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Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)

GUEST,erbert 10 Dec 10 - 01:02 PM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 12:57 PM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 12:43 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Dec 10 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Dec 10 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,erbert 10 Dec 10 - 12:11 PM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Dec 10 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,erbert 10 Dec 10 - 11:35 AM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM
theleveller 10 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,erbert 10 Dec 10 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM
I don't know 10 Dec 10 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,erbert 10 Dec 10 - 09:48 AM
theleveller 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Dec 10 - 06:16 AM
Leadfingers 10 Dec 10 - 06:10 AM
theleveller 10 Dec 10 - 04:38 AM
theleveller 10 Dec 10 - 04:32 AM
melodeonboy 10 Dec 10 - 04:15 AM
I don't know 10 Dec 10 - 04:06 AM
GUEST,Banjiman 10 Dec 10 - 03:27 AM
melodeonboy 10 Dec 10 - 03:17 AM
Harry H 10 Dec 10 - 02:50 AM
Arthur_itus 10 Dec 10 - 01:20 AM
GUEST,Frug 09 Dec 10 - 06:57 PM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 02:38 PM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 02:22 PM
Spleen Cringe 09 Dec 10 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,Banjiman 09 Dec 10 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 12:54 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 09 Dec 10 - 12:13 PM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 10:58 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 10:52 AM
Pulseroom 09 Dec 10 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 10:40 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 10:12 AM
Spleen Cringe 09 Dec 10 - 10:06 AM
Chordcrasher 09 Dec 10 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,Frug 09 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM
Arthur_itus 09 Dec 10 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,Frug 09 Dec 10 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM
theleveller 09 Dec 10 - 08:55 AM
GUEST,erbert 09 Dec 10 - 08:42 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Dec 10 - 08:24 AM
theleveller 09 Dec 10 - 06:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 01:02 PM

thanks Arthur_itus,
but no need for anyone to go to any special effort for me.
If I miss out on this little bit of a weekend laugh,

well tough, I can't complain if i'm too stuborn to join any social network sites.

cheers..


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:57 PM

erbert, I not sure where it originated from, so can't really help. Maybe somebody else can capture it and put it up on Flickr or something like that.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:43 PM

Just thought it might keep erberts hands warm.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:13 PM

.... in any other context except kids being involved, it's a very funny placard.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:11 PM

"Yep aplologies there Banjiman. Unfortunately, we don't have edit or delete buttons on Mudcat."

Don't worry, I got your drift...... I completely accept that you didn't mean anything untoward.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:11 PM

Hi Arthur_itus ..

wish I could see the Placard but I'm excluded from 'facebook' !!!???

any other links ? cheers.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 12:01 PM

Yep aplologies there Banjiman. Unfortunately, we don't have edit or delete buttons on Mudcat.

The post was in response to erbert's post to leveller. It's not my placard, but Jim seems to be proud of it.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:39 AM

Arthur itus..... you have a sick mind my friend!

"Hey, Paul, the kids could busk outside - we'd make a fortune, especially if we dressed them in rags with no shoes. Probably be even more profitable than sending them up chimneys like this year."

Oh no, we couldn't do that with our pampered little darlings (Tarquin & Tara), they'll be too busy breaking into Butlins..... to run about, shout & scream- especially during the quieter songs..... and we'll laugh especially hard as they interfere with the mic's and other sound gear.

I mean, as they've never been to any gigs, festivals or folk clubs before they just won't know how to behave.... and we wouldn't dream of interfering with them expressing themselves. It might stunt their arty, creative development..... us being middle class, hippy parents and all. (actually the last bit might be true, sorry 'erbert).


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:35 AM

"one two three four...

Didn't we have a miserable time the day we picketed Butlins
A Cold Winter's day, we had greasy chips on the way
and all for sake of
Dad's bloody-minded ideological point of principle you know.."



etc etc ....


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:17 AM

Ooops that's not going to be very good idea if you bring the kids along. :-)


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM

Quote
If you do decide to mount a lone vigil outside Bulins next winter,
defiantly holding a placard in protest on your solitary picket line.
End of quote

Maybe Jim Causley will lend you his new placard :-)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=508777539


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 11:14 AM

My perspective is perfectly clear, thanks, erbert. Your approbation or otherwise makes not a jot of difference to me.

