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New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.

GUEST,Phil B 26 Apr 10 - 07:29 PM
The Borchester Echo 17 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 17 Mar 10 - 02:26 PM
GUEST,Bardan 17 Mar 10 - 02:09 PM
Phil Edwards 17 Mar 10 - 08:21 AM
matt milton 17 Mar 10 - 07:51 AM
GUEST,Gym Cawsleigh 17 Mar 10 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,Ralphie 17 Mar 10 - 07:14 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 Mar 10 - 06:52 AM
Howard Jones 17 Mar 10 - 06:33 AM
The Borchester Echo 17 Mar 10 - 05:26 AM
George Ellias 16 Mar 10 - 10:40 PM
GUEST,Bardan 16 Mar 10 - 08:20 PM
glueman 16 Mar 10 - 04:06 PM
The Sandman 16 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,Suibhne (Astray) 16 Mar 10 - 02:14 PM
Folknacious 16 Mar 10 - 01:39 PM
Ruth Archer 16 Mar 10 - 01:17 PM
matt milton 16 Mar 10 - 01:12 PM
Mavis Enderby 16 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM
theleveller 16 Mar 10 - 12:58 PM
Banjiman 16 Mar 10 - 12:51 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM
matt milton 16 Mar 10 - 12:44 PM
glueman 16 Mar 10 - 12:44 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 12:38 PM
glueman 16 Mar 10 - 12:36 PM
glueman 16 Mar 10 - 12:34 PM
Banjiman 16 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM
Banjiman 16 Mar 10 - 12:30 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 12:28 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 12:25 PM
Jack Blandiver 16 Mar 10 - 12:21 PM
Banjiman 16 Mar 10 - 12:19 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 12:15 PM
Jack Blandiver 16 Mar 10 - 12:06 PM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 12:02 PM
GUEST,Gym Cawsleigh 16 Mar 10 - 11:52 AM
glueman 16 Mar 10 - 11:52 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 16 Mar 10 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,Working Radish 16 Mar 10 - 11:47 AM
GUEST,Working Radish, Fawning Lickspittle 16 Mar 10 - 11:45 AM
the Folk Police 16 Mar 10 - 11:33 AM
The Borchester Echo 16 Mar 10 - 11:10 AM
glueman 16 Mar 10 - 10:56 AM
Ruth Archer 16 Mar 10 - 10:35 AM
Jack Blandiver 16 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,beachcomber 16 Mar 10 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,Gym Cawsleigh 16 Mar 10 - 09:41 AM
matt milton 16 Mar 10 - 09:34 AM
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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Phil B
Date: 26 Apr 10 - 07:29 PM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-YSgN1HoXw

Jackie in the studio.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 02:49 PM

Here's a US review of Looking For A New England. The CD is available only as a covermount with fRoots 317/318


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 02:26 PM

"Also what does MOR stand for?"

Codename: 'Mega Orgiastic Radiation'

Otherwise defined as: "The hypothesised energetic physics of the subversive love-vibes of "folk music" (aka "musoc of the people"), which when radiated via 'radio waves' subtley but inevitably penetrate the brains of the multitude thus causing consequent induction of mass euphoric liberating ecstatic revolution of said 'people'"

It's a dangerous assignment, but some folk's gotta do it...


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 02:09 PM

I get the point about stereotypes about people who are into folk music not always being very helpful or true. But I see that as the problem rather than terms that (to me) just mean people who listen to/play folk music. If you described someone as 'gay' and then make all sorts of assumptions about what they're like as a person, the problem isn't the word gay it's silly preconceptions about what gay people are like. Maybe traddie or folkie are more pejorative than descriptive in your neck of the woods though BE.

Anyway, back to the new bands/performers mentioned further up- haven't heard of a lot of those, I'll have to see if I can check some of them out next time I've some spare cash. Any particular reccomendations?


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 08:21 AM

Splitters!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: matt milton
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 07:51 AM

To those complaining this thread has gone off-track, here's an off the top of the head list of UK based young and not-so-young folk (or thereabouts) musicians currently making good music in the UK.

Most of them have only come on my radar over the last 5 years. Some of them, like Ali Roberts, have been around a fair bit longer. Most are under 30. Not all of them are my cup of tea, but all are doing something interesting interesting.

