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london folk songs

GUEST 24 Sep 10 - 10:13 PM
MGM·Lion 25 Sep 10 - 03:04 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Sep 10 - 08:56 AM
MGM·Lion 25 Sep 10 - 12:53 PM
GUEST 25 Sep 10 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,Gealt 25 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM
GUEST 25 Sep 10 - 08:46 PM
Banjovey 26 Sep 10 - 04:55 AM
SPB-Cooperator 26 Sep 10 - 06:11 AM
GUEST 26 Sep 10 - 07:40 AM
GUEST 26 Sep 10 - 08:00 AM
Rafflesbear 26 Sep 10 - 08:26 AM
oldhippie 26 Sep 10 - 09:39 AM
GUEST 26 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM
GUEST 26 Sep 10 - 02:18 PM
GUEST,Gealt 26 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Sep 10 - 12:19 PM
GUEST,Bert 27 Sep 10 - 06:53 PM
pavane 28 Sep 10 - 04:51 AM
GUEST 29 Sep 10 - 04:44 AM
Brian May 29 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM
GUEST 29 Sep 10 - 08:09 AM
GUEST 31 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM
GUEST,Jack Campin 31 Mar 11 - 08:11 AM
GUEST 31 Mar 11 - 01:02 PM
Herga Kitty 31 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,Jack Campin 31 Mar 11 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,Alan Whittle 31 Mar 11 - 03:13 PM
ElunedAgain 31 Mar 11 - 04:29 PM
Dave Sutherland 31 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM
JohnH 31 Mar 11 - 04:58 PM
GUEST,Kildare 31 Mar 11 - 05:19 PM
GUEST,mattkeen 01 Apr 11 - 08:21 AM
Jim Carroll 01 Apr 11 - 08:32 AM
Manitas_at_home 01 Apr 11 - 11:37 AM
GUEST 03 Apr 11 - 12:34 PM
GUEST 03 Apr 11 - 12:46 PM
GUEST 03 Apr 11 - 12:49 PM
ChrisJBrady 03 Apr 11 - 12:53 PM
ChrisJBrady 03 Apr 11 - 01:37 PM
ChrisJBrady 04 Apr 11 - 04:02 AM
GUEST 04 Apr 11 - 04:19 AM
ChrisJBrady 04 Apr 11 - 05:48 AM
GUEST 04 Apr 11 - 05:24 PM
Jack Campin 04 Apr 11 - 06:29 PM
GUEST 10 Apr 11 - 08:38 AM
Manitas_at_home 10 Apr 11 - 11:41 AM
The Sandman 10 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM
GUEST 11 Apr 11 - 08:00 AM
Jack Campin 11 Apr 11 - 08:41 AM
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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 10 - 10:13 PM

i've found another
the ratcatchers daughter elsa lanchester


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Sep 10 - 03:04 AM

"If it wasn't for the 'ouses in between' is emphatically music hall ~~ Gus Elen, words by Bateman, music LeBrunn. Once we start on music hall songs, no end to it ~~ Knocked 'Em In The Old Kent Road for a start, & then ... Let's stick to 'folk' on this thread or where will it lead?

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 10 - 08:56 AM

Music Hall and folk overlap. If there is a native London folk tradition it is largely/mostly music hall.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 25 Sep 10 - 12:53 PM

I indeed take this point, McGrath, and would not disagree; tho I am not too sure of your "mostly". I simply meant to suggest that, if this thread is not to get entirely out of hand, it would be as well perhaps to take the London refs which are purely music hall as perhaps a separate genre, purely for ad hoc purposes. Otherwise we are going to swamp ourselves with Old Kent Roads, Ladders & Glasses & Hackney Marshes, and who knows what-all!

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 10 - 02:38 PM

on trying to find any references to the oystergirl i have heard there is a link to the song quare bungle rye.another source says that qbr is linked to the ploughboy and the cockney


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Gealt
Date: 25 Sep 10 - 05:11 PM

I have an LP, 'Tradition Folk Sampler - TSP 1' no date but I'd quess
1962.On it Colyn Davies sings 'The Hearse Song', described as 'a music hall favorite with much morbid detail from his Tradition album "Cockney
Music Hall Songs and Recitations" (TLP1017)'. Sleeve notes also refers to 'a gruesome Cockney song'.
I believe the Tradition label was founded by the Clancy Brothers.

'Radcliffe Highway' is one of my favourite London ballads. First heard
it sung by Ronnie Drew. Found on 'Irish Folk Night' Decca 1964.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 10 - 08:46 PM

just back from te pub and a good friend cannot understand why up the junction by squeeze is not included.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Banjovey
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 04:55 AM

You might be interested in "The Tea Leaf Song" which appears in a song book edited by Sam Richards and Tish Stubbs


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 06:11 AM

Modern Street Ballads by J Ashton has a large number of London related broadsides. The music hall has a wealth of London Based songs.

