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BS: Language Pet Peeves

Mrrzy 24 Aug 19 - 02:08 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Aug 19 - 05:57 PM
leeneia 23 Aug 19 - 11:12 AM
Mrrzy 22 Aug 19 - 10:46 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Aug 19 - 05:00 AM
Doug Chadwick 21 Aug 19 - 03:46 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Aug 19 - 02:48 AM
Mrrzy 20 Aug 19 - 09:56 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Aug 19 - 05:51 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Aug 19 - 05:50 PM
meself 20 Aug 19 - 04:21 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Aug 19 - 02:35 PM
Mrrzy 20 Aug 19 - 08:13 AM
Mrrzy 19 Aug 19 - 09:54 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Aug 19 - 08:03 AM
Mrrzy 18 Aug 19 - 08:54 PM
leeneia 18 Aug 19 - 08:46 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Aug 19 - 08:42 PM
meself 18 Aug 19 - 08:31 PM
michaelr 18 Aug 19 - 08:21 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Aug 19 - 08:12 PM
Doug Chadwick 18 Aug 19 - 03:11 PM
Mrrzy 18 Aug 19 - 12:16 PM
Steve Shaw 18 Aug 19 - 11:36 AM
Doug Chadwick 18 Aug 19 - 10:19 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Aug 19 - 08:50 AM
Steve Shaw 18 Aug 19 - 05:50 AM
Mrrzy 17 Aug 19 - 11:50 PM
Bill D 17 Aug 19 - 08:02 PM
Steve Shaw 17 Aug 19 - 12:19 PM
Mrrzy 17 Aug 19 - 08:09 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM
Steve Shaw 17 Aug 19 - 04:49 AM
BobL 17 Aug 19 - 02:48 AM
Backwoodsman 16 Aug 19 - 11:36 PM
leeneia 16 Aug 19 - 09:34 PM
Doug Chadwick 16 Aug 19 - 04:33 PM
Mrrzy 16 Aug 19 - 03:12 PM
Mrrzy 16 Aug 19 - 01:05 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Aug 19 - 12:53 PM
Bill D 16 Aug 19 - 11:59 AM
leeneia 16 Aug 19 - 11:56 AM
Mrrzy 16 Aug 19 - 09:35 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 19 - 04:00 PM
Mrrzy 15 Aug 19 - 03:39 PM
DMcG 15 Aug 19 - 01:07 PM
Mrrzy 15 Aug 19 - 11:34 AM
Mrrzy 14 Aug 19 - 01:22 PM
meself 13 Aug 19 - 02:13 PM
Mrrzy 13 Aug 19 - 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Aug 19 - 02:08 AM

Also for you Epstein-story watchers, there is no such thing as a "doctoral-level psychologist" - either you are a doctoral- level *grad student* in psychology, or you have a doctorate and are a psychologist. If it was a grad student, just say so. If it was a psychologist, don't hedge. My guess is it was a grad student and they are hedging because it should have been a psychologist.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 05:57 PM

Now come on, yanks: "If you will..." :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Aug 19 - 11:12 AM

"and I use the term advisedly..."

I never have understood that phrase.

another one is "as it were"

What does that mean?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Aug 19 - 10:46 PM

Ooh love Stephen Fry.

Today someone said Toleration, and several of us asked, Tolerance? Apparently, not necessarily. Phooey. I am intolerational of toleration.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 05:00 AM

IMNSHO. At least that's a bit more honest. I rather like "in m'humble...". Very Stephen Fry-like!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 03:46 AM

IMHO


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 02:48 AM

"Going forward..." Grrr...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 09:56 PM

Right, "to be honest" = "I will now lie."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 05:51 PM

"If I'm honest"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 05:50 PM

"At the end of the day..." - heheh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 04:21 PM

This is turning into Monty Python. But do carry on .....


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 02:35 PM

"Basically" is awful. I've just thought of something else: pretentious gits who begin their opinion-expressing with "I have to say..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Aug 19 - 08:13 AM

And, I just read, "with all due respect" usually means the opposite. I have never liked that phrase.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 09:54 AM

Also, Technically.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 19 - 08:03 AM

I put ‘actually’ and ‘basically’ in the same category - they are ‘starter-words’ intended to put the other party(ies) in a conversation on the back foot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:54 PM

Actually and Just (actually, he's just being ignorant) do kinda sound smarmy, now that you point it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:46 PM

"Actually" is often used in an apologetic way, as in "Actually, I never did put gas in the car." But I do hear people use it to soften a factual statement.

"The capital of New York state is Albany, actually."

==============
fortunate (lucky) vs. "fortuitous" (coincidental)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:42 PM

Well I must admit that I use "actually" quite a lot. I'll try harder...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:31 PM

When you start a sentence with 'actually', you usually are indicating that your interlocutor is wrong, or at least lacking in information. It may well mean "'You are wrong, and I am right, and you are at least a little bit of an idiot.'" So - what's wrong with that? Are you supposed to refrain from correcting others - or are you supposed to come right out and call them 'idiots' while you're doing it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: michaelr
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:21 PM

I was recently informed that one should not begin a statement with "Actually" because it makes one sound like a know-it-all. I was referred to an article that said "Actually is the word that you use when you're actually saying, 'You are wrong, and I am right, and you are at least a little bit of an idiot.'"

I'm inclined to call BS on that. What do you think?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:12 PM

Not exactly a comparable case, Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 03:11 PM

In fact, they make the user sound pompous.

