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BS: Japan Nuclear plant disaster, 2011

gnu 06 Apr 11 - 09:07 AM
gnu 06 Apr 11 - 09:00 AM
Charley Noble 06 Apr 11 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 06 Apr 11 - 07:32 AM
Jack Campin 06 Apr 11 - 05:52 AM
Lizzie Cornish 1 06 Apr 11 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,999 06 Apr 11 - 04:02 AM
Donuel 06 Apr 11 - 03:43 AM
GUEST,999 06 Apr 11 - 03:42 AM
Donuel 06 Apr 11 - 03:27 AM
GUEST,999 06 Apr 11 - 03:11 AM
GUEST,mg 06 Apr 11 - 12:35 AM
GUEST,999 06 Apr 11 - 12:34 AM
GUEST,mg 06 Apr 11 - 12:27 AM
GUEST,999 06 Apr 11 - 12:18 AM
Donuel 05 Apr 11 - 11:07 PM
GUEST,999 05 Apr 11 - 10:27 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 09:56 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Apr 11 - 08:56 PM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 11 - 08:33 PM
gnu 05 Apr 11 - 08:02 PM
Donuel 05 Apr 11 - 07:47 PM
Jack Campin 05 Apr 11 - 07:25 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 05:21 PM
gnu 05 Apr 11 - 05:06 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Apr 11 - 04:43 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 04:37 PM
gnu 05 Apr 11 - 04:32 PM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 11 - 04:20 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM
Jack Campin 05 Apr 11 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 02:09 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 01:33 PM
gnu 05 Apr 11 - 01:32 PM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 11 - 01:22 PM
Donuel 05 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Apr 11 - 12:59 PM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 11 - 11:52 AM
Donuel 05 Apr 11 - 11:50 AM
Donuel 05 Apr 11 - 11:48 AM
gnu 05 Apr 11 - 10:57 AM
Charley Noble 05 Apr 11 - 09:04 AM
GUEST,Jim Martin 05 Apr 11 - 07:07 AM
Jack Campin 05 Apr 11 - 05:36 AM
GUEST,999 05 Apr 11 - 03:30 AM
GUEST,999 05 Apr 11 - 02:14 AM
GUEST,mg 05 Apr 11 - 12:29 AM
Charley Noble 04 Apr 11 - 10:32 PM
Donuel 04 Apr 11 - 09:32 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 09:07 AM

Q... yeah, I know... about 69 slugs would be proper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 09:00 AM

One cubic metre of water has a mass of one tonne. About 2200 pounds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 08:21 AM

Thanks for the BBC link, Jim. Here's the relevant excerpt:

"On Tuesday, Japan asked Russia for the use of a floating radiation treatment plant to tackle waste water.

Russia's nuclear agency Rosatom said it was awaiting answers to some questions before granting the request to lend the Landysh, known in Japanese as the Suzuran, which is used to decommission Russian nuclear submarines in the far eastern port of Vladivostok.

One of the world's largest liquid radioactive waste treatment plants, the Landysh treats radioactive liquid with chemicals and stores it in a cement form.

It can process 35 cubic metres of liquid waste a day and 7,000 cubic metres a year."

MATH EXERCISE

Think about this: "35 cubic metres of liquid waste a day" when they are currently dumping "some 11,500 tonnes of low-level radioactive seawater into the sea so the more highly contaminated water can be stored in waste buildings." Someone please recheck my math but "35 cubic metres" of water weighs about 7500 lbs. Since 2240 lbs equals 1 tonne, 7500 lbs should equal 3.3 tonnes. Therefore is would take 3485 days to process 11,500 tonnes of the current inventory of low-level radioactive seawater, or almost 10 years. And that's if everything goes right and no more radioactive water is added to the inventory.

I wonder what the Russians do with the radioactive cement blocks they produce with the above process? No, I don't won't to know.

Oh, and I like the name Landysh even better than Suzuran for the name of the reprocessing ship, an outlandish name if there ever was one!

Time to check for further developments.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 07:32 AM

A bit more on the Russian floating nuclear treatment ship:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12981243


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 05:52 AM

Minamata disease--so called because the effects of mercury poisoning were first recognized there--were in Japan in Minamata Bay. The effects were seen some (I don't remember how many) years later in Dryden, Ontario, when Native people were diagnosed as having the same symptoms. Absolutely terrible effects that can make me cry to this day. Alfred Troyer wrote the book on it.

