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BS: Earn my vote in 2010

InOBU 31 Oct 10 - 06:58 PM
Rapparee 31 Oct 10 - 09:09 PM
InOBU 31 Oct 10 - 09:41 PM
Bill D 31 Oct 10 - 09:54 PM
Rapparee 01 Nov 10 - 02:23 PM
McGrath of Harlow 01 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM
Jim Dixon 01 Nov 10 - 04:10 PM
Jack the Sailor 01 Nov 10 - 04:23 PM
maire-aine 01 Nov 10 - 06:02 PM
InOBU 01 Nov 10 - 08:36 PM
Bill D 01 Nov 10 - 09:58 PM
Sawzaw 02 Nov 10 - 12:03 AM
olddude 02 Nov 10 - 11:41 AM
Jack the Sailor 02 Nov 10 - 12:35 PM
Bill D 02 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Nov 10 - 01:15 PM
Jim Dixon 02 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM
InOBU 03 Nov 10 - 08:38 AM
SINSULL 03 Nov 10 - 11:03 AM
Bill D 03 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM
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Subject: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 06:58 PM

I cannot in good conscience vote. I will not vote Republican, and the Democratic party has taken the votes which elected Obama for granted. Illegal war committed by Democrats is as wrong as illegal war committed by Republicans. Prosecution of lawyers like Lynne Stewart is as wrong by Democrats as it is by Republicans. The murder of suspects in neutral nations is as wrong when done by Democrats as when it is done by Republicans. The continued detention of Leonard Pelitier is as wrong when committed by Democrats as when it is done by Republicans. The continuance of illegal prisons off shore is as wrong when committed by Democrats as when committed by Republicans. When Democrats terrorise the peace movement by use of FBI raid, When the patriot act stands supported by a Democratic Congress, Senate and Executive branch, it is time to walk away from the party. They need to do a whole lot of the promised change to win my vote back again. Lesser of two evils is not good enough to buy something as precious as an American's vote.
We are better than they are is no reason to vote in the face of inhumanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:09 PM

So, vote Libertarian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: InOBU
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:41 PM

I'm not a Libertarian... I suppose I am slightly to the left of Roosevelt - not Teddy, who was pretty good on Union, but a little bit of a bully... But, I think our party has taken those of us who voted them into power for granted in a BIG way.
All the best,
Lorcan


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 09:54 PM

I am a bit of a pragmatist about it. I WILL vote...and I will vote mostly Democratic, as I believe they come closer to what I want than anyone else. We 'should' have 4-7 parties to reflect the disparate interests in this country and govern by coalition, much like Israel.
Lacking that, our most important current goal is to prevent the co-opted Republican party from unleashing too many of the extremist wing-nuts on the world. I don't feel that any 'not-voting' protest will do anything but make it easier for those whose goal is to ensure that ALL voting with forever go THEIR way, fueled by corporate greed and faux religious piety and gun nuts...with anti-abortionists waiting in the wings to roll back womens rights a century or so.
   I will vote...and then I will harangue and push my party to better positions and with better candidates. Maybe I'll live long enough to see some progress.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 02:23 PM

I wish all states had a "none of the above" place on the ballot for each office. If "NOTA" has a majority of the vote, the parties have to put up two NEW candidates for the office (i.e., people who have never held any office before) AND split the costs of the new election equally, to be held within two weeks of the first.

But I'm a radical.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM

There is nothing particularly radical about that. Quite a few countries have systems in which,unless a candidate has over 50 per cent of the votes, people have to vote again.

It is a bit worrying that such a high proportion of the electorate in the most powerful country in the world appear to be off their heads when it comes to politics. Not so much right-wing or left wing, more a case of running round in circles out of touch with reality.

Maybe it comes down to a matter of scale. Democracy really doesn't work too well when things get bigger than small, and the bigger things get the worse it works.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:10 PM

I agree with all your premises ("It is just as wrong...") but I come to a different conclusion. I will vote.

I believe it's important to vote even when you believe you are only selecting the lesser of two evils.

It's not hard to decide which one that is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:23 PM

InOBU

Just who are you asking to earn your vote?

If you are waiting for a party that does nothing you disagree with, you will wait forever. Politics requires compromises because constituencies are more than one person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: maire-aine
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 06:02 PM

Lorcan, I agree with every single thing you mentioned in your original post. That being said, neither of the major parties will move in that direction unless they poked, proded, pushed and pulled. That is why I joined the DP, why I ran for precinct delegate, and why I participate in county party meetings. I want the leadership of the party to know what direction I want them going.