Hey, Paul, the kids could busk outside - we'd make a fortune, especially if we dressed them in rags with no shoes. Probably be even more profitable than sending them up chimneys like this year.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 10:55 AM

brilliant, looking forward to the CD.

..not enough good new songs of militant resistance and defiance!!!

However, maybe just a little clear perspective is due on on all this nonsense.

It is after all only just one solitary 'Adult Only' event in an entire calendar
of nationwide family friendly "Folk" 'Festivals'.

Millions of deserving citizens of all ages get economically 'excluded' every single day
from all kinds of activities they aspire to but can never afford.

Why not qracefully count your blessings, and stop being so begrudging about one single event
you feel personaly irked by.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 10:33 AM

"If you do decide to mount a lone vigil outside Bulins next winter,"

He'll not be alone....... solidarity comrade, solidarity!

We'll probably bring the kids as well, get them to play their fiddles to the chosen few who ARE allowed into Butlin's hallowed halls as they pass us all on the roadside.

Afterwards, we'll write folk songs about our struggle for equality for the excluded, younger members of our society..... and bask in the rosy glow of radical, direct action - remembered.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: I don't know
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 10:19 AM

Don't you mean a pint of that nice REAL ALE they were serving. Few expected that.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 09:48 AM

Some grown ups spend way too much time in the company of children.
I know a middle aged nursery school teacher who acts up like a spoiled 3 year old
whenever she can't get her own way.

Likewise, some grown ups here seem to be behaving like playground bullies picking on the new kid.

"miss, miss, missss.. it's not my fault, he started it"

"now come along little theleveller, teacher saw everything from the classroom window, thats not really what happened,
is it ?
.. and Banjiman just because you saw theleveller pick on erbert, you shouldn't have joined in and ganged up on him as well.
Sit down quietly Spleen Cringe, stop sniggering while I'm talking.
I don't know, what am going to do with you all ? I'm going to have to write letters to your mums and Dads..."



Come on theleveller you seem to have gone a bit potty on this thread.
Your extremist ideological stance on this issue you have created re: Adults only weekends at Butlins
is just exposing you for ridicule.
You really should read back to see where any hostility eminated from.
Likewise any selective misinterpretation of what I actually wrote and meant.

If you do decide to mount a lone vigil outside Bulins next winter,
defiantly holding a placard in protest on your solitary picket line.
Don't feel too proud if some of the good generous hearted folk here
bring you out the occasional steaming hot mug of Butlins tea or coffee.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 07:03 AM

"some adults are a pain in the backside as well!"

As is demonstrated every year at Cambridge - and one of the reasons we've stopped going.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:16 AM

Leadfingers........ the point is that it is SOME children, some adults are a pain in the backside as well!


I'm glad the event went well, just sad that me and mine were excluded.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 06:10 AM

'erbert DOES have a very good point about SOME children and their parents . Personally I would rather NOT have to entertain badly behaved children - When Mummy and Daddy think it's FUNNY when their litle bastard pulls the microphone stand away from a singer or musician , it's beyond a joke ! I have had that happen more than once .
And the behaviour of SOME Brats in pubs leaves a lot to be desired as well .
I have NO problem with well behaved youngsters , and actively encourage the younger musicians at our session at Sidmouth , so dont take this as a blanket denouncement of children , any more than (I think) 'erberts was a blanket !


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 04:38 AM

BTW - do you know how much I hate people who start sentences with "look"? Going to have to watch that!!


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 04:32 AM

LOL! Look, I'm not begrudging people a pleasurable weekend and I'm pleased that the majority seemed have enjoyed it. If erbert hadn't come in as so aggressively anti-children (ot to mention anti-just about everything else) I'd have left it at that. But........well, you know the rest.

""Big Weekend Anarchy Nostalgia Music Festival" !!!???

Yeah, but can I bring my kids?"