Didn't know that - thanks. The book about Minamata was by W. Eugene Smith, working for the Magnum photo agency at the time. The company's goons beat him up so badly when covering a protest by the victims that he was disabled for the rest of his life. Would that happen today? Probably not but I don't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

Minamata did far more damage than the Fukushima plant has, so far.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 04:39 AM

OK, this is the time to ge my credit card out, right?   Shopping spree here I come! By the time they'll almost have caught up with me we'll all be putrified..


Now, I've had my eye on a REALLY BIG bottle of Chanel No 5 for many a long year...dreamin' dreamin' dreamin'...but now I can make that dream come true and be the only person on the planet who'll smell heavenly rather than hellish when the aliens discover my glowing blob, several thousand light years from now...

Maybe they'll decide I was a Queen or maybe even...a Goddess!


Apologies for my black sense of humour, but in times of Great Shite it always comes to the forefront...


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 04:02 AM

All that's true. But right now it isn't the problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 03:43 AM

You know that video with Arnie GUnderson you just saw?,   well he is a shill for the NRC and owners of nuclear plants. He has his little fairwinds group to sell his services to shape public opinion anytime there is an accidnet at a nuke plant.

The first 7 days of the Fukushima disaster he was on FOx news shows yelling that nothing is wrong and no one ever died in amy nuclear plant and on and on as these paid actors with degrees are supposed to do.
------------------------------------------------------------------
So when Arnie comes out and admits of the criticalities cycling up and down in reactor 1 ...IT IS A BIG DEAL.
------------------------------------------------------------------
This guy had no qualms lieing about the safety of nuclear power on FOX in a raised voice trying to out shout the "liberal guest with the opposite view" as they so dealy love to do on FOX for 'excitement TV'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 03:42 AM

You slight too many people here, Don. You are a genius, but you are not the only smart person here. Ease up a bit. Please.

While so many here think they are saving the world, they are in fact dealing with a very serious hazmat situation. Let's not get caught up in our own rhetoric. Work the problem, not the other things to do with recrimination. If we survive it all there will be time for recrimination later. Right now, the problem IS the problem, imo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 03:27 AM

The criticality (ission bursts( that I hae warned about since day 1 are now confirmed.

REACTOR 1 has gone critical in continuing cycles of neutron bursts.
Those who see it will regret having seen it with their own eyes.

THere are many links to the blue beams of neutrons at reactor 1 but this crowd would probably appreciate this mild mannered guy who speaks on the subject.

Reactor one is currently having runaway fission explosions

This is the stuff of neutron bombs.


btw If a massive criticality wipes out a 50 miles radius of all life it is said that all the people and animals will not decay in the traditional way. They will appear pristine and fresh until dehydration alone changes the appearence. The reason for this is the same as the radiation they might use to preserve meat products at your grocery store. All the bacteria of putrification are sterilized and allow the bodies to stay permanently fresh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 03:11 AM

"oh good news gentlemen."

And ladies!


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:35 AM

I googled

http://www.myimpact.ch/Our%20Work/Our%20work_book%20MyImpact/Interviewees/Asia/Japan/Our%20work_book%20MyImpact_Interviewee_TEPCO_main.htm

Three administrators featured..backgrounds in law, economics and economics. Now I am even more confident.

Say they can't use wind energy because of "restriction of useable land and the generally steep seafloor" ...oh good news gentlemen..there will be probably some useable land available very soon. Not useable for too much else but useable for wind. Likewise sea. Oh, too steep. Put it on floats then. Then they talk about how it is too mountainous. I bet there is some wind up in those mountains.

I also bet they are going to discover an awful lot of wind in the weeks and months to come. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:34 AM

Are there engineers higher up? Is it all run by _____?

The zaibatsu maybe? Japan is NOT a democracy as we know it, Mary. I know I am on your so-called black list, but give it a thought anyway, will ya?


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:27 AM

Has anyone asked the obvious question as to what the qualifications of TEPCO officials are that would allow them to run nuclear facilities (badly)? I was stunned to find out either #1 or #2 was a procurement specialist, with some background in a cable company. That gives me confidence. Are there engineers higher up? Is it all run by _____? Not that non-engineers are automatically _____, but surely there have to be people higher up with some knowledge? They don't seem to have emerged but they must be somewhere? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 12:18 AM

Minamata disease--so called because the effects of mercury poisoning were first recognized there--were in Japan in Minamata Bay. The effects were seen some (I don't remember how many) years later in Dryden, Ontario, when Native people were diagnosed as having the same symptoms. Absolutely terrible effects that can make me cry to this day. Alfred Troyer wrote the book on it. These are two very different issues, Don. Let us not confuse them.

