mudcat.org: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafeawe

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38]


BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Jul 11 - 01:45 PM
gnu 26 Jul 11 - 01:37 PM
Charley Noble 26 Jul 11 - 01:04 PM
gnu 23 Jul 11 - 06:33 PM
Mrrzy 23 Jul 11 - 10:49 AM
gnu 22 Jul 11 - 12:48 PM
Charley Noble 22 Jul 11 - 09:42 AM
Donuel 22 Jul 11 - 08:35 AM
Jim Martin 22 Jul 11 - 08:00 AM
maeve 19 Jul 11 - 05:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM
gnu 19 Jul 11 - 03:40 PM
gnu 19 Jul 11 - 03:21 PM
Charley Noble 18 Jul 11 - 07:54 PM
gnu 18 Jul 11 - 07:16 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Jul 11 - 07:04 PM
gnu 18 Jul 11 - 04:45 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 18 Jul 11 - 04:34 PM
Charley Noble 18 Jul 11 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 18 Jul 11 - 05:53 AM
Charley Noble 17 Jul 11 - 11:26 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Jul 11 - 08:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM
Charley Noble 16 Jul 11 - 10:18 PM
mg 16 Jul 11 - 09:24 PM
gnu 16 Jul 11 - 03:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Jul 11 - 03:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Jul 11 - 03:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Jul 11 - 02:25 PM
Donuel 16 Jul 11 - 12:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Jul 11 - 02:21 PM
Charley Noble 15 Jul 11 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 15 Jul 11 - 07:28 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Jul 11 - 08:37 PM
Charley Noble 14 Jul 11 - 06:48 PM
gnu 14 Jul 11 - 06:13 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Jul 11 - 05:24 PM
gnu 14 Jul 11 - 03:40 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Jul 11 - 02:54 PM
gnu 14 Jul 11 - 02:25 PM
mg 13 Jul 11 - 11:05 PM
Charley Noble 13 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM
gnu 13 Jul 11 - 07:17 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Jul 11 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,mg 13 Jul 11 - 05:09 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 13 Jul 11 - 03:59 PM
Jack Campin 13 Jul 11 - 10:54 AM
Charley Noble 10 Jul 11 - 03:08 PM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:45 PM

India will soon join South Korea, France and other nations selling reactors. India currently has two models on offer.
Congressional Research Service [U.S.]
CSIS (Center for Stratigraphic & International Studies). Nuclear Power Corp. of India Chairman Bannerjee, "ready to offer Indian PHWRs of 220 MWe or 540 MWe for export."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:37 PM

Have a nice day... I have other plans, thanks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 01:04 PM

Here's an update from July 19 (NIRS) which provides a sobering summary of what's been achieved in terms of stabilizing conditions at the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex:

Meanwhile, Tepco says it has achieved "stable cooling" of all of the reactors at the site. This might sound like good news until it is realized that Tepco does not mean the reactors are at cold shutdown. In fact, all 3 reactors with fuel in them remain above the boiling point of 100 degrees Centigrade, meaning that water continues to boil off and radiation continues to be released. Cold shutdown—bringing the temperatures below 100 degrees—is still not expected before January 2012. What Tepco really means is that it has more or less successfully set up a system for water to be recirculated through the reactors, so that constant water from outside is no longer needed. However, the recirculation system has been plagued with problems from the beginning and continues to not work at desired capacity.

That is not the case for the Unit 4 fuel pool, which continues to receive water from outside. Temperature in the pool is said to be below boiling, at 80 degrees Centigrade.

Have a nice day!
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:33 PM

Mrrzy?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 10:49 AM

Let's not forget this tragedy in the face of the next, more fashionable one in Europe.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 12:48 PM

Don... I assume the big bucks don't want to panic people. Even tho the flow of seabourne and airbourne radioactive material is cause for at least a mild panic attack. I am washing my Washington grown cherries individually rather than just rinsing them in a bowl.

