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BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook

GUEST,Shimrod 18 Apr 11 - 02:32 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Apr 11 - 03:50 PM
Ed T 18 Apr 11 - 04:07 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 18 Apr 11 - 05:21 PM
Bonzo3legs 18 Apr 11 - 10:16 PM
J-boy 20 Apr 11 - 12:30 AM
ollaimh 20 Apr 11 - 12:59 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Apr 11 - 02:47 AM
GUEST,Patsy 20 Apr 11 - 02:52 AM
Musket 20 Apr 11 - 04:56 AM
Stu 20 Apr 11 - 06:15 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 20 Apr 11 - 05:11 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Apr 11 - 05:22 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 21 Apr 11 - 03:47 PM
gnu 21 Apr 11 - 04:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Apr 11 - 04:44 PM
Ed T 21 Apr 11 - 05:44 PM
gnu 21 Apr 11 - 05:47 PM
gnu 21 Apr 11 - 06:05 PM
Ed T 21 Apr 11 - 06:33 PM
Bonzo3legs 21 Apr 11 - 06:57 PM
Ed T 21 Apr 11 - 08:14 PM
gnu 22 Apr 11 - 09:21 AM
Ed T 22 Apr 11 - 01:15 PM
Ed T 22 Apr 11 - 01:33 PM
gnu 22 Apr 11 - 02:01 PM
Ed T 22 Apr 11 - 04:45 PM
gnu 22 Apr 11 - 04:48 PM
ollaimh 24 Apr 11 - 03:26 PM
Mrrzy 24 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM
gnu 24 Apr 11 - 04:11 PM
Bonzo3legs 24 Apr 11 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,mg 24 Apr 11 - 05:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 24 Apr 11 - 05:48 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 02:32 PM

Lizzie,

I think we've been over this before. When Anatomically Modern Humans moved out of Africa around 50,000 years ago they caused HAVOC. They exterminated the megafauna of five continents and they certainly didn't live in harmony with their environments! Some groups learned how to do this - but by no means all.

In addition many indigenous groups indulged in persistent and deadly warfare with their neighbours. North America was a hot bed of savage warfare for centuries: mass murder, rape, scalping and torture were rife. After the European influx many tribes saw European weapons as ideal tools to slaughter their neighbours with. Tribes frequently signed up as mercenaries so that they could batter their enemies more efficiently and right up to the reservation period they hated their 'traditional' enemies more that they did the white man.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 03:50 PM

Gee, Shimrod, you are destroying Lizzie's comfortable little beliefs.

Her idea of a pastoral, happy, peaceful society, living without aggression and greed, has been dream for many centuries.

History. however, shows us that Mankind is naturally warlike, aggressive and grasping; I see little evidence of an evolutionary change toward a nature in harmony with Mother Nature, or any other imagined 'deity'. Peace exists as a result of fear of consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 04:07 PM

""Peace exists as a result of fear of consequences.""

If it were only that simple:)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 05:21 PM

My poem "Land Rights"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 10:16 PM

In Agentina, the indians commute by bus and train, most of everyone else drives. The volume of traffic on Saturday night has to be seen to be believed on the autopistas around Buenos Aires.

My wife bought a wonderful knitted hat - very colourful, from a very nice indian lady in Calle Florida today. They don't seem to do tango dancing though.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: J-boy
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:30 AM

There is no such thing nor has there ever been a "Noble Savage". The term was coined long ago by conquerors who felt a need(born out of guilt perhaps) to romanticize the people they plundered.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: ollaimh
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 12:59 AM

north american natives were subjected to genocide and crimes aginst humanity, and still do not recieve fairness in the legal syatem or in most areas of endeavour. a little justice and a lot less whineing about natives wanting your money would be nice. perhaps thats too much for capitalist raised people.

we still have generation of natives who were forced into the residential shools where they were although they were legally taken in a wards of several churches. mainly catholic anglican presbyterian and methodist churches. and these churches were given their power by the state, they were deprived of the necessities of life and deprived fo basic health care untill the late seventies in canada and the usa. they had a death rate over fifty per cent over the century and a half of these schools--for each class!!