Dryden was a town I was only too happy to leave behind. It stunk, and the pulp company that was there did nothing, with help from bastards in the Ontario government. The crippling effects should make any thinking person ashamed, but it didn't and still hasn't. There were only about thirty people or so involved. They were people who ate fish from the narrows, and because there IS an accumulation of mercury in the folks at the 'top' of the food chain, that being humans, we paid the price for their arrogance. I think the fuckers should be shot.

I am not a believer in capital punishment, but sometimes there are exceptions. They are some of those exceptions, my peace/love friends notwithstanding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:07 PM

I just saw video of the water leak from yesterday compared to today. Today instead of a gusher 9 inches round it is a 1 inch spour of water. CNN

They said the stresses are continuing to mount at the reactors.

The worst case scenario of many reactors melting simultaneously remains a possibility.

There has been outside help fromt he US Navy and teams of NRC and others. France is said to be contributing some help.

Yes as it is today it is a disaster. Tommorrow could bring world wide calamity whether people are told or not.

Japan has suffered grim birth defects from mercury poisoning alongits shores contaminating the fish. The level of contamination form Fukushima AND Daiachi is unthinkable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 10:27 PM

Good news, Q.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 09:56 PM

I read somewhere the facility (didn't know it was a ship) was funded by Japan. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 08:56 PM

Radioactive water has stopped leaking into the sea after gravel beneath the concrete pit was hardened after pouring 1500 liters of the hardening agent, liquid glass, into the gravel.
Tepco, April 6.
Low-level radioactive water continues flowing into the sea to make space for higher-level radioactive water.
Tepco is trying to control radioactive dust by spraying a synthetic resin around the reactors. The company reports success with this operation.
NHK world news, April 6, 2011.

Sand lance (a fish) fishing has stopped off the Ibaraki coast because the radioactive caesium in the fish reached 526 becquerels (limit is 500).
The high levels of caesium and iodine are believed to have been leakage from the reactor, according to the NISA (Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency).
NHK April 5.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 08:33 PM

Jack-

"Russia says Japan has asked it to send a radiation treatment ship used to dispose of liquid nuclear waste from decommissioned submarines. The ship, called Suzuran, treats radioactive liquid and stores it."

Interesting that the Russians would have something like that. I wonder if it really works or simply sucks it up and then regurgitates it into someone else's back bay. But I like the name of the ship, the Suzuran; it will work well in the song.

I was thinking that the barges would be towed to some on-shore facility that was properly designed for processing and compacting radioactive water. But I'm not even sure if they have one in Japan. Why would they need one when nothing like this is likely to happen?

There's no reason for other countries to be smug. Their own redundant back-up systems may also be equally vulnerable to natural or terrorist events.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 08:02 PM

Don, buddy, cmon eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:47 PM

Japanese engineer: "When designing a nuclear plant we do not look at scary things we do not want think about, its just human nature"


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:25 PM

From the BBC today:

Russia says Japan has asked it to send a radiation treatment ship used to dispose of liquid nuclear waste from decommissioned submarines.

The ship, called Suzuran, treats radioactive liquid and stores it. Russia was considering the request, a spokesman for its nuclear agency said.


So, they're a long step ahead of what I suggested. I didn't know there were ships like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:25 PM

I think we have to not look at this as a democracy, which is pretty recent...but as remnants of a feudal system.

The farmer serfs..oh well.

Worker serfs..just keep them locked up in the plant to do or die.

Fisher serfs..oh well.

Baby serfs..so sad.

Mama-san and Papa-san serfs .. we do not have to tell them bugger all or provide food or water for days and days. It is OK to lie to m and p serfs. What do serfs know anyway? mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:21 PM

They have submitted plans for more reactors same spot

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/amid_nuclear_crisis_japans_tepco_planned_new_reactors/2011/04/05/AFtBbfkC_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage

Granted..it was in the works and you could see how it could slip through in the ensuing chaos...but it sounds like they really pushed for it as the crisis was going on..and still is.

