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BS: what about Glen Beck?

Greg F. 29 Aug 11 - 11:49 AM
Stringsinger 29 Aug 11 - 11:35 AM
michaelr 29 Aug 11 - 12:18 AM
michaelr 29 Aug 11 - 12:16 AM
dick greenhaus 28 Aug 11 - 08:28 PM
Greg F. 28 Aug 11 - 09:09 AM
Jack the Sailor 27 Aug 11 - 11:18 PM
Kent Davis 27 Aug 11 - 06:21 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 13 Jul 11 - 11:48 AM
Greg F. 13 Jul 11 - 07:11 AM
Jack the Sailor 13 Jul 11 - 01:06 AM
Kent Davis 12 Jul 11 - 10:41 PM
Donuel 09 Jul 11 - 09:14 PM
Greg F. 09 Jul 11 - 08:56 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 09 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM
Greg F. 09 Jul 11 - 06:14 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 09 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 11:38 PM
Kent Davis 06 Jul 11 - 10:48 PM
Ebbie 06 Jul 11 - 10:34 PM
Kent Davis 06 Jul 11 - 10:28 PM
Kent Davis 06 Jul 11 - 10:19 PM
Kent Davis 06 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM
Donuel 06 Jul 11 - 09:50 PM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 09:30 PM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 09:23 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 07:42 PM
Kent Davis 06 Jul 11 - 07:05 PM
Jack the Sailor 06 Jul 11 - 06:37 PM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 02:49 PM
Wesley S 06 Jul 11 - 02:39 PM
GUEST,number 6 06 Jul 11 - 02:06 PM
GUEST,number 6 06 Jul 11 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,TIA 06 Jul 11 - 01:27 PM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 12:14 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 12:00 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 11:57 AM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 11:55 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 11:33 AM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 10:49 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Jul 11 - 09:44 AM
Greg F. 06 Jul 11 - 09:26 AM
Big Al Whittle 06 Jul 11 - 05:56 AM
Jack the Sailor 06 Jul 11 - 03:43 AM
John on the Sunset Coast 05 Jul 11 - 11:12 PM
Greg F. 05 Jul 11 - 09:11 PM
Jack the Sailor 05 Jul 11 - 09:03 PM
Kent Davis 05 Jul 11 - 08:32 PM
Greg F. 05 Jul 11 - 01:09 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 11:49 AM

So why does opposing the policies of the government of Israel automatically make one anti-semitic?

It doesn't. But a lot of people - out of ignorance, opportunism, or politival chicanery, confuse Anti-Zionism with Anti-Semitism.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 11:35 AM

There is a false equivalency given to those on the " Left" and "Right" which should be recognized as arbitrary and specious divisions defined by corporate media.

There have always been pundits who have dominated the media espousing reactionary hate speech ideas.

Few today remember, Walter Winchell, Father Coughlin, Gerald L.K. Smith, Francis Townsend, and William Dudley Palley. There is a tradition of hate speech punditry that has been with us for a long time.

There are truth tellers historically. Edward R. Murrow is one and Keith Olbermann follows in his tradition and is not the opposite of Beck, Hannity, Rush or O'Reilly but is his own voice.
This false equivalency is a propaganda mechanism used by certain members of the media to discredit any dissent from the current prevailing media cant.

Those who don't see the difference between these commentators are adding to the problem of dis and misinformation of news.

Critical thinking will dispel the idea of false equivalency and obliterate the so-called middle-of-the-road position, which in reality doesn't exist but has been manufactured by those in the media to suppress important information.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 12:18 AM

To the thread topic: Glenn Beck is an idiot and it's a good he lost his pulpit. Fuck him to hell.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: michaelr
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 12:16 AM

So why does opposing the policies of the government of Israel automatically make one anti-semitic?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 08:28 PM

"Pro-Israel" and "Anti-Semitic"are not mutually exclusive terms.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:09 AM

Whether or not he may or may not be an "ant-semite", he most certain;y is an ignorant, delusional, fanatical loud-mouthed asshole.