I've no idea if this constitutes a revival, and I wasn't listening to folk in the 1980s/early 90s, but as far as I'm aware there wasn't music this interesting being made then.

Alasdair Roberts
Michael Rossiter
Sam Lee (and his Gillie Boys)
Nancy Wallace
Mary Hampton
Benjamin Wetherill
Jason Steel
Trevor Moss & Hannah Lou
David Broad
Little Robots
James Raynard
Kittiwakes
Laurel Swift
Trent Miller
Serious Sam Barrett
Boycott Coca Cola Experience
Ewan McLennan
Pepe Belmonte
Elle Osborne
the Lorcas
Benjamin Folke Thomas
Caroline Weekes
the Cedars
Jack Day
the Owl Project
Matthew Ord
Sunnie Dae
the Hanging Ropes
the Woordlarks
Harrisburg
Andy Hankdog
Emily C Smith
Dan Raza


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Gym Cawsleigh
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 07:44 AM

One more question: who/where has been allowing illegal downloads of my music? I'm so out of the loop! Also what does MOR stand for? I hope it's Music Of Renown!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 07:14 AM

Well.
I play Music.
I accompany Singers.
Some people like it.
Some don't.
Am I bovvered?
No I'm not.
Is it Trad or Folk???
Don't bloody care. It's just what I do.
Ralphie
(Listening to my multitracked version of Josefins Dropvals as I speak.)
I think it's quite good.
You might have a different opinion.
But as none of you are ever going to hear it......then I'll never know, Will I?


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 06:52 AM

Oh dear.

Is HJ actually unable to grasp that I am lampooning the concept that some "traddies & folkies" (for those determined to see themselves as such) can behave at times just as "massively offensively" as anyone else? And do.

A "shorthand" they might be (even if expressed with syntactical coherence, but not "useful".


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Howard Jones
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 06:33 AM

I think BE is being over-sensitive. Of course, both terms may be used insultingly or disparagingly, but they are not in themselves offensive. As for public perception, surely that is due more to the stereotypes (some of which are, unfortunately, justified) than the terminology.

I find them a useful shorthand - what other terms would you suggest?


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 05:26 AM

I've never seen 'traddies' or 'folkies' as massively offensive

No? I have, though I don't think that's quite what you meant.
What I said was that the terms are absurd and reinforce the public view that exponents of the tradarts are bonkers. That's what's offensive (to those who are not bonkers, that is).


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: George Ellias
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:40 PM

"Folk" songs live on. I know that here in Los Angeles there are a number of young kids and young adults who are playing "old-timey" music. They may think they are reviving something, even though it is already alive. I also know a number of people who were my age (23) and are now 40-50 who played tradition around Los Angeles the same way I am. As long as it gets passed down from generation to generation i'll be happy. Mainstream media is pretty far from accepting it back onto popular airwaves and television channels, unless musicians start to tinge their new original songs with traditional verses and melodies.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 08:20 PM

From the limited ammount of recent releases I've heard, there is more good-quality engish folk (definitions at the ready...draw) being recorded and sold in the last few years than there had been. This might be only cos I've taken more of an interest so I've noticed or maybe the famous internet based democratisation of music is finally happening or maybe theres a resurgeant interest in it. Of course it won't appeal to everyone, and it's diverse enough that it's unlikely to all appeal to even one person. But hey, that's music for you.
As to the americana side of things I've no idea but I'm sure someone here could check.
I've never seen 'traddies' or 'folkies' as massively offensive. I'd tend to refer to myself by one or the other. There's stereotypes that go with folk music however you refer to the musicians/listeners and judging from some photos of the seventies and a few comments from people on here some of them are probably justified, but I'm not that bothered so long as I can listen to good music and at least try to play it.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: glueman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 04:06 PM

Another Organist Entertains fan here. I also agree Mudcatters are too ready to shout bor-ing at any thread that doesn't follow their paradigm/prejudices. Shit flinging is not compulsory.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM

"It is posts like yours which represent the same old pointless Mudcat crap, Folknacious." quote.
I agree .