I just can not wrap my head around this. But they have to go. The most they should be allowed to do is clean new energy. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:06 PM

Barges or tankers COULD work if necessary, but tanks are much more logistically possible at present... or a combination. I think it's just logistics, as I said earlier. If the world wants to contain the crap it can. Heck, the Japanese could do it if the rest of the world wanted to take one for the team and not take delivery of tanks on order in lieu of saving the planet (yeah, I know... but it's a small world innit?). All it takes is the will and the money and they have said they have lots of money. There are lots of tanks under construction at any given moment all over the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:43 PM

Tow them somewhere else? Puget Sound? (Opposite side of the country from you, Charley.)

The idea is not likely, because they would have to be emptied (into what?) and decontaminated before other use or scrapping. They would be pariahs anywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:37 PM

What is the latest on filters?

And here is something

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/05/tokyo-electric-power-company-turns-toxic


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:32 PM

I miss the press updates from UCS. None since Thursday.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 04:20 PM

mg-

They may not be able to approach close enough with a large tanker in the adjacent bay. However, an oil barge might well suit their purposes, if they didn't sink it. They're already using barges to transport fresh water to the plant site. So barges could certainly be towed in, unload their fresh water and then load up with the evil radioactive water, becoming so much more nuclear waste themselves in the process, and then be towed somewhere else.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 03:17 PM

They are talking about tanker trucks I think to store the bad water in..why not oil tanker type ships. Surely someone has some about to be scrapped. Or that should be and are still sailing. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 03:01 PM

What is your problem with them using bath salts as a tracer, if it works? - which it appears to have done.

One piece of instrumentation they might be using is partly composed of earwax. It just happens that earwax is the ideal substance for the job, however silly you might find the idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 02:09 PM

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110405x1.html

From Japan

We will hopefully be able to laugh about some of this in the future..the milky white bath salts instead of professional, easily obtainable dyes in standard usage for example.

Now they plan to board up the sea to make an enclosed lagoon. By board up I presume they mean with boards. Well, lots of them available. Where are the experts? Where is the military? Do they not have a navy? An air force? Can the "procurement" experts step it up a bit?

mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 01:33 PM

Safety concerns? Try safety inspections..widely reported they were falsified and people had to resign and they shut down a number of plants..easily verifiable...

And the president is or was in the hospital. Don't know if it was him or next in command...but I would assume engineers would be at the top. No, it was someone who had been in charge of procurement. Now this makes their utter inability to procure simple things, like food, even more astounding.

I do not know if they have some sort of specialized knowledge that keeps them at the helm..they are concealing it well if there is..but they need to be told what to do and when. And face the law as soon as possible. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 01:32 PM

Too true Q. And, I have found the propensity for such in a corporation is directly proportional to the size of the corporartion. Which may explain why the government departments (Canuck, at least) are so incompetent and wasteful.

I've posted this on other threads... I was once told to design a structure (I designed for a 40 year life but could have designed for 20 and still slept at night) for a 5 year life because the CEO had a 5 year contract. Now, 5 years for this structure was impossible but so was the attitude of the VP. He didn't give a shit about life cycle costs, only about the "costs" until he retired.

Another thing that I found was that some managers would not take ideas upward as they didn't want to be seen as not having done their jobs better in the past.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 01:22 PM

Q-

I like your outline of the issues relating to the different levels within a hierarchy. The corporate culture of TEPCO will certainly get some much needed attention.

In this case, with TEPCO, we're somewhat aware of how the entire hierarchy got stressed after the earthquake and tsunami, and stressed further as the disaster continues to unfold. We don't know who or what group (or whether they were replaced) was put in charge of trying to deal with this disaster.

What we don't know is how well it functioned in "normal operating condition" except for the incidents in its history. Were safety concerns of those at the operating level overlooked by those higher up?

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 01:07 PM

Note:

An established LEGAL LIMIT
carries with it an established cost risk benefit in which a certain number of acceptable deaths is deemed legal.

Do not let the words legal limit ever become equated with SAFE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:59 PM

A bit of digression. Many ideas for product or safety improvement may not reach the decision-makers. Suggestions being made here, and many others, may have been thought of and proposed, but died on the way to the decision makers.

I was thinking about the structure of the average corporation.
There often is a disjunct between the objectives at the decision levels in the hierarchy. From the top:

CEO and Board
These men usually habe proven ability to maximize shareholder shareholder profit and expansion. They may have little detailed knowledge of the company's products, whether widgets or resources.

Heads of Operations
These men may have risen from the technical ladder, but most often are from the business management divisions- marketing, finance.
Their decisions are based on the upper level's need (shareholder profit and expansion) although they depend on the chiefs of the divisions producing the product or resource.