this is horriffic for people to grow up in so a little sympathy is in prder and a lot less nasty bad mouthing about casinos or pretending that anyone in darby shire has been through this malestrom. those making these awfull ignorant remarks are dehumanized and soulless. the product of centuries of military capitalism that has caused much suffering and is destroying the viability of life on earth.

if you listened to natives you'd fimd them among the most firgiving and honest people on earth--with a lot to teach the jaded naysayers of militarism


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 02:47 AM

Thank you, ollaimh. The Floyd Red Crow Westerman 'reservation concentration camps' link above speaks of just what you have written.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 02:52 AM

The Indigenous Peoples Outlook on the Isle of Wight is very hard to understand especialy if you are originally from the Mainland. Once you are accepted and not seen as being another 'Grockle (tourist)' you are fine. I did have a giggle looking at the local paper 'The County Press' especially after the recent thread on 'chavs' I notice they have ALDI and LIDL shops popping up there, is this a downward slide for them I wonder?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Musket
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 04:56 AM

Floyd Westerman wrote a powerful song called Quiet Desperation. I note that many see this as a cry of the indigenous Americans or whatever you call them these days.

I sing that song as a result of seeing people on the streets, carrier bag handlers, Wetherspoons regulars and Sally Army guests.

A cry to belong is not the exclusive right of heritage. I drive past an immigration removal centre attached to a local prison and find myself wondering if I could ever comprehend what must be going through the heads of many of those incarcerated there.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Stu
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 06:15 AM

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee should be required reading in every school on the planet; it's a depressing and damning indictment of greed and self-interest driving the destruction of a continent-wide group of cultures.

I was lucky enough last year to be in South Dakota and met several native Americans and see their culture first-hand. Part of that experience was a trip to the Crazy Hose Monument in the Black Hills (Time dictated it was there or Mount Rushmore. No contest). It was truly inspirational to see how these people refuse to be victims any longer; indeed as I sit here a small piece of the mountain being sculpted by Korczak's children into the Crazy Horse Monument sits on my desk to remind me of the ability to triumph over adversity with dignity and a commitment to truthfulness. They are building a cultural centre there and have refused federal funding; memories are long, scars are deep in this part of the world and the Lakota remember the lies of the federal government regarding the Black Hills so they are creating this entire complex on their own terms. Meanwhile, just down the road Pine Ridge is still home to people in desperate poverty and living a third world existence, although many are helping themselves.

But then the fuckers in charge are still selling out for profit and greed all over the world. We sit back whilst China essentially destroys Tibet, we happily consume the palm oil products which are the result of flattening large areas of pristine rainforest inhabited by isolated tribes and rare wildlife.

I sat one night in a bar in a small town in North Dakota and met a white man there who had taught on Pine Ridge for 30 years, art and English. He was a 'spirit rider' and had been accepted as such by the tribe. It was a fascinating couple of hours conversation and that man opened my eyes wider than ever before.

It'll never end because there are to many wankers in charge.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 05:11 PM

As I've suggested here, the United Nations should finally respect land rights, make all economic immigration illegal from now on, and help genuine asylum seekers to their nearest safe nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Apr 11 - 05:22 PM

'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' - Part 1 - Youtube

(links to all other parts are via this link)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 03:47 PM

Yes, I read 'Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee' when it first came out c. 1970 and I was shocked at the injustices that it depicted being meted out to Native Americans in the 19th century. Several years later I saw the film 'Dances With Wolves' about how Kevin Coster bonded with the 'noble' Sioux, at one point tangling with the 'nasty' Pawnee who were beyond redemption because they had acted as mercenaries for the White Man.

The I read a book called 'The Pawnee Indians'(first pub. 1951) by George E. Hyde - an American historian with extensive knowledge of the histories of several Native American tribes.

