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BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........

MGM·Lion 28 Nov 09 - 12:46 AM
Little Hawk 28 Nov 09 - 12:38 AM
GUEST,999 28 Nov 09 - 12:19 AM
MGM·Lion 28 Nov 09 - 12:09 AM
GUEST,999 27 Nov 09 - 11:57 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Nov 09 - 11:52 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Nov 09 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,999 27 Nov 09 - 11:51 PM
MGM·Lion 27 Nov 09 - 11:40 PM
Rowan 27 Nov 09 - 11:30 PM
GUEST,999 27 Nov 09 - 11:27 PM
Joe Offer 27 Nov 09 - 11:08 PM
Little Hawk 27 Nov 09 - 05:26 PM
GUEST,beachcomber 27 Nov 09 - 04:12 PM
Ed T 27 Nov 09 - 03:20 PM
Joe Offer 27 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,beachcomber 27 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM
Little Hawk 27 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Nov 09 - 02:18 PM
Ed T 27 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 27 Nov 09 - 01:52 PM
Little Hawk 27 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM
Desert Dancer 27 Nov 09 - 12:01 PM
Mysha 27 Nov 09 - 11:26 AM
Crow Sister (off with the fairies) 27 Nov 09 - 07:01 AM
HuwG 27 Nov 09 - 06:45 AM
Bryn Pugh 27 Nov 09 - 06:37 AM
GUEST,CrazyEddie 27 Nov 09 - 03:04 AM
MGM·Lion 27 Nov 09 - 02:00 AM
Don Firth 27 Nov 09 - 01:05 AM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 11:56 PM
GUEST 26 Nov 09 - 11:53 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 11:49 PM
GUEST,999 26 Nov 09 - 11:41 PM
Rapparee 26 Nov 09 - 11:24 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 11:11 PM
GUEST,999 26 Nov 09 - 11:04 PM
Rapparee 26 Nov 09 - 10:56 PM
CLETUS HARDDINGER 26 Nov 09 - 10:43 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 10:26 PM
Ed T 26 Nov 09 - 10:25 PM
MGM·Lion 26 Nov 09 - 10:21 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 10:16 PM
GUEST,999 26 Nov 09 - 10:14 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 10:11 PM
Little Hawk 26 Nov 09 - 09:56 PM
Ron Davies 26 Nov 09 - 09:39 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Nov 09 - 08:09 PM
Little Hawk 26 Nov 09 - 06:14 PM
Joe Offer 26 Nov 09 - 05:13 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:46 AM

Eh? ;~)§


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:38 AM

Birdie num-nums?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:19 AM

Nun. Know problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:09 AM

Yes, 'STILL' — what's the problem?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:57 PM

STILL?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:52 PM

'I screwed up. It's flaucci...'

Still a variant spelling tho, 999.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:51 PM

Talking of lexicographers [drift alert!!! but it is that sort of thread anyhow, isn't it?]:

Many people know the tale of Samuel Johnson, told by a woman that he smelt, replying 'No, madam; you smell, I stink!'.

But the story is, I think, less well known, of Noah Webster caught by his wife in flagrante with a female servant: 'Why, Noah,' she is said to have exclaimed, 'I am surprised!'; to which his alleged rejoinder was, 'No, my dear, it is we who are surprised. You are astounded.'


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:51 PM

I screwed up. It's flaucci.......


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:40 PM

Thank you, Guest. We live & learn. From the sources you cite [Oxford University & Noah Webster's successors], it would appear perhaps to be one of those UK/US variants. My own source was Chambers Dictionary.

There seem also to be two different possible pronunciations of the -cc- at end of first syllable — some say 'flocky...' & some 'floxy...' — followed indeed by either 'nocky...' or 'nowky...' [this bit presumably depending on whether one is thinking the '... nocci...' or the '...nauci...' version - in the first of which instances, will it be '...nocky...' or '...noxy...' [see above re 'floc...'].

You say above there are 2 spellings — but you seem to have intro'd another variant spelling by starting your 2nd version 'flauci...' instead of 'flocci' - which will of course gr8ly modify my above observations, to an extent that I cannot at present bear to contemplate...

It is, of course, a word constantly on all our lips, so it is important these vital questions be swiftly resolved!...


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Rowan
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:30 PM

He didn't know he was stealing my One True Love.

Joe, do I infer, correctly, that he ended his sentences with a proposition?

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:27 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MtheGM
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:00 AM

999 - in interests of accuracy: 'floccinaucinihil...' actually."

Nope. There are two spellings, fyi.

Floccinocci.... and flaucinauci....

