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BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?

McGrath of Harlow 06 Oct 10 - 08:44 PM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 06 Oct 10 - 05:05 AM
theleveller 06 Oct 10 - 05:00 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 06 Oct 10 - 04:43 AM
Allen in Oz 05 Oct 10 - 07:29 PM
gnu 05 Oct 10 - 03:11 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 05 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM
Haruo 04 Oct 10 - 07:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Oct 10 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Patsy 04 Oct 10 - 10:27 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM
theleveller 03 Oct 10 - 11:28 AM
Haruo 02 Oct 10 - 08:23 PM
Allen in Oz 02 Oct 10 - 08:07 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 02 Oct 10 - 02:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Oct 10 - 07:23 AM
Teribus 02 Oct 10 - 03:42 AM
Penny S. 01 Oct 10 - 04:43 PM
theleveller 01 Oct 10 - 09:04 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 01 Oct 10 - 08:54 AM
Manitas_at_home 01 Oct 10 - 08:23 AM
Terry McDonald 01 Oct 10 - 05:31 AM
Haruo 01 Oct 10 - 05:28 AM
Terry McDonald 01 Oct 10 - 05:19 AM
allanc 01 Oct 10 - 04:39 AM
Haruo 01 Oct 10 - 04:08 AM
theleveller 01 Oct 10 - 04:00 AM
Dave MacKenzie 30 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 30 Sep 10 - 03:57 PM
theleveller 30 Sep 10 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 30 Sep 10 - 02:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 10 - 01:56 PM
greg stephens 30 Sep 10 - 01:43 PM
greg stephens 30 Sep 10 - 01:41 PM
Lizzie Cornish 1 30 Sep 10 - 01:38 PM
kendall 30 Sep 10 - 01:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 30 Sep 10 - 01:09 PM
theleveller 30 Sep 10 - 12:24 PM
Mr Red 30 Sep 10 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 30 Sep 10 - 08:38 AM
VirginiaTam 30 Sep 10 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,Allan Con 30 Sep 10 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Allan Con 30 Sep 10 - 07:28 AM
GUEST,Patsy 30 Sep 10 - 05:49 AM
theleveller 30 Sep 10 - 05:41 AM
Dave MacKenzie 30 Sep 10 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,Allan Con 30 Sep 10 - 04:32 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 30 Sep 10 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,Patsy 30 Sep 10 - 04:09 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 08:44 PM

I don't think you can have been reading the thread too attentively, gnu. Great Britain is an island, not a country. Not the same island on which Northern Ireland is situated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 05:05 AM

South Yorkshire starts 200 yds from my house. Just enough time to ensure the car doors are locked and in 5th gear to make the journey faster....

West Yorkshire?   Ok to visit, same as Somerset. But a foreign country to me....


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 05:00 AM

Hmmm.... I'd prefer The People's Republic of East Yorkshire - not sure about that West Riding lot!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 04:43 AM

The Peoples' Republic of Yorkshire and sundry other bits tagged on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Allen in Oz
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 07:29 PM

" Good" yes

But " Great " ...doubtful

I prefer the affectionate " Albion"

Although " Northtralia" sounds better by the minute

Re: Northern Ireland and Great Britain
If a country controls an island off its coast does that mean the country should have " great" in its name ? If so, we should have Great Norway , Great America, Great Australia etc etc

Great Scott!

Allen in Australia


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: gnu
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 03:11 PM

McGrath... "Britain is fine, so long as you recognise that that excludes Northern Ireland."

So, if you include Ireland it's becomes Great Britain? >;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 05 Oct 10 - 01:39 PM

"In the sporting world, an English boy, for example, can hope to play (perhaps managed by a citizen of a nation they may compete against) football for England, rugby-league for England/Great Britain, rugby-union for England/British Isles, athletics for England/U.K., golf for England/Europe, cricket for a combined England and Wales, or tennis for Great Britain - but Wimbledon is still The All England Lawn Tennis Championships…Anyone for friendly-rival republics?!" (from here).


