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BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot

Stringsinger 04 Sep 11 - 12:45 PM
bobad 03 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM
artbrooks 03 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM
Greg F. 03 Sep 11 - 09:34 AM
bobad 03 Sep 11 - 08:22 AM
GUEST 03 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM
artbrooks 03 Sep 11 - 06:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 02 Sep 11 - 11:48 PM
Bobert 02 Sep 11 - 11:17 PM
bobad 02 Sep 11 - 11:00 PM
olddude 21 Jan 11 - 12:39 PM
Bobert 21 Jan 11 - 12:34 PM
olddude 21 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM
EBarnacle 21 Jan 11 - 09:17 AM
Bobert 21 Jan 11 - 06:52 AM
EBarnacle 20 Jan 11 - 11:46 PM
Ron Davies 20 Jan 11 - 10:54 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 08:58 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 11 - 08:49 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 08:01 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 07:40 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 11 - 07:28 PM
akenaton 20 Jan 11 - 07:21 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 06:52 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 06:36 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 06:29 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 06:29 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 06:23 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 11 - 06:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 20 Jan 11 - 05:40 PM
olddude 20 Jan 11 - 05:40 PM
Wesley S 20 Jan 11 - 05:33 PM
akenaton 20 Jan 11 - 05:20 PM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 04:51 PM
akenaton 20 Jan 11 - 04:29 PM
Bill D 20 Jan 11 - 11:55 AM
TIA 20 Jan 11 - 11:31 AM
Bobert 20 Jan 11 - 09:01 AM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 20 Jan 11 - 12:19 AM
Ron Davies 19 Jan 11 - 10:19 PM
Bobert 19 Jan 11 - 07:44 PM
artbrooks 19 Jan 11 - 07:42 PM
TIA 19 Jan 11 - 06:07 PM
TIA 19 Jan 11 - 06:07 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Jan 11 - 04:18 PM
mousethief 19 Jan 11 - 04:06 PM
GUEST,TIA 19 Jan 11 - 03:34 PM
GUEST,Guest from Sanity 19 Jan 11 - 03:19 PM
Bill D 19 Jan 11 - 01:56 PM
Bobert 19 Jan 11 - 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Stringsinger
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:45 PM

Whoever wins the raffle gets to shoot the next congressperson. You think I'm kidding?


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:51 PM

I am just quoting from the article -- the point is moot however.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:39 PM

Well, no - the Model 19 is a 9mm concealable model and the model 23 is a .40 cal. full-sized one. They both came out in July 2010; neither is an undated model of the other.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:34 AM

Lordy, Lordy, ya gotta love them Tea Potty folks, dontcha? What a sense of humor!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:22 AM

"The gun is a Glock 23, an updated model of the Glock 19 Jared Loughner used during his January 8, 2011 shooting spree that killed six and injured 13 others, including Giffords."


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM

"The gun is a Glock 23, an updated model of the Glock 19 Jared Loughner used during his January 8, 2011 shooting spree that killed six and injured 13 others, including Giffords."


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 06:31 AM

Different model, different caliber, same brand.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:48 PM

Bad taste knows no bounds, does it? I'd love to be Moe to their Curly - and deliver the dope slap they deserve. :)



SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:17 PM

Normal...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: bobad
Date: 02 Sep 11 - 11:00 PM

The Republican Party in Arizona's Pima County, which is represented by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ), is in the midst of a fundraising raffle, $10 per entry.

The prize: the same model of gun that delivered a near-fatal blast to the Democratic lawmaker's skull outside a Tucson grocery store in January.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/09/01/gop-in-giffords-district-holds-raffle-for-glock/


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:39 PM

I have seen sportsmen like myself leave the NRA in droves. They use to be about hunting and shooting sports, they then turned to the dark side of the force for sure for power and political gain. Now I rank them up there with Rush L. Very few sane people support their entire position. About the only thing good about them is their safety courses are still first rate ... everything else ... forget it


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 12:34 PM

I agree, Ol'ster... If we required people to show a certificate of training to purchase any particular gun that would be a major step forward... No certificate, no gun... I mean, there are lots of different kinds of guns and the more dangerous the more training would be required...

