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BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

Donuel 28 Mar 11 - 08:48 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM
GUEST,mg 28 Mar 11 - 05:45 PM
Donuel 28 Mar 11 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,999 28 Mar 11 - 05:01 PM
Donuel 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM
GUEST,mg 28 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Mar 11 - 04:50 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 04:34 PM
Charley Noble 28 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 03:14 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 28 Mar 11 - 02:09 PM
Jack Campin 28 Mar 11 - 02:08 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 01:22 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 01:06 PM
Charley Noble 28 Mar 11 - 12:59 PM
Charley Noble 28 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM
Charley Noble 28 Mar 11 - 12:48 PM
gnu 28 Mar 11 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,mg 28 Mar 11 - 10:34 AM
Charley Noble 28 Mar 11 - 08:10 AM
Donuel 28 Mar 11 - 12:05 AM
Donuel 27 Mar 11 - 11:55 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Mar 11 - 11:29 PM
Donuel 27 Mar 11 - 11:19 PM
Charley Noble 27 Mar 11 - 09:47 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Mar 11 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Mar 11 - 05:01 PM
gnu 27 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM
Charley Noble 27 Mar 11 - 04:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Mar 11 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Mar 11 - 03:25 PM
Charley Noble 27 Mar 11 - 02:24 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Mar 11 - 01:07 PM
gnu 27 Mar 11 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,mg 27 Mar 11 - 12:15 PM
Charley Noble 27 Mar 11 - 12:11 PM
Donuel 27 Mar 11 - 11:42 AM
Donuel 27 Mar 11 - 11:35 AM
Charley Noble 27 Mar 11 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,999 27 Mar 11 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 27 Mar 11 - 08:06 AM
gnu 27 Mar 11 - 06:54 AM
GUEST,mg 26 Mar 11 - 10:07 PM
gnu 26 Mar 11 - 09:18 PM
Charley Noble 26 Mar 11 - 08:30 PM
gnu 26 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Mar 11 - 04:30 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:48 PM

From a photo of the reactors, do you see that little enclosed harbor in front of the plant? That is where the most deadly radioactive water with PU and U in it is leaking its contents into the sea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM

A gold plated cluster fuck 999? Yeah, the silver cloud lining on this one is too silvery, too shiney and too deadly.

As I said above, I was a fan of CANDU and I would have supported LePreau 2 (New Brunswick, Canada) with a CANDU and definitely not the French reactor being considered. Not now. I read up on the spent fuel storage and disposal for the CANDU. The CANDU reactor appears much safer but the spent fuel storage certainly does not. Plus, at the present technology, given the obvious fact that Mother Nature is a bitch, the only safe course is "no". Coal sucks big time but it doesn't fuck over the entire planet in the blink of an eye.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:45 PM

salmon that comes to US swimming from Korea?

Salmon in vicinity anyway?

Other fish?

Shellfish?

You can scrape up contaminated soil and do something with it but you can't do that with water. Well, look at the bright side. Perhaps it will bond with the plastic bits in the ocean and be transformed into fairy dust to be combed through the hair of mermaids.

But less rare day by day will be lies because there will be more eyes on this collection of fools and criminals and more independent monitoring. And the truth will hurt but in the long run, perhaps very long, good comes out of almost every bad thing. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:09 PM

I again believe the title looming
should have been chnaged when reactor #3 containing plutonium exploded thousands of feet into the air in what was clearly not just a hydrogen explosion, but a super pressurized containment vessel breach.

Yes of curse there is a large plutonium release.


The list of increasingly rare things

Nissan ZX 2012
Kobi beef
Japanese vegetables
Dolphin slaughters
Whale hunting
safe Toyotas
Japanese Lithium batteries
Japanese apple components for i pad


Speculators have already placed their bets on some of those commodities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:01 PM

Talk about yer gold plated CF.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:59 PM

source nextbigfuture.com

deaths per terawatt hour

Coal 161
Nuclear .04



----------------------

However what about 2, 4, 6, 12 thousands years from now when the steel and concrete exposes all the used nuclear fuel?

