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BS: Middle East Unrest

GUEST,Patsy 21 Mar 11 - 10:26 AM
robomatic 20 Mar 11 - 04:24 PM
Little Hawk 20 Mar 11 - 10:01 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Mar 11 - 09:17 PM
bobad 19 Mar 11 - 09:02 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Mar 11 - 08:55 PM
Little Hawk 19 Mar 11 - 07:09 PM
GUEST,number 6 19 Mar 11 - 06:55 PM
Little Hawk 19 Mar 11 - 06:53 PM
bobad 19 Mar 11 - 06:52 PM
GUEST,number 6 19 Mar 11 - 06:50 PM
Little Hawk 19 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM
robomatic 19 Mar 11 - 06:37 PM
bobad 18 Mar 11 - 09:39 PM
bobad 26 Feb 11 - 10:50 AM
GUEST,999 22 Feb 11 - 11:50 AM
bobad 22 Feb 11 - 11:44 AM
bobad 22 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,999 22 Feb 11 - 11:11 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 Feb 11 - 10:42 AM
bobad 22 Feb 11 - 10:30 AM
Bobert 20 Feb 11 - 09:37 PM
bobad 20 Feb 11 - 09:12 PM
Brian May 20 Feb 11 - 05:35 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 20 Feb 11 - 03:37 AM
bobad 19 Feb 11 - 11:00 PM
Ed T 14 Feb 11 - 06:30 PM
MarkS 13 Feb 11 - 02:23 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 12 Feb 11 - 04:11 PM
Dorothy Parshall 12 Feb 11 - 01:57 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 11 Feb 11 - 04:54 PM
bobad 04 Feb 11 - 08:27 PM
Stringsinger 04 Feb 11 - 05:51 PM
akenaton 04 Feb 11 - 02:12 PM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 04 Feb 11 - 11:19 AM
bobad 04 Feb 11 - 10:45 AM
olddude 04 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM
bobad 04 Feb 11 - 10:07 AM
Steve Shaw 04 Feb 11 - 05:22 AM
akenaton 04 Feb 11 - 05:01 AM
Little Hawk 03 Feb 11 - 10:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Feb 11 - 10:03 PM
Steve Shaw 03 Feb 11 - 07:58 PM
Stringsinger 03 Feb 11 - 06:43 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Feb 11 - 10:00 PM
Little Hawk 02 Feb 11 - 04:36 PM
Little Hawk 02 Feb 11 - 04:05 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Feb 11 - 02:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 02 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM
bobad 02 Feb 11 - 11:37 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 21 Mar 11 - 10:26 AM

I see Gadaffi is using the term 'Crusades' to win support from the Arab states and his own. He must be desperate if he is using that tactic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 04:24 PM

The problem with that attitude is it's utter instability. The tendency to side with whoever happens to be getting the boot assures a constant seesaw of attention and an urge to help whichever side is afflicted currently. This is the dark side of sympathy for the underdog and tends to create a longer lasting situation which might be good for the grandstanders and some news outlets but is not very good for the people involved.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Mar 11 - 10:01 AM

It's the old "we are the real victims here" story again... ;-) Hitler used that kind of bitter story (with some, but not nearly enough, justification) to rouse millions of angry Germans to go out in the late 30's/early 40's and conquer Europe. The old "victims" become the new oppressors, given half a chance, and they do it by deadly and effective military action. That has happened again and again throughout history, the old dog that was kicked by someone has turned into the new conqueror of some other poor dog that gets kicked in its turn, and it's been happening since 1948 in the Middle East.

The real victims are always those who are presently under the boot of a dominating foreign military power and are virtually helpless to do anything about it. That was the Jews in 1936 (approx) to 1945.

But who would it be now? Israelis or Palestinians? Who is virtually helpless and who is being dominated now?

You don't remain the world's number one victims forever. ;-) It can change easily, just like wearing a different hat. And it does change, usually in the wake of some war. But people get in the habit of yelling, "We're the real victims here!" to justify beating up on someone else and stealing their land, and they don't give up such convenient habits easily when those habits have propelled them to a place of wealth and worldly power and great political influence over the affairs of great nations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 09:17 PM

Sure. I note the fundamental depth of your shallowness.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 09:02 PM

Pavlov's finding is confirmed once again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 08:55 PM

"Fifty mortars and rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza yesterday."

