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BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Q (Frank Staplin) 09 May 11 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,mg 09 May 11 - 01:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 09 May 11 - 01:16 PM
gnu 09 May 11 - 12:34 PM
gnu 09 May 11 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,mg 08 May 11 - 02:22 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 08 May 11 - 01:51 PM
gnu 08 May 11 - 01:29 PM
Charley Noble 08 May 11 - 12:25 PM
gnu 08 May 11 - 09:58 AM
Charley Noble 07 May 11 - 08:57 PM
gnu 07 May 11 - 07:17 PM
gnu 07 May 11 - 06:59 PM
GUEST,mg 07 May 11 - 06:54 PM
Charley Noble 07 May 11 - 06:27 PM
gnu 07 May 11 - 01:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 May 11 - 01:20 PM
Charley Noble 06 May 11 - 08:43 PM
gnu 06 May 11 - 06:26 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 06 May 11 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,Jim Martin 06 May 11 - 08:58 AM
GUEST,mg 05 May 11 - 04:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 May 11 - 03:33 PM
Jack Campin 05 May 11 - 01:38 PM
Donuel 05 May 11 - 01:00 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 May 11 - 12:49 PM
Charley Noble 05 May 11 - 12:46 PM
Donuel 05 May 11 - 07:52 AM
Charley Noble 05 May 11 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 05 May 11 - 05:53 AM
gnu 04 May 11 - 02:30 PM
Donuel 04 May 11 - 01:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 May 11 - 12:58 PM
Charley Noble 04 May 11 - 09:15 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 04 May 11 - 06:42 AM
Charley Noble 03 May 11 - 03:57 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 May 11 - 02:14 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 May 11 - 01:58 PM
Charley Noble 03 May 11 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,mg 03 May 11 - 12:41 PM
Charley Noble 03 May 11 - 07:53 AM
Jack Campin 02 May 11 - 09:09 PM
Charley Noble 02 May 11 - 07:51 PM
gnu 02 May 11 - 07:11 PM
GUEST,mg 02 May 11 - 03:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 May 11 - 02:23 PM
Bill D 02 May 11 - 01:22 PM
GUEST,mg 02 May 11 - 01:12 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 May 11 - 12:48 PM
mg 02 May 11 - 11:08 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 11 - 02:50 PM

"Calls to unify the nation's power network under a single frequency remain strong. But doing so would require a major infrastructure overhaul, including facility upgrades and land purchases- that would cost up to tens of trillions of yen, according to experts."

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20110424dy02.htm

The split between 50Hz (eastern Japan) and 60 Hz (western) dates back to before 1912; the old ancestor of Tepco chose the German 50Hz and the ancestor of Kansai chose U. S. 60Hz.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 May 11 - 01:22 PM

One often reported problem is that the electrical grids betweent the east and west parts of Japan are not compatible and you can't transfer electricity easily. Why was that tolerated? Why do we not hear of efforts to remedy that now? Japan has huge geomthermal potential, huge wind potential, and is a leader in some of the technology, probably modest solar, huge tidal. They have an educated and hard-working population, admittedly many past their working prime. What they have somehow ended up with is a government that does not seem to function and an electrical company that functions as a government, ending up doing things iwth international implications, none of which are good. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 May 11 - 01:16 PM

Radiation level in No. 1 reactor building at Fukushima stands at up to 700 millisieverts; shielding is required, but Tepco does not believe that will delay work. Workers are restricted to 20 minutes in the most contaminated areas. Japan Times, Monday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 11 - 12:34 PM

NHK...

Concern is growing that Chubu Electric Power Company's suspension of the Hamaoka nuclear power plant would affect Japanese manufacturing companies with plants in regions where the utility supplies electricity.

Chubu Electric Power Company supplies electricity for prefectures such as Aichi, Mie, Gifu and Shizuoka.

Automakers in those prefectures are concerned that cutting their power use will negatively affect production levels. Toyota Motor has 9 assembly plants in Aichi, Mie and Gifu. Other car makers such as Honda, Suzuki and Mitsubishi also have plants in the region.

The utility's nuclear power plant suspension was announced on the same day as Honda started producing a new model in Mie Prefecture.
Honda originally intended to produce the new model at a plant in Saitama Prefecture just outside Tokyo. Mie Prefecture was chosen instead to avoid power shortages expected in and outside Tokyo due to the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

Honda's output has fallen to about half its usual level as the March 11th earthquake and tsunami disrupted supplies of parts.

