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BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

GUEST,Peter Laban 28 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Aug 11 - 12:52 PM
Jim Martin 23 Aug 11 - 07:12 AM
Charley Noble 22 Aug 11 - 08:01 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Aug 11 - 07:38 PM
gnu 22 Aug 11 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 22 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM
gnu 21 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM
Charley Noble 21 Aug 11 - 11:09 AM
gnu 20 Aug 11 - 08:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Aug 11 - 05:35 PM
gnu 20 Aug 11 - 03:32 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Aug 11 - 03:29 PM
Charley Noble 20 Aug 11 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 20 Aug 11 - 05:06 AM
GUEST 20 Aug 11 - 04:21 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Aug 11 - 01:57 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 19 Aug 11 - 07:57 AM
Charley Noble 18 Aug 11 - 08:34 PM
gnu 18 Aug 11 - 08:05 PM
Charley Noble 18 Aug 11 - 07:45 PM
Charley Noble 12 Aug 11 - 07:47 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Aug 11 - 10:05 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Aug 11 - 09:46 PM
Charley Noble 10 Aug 11 - 10:56 PM
gnu 10 Aug 11 - 07:05 PM
Jack Campin 10 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM
gnu 03 Aug 11 - 02:47 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Aug 11 - 02:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Aug 11 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 03 Aug 11 - 10:07 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 11 - 09:57 PM
Charley Noble 02 Aug 11 - 08:32 PM
Jack Campin 02 Aug 11 - 07:42 PM
Jack Campin 02 Aug 11 - 07:16 PM
Donuel 02 Aug 11 - 07:15 PM
Charley Noble 02 Aug 11 - 07:08 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM
Donuel 02 Aug 11 - 05:12 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 02 Aug 11 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,mg 31 Jul 11 - 08:26 PM
gnu 31 Jul 11 - 07:06 PM
Jack Campin 31 Jul 11 - 06:42 PM
Charley Noble 31 Jul 11 - 02:42 PM
gnu 31 Jul 11 - 02:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 31 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM
Charley Noble 31 Jul 11 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 31 Jul 11 - 05:45 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Jul 11 - 05:45 PM
gnu 26 Jul 11 - 04:47 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 10:27 AM

Just a little reminder reactors can get knocked anywhere : Baltimore Sun article


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 12:52 PM

Vanuatu Islands are thousands of miles to the south of Japan. Both are on the "Ring of Fire,", the Pacific plate boundaries which include the Pacific coasts of the Americas on the eastern side of the Pacific Ocean. Plate boundaries and associated faults ("cracks") ring the Pacific Ocean.
Activity in one region does not directly correlate with activity in another.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:12 AM

Vanuatu earthquake, not supposed to have caused tsunami but it just shows there's still plenty of seismic activity in the area:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14603993


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 08:01 PM

gnu-

"crack on ocean floor"

Too much sad information.

My niece Heather is indeed now embedded south of Tokyo, teaching English for two years. She should be relatively safe unless something nasty happens south of Tokyo. She is wise beyond her years and will most likely avoid products from the Fukushima Prefecture.

It's a damn pity that world news flits from one story to another and just because Fukushima is long term news, they just don't cover it with the attention it deserves. Remember the "day count" they used to do for Iraq? Or was that Vietnam?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 07:38 PM

Kan intends to visit the Fukushima Prefecture on Saturday to give the bad news about long term no-go areas. Ministers declined to name specific areas.
Possible compensation- through buying up land, or through leasing arrangements- has not been decided. Further studies will be made to see if decomtamination is possible.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 04:06 PM

".... decades."

Gee. That could be a lifetime or three or...

Fucking tragic.

And it ain't over yet. And not just for Japan.