From Marble Arch to Leicester Square
I Live in Trafalgar Square
Come With Me Down Regent Street
Lets All Go DOwn The Strand
Lets Go Where All The Crowd Goes
On Mother Kelly's Doorstep
Oh 'Ampstead
Costers Serenade
A Nice Quiet Day
Take Me In A Taxi Joe
Calk Farm to Camberwell Green

and many mnay more


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 07:40 AM

thanks cooperator i was primarily lookin g for what be considered folk song but as you say there is a wealth of music hall material. i love i live in trafalgar square and the famous on mother kellys doorstep, i.ve come across another 'while london sleeps' that i'll try to find


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 08:00 AM

thanks banjovey.googled richards and stubbs and certainly anything thay sang from london would be of interest.would be difficult to hear this particular song


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Rafflesbear
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 08:26 AM

The Loss of the Princess Alice

Tale of a shipwreck near Woolwich, SE London


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: oldhippie
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 09:39 AM

"Loneliness of London" (John Pittman), recorded by Phyllis Morrissey.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM

thanks oldhippy unabnle to find a referebnce to it in google


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 02:18 PM

found a version of the beggar by martin carthy.will put the words on the broadside provided by pavane


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Gealt
Date: 26 Sep 10 - 05:58 PM

I did a Google search for Colyn Davies's LP:-

Tradition Records
Colyn Davies: Cockney Music Hall Songs & Recitations
1956 - TLP 1017 LP
image Side One

They're Moving Father's Grave [1]

The Cruel Gamekeeper

The Poor Young Man

The Captain's Apprentice

The Wind was Weirdly Howling

The hog's-eye man

Villikins and his Dinah

Side Two

Botany Bay

The Poor Young Girl

Georgie Barnville

The Pig and the Inebriate

Blow the Candles Out

Tim Turpin

Jack Hall


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 12:19 PM

To stretch the folk genre a little in another direction, there's Kipling's Road to Manadaley:

...Tho' l walks with fifty 'ousemaids outer Chelsea to the Strand An' they talks a lot o' lovin', but wot do they understand?...


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 27 Sep 10 - 06:53 PM

A lot of Music Hall songs are still sung at parties by Londoners which kinda makes them folk.

While London Sleeps
Nice quiet day
Burlington Bertie
Silk Hat Tony
Never let yer Donah go upon the Stage
Big thick Fog in London
Baby has gorn dahn the plug 'ole


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: pavane
Date: 28 Sep 10 - 04:51 AM

Even Carthy has recorded "Your Baby has gorn dahn the plug 'ole "


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 04:44 AM

just like to say thanks to everyone who contributed especially pavane.i've got about 15 that i;ve started to play and sing and thats great


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Brian May
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 07:38 AM

"She fell in love with a Portuguese" - as sung by Derek Brimstone is set in the smoke too.

It's also in English, most London songs now will be in 'anything but' I would imagine . . .


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 10 - 08:09 AM

thanks brian .found a version by bruce michael baillie on youtube


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Subject: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

i cant find a previous thread about london folk songs.
in my search i've found another 'the grey cock'
this can be added to
1vilikins and his dinah
2blow the candles out
3ratcatchers daughter
4lord lovel
5ratcliff highway
6sweet thames
7fair maid of islington
8pretty polly perkins
10 atichokes and cauliflowers
11 rosemary lane
13polly oliver
14ploughboy and the cockney
15 hopping down in kent
16lord bateman
17sam/jack hall
18 lock hospital



i'd be very grateful for any more suggestions
    Threads combined. When looking for a thread by name, use the Filter at the top of the list of threads. Also, please note that we require posters to use a consistent name every time they post. Anonymous posts are frowned upon.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 08:11 AM

Get hold of Simpson's "The British Broadside Ballad and its Music" - there are references to thousands of London-related songs there.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 01:02 PM

bailiffs daughter of islington


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM

London River by Rod Shearman as well as your number 6 (Sweet Thames flow softly by Ewan McColl).

Kitty


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 02:28 PM

Just one of the broadsides Simpson lists: "Buggering Oates, Prepare Thy Neck". Gotta go for a title like that - and it's about an issue that's still with us: Titus Oates was one of the first people in British history to whip up a panic about terrorism. 17th century England saw through it a lot quicker than folks in the 21st century have done - Oates got prison and the pillory.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 03:13 PM

Oranges and lemons
London Bridge is Falling Down


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: ElunedAgain
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 04:29 PM

I don't suppose Bedlam was anywhere in/near London? That would give you "Tom o' Bedlam".


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

There are two Critics Group albums out there "A Merry Progress to London" and "Sweet Thames Flow Softly" that are worth tracking down,
However how does Lord Bateman get in there; all the action takes place between Turkey and Northumberland?