Hey, Paul, I've a suspicion one of mine might be out there making his own anarchy nostalgia.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: melodeonboy
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 04:15 AM

"This debate seems to be getting silly"

Oh, goodee! :)


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: I don't know
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 04:06 AM

This debate seems to be getting silly, with talks of bears & woods & whether or not kids should be aloud.
It is simple Butlins supply a mixture of ADULT only weekends at times when the camp is not being used to help keep there staff employed & YES TO LINE THERE OWN POCKETS. We all realise that, but for Three nights Bed, Breakfast & evening meal complete with entertainment my husband & I paid £180.00
The accommodation was far better than we expected & the food had a good selection, not just chips.
As I said earlier I agreed with Pulseroom it was phanomenal & as much as I love kids & believe they should be included in events this was lovely, not having to worry about what they were up to or missing an artist because of bedtime or better still no tantrums because they could not do what they wanted.   A peaceful weekend were we could unwind & have adult company & conversations without interruptions from our kids was heaven.
Anyone that was there also had the opportunity to book for next year(we have) at this years prices.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 03:27 AM

"You can't have kids at Butlins without Billy Bear.

The Great British Folk Festival is a winter event.

Bears hibernate in the winter."

OK, fair point well made!!!


'erbert, did everything at Butlin's come with chips....... or did you have to share the ones on your shoulders?

I'm confued, on the one hand you're saying live and let live..... on the other you're attacking whole groups of people. Including some that I belong to.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: melodeonboy
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 03:17 AM

Have they got woods at Butlin's then? :)


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Harry H
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 02:50 AM

I'm afraid some of you are so keen to debate semantics that you overlook the obvious....

You can't have kids at Butlins without Billy Bear.

The Great British Folk Festival is a winter event.

Bears hibernate in the winter.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Dec 10 - 01:20 AM

Your welcome Frank :-)


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:57 PM

Be interesting to hear a few more comments from people who actually went to the event rather than speculation and presumption. Oh and Arthur thanks for the link......given the support and informed input of aficionados such as yourself maybe the seeds of a new folk experience could lead to the Butlin's gig being elevated to the status of festival.

Carpe Diem !!

Frank


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 04:30 PM

ROTFLMAO erbert


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 02:38 PM

sorry, missed out..

antagonistic moralistic people constantly on the look out for things to make a public show of taking offence at;
and those who habitually attack others for things they completely misconstrued or imagined they heard them say..

think I'm done for now, it's dinner time.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 02:22 PM

"So which is it you really hate... ??"

hmm.. well.. seeing as you've asked,

smug self-appointed 'culture' bullies;
affluent alternative lifestylers with no clue about real world employment and housing conditions;
intolerant sanctimonious idealogues who are a potential liability for any progressive cause they condescend to 'fight for',
folk expending most of their effort on jostling for personal position and scoring points
in there own self generated & perpetuating public disagreements...

Oh and definitely must not forget your average right-wing pub bores
and any other not particularly bright puffed up self-righteousness egotists and hypocrites:


they all tend to get on my tits a bit.

but hatred ?

not really, that's too much negative effort and far too stressful to maintain long term.

But I don't know if I like you because I don't know you..
so, live and let live ???


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:38 PM

Word up, Banji!


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 01:31 PM

"Big Weekend Anarchy Nostalgia Music Festival" !!!???

must be a fair few grey haired crustie trustifarian's up for a weekends all-in catered entertainment,
pockets bulging with a few spare quid to splash out on CDs and Teeshirts... "

Yeah, but can I bring my kids?




"Butlins Holiday Campers versus posh Folk Fest snobs;"

That's a bit cheap even for you isn't it 'erbert?


"I am personally simply sick of my enjoyment of live Folk music being constantly spoiled by the disruptive antics of spoiled children, encouraged by selfish inconsiderate middle-class 'creative artsy hippy' type parents."

So which is it you really hate- children, the middle class, creative people, artsy people, hippies, parents........ or just everyone who isn't exactly like you??

And you dare to lecture theleveller about how to deal with 'isms?


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:54 PM

Now there's an idea; wondering if Butlins are ever considering staging a...

"Big Weekend Anarchy Nostalgia Music Festival" !!!???

must be a fair few grey haired crustie trustifarian's up for a weekends all-in catered entertainment,
pockets bulging with a few spare quid to splash out on CDs and Teeshirts...


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 12:13 PM

Cor! I didn't know you had to be posh to go to a folk festival. You learn something new every day.

And never mind Crass. Gimme The Mob and The Astronauts anyday - anarchy always sounds better with tunes you can whistle...