Not to me, they don't. You might as well object to someone saying "pail" when they mean "bucket" but that, of course, would be nonsense.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 12:16 PM

Subsequently, to me, means After and because of, whereas after means After.

Saw "due" for Do today. Subsequently, I was annoyed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 11:36 AM

I have never seen a case of "prior to" in which it couldn't have been perfectly well replaced with "before." Likewise, I've never seen "albeit" used where "though" wouldn't have been just as good. "Subsequently" can carry nuance that makes it useful, but generally I share Leeneia's objection to it. The objection isn't that they're not standard English, rather that they are used in order to make the user sound clever. In fact, they make the user sound pompous.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 10:19 AM

Thinking about "prior to" and "subsequently", I really can't see what there is to object to. They are, in turn, perfectly understandable and unambiguous alternatives to "before" and "after". Life would be pretty boring if communication was restricted to an approved list of basic words. Variety is the spice of life.

DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 08:50 AM

Ha ha. I've just posted a joke in the recession thread that contains the word "pre-declined"...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Aug 19 - 05:50 AM

Pre-order. Pre-book. Pre-select. Pre-choose. Presuppose. Pre-grrr.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 11:50 PM

A live audience. What, other shows are filmed before corpses?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 08:02 PM

"This program was previously recorded earlier.".. and variations on the theme.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 12:19 PM

Black boy is the name the Aussies give to a big tufted wild plant, at least in WA. Not nice, I told 'em...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 08:09 AM

I kinda liked the Aughties...

Black boots held at gunpoint turned out to be black boys, but that's just bad proofreading.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 06:13 AM

"On a daily basis." Argh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 04:49 AM

And the first decade of this century referred to as the noughties. Grrr again...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: BobL
Date: 17 Aug 19 - 02:48 AM

Obviously never heard of a luniversary...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 11:36 PM

My current pet peeve is the growing practice, especially by BBC presenters, of referring to “The x-year anniversary”. Why introduce the redundant ‘year’? What’s wrong with “The xth anniversary”?

And I was gobsmacked recently to hear a radio presenter refer to ‘the three-month anniversary’. WTAF?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 09:34 PM

Steve, I'm with you on comprised. This word has become so misused that I don't use it at all. And if you don't like "prior to", you probably share my distaste for "subsequently" when "after" would do.

Today I remembered another mixed-up word pair:

Gourmet (having to do with fine cooking) vs gourmand (a glutton)


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 04:33 PM

Here's a new one: stealing dog puppies. Not cat puppies or elephant puppies...

Dog (male) as against bitch (female) puppies.


DC


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 03:12 PM

Here's a new one: stealing dog puppies. Not cat puppies or elephant puppies...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 01:05 PM

I remember the cachets of arms in Iraq. It was funny, then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 12:53 PM

"Comprised of." Grrr...

And I can't say it often enough: never say "prior to" or "albeit" within my earshot...


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 11:59 AM

"We dispatched a contingency of Marines to quell the uprising."

I have heard that usage several times by military personnel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 11:56 AM

No matter how many people (read men) tell me that my opinions about English have no foundation, I don't pay attention to them.

Language is important. It can be dishonest, manipulative, or insulting if we let it. It can also waste our time. And so we have every right to pay attention to it and talk about it.

Here's an example of a major language problem that bothers me. I love geology, and recently I borrowed a book on the geologic history of the Alps. Ordinarily, this would be right up my alley - an exciting tale of collisions and destruction.

Unfortunately, the book had been published by the Cambridge University Press (or similar), and its prose was absolutely stultified. You know, the kind of writing you get when a down-to-earth (no pun intended) man thinks, "O god, I've got to write so as to sound intellectual."

The result was that I could not keep awake while reading the book. The struggle to find the message amidst a tangle of over-decorated clauses was too much for me.

If I (who can sleep all I want) can't keep awake while reading it, how can an over-worked student be expected to? What about the person for whom English is not the native language? Why should such a reader have to beat the way through 18th-Century sentence structures?

Writing like that defeats the purpose of the book. That's why I said language can waste our time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Aug 19 - 09:35 AM

Good article. I peeve about what I read in newspapers, not what those kids say. So grammar, such written, wow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 04:00 PM

DMcG, I've earmarked that for a good read tonight once Mrs Steve's hit the sack. I'm a bit ambivalent about the way language seems to change so fast, but I'm also fairly relaxed about it. My command of speling, grammer and punkchewasian is pretty good but I'm a bit of a lingo-liberal at heart. But I love it when resident mudcat twits try to pick me up on the niceties of English. That's when I'm at my best and worst.

And "ambivalent"...anyone else hear that superb Radio 4 programme?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 03:39 PM

My peevishness is in perfect, 3D perspective. Ha! Now to read the article.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 01:07 PM

An interesting article of relevance. I particularly liked the comments on being disinterested.

Perhaps it is important to keep peevishness in perspective!


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Aug 19 - 11:34 AM

Today; grounding when they meant grinding. Yes, if you grind it, it's ground, but you didn't ground it. Sigh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Aug 19 - 01:22 PM

Ok, in today's search for mussels recipes, one said to add a bay leave. Sigh.

Did I mention I am craving mussels?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: meself
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 02:13 PM

How about, the worse the crime, the more respectfully the suspect/convict is spoken of: "the gentleman bit the dog repeatedly", "Mr Epstein trafficked minors", "President Trump had the children taken from their mothers and put in cages"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Language Pet Peeves
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Aug 19 - 12:02 PM

That was the joke. They are both There's.


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