The Pawnees lived in the valley of the Platte River in what is now Nebraska. They had arrived there centuries before the Sioux and lived in earth lodge villages. Their economy was a mixture of farming and buffalo hunting. In the late 18th century they began to have extensive contact with Europeans and were decimated by European diseases - to which they had no immunity. During this period, and on into the 19th century, the Sioux preyed on them mercilessly. While the Pawnee struggled with disease the Sioux added to their misery by raiding their villages, stealing their horse herds and preventing them from farming and hunting. By the time that the US Cavalry arrived and offered the Pawnee the opportunity to get some revenge they seized on it and signed up as mercenaries.

It wasn't just the White Man who was mean to the indigenous people of North America - the indigenous people were mean to each other!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 04:22 PM

"and still do not recieve fairness in the legal syatem or in most areas of endeavour"

Shitting bull. The courts of Canada are not corrupt any more for the Red Man as for the White Man. In most areas of endeavour, the Red Man has far more advantages the the White Man... free education, priority for government jobs, grants of money for starting businesses, licenses, quotas and free equipment for fishing, lumbering... and so on. They are NOT at a disadvantage. They have the long end of the stick and, in MANY cases, are using that stick to beat up the poor Whites who fish, lumber, hunt... under the laws and abide by those laws.

I can take you up country and show you Whites livin in squalor and take you up country and show you Reds livin well paid for by the Whites. It should NOT be about Red and White but tell that to the Whites who are livin in squalor and still have to pay sales tax on everything they can barely afford to buy, especially when they can't compete with the Red Man because he is subsidised by the White Man's tax dollars.

Come on eh? I think some a youse really don't know what goes on in the back country. It ain't pretty for the Reds or the Whites, but to say the Red Man is being downtrodden??? ahhh, not around here.

Before I get called racist or whatever, I got friends on both sides and I know assholes on both sides. The real assholes are the politicians and big business who play the assholes up country to their advantage. I could tell ya stories.

As for the environment, money talks and bullshit walks... red, white or purple polka dot.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 04:44 PM

Not all is sweet for the Indians in Alberta.
Poor schools, poor land, bad administration by tribal leaders who lack education and business sense, no leadership from the provincial government, and a high incidence of alcohol and drug abuse- much like inner city white/hispanic/black ghettos.
And bigoted whites who only pay lip service to integration and equality of opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:44 PM

Gnu, There are relatively few native peoples in Atlantic Canada, compared to the rest of Canada. And, fortunately they do not live in remote communities, like in the rest of Canada. Also, while there was discrimination, Atlantic Canada's native community never saw discrimination anywhere like many other parts of Canada, like Q states.

That is why conditions that you see, are very much different from other parts of Canada, where some live in third world conditions. But, do not be fooled into thinking what you see is reflective of other areas of Canada.

I have travelled to most communities in Atlantic Canada. Thanks to EI (plenty of it to go around, with little work), and other social programs, most people don't have it too bad, except if they choose different, or are impacted by substance abuse.

Atlantic Canadians should be proud that it's native communities lare not like the poor conditions in other areas, rather than what you seem to puting forward.

Yes, native Canadians have communal fishing rights, special fishing and hunting rights and quotas, and unique tax breaks. The reason for most of that is Britain signed agreements to provide special access to resources. They did so to avoid conflicts with a significant military force at that time.

Canada tried for years to ignore these valid treaties Eventually, many were deemed valid by the highest courts in Canada. Because the native communities were denied these rights (and access to resources) for hundreds of years by Canada, Canada's Supreme court ordered the government to assist these communities to establish their rightful place in resource industries the valid treaties promised (native rights are mostly seen as communal, not individual).

The Canadian government was "ordered" to purchase these communities fishing boats and gear and forestry gear, and to train those in the community to use it. These treaties do give them special access to these resources. They have a first "right" after conservation requirements. After this, comes the "privlidge" to fish, hunt and access to common resources given to other Canadian citizens by the government. So, native communities have a "right" to access to resources, other Canadians have a "privilidge", that is governed by government, for the people of Canada.

