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BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot

olddude 20 Jan 11 - 06:52 PM
akenaton 20 Jan 11 - 07:21 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 11 - 07:28 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 07:40 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 08:01 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 11 - 08:49 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 08:58 PM
Ron Davies 20 Jan 11 - 10:54 PM
EBarnacle 20 Jan 11 - 11:46 PM
Bobert 21 Jan 11 - 06:52 AM
EBarnacle 21 Jan 11 - 09:17 AM
olddude 21 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM
Bobert 21 Jan 11 - 12:34 PM
olddude 21 Jan 11 - 12:39 PM
bobad 02 Sep 11 - 11:00 PM
Bobert 02 Sep 11 - 11:17 PM
Stilly River Sage 02 Sep 11 - 11:48 PM
artbrooks 03 Sep 11 - 06:31 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM
bobad 03 Sep 11 - 08:22 AM
Greg F. 03 Sep 11 - 09:34 AM
artbrooks 03 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM
bobad 03 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM
Stringsinger 04 Sep 11 - 12:45 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:52 PM

The gun is the preferred tool by most because it is readily available in most states .. Changing the tool .. and you still have the carnage. Yes we need to fix many states gun laws ... they are insane. But lets fix the person also or figure out how many more coffins we need to buy.

I read where there was proposal to have to blow into a device before you can start your car , some said make it mandatory on all cars... this would prevent drunk drivers .. well for people who have a DUI they should never be allowed on the road again. But because of "loose" laws that vary from state to state they keep getting their license back with a slap on the wrist .. and people die because of it ... But I sure ain't gonna say it is the cars fault either.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:21 PM

Does anyone know what the lady's views on gun ownership were?

If she was in favour of the status quo, surely as a policy maker she bears some responsibility for the deaths and her own serious injury.

At least as much responsibility as is being heaped upon Mrs Palin.


And olddude, I never cited responsibility for the shootings on the fact that SHE owned a gun, rather in her belief that guns should be freely available


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:28 PM

"... it is your contention then that we do nothing to identify these types of people..."

Oh, NO! I HAVE agreed that it's a fine idea to do all that we can to improve identification and treatment of mental illness! I think I could find at least 3 posts of mine in the last 2 weeks showing I consider it an important part of solving the problems... all I have said is that we will never run out of disturbed people!
   When I was a kid, I remember reading of Howard Unrauh, a veteran who shot a bunch of people in New York in the 1950s. He was fine...until he WASN'T fine. And there are many, many who are not considered clinically 'crazy' who would just as soon shoot you as look at you.

   I am ALL FOR treating ALL forms of mental illness...but I do NOT wish to wait until most of them are cured or confined to feel safe from most guun violence. (There have been shootings within a couple of miles of me the last few years...robberies and family violence..etc. Most of those folks were not 'ill'...but just stupid and greedy and lazy)


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:40 PM

Ol'ster, it's like this... You wake up and you find that someone has slashed all yer tires... Replacing one with the spare ain't gonna fix squat...

We have a complex situation here and we are ignoring all the components...

We have a gun problem...

We have a mental health problem...

We have economic problems...

We have have a poverty problem...

We have a drug problem...

We have a problem with folks who think that government is the enemy problem...

We have a problem with the way we communicate...

We have a problem with our Congress...

We have a problem with our schools...

I mean, until our country is willing to take a hard look at our problem*s* then, yeah, we will continue to be a civilization in decline...

Hillary Clinton in her book "It Takes a Village" understood this very well... It does take a village... It will take all kinds of things to fix this country... Not just guns tho that is a good starting point...

We used to fund "Midnight basketball"... Remember that??? In areas where it was funded the crime and killings went down... It wasn't an expensive program by George Bush cut the funds for it...
And crime went back up...

Hey, this really is the crux of the dilemma that faces America... The right says that the government should be shut down except for fighting wars and the left says it ain't doin' enough... Meanwhile, while the right continues its 40 year stranglehold on power and access to the media, the US is slipping down in every statistic that is good and skyrocketing in all the ones that are bad...

That is reality...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:01 PM

They should never be freely available and I will agree with that 100%. We don't let people drive without first passing a test but in some states you sure can have a firearm, and that you bet is insanity and I will agree with you on those points. I just want to figure out how to find and stop these guys from getting to this point. I guess I don't know what the answer is


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:49 PM

Dan... it should be clear that there IS no one, simple answer... we need to address many issues at the same time, and we should not take any option off the table when the safety and confidence of our citizens is at stake. Happy, sane, competent people who do not fear each other is a worthy goal to aim for...but when have we ever had this?   
   If we can reduce violence by 10%, it is a good start...maybe we can figure out how to make that 20% after awhile.....if diagnosing and treating mental problems get better, and regulating weapons & ammo gets smarter, we just may get some indications what works BEST.