Closing the gun show loophole would also do alot...

But the NRA ain't gonna let such a discussion to take place... Let alone consideration...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM

In the 1950's there were virtually no gun laws Bobster, you could order a .45 cal pistol right from guns and ammo magazine delivered right to your door. yet like you say, shooting were so rare. What changed, drugs, gangs, a rise in mental illness. In states like mine we have the hardest gun controls in the nation, In DC all guns of every type banned. Yet the killing continues. Somewhere our society changed. Now we find out what and try our best to fix it. I read someplace that if we eliminated the gun show, over 60% of the illegal guns would be taken off the street, that is a law that makes sense. I have no problem with semi - auto's the problem I have is people who are not certified and trained with them, yup that is a law we need also since those weapons require much more training than a wheel gun. complex issues here, lets start but plugging the gun show law, lets get some federal standards on concealed carry .. yup .. I am with ya ... but lets find and address those that maybe constitute a threat via early intervention. Find the money for that also. All good stuff


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 09:17 AM

According to this morning's news, she is well enough to be moved to a rehab facility.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jan 11 - 06:52 AM

I've never heard one single gun nut even bring up the first portion of the 2nd amendment...

Not one and I live in the gun nut capitol of the universe, Virginia...

Go figure???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:46 PM

In re: the comment that the Congresswoman was skilled with a glock. She could have carried it had she chosen to. In this situation, unless she reacted instantly, it probably would not have saved her.

She did not exhibit the the fear and distrust that makes it necessary for many to carry a weapon in public, either openly or concealed. I hope that does not change.

I am not convinced that the current interpretation of gun rights will stand at the Supreme Court level. At some point, the whole of the phrase "well regulated militia" will come to dominate the interpretation of the second amendment.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 10:54 PM

Still waiting for--anybody--to tell us why people not in the military or police need semi-automatic pistols.

They are used--and abused constantly--to kill people.   The incident I cited yesterday is only one of a never-ending series.

If there is a good reason for normal citizens to have them, let's hear it.

I'm not even talking about pistols in general, just semi-automatics.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:58 PM

We sho nuff had it in the mid to late 50s, Bill... I don't remember anyone I knew getting shot... Might of fact, folks didn't have all the guns they have today... You had a problem with another kid then you duke it out... Period...

But like you and I have now pointed out... We've gotten ourselves in such a pickle that it's gonna take alot of things to get US out...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:49 PM

Dan... it should be clear that there IS no one, simple answer... we need to address many issues at the same time, and we should not take any option off the table when the safety and confidence of our citizens is at stake. Happy, sane, competent people who do not fear each other is a worthy goal to aim for...but when have we ever had this?   
   If we can reduce violence by 10%, it is a good start...maybe we can figure out how to make that 20% after awhile.....if diagnosing and treating mental problems get better, and regulating weapons & ammo gets smarter, we just may get some indications what works BEST.

I sure hope so!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 08:01 PM

They should never be freely available and I will agree with that 100%. We don't let people drive without first passing a test but in some states you sure can have a firearm, and that you bet is insanity and I will agree with you on those points. I just want to figure out how to find and stop these guys from getting to this point. I guess I don't know what the answer is


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:40 PM

Ol'ster, it's like this... You wake up and you find that someone has slashed all yer tires... Replacing one with the spare ain't gonna fix squat...

We have a complex situation here and we are ignoring all the components...

We have a gun problem...

We have a mental health problem...

We have economic problems...

We have have a poverty problem...

We have a drug problem...

We have a problem with folks who think that government is the enemy problem...

We have a problem with the way we communicate...

We have a problem with our Congress...

We have a problem with our schools...

I mean, until our country is willing to take a hard look at our problem*s* then, yeah, we will continue to be a civilization in decline...

Hillary Clinton in her book "It Takes a Village" understood this very well... It does take a village... It will take all kinds of things to fix this country... Not just guns tho that is a good starting point...

