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BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?

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Ed T 05 Jan 11 - 04:44 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 04:42 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 04:41 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 05 Jan 11 - 04:14 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 04:09 PM
Lox 05 Jan 11 - 03:51 PM
gnu 05 Jan 11 - 03:07 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 02:32 PM
Ed T 05 Jan 11 - 02:19 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 11 - 02:04 PM
bobad 05 Jan 11 - 02:00 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 01:57 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 01:55 PM
olddude 05 Jan 11 - 01:40 PM
romanyman 05 Jan 11 - 01:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 11 - 01:16 PM
bobad 05 Jan 11 - 01:08 PM
Bobert 05 Jan 11 - 12:26 PM
Donuel 05 Jan 11 - 11:41 AM
Lox 05 Jan 11 - 06:15 AM
Bobert 04 Jan 11 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,mark-s (on the road) 04 Jan 11 - 08:23 PM
Ed T 04 Jan 11 - 03:48 PM
GUEST,Arkie 04 Jan 11 - 03:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Jan 11 - 02:45 PM
kendall 04 Jan 11 - 01:44 PM
GUEST,arkie 04 Jan 11 - 01:34 PM
Ed T 04 Jan 11 - 12:37 PM
Ed T 04 Jan 11 - 12:21 PM
Greg F. 04 Jan 11 - 12:08 PM
Becca72 04 Jan 11 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,kendall 04 Jan 11 - 11:54 AM
Mrrzy 04 Jan 11 - 11:44 AM
Stilly River Sage 04 Jan 11 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,kendall 04 Jan 11 - 10:23 AM
Bobert 04 Jan 11 - 10:22 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Jan 11 - 08:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Jan 11 - 08:02 PM
Ed T 03 Jan 11 - 07:54 PM
Bobert 03 Jan 11 - 07:53 PM
Ed T 03 Jan 11 - 07:36 PM
Melissa 03 Jan 11 - 07:24 PM
Ed T 03 Jan 11 - 07:11 PM
bobad 03 Jan 11 - 07:02 PM
Melissa 03 Jan 11 - 06:31 PM
Liz the Squeak 03 Jan 11 - 05:53 PM
Ed T 03 Jan 11 - 05:49 PM
Melissa 03 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM
GUEST, topsie 03 Jan 11 - 04:25 PM
Becca72 03 Jan 11 - 04:20 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:44 PM

Maybe Jim Jones made them do it?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:42 PM

However, Sandy is right, a large clap of thunder and a lightning strike in the lake would explain all of it .. very good point


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:41 PM

agree Sandy, what puzzles me is the fish


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:14 PM

The noise of thunder is caused by violently colliding molecules of super heated air from lightning and the shock wave travels outward at over 750 miles per hour. A large flock of birds hit by this would not fare well!


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:09 PM

Lox
something very bad happened and I don't buy it was a natural event. I just don't know what it was. Some company venting something in the air and water, some explosion in the high atmosphere that wasn't fireworks ... I never saw or heard this before in my lifetime either and it does concern me. I only hope they get to the bottom of it


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Lox
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:51 PM

Can someone remind me what my theory was?

Or perhaps they can direct me to a baseless or implausable conspiracy that I suggested?

No?

Right then.


Can anyone direct me to examples of this phenomena occurring in previous years?

There are fireworks displays in every city on the planet on new years eve, on fireworks night, Diwali, chinese new year etc etc etc ...

... but now suddenly, after 2000 years of fireworks displays, it is causing birds to crash into buildings in the middle of the night!

What a load of cobblers.

And coincidentally, it happened in three states within two days ... the events in Louisiana happening not on new years eve when the fireworks displays happened but a coule of days later.

That is how we know that it wasn't the fireworks - they would all have fallen on new years eve if it had been.

I have read only one implausible theory that has been seriously suggested on this thread (sorry old dude, it isn't yours) and it is the firework idea.

Bunkum!


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:07 PM

Sooo... they forgot to set their phasers to stunned?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 02:32 PM

LOL exactly bobad, what better time to test ... the sonic wave is covered up by all the horn tooting ... LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 02:19 PM

"We all know it was the aliens, so whats the problem".

Now, this is going too far.

Sarah was at home, script'in her nature show and "shootin her new years guns off far" from this location.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 02:04 PM

The latest North Korean rocket test.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: bobad
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 02:00 PM

And they would be testing this weapon at 11:30 PM on New Year's eve in a residential area?

Tin foil hat time, folks.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:57 PM

sonic weapon


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:55 PM

by the way in WWII the Germans had an experimental sound cannon that was never put to use. It exploded a charge and directed the sound waves out towards the enemy. It was proven to work but thankfully the war ended before it could be perfected. It would be the perfect weapon to test, you couldn't hear it but if it could knock birds out of the sky and fish under water.. then wow ..

conspiracy theory LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:40 PM

theory,
it was a test, we know for a fact sound waves can kill, the military has sound weapons that are used for crowd control that doesn't injure but causes extreme stress. However one of their holy grails was a sonic weapon. Sound at high frequency rates and power can make jello out of your insides and also travels through water ... hmmmmm
wonder if they finally cracked that egg so to speak


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: romanyman
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:35 PM

We all know it was the aliens, so whats the problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:16 PM

Mudcatters love baseless scenarios and implausible conspiracies.
Too bad, bobad.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: bobad
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:08 PM

"The fireworks hypothesis is nonsense.