With nuclear power all the poisonous death is shoved into the future where none of us live.

What looks like a good deal even to some enviormentalists, is in fact the greatest treason ever committed to the future planet Earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM

Could they repump the water? Is it cool enough? Too contaminated? Can they not think in terms of containment by cementing outer buildings around the blown up buildings?

Again, why can they not cement the rods? Because they would keep on burning and the cement or sand would drive them into the ground?

Is there any way to raise them? Oops crane broke. Slide cement under them? Make individual containers for them?

mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:50 PM

Japan Times, staff writers Nagata and Takahara
"Radioactive water keeps workers out"
"Turbine room floods linked to sea"
"Reactor turbine basements flooded with highly radioactive materials kept a desperate effort to stabilize the Fukushima No. 1 power plant at bay Monday, as fresh data showed that nearby seawater was being contaminated further by the lesking facility."
Effforts by TEPCO to restore the cooling systems for reactors 1 through 4, as well as their spent-fuel storage pools, continue to be halted by the radioactive water which is now at lethal levels.

Trenches below the turbine buildings have radiation as strong as 1,000 millisieverts/hour- the same as in the turbine buildings.
Since the trenches exits are only about 55 to 70 meters from the sea, TEPCO officials are worried that the highly poluted water could overflow from the trenches and out to the sea.

A board member of Citizens' Nuclear Information Center said it may tale even a month to pump out the toxic water, restore damaged cooling facilities and bring the reactors under control to end the crisis.
Eventually the plant may need to be encased in concrete, like Chernobyl was, he said.

Prof, Furukawa, Nagoya Univ., emeritus on nuclear energy, said workers can probably work only up to ten minutes at a time.
"Although water in the no. 1 turbine has been pumped into a container tank, TEPCO has not yet come up with ways to remove the flooding at the other three turbine buildings. "
"Having been unable to find effective ways to move forward, TEPCO seems to be visibly confused by the situation and has botched some of its announcements of crucial monitoring data."

Extracted from the article,
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110329al.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:34 PM

Well, Charley, according to the top American on site advising the Japanese, it still is looming... not nearly as bad as Chernobyl YET (viedo on NHK). But, it sure looks like it has the potential to be far worse.

You could start a new thread and link the two if you want.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM

It really takes a team to pull all the threads together. Thanks for the work.

I generally find what the Union of Concerned Scientists have to say much more informed and straightforward than anything provided by the media, as they should be. At times they appear puzzled by what is happening as well, trying to sift the tea leaves or read between the lines of the various press statements from Japan and our own NRC. And they are challenged, as they admit, attempting to envision what might happen next. So I think they're a good reality check on the evolving disaster.

I did request that Joe Offer change the thread title. Disaster, I believe, is well beyond "looming."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 03:14 PM

Thanks Jack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:18 PM

NHK... 20k+ US troops on the way for distribution of supplies. 134 nations have offered help. 26 nations have sent supplies. 20 nations have emergency teams in Japan. US military sending radiation gear for workers (Demron suits perhaps?). US fresh water barges on the way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:09 PM

Not much to add to Charley's posts.

Nissan is considering moving engine plants to U. S. Toyota is trying limited production, but some parts will soon run out.
Much of industry still shut down.
Loss of power from Fukushima affecting industry all across Japan.


Last night Japanese television carried a highschool baseball game with Tohoku as one of the teams, and a very strong one. The Tohoku area is where the Fukushima complex is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:08 PM

I think he means this video:

http://www.youtube.com/user/modchannel#p/a/u/0/ZKFGavZ_rf4


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:22 PM

That UCS update is, ah, er... interesting, to say the VERY least.

I am not even a fan of the CANDU anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:11 PM

Can't find the video Charley.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:06 PM

NHK... "16 tons of water was being injected into the reactor every hour but TEPCO now says it wants to reduce the amount to 7 tons. This would be enough to replace the amount that is evaporating."

Water in turbine buildings 1,2,and 3 and in the mecahical/electrical "trench" (I assume tunnel) between the turbine buildings and the ocean is contaminated.

