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BS: Well done the RAF & Navy

Bonzo3legs 11 Mar 11 - 10:18 AM
Bonzo3legs 11 Mar 11 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 11 Mar 11 - 08:22 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 11 - 04:38 PM
Bonzo3legs 10 Mar 11 - 06:28 AM
Teribus 10 Mar 11 - 12:20 AM
InOBU 09 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM
InOBU 09 Mar 11 - 07:21 PM
Teribus 09 Mar 11 - 12:41 PM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Mar 11 - 07:54 AM
Keith A of Hertford 09 Mar 11 - 07:32 AM
Les from Hull 09 Mar 11 - 05:07 AM
InOBU 09 Mar 11 - 01:17 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 11:31 AM
Les from Hull 08 Mar 11 - 10:54 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 08 Mar 11 - 08:03 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 07:56 AM
Bonzo3legs 08 Mar 11 - 07:55 AM
GUEST,Observer 07 Mar 11 - 07:15 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 11 - 03:41 PM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 11 - 03:24 PM
InOBU 07 Mar 11 - 12:31 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 07 Mar 11 - 12:06 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 07 Mar 11 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,999 07 Mar 11 - 10:45 AM
Bonzo3legs 07 Mar 11 - 10:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Mar 11 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,Observer 07 Mar 11 - 04:24 AM
InOBU 06 Mar 11 - 06:02 PM
Les from Hull 06 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM
InOBU 05 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM
Keith A of Hertford 05 Mar 11 - 12:37 PM
InOBU 04 Mar 11 - 10:54 PM
Les from Hull 04 Mar 11 - 07:19 PM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 04 Mar 11 - 11:05 AM
Bonzo3legs 03 Mar 11 - 04:11 PM
Les from Hull 03 Mar 11 - 02:31 PM
Keith A of Hertford 03 Mar 11 - 04:58 AM
GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) 02 Mar 11 - 06:24 AM
Arnie 02 Mar 11 - 06:04 AM
Brian May 01 Mar 11 - 07:49 AM
Teribus 01 Mar 11 - 12:56 AM
J-boy 01 Mar 11 - 12:43 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Feb 11 - 04:47 PM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Feb 11 - 04:43 PM
Les from Hull 28 Feb 11 - 03:51 PM
Dave Hanson 28 Feb 11 - 03:10 PM
Leadfingers 28 Feb 11 - 12:30 PM
Bonzo3legs 28 Feb 11 - 10:47 AM
Dave Hanson 28 Feb 11 - 08:56 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:18 AM

I gather that the type of visa held by the oil worker determines whether Libyan Tax is deducted by the Oil Company - not straight forward!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:17 AM

No, a great many oil engineers are out there because it's what they do - which involves being stuck in some god forsaken hole in the desert for weeks on end. I believe Libyan tax is deducted at source, and in any case due to the number of days out of the UK each year, they would elect to be non-resident for tax purposes, and accordingly such earnings would not be liable for UK tax.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 08:22 AM

I think we all agree that the RAF and Navy did a remarkable job. Perhaps, however, the question of whether they should have been sent out to rescue a load of people, many of whom would have been attracted by high, tax-free salaries, who would themselves have chosen to go and work in a country with a repressive regime, is perpaps another one.

And don't you bloody start again, Lorcan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 04:38 PM

I would agree Bonzo, they did do an absolutely marvellous job despite all the best efforts of British Governments since 1980. Put it all down to the "Can Do" attitude of our armed forces that the British Government and the shallow bunch that pass for professional politicians have relied on for decades.

As to the relevance of events that happened 65 years ago it should serve to reinforce the old adage that "Those who forget the past are condemned to relive it"

- We were bloody lucky at Dunkirk
- We were bloody lucky in the Falklands
- We have just been bloody lucky in Libya

And it is high bloody time that people realised it. The state of our armed forces and the defence capability of the country have been paired down over decades while money has been thrown hand over fist at Education (Not only to no visible beneficial result but to obvious deterioration), at the NHS (Not only to no visible beneficial result but to obvious deterioration), at Welfare (Not only to no visible beneficial result but to obvious deterioration)

The last Labour Government breezed out the door laughing at the fact they had spent all the money - That should have come as no great surprise as every Labour Government since Atlee's in 1951 has done exactly the same to ever increasing degrees, the reign of Blair and Brown taking the biscuit.

