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Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour

DigiTrad:
PLAISIR D'AMOUR


Related thread:
Lyr Req: Plaisir d'Amour (from Nana Mouskouri) (21)


Ted Boucher 06 Sep 99 - 03:44 PM
dick greenhaus 04 Sep 99 - 12:23 AM
Ted Boucher 03 Sep 99 - 10:34 PM
Nancy-Jean 03 Sep 99 - 12:51 PM
Ferrara 02 Sep 99 - 10:46 PM
Wolfgang 02 Sep 99 - 08:56 AM
Peter T. 02 Sep 99 - 08:36 AM
Andres Magre 02 Sep 99 - 03:22 AM
Andres Magre 02 Sep 99 - 03:04 AM
Ferrara 02 Sep 99 - 02:43 AM
Ted Boucher 01 Sep 99 - 10:26 AM
Peter T. 01 Sep 99 - 09:46 AM
Murray on SS 01 Sep 99 - 01:44 AM
Ferrara 01 Sep 99 - 01:07 AM
Ted Boucher 31 Aug 99 - 06:41 PM
Peter T. 31 Aug 99 - 02:56 PM
Peter T. 31 Aug 99 - 02:06 PM
Ferrara 31 Aug 99 - 12:35 PM
Dan evergreen 31 Aug 99 - 12:25 PM
Ted Boucher 31 Aug 99 - 10:37 AM
Peter T. 31 Aug 99 - 10:07 AM
Murray on Saltspring 31 Aug 99 - 02:44 AM
Andres Magre 31 Aug 99 - 02:32 AM
dick greenhaus 30 Aug 99 - 11:21 PM
Ted Boucher 30 Aug 99 - 07:47 PM
Peter T. 30 Aug 99 - 04:06 PM
dick greenhaus 30 Aug 99 - 03:26 PM
emily rain 30 Aug 99 - 02:11 PM
Peter T. 30 Aug 99 - 12:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 06 Sep 99 - 03:44 PM

Thanks,Dick--Now I can sleep again!


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Sep 99 - 12:23 AM

Ted Boucher-

Tea and Sympathy.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 10:34 PM

No arguement from me, it all sounds good--but somebody, please! It's driving me crazy!! What was the old movie that featured this song in the story line?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Nancy-Jean
Date: 03 Sep 99 - 12:51 PM

What a lovely song to get this much attention! I have a copy of Anthologie de la Chanson Francaise (La Tradition des Trouveres aux grand auteurs du XIX siecle). I think we might consider this a safe source! Confirmed: words by Jean-Pierre Claris de Florian and music by Schwarzendorf a.k.a. "Martini". Florian, by the way, was a protege of Voltaire's and quite admired in the salons. He was considered perhaps the next La Fontaine. Martini wrote a good deal of music, but would not be known today were it not for this piece. Furthermore (are you still with me as I translate?), "Plaisir d'Amour" had a sort of double career in that it was as popular in the salons --where the hoity toity people met--as in the more folk milieux. Composer Hector Berlioz did an arrangement for orchestra in 1859; concert singers included "plaisir d'amour" as part of their repetoires from there on. The lyrics from the Andres Magre message agree with my book.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ferrara
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 10:46 PM

I first heard this, in French, when I was in college, from a native Italian named Francis Luzzatto (the one who said it just didn't sound right in Italian...)

It could be a case of faulty memory, but all these years I've thought he sang the second line as "Chagrin amoureux dure pour la vie." Maybe it was a case of his faulty memory, maybe a case of the folk process at work.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 08:56 AM

Quote: 'my source* says it was originally the French song "Plaisir d'Amour", composed in 1785 by Jean Pierre Claris de Florian and Jean Paul Egide Schwarzendorf (alias Martini il Tedesco), who initially named it "La Romance du Chevrier". '
source: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/7980/looseends1.htm

Peter, I've no idea whether this is reliable, but it sounds good.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 08:36 AM

Merci, grazie, gracias, Andres et al -- but does anyone know which is the original?
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: Lyr Add: PIACER D'AMOR / PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Andres Magre
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 03:22 AM

This copy is bilingual, I forgot to post the italian text as well. This is also almost identical to Ted's:

Piacer d'amor più che un dì sol non dura:
Martir d'amor tutta la vita dura.

Tutto scordai per lei, per Silvia infida;
Ella or mi scorda e ad altro amor s'affida.