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Suibhne (Astray)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 02:14 PM

We narrowly escaped an outburst from the paranoid quotescrambler and so far haven't been Sidmouthbabbled, but apart from that it's descended to the same old pointless Mudcat crap.

It is posts like yours which represent the same old pointless Mudcat crap, Folknacious - everything said here has been bang on thread, and constructive too for the most part - generally because, like me, people do care otherwise they wouldn't bother. Like I say, Folk is our country - we live in it, we love it, but we're under no illusions about its questionable heritage, the darker episodes of its history nor yet its current mismanagement; naturally enough we also fear for its future, and the role we each have to play therein.

Still, let's all lighten up, eh? I was reading in the Radio Times the other day that as well as scrapping certain radio stations, the BBC wants to feature more folk on Radio Two. Maybe they'll be restore The Organist Entertains to its full hour slot whilst they're at it. I love that show & might lose myself in its true eclecticism, but it just hasn't been the same since they sliced it down to 30 minutes.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Folknacious
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:39 PM

Couldn't be arsed to read most of your post

Yes, I am de-arsed too. A long way back this topic was about a new revival of folk music in England, which sounded interesting. Then it turned out it wasn't, it was about nouveau indie C&W. We narrowly escaped an outburst from the paranoid quotescrambler and so far haven't been Sidmouthbabbled, but apart from that it's descended to the same old pointless Mudcat crap. I mean, what's the point?


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:17 PM

Spinachy, to be honest I couldn't care less. Couldn't be arsed to read most of your post, couldn't be arsed to read the endless disappearing-up their-own-fundament pontificating missives from certain usual suspects...just can't be arsed. Honestly. I did come on to this thread to contribute to the actual topic. Never mind.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: matt milton
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:12 PM

"So you'd be less likely to bother checking it out, right?"

Not sure really - sometimes bad reviews still contain little details that make me want to go and have a listen.

But it's almost academic, because in three clicks - a matter of seconds - I can be listening to someone's myspace or YouTube page. "Less likely to check something out" is pretty much meaningless: I check out almost everything. I'm in front of a computer all day and spend most of it listening to music (CDs, Spotify and myspace). For me, it's quite a challenge to AVOID hearing what someone sounds like these days.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Mavis Enderby
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:01 PM

"does anyone like your (Suibhne's) music and Jim Causley's?"

I do!

Had an excellent night watching Mawkin:Causley last year - as far removed from MOR Blandness as you like. Fantastic musicianship - and I use that word carefully in light of Suibhne's comments above. Slick doesn't cut it either - sounds too sterile. It was the energy, enjoyment, improvisation, spurring each other on, and the performer - audience - performer feedback loop that just made it get better and better.

Suibhne's music is moving in it's earthiness. He's introduced me to a range of ethnic/ancient/unusual instruments I might not otherwise encountered, and he uses them to great effect. And there's something very special about drones....



Before this gets too lovey-dovey though I still think it's out of order to call someone a tosser on a public forum!

Pete.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:58 PM

Do you know, for one very short moment there I thought we were about to have a Mudcat folk revival love-in. I came over all 1960s and started looking for the loons. Thank god that's passed!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:51 PM

MM said:

"But the key words are "and you valued my opinion". If I value someone's opinion and they tell me something's bad, I'm surely quite likely to agree with them!"

So you'd be less likely to bother checking it out, right?


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM

"Lizzie, I command you to leave this woman in the name of Jackie."

PML!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: matt milton
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:44 PM

"If I said "Crow Sister is crap" or "Crow Sister is the best thing since sliced chicken" (and you valued my opinion) which is most likely to make you seek out her music?

I do wish we would all take a bit more care with each other and with each other's work."

But the key words are "and you valued my opinion". If I value someone's opinion and they tell me something's bad, I'm surely quite likely to agree with them! I'm not sure what you're saying there: I certainly wouldn't want them to deliberately lie to me on the off-chance I might uncharacteristically like something that they don't. That would be a bit insane.

I routinely read glowing reviews of albums by journalists whose taste I know is nothing like mine: if they call something fantastic I'll know to avoid it like the plague. Equally, if they call something unlistenable, I'll probably go check it out.

I think anyone reading this thread will quickly get a good measure of SO'P's tastes and predilections and be able to contextualise them.