Our Senior Officers in all three services should tell the public schoolboys in power at present, "OK son we got away with it this time, but only just, it could have turned pear-shaped on us badly because of your bloody cuts and everybody could have been killed. The lesson - Never again - Until you lot get us back on an even keel and that means re-investment, re-equipping and a solid recommitment from Government, this one to be enshrined in Law, because we will hold you to it."


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 06:28 AM

The RAF and Royal Navy have done a great job in evacuating British people from Libya in very difficult circumstances.

WW2 finished 65 years ago and is of no consequence to current events in Libya.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Mar 11 - 12:20 AM

Interesting article InOBU. Which tells us that:

1. The request was made to the US to bomb the sites as only the US 15th Air Force once established in Italy had the aircraft to reach those targets

2. That Winston Churchill actually backed the proposal

3. That the RAF did attempt to supply the Warsaw Uprising of the aircraft sent carrying some 60 tons of supplies only 7 made to their destination (They had to fly on to land in Russia)

4. The Mosquito did not have the range or the bomb load. The precision targets you mentioned were buildings where the purpose of the mission was to knock walls down to allow prisoners to escape and to kill Gestapo personnel inside and destroy files. It would not then matter if the damage was repaired afterwards

5. Repairs to any damage would have been repaired in hours

Conclusion: To undertake these raids would have been a complete and utter waste of time and effort.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:31 PM

Hi Les: I have no more respect for the history of our Quaker faith than any other works of humanity. We claim ownership of the Underground Railroad, however, we neglect to remember it was an unpopular minority of us which took that risk. Most of our Meetings then, did not grant full membership to Black Americans untill the early part of the 20th century.

It is dangerous to pat ourselves on the back... it leads to blind patriotism.

As to the crack about Mormans... well... no, we are not much like the Mormans, we did not massacre settlers and blame it on Native Americans. We generally kept to our treaties, but even then, the famous "Walking Treaty" was pretty much a scam.

This is why Quakers don't have parades, and should not dwell on our good works, seldom do we or anyone else deserve group praise. Save it for those who really put their lives on the line, alone and against the tide, such as the few diplomats who saved Jews and others when their governments forbid them to do so, for example Congressman Hyram Bingham - whose career in politics never fully recovered from his smuggling Jews and Freethinkers out of France in spite of the US forbiding him to do what his soul demanded.

Parades, fireworks are fun, but in my opinion more dangerous than they are worth. I think we would do better to reward soldiers with jobs and peace. National leaders opt for parades as they are cheaper than jobs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:21 PM

Rail line bombing debate... Here is an intersting note on the Death Camp bombing debate. One might consider as well, how mosquito bombers where used to attempt to save some members of the French underground from being exicuted... Jews never figured highly in the US or British war effort.

By the way, you are absoultly right, the US in it's evacuation left huge numbers of Vietnamese, who were individualy targeted to their fate... "superpowers" tend to use people then turn their backs on them. Fact is we should never have been in Vietnam in the first place, just as Britain and the US should not have interfered with the growth of democracy in Egypt on the behest of BP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 12:41 PM

There was no order ever given to bayonette French troops or any other troops during the evacuation from Dunkirk. Were soldiers being evacuated controlled during boarding? Of course they were otherwise it would have been complete and utter chaos.

I take that InOBU's authoratitive "Author" and historian detailed how many French soldiers were bayonetted? Naw? Thought not.

As for requests to bomb the rail heads and junctions near the death camps:

1. It could only have been done in daylight as someone else has pointed out.

2. It would not have done the war effort any good at all.

3. It would not have stopped the slaughter

4. As most of the death camps where the "final solution" was put into operation were all in central and eastern Poland they were therefore way beyond the range of RAF Bomber Command. Berlin, Leipzig and Dresden were about as far as the RAF could reach from bases in the UK with any sort of reasonable bombload.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:54 AM

Were Vietnamese soldiers ever given precedence over US troops during the evacuation of Saigon?