Well Christ, they don't half have a lot of catching up to do, don't they?
Did you also give us daily reports about deliberate targeting of Israeli children by Israel, twenty innocent kids murdered by snipers on the border in a year, about the use of white phosphorus, about the bulldozing of Gaza villages, about the besieging of Gaza leading to widespread privation, starvation, lack of building and medical supplies for one and a half million people, about the bombing of hospitals, power stations and water works, about the deliberate targeting of UN buildings, about the hundreds of thousands of cluster bomblets still lying around in southern Lebanon able and ready to blow kids' legs off, and would you like me to go on?


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 07:09 PM

I would not want the job of sorting it out, that's for sure. What a mess.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:55 PM

Exactly L.H.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:53 PM

As if it weren't complicated enough already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:52 PM

Hamas appears to be trying to divert attention from the mass demonstrations occuring in Gaza.

Fifty mortars and rockets were fired into Israel from Gaza yesterday.

Students at the university and citizens calling for political reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah have been beaten by Hamas authorities.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:50 PM

now that the U.N. has sanction military intervention in Libya (basically allowing the U.S. to seek revenge on Gaddafi) the issue with Israel will now get very complicated and the violence against humanity will worsen substantially.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:48 PM

Yes, they're dreadful people, aren't they? Downright subhuman. And they belong to a crazy religion too. Why don't we just take most of their original land from them by force, settle it with our own people, then seal them off into a crowded sort of wretched ghetto area, surround it with heavy firepower, cut them off from most of their needed supplies, and slowly starve and exterminate them all so they stop making trouble? (The Palestinians, I mean...)

Hell of a good idea, eh? ;-) A final solution to the Palestinian problem is really what's needed here to make the decent people (meaning Jews and Christians) safe.

(satire alert!!!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Mar 11 - 06:37 PM

I could not but notice that in the midst of the concerns with Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya, the Palestinian Authority had the thought that NOW was a particularly necessary time to petition the United Nations for a resolution against Israel, which the U S tried to divert them from. With their incredible sense of approprateness the Palestinians insisted and the U S had to vote 'em down.

And most recently, Hamas has made war against Israel. IS making war against Israel from the Gaza territory.

As was observed many years ago by Abba Eban, the Palestinians miss no opportunity to miss an opportunity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 18 Mar 11 - 09:39 PM

The unrest in the Arab world spreads to one of the most oppressive countries, Syria:

"Syrian security forces killed three protesters and wounded hundreds in the southern city of Daraa on Friday, rights groups said, as demonstrations erupted across the country in the first major show of discontent under Bashar al-Assad's rule."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/03/2011318231622114396.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 10:50 AM

The New Middle East?


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:50 AM

His request will ensure one or two people hit the streets.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:44 AM

Gaddafi says he will not leave Libya, he will fight to the last drop of blood and die a martyr. We can only hope that this comes to pass before more citizens are slaughtered. He is also exhorting those who love him to go out into the streets and confront the protesters, a clear incitement to civil war.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:25 AM

Al Jazeera English: Live Stream


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 11:11 AM

Don`t hold your breath, bobad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 10:42 AM

Israel provokes outrage here for rather less.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 10:30 AM

I note the absence of 1000 post threads trumpeting outrage at the atrocities of North African and Middle Eastern dictators as they slaughter their populace in a desperate bid to cling to power....strange that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 09:37 PM

Revolution ain't pretty...

I hate it if even one person dies... My heart is with the revolutionaries... I very much want them to succeed...

My country is in the beginning stages of some kinda civil war... We are deeply divided and with what is going on in Wisconsin I can see that we are headed toward violence... I mean, I am old to have been part of the 60s and wise enough to see that this isn't going to turn out well here in the US of A...

But while it sickens me to see dictators order their armies to kill people who want jobs it also reminds me that we are not all that far different here...

Our people want jobs, too, but the Boss Hogs don't much care what the people want???

Sound familiar??? Seems that a world revolution is upon us and I welcome it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 09:12 PM

"Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi's son, Sayf al-Islam, has warned of civil war in the country.

He said that the government would "fight to the last bullet" to stay in office."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Brian May
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 05:35 PM

One wonders if the silent majority have woken up.

Time will tell, I suspect the current rulers have no idea of what has been unleashed, it's back to sow the wind and reap the whirlwind.

If they DO want freedom and nobody is going to manipulate them I can only wish them the best of luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 20 Feb 11 - 03:37 AM

I've just been watching the news coverage of this, hearing a local doctor saying there are too many dead to be counted, and how horrified she is at what's happening over there...