Piacer d'amor più che un dì sol non dura:
Martir d'amor tutta la vita dura.

Finchè tranquillo scorrerà il ruscel
Là verso il mar che cinge la pianura
"Io t'amerò", mi disse l'infedele.
Scorre il rio ancor, ma cangiò in lei l'amor.

Piacer.. <>

Saluti a tutti - escamillo@ciudad.com.ar


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Andres Magre
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 03:04 AM

Dear Peter, this is the lyrics from the copy my teacher gave me. Unfortunately there is no reference to the publisher, except a page foot which reads B.A. 8814. Anyway, this is the version he sings (he is a professional tenor at Colon Theatre) and tooks for accurate.

There are minimal differences with the version brought by Ted Boucher.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.
J'ai tout quitté pour l'ingrate Sylvie;
Elle me quitte et prend un autre amant.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

Tant que cette eau coulera doucement
Vers ce ruisseau qui borde la prairie.

"Je t'aimerai"
Me répétait Sylvie.
L'eau coule encor,
Elle a changé pourtant.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

The second word quitte is also accented, but I will not use my accents because they are not seen by you and others. The other accents were taken from Ted's message and seem to be perfect. (Do you see them at quitte, repetait, change in the text ?)

Best regards, escamillo (le torero de Granada)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ferrara
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 02:43 AM

You're right, I forgot that part! -- Can't understand why, I learned it in 1963, that's not so long ago.... Haven't sung it since around 1965.

I *think* it should read "e ad altro amor s'affida," not "s'offida." I believe it means pledged herself, linked her self, "affiliated" herself with another love. But at this late date, that's half memory and half a SWAG (Sophisticated Wild-Ass Guess). - Rita F


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Subject: ADD: Plaisir d'amour (Italian)
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 10:26 AM

From my sources, the Italian text(sans repeats)

Piacer d'amor
Più che un dì sol non dura:
Martir d'amor tutta la vita dura.

Tutto scordai per lei, per Silvia infida;
Ella or mi scorda e ad altro amor s'offida.

"Finchè tranquillo scorrerà il ruscel
Là verso il mar che cinge

La pianura io t'amerò,"
Mi disse l'infedele.
Scorre il rio ancor,
Ma cangiò in lei l'amor.

Rita has a good memory, but she left out the all-important part about "Silvia infida"!

It seems to me that there was an old movie where this song figured in the story in a major way--does anyone else remember it?

Ted


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 09:46 AM

Thanks, Murray, I forgot there was a middle section. Ferrara, is that an Italian translation from the French or the original? nothing simple around here....
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Murray on SS
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 01:44 AM

The French words match the complete tune, but as I said above the American translation only uses the first bit. At "J'ai tout quitte" it'll go D G D G D A7 D E7 A E7 E7 A E7 A A7

then the first strain again. Then the middle bit, in D minor.

Dm Dm A7 A7 Dm Dm A7 -- F C7 F Bf F -- C7 -- C7 -- F -- C7 -- F -- A7 A7 Dm -- A7 Dm Dm A7

then the first strain [at least] again.


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Subject: Lyr Add: PIACER D'AMOR / PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Ferrara
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 01:07 AM

From memory:

Piacer d'amor piu' di un' di sol' non dura;
Martir d'amor dura tutta la vita. (repeat?)

The pleasure of love doesn't last more than a day
The pain of love lasts all [one's] life.

"Fin che tranquillo scorrera il ruscello
"La' verso il mar che cinge la pianura
"Io t'amero," mi disse l'infidele
Scorre il rio ancor, ma cambio' in lei l'amor

"As long as the little stream shall flow down, tranquil,
"There toward the sea which floods the beach,
"I will love you," the unfaithful one said to me --
The river is still flowing, but love changed in her!

(Repeat first part.)