We used to fund "Midnight basketball"... Remember that??? In areas where it was funded the crime and killings went down... It wasn't an expensive program by George Bush cut the funds for it...
And crime went back up...

Hey, this really is the crux of the dilemma that faces America... The right says that the government should be shut down except for fighting wars and the left says it ain't doin' enough... Meanwhile, while the right continues its 40 year stranglehold on power and access to the media, the US is slipping down in every statistic that is good and skyrocketing in all the ones that are bad...

That is reality...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:28 PM

"... it is your contention then that we do nothing to identify these types of people..."

Oh, NO! I HAVE agreed that it's a fine idea to do all that we can to improve identification and treatment of mental illness! I think I could find at least 3 posts of mine in the last 2 weeks showing I consider it an important part of solving the problems... all I have said is that we will never run out of disturbed people!
   When I was a kid, I remember reading of Howard Unrauh, a veteran who shot a bunch of people in New York in the 1950s. He was fine...until he WASN'T fine. And there are many, many who are not considered clinically 'crazy' who would just as soon shoot you as look at you.

   I am ALL FOR treating ALL forms of mental illness...but I do NOT wish to wait until most of them are cured or confined to feel safe from most guun violence. (There have been shootings within a couple of miles of me the last few years...robberies and family violence..etc. Most of those folks were not 'ill'...but just stupid and greedy and lazy)


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 07:21 PM

Does anyone know what the lady's views on gun ownership were?

If she was in favour of the status quo, surely as a policy maker she bears some responsibility for the deaths and her own serious injury.

At least as much responsibility as is being heaped upon Mrs Palin.


And olddude, I never cited responsibility for the shootings on the fact that SHE owned a gun, rather in her belief that guns should be freely available


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:52 PM

The gun is the preferred tool by most because it is readily available in most states .. Changing the tool .. and you still have the carnage. Yes we need to fix many states gun laws ... they are insane. But lets fix the person also or figure out how many more coffins we need to buy.

I read where there was proposal to have to blow into a device before you can start your car , some said make it mandatory on all cars... this would prevent drunk drivers .. well for people who have a DUI they should never be allowed on the road again. But because of "loose" laws that vary from state to state they keep getting their license back with a slap on the wrist .. and people die because of it ... But I sure ain't gonna say it is the cars fault either.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:36 PM

hell yes they make it easier, hell yes we need to fix states like you live in .. 100% agree, but the killing will continue, I make the same argument with DUI, lady 30 miles away wiped out an entire family ... 4 DUI convictions, this time she killed a whole family .. she should have been in jail after the first one ... That is my point ... sure fix the loose gun laws .. we all agree but we better do something about disturb people cause every night ya hear the neighbors afterwords saying "I KNEW something was wrong with him" God Almighty how many more need to die .. Columbine ... same thing .. after the fact everyone says how disturbed the kids were that killed all their classmates .. Yes guns make it a hell of a lot easier ... so did their pipe bomb, knives and every other thing they had on them. We need to fix this mental issues and start putting some money someplace


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:29 PM

Bill is entirely correct... Guns make things much easier... And having them around does not make anyone more safe... Studies have shown that households with handguns are more apt to have one or member of the household shot with a handgun... There is also no truth to the mythology that the NRA pumps out that handguns save lives... If you take the police out of the equation then the stats go way the other way...

300,000,000 handguns and upwards of 30,000 dieing from gunshots in the US every year...

Back to the hammer as a weapon... If Bubba comes at me with one I have a good chance of surviving, maybe uninjured... If Bubba has a gun my odds go way down... Like to zero...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:29 PM

I will disagree with you whole heartily in regard to mental illness. it is your contention then that we do nothing to identify these types of people ... again I will say root cause, you guys will say hell it is all about guns ... and the killing will continue .. I don't buy into this crap that there is no money, well ya but we better find some because more and more people are seriously disturbed ... so we better do something cause that is the real cause ... the gun is the tool, yup get a national standard, we all agree .. but you want to know what caused this tragedy, it wasn't his glock, it was his illness that everyone who saw it coming did NOTHING about it .. and then it happened


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:23 PM

bill we are in agreement, no disagreement here about some of the very loose state gun laws ... when I read someone posting she is part responsible for the tragedy because she owns a weapon I shake my head and say that is really sick thinking ...