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:58 AM

"******FIGHT******"


yeah.. Butlins Holiday Campers versus posh Folk Fest snobs;

cartoon Class War combatants battling it out on the village greens of rural 2nd Homes Albionshire..

must dig out some old CRASS LPs.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:52 AM

It hasn't even started Pulseroom. :-)

We haven't discussed what Folk Music is yet LOL


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Pulseroom
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:48 AM

Is this saga still going on? Be careful! If Harry Hill gets involved there could be a ******FIGHT******.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:40 AM

oops, silly culturally inexperienced Corporate Leisure & Entertainments Butlins marketing team,
using the word 'Festival'
in a way incompatible with the severe dictates of Mudcat Folk Legislature..


"Folk Concert Weekend" sounds plenty good enough to me if I can afford the good value for money entrance ticket
for next Year.

Though in the real world where the word 'Festival' is now just another 'letraset' marketing adjective to dress up
any large commercial leisure event.. can they not be forgiven such a careless crass misdemenor ?

..and as for the enticing notion of steamy all-in open singaround sessions
in the spa and sauna !!!???


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:12 AM

Because, as I understand it,the only thing people got was Concerts.

A folk Festival is not just Concerts. There are lots more things involved, such as Morris Dancing, Ceilidhs, Educational things for children and more, Workshops, Stalls and above all Singarounds and Sessions etc etc. And don't forget the real ale.

If it was a Folk Festival it would be something like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PUif4un3Vg

When you have had time to watch all of it (and I mean all), come back on here and we can discuss further.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 10:06 AM

So why no kids? Are we talking car keys in the goldfish bowl? A swingers weekend cunningly disguised as a folk event? Adult-only fun, eh? Well, I guess there were a lot of 70s throwbacks on the bill...


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Chordcrasher
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:56 AM

It was certainly in the could do better catagory but any music this time of year is a bonus. There needs to be more joiny in bits. The open mic thing was just lame run by the twat that made a complete bollocks of the band Pie that filled in for the Unthanks. The Oysterband saved the weekend for me they were as usual just excellent. Sandy Thom who knew she was a great blues player if you had never seen her?


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM

And on what do you base that statement Arthuritis

Frank


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:44 AM

Well it certainly isn't a Folk Festival at Butlins. More like a weekend Concert

100


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:42 AM

Hmmm....Amazing how the heat on this one has cranked up more than a touch!! However it would be naive to assume that Butlins were in this for their commitment to the folk music tradition or any other philanthropic or indeed artistic motive. Nor do I believe that there is any consideration other than generating money from a resource that would remain un/under-used in out of season months of the year. In economic terms it would appear to be a sensible commercial decision to maximise potential revenue by experimenting with different forms of entertainment. The decision to make it adult only may well stem not from an exclusivity principle but rather cost effectiveness. Perhaps they feel that it is easier/cheaper to police a load of old folkies rather than to cater for younger folk. Given that this was their first attempt it seemed to work at a certain level. For the most part the music was good, the facilities good and the accommodation good. Was it a festival in the generally held sense of the word, probably not. But it was a very cost effective way of seeing some great artists in a series of concerts in a short space of time and in comfortable surroundings. Certainly there is a lot of scope for further development and that has been alluded to in a number of posts above. It would make a lot of sense if those who have strong feelings about changes to the set up articulated them to the organisers but in a constructive way rather than with some of the vitriol that seems to have crept into the analysis. Lets face it a lot of the established folk festivals receive loads of criticism all the time e.g. Cambridge, Broadstairs etc. Its abundantly clear that one size doesn't and won't fit all. Nor should they. In the same way that folk clubs, sessions etc. are constructed in different ways so festivals or mass folk events should be encouraged to have their own focus and personality. All in all I feel that any attempt to facilitate the enjoyment of music is to be encouraged and I worry when such attempts become denigrated because they don't conform to someone view of a formula. Personal tastes and preferences inform our choices. I shudder to think that all festivals throughout the year would be carbon copies of each other.......variety and spice of life etc. As to kids at festivals...that's fine as long as they want to be there and haven't just been dragged along kicking and screaming. My kids were raised on music and concerts and festivals and are both now at the stage where they are starting their musical careers.....not exactly in the folk tradition but they are bloody good at what they do and have learned a lot from listening and attending events. I feel that its unfortunate that some people posting above can't see the positives of a new initiative........there may be scope for influence and evolution but for gods sake give it a chance. I was very sceptical about the weekend initially but it was enjoyable and cost effective and potentially could become better. So lighten up folks, be positive and keep asking yourselves.......

what is a folk festival?