Sigh. Doesn't even make the news here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 22 Aug 11 - 03:01 PM

Japanese Government acknowledges, for the first time, many homes and farms around Fukushima, both inside and outside the twelve mile exclusion zone, will be too contaminated for their owners to return, possibly for decades.

article


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:28 AM

Crack in ocean floor pic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Aug 11 - 11:09 AM

gnu-

Well, the Tennessee Valley Authority wants this plant to be perfect.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 08:43 PM

Even so, Q, 55% completed and only going on line in 9 years? THAT sounds strange too. This stuff boggles the mind. Makes ya wonder eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 05:35 PM

Oops! $4.9 billion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 03:32 PM

$45B? Something sounds very odd about that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 03:29 PM

The Tennessee Valley Authority has approved plans to complete a 44.9 billion plan to complete a nuclear unit at the Bellefonte site [northeast Alabama] in Alabama. The plant, 55% complete, is expected to go online in 2020.
Wall Street Journal, August 18, 2011, "TVA Approves Plan to Finish Alabama Nuclear Plant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 09:15 AM

Peter-

Thanks to the link to the new set of photos, and their notes.

Working at Fukushima certainly rivals working in Hell, and without the long-term benefits.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 05:06 AM

That was me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 11 - 04:21 AM

Fukushima : an interactive guide


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 01:57 PM

UJapan, despite its nuclear industry, is still heavily dependent on oil imports; the country is only 16% energy efficient.
46% of energy comes from oil, 21% from coal. 80% of oil comes from the Middle East, with a large number of importers-suppliers, including Mitsubichi.


http://www/eia.gov/cabs/Japan/pdf.pdf


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Aug 11 - 07:57 AM

Just some snippets:

Fukushima was again shaken yesterday, by a 6.8 quake.

Japanese government has for the first time since the tsunami given permission to re-start a nuclear reactor, reactor nr. 3 at the Tomari installation owned by the Hokkaido Power Company.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 08:34 PM

On a positive note, it seems like major groups of Japanese researchers are now attempting to fill in the blanks of TEPCO and the governmental agencies which are supposed to monitor or regulate the nuclear industry.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 08:05 PM

And it doesn't even make the news here. I wonder why? It's all about the riots in England. As it was, still is, in their "mid-eastern" colonies... sad shit.

And I mean that. Anybody that doesn't think Japan is not a distant "colony" of Her Majesty is just not a student of history. BP reaches far and wide. They reach out and touch many people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Aug 11 - 07:45 PM

Here's the most comprehensive report (via Al Jazeera) I've run across from Japanese sources, and one of the grimmest: Click here for report!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Aug 11 - 07:47 AM

Though few members of the public are aware of it, at Three Mile Island the melted fuel rods breached the primary containment vessel, took one horrified look around, and then melted their way back inside. But that report didn't surface until 5 years after the "incident."

We have a lot more "lessons to learn" about Fukushima-1, and it will take years to learn what they are.

Meanwhile, the nuclear industry has a new and safer model to sell you, and there might even be some truth to their statement.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 10:05 PM

This may have been reported before, since it was reported Monday by the Mainichi Daily News.
"Fuel inside one of the reactors at the Fukushima complex may have melted twice. "......possibly breached the vessel after melting again at the bottom of the vessel,.... Most of the fuel at the No. 3 reactor may have fallen into the containment vessel underneath and if so, the current method used to cool the reactor would need reviewing,...." This would further delay the schedule to contain the disaster.
Tanabe, a nuclear expert, said "I presume that the fuel fell to the bottom of the containment vessel made of concrete and reacted violently with its cement, releasing large amounts of radioactive materials into the outside from the pressure vessel."
"Elevated levels of radiation were actually detected for several days from March 21 in the Tohoku region in which the Daiichi power plant is located and the nearby Kanto region, which includes Tokyo and its surrounding area."


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 11 - 09:46 PM

The Mainichi Daily News has an article about the water treatment system.
TEPCO seems to be happy that the "operating rate of a radioactive water treatment system at Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant stood at "a record 77.4 percent between Aug. 3 and 9" after the system became operational on June 28.
But a TEPCO deputy chief said "ther will be a slight delay in achieving the utility's objective of treating radioactive water through the circulating injection cooling system within this year due to a series of mishaps."
Lighting and malfunctioning pumps temporarily stalled treatment operations, bring the amount of contaminated water to 121,140 cubic meters as of Aug. 9, down by only 2740 cubic meters from July 12. "TEPCO says it plans to gradually increase the system's operating rate to 80 to 90 percent.
All of which means a tremendous volume of water remains to be treated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 10:56 PM

Jack-

Thanks for your latest harvest.