I think Charley may be right on this one.

What a nightmare.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 12:59 PM

If the above updates are not enough to alarm you, try this update from NIRS commenting on what can be seen from a recent helicopter video of the damaged reactor buildings:

"A striking video taken yesterday morning from a helicopter above Fukushima shows incredible damage and continuing radioactive steam leaks.

According to this report from the Japan Atomic Industrial Forum, the video appears to show that a heavy crane fell onto the fuel pool at Unit 3 and may have damaged the pool."

If you go to the NIRS website you can access the video.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 12:54 PM

Here's a depressing link showing what is evidently functioning in the control room of one of the Fukushima-1 reactors as posted and discussed by the Union of Concerned Scientists: click here for update!

The only thing electrical that appears to be functioning are the overhead lights. I hope they remember to turn them off when they abandon the building.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 12:48 PM

Now the Fukushima-1 nuclear plant officials are acknowledging, via CNN at noon, that they discovered plutonium in the soil a week ago outside the reactor buildings. There is no explanation how plutonium (a highly toxic long-lived radioactive element) might have been deposited there but there had to be some kind of break in Unit 3, the other reactor at the complex that uses a composite plutonium-Uranium fuel. So was it from a breach in the spent fuel pool wall or the reactor primary containment? And was it borne out of the reactor building in one of the hydrogen explosions?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 12:00 PM

Charley... "...that the tons of salt water they'd been spraying on the damaged reactor buildings was draining somewhere as a highly radioactive spill."

Hmmm... unless a pool(s) was filled to overflowing or a core(s) was breeched, that wouldn't be the case. Of course, it could have been the case but I think it's more likely that there's a piping/valve breech. In any case, they had to do what they had to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 10:34 AM

The unbelievable idiots told the workers standing in seawater doing electrical work to put plastic bags over their street shoes rather than having special footwear. I would assume that an electrician would have his or own special footwear for wet conditions, not nuclear conditions, but even so...why are these idiots basically controlling the destiny of at least part of their country, region, or perhaps the oceans of the world?   I never in a million years would have predicted this level of stupidity from Japan, but that is what it is. It is totally beyond my comprehension.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/radiation-levels-reach-new-highs-as-conditions-worsen-for-workers/2011/03/27/AFsMLFiB_print.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:10 AM

I expect there now will be some serious speculation on the enormous economic and environmental impact of this continuing disaster.

I fully expected that at some point TEPCO and or the Japanese Government would have to acknowledge that the tons of salt water they'd been spraying on the damaged reactor buildings was draining somewhere as a highly radioactive spill. Some has obviously already made its way to the adjacent bay.

It's time to rename this thread to "Nuclear Plant Disaster Continuing," for it will unfortunately continue for the foreseeable future.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 12:05 AM

What we see is the result of business as usual.

It is failing now, and even if we stopped all the madness...
The waste will always be waste and is unique in that it will always be a huge problem.
This nuke business is counting on some way to tell people 12,000 years from now to get away. The check is in the mail.

We can't even agree on what an old testament meant, and its only been around a few thousand years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:55 PM

Aint no limits

Did you happen to catch the 93 Trillion dollar rip off scheme back in 1998?

The great home harvest?
The culling of the herd?
The Honey harvest from middle class hives only?

The great derivitive perogative?

Limits are things like laws, regulations, collective bargaining, taxation etc.


Of course for a free market economy to work, the most essential factor would be that everyone would self moderate their desires, passions and become purely obcessive about their objectives.

Its not a free market when all there is are 3 branches of too big to fail monopolies: banking, health and energy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:29 PM

I would think there would be some limits on a private company, even one that seems to own the government. I am certainly not against private companies or capitalism, but with pretty sound boundaries, and in cases where the ecology and economy of the country and other countries is in jeopardy, then have a way to pull the plug on them. I hope if they are allowed to operate in the future (by whom??) they are limited to solar and wind energy and maybe tide but they could probably screw that up. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:19 PM

mg sincerely asked why. Why?