Isn't that enough?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 11:18 PM

Is Israeli so desperate for friends?

You don't have to look far to find Glenn Beck saying outrageously stupid and contradictory things. He is not known for clear thinking or consistency. He makes his living telling willfully ignorant people the things they want to hear.

Regardless of what you two believe, or where you donate, I shall continue to consider complaints of Anti-semitism by the ADL as authoritative. I also heard what Beck said about Soros. I thought that it was very disrespectful of Mr Soros' heritage.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:21 PM

Jack the Sailor,

Are these the words of an anti-semite?   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI--uBkOS9o&feature=related

Kent


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 11:48 AM

Jack, as one who is relatively sensitive to that evil phenomenon, I don't find what Glenn Beck said or wrote about George Soros to be anti-Semitic, but, rather, anti-George Soros. I don't know whether or not Soros did what Beck accused him of, but haven't seen any news of a suit for libel or slander by Soros against Beck...so maybe yes.

While the ADL may not like to own to it, some Jews did collaborate with Nazis during the Holocaust of WWII. Some did if for venal motives; some thinking they were helping the many by sacrificing fewer Jews. I don't know which fits Soros, assuming he was a collaborator.

Our family has diminished it's support of the ADL in the last few years, and as long as the current leadership heads the organization, we will send those donations elsewhere. Foxman does not speak for all Jews, only himself and the ADL.

Jack, there may be many reasons to dislike or criticize Beck's politics for Liberal/Progressives like yourself--or even for some centrist Conservatives--but anti-Semitism is not one of those reasons. Beck has been in Israel at least twice this year, speaking to the Knesset (legislature) on one occasion. Call me crazy, but I don't think the Knesset generally allows anti-Semites to address it. He is planning a rally in support of Israel, in Israel, in August.

I think it time you got off this 'Beck as an anti-Semite' horse, Jack.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 07:11 AM

Not the Ropmans, Kent- the ITALIANS.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Jul 11 - 01:06 AM

Kent,

If a complaint by the
ADL is not evidence of anti-semitism in your mind, what would it take?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 10:41 PM

I've been busy so didn't see Donuel's comments and Greg F.'s question until today.

Donuel, you accuse a man of anti-Semitism with no evidence, claiming that the evidence is well-hidden. Anyone can play that game. I could accuse you of hating Turks. There is no evidence that you hate Turks, but maybe you are just hiding the evidence. Or maybe not.

The absence of smoke does not necessarily mean that the fire is well-hidden.


Greg F., Tacitus provides a nice answer to your question about what the Italians were doing in Judea. This is from HISTORIES, Book V, sections 9 and 10, (Loeb Classical Library, 1931)http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Tacitus/Histories/5A*.html#9

The first Roman to subdue the Jews and set foot in their temple by right of conquest was Gnaeus Pompey;29 thereafter it was a matter of common knowledge that there were no representations of the gods within, but that the place was empty and the secret shrine contained nothing. The walls of Jerusalem were razed, but the temple remained standing. Later, in the time of our civil wars, when these eastern provinces had fallen into the hands of Mark Antony, the Parthian prince, Pacorus, seized Judea, but he was slain by Publius Ventidius, and the Parthians were thrown back across the Euphrates:30 the Jews were subdued by Gaius Sosius.31 Antony gave the throne to Herod, and Augustus, after his victory, increased his power. After Herod's death, a certain Simon32 assumed the name of king without waiting for Caesar's decision. He, however, was put to death by Quintilius Varus, governor of Syria; the Jews were repressed; and the kingdom was divided into three parts and given to Herod's sons.33 Under Tiberius all was quiet. Then, when Caligula ordered the Jews to set up his statue in their temple, they chose rather to resort to arms, but the emperor's death put an end to their uprising. The princes now being dead or reduced to insignificance, Claudius made Judea a province and entrusted it to Roman knights or to freedmen; one of the latter, Antonius Felix, practised every kind of cruelty and p193lust, wielding the power of king with all the instincts of a slave;34 he had married Drusilla, the grand-daughter of Cleopatra and Antony, and so was Antony's grandson-in‑law, while Claudius was Antony's grandson.