You'll find the former in Webster's Third International and the latter in the OED.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:08 PM

Beyond redemption? Probably so - but hey, I'm proud of it. Can't fault the manager too much, though. He didn't know he was stealing my One True Love. And besides that, he gave me a pay raise that earned me $10,000 extra a year for twenty years.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 05:26 PM

You a lot of nerve have to my use of English question, beachcomber. Vexed I am. Revenge myself upon you I will. ;-)

(the above is written in Yodese dialect)


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 04:12 PM

Huh ! he probably reckoned that you were beyond redemption Joe, as I do.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:20 PM

A fovvourite delaying reply of John Cleese was...."not as such"


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:56 PM

Hy, I wanna pick a fight with those who wanna pick a fight with me about ending sentences with prepositions. I had a manager who sent back a report I wrote, criticizing my positioning of prepositions. I sent him back three pages of Fowler's Modern English Usage, justifying myself.
I guess it worked. He never bothered me about my grammar after that.

He married the woman who was the Love of My Life, but that's another story....

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM

Little Hawk, I cannot believe that you USED A PREPOSITION TO END A SENTENCE WITH ??? What is happening to Mudcat at all, at all ?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:31 PM

Or - "That's an interesting comment....

"That's a good question....

"I'm glad you asked me that....

(the last 2 are particularly beloved of politicians) LOL! What they really meant was:

"That comment you just made sucks! It proves what a jerk you are."

"You bastard! Why'd you ask me that question? Wait while I figure out how to maneuver my way around it...."

"I wish you hadn't asked me that! Now observe as I avoid giving you a real answer."


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:18 PM

In a similar vein- 'Your point is well-taken'. Another delaying tactic.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ed T
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM

If in a argument/discussion, if they use a word you don't know....simply reply with "that's exactly my point"....it should give you a couple of minutes to plan a course, while they try to figure it out.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:52 PM

The fact of the matter is....


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:16 PM

Well, I launched the thread mainly for fun, Crow Sister, a bit of satire and irony, that sort of thing. It was an ongoing spat between 2 other people on a thread which I was idly observing which prompted me to launch it. You know, the kind of debate that arises here where certain individuals do their utmost to bury each other under an avalanche of ever-more snide and pompous prose, utilizing devastating expressions like "ex cathedra" or "I make it a point never to fight a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent", etc....

It gets funny to watch it after awhile, so I thought I'd do a thread about it.

It is a discipline that can be honed to a fine art with enough practice, and when one attains the highest levels one becomes a Swami and receives a special sanskrit name from the Masters such as: Swami Krapilamastikrapilistikananda

It means: "bliss through character assassination"


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 12:01 PM

Only those without hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia can make use of such a term as floccinaucinihilipilification, and in polite company, in order to avoid the faux pas of disquieting someone with such a disorder, one should avoid such usage.

Of course, in a Mudcat argument, all bets are off.

~ Becky & astro in Tucson


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Mysha
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 11:26 AM

But what about the slings and arrows? Does that mean the protagonist from Whiskey in the Jar is called "Outrageous Fortune"?

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 07:01 AM

Not sure what recent spat prompted the OP (I'm assuming there was one based on other comments), but personally I take no issue with others using terms or phrases I don't necessarily already know, I just look 'em up & learn something in the process.

Plus lots of words or terms are very specific in meaning, which inevitably means it would take a whole load of other words, to make exactly the same point.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: HuwG
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:45 AM

A few other fallacies to produce when in dispute:

Argument from authority A statement is true because X, an authority in that area, says so. The authority must nevertheless produce proof that the statement is true. Of course this doesn't work if the argument is "the statement is true, because this work by X displays the proof." And of course, taken to literal extremes, one cannot take anything for granted; even that one exists. Who says so?

Appeal to sentiment 99 percent of our sample believe in X. They may believe in X, but that's rather that they wish to believe in X.

Argumentum ad ignoriantiam A statement is true because no evidence exists to contradict it. Perhaps there is not; but nothing contradicts the existence of dragons, UFOs etc.

Petitio principii circular argument; the premises are true only if the conclusion is true.

Fallacious composition (or "undistributed middle term").

Socrates is a man.
All men are mortal.
Therefore, Socrates is mortal.

Impeccable! But:

O'Brien is an Irishman.
I know some Irishmen who are belligerent drunkards.
Therefore, I wouldn't trust O'Brien near a bottle.

fails, because not all Irishmen are as described.

Fallacious division the opposite of fallacious composition; the assumption that what is true of the whole must be true of the constituents.

Joe is an American
The United States of America is a wealthy country.
Let's mug him!

Joe may be wealthy, or a down-and-out.

Ignorantio elenchi begging the question; proving a conclusion irrelevant to the discussion. I can prove that Football club A is wealthier than Football club in B, but I have not proved that A is better than B in terms of results or statistics.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 06:37 AM

In faecam aeternam summus : solii profundii variat.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 03:04 AM

Please do not confuse ex-cathedra, with ex-hathedra, which is, of course, talking through your hat...