Because TEPCO is a private company and much prefers doing or not doing anything it damn well pleases to profit in a manner that is in keeping with the super capitalistic goals of a free marketplace.
Are any of you communists going to argue with that?
I didn't think so.

bottom line

It is their business and none of your business.
_______________________________________________


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 09:47 PM

mg-

Melted reactor fuel will eat its way though a wall of concrete as it does through a thick wall of stainless steel. It's really hard to stop as long as there is a good supply of it.

Is something now being reported for reactor Unit 1?

I'm not expecting that tomorrow's news will be better.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:36 PM

Gnu- I get the English NHK news on the net like you-I have quoted from it occasionally. The channel I was speaking of is much like NBC or whatever, with drama, sports, and all that stuff in addition to short newscasts, for the general Japanese audience.

If we subscribe, we can get a couple of Italian TV channels, Deutsche Welle, Indonesian, Arabic, Indian, Greek and all that furrin stuff. Only BBC America and BBC News America from UK, however. The UK channels seen over there are left out- objections from Canadian and U. S. networks??

Thanks, Charley. The Caesium is a likely candidate- don't know why they didn't name it.
If material from the primary containment escaped, I doubt that it would go far as a flow- but escaping into the air and into groundwater is still a worst case scenario.
It seems to be getting to the stage where reactors 1 and 2 will have to be buried.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 05:01 PM

Could they not build a wall very high around the area? Cement. Perhaps a moat? Oh..Cement must be brought in from CHina. Too late. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:46 PM

Q... I get it here in English... dunno why you can't.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/index.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:18 PM

Q-

Cesium-137 is the next most likely candidate with a half-life of 30 years, or 300 to 600 years to return to background level depending how conservative one is.

I'm glad to hear they were cooking the eels. I hate it when you try to swallow them uncooked and they begin squirming...

I was listening to one CNN expert being quizzed today on what the worst case scenario might be from this point. After some hemming and hawing, he suggested a lava of molted core material escaping from the primary containment and spilling out onto the grounds of the site and then into the bay. I would add that I'm not sure what there is in such a lava's path that would be flammable, but if there were something there would certainly be a very dangerous fire spewing radioactive volatiles into the atmosphere. Very bad news for anyone downwind.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:46 PM

NHK, March 27, 22:02, now says that TEPCO says the level is 1000 microsieverts for the Iodine-134, which is still very high- see comment by Nishiyama, above. NHK on line.

The 'false' reading was for another substance with a longer half-life.
They did not name it- any guesses, Charley?

The toxic 'puddles' are being removed (Japan Times)

Soil samples are being checked for plutonium by independent labs.

NHK Japan TV is available here as a pay channel. The cable company opened it yesterday free, but unless one speaks Japanese, it is no help.
I did watch a cooking show, because it was filmed in London and had the Japanese translator superimposed.
It was about cooking eels. They showed a Londoner preparing eel pie, then a chef with a rather complicated recipe (both recipes given in detail). I added eel to my list of things to avoid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 03:25 PM

I do feel better. I would send in I Like Math Barbie but for sure she is not real.

The electric company has "declined" an independent monitor. Why are they in a position to "decline" anything? Again I ask, who is running this country and this disaster.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_bi_ge/as_japan_earthquake

Why is there not martial law at least for this company? I would imagine because they have insured it through graft and corruption and perhaps worse. There is a big article in the Oregonian today about how the government is "urging" TEPCO to "come clean." Why is there urging as opposed to insisting. I presume there is great fear of TEPCO for some reason, or whoever owns TEPCO. Plus TEPCO probably has said, go ahead and shut us down. We don't want to stay anyway but we have the secret drawings that can possibly save the day and they are hidden in a vault somewhere.

Something is really really wrong and it is not just dubious (and I am being so kind here) engineering and lack of planning for emergencies.