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 07:32 AM

The evacuation was no secret.
How could it be?
Thousands of French WERE evacuated, and Britain welcomed in thousands of Jewish refugees from the Germans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Les from Hull
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 05:07 AM

Don't blame Britain for the failure to bomb railheads near concentration camps. Long range daylight bombing was the responsibility of the USA.

Where is the evidence for issuing an order to bayonet our French allies? Or not to tell the French?

I have the utmost respect for the Quaker movement, but passing on these rumours so long after the event is not helpful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 01:17 AM

Well... a careful reading would show, I do not think the British army should not have retreated from Dunkirk... I do think, however, that to issue an order to bayonette the French allies, and not inform them of the plans to leave was not in the best tradition of friendship.

As to Quakers being ineffectual, the point is that if the rest of the world had been as helpful in dealing with the German famine, the nazis would not have had as much fertile ground to grow.

I suggest, when you state the war against Hitler was a war to save the victims of nazism, you might read about the Saint Louis. This event and the testimony of Jewish escapees from the death camps whose pleas to bomb the rail lines were ignored by Britain and the US.

I would have you point out a single nazi death camp which was targeted for liberation - rather they were overrun as the war progressed. The lack of concern for the inmates of these camps is completly understood in light of the treatment of displaced Jews and Roma people by the British after the war. I suggest you might look into the camps on Cypress.

The fact that Britain was able to evacuate it's own people from a region it destablized is hardly anything to pat yourself on the back about. Do read about the efforts of BP and Kirmit Rockafeller in setting up the present mess in the Middle East.

As to Quakers effect on war. After nations act towords each other in brutal and sociopathic ways, and war breaks out, there is not much any passifist can do ... other than not join in the continuation of the brutality, it is a time we cannot change the world, only not be changed by it. As long as national identities are built around dressing up and marching down the street to the blare of bad music, while folks throw flowers, there is not much hope to deal with the real problems which place us on the bring of extinction.

Frankly, I think the time to pat yourselves on the back is when you help bring the world together to face the problem of imminent self destruction - not by war, but by neglect.

All the best
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 11:31 AM

Well done the RAF & Navy - They have done a great job in evacuating British people from Libya in very difficult circumstances.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Les from Hull
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 10:54 AM

It was Hitler that declared war on the USA rather than the other way round.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 08:03 AM

Forget it, Keith. He's not worth it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 07:56 AM

Do they have their own swing band like the scientologists?


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Mar 11 - 07:55 AM

Quakers - nutty as Mormons are they??


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 07:15 PM

"Britain and the US did nothing to help the victims of nazism"

Now that is about as crass a statement as I have ever heard or read considering the times and the suffering endured. Britain along with her allies were instrumental in stopping and crushing "nazism". The Quakers may have helped those persecuted by the Nazi regime in Germany but they did nothing to stop it, kind and well intentioned as they may have been when confronted with rel evil they were totally ineffective


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 03:41 PM

"If the intention was not to try and sneak away from the fighting leaving the French to face the German guns, and the call for small boats went out days sooner, then the number of French captured would have been less significant, eh? Ah well... sin e doigh (Ce la vie)"

That is a wicked smear against Chris' uncle and his comrades.
They were where they were mainly because their allies on their flanks had collapsed.
They were surrounded and cut off.
Escape or capture were the only possibilites.
The brave men who were left as rearguard on the perimeter had no hope at all.
They were required to sacrifice themselves.
The escape meant that the war could continue and ultimately led to the destruction Nazism
A good result?


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 03:24 PM

I expect you are glad that Britain and commonwealth stood against Hitler alone, right Lorcan?