I sure hope so!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:58 PM

We sho nuff had it in the mid to late 50s, Bill... I don't remember anyone I knew getting shot... Might of fact, folks didn't have all the guns they have today... You had a problem with another kid then you duke it out... Period...

But like you and I have now pointed out... We've gotten ourselves in such a pickle that it's gonna take alot of things to get US out...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 10:54 PM

Still waiting for--anybody--to tell us why people not in the military or police need semi-automatic pistols.

They are used--and abused constantly--to kill people.   The incident I cited yesterday is only one of a never-ending series.

If there is a good reason for normal citizens to have them, let's hear it.

I'm not even talking about pistols in general, just semi-automatics.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:46 PM

In re: the comment that the Congresswoman was skilled with a glock. She could have carried it had she chosen to. In this situation, unless she reacted instantly, it probably would not have saved her.

She did not exhibit the the fear and distrust that makes it necessary for many to carry a weapon in public, either openly or concealed. I hope that does not change.

I am not convinced that the current interpretation of gun rights will stand at the Supreme Court level. At some point, the whole of the phrase "well regulated militia" will come to dominate the interpretation of the second amendment.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 06:52 AM

I've never heard one single gun nut even bring up the first portion of the 2nd amendment...

Not one and I live in the gun nut capitol of the universe, Virginia...

Go figure???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 09:17 AM

According to this morning's news, she is well enough to be moved to a rehab facility.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM

In the 1950's there were virtually no gun laws Bobster, you could order a .45 cal pistol right from guns and ammo magazine delivered right to your door. yet like you say, shooting were so rare. What changed, drugs, gangs, a rise in mental illness. In states like mine we have the hardest gun controls in the nation, In DC all guns of every type banned. Yet the killing continues. Somewhere our society changed. Now we find out what and try our best to fix it. I read someplace that if we eliminated the gun show, over 60% of the illegal guns would be taken off the street, that is a law that makes sense. I have no problem with semi - auto's the problem I have is people who are not certified and trained with them, yup that is a law we need also since those weapons require much more training than a wheel gun. complex issues here, lets start but plugging the gun show law, lets get some federal standards on concealed carry .. yup .. I am with ya ... but lets find and address those that maybe constitute a threat via early intervention. Find the money for that also. All good stuff


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:34 PM

I agree, Ol'ster... If we required people to show a certificate of training to purchase any particular gun that would be a major step forward... No certificate, no gun... I mean, there are lots of different kinds of guns and the more dangerous the more training would be required...

Closing the gun show loophole would also do alot...

But the NRA ain't gonna let such a discussion to take place... Let alone consideration...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:39 PM

I have seen sportsmen like myself leave the NRA in droves. They use to be about hunting and shooting sports, they then turned to the dark side of the force for sure for power and political gain. Now I rank them up there with Rush L. Very few sane people support their entire position. About the only thing good about them is their safety courses are still first rate ... everything else ... forget it


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:00 PM

The Republican Party in Arizona's Pima County, which is represented by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), is in the midst of a fundraising raffle, $10 per entry.

The prize: the same model of gun that delivered a near-fatal blast to the Democratic lawmaker's skull outside a Tucson grocery store in January.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/01/gop-in-giffords-district-holds-raffle-for-glock/


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:17 PM

Normal...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:48 PM

Bad taste knows no bounds, does it? I'd love to be Moe to their Curly - and deliver the dope slap they deserve. :)



SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:31 AM

Different model, different caliber, same brand.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM

"The gun is a Glock 23, an updated model of the Glock 19 Jared Loughner used during his January 8, 2011 shooting spree that killed six and injured 13 others, including Giffords."


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:22 AM

"The gun is a Glock 23, an updated model of the Glock 19 Jared Loughner used during his January 8, 2011 shooting spree that killed six and injured 13 others, including Giffords."


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:34 AM

Lordy, Lordy, ya gotta love them Tea Potty folks, dontcha? What a sense of humor!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM

Well, no - the Model 19 is a 9mm concealable model and the model 23 is a .40 cal. full-sized one. They both came out in July 2010; neither is an undated model of the other.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM

I am just quoting from the article -- the point is moot however.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:45 PM

Whoever wins the raffle gets to shoot the next congressperson. You think I'm kidding?


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