The Fox News link is a curious one. They certainly aren't against nuclear power but I guess they just couldn't resist another way to "terrorize" the American public. Keep them barefoot and terrorized; that's the deal!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 07:05 PM

But, surely it's more important to fight the Taliban and throw cuise missles arond the middle East like nerf balls at a child's birthday party on behalf of BP?


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Aug 11 - 04:18 PM

More from Peter Boulding:

I haven't even managed to learn whether they've finally installed their plastic, steel-framed tent around the remains of reactor building #1 (the only images on the web are computerised artists' impressions), although I did find a piece about ten days ago to the effect that TEPCO are starting work on one for reactor building #3... in a rush, because the typhoon season has begun. (What about reactor building #4?)

The Mainichi Daily News now says erection of the cover for reactor building #1 will start today, and should be completed by the end of September. "Once the installation is completed at the reactor", they add, "Tokyo Electric will consider installing similar coverings for the Nos. 3 and 4 reactors."

Other updates:

* The Japanese government is lifting its non-mandatory evacuation advice regarding *some* areas outside the 20-kilometre limit.

* The cooling water decontamination/recycling system is still suffering too much downtime, with pumps breaking down and backup pumps failing to start. The government regulator, itself under fire (see below), is attempting to get heavy with TEPCO about this.

* Prime Minister Naoto Kan may step down by the end of this month--if he manages to get two bills passed through parliament. One concerns deficit-funding bonds needed to keep TEPCO and others afloat; the other mandates subsidies for renewable energy projects. It won't be that easy to get either passed, however: Kan's party relies fairly heavily on donations from power company labour unions, the opposition on donations from the said companies.

* Japan has a sophisticated radiation forecasting system that correctly predicted the path of the radiation fallout from planned venting that took place early in the crisis. It now emerges that hundreds of evacuees--mostly children--were given "shelter" in an elementary school ten kilometres from Fukushima Daiichi that was according to the system, right in the path of that fallout. The mayor of the relevant town only learned of the cock-up from watching TV; a day later he organised buses to take these evacuees to another part of the town--which the system correctly predicted was also in the path of the fallout. Why? Because the Nuclear regulator sat on the system's predictions in order to avoid (a) costly evacuations and (b) embarrassing local and central government officials and power company executives. The Prime Minister appears to have been unaware of the system's existence.

* Hearings have started regarding the scandal in which the regulator tried, over some years, to shift public opinion in favour of nuclear power by salting public symposiums with power company employees.

* TEPCO have reported a 7.4 billion USD loss for the quarter April-June.

German gas and electricity supplier E.ON has posted a 2.13 billion USD loss for the quarter and is cutting 11,000 jobs because of the German government's Fukushima-related decision to shut down nuclear plants early.

* Falling beef prices cause by the discovery of contaminated meat has caused Japanese beef giant Agura Bokujo to go bust with debts of 62 billion yen.

* No inshore fishing can be done in Fukushima prefecture. Half of the samples of fish checked by Greenpeace exceeded the Japanese government-set limit of 500 becquerels per kilogram.

* How the nuclear industry is reacting to the public's increasing distrust of the people who make their living from--or plan to make billions out of--nuclear power: here's the mad-eyed John Hutton (ennobled by Tony Blair, and now a UK nuclear industry mouthpiece) explaining how we've got no choice: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/9559767.stm. The relevant BBC News 24 slot is called "Hard Talk". This clip gives you a fair example of just how probing and fearless BBC interviewers are likely to be these days...