They can make up their own mind about Jim C's music. Because they're adult multi-cellular organisms capable of independant thought:
www.myspace.com/jimcausley


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: glueman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:44 PM

"Mudcat {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}} to everyone, and everyone is superfab!*"

Lizzie, I command you to leave this woman in the name of Jackie.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:38 PM

Fair enuff Banji!

I have lots more opinionations wriggling to get out, but as I said I'd back off this thread about ten posts ago, I probably aught to get around to doing so...

Mudcat {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}} to everyone, and everyone is superfab!*




* can you tell it's suddenly Spring in Essex this afternoon? Actual sunshine and everything! Just in time too, bluddy Spring Equinox this weekend!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: glueman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:36 PM

Tee Hee. Banjiman enjoyed Crowsie's bits.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: glueman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:34 PM

It's the downside of folk, everyone's a performer. Who will speak up for us folk consumers, the rare bird that consumeth all it meet? Our scratchy Argo and Topic won't last forever. Feed us please.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:32 PM

p.s. I wasn't calling you crap BTW. I've quite enjoyed the little bits I've heard of you ..... hope that's not too patronising for you!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:30 PM

CS, that's not what I was talking about......

It's not about the impact it has on YOU but about the impact it has on your potential audience. i.e will people listen to you to evaluate you in the first place.

A performer needs an audience..... and getting heard is the most difficult bit, however good you are.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:28 PM

Sorry Banjiman, not shouting there. I'm still smiling!
Unfortunately that last post sounded a bit more 'in yer face' than it was meant too! ;-)


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:25 PM

"If I said "Crow Sister is crap" or "Crow Sister is the best thing since sliced chicken" (and you valued my opinion) which is most likely to make you seek out her music?"

Sorry to dive back in, but as a punter I'd want to know who YOU were and whether I trusted YOUR judgement.

Very honestly if you were saying I was a crumby singer - I wouldn't care. It's not happened yet, but If I step out into the world - I know it sure as hell will! And I'm pretty damned sure I'll be able to cope with that, when it does. Because I don't want to be patted on the head or patronised in ANYTHING I do.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:21 PM

PS i do admit Rolling of the Stones is a touch pukey

Well I think it's exquisite, Gym; seriously - a mighty piece of work that brings me back to Roger Nicolson & Jack Walton's on Times and Traditions for Dulcimer (1976) which I still regard as somehow seminal. If you want pukey check out my Epiphany 2010 version currently track #1 on my Myspace Page.

Look at me!

No way hose; I go to singarounds to LISTEN first, and SING second. My ego is very much elsewhere - I'm not saying where though...


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:19 PM

"After all I rather think that whateter SO'P or I or indeed any average punter might personally feel about Jim Causley's work, however expressed in the context of an online music discussion board such as this, isn't going to alter his fortunes in the big bright world 'out there' one teensy weensy jot."

CS, a lot of your posts make a lot of sense. I think this one is completely wrong though. It is exactly through forums such as this that a performers reputation is enhanced or undermined. We live in a very small village.

If I said "Crow Sister is crap" or "Crow Sister is the best thing since sliced chicken" (and you valued my opinion) which is most likely to make you seek out her music?

I do wish we would all take a bit more care with each other and with each other's work.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:15 PM

"PS i do admit Rolling of the Stones is a touch pukey,"

Jim/Gym, you're a star!

;-)


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:06 PM

Well, Spinachy does go on at some length on Mudcat about how the revival is bollocks, the tradition is/was bollocks, the collectors are/were bollocks...it would appear that very little that many of us hold in high regard (that's kinda why we're here) gets the O'Popeye seal of approval.

Utter nonsense, Dolores, and you shame yourself by such a wilful misrepresentation of what I've posted here. I care very deeply for Folk & Traditional music, Revival or otherwise, but I'm also aware that much of what has gone down is less savoury regarding the nature of that Revival as a social phenomenon. It would be supremely hypocritical of me to promote the notion that all is somehow hunky-dorey, and that the ends justify the means. I think of Folk Music as my Country; just as England is my country, regardless of what I feel about its history, government and policies. In fact, it's the stuff you disagree with that makes you love it even more.