Divisional Operations
These groups have the technical manpower with the expertise to develop and improve the product, or to find and exploit the resource.
Although they are the basis of the company, they are not concerned with the marketing, presentation, politics of the product or resource. Usually there is a group that considers the safety of product and employees and makes recommendations for improvement.

A division at the base may have a good idea, which they present to their management heads. It may be accepted and presented to the next level, or it may be shelved- budget, set-up expense, price, outside the scope of a directive from on high, etc.

Heads of operations organize and present the product, resource development or safety provisions to the Board and CEO, whose decisions are based on marketability, economy of operation, fit to shareholders needs, politics, etc.

The technical employees at the bottom thus often see an idea, product or safety recommendation die or be shelved, never reaching the top of the hierarchy.

Some companies try to establish good communications among the levels but some are rigid and comunication is discouraged or punished. TEPCO may have been a member of the latter group.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:52 AM

gnu-

"Radioactive cesium" in fish is a major health problem. As mentioned somewhere above Cesium-137 has a half-life of 30 years or so, and remains dangerous to roughly ten times that period. It tends to accumulate in the bodies of whoever eats it (other fish, raptors, or humans) rather than being discharged. Thus, over time, it becomes an increasing threat to life as we know it.

"TEPCO said the figure had dropped to 200,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter, or 5 million times the legal limit, in samples taken at 9:00 AM Monday."

And that's the good news...

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:50 AM

Kudos to all here who help counter the lie by posting real time data


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:48 AM

"Somehow water is leaking from the plant into the sea"

"It seems that radiation has spread with the normal wind currents but radiation is a normal part of the universe"









Am I the only one who is outraged by this kind of rhetorical propoganda ?


It seems protecting the concept of a same sustainable economy is the paramount reason to lie with such elegance words as "somehow" and "seems" For Fukwitt's sake, didn't you see and hear reactor 2 EXPLODE? Talking about how safe radioactive Iodine is...is horrible crime. Speaking of how Iodine goes away quickly to the exclusion of talking about the isotopes that virtually NEVER go away is a despicable lie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 10:57 AM

NHK

The operator of the crisis-hit Fukushima nuclear plant has injected a hardening agent beneath a leaking concrete pit in a bid to stem the flow of highly radioactive water into the sea.

The firm says the leakage seems to be decreasing, following the infusion of the hardening agent.

The utility showed reporters a photo of the leak on Tuesday evening, saying it indicates such a decrease.

TEPCO said it will infuse another 1,500 liters of liquid glass.

Tokyo Electric Power Company started infusing liquid glass into gravel below the pit near the Number 2 reactor at 3 PM on Tuesday.

TEPCO spotted a crack in the pit 3 days ago while trying to find the source of the leakage of contaminated water into the Pacific Ocean.

Since then, the utility has tried in vein to seal the pit with concrete, or to plug piping leading into it with a polymer mixture.

A test using a dye agent showed the possibility that the radioactive water is leaking from a cracked pipe, and then seeping through gravel into the concrete pit.

TEPCO is planning to board up the breached sections of an offshore dike to prevent the tainted water from spreading further into the sea.

It is also considering building underwater barriers at 3 locations, including one near a water intake for the Number 2 reactor.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 20:24 +0900 (JST)

And the pics show a much reduced flow.

Small fish caught in waters off the coast of Ibaraki have been found to contain radioactive cesium above the legal limit.

Ibaraki is south of Fukushima prefecture, where the crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant is located.

Ibaraki Prefecture says 526 becquerels of radioactive cesium was detected in one kilogram of sand lances. The acceptable limit is 500 becquerels. It is the first time that higher-than-permitted levels of radioactive cesium have been found in fish.

All local fishery cooperatives in the prefecture have agreed to suspend sand lance fishing at the request of the prefectural government.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 18:58 +0900 (JST)

The operator of the stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant says 7.5 million times the legal limit of radioactive iodine 131 has been detected from samples of seawater near the plant.

Tokyo Electric Power Company, or TEPCO, found on Saturday that contaminated water was leaking from a cracked concrete pit near the No. 2 reactor.

Experts say this makes it clear that highly radioactive substances from the reactor are flowing into the sea, and that the leak must be stopped as soon as possible.

The utility firm said samples of water taken near the water intake of the No. 2 reactor at 11:50 AM Saturday contained 300,000 becquerels of iodine 131 per cubic centimeter, or 7.5 million times the legal limit.
TEPCO said the figure had dropped to 200,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter, or 5 million times the legal limit, in samples taken at 9:00 AM Monday.