The later Louisiana and Kentucky incidents confirm this."

????

The Louisiana and Kentucky incidents confirm nothing of the sort. Mass deaths of birds is a not uncommon occurrence, there have been at least 90 incidents reported from June to December 12 in the US, according to the U.S. Geological Service. Of these there were five deaths of at least a thousand birds.

I don't find the possibility of the fireworks explanation to be implausible.

First off, the deaths occurred at approximately 11:30 at night when the birds were roosting, so something caused them to take flight.

Second, they have very poor night vision.

Third, people in the vicinity reported hearing the sound of mass wing beats coincident with the discharge of fireworks, some of which were described as cannon crackers which are designed to be extremely loud, not unlike the noise cannons used to keep birds away from airports and crops etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:26 PM

Maybe they flew thru the airwaves of some radio station broadcastin' Bobby Goldsboro's "Honey"???


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 11:41 AM

My first thought was a micro burst that started as high as the Stratosphere and plunged down to ground level.\\Here in MD we have 3 million dead fish counted during the same time frame as the Arkansas birds. They think it is from what is called cold stress.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Lox
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 06:15 AM

The fireworks hypothesis is nonsense.

The later Louisiana and Kentucky incidents confirm this.

The trauma to the birds has been logically attributed to their impact with the ground when they fell.

I am very intrigued as to the actual reasons why they fell in the first place.

When nonsense reasons are given they arouse suspicion.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:40 PM

Ain't me, Mark... When I clean my still I let the water run right back into the ground... Plus, the Hawksbill Creek don't flow into Arkansas...

Maybe the Republicans had somethin' to do with it...

Anyone know where John "Birdkiller" Bonehead was the night of the crime???

Didn't think so... Yeah, I know... His wife said he was home cryin' over some old Lassie reruns... I doubt it...

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: GUEST,mark-s (on the road)
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:23 PM

Hey Bobert

Did you flush out your still downstream?

Naaaah. That would have made them happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:48 PM

"Test results for the Arkansas drumfish are not expected from labs for about one month".

From my past observations, lab tests on dead fish samples (expecially if the fish were not collected and preserved soon after an incident), frequently give no reliable clues to their death.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:35 PM

A direct lightning strike would cause burns and there is no sign of that as far as I know. Would it be possible for a lightning bolt to send out a force of energy strong enough cause excessive trauma?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:45 PM

Digression, but some years ago, starlings migrated north to southern Alberta, and Calgary, as summer visitors. I don't know about nesting in the area, haven't looked it up.
They were fairly common until several years ago, but they have not turned up in Calgary for some years.
Don't know what the reason was for their disappearance. If they were from one flock, some disaster- storm, pesticide, etc.- could have been responsible, but perhaps sensitivity to a cooler shift in the weather.

I remember seeing large starling flocks roosting in trees around San Antonio. Noise and other means were tried to move them on from trees in city parks. At the time, nothing seemed to bother them overmuch.

Test results for the Arkansas drumfish are not expected from labs for about one month.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:44 PM

A lightening strike would cause burns.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: GUEST,arkie
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:34 PM

We folk in Arkansas would like to know what is going on as well. Redwing Blackbirds fly over the state in large flocks and indications are that the birds fell from the sky not from nesting areas. Game and Fish studies attribute death to trauma suggesting some powerful blast of energy possibly from a blast of thunder or bolt of lightning or some other source. So far, from what I have heard, they are sticking to the theory that the fish and bird deaths are unrelated but it sure is suspicious since all occurred in a relatively short time.

Supposedly this type of mystery has occurred before in other times and places.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:37 PM

dead blackbirds Kentucky?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:21 PM

more blackbirds


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:08 PM

Obviously, a benign Providence is responsible. All part of His plan.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:05 PM

Mrrzy,
The theory I've heard is that it was a flock of birds and thus all the same species. The dead fish were about 150 miles away...still too close for comfort if you ask me.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:54 AM

Maybe the fish used up all the oxygen?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:44 AM

But WHY would fireworks only affect one species and only in one place? makes no sense to me...

And where were the dead fish located with respect to the dead birds? If there was a kind of cylinder of death, a la The Midwich Cuckoos, that would be ferrrrry interrrrrrrrrestink...


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:36 AM

Redwing blackbirds nest here also, in cattails. The male has the red shoulders and has a harem of nesting females in the area. They're charming birds, not to be confused with starlings and grackles that roost in huge commingled flocks at night in urban landscapes with trees.