The newscasters can't believe it either, yet...Col. Gadaffi's been off his rocker since he came into power, imo.

I think, of all the dictators who are about to fall Gadaffi will be the one who'll hang on the longest and do the most damage to his people.

I hope I'm proved wrong though, because it takes incredible guts to stand up against a man so off the planet as Gadaffi is....and his troops have been brainwashed for a very long time, but maybe they'll draw strength from the Egyptian Army and end up protecting the people, rather than killing them in vast numbers as they're now doing.

May Allah have mercy on those poor people, and may their sacrifices not be in vain...Inshallah


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 19 Feb 11 - 11:00 PM

"Libyan troops have opened fire with machine-guns and large-calibre weapons on anti-government protesters in the second city Benghazi, witnesses say.

An unknown number of people, including children, are said to have been killed."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12516156


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Ed T
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:30 PM

Jewish prayers for Egypt's uprising


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: MarkS
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 02:23 PM

"But no matter what the character may be of Egypt's next regime, we know at least that it can't be worse than the one just deposed."

Iranian opinion may differ.

I recall a quote from Walpole regarding public opinion in England before the war with Spain in the 1800s: "They now ring their bells but they will soon wring their hands."

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 04:11 PM

Here's the blue clicky:

Meet Asmaa Mahfouz and the vlog that Helped Spark the Revolution


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 12 Feb 11 - 01:57 PM

I could not make a blue clicky but the URL below is for a very interesting video by an egyptian woman.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgjIgMdsEuk&feature=email


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:54 PM

Joyous scenes in Cairo today. Let's hope the euphoria is not premature. But no matter what the character may be of Egypt's next regime, we know at least that it can't be worse than the one just deposed. And for Egyptians there is the satisfaction of knowing that their reviled pharoah was humbled at last.

The hope must be that democracy will prevail, forcing the US to rethink its foreign policy and Israel (if it has any sense) to rethink its national security strategy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 08:27 PM

Eighty year old author and activist Nawal El-Saadawi "thugs were bribed with 50 pounds and a chicken to beat us"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM1scxpmbWQ


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 05:51 PM

Real democracy is what's going on. Unrest is what these dictators have created for their people.

It's about time they were called out.

Unrest is what the U.S. is creating in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 02:12 PM

You're like a fuckin' good comedian Jim!.....keep it up son, you're one of the best "turns" on Mudcat..:0)


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 11:19 AM

I `ad that Mubarak`s agent in my cab the other day. I could tell `e was the McCoy `cos of the sand in `is `air and and a promo leaflet for the Pyramids sticking out of `is pocket.
`e said, " Allah Ahkbar, Jim. Could you take me to the Egyptian embassy please. I`ve got to `ave a word with the guvnor so`s I can tell the
press where `e`s at."
I said, "Blimey Ali. With all them shenanigans going on out there you`d a thought `e`d a-got the message and would be `aving it away on `is toes."
`e said, "All in good time, Jim. `e`s still got some serious dosh to move to Switzerland and the Internet Banking is down in Egypt at the moment. That lot that did a runner from Tunisia `ave put `im up to it!!"

Whaddam I Like??


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 10:45 AM

The reporters are saying that the army is keeping the goons away from the protesters which is a good sign as they were just standing by the last two days as the thugs were attacking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: olddude
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM

Insanity, I think the whole country is walking around with a big white bandage on their head. Everyone you see in the crowd has a knot on their noggin from getting beaned by a rock. This morning the entire crowd stopped dropped to the ground to pray, then got up and started pelting each other with rocks again.

Somewhere there is a US corporation making lots of money selling baskets of rocks I think.

I tell you what though, if I owned a major league baseball team I would go there scouting. Some of those guys can throw a rock harder and faster than most I have seen in the big leagues.

Good grief, seriously though I sure hope it soon comes to a peaceful solution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 10:07 AM

Dramatic live feed from Liberation Square, Cairo: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/live-egypt-video-day-departure/


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 05:22 AM

The US philosophy of "democracy overseas" is that it had better be democracy run by friends of ours in just the way we want, otherwise we'll do our damnedest to undermine it with whatever dirty tricks we can. There are plenty of citizens of Chile, central America, Algeria, Gaza and many other places who would attest to that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 05:01 AM

We also, despite the crocodile tears support the repressive government.
Why now do we start whining about the benefits of Democracy!
The democracy we planted in Iraq has produced some twisted and deformed offspring....so it shall probably be in Egypt.