Honda says it will have to revise production and sales plans if asked to significantly cut its power use during the summer.

Suzuki has a main production plant in Shizuoka Prefecture, where the Hamaoka plant is located.
The car manufacturer intends to come up with measures to address possible power shortages.

Electronics makers with plants are also located in the region covered by Chubu Electric Power Company. Toshiba and Fujitsu have large factories making semiconductors in Mie Prefecture. Panasonic has a plant for producing ventilators in Aichi Prefecture. Another in Shizuoka Prefecture is for washing machines and other products.

Monday, May 09, 2011 20:06 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 09 May 11 - 12:32 PM

NHK...

Chubu Electric Power Company has agreed to a request from the Prime Minister to suspend operations at two reactors at its Hamaoka nuclear power plant.

The utility decided at a board of directors meeting on Monday afternoon to halt operations within a few days at Reactors Number 4 and 5 at the Hamaoka complex in Shizuoka Prefecture.

Monday's agreement comes in response to a request made by Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Friday to suspend operations of the active reactors at the complex until new earthquake-resistance work is completed. The Hamaoka plant is located about 200 kilometers west of Tokyo.
With the decision to halt operations at Reactors Number 4 and 5, all five of the plant's reactors will be shut down.
Reactors Number 1 and 2 have been shut down for decommissioning, and Reactor Number 3 is undergoing regular inspections.

After the board meeting, Chubu Electric President Akihisa Mizuno said the utility has yet to find a replacement source of power for the suspended Hamaoka plant.

He said Chubu has canceled plans to supply surplus electricity to the northern part of Japan. Tokyo Electric Power Company is a major power supplier to the area, but TEPCO is also expecting summer power shortages due to the nuclear plant accident.

Mizuno said the suspension of the Hamaoka plant represents a fresh burden for Chubu Electric, and that although the company will do its utmost to make its management more efficient, it will have to ask the government for assistance. He said the utility cannot ask its clients or shareholders to take on an undue burden.

The Hamaoka nuclear power complex is located directly above the projected focus of a magnitude eight class earthquake that experts have long predicted.

Monday, May 09, 2011 20:12 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 08 May 11 - 02:22 PM

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Will-Fukushima-Trigger-the-Changes-Japan-Has-Been-Waiting-For.html

Recaps some of the ties and corruption and incompetence built into system and says it is time for reform. Do you think so? One huge problem is the aging of the population who might not be up for it. What are they doing to actively repress other energy solutions such as wind? I read they were only going to use 5 or 10 percent of the available..not potential..available...wind energy due to some technical issue, w hich I am not convinced they did not make up but I don't know. Can others check into this. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 11 - 01:51 PM

Chibu Electric has postponed decision on whether to close Hamaoka for installation of safety measures against quake/tsunami. They have sent representatives to Qatar to see about purchase of LNG to help with power shortfall, and the possibility of re-opening its old, closed thermal plants.

Chibu says Prime Minister Kan's request for closure for upgrade has no legal standing.
"The utility is also examining if it can be held responsible by shareholders if its earnings suffer after accepting the government's request, which is not enforceable under current law,..."

A government spokesman asked Chibu to act on its request, and emphasized that it had no intention of closing other nuclear plants and was committed to nuclear power.
Brief extracts from-
Japan Times, Sunday, May 8, 2011.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 08 May 11 - 01:29 PM

Jesus Christ on a CRUTCH! And that only goes back to 3 Mile!


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 May 11 - 12:25 PM

Here's an interesting overview of how nuclear power plants in the States have malfunctioned from the New York Times: click here for overview!

Enjoy!
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 08 May 11 - 09:58 AM

Or drops a load of TNT on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 May 11 - 08:57 PM

gnu-

We wish them well in their mission. But I doubt that wishes will provide them as much protection as they will need. Even if "the density of radioactive material in the air had fallen to about 10 percent the target level" there is still the danger of incidental exposure to some hot spot or other. The workers doing this job are incredibly brave and willing to sacrifice their lives for the good of their country. I doubt if many will survive another ten years. So it goes with nuclear power gone bad.