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: JohnH
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 04:58 PM

Critics Group L.P. "A Merry Progress To London" and the follow-up "Sweet Thames Flow Softly" The first old and the second new. Don't know about current availability. "Pills To Purge Melancholy" and "The Universal Songster..." have several. Both are available in pdf on-line.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,Kildare
Date: 31 Mar 11 - 05:19 PM

Streets of London by Raif McTell
Baker Street by Ged Rafferty
Euston Road Runs by Kings Cross Station
London Is The Place To Be by Mighty Sparrow
Our House by Madness
Old Main Drag by Pogue Mahone


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST,mattkeen
Date: 01 Apr 11 - 08:21 AM

Laurel Swift (Morris Offspring and often does workshops for EFDSS)did a London song and tune performance at Loughborough Festival a couple of years ago. She might be worth contacting?


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Apr 11 - 08:32 AM

Two excellent early Folkways albums by Ewan MacColl, Broadside Ballads London 1600-1700
I know Terry Yarnell has been planning to publish a collection of London songs for some years now.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Apr 11 - 11:37 AM

Bedlam was the Bethleham Hospital formerly on the present site of Liverpool Street Station (no change there!). Maudlin or Maudsley was the female counterpart named after Mary Magdalen. The two were eventually merged and moved out to the countryside (Walworth) in the building that now houses the Imperial War Museum (no change there!).


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 12:34 PM

the grey cock


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 12:46 PM

bailiffs daughter iof islington


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 12:49 PM

first sparrow of marble arch


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 12:53 PM

URGENTLY see:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/London-Pub-Queen-Victoria-1960s-Sing-song-LP-BBC-RED31M-/270725909610


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 03 Apr 11 - 01:37 PM

Let's Have Another One at 'The Queen Victoria' – a typical sing-song at a London local, c1970 LP, BBC Radio Enterprises RED 31M.

This is a nice example of the LP Let's Have Another One at 'The Queen Victoria' – a typical sing-song at a London local, which contains over 50 minutes of 'sing-song' that was recorded at the Queen Victoria pub, Southwark Park Road, London SE16, some time around the late 1960s. It was released on the BBC Radio Enterprises label in around 1970 – RED 31M. The record is in EX condition. The cover also grades as EX.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/London-Pub-Queen-Victoria-1960s-Sing-song-LP-BBC-RED31M-/270725909610


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 04:02 AM

But what do you mean by 'London' folk songs? Songs about London written by folks living there or by outsiders, e.g. Sweet Thames? Or do you mean general songs written by Londoners (or those living in this great city), including Cockney songs such as Lambeth Walk, or impromptu sing-a-long songs from pubs which could be of WW1 / WW2 songs such as "Show me the Way to go Home" (such sessions now extinct due to the draconian licensing restrictions making same illegal)?


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 04:19 AM

thanks to all contributions.
there was a gap between my original thread and my recent addition.
in the meantime the wonders of youtube have meant i have versions of
1.the old miser
2the oyster girl
3london waterman (but with complaetely different lyrics to the bellamy version in mudcat)
4.bedlam boys

from the contributions made some are obviously more helpful than others. i no longer have a record player so all references to song on lp's is redundant for me
i suppose the best reference is anything that can be accessed via the net.youtube is superb in this respect


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: ChrisJBrady
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:48 AM

Also try listening to

http://www.mediafire.com/?5puqedg9m9nevx6


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 05:24 PM

the london prentice

care of islingtonfolk club


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Apr 11 - 06:29 PM

All the tunes for the old London broadsides are right here on Mudcat, in the ABCs on Bruce Olson's archived site.

You can convert them using the resources on http://abcnotation.com . Here is an example search for one of the most famous of all London broadside tunes:

http://abcnotation.com/searchTunes?q=packington&f=c&o=a&s=0

That search has found three different versions of Packington's Pound, all from Bruce Olson's work. One the one screen you get staff notation and playable MIDIs for all three. It's a very elegant user interface.


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 08:38 AM

getting quite a collection but many suggestions lead to more questions than answers

1.are there any versions of artichokes and cauliflowers other than by john kirkpatick and lass of london city by nic jones and ploughboy and the cockney by tim hart
2 any info on the london prentice/apprentice or rag fair
3 any cds by terry yarnell

thanks in advance


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 11:41 AM

http://www.thetraditionbearers.co.uk/htmfiles/welcome.htm


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 01:11 PM

pop goes the weasle, tottie poem .


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:00 AM

three jolly sneaksmen?

does any one know of another version other than martin carthys?


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Subject: RE: london folk songs
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 08:41 AM

Despite the urban legends about it, I don't think there's any evidence to link "Pop Goes the Weasel" to London. It first appeared in America in the mid-19th century.

The Opies' "Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes" doesn't mention it.


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