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Haruo
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 07:24 PM

Sometimes you get lucky and can change something's name without any change in its name.

I live in King County, Washington. The county logo shows a silhouette of Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, and the county is officially "named for him" or "named after him" (I don't know which preposition the County Council resolution uses). Up until a few years ago, King County was named after William Rufus King, a (now rather obscure) nineteenth-century political figure and 13th Vice President of the United States. Because W. R. King was and is widely believed to have been in a homosexual relationship with James Buchanan, who later became President—they shared a home for 15 years—there were some in the GLBT community who objected to the namesake-change, but aside from that the transition was rather free of difficulties, and no one had to learn the new name of the County.

Haruo


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 02:26 PM

In face of global warning, how about switching to "Northtralia"?


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Oct 10 - 10:27 AM

To suddenly change like that would be difficult because of different points of view, people are creatures of habit and call things as they have always called them. We have a concert hall in the Centre of Bristol called the Colston Hall and because of Colston's connection with slavery there was much debate of whether it should be renamed or kept the same. Since then most people decided they would still call it the Colston Hall as it's always been known as, just as my mother calls the area around by the Hippodrome theatre 'the tramway centre' my parent's age group know exactly where it was and know where they are talking about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 01:57 PM

Britain is fine, so long as you recognise that that excludes Northern Ireland.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 03 Oct 10 - 11:28 AM

"NOW, it's become personal, so finally you acknowledge it's happening?"

Once again, Lizzie, you#ve got the wrong end of the stick. The education system WORKED. A head teacher who was brought in 3 years ago to replace an excelelnt one, just couldn't do the job. The Ofsted inspectors picked this up, got rid of him and put the school under special measures. That's the way it should work and it did - so now, fortunately, the new head from a beacon school will turn it around. It wasn't the system that failed, it was one individual.

"I wish your wife well in trying to make the school better. I doubt she'll be able to help *that* much,"

Oh, you don't know mrsleveller!

"There are good and bad police officers."

Of course there are because there are good and bad people. It's down to individuals again. Individuals make a difference - for better and for worse.

"ALL Young People should have a 'Future',"

This scrote has had plenty of chances. There comes a time when even I say 'enough is enough'. and drug dealing, burglary, malicious wounding and GBH are more than enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Haruo
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:23 PM

Britain is certainly what I think it's best called, but then I'm a Seattle Esperantist (and we definitely say "Britio" more than "Unuiĝinta Reĝlando" or "Granda Britujo" in Esperanto).


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Allen in Oz
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 08:07 PM

Why not just call yourselves the "United Great Britain Kingdom"...or at present Queendom ?

How about just......      Britain !

From Allen in plain old....   Australia !


Just a thought chaps

AD


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 02:15 PM

'The Age of the Ostrich'

>>>>>>"That's really insulting, Lizzie. I've led a pretty tough life at times, had to work hard for 42 years and will have to continue to work until well into my sixties, at least. Last week my younger son had his nose broken in a completely random attack by a thug. The high school my daughter will attend next year has just been placed under Special Measures because it's been run down by a twat of a Head teacher."<<<<<<<<<<<<

First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your son. I hope he recovers ASAP, both physically, and emotionally.




Levels, I've been telling you what's been happening in our schools for YEARS and you've just kept telling me how wonderful your experiences have been with the education system.

??????????

NOW, it's become personal, so finally you acknowledge it's happening?

Tavistock College, where my daughter went, had their headmaster towed away to 'the place where bad teachers go' recently, because it failed every single tick box that Ofsted invented for it. It too is under 'Special Measures'.....I presume that means they'll get even tougher with the children, rather than look at the damage they're doing to them all, but ho bloody hum, eh!!

It wasn't the headteacher's fault. He was trying to preside over a Factory Farm filled with young people who are often stressed out to their eyeballs with regulations, examinations, discriminations and condemnations! The teachers had walkie talkies, police patrolled the grounds, as they do here in some schools in Torbay as well...