Mudcat is an open discussion forum, and anything I've said here has been part of open discussion. We've had some rare old threads here but few, if any, have ever resulted in or even consisted of the sort of negativity you're talking about here. Even with WAV, I might happily trounce his less savoury ideals, but I will continue to give credit where credit's due and I'll quite happily shake his hand when next our paths cross. As I said elsewhere recently, the biggest offence I ever caused around here was defending someone else's right to call me a c*nt and not have his posts deleted by nannying moderators.

And then he loftily pronounced that Jim Causley's music made him want to throw up, in a thread that was not even about the quality of anyone's music, but about whether music should be freely available online for other people to steal.

More misrepresentation, Miss Umbridge! Still, you have a point to prove, so why let a little thing like facts get in the way, eh? I have addressed this issue both below and on the thread in question, which in any case was not about stealing music but the inevitability of such lawless distribution in the folkloric context of the internet. My comments about Jim Causley's music were made with this very much in mind actually, as I disputed (without any evidence whatsoever I might add) that any fan of Jim Causley's music would ever be moved to break the law, and that Jim Causley's music was, in effect, the fulfilment of Cecil Sharp's heartfelt wish that Folk Music be used for the Social Betterment of Humanity. Whilst this is cold comfort for us feral traddies lurking in the bleak & blasted hinterlands of the post-industrial North, it's sure nice to know that all is well with the wassailing revival in Whimple!   

Perhaps it was uncharitable for me to suggest that, while theft might be a problem for Jim, Spinachy might have some trouble giving his music away.

Is that an apology I see before me, Dolores? Oh, wait a minute...

I would suggest that if Spinachy does not want people finding fault with his music, his opinions or the ways in which he expresses them, he should perhaps be a bit more considered (and considerate) when expressing his own.

You are my mentor in this respect, Miss Umbridge I can assure you; your various missives fired off in the direction of Lizzy Cornish have taught me all I know in the fine art of diplomacy.

The fact that someone has a public profile as an artist does not make them, or their music, fair game. But if you are going to dish it out, don't throw your toys out of the pram when your own music is similarly dismissed.   

Not true. The fact is that if someone does have a public profile - even if that is to upload some mobile phone footage on to YouTube - it does make their music fair game - but not them, no one said anything about them - only you've dragged this into the realms of the personal. When I go public with my music I welcome all shades of comment & criticism - even it's just on my YouTube Channel, where there is an option to delete negative comments. Of course I've never used it because I feel anyone has the right to say whatever they like by way of the casually expressed opinion, the impassioned gut reaction, or even the more considered critique. So I've no problem with that at all. However, I would question the extent to which we few merry souls on Mudcat are operating at that sort of level - as Pip indicated earlier in this thread, if someone here had slagged off his singing he wouldn't take it lightly, and quite rightly so.

In the open Mudcat forum I adopt a certain approach which is impersonal for the most part, unless provoked, and very different from the 'PM Me', or the 'Real Me'. The PM Realm is for the deepening of virtual friendships; if anyone wishes to take further issue with anything I've said in open forum and does so with a PM, then I tell them to take it back to open forum to be discussed openly. I acknowledge & respect the humanity of the people I communicate with here, many of whom I've met in the flesh, conversed with merrily on the blower or otherwise know personally (WAV included) any one of whom I would warmly welcome should ever our paths cross regardless of anything that's ever been said here. This is why I find your current position a little difficult to understand, when in the recent past our dealings both in open forum and PM-land have been upfront & friendly. But now you see fit to openly persecute me simply because I pointed out that Jim Causley's music made me feel queasy and that I feel that his MOR stylings run somewhat contrary to the spirit of Traditional Music I've known & loved all my life....


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 12:02 PM

Kept repeating myself there - a crumbily edited post!

But yes indeed, TFP Jim's contribution back there, is a most welcome one! And IMO ideally aught to suffice as a 'last word' on the matter. As such, I'll leave this thread with that.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Gym Cawsleigh
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:52 AM

From what i wrote!

PS i do admit Rolling of the Stones is a touch pukey, try my first cd from the time when i was still trying to sound like a source singer, might be more up your street.

Look at ME!!!!!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: glueman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:52 AM

"FP - is "Gym Cawsleigh" JC? How would we know?"