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:31 PM

Hi Chris:

Always a pleasure to hear from you. I have nothing but respect for the soldiers of WWII... however a few misplaced facts. We Quakers were fighting fascism decades earlier than the governments of the world. We, for example, were involved in a massive food program to Germany during the famine between the wars, for which, the German people would not let the nazis put us in camps with the rest of the utopian religionists who faced untold horrors, ignored by the rest of the worl.
As a result, at great risk, Quakers remained in Germany through out, un-armed and rescuing Jews and others targeted by the nazi horror. Britain and the US did nothing to help the victims of nazism, until camps were over-run in the course of the war, not even bombing the rail lines leading into the camps, when asked to do so by Jews who escaped those camps, bringing evidence to Britain and the US.
No, it was not the brave soldiers, like your dad, but the government policies which were self serving and had no thought to bring about a just world, but rather claimed it was a fight to save the victems of nazism, just as WWI was claimed to be a war for the rights of small nations... as Britain bombarded Ireland from the deck guns of the Helga (if memories served).
The time to end war, is not after hostilities begin, but before they start, just as when the US sent food into Somalia and was shocked to be shot at by guns we had been pouring into that nation for years. We were shocked at the rise of nazism, while at the same time branding the Abraham Lincoln brigade members and Quakers as pre-mature anti-fascists.
And, by the way, yes Ireland sent her children to Spain, on both sides. The Replicans sent troups to the 15 Int. brigade to fight along side of the US reds, while Fin na Gael sent the blue shirts to fight with Franco and Hitler (remember the Swastika cleaner lorries in Dublin in the seventies???)
Our war against fascism began in the 1620s. We Quakers did not support the American war of "independance" - which was in fact a war against Pitt's attempts to stop importation of slaves by cracking down on smuggling booze (the sugar tax, tea was thrown into the harbour as sugar was too valuble...) We fought against fascism by putting our lives on the line helping Black folks steal themselves out of slavery. We fought against fascism by sending food to the North Vietnamese while 45,000 young Americans died in a meaningless war.
So, again, it is not your father who I have little reguard for, it is the sociopaths who lead us into war for their own profit again and again, and we go puppies because a major industrial power can get it together to get their citizens out of a crumbling third whorld power - in a region devistated by the wars which start with the CIA and BP.
Discussions like this are much better had over a pint or two, no offence meant. It is just that I have seen war up close and it is a sickness which we best be rid of. And yet, we keep attempting to end wars with war, and keep expecting a different outcome ( one discription of mental illness.)
All the best
NO PASSARAN!
Is mise, le meas, a mhic, Slan agus beannact
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:06 PM

And by the way, after the war he served for another 20 years in the Irish Army (Including seeing action in the Congo and Cyprus). He was buried with military honours at the Curragh in 1985. Irishmen who volunteered to fight fascism (and they were all volunteers) did a lot more for Irish freedom than any amount of smart-arse yanks.

Like I said...


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 12:00 PM

InOBU

Funny you should mention Dunkirk. My uncle was there. He signed up to fight Nazi Germany so that American Quakers like you would have the freedom to take the piss out of him. No need to thank him. He's not around any more.

Now fuck off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,999
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 10:45 AM

"Please keep to the subject."

Surely you jest!


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 10:43 AM

Please keep to the subject.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 05:38 AM

France was already defeated.
It was lost.
The British would either be captured, or escape to CONTINUE the fight.
The British army did escape and then, with the Commonwealth fought on alone for the next two years.

When boats were in danger of being overloaded force might have been used against any nationality of soldier to keep order.
As many French and others as possible were taken off to continue the fight from Britain.

It is true that Britain later attacked and the French fleet, killing many French sailors, to stop the Germans getting the ships.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 04:24 AM

"a written order was issued commanding that French troops be embarked in equal numbers with the British. In practice this was not carried out."

Well the figures supplied by Keith A of Hertford show that they were not too shy of the mark

198,229 British Troops rescued along with 139,997 French and other nationals, and I do not suppose that circumstances in Dukirk and along the evacuation beaches were such that immaculate firness and order could prevail in the midst of bombing attacks and straffing runs by German aircraft. I would also tend to think that for the average French squaddie inside that perimeter that he would be most concerned with getting home to look after family and loved ones as opposed to escaping to England to continue the fight.

Les from Hull also makes a good point regarding the inshore ferrying operations from beach to the larger vessels lying offshore, they would be noted as having been rescued by the larger ship, it was after all a rescue mission not a competition. The smaller boats would only be "credited" with the soldiers brought back on the final trips, after all no point in them returning empty.

