real world and grew up!) was unalterably opposed to any kind of government regulation whatsoever on business or business practices. Although she vociferously denied any homage or relationship to the philosophy of Friedrich Nietzche, Rand's "John Galt" was her particular version of the "Űbermensche," or "Superman."

No, GfS, not the guy with the red cape and the blue tights. The "Superman" that Adolf Hitler was talking about, who was beyond the law and beyond morality.

There is many a corporation owner, president, CEO, manager, or major stockholder who is quite fond of this concept and is willing to donate vast amounts of money to (bribe) those politicians who will work hard for deregulation, and making Free Enterprise totally free to do whatever it wishes, and to hell with who gets ground under the wheels of the juggernaut.

Corporate Feudalism.

The Republicans are playing a dangerous game by not repudiating the Tea Party. This Right Wing of the Right Wing, rendered even more ignorant by Rupert Murdoch's disinformation machines like Fox News, and people like Rush Limbaugh and others, may just wind up taking over the whole Republican Party.

Something very much like this happened in the 1930s in Germany.

So, to those who persist in rattling on about the peccadilloes of the World Bank and blaming all the troubles of the world on someone named "Oblabbo," and making snotty and offensive remarks about those who don't stand in awe of their litany of platitudes, mere noise may generate heat, but does not shed much light on the situation.

The old saying, "Those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it," is quite relevant. To those who would accuse me of "living in the past:"    No, I'm not. But I know enough about it not to want to see it happen all over again.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 08:27 PM

I'm NOT a Rick Perry fan. As I posted before he even announced his candidacy, he is primarily the candidate being promoted by the 'Bilderbergers ' ..NO GOOD!....All the other stuff about who he represents here, whether it be Christian fundamentalists, or the Tea Party, or even Texas, is a bunch of 'plastic posturing'....and Romney is just another 'wishy washy' puppet, of the same clowns that brought us "Shovel Ready Barry"
I'd prefer Ron Paul OVER Paul Ryan..only because Paul Ryan would be more beholden to the Kochs, than Ron Paul...but then I'd prefer Kucinich over the shovel ready bullshitter... now he's peddling his crap again, but he steers far away from the term 'stimulus'..because he fears that we already know, that was a hunk of fresh fecal matter!
(well, at least for the simple minded groupies).

Actually, I can't say, for sure who I like out there, yet. Everybody I lean toward ain't a front running name.

Don: "No, GfS, not the guy with the red cape and the blue tights. The "Superman" that Adolf Hitler was talking about, who was beyond the law and beyond morality."

I know who he is.

Don: "The old saying, "Those who won't learn from history are doomed to repeat it," is quite relevant. To those who would accuse me of "living in the past:"    No, I'm not. But I know enough about it not to want to see it happen all over again."

I don't think I said that you were living in the past....I didn't think you could remember that far back...(smirk).....AND, just teasing!

These are TWO things that we, as we get older tend to forget, One is.....umm.....let me see............ummm..........and....a.....hmm..

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 08:55 PM

You'd be surprised what I can remember, GfS. . . .

I just looked up the bills that Ron Paul has sponsored. You say you favor Ron Paul?

And you're not a raving Right Wing conservative?

Sorry, GfS, but you can't have it both ways.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 09:01 PM

Or if Ron Paul is not your first choice, you still prefer him to Obama?

Like I said, you can't have it both ways.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 09:42 PM

Ron Paul = No income taxes???

How you gonna finance anything, GfinS??? Regressive sales taxes... Regressive value added taxes??? Regressive lotteries??? Privatization??? Sell the Washington Monument??? Sell the gold in Fort Knox???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:21 PM

No income tax..now that's a stretch.

Hey, How did your gig go?

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:28 PM

Stretch? I don't think so.

From his own web site.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:04 AM

There still would be taxes....but if you would have READ the link you gave me, you might have seen this(which is true):Speaking of 'all those programs the government funds)...

"Uh, don't you realize that income tax was instituted about the same time they instituted the fed? The fed charges us interest on the money they make.

Income tax does NOT go to any of the things you mentioned, it all goes to the fed to pay our interest on the fiat money."

Like we need fiat money? It's a scam deluxe!

Gfs


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:19 AM

That's what HE says. But. . . .

You really need to check up on these guys, GfS. You can't just take Bill O'Reilly's word for it.

Over and out for now. Been a busy day. Gonna hit the sack early.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 09:32 AM

Gig went extremely well, GfinS... Well attended and well received...