* Here, for contrast, is the *totally* impartial Russia Today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WwMISWTy9U

* And last but not least: Fukushima is killing American babies, says Fox News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3oMEqU1oAY


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:47 PM

Unreal stuff! VERY scarey.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:35 PM

News Reports:
1. Metro Tokyo to build gas-fired power plant to combat energy shortage fears.
The plant would be independent of TEPCO.
2. Residents in four prefectures have applied for a temporary court injunction against the restart of seven nuclear reactors in Fukui Prefecture, citing the Fukushima crisis as proof that national safety standards for nuclear plant design are faulty.
The injunction application was filed by residents of Shiga, Kyoto, Osaka and Fukui Prefectures. The reactors, currently shut down for regular safety inspections, are operated by Kansai Electric Power Co.
Mainichi Daily News, Aug. 3, 2011.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 02:22 PM

New reports
1. The government may separate the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry and merge its functions into a new agancy to be created under the Environment Ministry.
[Musical chairs anyone?]
2. NISA Scandal widens to two more Utilities.
A former official of the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency acknowledges that he askes two more power companies to mobilize their employees, in the latest revelations of alleged attempts to manipulate public opinion.

Both from Japan Times, Wed., Aug. 3, 2011.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 03 Aug 11 - 10:07 AM

The MOX plant at Sellafield, a hugely costly and controversial affair from the outset, is to close down as an after effect of the crisis in Japan. Tepco was to take 50% of the plant's fuel output.


Report


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 09:57 PM

Several articles in Japanese papers.
"Safety Agency [NISA] slams Tepco for lax identity checks on nuclear plant workers."
"Time to dismantle dangerous nuclear reactors, scrap nuclear fuel cycle program."
The lead article in the Mainichi Daily News, August 2, 2011.-
"We have proposed that an order of priority for shutting down nuclear plants be set based on their danger, and that the number of such power stations be gradually decreased."
The article points out the unpredictability of disastrous accidents in earthquake prone Japan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 08:32 PM

Here's the whole update from NIRS, August 1, which ordinarily I'd link to but it seems important enough to paste the whole damning thing:

UPDATE, August 1, 2011. Tepco reported today the highest radiation levels yet measured at Fukushima Daiichi—1,000 Rems/hour (10 Sieverts/hour)—a lethal dose. The measurements were taken at the base of the ventilation stack for Units 1 and 2 (the stack that did not work during the accident). The actual levels may have been more than measured, since the monitoring equipment could not measure more than 10 Sieverts/hour. Workers sent to the area to confirm the measurements, which were first picked up by a gamma measuring camera, received doses of about 400 millirems in just a few minutes.

All of this brings up a lot of questions Tepco and the Japanese government must be held to account for. It has been more than four months since the accident began. The belief is that these readings are a result of the failed attempt at ventilation in the early hours of the accident. How is it possible that Tepco is noticing this extraordinarily high reading only now? How many workers have walked by this area in the past four and a half months without realizing the kind of dose they were getting? What does this say about Tepco's, and the government's, overall radiation measurements both onsite and offsite?

Indeed, even while Tepco last week said the continuing releases from Fukushima are only a fraction of what they were in April (one billion becquerels/hour versus one trillion becquerels/hour in April) and far lower than mid-March, Tepco also had to admit that it doesn't actually know how much radiation is being emitted. The utility said it planned to begin tests at Unit 1 over the past weekend to try to find out what is actually being emitted from there, and will begin similar tests at Unit 2 during August. But it doesn't even plan to try tests at Unit 3 because the radiation levels are so high in that reactor.

Given Tepco's and the government's inability to detect lethal levels of radiation onsite—where there are presumably many radiation monitors available—what confidence can anyone have about offsite measurements in Japan? The role of citizen radiation monitoring has never been more crucial. The New York Times today has an article demonstrating this fact. It is the citizen monitors who are finding radioactive hotspots throughout north central Japan, who are demanding evacuations, who are documenting this contamination without end.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:42 PM

Two more items from alt.fan.cecil-adams.