As a law abiding country, Canada cannot select to honor legally valid commitments people like and ignore those they don't like. You may not like it. But, the treaties are valid and that is Canadian law, end of story. It is best to get over it and move on.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 05:47 PM

That is very sad Q. I had heard some stories of such from my Newfie buddies who went out there to teach and work. 999 tells of abuses too.

But, here, it's a bit different story. It has come to violence when the Whites were pissed off at the Reds, for good reason. It's all too complicated... let me just say that... as I said before, ALL peoples would like to do well and do well by the environment. No group is chaste and to exault one over another is crap. That was all I wanted to infuse.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:05 PM

Glad I caught that Ed before I left this thread... "They have a first "right" after conservation requirements."

So, why do they fish small lobsters out of season and deliver them after dark? Why do they bang moose out of season and leave them in the woods when they run "too far in". Why do they sell salmon and moose and deer cheap no matter the season?

Okay... the Native Peoples out west... no, I don't know about them. But HERE, I have seen the long caravans of white Dodge Maxivans with occupants armed with machine guns travelling in the backwoods delivering ******** across the US border. Ya can't tell me these guys are hurting. I KNOW the difference.

That's right. They ain't all they are cracked up to be. That is my point.

Out west? I dunno. In our neck of the woods... I know.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:33 PM

""So, why do they fish small lobsters out of season and deliver them after dark? Why do they bang moose out of season and leave them in the woods when they run "too far in". Why do they sell salmon and moose and deer cheap no matter the season?""

You don't get it Gnu. And, you are mixing up a whole lot of things.
As you say, there are assholes everwhere, regardless of what group they belong to. That does not make a whole society assholes.

There are seasons that have nothing to do about conservation, they are merely for the lobster harvesters convenience and for marketing purposes. Natives are not bound to these non-conservation rules.

Because natives have a legal "right", confrmed by Canada's highest court to have first access following the conservation needs of the species, government must prove that any controls on the native "communal" fishery are based on conservation. They do not have to do that for other commercial fish harvesters, (nor natives who fish as private individuals) because this access is not a right, but a privlidge. Natives have the same opportunity as others to sell their legal catch for whatever price or time of the day they wish.

I suspect they have been harassed and boycotted by local buyers/fishermen in some of the areas near you. This likely has encouraged them to seek alternative, non-traditional markets or to sell to locals.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 06:57 PM

An indian looking pursar on our Aerolineas Argentinas flight back to Buenos Aires this afternoon bumped us up to business class - absolutely super lady.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 21 Apr 11 - 08:14 PM

CLEAN, DRINKABLE WATER IS A HUMAN RIGHT
"Every family in this country (Canada) should have access to clean, safe drinking water and First Nations should not be an exception." - Assembly of First Nations National Chief Shawn A-in-chut Atleo

""Across Canada, 20,000 First Nations people live without running water or sewage. This is in addition to more than 110 First Nations communities where the tap water is not safe to drink. According to an expert study commissioned by the federal government, Canada has not provided First Nations adequate infrastructure and support to enjoy the same quality of drinking water as other communities.
Amnesty International""


In an article in the Edmonton Journal, Christina Doktor of the Alberta Federation of Labour writes:

"Despite living in a wealthy province in a wealthy country, amid the operations of oil and gas companies making mega profits, they [the Lubicon Cree] live in Third World conditions. Many homes lack running water or indoor toilets. There is no grocery store, no gas station, no health facility and no recreation facilities."

"Why, you might ask, is everyone -- the provincial government, the federal government and private corporations -- able to make money from oil and gas operations on Lubicon territory, while the band members themselves are left with next to nothing?"

Canada Native People and Poverty


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 09:21 AM

Ed... it is indeed shameful and unacceptable.

However, you said "... following the conservation needs of the species,"

Harvesting undersize lobster is shameful and unacceptable. That's what "*I* don't get."