Something is really really wrong with the government. Are they puppets? Who is pulling the strings? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 02:24 PM

TTokyo Electric Power Company has announced a correction of its radiation figures for the water in the Unit 2 reactor building. It's not 10,000,000 more than background, just 100,000. Whew! I was beginning to worry. Don't you all feel better as well?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 01:07 PM

From articles in Japan Times-
Japan is re-evsluating is energy plans, but no new policy will be agreed upon for some time.
The current basic energy plan, June 2010, called for nuclear power to be the "core source of energy in the medium and long term," and outlined a program of at least 14 new reactors by 2030, with nine slated for completion by 2020.
Following the disaster at the Fukushima plant at Tohoku, local communities may not agree to host new plants.

Since there is no alternative, abandoning atomic energy seems to be unrealistic. More thermal plants have been suggested, but lead-in time is about ten years.

Both the Japan Times and the New York Times carry finger-pointing articles, as academics and scientists point to missed or ignored indicators of large tsunamis on the part of both government and energy companies.

Both surface, and as far as I can determine from sketchy groundwater info on the net, groundwaters in this part of Tohoku carry runoff to the sea.
Tepco is criticized for conflicting radioactivity measurements, but with damaged instruments at critical points, it is hard to get accurate data.

NISA's Nishiyama said the levels of radioactive iodine at reactor no. 2, 1000 millisieverts/hour and more, definitely indicate a nuclear fission source, but he believes that the core and containment vessel are still intact and that the radioactive water may be seeping from damaged pipes and valves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:42 PM

from NHK...

Tokyo Electric Power Company has retracted its announcement that 10 million times the normal density of radioactive materials had been detected in water at the Number 2 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

The utility says it will conduct another test of the leaked water at the reactor's turbine building.

The company said on Sunday evening that the data for iodine-134 announced earlier in the day was actually for another substance that has a longer half-life.

The plant operator said earlier on Sunday that 2.9 billion becquerels per cubic centimeter had been detected in the leaked water.

It said although the initial figure was wrong, the water still has a high level of radioactivity of 1,000 millisieverts per hour.

Sunday, March 27, 2011 22:02 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:15 PM

People seem to like Edano and suggest he might be the next Prime Minister. If you have a measurement, and presumably several, why do you not know when you plan to release the information? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:11 PM

From Al Jazeera:

"The operator of Japan's Fukushima Daiichi quake-crippled nuclear complex has said a spike reported in radioactivity at the plant is a mistake.

Jiji Press quoted the Tokyo Electric Power (TEPCO) as saying on Sunday that the mistake - which indicated radiation levels 10 million times higher than normal - was due to confusion between readings of iodine and cobalt in the water.

The inaccurate reading had forced emergency workers to flee from the complex's Unit 2 reactor.

"The number is not credible," said TEPCO's spokesman, Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorry."

He said officials were taking another sample to get accurate levels, but did not know when the results would be announced.

The situation came as officials acknowledged there was radioactive water in all four of the Fukushima Daiichi complex's most troubled reactors, and as airborne radiation in Unit 2 measured 1,000 millisieverts per hour - four times the limit deemed safe by the government, Kurita said.

The plant has been crippled by an earthquake and a tsunami that devastated northeastern Japan two weeks ago, sparking fears of high levels of radiation.

Officials say they still do not know where the radioactive water is coming from, though government spokesman Yukio Edano has said some is "almost certainly" seeping from a cracked reactor core in one of the units.

While the discovery of the high radiation levels - and the evacuation of workers from one reactor unit - again delayed efforts to bring the deeply troubled complex under control, Edano insisted the situation had partially stabilised.

"We have somewhat prevented the situation from turning worse," he told reporters Sunday evening.

"But the prospects are not improving in a straight line and we've expected twists and turns. The contaminated water is one of them and we'll continue to repair the damage."

The discovery over the last three days of radioactive water has been a major setback in the mission to get the plant's crucial cooling systems operating more than two weeks after a massive earthquake and tsunami."