Oh, with regard to the Rad-Alert, we have it set for alarm about 20 times background but we hardly ever look at it. There was a period where we had a monitoring network around the Maine Yankee nuclear power plant where we had continuous printouts but no one is doing that any more. Dry cask storage is boring to monitor, unless someone crashes an airliner into the middle of it.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 07 May 11 - 07:17 PM

NHK...

The Tokyo Electric Power Company is preparing to open the doors of the Number 1 reactor building at the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
The move is necessary to restore the reactor's cooling system and may take place as early as Sunday afternoon.

TEPCO says a small amount of radioactive substances are expected to be released into the air for about one hour.

The company says it will first obtain approval from the government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency and confirm that there will be very little impact on the surrounding environment. Then it will open the two-tired doors of the reactor building.

On Thursday, TEPCO activated a new air-filtering system in the Number 1 Reactor building, which was installed to remove radioactive substances.

The utility says that by early Saturday morning, the density of radioactive material in the air had fallen to about 10 percent the target level.

TEPCO says after opening the doors, possibly on Sunday afternoon, it plans to remove highly radioactive contaminated debris.

Then, workers will enter the building to begin restoring the Number 1 Reactor cooling system.

Sunday, May 08, 2011 01:25 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 07 May 11 - 06:59 PM

Charley... are you monitoring radiation on a daily basis?


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 07 May 11 - 06:54 PM

Don't let them get by with oh we overlooked checking out the health of the workers in the plant. This was deliberately avoided for financial or legal reasons or callous disregard for those they considered expendable. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 May 11 - 06:27 PM

Niece and her accessories checked out within the normal background radiation of our back porch. We did have to destroy some of the treats she brought back with her from Japan. She was there for about a week visiting a good friend and her family but is planning to return in a month or so and teach English south of Kyoto for at least a year.

Our old nuclear radiation monitoring unit, purchased in 1997, is a Radalert, manufactured in the USA buy International Mecom; it detects alpha, beta, gamma and X radiation. You can purchase a newer upgraded one for about $500.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 07 May 11 - 01:40 PM

"radiation monitoring equipment"

Pray tell of this equipment.

Dad used to bring home rocks from the cobalt fields in Ontario and a Geiger counter, get me to hide them in the house and he would find them. I was fascinated as a boy of four or so.

Dad and the lads used to have their film tags read every day before leaving the base (CFB Trenton). When they got close to the weekly limit, they would leave the the tags in their desks at the base before going to *****. Everyone who worked on his team died of cancer which began in the upper femurs. Nuclear warfare is dangerous business.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 May 11 - 01:20 PM

Chibu Electric says it will not implement the suspension of the Hamaoka reactors, as requested by Prime Minister Kan, "while it weighs the consequences."
Japan Times, Saturday, May 7, 2011.

"800 nuke plant workers get belated health checkups."
They have spent more than a month battling the nuclear emergency at Fukushima No. 1 plant (Daiichi).
"Exams for 30 irradiated above 100-millisievert precrisis limit neglected at Fukushima No. 1."
Japan Times, May 7, 2011.

"In Search of a nuclear disposal site."
"Roughly 300 km NW of Finland's capital, Helsinki, is the island of Olkiluoto, home to two nuclear power plants and the potential site for one of the world's first permanent underground high-level waste repositories."
A blueprint diagram shows the proposed layout, some several hundred meters underground.
Japan Times, May 7, 2011.
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110507f1.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 May 11 - 08:43 PM

On a personal note Judy and I will be meeting tomorrow with one of our favorite nieces who just paid a visit to one of her good friends in Northwestern Japan. She had studied there a year on full scholarship and now speaks Japanese well enough to bluff her way through ten minutes of conversation with native speakers. She's part Native-American with some Asian characteristics and a slight build, which helps her blend in with the crowd.

She and her mother want us to check her out with our radiation monitoring equipment (left over from our more activist days). However, she probably picked up more radiation flying and going through security checks than she encountered in one week in Japan. We made our arguments for postponing the visit but she really wanted to see her friend and she plans to teach English there next year.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 06 May 11 - 06:26 PM

Well, whaddya do? Screw up 16M people and their industry in the meantime? What will happen to some of those people?... to Toyata and others? It ain't an easy situation to mitigate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 May 11 - 01:35 PM

Hamaoka plant- BBC story incomplete and not accurate?