As for Paul??? Yeah, he's right on the wars and he's right on marijuana but he's wrong on everything else which tend to be Lyndon LaRouche-ish...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 12:54 PM

I think a lot of this, and the Tea Party's momentum, has been because of a backlash to abuses of the Fed promoting programs that they can 'lend' money for. It's not that the programs themselves that were bad, or at fault, but by the time taxes are raised, for those programs, the skimming, from the Fed on down, makes it detrimental, and doing more harm, than funding the actual program itself!..Now we have a backlash, and justifiably so. The problem is, the political 'right' tends to blame the program, and the 'left' blames the 'right' for being 'anti-entitlement for the needy'....when if they just stopped long enough to think it through, and stopped playing politics, they would soon see that the problem lies with the funding, and what it costs, just to get it done.

Case in point, Obama wants another stimulus program with the 'Jobs Bill'. He wants it passed BEFORE it is clear about the funding, which will require yet, another bill. He's presently hyping that 'it will all be paid for', and will leave in place the payroll tax cuts, and go after the 'rich'(small business owners). Bottom line, is that this is exactly the same song and dance crap that has been crashing the economy, but with a different spin.
On the 'other' side of the coin, we have calls to get rid of the Fed, and IRS, with the logic that 'all this money' will be freed up, and help bolster the economy.
Personally, I don't think EITHER of these extremes are workable, just in the fact that they are extremes.....and when presented to the 'other' party, which ever perceives it, it looks too extreme!
As I've said over and over again, a closer adherence to the Constitution, and clean up the corruption, within our parties, both of them, should solve most of the problem. It ain't going to happen.
Goldman Sachs, the Fed, the politicians from both sides have drained or resources, for their own greed, and short sighted goal of 'get it now, get it quick, before it's all gone'. ....The problem is, that what a lot of people can't 'get', (especially on the 'left'), is that it's been 'all gone' for a long time now!! We're just running on fumes, and making up 'repayment plans', and 'recovery rumors'.
These elitist assholes, from BOTH sides, have scuttled the ship of the Union, and stole the lifeboats....and I don't think it is possible to argue or debate that issue, from a partisan point of view.
Sorry.

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 01:47 PM

GfS: None of this is news to me. May I suggest you take a look at a google of

D.L. Cuddy: Chronological History of the New World Order

That wasn't news to me either. I expect maybe it won't be for you, either. Some people will talk about tin-foil hats, etc. Screw 'em. It's real and it's as much now as it has been all our lives. Just the facts jack, just the facts.

It is foolish to be drawn into "Oh, you are a conspiracy nut" or words to that effect, imo. Me, yes I do believe what I read there--not so with most of what have been labelled conspiracy sites. The unfortunate part is I ain't nuts, and those facts speak loudly for themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:10 PM

ProLifers in action here:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/audience-tea-party-debate-cheers-leaving-unin

Jesus is puking right now.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:19 PM

"New World Order" is an expression that was used a great deal in speeches by Adolf Hitler, and because of it—and a plethora of essentially baseless conspiracy theories that have their roots in pure paranoia—when any talk of a "world government" comes up, the knee-jerk reaction of a lot of people is to assume that this means the world being run by a cabal of greedy, power-hungry villains who are out to subjugate and exploit the entire world for their own selfish gain.

The League of Nations, essentially a genuine attempt to end such massive conflicts as World War I, was opposed right from the start, partly by fear of something like a world dictatorship, but largely by those who did not want to give up an inch of autonomy—particularly the freedom to dominate and exploit other nations and groups whenever they felt so inclined.   The same with the formation of the United Nations after World War II.

Such an agency can—and has—done a great deal of good in the world. Who, after all, can object to a UN force stepping in when a local dictator begins wreaking ghastly atrocities on his own people?

Well, lots of people, apparently!

And no president, king, dictator, or pooh-bah wants to have something like the League of Nations or the United Nations—or the United Federation of Planets—step in when he has a fit of pique and wants to beat the crap out of a neighbor country.

A properly constituted world government could bring about that elusive goal that everyone says they want:   world peace. But it's fear of an improperly constituted governing agency that keeps it from happening, at least effectively.

But I find the idea that groups such as the Bilderberg group, the Illuminati, the Elders of the Protocols of Zion, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Masons, the Catholic Church, the Knights Templars, and alien creatures from the hollow interior of the earth are in control of our governments and our lives, making it easier to control us by spreading brain-softening drugs with fluoride in our water and spraying chemtrails from the sky, are actually any kind of genuine force in the world beyond giving the ill-informed, over-imaginative, and not-too-tightly-wrapped something to blame their own inadequacies on.

I'm a helluva lot more afraid of such things as Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and the Southern Baptist Leadership Conference!

Or Ron Paul (see TIA's link just above)!