If time permits, I'll look up the chords. At that point we'll also find out what I forgot or left out! - Rita F


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 06:41 PM

If the Rise Up and Sing chords only needed slight correction, you were lucky--But seriously, it would seem like your best shot would be refer to your text from "Trilby"--Which you don't have any way of getting, at this point, I'll bet--

I have been looking around to see if I could find a book of verse that has it, but no luck--


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:56 PM

It is also worth pointing out that the French words as listed don't match the tune -- notice verse 3.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:06 PM

Ferrara, I would like any clarity! Ted-- I haven't been listening to any version recently -- I have the Joan Baez version, and once sang the French version in a play ("Trilby") so I have vague recall.
Rise Up Singing has a generic version of the chords (slightly corrected by me):
D -- A7 --- D -- G - D -- A7/Bm (or G) A D G DA7D.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ferrara
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 12:35 PM

Lurking here ... I once found it in Italian and sang a bit for an art teacher who spoke both French and Italian. He said it just didn't sound right in Italian. So I'm glad to hear that the Italian was probably the original. If anyone wants it in Italian, send me a message or something. I think I even know which book it's in. - Rita Ferrara


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Dan evergreen
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 12:25 PM

Does anybody have the chords and music to this? If I just use the Elvis version, is that the real tune? What about the chords?


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:37 AM

I realized that, when you said the verion in DT was not accurate,you meant that it wasn't the same as the recording you're listening to--my text came from some sheet music, not a transcription from a recording--it might help if we knew what you were listening to--

I also hesitate to mention this, but, if you are not very familiar with French pronounciation, the words written on the page often do not look like the words that you hear, even though they are--this is just a thought and not intended as an insult--

The French might say,"The words are as they should be, it is you who are not accurate" but there are other possibilities;-)


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:07 AM

1) Thanks, Andre, I look forward to that version. I am assuming that it was an "art song" before it found its way to Joan Baez.
2) Thanks, Murray, I don't need a translation... (does ad mauseam mean sung to a mouse?) 3) Thanks, Dick -- as soon as it said "Qu'on" instead of "qu'un" , and "tant qur" instead of "tant que" I assumed that it was a phonetic copy from someone for whom (as emily said) French was not their language. So what did the original look like? I will be interested to see what Andres' teachers' version looks like.
un grand plaisir comme toujours,
, yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Murray on Saltspring
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:44 AM

The version above corrects the mis-spellings of the DT, and while it has a couple of typos of its own, it's clear enough. I have heard it sung a bit more completely in that the whole first section (Plaisir..J'ai tout.. Plaisir...) is repeated after the middle section (Tant...). I never did like the Baez version because she only used the first part of the tune ad mauseam with her English words. Do you want a translation of the song?? BTW, Martini was called 'Martini il Tedesco', "the German", because he was born in Freistadt, real name Johann Paul Aegidius Schwartzendorf.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Andres Magre
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 02:32 AM

Dear Peter, My teacher of vocal technique, Guy De Kehrig, who is French and who has a revised copy of the original lyrics, will be glad to give me a copy, then I'll post it for you. This will be next Thursday night. By the way, there is an exquisite jazz version in MIDI format, in this site:
http://members.spree.com/raimund/midi/midi
at the "jazz" section. (I still don't manage the blue clicky thingies) You may also find other versions at the www.musicrobot.com

Best regards - escamillo@ciudad.com.ar


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 11:21 PM

What's n the DT appears to have some mis-spellings. Otherwise seems to be the same version. Am I missing something?


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Subject: Lyr Add: PLAISIR D'AMOUR
From: Ted Boucher
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 07:47 PM

Here are some other, most likely better, lyrics. The music was by Giovanni Martini, an Italian Composer, who lived from 1741-1816. The lyrics were written by the most prolific poet of all, Anonymous. I believe the verse was originally Italian--


Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.
J'ai tout quitté pour l'ingrate Sylvie;
Elle me quitte et prend un autre amant.

Plaisir d'amour
Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.

"Tant que cette eaucoulera doucement
Vers ce ruisseau qui borde

La prairie je t'aimerai,"
Me répétait Sylvie.
L'eau coule encor,
Elle a changé pourtant.

Plaisir d'amour
E Ne dure qu'un moment:
Chagrin d'amour dure toute la vie.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 04:06 PM

Hey, dick would I not look at the Digitrad first????? (yeah, right). As I said in my first posting, the version in the Digitrad is inaccurate.
yours, Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 03:26 PM

If you anter Plaisir in the search box at the top left of this page, you'll find it.


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Subject: RE: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: emily rain
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:11 PM

hmm. joan recorded all the english and just the first of the french verses. the other french verses look like what is printed in jerry silverman's folk song encyclopedia, which my mom (who speaks high school french) took one look at and declared they were written by someone who doesn't speak french.

this is all i know.


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Subject: Lyrics Req: Plaisir d'amour
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 12:24 PM

Does anyone have the correct French words for this song? And any history? The Digital Tradition version is not accurate.
yours, Peter T.


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