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 06:20 PM

Dan...you have put forward this argument several times..

"But remember one thing, a sick person or a criminal will use whatever they want to kill. You don't need a gun folks. ya can cook up C-4 in your sink if you know how to do it. Lets stay focus and try to figure out how we can identify and prevent the next mental ill person from doing the same or worse. "

...but I have answered several times with a counter-argument, and I'm not sure you have given my position fair play. I don't 'think' you have directly replied to it.

When you assert that 'other things' can be used to kill, you are absolutely correct... but it avoids the point that most of those 'other things' design and function is to do things not connected to projecting a missile directly at something. Hammers & knives and baseball bats and rocks and cars and ropes and crowbars...etc... would be hard to 'restrict' or ban without making daily life quite difficult. Many countries do just fine every day with MUCH fewer weapons...in total and per capita.

....and making C-4 and similar explosives is NOT gonna be adopted by millions of amateurs, or used to rob 7-11s, or hidden under coats in gang wars.

Guns just make it all easier when someone decides, whether planned or on sudden impulse, to do harm to others.

In the Wash DC area where I live,there was a lot of gang violence and stupid shooting at nightclubs and drive-bys. One young kid was asked why he couldn't have settled his dispute by a good ol-fashioned fist-fight or something... he said: (paraphrased)"Man, that's hard...and takes too long! You got a gun, and somebody disses you, and you just catch 'em and off 'em! You don't mess around..."

With so many guns easily available, it has become just a standard way of settling arguments over girlfriends or perceived insults....sorta like stupid 'dueling' in the early colonies, but with no tedious formalities.

You KNOW that if I knew YOU were carrying near me, I wouldn't particularly worry, but YOU aren't the problem...except in so far as, in protecting YOUR privileges, you help make it easier for millions who CANNOT be trusted. If you were only defending very carefully restricted access, like Canada, the UK and many other nations, I would not type so much...but this repetition of the idea that "fixing the problem at its root" by finding and monitoring or curing all the nut cases is disingenuous.

Asserting that "guns aren't the problem..people kill people" is a worn out rhetorical device which ignores and distorts what actually happens.

*I* am not, as I said a dozen times, advocating ..."taking away every weapon in the world...", or even hunting rifles...or even YOUR guns or the guns of FULLY certified and trained and vetted people with a NEED to own them. But today there is a huge gap between sensible rules and the "wild West" where some are advocating that "if more people had guns, we'd all be safer!" THAT is self-deception and has been proven wrong...

Please... defend what NEEDS defending, but don't fall into the easy slogans that the NRA loves to hear!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 05:40 PM

As posted earlier, Congresswoman Giffords owned and was proficient with a Glock; but of course the weapon is not suitable when surrounded by a crowd.
I would guess that she would be for adequate restrictions on guns but would not favor eliminating them.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: olddude
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 05:40 PM

Ake
you should never say that, screw the guns, there are hammers all over the place also but I don't say they are the reason someone caves in the skull of another person. We cannot lose focus and think that taking away every weapon in the world is gonna make something like this not happen, that is completely wrong thinking. Anyone wants to talk to me about sane gun restrictions vs insane loose gun laws I am most everyone else will say for sure we need to limit, restrict and have tight controls on carry. But remember one thing, a sick person or a criminal will use whatever they want to kill. You don't need a gun folks. ya can cook up C-4 in your sink if you know how to do it. Lets stay focus and try to figure out how we can identify and prevent the next mental ill person from doing the same or worse. He could have just as easily ran his car though the crow also .. We need to fix the problem at its root


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 05:33 PM

"Pease correct me if I'm wrong, but a read somewhere that Mrs Giffords was "anti gun control"

If that was the case, could it not be argued that she herself contributed to the tragedy? "


Actually - No. And to claim she was would be just silly.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 05:20 PM

Thanks Bob!

Seems that American politics is just as corrupt as UK politics

Is power the only thing which motivates politicians these days....Is there no one with conviction in the centre?