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:25 PM

Don, you get like this any time the subject comes up. Read the damned google page.

The term has been being used for a century. Even one of your presidents remarked about. The fact that the shit is happening right now does not take away from what YOU wish to speak about. To me, it is NOT a conspiracy; it's damned near a fait accompli, and you more than most should be able to see that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:41 PM

That Guest post was me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 03:45 PM

What, GfinS, it's perfectly okay for large corporations to game the system so that the largest shift of wealth from the working class to the rich in American history has occurred over the last5 30 years but not okay to shift any of that wealth back to the working class...

You and the Te3a Party are *************seriously************* confused about the goals and objectives of the folks who have spent hundreds of million$$$ in community organizers, advertising, offices, rallies, buses, etc. to dupe the ignorant to work against their own interests...

The funding, BTW, if you are keeping up with the what Obama is trying to get done is with the another stimulus is to be targeted at the gamers at the top... In other words, the folks who are sitting on between $2T and $3T and crying that they need more so ***they*** can create more jobs...

This is a crock of shit BIG ASS LIE on their party and on the part of their Tea Morons...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:02 PM

GfS: The Bilderbergers are a group whose philosophy I could get along with. Unfortunately, the one area of their machinations that does worry me is the relatively large number of multi-national business representatives who are involved. That is what bodes bad news, imo. Secret societies are secret societies. Hell, we don't hear what goes on behind Vatican walls and no one worries.

The Fed is not the problem as such. The real problem is banks and the unrestricted leeway they have when transacting their business--with OUR money. The Fed is relatively harmless by comparison with the bank down the street from you.

Note please that when we look at the Bush administration and see the tens of billions of dollars that were ripped off by friends of that administration, there are certain advantages to be gained by having the power to appoint people to the Federal Reserve directorship of 12(?) people. They tend to be friends or friends of friends. It's a tight little circle jerk and one that Americans should be ashamed of. I know you are an American who is. I applaud you for that. Now, wtf can we do to change it? (I don't expect you to have an answer, but it's good to dream.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:03 PM

Another waste of money, Bobert. Good call.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 04:36 PM

999, I did not say that Hitler was the first person to use the term. It was actually probably some pharaoh a few millennia ago.

If I "get like this any time the subject comes up," it's because I've heard this kind of thing since I was a kid. Now, I don't doubt that there are genuine conspiracies out there, but the fact is that there are so many different cabals conspiring to get a handle on this or that aspect of world control that no one of them has an upper hand.

And YES, I READ THE WHOLE BLEEDIN' THING!

999, I don't recall you ever getting this surly before.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 05:51 PM

Sorry, Don. I should know better. Here's the olive branch--now, take the fu#kin' thing or I'll swat you with it.

Yeah, it was surly (now that's a word ya don't hear much anymore) and I DO apologize.

Thing is, I don't buy into too many conspiracy things, but I grew up thinking this. I still do, and what I see in terms of economic events hasn't really changed my mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:57 PM

No problem. I've got the olive branch tucked over my ears. Looks good. Sort of like a laurel wreath.

I don't doubt that there are powerful forces out there who would very much like to control everything. 'Twas ever thus. And, indeed, there are factions who wield a lot of power in a lot of places. But despite all the claims, I see no one person or cabal in possession of "The One Ring of Power" (if I may wax Tolkienesque for a moment).

Rather than the colossus of horror that most people try to make of the concept, there is much to be said for a world government, provided it is properly constituted (as in a "Constitution," which delineates what it's powers—what it can and cannot do).

I've recommended it on this forum before, a number of times, but I recommend it again to those who have not read it:   First Democracy : The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. From a review of the book:
For those who think they live in a democracy, Woodruff, a professor of philosophy at the University of Texas, Austin, argues that the ideal of "government by and for the people" was in some ways more closely attained over 2,000 years ago in Athens. Exploring that model of first democracy in depth, Woodruff plainly states its defects (e.g., the exclusion of women and slaves) and outlines its checkered history, while noting its striking features. Athenian democracy was not majority rule, with a disregard for the minority, nor did Athens have elected representatives who were beholden to special interests. Lotteries rather than elections were used to appoint magistrates and council members; juries were very large (and thus hard to bribe). The assembly was composed of the first 6,000 men to arrive on the hill.

The closing critique of the present-day American system ("Afterword: Are Americans Ready for Democracy?") and proposals for its democratization are bracing. Woodruff admires the democratic ideal "because it takes human imperfections into account better than any other ideal of government."

This book will make even jaded readers want to see more of that ideal in action.
The book is an easy read, and I recommend it highly to anyone who assumes he or she already knows what true democracy actually is. Most enlightening!