10 Still the Jews' patience lasted until Gessius Florus became procurator:35 in his time war began. When Cestius Gallus, governor of Syria, tried to stop it, he suffered varied fortunes and met defeat more often than he gained victory. On his death, whether in the course of nature or from vexation, Nero sent out Vespasian, who, aided by his good fortune and reputation as well as by his excellent subordinates, within two summers occupied with his victorious army the whole of the level country and all the cities except Jerusalem. The next year was taken up with civil war, and thus was passed in inactivity so far as the Jews were concerned. When peace had been secured throughout Italy, foreign troubles began again; and the fact that the Jews alone had failed to surrender increased our resentment; at the same time, having regard to all the possibilities and hazards of a new reign, it seemed expedient for Titus to remain with the army.

Kent

P.S. Some of you may be interested in Luke's references to some of those mentioned by Tacitus. There are many references to Herod and his sons (Luke 1:5, 3:1, 3:19, 23:7-11 Acts 12:1-23 and others, as well as references to Augustus (Luke 2:1), Tiberius (Luke 3:1), Claudius (Acts 11:28, 18:2), Felix (Acts 23:24-24:27), and Drusilla (Acts 24:24).


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 09:14 PM

Sunset John, thank you for the correct edit regarding Father Coughlin of the 1930's.

Glen has called himself a TV evangelist on more than one occaision and would very much like to have the immunity that "Speaking for God" gives these self proclaimed men of God.

Glen Beck may now take his place along side other shock jocks and shills who have had a brief TV exposure, people like Michael Savage, Mark Levine, Rush Limbaugh, laura Ingram and Joseph McCarthy (in news reels)

I have no proof that Beck is a anti semite. I suspect the only thing that holds him back from a personal full disclosure is his attempt to accuse Obama of being an anti semite regarding his policy towards Isreal which is pointedly against the far right wing of the Isreali Government, in which Netanyahu is a member.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 08:56 PM

Well, SOMEBODY needs to tell me why the Italians were in Judea & what they had against Jesus.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 07:03 PM

As I recall from Kent's earlier post the use of the word 'Italian' was his, not Becks...so I guess you gotta ask Kent.

My work is done here.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 06:14 PM

OK, then, so what were all these "Italians" that were responsible for the crucixion of Christ according to Beck doing in Judea?

They lost?


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Subject: RE: BS: Italian Problem
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM

I think we can solve the Italian problem...somewhat.

In researching Roman Legions, I came across the website livius.org. which incorporates a short history of the various armies. There were three Italic Legions, ironically named I, II & III respectively.

Italic II and Italic III were mid-late second century CE legions and apparently never saw action in Palestina (formerly Judea). Italic I was founded by Nero c.66/67CE, about thirty years after the crucifixion, so it could not have seen action in Judea at the time of Christ. However, parts of the Legion may have fought in the Bar Kochva Revolt in Judea in the 130s CE.

So if Luke wrote Acts, it is unlikely that he would have used the term Italian Legion/Cohort/ Regiment in referring to a specific army. It didn't exist for him. This leaves at least three possibilities. Acts was indeed written by Luke and later edited incorrectly. Or Acts was written later than Luke, and probably later than the Bar Kochva Revolt, by an author who could have been aware of Italic I, and anachronistically puts Cornelius in that Legion at the time of Christ. Or the Latin source quoted at Livius is wrong, in which case we're back where we started.

All of that said, this does not negate the contemporaneous use of an equivalent term Italia/Italic/Italian referring to people and geography, pre-Crucifixion, in the area now known as Italy at the least, or within any part of the Roman Empire. I'm satisfied it was so used, until someone comes up with evidence to the contrary.