The book you refer us to InOBU would appear to be biased in outlook and very poorly researched. Probably written with controversy in mind to cynically create a publicity bubble to promote sales.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 06:02 PM

Well... he is not the first and only sourse to uncover the order to bayonet the French or the firing on French soldiers... If the intention was not to try and sneak away from the fighting leaving the French to face the German guns, and the call for small boats went out days sooner, then the number of French captured would have been less significant, eh? Ah well... sin e doigh (Ce la vie)
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Mar 11 - 08:53 AM

26,500 men not significant? Really?

The job of the small boats was mainly to go close inshore and pick up men from the beaches and ferry them to the larger vessels who could not get close inshore. So who does that count as a rescue for?

I wouldn't put much credence on the work quoted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 06:31 PM

Here is a good little piece, credits below...

The evacuation from Dunkirk, codenamed "Operation Dynamo, " commenced on 26 May. It was originally hoped that up to 45,000 men might be rescued. The actual total came to 338,000 men.
Lord Gort was instructed not to inform his French and Belgian colleagues that the evacuation was beginning. South-east of Dunkirk the British withdrew their units, leaving seven French divisions alone to face the advancing Germans. The French fought on until their ammunition was exhausted and managed, like the Belgians, to tie down German forces that would otherwise have been available to assault the perimeter of Dunkirk.
As British and French troops retired toward Dunkirk, Admiral Sir B.H. Ramsay organized the sea lift to England. After the French government protested, a written order was issued commanding that French troops be embarked in equal numbers with the British. In practice this was not carried out. Harmon records that when Frenchmen tried to board boats on the beach, Royal Navy shore parties organized squads of soldiers with fixed bayonets to keep them back. On at least one occasion a British platoon fired on French troops attempting to embark. Only after practically all the British had escaped were efforts made to evacuate the remaining French soldiers. But when the port surrendered to the Germans on 3 June, over 40,000 French soldiers were captured.
Perhaps the most memorable aspect of the evacuation was the role played by civilians in their small boats. Harmon explains that this is just part of the myth. The British public was not informed that an evacuation was underway until 6pm on 31 May. A Small Vessels Pool, based on Sheerness, did assemble a large number of small civilian craft. But most of them were useless for evacuation work. Only on the last two days of the withdrawal did civilian volunteers play a role in rescuing an additional 26,500 men from the beaches. Their contribution, notes the author, "was gallant and distinguished; but it was not significant in terms of numbers rescued."
From:
The Miracle of Dunkirk Reconsidered
CHARLES LUTTON
Dunkirk: The Patriotic Myth by Nicholas Harmon. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1980. 271 pp. with appendices


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Mar 11 - 12:37 PM

Dunkirk evacuation.
In the nine days from 27 May-4 June, 338,226 men escaped, including 139,997 French, Polish and Belgian troops, together with a small number of Dutch soldiers, aboard 861 vessels (of which 243 were sunk during the operation).


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 10:54 PM

Hi Chris B:

We Quakers are not big on nations getting us out of trouble, we gennerally do rather well, as we are known for our good works in places the US and Britain have, well, been less than popular.

I agree, the US is not great at evacuations, remember Vietnam? I frankly backed the other horse in that particular race.

As to British evacuations, I seem to recall British soldiers fireing at the French trying to get into the boats at Dunkirk... and showing them their bow fingers... ah well...

But as far as being evacuated by the British... well... it was rather crowded on the boats when your lot left much of Ireland... so my family decided to stay awhile.

CHeers,m'dears
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Les from Hull
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 07:19 PM

We've still got an aircraft carrier (Illustrious), just haven't got any fixed wing aircraft to put on it.

Anyway it did seem that France would come in on the deal. But not the 'Mercans. Sounds just like Suez!


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 11:05 AM

Fortunately for Cameron, Britain has an operational aircraft carrier in the Mediterranean. It's called Cyprus.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 04:11 PM

I think that Cameron could have consulted with the Government of Malta or the countries with an operational aircraft carrier before promoting his no-fly zone.