Hmmmm... I wonder when the crude will wash ashore in Briton? or the wars BP has recently started will end? or.... sighhhh.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 09:42 AM

Jim-

And when do you suppose the NRC will order an 18m sea-wall built at the two Californian coastal nuclear power plants?

With increased global warming, waiting for Hell to freeze over is not an option.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 08:35 AM

This is a report of the cavalier manner in which CNN covers the continuing Fukushima disaster.

First they mention it less than twice a week on average.

Second when they do have a report the way it is presented is unexcusable. The female talking head delivers a report of recalling some Beef products from Japan due to radiation, and then the reported said "stretch" and gesticulated a sleepy morning stretch and a decided bored behavior.
What is said is nearly as crucial as how it is said. The cable news coverage of this immense disaster is treated like a puff piece.

While radioactie debris and nuke plant waste water travels east 100 miles a day toward Hawaii and eventually the west coast of the USA, the inevitability of it all is deliberately treated with inattention and crass bordom.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jim Martin
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 08:00 AM

Hamaoka to have 18m sea-wall built:

http://newsblogged.com/fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-reactor-latest-news-real-time-updates


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: maeve
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 05:31 PM

Thanks, all, for the continued supply of information.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM

The Mainichi Daily News calls it an "updated work schedule." It does not add much to the previous announcement.
"Cooling operations have been stabilized" and "the risk of hydrogen explosions has been eliminated."
"We are starting to see a tremendous critical condition heading toward a certain level of settlement."
Cold shutdown, scheduled for January, may be moved up so that people forced to evacuate can return home.
"Workers have now succeeded in instaling devices to remove radioactive substances from the polluted water and recycle the decontaminated water to cool the crippled Nos. 1 to 3 reactors [at Fukushima]."
At No. 4 unit, all of its fuel rods had been stored in the spent fuel pool, and "work is proceeding to create a system involving a heat exchange device to stably and efficiently cool the water inside the pool."
Manichi Daily News comments that the decontamination system was operating only at 73% efficiency.
"Tepco would consider creating an underground "shielding wall" to surround the reactor turbine buildings so as to prevent contaminated water seeping from the buildings and getting mixedin with groundwater."

We hope that the goals are accomplished, but outside nuclear agencies are not entirely convinced.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 03:40 PM

NHK...

The Japanese government has announced new stages of a plan to bring the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant under control.

The announcement came at a meeting of the government's nuclear disaster taskforce attended by all Cabinet ministers on Tuesday evening.

The taskforce said the first stage of the plan outlined in mid-April for the stable cooling of the reactors has been completed on schedule by mid-July. It added radiation levels in the plant's surrounding areas have been steadily reduced.

The meeting approved a renewed plan, including the second stage to be completed by next January, and mid-term targets to be achieved within about three years after that.

Under the renewed plan, the government will carry out regular health checks for about 30 years on residents in Fukushima Prefecture, where the plant is located. The checks will include thyroid cancer screening tests for children, the estimate survey of external exposure, and the measurement of internal exposure.

The government will also start a safety assessment of radiation levels in the evacuation advisory zone around the plant, in an aim to lift the advisories currently in place there.

As for the evacuation zone and the 20-kilometer no-entry zone, the government will start monitoring radiation levels earlier than planned. The government will start lifting its evacuation orders for areas where safety has been confirmed, after the plan's second stage is achieved by next January.

Also on Tuesday, the government and Tokyo Electric Company formally announced that the target of the first stage to steadily reduce radiation levels from the plant has been achieved, according to a joint assessment.

The assessment said the radiation level from the turbine buildings of the plant's reactors has been reduced to 1 two-millionth of what it was just after the nuclear accident in March.

In the second stage of the plan for the cold shutdown of the reactors, TEPCO plans to improve its systems to decontaminate wastewater and to cool reactors and fuel rod pools at the plant.