Japan has urged Chubu Electric (the operator, not Tepco) to suspend all 3 reactors while a seawall and other structures are built to ensure a major earthquake/tsunami does not cause a second radiation crisis.
Chubu said it will "swiftly consider" the government's request.
Chubu has drawn up safety measures including a seawall 1.5 km long over the next 2-3 years. [12 meters height, T. Yamada, Chubu official]. Also planned are concrete walls along 18 water pumps to protect the pumps from damage, to take 1-1 1/2 years to construct.
The plant has no barrier now but sandhills between the ocean and the plant are c. 10-15 meters high, according to the company.

"Trade Minister Banni Kaieda said the utility should halt operating its nuclear reactors while implementing such safety measures. He argued Chubu's safety measures were "not enough" without elaborating further."
"Until the company completes safety steps, it is inevitable that it should stop operating nuclear reactors," Kaieda said.

The plant provides power to 16 million people. TOYOTA headquarters plant and other automakers would be affected.

Associated Press, May 6, 2011, Shino Yuasa.

Note- This will be the subject of back-and-forth argument for some time before implementation !
The government request does not mean immediate stoppage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 06 May 11 - 08:58 AM

Another nuclear plant Hamaoka)to close:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13306358


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 May 11 - 04:51 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703849204576302763991781504.html

Yesterday was the first time I saw any official concern or notice about this. To have to wait almost two months, if this is so, for boxed lumches is totally unnecessary and inexcuseable. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 11 - 03:33 PM

The iodine-131 detected in Glasgow, and all other recording sites mentioned is minute and should pose no risk.
A panel of University of Maryland nuclear experts say the U. S. is safe from radiation leaking out of Fukushima. Also no risk from that detected in Massachusetts rainfall. West coast report posted here some time ago.
Various reports on the net.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 May 11 - 01:38 PM

Fukushima radiation has been found in Scotland:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-13284984


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 11 - 01:00 PM

Elements from Fukushima has been found in milk as far away as Maryland.

Hawaii and Alaska have the most Fukushima radiation in their food followed by the NW states.

They do not want Washingtom apples to be shummed by the market.
The same goes for California wines and produce.

What should they do? Tell the truth?

Of course they will down play away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 May 11 - 12:49 PM

Digression-
Some good news for Japan's industry:

Mayor Bloomberg selects Nissan minivan to be New York's next Yellow Cabs.
The vehicle is estimated to average 25 mpg and will cost c. $29,000 (order will eventually total more than $1 billion.
The vehicle can be converted to electrical energy in the future.
It will be manufactured in Mexico, with some final touches in the U. S.
? New York energy sources.
Nuclear- 26-33% (depending on source information)
[Natural Gas- 26%
[Petroleum- 2%
Hydro- 17%
Imported- 14% (Quebec, Ontario, New England)
Coal- 12%
Figures from Cornell University, Wind energy report.
What is the advantage of electrical vehicles if the energy green footprint is not reduced?
Partial answers (apart from efficiency of new vehicles)- Less air pollution in NYC.
Con- energy required in manufacture (unless older vehicles only retired after they are worn out).


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 May 11 - 12:46 PM

Maybe it's time to re-examine our assumptions about the impact of the Fukushima-1 disaster. Here's a link to one of the major long-time critics, Karl Grossman, of the nuclear industry: click here!

I tend to agree that the media coverage of this disaster has been totally inadequate, and given the attention span of the media, and the general public, they've refocused on hotter topics.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 11 - 07:52 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZmmSSwtuS0

Note there are no special foods or substances you can eat that will protect you from injesting radioactive particles in food.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 May 11 - 07:49 AM

Here's another aerial view of the entire Fukushima-1 nuclear complex: click here for image!

There are also diagrams that clarify the position of the reactors, the tunnels, and trenches that have come up for discussion.

In my mind I've evidently had the relative positions of reactor units 1-4 reversed with regard to their proximity to the bay. And I was never quite sure where reactor units 5 and 6 were.

So the workers enter Unit-1 in teams for 10 minutes each. Does this mean they return for another 10-minute shift? If so, what is the logic of that in terms of limiting their exposure?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 05 May 11 - 05:53 AM

Workers enter No.1 reactor building:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13289877


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 04 May 11 - 02:30 PM

Ya know... we all would like this mess cleaned up yesterday, but I gotta say, the poor bastards IN CHARGE of trying to bring things under control must be in a living hell. To quote David Letterman, "I wouldn't give their troubles to a monkey on a rock."