Peter Boulding:

from TV Asahi via http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/07/radiation-in-japan-60-becquerelskg.html

A chicken farmer in Kawamata-machi in Fukushima Prefecture has brought his eggs to a volunteer testing station in Fukushima City. After 20 minutes of testing, 60 becquerels/kg of radioactive cesium is detected from the eggs. Disappointed, the farmer says, "I don't know what to say to my customers. It's much lower than the provisional safety limit in Japan, but if I compare the number to the safety limit in Ukraine it is extraordinary..." The reporter asks the farmer, "What is the safety limit in Ukraine?" 6 becquerels/kg, he tells the reporter."


Les Albert:

Here is one from Sunday's N.Y. Times that I thought you and the
subscribers to your Weekly Reader will enjoy:

http://tinyurl.com/3nafe8c

The lead paragraph is:

IWAKI, Japan ˜ Kiyoko Okoshi had a simple goal when she spent about $625 for a dosimeter: she missed her daughter and grandsons and wanted them to come home. Local officials kept telling her that their remote village was safe, even though it was less than 20 miles from the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. But her daughter remained dubious, especially since no one from the government had taken radiation readings near their home. So starting in April, Mrs. Okoshi began using her dosimeter to check nearby forest roads and rice paddies. What she found was startling. Near one sewage ditch, the meter beeped wildly, and the screen read 67 microsieverts per hour, a potentially harmful level. Mrs. Okoshi and a cousin who lives nearby worked up the courage to confront elected officials, who did not respond, confirming their worry that the government was not doing its job.

The rest of the story (with photos) is interesting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:16 PM

image of two of the hot spots

Not a location I'd think to worry about - some way up a nondescript piece of external pipework or framing. But stand next to it for a few minutes and you're dead.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:15 PM

6 INCHES IS BULL SHIT. IT WAS 10 INCHES, GO LOOK FOR YOURSELF.


;?I


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 07:08 PM

Peter-

There are very troublesome reports of "very hot spots" in and around the vents. Clearly, TEPCO is egregiously (if not criminally) slow in monitoring the impact of the initial explosions.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 06:51 PM

NASA
Day shortened by 1.8 microseaonds (roughly one millionth of a second. Earth axis shifted 6.5 inches.
Richard Gross of the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory said these changes happen all the time. Over the course of a year, day length changes about one millisecond, about 550 times the change caused by the Japanese quake.
The position of the axis changes about 3.3 feet over the course of a year.
USA Today, Science Fair, March 2011.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 05:12 PM

The days are still a tenth of a second longer and the axis of the Earth shifted 10 inches due to the 9.0 earthquake that began this disaster.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 02 Aug 11 - 10:32 AM

A bit more on exposure: TEPCO has found a number of spots on the Fukushima site where radiation levels reach 10 Sievert per hour (which is the maximum reading on equipment used, levels may actually be higher). A level lethal even after a short exposure.

Report


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 08:26 PM

North Korea is on the verge of starvation again I have read. WOuld it be more dangerous to give them contanminated (slightly) beef and chickens and perhaps many would not starve..or let them starve but spare them radiation? I think I personally would want the food...they probably aren't allowed to pass it on but think if you were starving (and my family has not gotten over the potato famine yet) and saw the neighboring country killing their livestock. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 07:06 PM

Charley... as I posted earlier, my old man told me smoking does not CAUSE cancer. Is is a catylist... a "medium"... it provides the "vehicle" for radiation to cause cancer.

Something else... thread drift... the tobacco companies, government and medical community like to push this "smoking causes cancer" theory because it cannot be proven on an individual basis. Thereby, they continue to make money and tobacco will never be outlawed. If the anti-tobacco lot went after the emphysema (COPD is the new catch phrase as it sounds less scarey) connection they would get far better results. But, THAT ain't gonna happen because tobacco, government and the medical community make a shitload of money off the "cancer" aspect. Sorry for the thread drift. Just a pet peeve of mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 06:42 PM

From Peter Boulding in alt.fan.cecil-adams on Usenet:

Time for an update, one would have thought... but it's getting more and more difficult to find out what the Hell's going on at Fukushima Daiichi.

I haven't even managed to learn whether they've finally installed their plastic, steel-framed tent around the remains of reactor building #1 (the only images on the web are computerised artists' impressions), although I did find a piece about ten days ago to the effect that TEPCO are starting work on one for reactor building #3... in a rush, because the typhoon season has begun. (What about reactor building #4?)