Anyway, I think (?) I made my point.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:15 PM

""Harvesting undersize lobster is shameful and unacceptable. That's what "*I* don't get.""

Well, I guess it all depends on what you mean by "undersized lobsters" Most of those caught in the Gulf of St. Lawrence (the canners) would be "legally" considered "undersided" in the rest of Atlantic Canada, down into the USA. Is this shameful and unacxceptable to you?

Can you be more specific. Are you saying that some native and non-native people both break conservation laws (let's be clear on that term, conservation laws).Or, are you saying that the native community as a whole are breaking conservation laws, unlike the non native fish harvesting community?

What I don't get is when a non-native lobster fisherman does sonmething illegal, you merely see him as an individual asshole. But, when a native does the same thing you see this person as reflecting the entire native community. Can't you see the different lenses you are using to portray native peoples and their society from those of your own?

Some native people do not live on reserves, nor do they claim to be bound by Band rules. Canada's Supreme court ruled that this native right is communial, not individual.(I suspect this will be challenged some day).

Bands allow some of their "off reserve" members to fish two or three lobster traps per year. Bands employ members to fish under their band rights, and in most cases fish under a fishing plan, approved by government. They share some of the catch with on and off reserve members. They also have the right to sell their catch commercially, as they see fit (government tried to challenge the commercial aspect, but the right to sell the catch was confirmed by the Supreme Court).

The native community also has a right to harvest a limited number of species (fish, moose etc) for religious and cermonial purposes. This is very limited and controlled.

The Supreme Court has ruled that the Government has the responsibility to manage natural resources, like fish, including the native harvest.However, they are bound by the conservation rules, mentioned earlier.

In the Canadian "Marshall" Suprreme Court ruling, it was made clear that the native rights and treaties are not "frozen in time". It also ruled that, since it had, contrary to the treaties, limited native access to commercial fisheries for hunderds of years, the Government of Canada has the responsibility to ensure that the native fishery advances to it's rightful place, alongside the non-native harvest.

It is not realistic to expect that native fishermen could develop this fishery while competing with commercial fishermen with considerable knowledge. So, special provisions are made to allow natives access to a fishery when non-native commercial fishermen are not fishing. This can be done as long as it does not impact the conservation needs of the species.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 01:33 PM

Gnu,
If you wish to consider something unwise and wasteful(I won't use the word shameful) consider the fall lobster fishery off northern New Brunswick and western PEI.

Through much of the mid August to Mid October season most of the lobsters are soft shelled (recently moulted). The maxium meat content of a lobster is about 27 percent. The meat content in those lobsters are frequently very low, as low as 18 percent. Obviously, the quality of the product is very low. If these folks fished the same time as the other Gulf of St. Lawrence fishermen, in late Spring to early Summer, the meat content would be nearer the maxium and catch quality much superior.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 02:01 PM

I wasn't gonna come back to this thread but I'm glad I did. Ed, re the lobsters, you are right and I was wrong. It finally sunk in. Thanks for taking the time to set me straight on the lobsters... same thing on the moose applies in a way.

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Ed T
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:45 PM

Gnu,

Kind of you to say it. And, it reflects well on you.

But, IMO, there is no right or wrong. There are just personal viewpoints that frequently change with experience and consideration of different perspectives. To me, that is a good aspect of life.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 11 - 04:48 PM

I try not to reflect. On sunny days, I wear a hat.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: ollaimh
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 03:26 PM

well i'm glad most of the simpleton and bigoted attitudes went quite but gnu, you know absolutelty nothing about the canadian courts. i worked in them for years, representingt a lot of natives. they were not allowed to sue in court in most provinces untill circa 1970, fererally untill 1968, ever wonder why the backlog of land claims and other native rights suits. they do not get proper legal representation, they do not get the same damages for the same torts as white people do--just look at the paltry settlements for the residential schools--white people would have gotten a half a million to three million each, natives get twenty thou if they are lucky. they get different treastment from the police. i won a lot of criminal defences for natives by just pleading not guilty--the cops would never have the evidence as they didn't expect a native to have a decent lawyer willing to run the trial. and let me tell you was constantly being reported to the law society on false claims that i was dragging out the cases--lucky for me i won all the trials or appeals that were subject to complaint. most white lawyer plead natives guilty whether they have a defence or not, and most cops over charge natives expecting guilty pleas and looking to get their convoiction rates up.