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 02:00 AM

999 - in interests of accuracy: 'floccinaucinihil...' actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:05 AM

Expert.

From two Latin words: "Ex," meaning "has-been" and "spurt" being "a little drip under pressure."

You're welcome.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:56 PM

But they know if you're an anonymous "Guest".


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:53 PM

On the internet, no one knows you're the Pope.
    Yeah, but I'm quite sure you're a Unitarian, so the pope you ain't. Your cookie needs reset, Dan.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:49 PM

Good recovery.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:41 PM

Jus' testin' ya, Ron, jus' testin'.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:24 PM

I'm very good at proof reading: 86 proof, 151 proof, 80 proof....


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:11 PM

Bingo, 999.   That's "gluteus maximus".   Proofreading pays--certainly in a posting about being accurate.   Physician, heal....


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:04 PM

Too true, Rapaire. Treat not the language of unintentional obscurity with floccinoccinihilipilification lest it cometh back to bite one's gluteus minimus, medius or maximas.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:56 PM

Oh, go ahead and use these phrases any way you want. Nihil obstat, but you might look like a damned fool when you use them incorrectly.

Imprimatur!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: CLETUS HARDDINGER
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:43 PM

I dunno bout thet chair bizness an all. I seen sum uv them cathedras an all thay got iz them pews xsept for a playse whair thet guy with tha lil smokin bucket sets wen he aint bizzy with the bucket uv smoke or throwin water on tha folks inna them pews.

But I tel ya this an that iz that I do like that idea of addin hominy. I luv hominy and I aint jus talkin bout grits but also the hominy too. I like it both but I like the yeller best speshully like my mama uze ta make it whair sheed fry the hominy in the skillet after sheed fried up a buncha Spam. Now thatz reel eetin!

And gnu, idoan theenk the pope hazta piss in no woods or nuthin cuz I seen thet fine place heez got in Ittley an Ide reckun thair muzt be a bathroom or two in thair sumwhairs.


CLETUS


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:26 PM

Good old verb sap.   Actually I've never heard it called that. That's classic--(no pun intended--perish the thought).


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ed T
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:25 PM

Ex cathedra - From the chair. With authority (without argumentation)

From a good latin source:http://www.inrebus.com/latinphrases_e.php


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:21 PM

Ron — By 'a word to the wise' I take it you mean verb sap; or, indeed, verbum sapienti sap est?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:16 PM

Or it means you want to start a thread, and it seems a handy springboard.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:14 PM

"'ex cathedra' - it means..........."

If you need to ask in public it means you don't know how to use Mr Google.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:11 PM

What I like about "bon mot" is that the plural is "bons mots", if I recall correctly.   Very useful--and again, essential to get right.

If I have in fact done so. And if not, something tells me it's possible I will be corrected--and not have to wait very long.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:56 PM

Thanks, Ron! Those little details are absolutely vital. Tremendous loss of face can occur when one doesn't get them right.

I'm surprised Amos hasn't shown up. He's awfully good at this sort of thing, and it was he who really got me accustomed to the expression "bon mot". I'd seen it before here and there, but I hadn't realized just how useful it was until Amos came along.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 09:39 PM

A word to the wise: make sure it's "non sequitur", not "non sequitor".   Or it's possible your opponent will correct you. You definitely lose points.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 08:09 PM

Top of the page in the Oxford English Dictionary-

When looking up a word in the Oxford English Dictionary, my eye often is caught by the word at the top of the page; usually something I have never heard, and forget soon afterward.

Opening in the A's and turning a few pages:
aggravidization
aggregable
agrass
agraunte
aimfully
alighten
allantois
allanturic
allodial

and by the time one gets to Z....


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 06:14 PM

Omigod, Q! I LOVE those other handy "ex" expressions you listed. It is time to bury our despised debating opponents under a flood of arcane Latin catchphrases, I say. William F. Buckley Jr. was really good at that sort of thing, and he obviously relished doing it to the utmost. You could see the grim glee dancing in his eyes as he dropped another devastating bon mot.

(Note: "bon mot" is another good one, as are many French phrases. Learn it now, and use it frequently.)

If we could get together a panel of really skilled armchair intelligentsia here to debate contentious matters with one another daily on streaming video, I bet it would attract a large internet audience, and we could make people pay $5 by Paypal before logging in. Think about this as a way of raising Mudcat money and improving the site.

The debate show could be called "Slings and Arrows".


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Subject: RE: BS: 'ex cathedra' - it means...........
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 05:13 PM

I'm having a great time imagining the "armchair intelligentsia" pontificating ex cathedra.

As for the Pope pontificating, there's only one undisputed occasion when a pope spoke "ex cathedra" since the doctrine of infallibility was decreed in the 1870s. There are disputes about two other instances, including the time when John Paul II stated the Church has no authority to ordain women as priests.

-Joe-


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