Note CE=AD


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 11:38 PM

I think Donuel meant Father Coughlin, a Catholic priest who promoted isolationism, was anti-New Deal, anti-Communist and anti-Semitic. He had a populist radio program through the 1930s until demoted by the Church in 1942. Actually, except for the anti-Semitism (I'm not sure about isolationism), Glenn Beck may share some of Coughlin's ideas in a context for today.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:48 PM

Sigh...is anyone able and willing to fix the link or the Greek letter display? The letters were just slightly distorted in the message preview.

Kent

P.S.

Donuel, to what were you referring when when you wrote of Glenn Beck "I don't think he ever really got his church thing established in any organized way". His "church thing" is the LDS church. It's about as organized as they come.

And why do you attribute the founding of Regent University to Jerry Falwell? Jerry Falwell didn't establish Regent.

And when you write "HE is a modern day Father Flanagan", what do you mean? Father Flanagan is known for establishing a orphanage in Nebraska in 1917, which was a pretty cool thing to do, but I'm not seeing the connection with Glenn Beck.

Kent


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:34 PM

Is this pertinent?

"Etruscan civilization, highest civilization in Italy before the rise of Rome. The core of the territory of the Etruscans, known as Etruria to the Latins, was northwest of the Tiber River, now in modern Tuscany and part of Umbria. The Latins called the people Etrusci or Tusci, and the Greeks called them Tyrrhenoi [whence Tyrrhenian Sea]; they called themselves Rasenna

Read more: Etruscan civilization Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0817803.html#ixzz1RNmwrcbB"


Etruscan or Italian?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:28 PM

Still didn't work. Click on the 3rd word of the 9th line in the link that does work, then click again on "Middle Liddell". Here is the "cut and paste" since I can't get the link to work. The "cut and paste" does NOT correctly preserve the Greek letters. The first letter, the thing that looks like a capital gamma, is actually a capital iota with a smooth breathing mark.

Ἰfrom Ἰ 1

[select] an Italiote, i. e. a Greek inhabitant of Italy, Thuc.:fem. Ἰῶ, , adj. Italian, id=Thuc.

1 *)italiw/ths, ou,

Kent


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:19 PM

2nd try with translation http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=*%28ellhnikw%3Dn&la=greek&prior=a)koh=|&d=Perseus:text:1999.01.0199:book=7:chapter=


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:17 PM

Greg F.,

Thucydides (died around 400 B.C.), PELOPONNESIAN WAR, Book 7, chapter 87, in this link, the ninth line, the third word http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:abo:tlg,0003,001:7:87

Translation of the word http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=*%29italiwtw%3Dn&la=greek&prior=h)\&d=Perseus:text:1999.01.0199:book=7:chapter=87&i


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:50 PM

Racism, bigotry and hate mogering aside,
deep down Glen is just an effeminate mesoginist with a man crush on the Koch Bros. or any multi billionaire willing to pay for his shilling talents.

His shtick is as old as the hills. Maybe the only thing new is the way he usurps the good works of MLK and other great humanitarians, while simultaneously setting up a "university" system like Jerry Flawell's Regent college. I don't think he ever really got his church thing established in any organized way.

HE is a modern day Father Flanagan with an understanding of accusing any populace movemwnt with the faults and crimes of the Corporate Republic class.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:30 PM

If you were not implying that Beck hates Jews, what exactly were you implying?

Once again, Kent, I wasn't "IMPLYING" anything.

I was saying that both Holocaust deniers and Beck are idiots of the same stripe not worth wasting time on & that attempting to "debate" with either only serves to legitimize their lunatic bullshit.

Thanks for the BBC bit, but their use the word "Italy" isn't at issue.
What IS at issue, is did they use the word "Italians".


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:23 PM

John, far be it from me to tell anyone what sources they can use. However, if one uses crap sources, one shouldn't be surprised if one is called on it.

But be that as it may & to get back to the point at issue: your excerpt still doesn't indicate or even suggest that any group of people were referred to at the time in question as "Italians".


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:42 PM

Hmmm. I didn't know that in argumentation you could tell the other fellow what sources he's allowed to argue from. Be that as it may, Greg, I would think if mine was ohhh so bad, you easily could have demolished it with facts, rather than snide innuendo and dismissal. Live and learn.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 07:05 PM

Greg F.,

I apologize for not making it clear that, in the post-script to my post of 8:32 p.m. yesterday, I was writing to you, not writing about you.