Oh, I think we'd know.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:51 AM

"I'm sure he wouldn't mind a cogent analysis of his style - he might indeed welcome it if it enabled him to make beneficial changes."

Should music criticism in the context of an internet music discussion board such as this, ever be intentionally directed at and intended for the benefit of artists? No I don't think so. There are the professionals that they work with in the recording industry / festival circuit and so-on, who can do that.

Indeed should ANY musical criticism be deemed for the *benefit* of an artist, other than that which they might receive from tutors, collaborators and those who patronise their work professionally, or otherwise have a particular interest in promoting or supporting their career?

I don't always agree with the stuff SO'P comes out with, but he's surely entitled to express a personal opinion of a peers work on a public music forum, however it may be expressed? After all I rather think that whateter SO'P or I or indeed any average punter might personally feel about Jim Causley's work, however expressed in the context of an online music discussion board such as this, isn't going to alter his fortunes in the big bright world 'out there' one teensy weensy jot.

In the context of other music discussions on this board, I'll confess to have made quite a few unflattering things about popular folk musicians work myself, including some of Jim's stuff. I hope that this forum doesn't start to promote restrictions on what people feel they can say about the very music we're actually here to discuss? Because I wouldn't feel comfortable with that kind of repression of free speech at all.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:47 AM

FP - is "Gym Cawsleigh" JC? How would we know?


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Working Radish, Fawning Lickspittle
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:45 AM

Suibhne - ah. I'd missed that earlier comment of RA's. Perhaps I was a bit too charitable.

On the other hand, does anyone like your music and Jim Causley's? Would you want to be championed with "almost as good as Mawkin:Causley", or "if you liked Mawkin:Causley then check out Sedayne!"

I think one reason I was fairly relaxed about the original line is that I don't think "self-regarding bollocks" is that bad, as it goes. I work on the basis that all singers are basically self-indulgent egotists (I include myself, of course) - we're all saying "hey, look at me! me, look at me!", and there's something fundamentally ridiculous about that. All singers are clowns, especially the ones who take themselves most seriously. (This is a modified form of my original theory that all performers are self-indulgent egotists; I ran that one past my wife, who said "Are you calling Michael Gambon a wanker?" There's no answer to that.)


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: the Folk Police
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:33 AM

Can I be the first to draw everyone's attention to Jim Causley's post of 9.41 AM above? People seem to be steadfastly ignoring it. In my humble view, it is one of the better contributions to this discussion yet.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 11:10 AM

The fact that someone has a public profile as an artist does not make them, or their music, fair game

Indeed it does not, particularly from someone who is a performer (of sorts) himself. Jim Causley, in common with many artists, cares a great deal what is written about him if it is inaccurate. I'm sure he wouldn't mind a cogent analysis of his style - he might indeed welcome it if it enabled him to make beneficial changes. But to state baldly that a sound clip had made you want to throw up is scarcely informative and very hurtful.

As for Jim + Mawkins doing different things, it's not the end of an era but an opportunity for the individual musicians to do, well, different things as they have always done in order to progress. It does not necessarily preclude further Mawkin + 1 gigs in the future.In the meantime, get Dave Delarre's solo EP Blue Beginnings and catch up with Jim Causleys's previous solo offerings.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: glueman
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:56 AM

Jim Causely's stuff is fine by me, to the extent I paid money (or rather the missus did as it was a Chrimbo present) for the Awkward Recruit. Not sure why the Merkins are going their separate ways but festivals will be the less for their absense. Mind you I like Ella Edmondson which as far from the edgy edge of my record collection as it's possible to imagine. Cute girl, very interesting voice. What's not to like?