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 04:51 PM

One record, Ake, you are correct... But keep in mind that we have gun control already... So it comes down to lots of ins and outs and if yer gonna be able to get elected you purdy much have to not push too hard on the NRA least they will throw enough money at yer opponent and you'll be unemployed...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 04:29 PM

Pease correct me if I'm wrong, but a read somewhere that Mrs Giffords was "anti gun control"

If that was the case, could it not be argued that she herself contributed to the tragedy?


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:55 AM

...and I'm sure **Jesus** would agree that *Tax Cuts* would stop Global Warming...and no doubt Spiro Agnew would agree.


I am so pleased to hear of Giffords' continued progress and her husband's unceasing support. This guy will 'probably' be giving up one of last two space shuttle flights in order to stay with her.
If she is able...after a time... to resume her place in Congress, I'm sure there will be rejoicing of many sorts....


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: TIA
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 11:31 AM

Nope, the one-size-fits-all theory would be that this could have been prevented by *Tax Cuts*


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 09:01 AM

The ghost of Spiro Agnew has just spoken thru GfinS....


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 20 Jan 11 - 12:19 AM

Hey, When one 'theory' after another one falls down. which THEY ALL have, (talk radio, Palin, Rush, Hannity, Obama Care, guns,...everything but the guy was a loony, acting out)you might try, the one size fits all reason for the shooting.....'Global Warming'!!

GfS


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 10:19 PM

Now this is interesting.   Not completely relevant, perhaps, but certainly related.

Student came to a school in the LA school district with a gun in his backpack--appears to have happened yesterday. Gun accidentally went off.   Fractured girl's skull, grazed boy in the neck.   She is in critical condition; he is in fair condition.

What was the gun?    Surprise, surprise, a Glock semi-automatic.

Source:   Wall St Journal, 19 Jan 2011.



So let's have our stalwart defenders of the 2nd Amendment tell us just why anybody outside the military and the police should have these weapons.

It seems reasonable that hunters should be able to slaughter all the game they want without semi-automatic pistols.

The human carnage caused by people using them is out of hand.   Even hunters should be able to see this.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 07:44 PM

Hooray!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 07:42 PM

Not, of course, that we should do anything so outre as discuss, Congresswoman Giffords, but it is worth noting that she is about to be moved into rehabilitation where they will begin the process of retraining the motor skills damaged by her injury.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: TIA
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 06:07 PM

And another one well worth checking out:

http://www.truth-out.org/files/images/cartoon011911.jpg

Tom Tomorrow


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: TIA
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 06:07 PM

Here's the link:

http://www.examiner.com/alan-grayson-in-national/alan-grayson-palin-has-instigated-violence-against-democrats

Alan Grayson


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 04:18 PM

Just so.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 04:06 PM

Tia, do you have a link for that? I'd like to use it elsewhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 03:34 PM

By former Rep. Alan Grayson:
******************************************************************
When I opened my web browser yesterday, at yahoo.com, there was Sarah Palin, smiling at me.

"Oh, God," I said to myself, "what has she done now?"

The headline was "Palin Defends 'Blood Libel'". That's interesting, I thought. What else might Palin be defending? Cannibalism, maybe?

Well, it turned out to be a report on Palin's disjointed remarks on Sean Hannity's show, regarding the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. I then watched the report. Let me summarize it for you:

Palin: I am so misunderstood.
Hannity: I am so misunderstood.
Palin: I am so misunderstood.

But there was one person who seemed to understand Sarah Palin quite well. Gabby Giffords, herself, during the health care debate. Discussing threats against Democratic Members of Congress. After the door to her office was shattered. This is what Gabby said:

"You know, for example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is the way that she has depicted it is the crosshairs of a gun-sight over our district. When people do that, they've got to realize that there are consequences to that action."

And here is Palin's blithe response, on Hannity's show: "That map wasn't an original graphic."

What is that remark supposed to be, Sarah? An exculpanation?