I can see how you might have taken it the other way.

However, although I was writing to you (NOT about you), you did bring up THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION (July 4th, 10:10 a.m.) and you did say "I would not waste my time debating a Holocaust denier & Beck's idiocies place him in the same category" on July 4th, 2:45 p.m. If you were not implying that Beck hates Jews, what exactly were you implying?

Kent

P.S.

Here is an etymlogy of the word "Italia" which indicates that both Thucycdides and Aristotle used the word "Italy". The source is the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A72812108


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 06:37 PM

>>>"Obama, has a deep seated hatred of white people"

Whom are you quoting, Jack? The guy who periodically passes out anti-Obama literature in front of my post office? Your next door neighbor? Did whomever say this alleged quote provide instances that would support that assertion? Did you just make it up?

Jack, you've already be caught quoting out of context at this thread. You've posted nothing (a@3:43A) that deserves an answer or rehabilitates your credibility. <<<

Why don't you just answer the question about whether it is racist or not?

You didn't "catch" me. I immediately told you how to find the context. Stop flattering your self and use your brain.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM

...showing that that term Italian was extant in Augustan times...

No, John, you posted a screed from Blog-O-Pedia (a source not accepted by most high-school teachers, by the way)- that "...the multi-ethnic territory of Italy was included in the Roman Italy (Italia)..."

Note "multi-ethnic".

Nowhere does your excerpt, be it fact or fiction, indicate or even suggest that any group of peoples were referred to at that time as "Italians".

But that is besides the point. I've been discussing and enquiring about about Kent's posting, not yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:49 PM

A few days ago I posted showing that that term Italian was extant in Augustan times (pre-Crucifixion). You did not like my source, but you have not offered a counter-source. So as you have not rebutted my conclusion that 'Italian' may have been a suitable term (in first century Judea and even in the Gospels) it stands. It is not up to me to give you another source until you've proved your assertion, or at least disproved source.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:39 PM

Wow - 100 posts about Glen Beck. Any chance we're giving him more attention than he deserves?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:06 PM

correction ... a rat's ass about him

100 !

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:05 PM

"what about Glen Beck"

personally I don't give a rat's about him.

On saying that I wouldn't get my drawers in a knot about him or what his says .... anyway, his ratings are falling.

biLL


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 01:27 PM

"Whom are you quoting, Jack?"

snip----

On Fox & Friends today (July 28, 2009), Glenn Beck called Obama "a racist" during a discussion of how the president handled the arrest of Henry Louis Gates.

"This president, I think, has exposed himself as a guy, over and over and over again, who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture," Beck said. "I don't know what it is."

Following up on Beck's ridiculous claim, Fox's Brian Kilmeade pointed out that Obama is surrounded by white advisers like David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs and Rahm Emanuel.

"I'm not saying he doesn't like white people," Beck said. "I'm saying he has a problem. He has a -- this guy is, I believe, a racist."


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:14 PM

Can't have it both ways, John.

It was Kent who made the claim of use at the time of the Crucifixion in an attempt to refute a posting of mine.

According to your own "rules" (the same rules you keep beating me over the head with) its HIS job to substantiate his claim.

Which he, as yet, has not done.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 12:00 PM

One good pedant deserves another Greg.

"AT THE TIME OF THE CRUCUFIXION" Your job. Earn your degree.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 11:57 AM

"Obama, has a deep seated hatred of white people"

Whom are you quoting, Jack? The guy who periodically passes out anti-Obama literature in front of my post office? Your next door neighbor? Did whomever say this alleged quote provide instances that would support that assertion? Did you just make it up?