The government and the utility will have to face tough challenges, as the decontamination system has been developing one problem after another and the plant's reactor buildings have been seriously damaged.

Tuesday, July 19, 2011 20:44 +0900 (JST)

Oh, yeah, they checink out cows too... that's it from NHK.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 03:21 PM

Well, I hope they "pitter patter, let's get at'er".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 07:54 PM

The typhoon is supposed to hit the South Islands of Japan. But I understand that all nuclear plants are scrambling to prepare themselves.

Here's some recommendations I just received in the Union of Concerned Scientists newsletter Catalyst under lessons learned for US reactors:

1. Insufficient Backup Power -- US reactors generally have less backup battery power than they had at Fukushima-1, 4 hours instead of 8 hours and more than that would be better.

2. Vulnerable Spent Fuel Pools -- the spent fuel stored in the pools at Fukushima probably melted down as well; backup power is needed for their water cooling systems as well and their sheet metal siding "like that of a Sears storage shed" is not adequate containment if something goes wrong.

3. Shortsighted Evacuation Planning -- the 12-mile evacuation radius for the Fukushima-1 plant was inadequate and current NRC rules only require a 10-mile zone in the States. Planning needs to take into consideration a 50-mile radius as was recommended for US citizens in Japan.

4. Require that spent fuel be shifted out of spent fuel pools after 5 years of cooling into dry cask storage. The spent fuel pools at Fukushima were stuffed with more (3 to 4 times) spent fuel than they were originally designed to hold, and the case is similar in the States.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 07:16 PM

Cross yer fingers... and toes... and eyes...

Course, if it knocks things really bad, ya might end up with all them crossed anyway.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 07:04 PM

Just heard on the news- a large typhoon headed toward Japan.
Don't know any details, but I'll check the weather data tonight.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 04:45 PM

But, whaddya gonna do? If ya ban sales of veggies and meat, people starve. If they eat, they might die in the future but if they don't eat now... ?

It's a tough call. It's an awful mess. Whaddya do???

And what about monitoring in the US? Should I be washing my Washington grown cherries and my Calleeforneeahhh grapes "extra" careful?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 04:34 PM

Read the Guardian article and followed it up with Japan Times-
Beef cattle shipment

Neither says anything about chickens or other fowl. Was this covered earlier and I missed it?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 08:26 AM

The contaminated meat problem is simply another example of how ineffectual the Japanese government has been in protecting its citizens from the radiation spewing from the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex. The Government took early steps to ban green grocery products from the evacuation zone getting to consumers. Why on earth weren't they able to anticipate that farmers in the affected area would try to market their beef?

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 18 Jul 11 - 05:53 AM

The past week there have been reports of increasing concern about meat with high radioactive caesium content turning up all over Japan, and being sold and eaten.

Japanese government now set to ban shipping of beef and cattle from Fukushima prefecture.

Guardian report


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 11:26 PM

Q-

Something to mull overnight.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 08:31 PM

Goshi Hosono, minister in charge of handling the nuclear crisis, said that a new regulatory body for atomic power should be established by April.
Prime Minister Kan has suggested making the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency an independent watchdog by splitting it from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry.
Hosono said it is important to attempt unification of the nuclear safety agency and the Cabinet Office's Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan. He also suggested that the new body should incorporate the radiation monitoring fonctions currently under the jurisdiction of the Science Ministry.
On whether the new body should be an independent commission separate from government, Hosono said, "I wonder if we can bring the benefits of both into one. I hope it will be a reliable administrative organization that can also serve the role of communicating views freely."
Japan Times, Monday, July 18, 2011.

This sounds more like a re-arrangement of the furniture rather than an effective separation of supervision and government.