Even before I heard earlier Palin's whining about "misguided finger-pointing" and "irresponsible statements from people who are apportioning blame," I thought about this:

Palin came to my district, and told her people to "take me out."

Palin told people again and again, "don't retreat, reload."

The day before the health care vote, one of my five-year-old twins received a telephone death threat intended for me.

A right-wing commentator offered anyone $100 to punch me in the nose.

We received so many threats of violence from teabaggers that we started a file.

And the day before Gabby was shot, I received a postcard saying "you better get some personal protection. You could very well be getting your ass kicked soon."

Cause and effect. As Gabby put it, "there are consequences."

Of course, I wasn't the only target of these threats.

Gabby's tea party opponent held fundraisers in which he invited contributors to fire an automatic weapon.

Democrat Debbie Wasserman-Schultz's opponent conducted target practice on her initials.

Democrat Ron Klein's opponent told his supporters to make sure that Klein was "afraid to leave his house."

Democrat Frank Kratovil was hung in effigy.

Democrat Tom Perriello was burned in effigy. And the gas line to his brother's house was cut.

Democrat Emanuel Cleaver – a minister – was spat on.

Democrat Russ Carnahan had a coffin left at his home.

I could go on, but you get the point. Cause and effect. "There are consequences."

And the Republicans? The shot supposedly fired at Republican Eric Cantor's office was quickly exposed as a hoax.

As I observed on MSNBC last week, there has been a stream of violence and threats of violence by the right wing against Democrats. Gabby warned against it, and then became a terrible victim of it. Palin has instigated it, and then tried to pretend that it doesn't exist.

What do I think? I think that Gabby said it best: "We can't stand for this." We have to stand against it.

Courage,

Alan Grayson
******************************************************************


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 03:19 PM

Bobert: "Beam me up, Scotty... There is no sanity left here..."


GfS has left the room!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 01:56 PM

" We just need to get to the root of the issue, that is mental health ..."

I think I posted way back up there that mental illness and just plain dangerous people have been with us since the beginning of time.....maybe it is excess testosterone plus an unhappy childhood- who knows?
We will always have some form of disturbed and potentially dangerous people around, and there is only a limited amount we can do about them. Sure... we should try, and we should do our best to identify and help/control them, but it would be FAR easier to control/limit their access to guns...both number & type---and to ammo.
I do NOT see why laws and procedures cannot be designed to allow only certain types of guns to the 'general populace' and SEVERELY limit by screening who can legally possess other types and who can 'carry'.

   There are, simply, a lot of folks who 'just like having guns' and buy into fake logic about 'self-defense'. I heard a statistic the other day that 1/3 of deaths in 'home invasion' incidents were due to guns that were found IN the home by intruders and stolen or taken away BY the intruders! I can't easily imagine a routine where I'd feel 'safer' in my house with guns secreted about.... you just can't keep one in your hand or strapped on at all times!

There is just no way to "legislate human nature"... idiots and jerks and just plain incompetents ...(including children)... are out there in growing numbers, and in many other ways we have laws to protect us from them...highway laws, caps on pill bottles, seat belts, helmets for cyclists, restrictions on who can buy explosives, prescription-only drugs, registration of sex offenders, ankle devices to monitor parolees, ....and whole list of others. These can be nuisances, but they DO something. But closing the loopholes in gun laws are fought so hard by the NRA that some congressmen are terrified of crossing the NRA.

We can agree that there are SO many guns already out there that any simplistic 'banning' is close to impossible....but little to NO regulations? Pooh!


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Subject: RE: BS: AZ Congresswoman Giffords shot
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 12:54 PM

I agree, Ol'ster... As I have poined out, I was a social worker in "adult services" when deinstitutionalization hit and it was a nightmare then and it is a nightmare now... There just aren't the services out there for the number of folks who need them... This comes down to money and as long as we have the right owning the media then count this issue just one of many on their list of things that we are not going to talk about...

This is 100% about media ownership because, unlike the 60s and 70s when we had lots of documentaries about serious issues, the tables have turned and Boss "Rupert" Hogg has gobbled it all up and in doing so has squashed real debate... All we hear is Boss Hog's side...

B~


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