There was a discussion with both the fish and fowl specialists in Arkansas this morning on National Public Radio. The results were not in for either species, so far, though they are leaning toward shock and injury for the birds. As I watch birds at my feeder mingle then suddenly leave when a shadow passes, I presume the part of the bird brain that responds to any threat isn't what caused their injuries - that is what bird metabolisms do. But if they banged into stuff, well, I suppose most people have some experience with birds hitting windows and dying, so in the dark, just about anything they hit would have the same effect.

The Arkansas River has a series of locks and dams, and the fish in question were contained in only one segment of the river. Behind the adjacent locks above and below there were no similar fish deaths.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:23 AM

Does anyone remember that old sci- fi movie titled Leviathan?
"Dead fish are washing up all along the Eastern shore.... monsters created by radiation...we are all doomed.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish- Arkansas?
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:22 AM

I heard this guy who works for the State of Arkansas Game & Fishery say that the fish kills and the bird kills were a coincidence???

Me thinks not... And how would he know if he doesn't even know what caused either???

B~


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 08:20 PM

Redwing blackbirds are summer nesters here in western Canada, preferring swampy or shallow lake conditions. They are often seen on cattails or other plants above the water level, keeping a lookout. Here, the species is not a problem with crops, although other species of blackbird sometimes are in fairly large numbers.

They migrate in the fall to the warmer half of the U. S. or farther south, probably joining with those who live there the year round. I would suspect those from Alberta would winter farther west than Arkansas, but don't know for sure.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 08:02 PM

Arkansas Game and Fish- dead fish were drumfish (bottom feeders). Some collected were sick. Some were sent to the Univ. Arkansas lab at Pine Bluff for examination. Disease is suspected. Keith Stevens of the Commission said only drumfish were affected.

The Game and Fish Commission suspects revelers shooting off fireworks were the cause of the blackbirds deaths. They were startled off their roosts started to fall about 11:30 PM. Some showed internal bleeding from collisions and stress may have killed others. No poison found.
(AP says 1000 birds, CBS says 2000, CNN says 5000.)

Above from reports in The Daily Telegraph, Jan. 3.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:54 PM

Yes, possibly Republicans, led by "Hunter Dick"


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:53 PM

Republicans...


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:36 PM

I understand. And thanks for doing that.

I was just trying to figure it out for myself, (out loud), online.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Melissa
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:24 PM

I was just adding my story to the thread, EdT.
I am perfectly ok with it not being believed. The fog thing doesn't make sense to me, but it was the Official Explanation given.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:11 PM

Melissa
My recollection, is catfish are more tolerant to low oxygen levels than other fish....and I seem to recall that (like goldfish) they can obtain some air from the water surface (unlike most fish).

If the number of catfish in the pond (was it an aquaculture operation ?) was so great that the oxygen was near depletion, it is possible that ice could limit the amount of oxygen being replenished in the pond. But, IMO the "fog thing" remains a puzzle,


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: bobad
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 07:02 PM

Necropsies on 17 of the birds show that they died from internal bleeding. The most plausible explanation so far is that they were frightened off their tree perches, where they are roosting in the thousands, at night, by explosions from fireworks and flew into obstacles such as tree branches because they don't see at night. I really hate fireworks for the deleterious effect they have on many animals.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Melissa
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 06:31 PM

The fog/oxygen thing doesn't make sense to me either, EdT..but it's what they were told. The other fish were fine, only cats died.

We are having big temp variation this winter.
Fog wouldn't have risen if the water wasn't warmish, and fish don't have a lot of options for relocating when they live in a pond.

It sounds made-up to me, but it IS what the cons dept told them.
I guess I don't know enough about it to have posted, but I thought it went along with the thread title.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:53 PM

If he wasn't occupied elsewhere, I'd suspect Spaw had let one rip....


Hope they find what happened.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Ed T
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:49 PM

Melissa That sounds very odd, especially in a short period of time.
Fog seriously robbing watercourses of oxygen (especially so quickly) also seems sketchy, if not doubtful (IMO). Water near the surface (lakes and rivers) normally has more oxygen than in deeper locations because of bacterial action. Cold water also tends to hold more oxygen than warm water. If ice formation robbed water of that much oxygen (and so quickly), few fish would survive freeze up in northern rivers and lakes...which they do. Also, fish move to other locations where oxygen levels drop, rather than hanging around for death.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Melissa
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM

My neighbor has about 30 dead catfish.
Conservation Dept said it has something to do with fog and quick temperature change..something about the fog pulling oxygen from the water and the water freezing with too little oxygen.


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 04:25 PM

Could a tornado have sucked up the water from the river and then dropped it back along with the fish?


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Subject: RE: BS: What's killing thou's of birds&fish, AR?
From: Becca72
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 04:20 PM

From what I read, the two are (believed to be) unrelated.
Also it was only red-winged blackbirds and only one species of fish (can't remember which).
Weird for sure but the tornado theory makes sense to me as far as the birds are concerned. Don't know what happened to the fish, though.


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