In other news, Prime Minister Kan and Gosho Hosano said the government may look into easing the 20-km no-entry zone when the radiation-spewing reactors are stabilized.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jul 11 - 02:30 PM

This thread is beginning to be a useful 'first source' since many of the news reports and columnnist discussions will be deleted from the net before long.
Some judgemental and paranoid posts, but much that is useful. Charley's extracts from some of the committee reports are especially useful, since they cover material outside of normal reportage (or at least mine).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 10:18 PM

Q-

Such history always makes for interesting reading, now that there's a context!

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: mg
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 09:24 PM

add some organized crime and thoughts about expendibility of Korean workers, their "untouchable" caste, a traumatized country from the war, etc. etc.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 03:43 PM

Intriguing stuff Q. Thanks! I shall try to make time for reading it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 03:34 PM

"....which protected operators...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 03:29 PM

Interesting story!
"Key players got nuclear ball rolling" Cash paved the way even amid safety doubts on high ineptitude.
Japan Times, Eric Johnstone, staff writer.
"How did earthquake-prone Japan....come to embrace nuclear power....?
This is a tale whose main characters include two former prime ministers, a suspected war criminal, CIA agent and post-war media baron, and Japan's "Charles Lindbergh," a flamboyant pilor who encouraged people to search for uranium in their backyards."
"It also involves thousands of politicians, bureaucrats and the pronuclear media collectively known as Japan's "nuclear power village.""
In 1953, furure prime minister Nakasone was a student at Harvard, who learned that the U.S. was about to allow the technology used to build the atomic bombs to be exported for peaceful use of atomic power.
President Eisenhower announced the "Atoms for Peace" initiative to allies like Japan.
Matsutaro Shoriki, head of Nippon TV and previously jailed for Class A war crimes, also was head of the influential Yomiuri Shimbun, strongly supported nuclear power. In 1954, a research budget was passed by the Diet.
Zensaku Azuma, a popular aviator figure, discovered uranium deposits; his discovery caused others to buy Geiger counters and the craze was on.
Shoriki was elected to Parliament and soon was head of the new Japan Atomic Energy Commission in 1956.
A report from the Science and Technology Agency pointed out the cost of liability claims if things went wrong, but the repost was hidden for 40 years.
The Diet passed an act which nuclear operators from liability "in the case where the damage is caused by a grave natural disaster of an exceptional character or by an insurrection."
New laws were passed to provide roads, bridges, community centers, and public works in exchange for permission from local governments to build nuclear reactors.

Much more to the article, well-worth reading.
Japan nuclear history


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

Glitch forces shutdown of the Oi nuclear power reactor in Fukui Prefecture, adding to power shortage woes. The problem was with the cooling system.
Two more reactors run by Kepco in the Kansai region are scheduled to be halted Thursday and Friday for regular inspections and maintenance.
This will mean eight of 13 commercial reactors in Fukui Prefecture run by Kepco will be offline.
Japan Times, July 16, 2011.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 02:25 PM

The best thread is the one kept up by the International Atomic Energy Agency, IAEA.org. Update summary here:
Update


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 12:18 PM

On npr they mentioned a website that was developed soon after the Japan Nuclear Disaster, much like this thread, to concentrate all the news regarding the JND.

Do you know what it is called?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 02:21 PM

Mainichi is a good news source. I must look at it more often. Along with Japan Times, it is more open, I think, than NHK, which is government funded.

I do like NHK nature and cultural films, some of which have been running on Oasis TV here in Canada.
NHK (one of their outlets) can be subscribed to on cable here in Calgary, But the programs are all in Japanese.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 08:20 AM

Jim-

Thanks for the link above providing a cautious assessment of the radioactive filtering system at Fukushima-1. It's still seems highly optimistic to me that they could process the entire inventory of radioactive contaminated water in the pools and trenches on site by October-November but at least they're making progress. And what do they do with the highly radioactive filters?

My own inane comments above:

"But sometimes it got to get off base."

which I suppose was meant to say:

But sometimes it's good to get off base.