The Egyptian people should be left to determine their own future, but the joke is, that we really hate true democracy or anything approaching it.

Western Democracy is a misnomer......it is a series of manipulations effected by an electoral system.....there can be no real democracy while economic and social pressures are being brought to bear on the electorate.
I cite how we the people, ar referred to as being culpable in the recent capitalist systemic failure, without being in possesion of any of the facts of the case.
Already the US is at work organising a "suitable" government for the Egyptian people!


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 10:18 PM

The well-to-do in a country generally support the status quo under a repressive government. Why wouldn't they? I gather, however, that most Egyptians are not among the well-to-do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 10:03 PM

Expect the conflict between Mubarak supporters and the protesters to continue.
Interviews with the well-to-do show that most of them support the Mubarek regime.
Suleiman and Mubarak will continue to resist, hoping that the protests will lose momentum. There may be a few talks with various groups, but none will reach agreement.
In the September elections, some temporary appointments to reform leaders (but not to el Baradei, who has no party).

I am not optimistic about real change.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 07:58 PM

The thugocracy releases it's thugs -- I hope they hang the bastard.

So, meet thuggery with thuggery then? I see that irony is totally lost on you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 06:43 PM

What they want is a good idea, freedom from tyrannical leaders, freedom from corruption in their political process, economic security, jobs, freedom from US domination, and oh yes democracy which would be good to introduce to the United States.

What is going on with the Pro-Democracy movement in Egypt is inspiring.

Would we in the US could have more people in the streets.

The Left is officially dead in the U.S. and the so-called Right is Wrong.

Obama is the waffle pres.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 10:00 PM

I forgot the other big player in the Mideast, Royal Dutch Shell.

Iraq produces about 2 million bbl/day.

A petrodollar is a U.S. dollar earned by a country selling petroleum.
OPEC oil is quoted in dollars, hence a demand for dollars on international exchange markets.

The U. S. dollar is a medium of exchange; Canadian dollar, yen, Euro, whatever have the value assigned by currency traders at the time a transaction takes place.
Canada is the largest oil exporter to use the term "dollar" for its currency, hence these are also termed petrodollars.

Why is the U. S. petrodollar considered important to the American economy? It amounts to a long term no interest loan.

It suits the oil industry to trade in a single currency, thus most oil is bought and sold in dollars.

Iran's market has abandoned the dollar. Others will follow.
The U. S. dollar is still the world's reserve currency, but if the U. S. continues to decrease in world trade, other currencies could take over.

In the Middle East, the backing of the dollar by the Saudis is considered firm, so no change by OPEC is expected.

Russia and China talk about a change, but nothing firm on the horizon at this time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 04:36 PM

Here we go. Here's an article about what I was referring to in regards to the marketing of Iraqi oil:

Dollar vs Euro - Weapons of Mass Destruction


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 04:05 PM

Yes, BP.

I'll have to look and see if I can find an article about what I was alluding to regarding the US dollar being used as the official currency for the Mideast oil transactions.

I consider the USA and the UK (and their biggest corporations) to really be a single player in this game...that is, the Anglo-American axis (which includes my country, Canada, as well as Australia). It is that group of Anglo nations which are working together in the world as what amounts to an Anglo-American axis. The historical centre of power was once in London, but it has since set up additional power centres in New York and Washington. I find it ironical that a USA which once fought a revolution against the British Empire has now become, in effect, the virtual reincarnation of the British Empire, under a new flag and a new set of governmental institutions. Like the British once did, the Americans now possess the world's greatest navy and the world's longest military reach, and the sun never sets on their coporate holdings. The British are still very much involved in the imperial game, but they are playing second fiddle to the USA in that regard....a sort of junior partner. Still, I think London continues to exert major financial influence in the running of the great game.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 02:31 PM

Little Hawk, you forget Total, BP, the other large EU companies are the big boys in the region, and the American dollar is just another medium of exchange in the region.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM

I think Mubarek will be successful. The people have little to defend themselves with, and the will for change will remain just that.
The September election will provide a few placebos, but the army generals will still control the country.


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Subject: RE: BS: Middle East Unrest
From: bobad
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 11:37 AM

The thugocracy releases it's thugs -- I hope they hang the bastard.


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