I also enjoy SO'Ps ambient folk - which is possibly an insult of a duelling magnitude (though high praise indeed from Yours Gluely) - and I'm sure he'd sell loads if he was marketed as the Sound of Spring. And who doesn't want to be loved? Form a queue but no tongues.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:35 AM

Well, Spinachy does go on at some length on Mudcat about how the revival is bollocks, the tradition is/was bollocks, the collectors are/were bollocks...it would appear that very little that many of us hold in high regard (that's kinda why we're here) gets the O'Popeye seal of approval. And then he loftily pronounced that Jim Causley's music made him want to throw up, in a thread that was not even about the quality of anyone's music, but about whether music should be freely available online for other people to steal. Perhaps it was uncharitable for me to suggest that, while theft might be a problem for Jim, Spinachy might have some trouble giving his music away. I would suggest that if Spinachy does not want people finding fault with his music, his opinions or the ways in which he expresses them, he should perhaps be a bit more considered (and considerate) when expressing his own. The fact that someone has a public profile as an artist does not make them, or their music, fair game. But if you are going to dish it out, don't throw your toys out of the pram when your own music is similarly dismissed.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM

it is undeniable that he publicly dissed Jim Causley in an extremely unmusicianly and unfriendly way.

On the contrary, Diane - it is very deniable. I denied it then and I deny it now. My dissing of Jim Causley's approach was based entirely on how far such muso-slickness had pushed the pervading folk aesthetic away from its Traditional roots. It was a simple statement of fact, couched in terms of general preference and a general concern for the current state of The Revival where such MOR blandness is pretty much par for the course. I never once questioned their musicianship or their talent - heaven knows it takes a lot of both to play music like that. I feel similarly about The Corrs, Riverdance, Irish Woman, Queen, Tijuana Brass, The Cliff Adams Singers, The Carpenters, Abba etc - great musicianly talents all, but music which ultimately binds me to the Traddy cause, replete with vernacular genius, human warmth and noise-aesthetic which I find in the music of Traditional Musicians the word over but which has been expunged from mainstream Folk Music.

Note, however, that I did not direct my comments at Jim Causley personally; I simply expressed an opinion about the nature of his music in the context of a broader discussion about the imaginary impact of blogging on actual CD sales and the broader cultural considerations of mainstream commercial & concert Folk Music. That Joan reacted with what amounts to a barrage of personal abuse is therefore, I feel, entirely unjustified whatever her personal feelings about my work might be. We come to Mudcat as equals, to discuss our concerns and express our opinions - not to be roundly abused for so doing - and certainly not by those with the far-reaching influence of Joan Crump.


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 09:50 AM

Ah, I understand you now Borchester,


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: GUEST,Gym Cawsleigh
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 09:41 AM

I agree, lets just remember why we're all drawn to this website in the first place; our shared love of folk/trad/roots/acoustic music!

I've never been a fan of the word 'Revival', "folk" (or just the pop music of it's time) has never died. It's hidden away quite sucessfully during times when it wasn't so trendy or collectors and folklorists were shining a light upon it.

I know from experience that it carries on quite happily in it's own little way hidden in remote rural pubs and back rooms, best place for it if you ask me! But incase you think me a hypocrite for earning money from performing it, i'd just like to point out that it's a nasty habit started by wandering minstrels in the middle ages and so i'm simply continuing that particular tradition!

(that and i'm too dumb to do anything else, i was a dreadful waiter!)

PS i can't take any credit for reviving the Whimple Wassail, the wonderful Whimple History Society are to blame for that crime long before i got involved. The thing with tradition is, if it dies, it dies. It has done elsewhere and this little island is no different. But my personal opinion is that it will continue to evolve and flourish. It may not be recognisable as we currently know it, but that is the point of evolution!


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Subject: RE: New 'Revival' of Folk Music in England.
From: matt milton
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 09:34 AM

Jim Causley is brilliant

Jim Causley is rubbish

Jim Causley has a beautiful voice

Jim Causley can't sing for toffee

Jim Causley is the greatest singer of his generation

Jim Causley is a pretty good folk singer

Are we really to suppose that, were Mr Causley to read the above list, he would be alternately whooping with joy/bursting into tears based upon how convincing he found the truth-content of each individual statement in the series above?

Of course not.

S'OP didn't publicly diss Jim Causley. He publicly dissed Jim Causley's music. (And since when was dissing someone's music beyond the pale?)

I disagree that he did it in unmusicianly way; I'd say on a scale of 0-musicianly it was probably a 6.5.

I would agree that it could be construed as "unfriendly' - that's in the nature of disagreeable cricitism.

But friendship has nothing to do with it. That's why music critics generally don't review albums by their friends.


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