Oh, well, after an interesting day splinting up a broken mower shaft of my 60-year old tractor, it's a wonder I was even that coherent. The splint is holding by the way. And no field mice were injured in the fields being mowed.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 07:28 AM

I don't know whether this tells us anything we didn't already know about the water filtering situation but here it is anyway:

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/national/news/20110709p2a00m0na010000c.html

I am signing in as a guest as my membership seems to have been blocked on my browser, apparently due to the actions of UK trolls although I am Republic of Ireland not UK!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 08:37 PM

You, Charley? Never!

Some headlines from Japan Times.
1. Tepco injects nitrogen into No. 3 reactor at Fukushima, to reduce the risk of further hydrogen explosions.
2. Government-commissioned experts noted in the early 1990s the possibility of fatal damage to nuclear power plants resulting from loss of all alternating-current sources for long periods, as in the case of the Fukushima No. 1 plant, but played down the risk.
3. Tohoku land use guidelines- Fish-processing firms can build plants along the coast, but hospitals and welfare facilities must be inland.
4. Sanitary conditions are deteriorating in shelters as the temperature rises.
5. Phasing out nuke power an aspiration, not policy. Edano.
6. Power shortages top concern for investors.

If you wish to read them, google Japan Times.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 06:48 PM

gnu et al-

Hey, even I am totally off base on occasion. But sometimes it got to get off base.

Thankfully, I've got some friends here to gently bring me back to earth.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 06:13 PM

Thanks Q. I was way off base, but that's not new.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:44 PM

Canada and Latin America use the same 60 Hz system as the U.S. and 100-120 volts. The 50 hertz 220-240 v system is used in Europe and much of the world.

AEG of Germany in 1891 adopted and sold 50Hz systems, Westinghouse in 1890 developed and sold 60Hz systems.

This has nothing to do with systems of weights and measures.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 05:24 PM

Gnu, it happened in the 1890s. MacArthur was still in school back then, graduating from the U.S. Military Academy in 1903.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 03:40 PM

I assume the 50/60 thing was caused by "MacArthur". Why the Yanks want to cling to the Imperial system to this day is beyond me. I loath it and why anyone would buck transition to the the International System is just... beyond me. Yes, it costs a few bucks but the USA doesn't dictate to the world any more with a trade deficit and a monthly due date it may not be able to meet. Just odd to me that Yankee commerce as a whole didn't see it looming as a "cost" in the long run.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 02:54 PM

I seem to remember posting on the fragmented power grid much earlier in this thread. I have had to look it up again, I plead memory failure.
Eastern Japan including Tokyo is 50 hertz but the rest is on 60 cycle.
It dates from the 19th C.
Tokyo area selected German 50 hertz. Osaka and much of the west selected 60 cycle from the U.S.
There is a good article in Scientific American, but their website is down for revision.
Apparently there are only three small converter stations that bridge a fraction of the gap.
Yes, engineering could cure this, but a multiyear rebuild at billions of yen is involved.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 02:25 PM

NHK has several "annoying" stories but here's just one...

Radioactive cesium far exceeding safe limits has been detected in hay fed to cattle at a second farm near the crippled nuclear power plant in Fukushima Prefecture.

Fukushima's government warned on Thursday that 42 possibly contaminated cattle have already been shipped out from the farm in Asakawa Town.

The finding came during inspections ordered by the prefecture after a large dose of the radioactive substance was found in hay at the first farm in Minami-Soma City.

The latest checks uncovered radioactive cesium measured up to 97,000 becquerels per kilogram -- some 73 times the government-set safety limit.

The 42 cattle had been sent to 4 meat-processing plants between April 8th and July 6th -- 14 to Yokohama; 13 to Tokyo; 10 to Sendai and 5 to Chiba.

The prefecture has ordered the farm to stop shipping and transporting its cattle.

It has also provided detailed information to relevant municipalities, asking them to trace back distribution channels of beef from the cattle.