As far as I can gather Areva's cobbled-together water filtration/recycling system isn't keeping pace thanks to (a) torrential rains; (b) continued inability to operate the system at above 70% of design capacity--at best; (c) inability to pump cooling water straight onto the cores: we've learned recently that they're only able to pour water onto the metal shrouds that surround the cores; and (d) the fact that the containment vessel of reactor #3 is full of holes and requires far more water to keep the temperature down to boiling point than the other two melted-down cores. (It would be #3, wouldn't it? That's the one that has plutonium mixed in with the uranium.)

So there are now more than 120,000 tons of highly contaminated water on site and they're almost out of capacity store any more. Toshiba are apparently trying to build another filtration system, but one wonders whether the contaminated seas problem might be about to get a great deal worse.

Meanwhile the temperature of the #4 spent fuel storage tank is still too high; it is, along with the three melted-down reactors, continually leaking radioactive water vapour into the atmosphere.

It took a while to find out even that--mostly from a single, maybe unreliable, source. The papers have covered the Prime Minster's anger at the government regulator's crude and dishonest attempts to manipulate public opinion, while the IAEA is cross with TEPCO for not having been more open. Otherwise it's just local/personalised stories about contaminated meat, contaminated fish, contaminated eggs, contaminated children, and the amount of sewage sludge that nobody knows where to store, because it's too radioactive to bury.

Russia Today (Russian English language TV), which is less inclined to keep quiet than the Western Media, says the Japanese people are complaining more and more vociferously about the lack of info and deliberate playing down--by TEPCO, by the regulator and by the government--of the continuing seriousness of the crisis.

The IAEA hasn't posted any new info on its web site all month.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 02:42 PM

Yes, one of our good friends was a plant operator at the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant for about ten years. He quit after Three Mile Island but not before being exposed to low level radiation. He was not a smoker but he died of lung cancer a few years ago, and I still miss him.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 02:34 PM

Yes, Q. It's bad shit. The "safe" levels are not all that safe... merely "acceptable" as a management tool.

And there's a lot more of it in our daily lives than yer average person knows about. Not just from nuke fuels.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM

Mainichi Daily News, July 31, 2011.

"Nuclear plant workers developed cancer despite lower radiation exposure than legal limit."
Of 10 nuclear plant workers who have developed cancer and received workers compensation, nine had been exposed to less than 100 millisieverts of radiation. During the emergency, the limit was raised to 250 millisieverts.
Six had leukemia, two multiple myeloma and two lymphatic malignancy.
The tenth had received 129.8 millisieverts.

More disturbing was that monitoring databooks had been "corrected and stamped with personal seals."
One book checked had a false report saying the worker was taking nuclear safety education when he actually was in hospital for leukemia treatment. This worker, dead of leukemia at age 29, was at the Hamaoka Power Plant, operated by Chibu Electric Power Co.; he received 50.63 millisieverts over a period of eight years and 10 months.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 09:43 AM

Tsunami warnings were cancelled later in the day.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 31 Jul 11 - 05:45 AM

6.4 magnitude earthquake reported off the coast of Honsu/Fukushima at a depth of 40 km. No reports of new damage to the Fukushima reactors.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:45 PM

Power companies generation figures called into question amid push for reactor restarts.
Suggestions have arisen that power companies are underestimating their generating capacity in a push to restart reactors.
An article in the Mainichi Daily News today (July 27) questions the low power generation figures put forth by the companies, especially the figures for electrical power, which some experts say is sufficient to cover the losses from closed reactors.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/20110726p2a00m0na004000c.html
----------------------------------

South Korean industrial knowhow is as strong as that of any of the countries in the west.
Don't know about India, but recent reports and analyses suggest that it will be an industrial giant before very long.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:47 PM

India and South Korea are selling reactors? Good lord.

Hey... buddy... I've got a good deal for you...

Sweet JAYSUS! I wonder if Walmart will get in on this.


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