THIS IS NOT NORMAL, NOR HAS IT 'ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY'

...and the sooner we all stand up together and admit that, the better it will start to be.

I wish your wife well in trying to make the school better. I doubt she'll be able to help *that* much, because the whole Edukashon System is fucked up, from the inside out, top to bottom.

Our children are being Specially Measured to fit the Special Measures, and you know what...they're REBELLING...BIGTIME! Good for them! Young people are angry, fumingly angry, and I can't blame them, to be honest...They have no time to be themselves, they're just fodder on a never-ending Examination Production Line which boosts the egos of the schools and the hopes of the parents, keeping the Corporate Education Bastards rich, whilst stressing so many children to the point where some don't want to live any longer...

What the fuck are we allowing to happen???????

"Ooh, my Little Jimmy's got in to Round The Corner High, and they were FIRST in the Magikal League Tables! He's going to be such a success!"

But Little Jimmy, more often than not, ends up resentful and fooking angry, because he's told over and again that he's not doing things the right way, or not working hard enough, or that he's going to be a complete failure all his life long...All his parents want is for him to do 'as he's told' so that he can get those exams, for after all, THEY are what LIFE is about, right????? That is, if Little Jimmy knows both his parents, of course...because he may not even have a Father around..

If he's lucky, he'll get a teacher who's still an individual, who still cares deeply for the children in his/her care, and who may well make Little Jimmy feel that he can take on the world and succeed. I most certainly hope so.

Chances are though, Little Jimmy will be told off for daring to take his jersey off without asking permission first...He'll lose marks for not having the correct shoes, or for his tie not being straight, or his homework not being done, or his writing being messy..(Yes, this all happens in Sidmouth College, folks)

And who knows, Little Jimmy may also be dyslexic...or autistic...so he won't be able to understand his lessons too well, or he may be shite scared of all the other children around him...His intelligent mind may not be picked up on by a school that lacks wonderful teachers, so they'll only pick up on the fact that he doesn't do the work the 'right' way...he's untidy, disinterested, wriggles and jiggles and giggles..or lashes out for no apparent reason, because no-one understands the terrible fear he may be experiencing...

>>>>"The upside? I'm glad that I still have a job and am able to work.... "<<<<<<<

You shouldn't have to feel 'grateful' for having a job. You should feel bloody angry that so many don't, or that they have slave jobs with no loyalty, no support, just expected to be there as and when, 24/7, for shit wages. People should NOT have to work into their 70s and beyond, unless they choose to. To say otherwise, is brain-washed crap, fed to you from Corporate Mind-Bending Bastards Inc.

>>>>"..The police were fantastic with my lad...."

Excellent.

How lucky he didn't get Officer Bastard who dragged that poor lady across the floor the other day, the officer who is now serving time..or Officer Bubbles, over in Canada at the G20 conference, who yelled and screamed at a defenceless woman who was er....blowing bubbles near him....or the one who hit another innocent lass on the legs with a truncheon..or the ones who charged, on horseback, at innocent people just sitting on the ground singing songs...

There are good and bad police officers. Thank goodness, you were lucky enough to have the good.

>>>>"....and I know that he is going to do well in life..."<<<<

Most of us wish that for our children. We hope for it, with all our hearts..even more so in these tremulous times..


"......whilst the thug who asaulted him (22 and with a string of conviction and two terms in prison) has no future....."

Ah, that'll be Little Jimmy, I expect.



ALL Young People should have a 'Future',

The world is changing. It is changing as never before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 07:23 AM

Churchill did in 1940 propose a union between France and the UK:

"'The two Governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations but one Franco-British Union… Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British subject will become a citizen of France..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Oct 10 - 03:42 AM

"Churchill was a huge advocate of what has now become The EU. In fact, he was the one proposing a United States of Europe.

Very true Guest, the only thing that you forgot to mention in coming up with that is that, although what became the EU out of Churchill's original notion, Churchill never intended that the UK be a part of it as Britain's loyalties, interests and trading partners were to be found in her former overseas possessions, "The Commonwealth of Nations" - In the long term history will prove him right.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:43 PM

Repeat posting - the computer ate my homework.