Frank


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 09:28 AM

I am already excluded from far too many events I'd like to attend because I'm too skint !!!
I don't expect too be invited to many other social functions because of my stubborn refusal to wear a suit and tie.

I really don't anticipate much practical difference to my social life when I retire.
In fact, it might even pick up a bit with the local U3A widows.

"The biggest problem with trying to change people's attitudes to issues such as ageism is apathy"

well no one will ever achieve much positive change in social attitudes
by hectoring and nagging, and presenting one's genuinely valid arguements
in abrasive self-defeating ways that alienate public sympathy.

Also consider how many folk music aficionados and activists are overworked overstressed teachers
and other education and social child service workers.
Please spare a thought for their leisure time relaxation requirements
in you almighty plan to save the world from 'ageism'.


Maybe a lot of active older folk would find your overzealous professional concern on their behalf
somewhat patronising.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:55 AM

Don't try to be patronisng, erbert, it's not funny and it's not clever.

The biggest problem with trying to change people's attitudes to issues such as ageism is apathy - until, that is, they find that it is actually being used against them. Like I said before: what would your attitude be if you were excluded from an event because of your age?


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:42 AM

Relax a bit theleveller , you are in danger of letting your job get to you, affecting your personality
in quite negative intolerant antagonistic ways.

Perhaps you need a weekend break ?

It is possible to be a positive ideological activist without becoming an over-defensive obnoxious combative fool,
imagining enemies and hidden agendas where they do not exist.

I am not far off your age, and equally proud of a campaigning lifetime of politicized progressive 'issues' involvement.

Sadly, I have also encountered far too many self regarding complete knobheads
who do more counter-productive harm for our causes than if they were actually working for the 'other side'.

Look at yourself and what you are saying here.

You truly begrudge one specifically Adults Only 'Folk' event
in an entire calender of family friendly Folk Festivals ?

I am personally simply sick of my enjoyment of live Folk music being constantly spoiled
by the disruptive antics of spoiled children, encouraged by selfish inconsiderate middle-class 'creative artsy hippy' type parents.

I don't care how they try to justify and rationalise their anti social attitudes and behaviour
with unconvincing glib 'pop' theories & idealism.

I, for one, refuse to be bullied pigeonholed and denigrated for stating not unreasonable opinions.


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 08:24 AM

Agree wholeheartedly, Leveller. The best events are those which are all-inclusive, and where -isms of any kind are discouraged.

However, it's undeniable that there exists a certain kind of parent whose obsession with their own children reaches such a pitch of besottedness that they are incapable of recognising when the behaviour of their children is detracting from other peoples' enjoyment of an event, and who take great exception to this being pointed out to them.

So maybe the answer is to encourage that kind of parent to recognise their childrens' failings and take responsibility for their behaviour? In that way, the objections of adults to child-inclusive events could be forestalled.

I say this from the POV of a 63-year-old parent of two boys (now adults!) who took them with him everywhere he went (and that was to a lot of places and events, of all types) but who always tried to ensure he kept firm control on them when they were wont to behave badly or in an inconsiderate manner (as, indeed, all children do from time to time).


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Subject: RE: Folk Festival at Butlins Fri-3-Mon-6 Dec 2010 (UK)
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 10 - 06:51 AM

Just to clarify my position.

What particularly annoys me is that this type of event spits in the face of those of us who are fighting not only the negative stereotyping of folk music but, more importantly, the negative stereotyping of the mature generation – yet people happily go along with it!

As someone who is rapidly approaching my 62nd year, I work for an organisation that is active in the promotion of the rights, image and integration of older people. I spend much of my time battling against the idea that older people are out of touch, over the hill and objects of derision. We don't want to be sidelined and isolated – we want to be included in the activities that are enjoyed by younger people. Therefore, I will continue to actively oppose events that exclude youngsters and, therefore, also exclude those adults who have children and are not prepared to leave them behind, because they are actively promoting age segregation. It is blatant age discrimination. It is reinforcing age barriers. It is against everything that I, and many other older people, are fighting to banish from our society.

So, if you support this type of event, don't ever complain about ageism or about negative stereotypes of folk music as the domain of 'old gits' portrayed in the press. You have only yourselves to blame!


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