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:34 PM

The high sea floor reading may be evidence that the exlosion at #3 blew MOX fuel far from the plant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:58 PM

The Guardian article covers much the same ground as Japanese press reports, but adds the parents protest, which I haven't seen in the Japan Times.
The JP does have a section called "Views from the Street." The question today was "Do you think the Government should take over TEPCO? The respondants said yes, but government mishandling was also mentioned.

TEPCO reports that their workers are preparing to enter the No. 1 reactor building at Fukushima for the first time since it was wrecked by a hydrogen blast the day following the quake/tsunami.
The air must be filtered first. TEPCO is setting up a ventilation system inside with oxygen cylinders and erecting a tentlike structure at the double-door entrance with higher air pressure than in the reactor building to prevent radioactive materials from leaking outside.
The company then plans to set up air coolers outside the reactor building to cool the water filling the containment vessel of the reactor(replacement for the one that went down furing the tsunami.
If the new cooling system works, TEPCO said the temperature in the reactor will drop to under 100 C., achieving cold shutdown, within several days. [Boldface mine]

Seabed samples from 15-20 km north of the plant showed high levels of radioactivity. A similar amouts was found 20 km south of the plant.
Greenpeace has sttarted to take readings outside Japan's 12 mile territorial waters.

{The high seabed readings are not good; the life cycle and food use of organisms dependent on a food chain based on bottom dwelling/feeding organisms will be affected, and the effects passed on to pelagic/marine dwellers.}


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:15 AM

Yes, children and younger infants are those most vulnerable to radiation exposure. And if the radiation is on a school playground they would be exposed to it 5 days a week, increasing their inventory throughout the year.

Do the math!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 04 May 11 - 06:42 AM

Parents protest about radioactive playgrounds:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/parents-revolt-radiation-levels?INTCMP=SRCH


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 May 11 - 03:57 PM

Yetch!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 May 11 - 02:14 PM

That post based on a Japan Times report, May 3, 2011.

Another report-
Japan Times, May 4, 2011

"Utilities Get 68 Ex-bureaucrats Via 'Amakudari'."
The past 50 years have seen 68 former elite bureaucrats parachuting into top positions at the nation's 12 electricity suppliers after retiring from the Ministry, Trade and Industry, including five who landed at TEPCO.
At present, 13 retired career-track METI bureaucrats hold senior positions at electric power companies under the practice of "amakudari" (descent from heaven).
METI, which oversees 10 electric utilities and two electricity wholesalers, investigated the matter after the crisis at TEPCO's Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant fueled criticism of the practice.
"....creates "cosy, corrupt relations" and "slack supervision."

So much for Japan's perceived efficiency in industry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:58 PM

One reason why some information about the status of the reactors is incomplete and confused-

"Power Cut Doomed Fallout Computer"
"The nation's system (Emergency Response Support System) for predicting the volume of radioactive materials to be released to the environment failed amid the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima No. 1 (Daiichi) power poant due to the power supply cut following the March 11 earthquake and tsunami..."
"The malfunction of the ERSS, coupled with "insufficiencies" attributed to SPEEDI, the System for Prediction of EnvironmentalEmergency Dose Information, which projects the dispersal of radioactive fallout based on ERSS forecasts, is likely to have delayed the evacuation of Fukushima residents.
"Japan sent SPEEDI data to the U. N. but withheld it from the public."
"The failure of the 28 billion yen systems casts further doubts on Japan's disaster-prevention policy."
ERSS is managed by the Japan Nuclear Energy Safety Organization, under the supervision of the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.

The system is "still unable to collect any data on reactors No. 1 to No. 5."

Too many bureaucratic layers breed failure to respond to emergencies and to pass on critical information to the public.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 May 11 - 01:42 PM

mg-

An interesting article on the Japanese nuclear power experience from a Japanese point of view.

Note to posters: please provide a short summary of the articles you link to.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:41 PM

from japan

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/japan/110501/opinion-japan-nuclear?page=0,1


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:53 AM

Jack-

There has been a lot of confusion generated in press releases by references to "intakes" and "outflows." It's never totally clear from translation if the correct term is being used.