If Athenian-style democracy (with the imperfections that Woodruff noted fixed) were the basic principle upon which a World Government or "World Order" were founded, this would be a good thing. A very good thing indeed!!

Don Firth

P. S. Note:   One of the things that the Athenians did was to judge how well a political figure performed during his term of office. If he performed well, he could be honored and rewarded. But if he behaved like some of our political figures have behaved recently, he could be banished in disgrace. This judgment was rendered by a jury of 501 citizens, randomly selected by lottery. 501 so there would be no tie votes, and too large to bribe, even if those being judged knew ahead of time who they would be.

I like that idea!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:14 PM

Captain: "999, I did not say that Hitler was the first person to use the term. It was actually probably some pharaoh a few millennia ago..."

"..probably some pharaoh...."?????? You and your supposed probables!!

I can't believe I'm actually talking to the 'Academic', who buys into, your buddy's rap about the Tea Party's chief agenda was to get the black guy out of the White House, because they are merely bigots!

Do you believe that????

Gilligan: "You and the Tea Party are *************seriously************* confused about the goals and objectives of the folks who have spent hundreds of million$$$ in community organizers, advertising, offices, rallies, buses, etc. to dupe the ignorant to work against their own interests..."

Hey, wasn't Obama's claim to fame that of being a 'community organizer'??..which in his book, he even admitted his programs were a failure??
Some guys just never learn!!

Hey, do you really believe that the Tea Party's main agenda was against blacks?..and one being in the White House??

Waiting....

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:32 PM

GfS: We are all gonna have rough edges from time to time. Allow me to attest to this: Don Firth is an honourable man, well-read and honest ALL the time. One of the pleasures of arguing with him is this: it's not about winning/losing with Don, it's about arriving at mutual understanding. Given the chance, you'll find him to be that way.

Sometimes in political debates/discussions (or religious discussions) it's very easy to lose sight of the debate's/discussion's purpose. Well, it's easy for me, anyway. I don't wanna turn this into a LHOTP or Walton's episode, but please reassess your position a bit. There has to be give and take.

And that's it from this mountain top somewhere in Tibet. Or British Columbia. Well, ok it's a hill in Quebec, but on a clear day you can see the Big Dipper when it's night, and one can think with one's eyes closed.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:38 PM

That guest post was me. If me arse weren't stapled to me 'ips I'd surely forget it somewhere.

And for the wiseguys out there, the letter with 'ips is an aitch, not an ell.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:39 PM

For those of us who worked in the civil rights movement we can see code talk from a thousand miles away...

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck its a duck...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:24 PM

Except when it walks like a duck in one post...then a turkey...then a chicken...then some crazy critter no one recognizes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:37 PM

Yeah, TIA...

Lotta CYA stuff going on here with the usual suspect...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:44 PM

So, at last night's Tea Party debate, someone (several people) shouted "Yeah (let him die)"....but it's not the Tea Party, it's just a few crazies.

At a Sarah Palin rally, someone (several people) shout "hang him (Obama)"... but it's not the Tea Party, it's just a few crazies.

At an Progressive rally, someone in the Tea Party opposition group (several people) are packing heat...but it's not the Tea Party, it's just a few crazies.

At Glenn Beck's Tea Party extravanganza on the National Mall, someone (several people) have signs saying "next time we bring guns", and someone else (several people) wave signs depicting Obama as in an 18th Century racist cartoon of an African with a bone in his nose (actually that's New Guinea, but we do not expect historical or cultural accuracy from the few crazies do we?)

Don't worry. That is not the Tea Party...it's just a few crazies.


Okay Tea Partiers, quick question: Is it actually the same few crazies at every rally all over the USA? The Tea Party isn't actually characteristically violent, ignorant, unknowingly un-christian, and racist are they? It's just a few crazies right?...right?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: TIA
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 11:46 PM

Just proving that the above is me...member for about 12 years. Security system wipes cookies every time I close Explorer.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party- New & Improved Thread...
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Sep 11 - 01:06 AM

Lotta babble, no answer. So, the question goes out, again...Bobert and Don, Do you think the main agenda to the Tea Party, is racist, and wanting, as Bobert said, "To get the black guy out of the White House?"
Simple question...Don't worry, I'm not a Tea Partier. I actually belong to the same party as George Washington.(Scroll down the page, to the chart, to see what party).
..and I'm NOT in the minority. New numbers out today, 65% of Americans disapprove of the way Obama is doing his job.
(Now watch, some brilliant, but biased person will say they don't put credibility in polls...let me save you the trouble...)

Don't forget the question.....

GfS


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