The name Pretani is first recorded by a Greek sailor named Pytheas, sailing out of Marseilles and circumnavigating the island (or possibly islands). It seems to be related to the word creta for chalk, but in 'P' Celtic rather than 'Q' Celtic, and describes the view of large parts of south Britain from the sea or the continent, especially Kent (Kantion in Pytheas, meaning edge or rim.) As chalk is not a distinguishing feature of Wales or Scotland (there is a very small outcrop in the centre of the Arran caldera), and only minor in Northern Ireland, it is obviously a misnomer. Especially since a lot of the north of Gaul would also have been pretannic.

The decorated people would have been the Picti. This name was also taken for a late Roman fleet division which aimed to creep up on Batavian pirates in battleship grey ships with painted faces.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 09:04 AM

Well said, Willie! I would endorse all of that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 08:54 AM

I suppose my point is that anywhere is good, anywhere is bad. I don't tend to wear rose tinted spectacles and since selling up my business interests and retiring (ish) I have interfered with health and social care. These days I see many of the failings and failures of society, but remain convinced their harrowing experiences and stories do not make a geographical area any better or worse.

To say that a country is going to the dogs is to see it as a country rather than a convenient border of a set of different communities. if everything within that border, which we call a country, is going to Hell in a hand cart, that means that politicians are more important and affect things more than they actually do.

We, everybody makes a country good bad or indifferent. Knocking a country in general terms is to expose yourself as part of the issue. it isn't a bad country. It is a country. And a hell of a lot safer to walk the streets at night than many.

The world I know is the world I see, not the world The Daily Mail would wish me to see


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 08:23 AM

Maybe the UK is fucked up but it's obviously not as fucked up as the rest of the world or we wouldn't have so many people wanting to live here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 05:31 AM

Jersey is not part of the EU............

(sorry about the missing quotation mark!)


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Haruo
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 05:28 AM

What's strange about 'European Union — apart from the leading single quotation mark, which suggests the elision of something unimaginably strange, that is?


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 05:19 AM

The term 'British Islands' appears on the front cover of Jersey passports, along with 'Bailliwick of Jersey' and (strangely) 'European Union.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: allanc
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:39 AM

"British Isles sounds lovely"

And a very ancient term it is too but it is not describing the same thing. British Isles refers to the entire archipelago hence also includes the Republic of Ireland - and of course as another poster pointed out some Irish dislike the said term. Perhaps because they think of it in a political way whereas it is in fact a purely geographic term. The official term for the parts of the British Isles which constitute the UK or are linked to the UK politically is seemingly the "British Islands" though I've never actually heard anyone use it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Haruo
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:08 AM

I think I'd rather be Her Majesty's subject than Her object.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 01 Oct 10 - 04:00 AM

"Sorry, Willie..and Levels, but I don't live in Ostrich Land"

That's really insulting, Lizzie. I've led a pretty tough life at times, had to work hard for 42 years and will have to continue to work until well into my sixties, at least. Last week my younger son had his nose broken in a completely random attack by a thug. The high school my daughter will attend next year has just been placed under Special Measures because it's been run down by a twat of a Head teacher.

The upside? I'm glad that I still have a job and am able to work. The police were fantastic with my lad and I know that he is going to do well in life whilst the thug who asaulted him (22 and with a string of conviction and two terms in prison) has no future. Mrsleveller will be applying to be a governor of the school.

So, just because I don't descend into a bottomles pit of pessimism and negativity when life isn't all sweetness and light (it never has been) doesn't mean I'm not a realist. Of course there are bad things about Britain. On the other hand, there are plenty of great things and I for one, am grateful that I live here rather than anywhere else. Instead of moaning, why don't you get off your arse and DO something?


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 06:13 PM

Back in the 60s this country was seriously screwed up so when we grew up we were going to put it right. Half a century later, some things are better, some are worse.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM

The country's OK. It's just some of the people... More especially the people in charge. But then that's true most of the time in most places.