It's also likely that some parts of the spent fuel rods which were blasted apart in the explosion at Reaction Unit 3 ended up in the bay. But one would think the readings would be more consistent. Lord knows who systematically they have been monitoring radiation, and what forms of radiation.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:09 PM

If it's at the *intake* then presumably reactor 2 itself can't be responsible.

A lump of hot debris on the seafloor from one of the other reactors, maybe?


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 May 11 - 07:51 PM

Gnu-

"130 becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per cubic centimeter in samples collected near the water intake for the Number 2"

I was thinking that that one was supposed to be coasting to cold shutdown. Unit 2, I believe, was one of the reactor building which had suffered the least damage in the hydrogen explosions in the row of four reactor buildings.

I wonder what is going on.

It's so hard for even experts to figure out what is going on at these reactors and spent fuel pools when readings fluctuate so erratically.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 11 - 07:11 PM

Charley... another one for you... NHK...

Some of the shareholders of a Japanese electric power company say they want the utility to close its nuclear power plants.

On Monday, a group of 232 individual stockholders of Tohoku Electric Power Company submitted the documents needed for their proposal to scrap its nuclear power plants.

The proposal is expected to be put to a vote in an annual shareholders' meeting at the end of next month.

Tohoku Electric Power has 2 nuclear power plants in Japan's northeastern region, one in Higashidori Village in Aomori Prefecture and another in Onagawa Town in Miyagi Prefecture.

The group is also calling for the company to end its investment in spent nuclear fuel reprocessing businesses, including a reprocessing plant at Rokkasho Village in Aomori Prefecture.

The group representative, Hironori Shinohara, noted the moves by power companies to introduce additional safety measures following the nuclear emergency involving Tokyo Electric Power Company. But he said accidents never happen under the same scenarios, and stressed the importance of shutting down the nuclear plants.

An official of Tohoku Electric Power said the company takes the disaster facing TEPCO extremely seriously. The official said Tohoku Electric will examine the proposal and submit it to the shareholders' meeting along with comments from board members.

Monday, May 02, 2011 20:15 +0900 (JST)

Not so good...

The operator of the troubled Fukushima nuclear power plant says it has detected higher levels of radioactive materials in seawater samples from near the water intake at one of the reactors.

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it detected 130 becquerels of radioactive iodine-131 per cubic centimeter in samples collected near the water intake for the Number 2 reactor on Saturday. The figure is 3,300 times the national limit and 30 percent higher than the level detected on Friday.

It's the same site where iodine-131 at a level 7.5 million times the limit was detected on April 2nd. TEPCO says it detected radioactive cesium-134 at 120 times the limit and cesium-137 at 81 times the limit at the same place on Saturday. But the readings taken for these 2 substances were down for the third straight day.

There was a 90 percent drop in levels of iodine and cesium to the south of water intakes for reactors 1 through to 4.

The level of highly radioactive water in the sea rose to three to four times the level of the previous day along the coast 10 kilometers south of the power plant.

TEPCO says it's continuing to monitor the level, though there has not been a fresh leak of highly contaminated water.

Monday, May 02, 2011 05:45 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 May 11 - 03:07 PM

it is not a joke...they are young and misheard. that is what they called it when we evacuated for one here. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 May 11 - 02:23 PM

They have salami races in skiing ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Bill D
Date: 02 May 11 - 01:22 PM

"...they call them salamis...."

They do? I don't get the joke....


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 02 May 11 - 01:12 PM

They know and they know about tsunamis too except they call them salamis. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 May 11 - 12:48 PM

U. S. doctors, "Social Responsibility," a non-profit organization of docters, condemns the limits on radiation set by the government for playgrounds at schools as being too high. They are joined by Toshiso Kosako, University of Tokyo professor, who said he would step down as an advisor to Prine Minister Kan in protest.
The U. S. group said any exposure, including background,can be a danger to children, and fetuses are even more vulnerable.
Japan Times, May 3, 2011.

Schools on the west coast of the U. S. might teach about the dangers of a large earthquake, but most children would be only remotely aware, if at all, of what earthquakes could do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: mg
Date: 02 May 11 - 11:08 AM

Well of course the government should have equally forseen it, since any schoolchild here on the opposite side of the ocean hears about the big one, 9.0 or greater, all the time. Don't let anyone get buy with oh gee we did not see this one coming. it is because we are either too ignorant or too lackadasical to do anything about it. mg


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