Maryanne


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: InOBU
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 08:36 PM

My party does not pardon Rumsfeld while prosicuting Lynne Stewart. My party does not murder innocents over seas, and jail millions in my own land. I don't need to vote for a lesser evil, I have the choice not to vote for evil.
How long must we wait for a party of justice? For you comfortable many in the Democratic party, spend a minute a day, sitting alone in the dark, and multiply that by how many minutes in ten years of hopelss fear in the jails your party now supports in lands we use and claim are beyond the reach of law.
Take ten years of your life away and ask what is the lesser of two evils. If we walk out of the party, maybe they will act, work to bring us back. Frankly, I am sick of what this nation has become. A land without justice does not deserve my vote.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 09:58 PM

I'm sorry to hear that, Lorcan...but the worst ones WILL vote. As a pragmatist, I play the odds. As an idealist, you do what you must. I hope we can talk again in better times.

Take care.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Sawzaw
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:03 AM

Think about it this way. Vote out the incumbents and send a message that way.

If they don't work out vote 'em out next time.

They do anything to get re-elected. Tell them that won't work anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: olddude
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 11:41 AM

Well only for my State today and not national elections. But if I recognize any name running, I will take my chance at an unknown. This state of NY is in chaos


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:35 PM

Rumsfeld wasn't pardoned. I think that if they had a good case, it would have been pursued.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 12:55 PM

" Vote out the incumbents and send a message that way."

Why does the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" come to mind?

A vague 'slogan' used as a rule of action against some ambiguous 'them' is about as useless as wearing a blindfold in the voting booth.
SOME candidates are competent, dedicated people... and there needs to be 'institutional memory' within a legislative body in order to operate even partially smoothly. Voting out incumbents just because you are unhappy with how things 'feel' at the moment is more likely to get you a bunch of dorks who have little idea how to operate and who have 'agendas' to push.

The system is far from perfect, but if voters studied the issues and made an effort to KNOW who was running and why, even this flawed system could work reasonably well.

What we are looking at is an attempt by the MOST extreme groups to co-opt the system and make religion and money the only operable controls on how we live. I don't want that...and I will try to find a path thru the maze.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 01:15 PM

"Vote out the incumbents" might be satisfying, but it doesn't make any differennce. It just means they take turns.

One flawq with most electoral systems is that you don't have a chance to vote people out - you can only vote the other people in. It might be interesting to have elections in which people had two votes - one for and one against. You wouldn't get in if more people cast votes against you than for you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM

Hmm. It turns out that advising people not to vote is the latest new Republican political strategy.

It works like this: you target a group of people who usually vote for Democrats, and tell them they shouldn't vote.

You do this by showing pictures of prominent Democrats and claiming that they don't deserve your support because they haven't done enough to promote the liberal causes you believe in.

Never mind the fact that the people paying for these ads have been stubbornly opposing those same causes, and won't follow the "don't vote" advice themselves.

Read this editorial about "Latinos for Reform" in the New York Times:

Demonize, Then Demoralize.

Or this article at ABC News:

Latinos for Reform Head Robert de Posada Defends Controversial 'Don't Vote' Ad

And finally this article at Politico.com:

'Don't vote' advocate casts ballot


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: InOBU
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 08:38 AM

Intresting about the Republicans saying not to vote.
In fact, I have voted democrat for oh, let's see now, well over 30 years. That is why I would not vote someone out, I would never vote republican.
But in a mid term election, when the party has cotroll of two brances of the government, and does nothing it promised to get there, we need to give the party a good kick in the ass, to remind them why we vote for them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 11:03 AM

Larry,
Try voting your conscience rather than your party. I am a registered Democrat but never vote right down the party line. I agree that this election has been more than a bit disheartening. I did my homework, listened to the debates, read what I could find (but none of the vicious mailings) and voted.
Mary, who has now earned the right to bitch for the next 2-4 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: Earn my vote in 2010
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM

" It might be interesting to have elections in which people had two votes - one for and one against. You wouldn't get in if more people cast votes against you than for you."

You know, I kinda like that idea...*smile*. Fat chance of it ever getting used...but sure is tempting!


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