The other people make up for it, on the whole. So long as they don't get too discouraged to look out for each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 03:57 PM

Sorry, Willie..and Levels, but I don't live in Ostrich Land...and surely you must know I *love* this country deeply, but hell...what the fuck is going on, eh?

Still, never mind, let's all pretend that everything's fine and dandy, and there's nowt wrong at all..not one little thing..anywhere...


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 03:46 PM

"They both apply in my seriously dumbed down and fucked up country these days."

Well I'm glad that they don't apply to mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 02:18 PM

Lizzie Cornish reckons the country is dumbed down and fucked up.

Err.. no. Maybe you are judging yourself by your comments but having travelled the world most of my working life and now travelling for pleasure; I can say this.

Everywhere I go I see things I like. In the last few years I have had the opportunity (not taken) to relocate to California, New Zealand and most recently Australia. I like being in all those places, (although funnily enough, when in The USA, I feel more at home in Boston than anywhere, even though I spend as much time as I can in the winery rich areas of Western California as my leisure time permits. In a nutshell, I feel privileged and lucky to be able to go where I like when I like.

But do you know what? Apart from a skiing holiday in France earlier this year, all our holidays this year have been spent here. I bought a caravan and enjoy walking in The North York Moors, Cairngorms and Dorset.

My point? I like going elsewhere and respect the offers of academic posts elsewhere, but I am always glad to be home because for me, the only problem with this country is those who knock it. If they buggered off to find their impossible Utopia, that alone would be an improvement.

We could call it "Great Place the Inhabitants are Proud Of Since the Doom & Gloom Mongerers Buggered Off Land."


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:56 PM

To try and forestall that maybe they should incorporate the Cornish national flag into the Union Jack, thus fortuitously providing it with some much needed black.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:43 PM

Cornwall is not a Duchy, nor a County, nor a Principality. It is a proud country, crying under the heel of the boot of the Saxon oppressor. But we will rise again! Oggie oggie oggie!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:41 PM


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:38 PM

Little Britain.
Disunited Kingdom.
Use either.
They both apply in my seriously dumbed down and fucked up country these days.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: kendall
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:33 PM

Many people had a hand in developing RADAR from a Russian to Tesla , a German and an American. However, it was a Brit that first used it as we now use it.
Was it not a Scot who invented the chronometer?


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 01:09 PM

Cornwall is a Duchy, and a County, not a Principality.

There isn't any equivalent term for Northern Ireland - it's not a Kingdom, or a Principality, or a Duchy, just the part of the Province of Ulster which still retains the British connection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:24 PM

"And how come we omit Cornwall from this union/great bit. It is as much a principality as Wales, and could have elected it's own parliament long before devolution. The only barrier was expense "

Same goes for Yorkshire!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 12:16 PM

British isles
is a geographical description that the Southern Irish hate. In fact I suspect they hate the Southern description too.

The UK is the Union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Hence Unionist politics.

And how come we omit Cornwall from this union/great bit. It is as much a principality as Wales, and could have elected it's own parliament long before devolution. The only barrier was expense and maybe the major owner - Prince Charlie. Who confusingly is the Prince of............


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 08:38 AM

To paraphrase Alexi Sayle, when did you last hear people talking about Fairly Crap Belgium or Not Bad Italy?


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 07:51 AM

British Isles sounds lovely.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 07:46 AM

"My understanding is the Roman's used the term "Britannia" on its own for Great Britain. Ireland was Hibernia."