Thursday, July 14, 2011 21:52 +0900 (JST)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: mg
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 11:05 PM

I think if you allowed true engineering to prevail over whatever the hell is going on over there, you would have a fairly rapid recovery of the electric system and with it the economy and the health of the people. mg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM

mg-

Good point on the radically different power grids in the Japanese home islands. It doesn't make sense in a modern world.

One does wonder what the history was. I'm guessing that it was independent capitalists with economic ties to particular foreign corporations. But maybe you will provoke some real research.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 07:17 PM

It appears the present and future economies are tied to nuke power for better or worse all over the world. BUT, if the money holders are taken down over this disatser perhaps that will change the playing field to the inclusion of reasonable engineering design to accomodate Mum Nature.

Certainly, the US Army Corps of Engineers knew the NO's levees were insufficient but politicians wouldn't fund the coin to build them properly. It happens every day. I ran into it day after day as a design engineer... some pencil pushing accountant sitting at the table saying what the CEO wanted to hear and drowning out the voice of reason.

Even senior engineers get sucked into the job of lacky... I once told my engineer boss that if he subverted a tender policy to accept a tainted (low by well over $100,000 on a $3M contract) bid that I would inform the RCMP. It was a Crown Corporation and I won out with my threat (which I WOULD have followed through on because it's my professional duty to the public) but it was not a pleasant work environment after that.

I assume the engineers in the nuke industry experience the same frustration and worse because they are in a PRIVATE company and baby needs a new pair of shoes... it ain't all that simple when you are trying to feed your family and the rich pricks don't give a shit abut YOUR family.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 06:01 PM

Softbank proposal for solar power generation. 36 of 47 prefectures have signed up, also Osaka, which relies heavily on nuclear power.
Son, the president, said "setting up solar panels on 20 percent of unused or abandoned farm land can have the generating capacity of about 50 gigawatts, equivalent to the output of about 50 nuclear generators."
"By aiming also to introduce other energy sources, such as wind and geothermal power by 2020, Son envisions raising the share of renewable energy in Japan to about 20 percent of total electricity generation." Japan Times, July 13, 2011.

Note that no-one has proposed replacing all nuclear generators. The energy demands of Japanese industry are so large that this would be impossible with the present state of engineering knowhow.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 05:09 PM

It seems that one of their main problems is an unbelieveable grid where one part of the country has one kind of voltage and the other side has a different kind so they can not transfer from one side to another.

They are sitting on a goldmine of tidal power and wind power..and I believe geothermal power...and have land that can not be used for farming now but could have wind I would think on a seacoast.

Anyway, it seems that upgrading the grid as well as getting local power to local needs would be very important business.

I know why the grid developed how it did..different companies with different designs..but what if any was the incentive for keeping it that way over the years in a pretty prosperous industrial country dependent on electricity...some have suggested then you need nuclear power so was it done on purpose? mg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 03:59 PM

The BBC article is misleading. Kan wants to reduce dependence on nuclear energy, and wants 20 percent in the 2020s.
As a result of this policy, dependence on fossil fuels will increase temporarily.
He said nothing about ending nuclear energy, only reducing dependence.
Japan Times, Wed. July 13. "Kan plan set to end nuclear goals" (of reaching 53 percent by 2030.

In another article, Softbank Corp. is proposing solar plants on idle farmland.

The lead article in today's Japan Times says GE proposed alterations to their original plans for Fukushima reactors, but TEPCO would not permit any changes in the original plans.

In the meantime, the opposition may turn out Kan in forthcoming elections.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 10:54 AM

Kan promises a nuclear-free future:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14137186

but without providing any concrete suggestions as to how.

That has to be the least convincing poltical promise since Thatcher's "the NHS is safe in our hands".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:08 PM

Good to hear that the recent 7.1 earthquake caused no major damage. The Japanese deserve some good luck. But they shouldn't count on it.

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 30 March 3:24 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.