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:42 AM

I heard a piece of music that had rhythmic beeps representing each atmosphereic test of thermonuclear bombs. and long whines for plant disasters, not great but inspirational for a musical work to explore the subject further.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:35 AM

Yesterday they reported 1,200 above normal then 8 hours later 10,000 above normal and last night 10,000,000 times above normal and now they said we really don;t have any good monitoring devices working in that area so we apologize for any confusion.


classic


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:06 AM

It doesn't look good to me this morning for the Fukushima-1 nuclear complex site or the adjacent bay, or anywhere downwind. The reports from CNN this morning cite radiation readings in the coolant system 10,000,000 times background which I find very alarming. There has to be melted fuel rods by this time in all three reactors and most likely four of the spent fuel pools, and some major breach in the primary containment of one or more of the units or in the wall of a spent fuel pool or two for those kind of readings.

Utility workers are going to attempt to recheck their radiation readings today. It's possible that their instruments were not set properly to get such extraordinarily high readings. I hope they made some sort of blunder.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:49 AM

There's news, but none of it is particularly good I'm sorry to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:06 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12872707


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:54 AM

NHK...

Tokyo Electric Power Company says it has detected radioactive materials 10-million-times normal levels in water at the No.2 reactor complex of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.

The plant operator, known as TEPCO, says it measured 2.9-billion becquerels of radiation per one cubic centimeter of water from the basement of the turbine building attached to the Number 2 reactor.

The level of contamination is about 1,000 times that of the leaked water already found in the basements of the Number 1 and 3 reactor turbine buildings.

The company says the latest reading is 10-million times the usual radioactivity of water circulating within a normally operating reactor.
TEPCO says the radioactive materials include 2.9-billion becquerels of iodine-134, 13-million becquerels of iodine-131, and 2.3-million becquerels each for cesium 134 and 137.

These substances are emitted during nuclear fission inside a reactor core.

The company says the extremely contaminated water may stem from damaged fuel in the reactor, and are trying to determine how the leakage occurred.

University of Tokyo graduate school professor Naoto Sekimura says the leak may come from the suppression chamber of the Number 2 reactor, which is known to be damaged. The chamber is designed to contain overflows of radioactive substances from the reactor.

Sunday, March 27, 2011 13:44 +0900 (JST)



Radiation levels 40 percent higher than the yearly limit for the general public has been detected just over 30 kilometers from the Fukushima Daiichi power plant.

The Science Ministry says a reading of 1.4 millisieverts was taken on Wednesday morning in Namie Town northwest of the plant.

The government has not told residents outside the 30-kilometer radius of the plant to evacuate, or even to stay indoors.

Someone staying outdoors for 24-hours at that location would exceed the annual limit of one millisievert. The limit is based on a recommendation by the International Commission on Radiological Protection.

The science ministry obtained the reading after monitoring 10 locations outside the 30-kilometer zone, following reports that relatively high levels of radiation were found outside that area.

Radiation exerts now say the amount of radiation detected does not pose a health risk. But they advise residents in the area to stay alert for any possible rise in radiation levels, because the power plant is not likely to stop releasing radiation any time soon.

Sunday, March 27, 2011 08:53 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 10:07 PM

The people running it have to be honest and transparent and have overseers and be answerable not only to their own countries but to neighboring ones at least. They can not be above the law, as seems to be the case in Japan, where they operated after being shut down for falsifying safety records. I think they should not be allowed to leave the country in a crisis and their finances should be able to be investigated. Temptations to cutting costs, especially by dishonesty and coverups, should be eliminated. They should be subject to international standards and submit to international inspections. First and foremost, do not trust people running this particular show. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 09:18 PM

True Charley. Absolutely true. On all counts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 08:30 PM

Well, we could continue this argument but I do agree that science should dictate what the criteria should be. However, I could also suggest that that seldom happens when utility board members get involved.

One of the running problems with nuclear power has always been that the design has to be very good, the operation near flawless, or there is a risk of a catastrophic accident. No other energy source has so much public risk.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:52 PM

You wanna be a grasshopper or an ant?

Here's the grasshopper's design proposal for the 10.0 that is surely coming... drink up and forget building anything. Why bother?

I'm with the ants.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Mar 11 - 04:30 PM

Bad point.
Why use specifications for areas not on the tectonic plate boundaries involved?
That doesn't make sense. Very little would be constructed anywhere if that were done.


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