Jack, you've already be caught quoting out of context at this thread. You've posted nothing (a@3:43A) that deserves an answer or rehabilitates your credibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 11:55 AM

without scrolling through all his or your posts

Perhaps you should, to refresh your memory.

but it seems to be the accepted word today

Yes, John, but we're not talking about today. We're talking about the word' existence, or non-existance AT THE TIME OF THE CRUCUFIXION. Kent has still not provided any credible evidence.

And thanks for the pedantry. I stand corrected in my mis-use of "penultimate", typed in haste. But you DID figure out what I meant, despite all that.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 11:33 AM

You're right Greg, I misspelled your name, for which now everything I've written is invalidated. However, in both Greg and Gregg, there is one--and only one--penultimate G. Only the position is changed. G(penultimate)reG(ultimate)/G(antepenultimate)G(penultimate)reG(ultimate). Enough jocularity.

As I recall (without scrolling through all his or your posts), Kent offered Greek and English versions the word Italia/Italian in a context. The Greek may be correct...it may not be, but it seems to be the accepted word today. Was it written long after Christ...yes. Are there earlier versions? Perhaps. Are those versions which would prove that Italian is an incorrect usage/translation for that period extant? I don't know, but I'm guessing not. So if you deny the validity of the accepted sources, translations and usage, it is YOU who have to produce credible alternatives to refute Kent. That endeavor might merit a PhD. Good luck.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 10:49 AM

That's one penultimate "G", John. Please pay attention.

But thanks for the compliment & your support of my efforts. Appreciated!


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:44 AM

Keep dancing Gregg, you're doing fine.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 09:26 AM

He has provided current instances of generally accepted wording.

No, John.

In the first place we're not talking about "current instances" but evidences of the use of the word "Italians" - as a descriptor for the inhabitants of the country of Italy- in use 2000 years ago.

He claims that there are such. He has provided no actual evidence, other than a book of the the New Testament, written a century after Jesus' time, and copied/translates/edited/revised & etc some hundreds-if not thousands- of times since. I'm simply requesting the closest thing available to primary source material.

Its HIS claim that the term "Italian" is contemporary with the life of Jesus and so far he has provided nothing credible to substantiate the claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 05:56 AM

Is Kent the one who used to advertise Kent cigarettes in Readers Digest? The style is similar.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 11 - 03:43 AM

"Obama, has a deep seated hatred of white people"

Kent, John, is that racist or not?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 11:12 PM

Greg, you just don't get it. "Now, please tell me the date of the oldest extant manuscript in Greek of Acts:10 that exists, so we can see at what date errors of translation may have originated & simply been perpetuated."

That's your job if you want to refute Kent. He has provided current instances of generally accepted wording. Altho' he did not name any specifically, I found the term in the KJV, Douay (Catholic), NIV, and NAB, so I know you can do even better. If you want epigraphic, or historical research, that's on you.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 09:11 PM

I just checked twenty-five different translation of Acts 10:1.

Twenty-five, huh? Good Job, Sunshine.

Now, please tell me the date of the oldest extant manuscript in Greek of Acts:10 that exists, so we can see at what date errors of translation may have originated & simply been perpetuated.


people will state or imply that a man hates Jews, or that he is a racist, and then, when it becomes apparent that the charges are slanderous, don't even acknowledge their error?

If you are asserting that I said either of those things your either an idiot or a liar.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 09:03 PM

It hardly matters if he is racist. The lunacy overshadows that.


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Kent Davis
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 08:32 PM

Mr. F., Sir,

I just checked twenty-five different translation of Acts 10:1. Each translation disagrees with your assertion that the passage "uses the word to describe an INDIVIDUAL". All twenty-five indicate that it describes the cohort. All twenty-five translate the word as "Italian" or a variant such as "of Italy".

If indeed your translation corrects the errors of four centuries of Koine Greek scholarship, it seems surprising that you thought the passage was originally written in Aramaic.

Kent

P.S. Isn't it odd how people will state or imply that a man hates Jews, or that he is a racist, and then, when it becomes apparent that the charges are slanderous, don't even acknowledge their error?


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Subject: RE: BS: what about Glen Beck?
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:09 PM

Glen Morangie! NOW you're talkin' !


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