in addition i worked in a poverty law clinic for a while and we had to sue to get the same appeals for natives on welfare and disability aS WHITES GET.the bureaucrats would routinely deny them things they were legally entitled to and usually the native has no acess to sue--except the odd poverty law clinic. then they get so used to doing this the bureaucrats think its legal --untill you get before a judge . i used to get unbelievable responses. i had to sue to just look at the file more thasn once--this is given to the client aas routine if you are white.

i could go on but if you think natives get equal access to courts you are absolutely ignorant on the subject.

moreover the term indigenous people actually means something. you aren't an indegineous person becaue your family has lived somewhere a long time-- that attitude is at the heart of colonial imperialism.

be gratefull tyhat natives are so foirgiving--they have a lot to hate us for, and the present generation is just comming out of the residential schools holoucoust. ever wonder why native population is prexsently booming? well have of ever generation aren't killed by heglect of health care anymore--they don't have equal health care nor equal access to water and decent food but they are way ahead of pre 1978 when th residential schools were abolished, so their children get to grow to adulthood in number unknown since before the arrivasl of the white man.

again be gratefull they are so foirgiving


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 03:46 PM

"The" indigineous people? You mean, the ones who stayed in SouthEastern Africa till now? Otherwise there seem to be different indiginous people for each ecological niche (African, Aboriginal, European, etc.)...


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: gnu
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 04:11 PM

"simpleton and bigoted attitudes"

That's as far as I read. Fuck you. For you to dismiss me and what I have seen and call me a simpleton and a bigot... fuck you. I can guarantee that native my freinds would say the same.

gnightgnu


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 04:35 PM

"indigineous people"

This does seem to be a rather long winded way of saying indians does it not???


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 05:18 PM

Probably not in Australia, Hawaii, Greenland...mg


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Subject: RE: BS: The Indigenous Peoples Outlook
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 05:48 PM

ollaimh is correct is stating that not until 1970 were Canada's aboriginal people able to pursue aboriginal rights in the Supreme Court of Canada. In British Columbia, the BC treaty process by means aboriginal rights could be pursued did not exist until 1993.
In British Columbia, 49 sets of negotiations are underway in the courts.
The sad affair of child abuse in government and religious native schools hopefully is over.

As ollaih and Et T. posted, many aboriginal settlements lack basic amenities; near Calgary and some other cities, they are able to get money through sand and gravel, casino, and other operations, but others, like the Cree, are unable to mount legal actions in Alberta courts to protect their lands.
Near the oil sands operation in Alberta and Saskatchewan, they face contamination of the rivers and lakes and loss of land to the expanding operations, without compensation.
The oil sands cover an area the size of Florida. Leases are granted without consultation with or compensation to aborigilal peoples living on the land. The Athabaska, River formerly a source of fish, potable water, and animal habitat over a large area, is degraded by toxins and use of water to extract the bitumen.
http:..dirtyoilsands.org/files/TEN_CITSC_TarSands_Info_Sheet.pdf
(and other papers on the net).

The Canadian oil sands (primarily, other smaller Canadian contributors) furnish twice as much oil imported by the U. S. as Saudi Arabia and Mexico combined, the next two largest sources. [Jan. 2011 figures, Canada 2.826 million bbls, Saudi Arabia 1.102 million bbls and Mexico 1.366 million bbls (U. S. government figures, www.eia.doe.gov).

Yet the aboriginal peoples get nothing for the land that has been taken from them and loss of its use.


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Mudcat time: 27 October 4:36 PM EDT

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