Originally the term, or variants of it, was used to describe all of the islands including Ireland. That predates the Roman conquest by a long way. The Romans initially called Ireland by the name Hibernia and GB was named Albion. I think you are right that they would be the first to later specifically call Albion by the name Britain. Probably due to the fact that the bulk of the island (though not all of it) formed the Roman provinces of Britannia. For most of the Roman period Britannia was divided into two provinces. Britannia Superior was centred on London and Britannia Inferior was cented on York


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 07:28 AM

"United Kingdoms" was actually the term used at the time James VI of Scotland also became James I of England. I'm not sure when the S was dropped,"

During the 17thC the Kingdoms of Scotland and England remained seperate kingdoms united in the sense that they shared a monarch. So in that sense the 's' makes sense. After 1707 the two kingdoms ceased to exist as seperate kingdoms when they united to form one united kingdom called Great Britain. Of course until 1801 Ireland remained as a seperate kingdom. At the time of Scottish/English union Wales was officially classed as part of the Kingdom of England itself hence the lack of Welsh representation on the Union Flag


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 05:49 AM

Hmmm, the Falklands are pretty close too only closer to Argentina.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: theleveller
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 05:41 AM

Good grief, Dave - you've just sent my mind scurrying back 45 years to my desparate attempts to translate Caesar's Gallic Wars (please let's no talk about the Aeniad). I'm pretty sure there was something about that in there. Mind you,I did fail Latin 'O' Level - twice!


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 04:57 AM

Hibernia Seu Britannia minor. While Hibernia was the more common term, Britannia minor was also used.

Hibernia Seu Britannia minor

As for the origin of "Britannia", I believe it comes from Pretani, "probably a soldier's nickname for the inhabitants of the island. It means 'the people of the designs'" and refers to the widespread habit of either tattooing or skin painting (cf Picti).


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 04:32 AM

"If so, then the Isle of Wight is part of the United Kingdom. (And you could use the same rule of thumb for the Isle of Man, etc.)"

The two are completely different Jim. The Isle of Wight is part of England itself just as the Isle of Skye is part of Scotland - so yes the Isle of Wight is part of the UK. The Isle of Man on the other hand as a Crown Dependency is largely left alone to self govern but the UK Govt actually has the ultimate authority on internal matters (though it doesn't for the most part interfere) and acts for the island on day to day international matters etc. The Isle of Man though is not an integral part of the UK.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 04:26 AM

Ok, a step at a time;

I was thinking of Lindisfarne when I said Isle of Wight. Still chuckling that some poor sod got the maps out to check depths.. Sorry & all that, but if only people would go to such depths (getting better Willie!) to counter the "this country is crap" comments from the moaners and knockers.

Ok leveller, I did say she is monarch by consent of the people these days and she wouldn't raise an army if we had a referendum, so I reckon the idea of subject is a nice twee historical quirk rather than something to get hung up over. Talking of getting hung, I recall Charles II had Cromwell's body dug up and hung....

before we get too het up over names given, at least we can go back to Roman times for names of our geography. The vast majority of countries have borders and therefore names that are 20th century concoctions, usually imposed by er... we Brits...

United Kingdom does sound a bit grand and contrived, especially as united is a moot point for many and perhaps fans the flame of silly nationalism, leading to bigotry and ultimately gun running and emotive songs being sung in small village pubs. England and English (for me) is technically correct, but I find nationalism repugnant so prefer more inclusive terms, hence the circular argument of UK upsetting dangerous idealists and those who are told by the dangerous idealists to be angry.   

We have a history of not getting excited by such things. Although old pictures from Edwardian times show jingoism on street corners, we have always left it to Johnny Foreigner to stick flags up on lamp posts. The St George flags around football tournament times may be innocuous enough but when they stay up after the event, I get a small feeling that there is something ugly creeping into society.

Wonderful that those who claim they don't want Turkey in The EU at any cost tend to be the same people happy flying the flag of St George? A bit like little England idiots invoking the Churchill spirit. Churchill was a huge advocate of what has now become The EU. In fact, he was the one proposing a United States of Europe.

For our American friends, so you see yourself as American, North American, citizen of Texas etc? Where do loyalty boundaries lie? Here, you can always tell a Yorkshireman, but you can't tell him much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Great Britain or United Kingdom - which?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 04:09 AM

>Great Britain it aint any more,
United kingdom it aint,
so i reckon it should be, that little island just off calais <

Actually good point, it seems more and more lately we look to France at what they are going to decide about anything. Where I work we certainly can't make decisions without France's say so first.


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