What makes you think that he hasn't?


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done toperational aircrahe RAF & Navy
From: Les from Hull
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 02:31 PM

I think that Cameron could have consulted with the Government of Malta or the countries with an operational aircraft carrier before promoting his no-fly zone. It's a long way from UK airspace!

And this would have been considered a declaration of war by Gaddaffi as any fule kno.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 04:58 AM

And the rescue of the young aid worker in Afghanistan last year.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:24 AM

InOBU,

Speaking from a second-generation Irish perspective, if I were ever in peril overseas (for whatever reason) I'd certainly want anyone coming to rescue me to be from the British armed forces. The Israelis also used to be good at this sort of thing but given the way they handled the landings on the relief ships last year I'm not so sure now.

As for other countries' forces, the Russian approach seems to be 'Kill everyone and let God sort it out' and as for the Americans - well, am I the only one who remembers the Iranian hostage 'Rescue' in 1980? Thought not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Arnie
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 06:04 AM

How ironic that Cameron announces that the UK is backing a no-fly zone over Libya, and a few hours later Liam Fox the defence secretary announces 11,000 forces to be axed - including RAF pilots and ground crew. Today Cameron seems to have gone cold on the idea of a no-fly zone but has instigated a review to see what would be involved. Unlike Bliar, Cameron seems to have realised that the UK can no longer be a world policeman. Shame he opened his mouth before he put his brain into gear but at least he is now backing down rather than sending what's left of our forces to the Med. As the US and other Nato allies don't seem too interested either, it looks like the Libyans are going to have to sort this one out for themselves. The best we can do is to help out with humanitarian aid at the border crossings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Brian May
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 07:49 AM

Hitting 'defence' spending is always the easy option, because by the time you realise you've got it wrong, it'll be too late to do anything about it.

Mind you, the French will protect us . . . they might even lend us and aeroplane so we can play with our new super-duper carriers.

I believe the lunatics are running the asylum (politicians of all flavours, it really doesn't seem to matter what colour tie they're wearing).

I notice there's a deafening silence from Labour and that nice Mr Bliar regarding Libya. I wonder if he's had the grace to squirm with discomfort.

For once I have to agree with the outrage of (mainly American) relatives of the PanAm 747. I really DON'T understand how the Americans can tolerate Bliar, he was up to his neck in the Megrahi release.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 12:56 AM

"The Con/Fuckwit coalition have already exhibited breathtaking shortsightedness, whatever next ?"

Hate to bring the point up Mr.Hanson but the last real Defence Review we had that did actually look at Defence was in 1998 Now who was it that point blank refused to fund it, then raided our coffers to the extent that agreed programmes had to be curtailed?

The last SDSR was Gordon of Cartoon's idea but was deferred until after last May's election. The mess that Labour left the country in meant that it was never going to be a review of strategic or defence needs or requirements it could only ever have been a cost cutting exercise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: J-boy
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 12:43 AM

Shouldn't the Royal Navy have at least one Yellow Submarine?


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 04:47 PM

October 2008
Last week, Dmitry Medvedev, the Russian president, announced a dramatic rearmament programme that would see the construction of new missile defence system and the mass production of warships and multi-purpose submarines.

Vladimir Putin, the prime minister, also announced that defence spending would increase by 27 per cent next year to £54 billion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 04:43 PM

Unless you are at all concerned that Russia has embarked on a huge re armament programme


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 03:51 PM

HMS Cumberland is primarily an anti-submarine frigate designed to operate against Soviet submarines. Not so much use for her now!


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 03:10 PM

Ah yes bonzo the tory/fuckwit apologist.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 12:30 PM

ANY comment on Auntie Beeb about a possible rescue flight would have alerted Gaddafi and could have jeopardised the mission !!


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 10:47 AM

The same shortsightedness perhaps that if elected, a labour government may have also made!!

A double subjunctive!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Well done the RAF & Navy
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Feb 11 - 08:56 AM

The Con/Fuckwit coalition have already exhibited breathtaking shortsightedness, whatever next ?

Dave H


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