Monday's sample also contained 1.1 million times the legal limit of cesium 137, which has a half life of 30 years.

On March 27th, 13-million becquerels of iodine 131 per cubic centimeter of water were detected in the turbine building of the No. 2 reactor. On Wednesday, water was found accumulated in a tunnel near the turbine building and the radiation level on the surface was measured at more than 1,000 millisieverts per hour.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says it believes the radioactive substances are from nuclear fuel which leaked from the reactor into the water and flowed out.

Tuesday, April 05, 2011 15:10 +0900 (JST)


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 09:04 AM

Evidently no one here is making any effort to review reports of Japan's nuclear industry and TEPCO's particular history of accidents and cover-ups. One recent review via AP was filed two weeks ago and it is a damning report: click here for article

Here's an excerpt:

"Behind Japan's escalating nuclear crisis sits a scandal-ridden energy industry in a comfy relationship with government regulators often willing to overlook safety lapses.
Leaks of radioactive steam and workers contaminated with radiation are just part of the disturbing catalog of accidents that have occurred over the years and been belatedly reported to the public, if at all.

'"Everything is a secret,' said Kei Sugaoka, a former nuclear power plant engineer in Japan who now lives in California. 'There's not enough transparency in the industry.'
Sugaoka worked at the same utility that runs the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant where workers are racing against time to prevent a full meltdown following Friday's 9.0 magnitude quake and tsunami.

In 1989 Sugaoka received an order that horrified him: edit out footage showing cracks in plant steam pipes in video being submitted to regulators(emphasis added). Sugaoka alerted his superiors in the Tokyo Electric Power Co., but nothing happened. He decided to go public in 2000. Three TEPCO executives lost their jobs."

Wikipedia has similar incidents summarized for TEPCO over the years (lower down in same link) and it's obvious that TEPCO's management of its facilities is substandard if not criminal. Check it out if you have your doubts.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 07:07 AM

4,080 becquerels pr kg found in small fish (no limit for fish but 2,000 is limit for veg):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12967904


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 05:36 AM

I'm also surprised that the TEPCO engineers didn't have a team working on at least increasing the storage capacity on-site for the huge volumes of radioactive water they were running through the damaged reactors and the spent fuel pools.

They seem to have more problem collecting the water after it ran through than in storing it. IF they could have sucked it all up again, I suppose an empty oil tanker might do it (obviously they can't construct anything that big with the time they've got). But when it's all just running through cracks in the foundations, what else can they do but what they're doing now?

The priority has to be preventing a worse fuel melt (which could make the whole site inaccessible and send it on the path to total flaming
disintegration). They have to accept a certain amount of escaped coolant water to achieve that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 03:30 AM

According to Ken'ichi Kunisawa, (see linked article), the TEPCO workers and troops near the hot zone are putting their lives at risk to do what they can to get the situation under control. Having some outside group get in there uninvited, some outside group that's new to the situation would just add to the CF that seems to be going on. The folks I'd want to speak with were it my decision would be the firefighters and other personnel who worked the Chernobyl incident back in the 1980s. They've been there and done that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 02:14 AM

Sorry I misspelled your name Charley.


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:29 AM

They must be shoved aside, and I mean at gun point if necessary, and have someone else take over..military, NATO, I don't know who...they are absolutely incompetent and lives have been lost and if no more lives are lost it will be a miracle...this is a public health nightmare, an environmetnal nightmare, an economic nightmare, and just wait until fish in North Korea are inedible for a starving population. Put as much pressure on through world opinion as possible. It is the only hope. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 10:32 PM

I'm also surprised that the TEPCO engineers didn't have a team working on at least increasing the storage capacity on-site for the huge volumes of radioactive water they were running through the damaged reactors and the spent fuel pools. It should have been evident early on that there was a problem being created. In fact I even anticipated this problem much earlier in this thread in one of my posts.

One might also think that after the water had cooled down in a tank or trench that it could be recycled and used for cooling again, another basic but useful concept that would add another cycle of radiation but wouldn't dump it into the bay.

But, no, someone decided that the bay was there as a source for emergency cooling and for a dump for radioactive waste.

TEPCO's decisions seem a classic example of short-run thinking generating long-run problems. And I bet everyone in the board room is ducking for cover.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Nuclear plant disaster looming
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 09:32 PM

About 2000 tons of fuel plus the radioactive water (which is heavy)
probably is close to 10000 tons of deadly mess


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